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#1 dachopper

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:10 AM

Hello all, I am new to this forum. I have recenty acquired a T750 and am yet to attempt to put the spinnaker up. I was wondering of the other t750 or perhapse t700 owners out there have some advise about the assym spinnaker. Stuff i am interested in is :

what wind speed would you attempt to put one up with only 3 people on board
what wind speeds would you use the fractional vs masthead kite? We usually get either 12-14, or 18-23 kt breezes.
How hairy can it get and des it " round up" or can you generally steer downwind and ride the gust as it hits for speed
Are there any tricks to dousing,( im thinking ease downwind, ease the tac out a bit then drop the head with clew in hand?)
Also any advice on the positioning of the pole ( allways full extension? and straight out the front or eased off if downwind? or do you poke it into wind aswell?)

Thanks Nick

#2 Heaven can wait

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:52 AM

Where for out there Nick???

What Country are sailing in/from???

Edited by Heaven can wait, 24 August 2007 - 11:52 AM.


#3 The Winner

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 12:26 PM

Hello all, I am new to this forum. I have recenty acquired a T750 and am yet to attempt to put the spinnaker up. I was wondering of the other t750 or perhapse t700 owners out there have some advise about the assym spinnaker. Stuff i am interested in is :

what wind speed would you attempt to put one up with only 3 people on board
what wind speeds would you use the fractional vs masthead kite? We usually get either 12-14, or 18-23 kt breezes.
How hairy can it get and des it " round up" or can you generally steer downwind and ride the gust as it hits for speed
Are there any tricks to dousing,( im thinking ease downwind, ease the tac out a bit then drop the head with clew in hand?)
Also any advice on the positioning of the pole ( allways full extension? and straight out the front or eased off if downwind? or do you poke it into wind aswell?)

Thanks Nick


Where is the boat located?

#4 dachopper

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:08 PM

the boat ... is located down under in perth, Western Australia have some pics i will load

#5 dachopper

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:10 PM

I am addicted to it allready.... was reaching at 13 kts in about 15 kts breeze with a number 3 and main only!, flat water

#6 The Winner

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:32 PM

the boat ... is located down under in perth, Western Australia have some pics i will load


Load em up

#7 mezaire

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:43 PM

Not having a go or anything but sounds like you need someone with a bit of sportsboat experience to come for a sail.

Jump on the West Australian Sailing thread and ask around or send me a message and I'm sure we'll find someone (I'm in Perth) to come out and show you the ropes!!

Ben

#8 The Winner

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 02:08 PM

So which one did you buy?

#9 Heaven can wait

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 02:34 PM

Not having a go or anything but sounds like you need someone with a bit of sportsboat experience to come for a sail.

Jump on the West Australian Sailing thread and ask around or send me a message and I'm sure we'll find someone (I'm in Perth) to come out and show you the ropes!!

Ben



Is this the T750 gbm, was talking about Mezaire or is it his boat??

Dachopper, gbm is in Perth and Cutter lurks here on occasion, as well as Jaybee and Jaymack who all have exclusive T750 experience having owned previously or continue to own a T750.

#10 dachopper

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 03:21 PM

[it is the ex "c'est la vie"

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#11 The Winner

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 04:03 PM

Whats up with the racks, first time that i have seen one like that.

#12 Speedwatch

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:09 PM

Me too - what the fuck is this - wings an a T750?!? Not that the boat would not benefit from them but the first time for me that I see wings on a Tboat too. Will crew tomorrow at the Berlin T750 and with only 4 on board this wings would help to keep her flat in 10-15 kts true ...

#13 The Winner

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:31 PM

Me too - what the fuck is this - wings an a T750?!? Not that the boat would not benefit from them but the first time for me that I see wings on a Tboat too. Will crew tomorrow at the Berlin T750 and with only 4 on board this wings would help to keep her flat in 10-15 kts true ...



Shit if your going to go that route put some traps on the bitch and take the bulb weight down to say 250 kg and hang it out there baby, just dont flip the bloody thing

#14 dachopper

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:03 PM

yeah... and with only 3 people, and 1 being a lightweight, they actually help quite a bit. PS the one pictured has the 2.5 metre beam where as the origional design was for a 3 metre beam hence .... the wings are comfy as and poke out a little further than 3 metres

#15 Flatbag

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:46 AM

[it is the ex "c'est la vie"


Wings = Brakes! That boat was an absolute rocketship before they put the Brakes on it. Do yourself a favour and rip em off.

Attached File  PICT3324_Cest_la_vie_1.jpg   72.81K   101 downloads

#16 dachopper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 04:42 AM

Tell me how a wings could possibly slow a boat down from a technical point of view?... as you can see from the picture, having 5 heavy people on the boat is a bit different to having 3. When we origionally got the boat the wings were off and we have since tried it with them off and on and it is way "faster" and more comfortable with them on,because the boat does get overpowered as easily in the gusts. The only way it slows the boat down is touching the wave creasts when really powered up, we have fixed that by elevating the tramp on foam bits.... but if you wanted to you can just lift one up when you tack. for way more comfort and a greater crew weight effectiveness they are great.

also when we got the boat for some reason the rigging was set with almost 1.2 metres of rake...we've taken that out and redone the rigging back to about 50cm with around 10cm prebend and less tension and found the sails sit a lot better. Hopefully one day we will get to go against some of the 7's or 750 from RPYC or around the place to see if they settings are good or not, although I noticed two of the sevens there setup completely different. One with prebend lika a bannana and the other more like ours..

#17 Speed

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 04:59 AM

Dachopper pm Cutter he is the one to talk to about the T750. ;) ;)

#18 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 09:02 AM

Dachopper you were wondering about taking the wings off? DO IT!

Not sure it worked all that well on mustard but if you look at the Lyons 8 that did Airlie with its new wings, it was quicker with the last owner and NO wings!

I can lend you these when julian is finished with em! :lol:

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#19 soliverg

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 09:37 AM

Come and sail at South of Perth we have most of the sport boats here, ie t750's sports 8, t7's, r8, bull 7000, elliott7.5 and plenty of hardstanding (when the finnish the renovations in a month or so)
Cheers

#20 dachopper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:23 PM

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HQkSxnFFDz4

check it out, called "T750 Perth WA Sports boat"

taken in around 10 kts early August on the Swan

#21 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:33 PM

i see the crew is a sports vers too DC1 :lol:

most 750 are winged to around 3.4 but just in a 'integrated' way, the wings are not as apparent

some wide ones are one piece boats ( Heart of Gold, and Euro boats), others have clip-on sponsons,

and some are 2.5mtr wide TY legal, or road rules legal, CLV was a nsw tya compliant width

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 25 August 2007 - 01:42 PM.


#22 dachopper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:35 PM

Yeah .... I'm unsure about joining a yacht club because I thought it would be quite costly.... what is it like to be in the hardstand area all up including joining expenses and race costs, and how oftern and when do the other boats race?
Was thinking about rockingham as its prices are good plus they have a lot more flat water with steadier, stronger breezes.

RE: the wings
I think, maybe the thing the other people who have tried the wings and think they slow the boat down haven't done, is lift them up when they are not sitting on them.... then the boat can heel as much as you like without the wings digging into the water and slowing the boat down at all. If I pull them off ( which takes about 5 minutes as they are hinged on where the foot pole was ) I gett a sore bum and have to keep easing the sheets to avoid getting blown right over and as a result we slowdown? I understand everyone else saw the difference that they made and thinks it now goes slower but the rig was tuned way...way out when we got it so I think that was what slowed it down and not the wings. If they didn't work skiffs' wouldn't use them, also i measured the beam and they extend it from 2.5 to 3.5 metres.

#23 Flatbag

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:35 PM

Tell me how a wings could possibly slow a boat down from a technical point of view?... as you can see from the picture, having 5 heavy people on the boat is a bit different to having 3. When we origionally got the boat the wings were off and we have since tried it with them off and on and it is way "faster" and more comfortable with them on,because the boat does get overpowered as easily in the gusts. The only way it slows the boat down is touching the wave creasts when really powered up, we have fixed that by elevating the tramp on foam bits.... but if you wanted to you can just lift one up when you tack. for way more comfort and a greater crew weight effectiveness they are great.

also when we got the boat for some reason the rigging was set with almost 1.2 metres of rake...we've taken that out and redone the rigging back to about 50cm with around 10cm prebend and less tension and found the sails sit a lot better. Hopefully one day we will get to go against some of the 7's or 750 from RPYC or around the place to see if they settings are good or not, although I noticed two of the sevens there setup completely different. One with prebend lika a bannana and the other more like ours..


I raced in the same division as CLV aka The Yellow Peril for a few seasons at Sandringham when they raced it with 5 crew. It was significantly faster then than when they later fitted the wings and tried to race it with 4 crew. Race results are available on the SYC site going back some time and boat for boat comparisons are readily available. Or you could ask anyone who raced against it at SYC. One of the key crew had made his views well known that it wasn't going to work.... sadly, he was proved right :(

#24 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:34 PM

The boat was designed for a certain weight, ie huge rocker, take the weight off and you have a banana sitting on the water instead of how it was designed to sit in the water. Why have wings if you lean the boat, the advantage goes with every deg you lean it over?

But i could be out of the ball park as well!

#25 Heaven can wait

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:42 PM

Mustard Cutter has clip on "Wings" also. It's also got 2 Bulbs, 1 x 300kg and 1 x 400kg.

The Boat goes better with the 400kg bulb according to Cutter.

#26 dachopper

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:52 PM

... understand that the more the boat leans the less effective the wings are.... but when your comparing 2.5 meter beam to 3.5 meter beam, from the centre of the boat atleast, ( 1.25 vs 1.75 metre fulcrum... 40% more righting moment for the weight that is out there ( for the crews effect)) initially, which means initially i can hold more sail up and go faster and if we are stuck for crew and want to use only 3 people... then like you said... what you should compare is 3 people with no wings and less righting moment vs 3 people with wings.... instead of 3 people and wings vs a full crew of 5 people ~ nearly 400kg's worth & no wings

#27 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:35 PM

Mustard Cutter has clip on "Wings" also. It's also got 2 Bulbs, 1 x 300kg and 1 x 400kg.

The Boat goes better with the 400kg bulb according to Cutter.

remember the bulb weight and wings are not mutually excl. you can have more in both areas (you don't have to go smaller bulb), CLV of course would have the full design weight bulb.

also mentioned that the wide lighter 'mode' was not fully given a chance so a much propagated assumption

I have seen Mustard Cutter ahead of t-8 racers on the last beat of 20knt plus W/L's at hammo, on the days she wasn't in front she was a few mtrs down, this went on for a week

she was in 'Wide mode' (non-TY) ...... not slow by any means
.

#28 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:49 PM

dc1

a bit here about your t750 Perth stablemates

Insite ( go below me) and Turnham Green,

you have a very well built and finished boat by ALL reports, thanks to Pierre and Co., maybe the best?
.

#29 gbm

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 12:24 AM

Congrats Nick on getting a T750.

They are great and they do get up and go.

With regards to the wings / no wings and 3 vs 5 crew,


i see the crew is a sports vers too DC1 :lol:

most 750 are winged to around 3.4 but just in a 'integrated' way, the wings are not as apparent

some wide ones are one piece boats ( Heart of Gold, and Euro boats), others have clip-on sponsons,

and some are 2.5mtr wide TY legal, or road rules legal, CLV was a nsw tya compliant width



The T750 is designed at 3.0m NOT 3.4. the design has options for 2.5 with "clip on" flairs. basically they are built the same as the 3m versions and then cut down to 2.5 and the portions cut down used as the clip on flairs.

There is quite a bit of confusion out there on this. I have the designs and they are very clear (which is unusual for Steve!)

Someone above mentioned that they have been designed for 400Kg of crew weight. this is correct and sail with as many or as few as you need to get close to that!!

we have found that the boat goes much better with close to the 400kg than if we sail with 3 crew (of say a total of 240kg)

The deck space is more than enought to sail with 6 if you have a few light weights.

Any way Nick - I have PM'ed you so give me a call and I will be more than happy to help you out. We sail at South Perth every 2nd weekend during winter and every saturday (well almost!!) during the summer season.

Also to answer your question re kites - masthead or fractional. the best way to answer this is by saying the two T750's here only have masthead kites.

when it blows put up the "small" masthead kite and run deeper!

Any help you need drop me a line

Cheers

GBM

#30 julian

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:43 AM

Dachopper you were wondering about taking the wings off? DO IT!

Not sure it worked all that well on mustard but if you look at the Lyons 8 that did Airlie with its new wings, it was quicker with the last owner and NO wings!

I can lend you these when julian is finished with em! :lol:


Moulds are in the builders hands! You can keep these 2 littlecutters, TS. We should have a new Charley on the water by the end of Sept! Having wings on this boat makes all the fleet praying for lighter winds! I think you should get used to them! Otherwise, you have a race with more than about 14kn, and you come in very wet, and last!
Think that you sailed very well at Airlie Beach, TS. I bet that when the wind blew up, Avid would be telling all the crew all about wings!

#31 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:24 AM

Moulds are in the builders hands! You can keep these 2 littlecutters, TS. We should have a new Charley on the water by the end of Sept! Having wings on this boat makes all the fleet praying for lighter winds! I think you should get used to them! Otherwise, you have a race with more than about 14kn, and you come in very wet, and last!
Think that you sailed very well at Airlie Beach, TS. I bet that when the wind blew up, Avid would be telling all the crew all about wings!



Mmmmm! This wont come back to haunt you eh?

Bring on the Carbon IPS! :lol:

#32 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:52 AM

....

With regards to the wings / no wings and 3 vs 5 crew,
The T750 is designed at 3.0m NOT 3.4. the design has options for 2.5 with "clip on" flairs. basically they are built the same as the 3m versions and then cut down to 2.5 and the portions cut down used as the clip on flairs.

There is quite a bit of confusion out there on this. I have the designs and they are very clear (which is unusual for Steve!)

Someone above mentioned that they have been designed for 400Kg of crew weight. this is correct and sail with as many or as few as you need to get close to that!!



hey GBM, i have no doubt the later built (or wider) 750 designs had the option to slice off, or not in many boats cases, Heart of Gold, some Euro boats,
(maybe NZ too? interesting to know as some of these were quite early boats)

but (the '90's) Mustard Cutter / Ce la Vie were definitely built AT 2.5 designed to 2.5mtr road legal, or the old nsw tya spec were definite not wider, till MC's 3.4mtr clip-ons were added, I'm not saying it isn't the same plan narrowed !

Ce la Vie and Mustard Cutter initially 2.5m, and Jayp's U.S. boat i think.

3.4mtr Cutter wide spec

Current config is 450kg bulb and wings taking beam to 3.4m. wings are extensions off flair in the hull. You could call it upwind configuration, when we have it cooking we go upwind with Vivace and stealthy. ease the sheets and there gooone.

With the 300 kg bulb we struggled to get the boat upwind in a rough seaway and we diddn't give it a chance to work out, it did one hammo regatta and then we took it off to go race CBH in the nats.


Edited by GybeSetŪ, 26 August 2007 - 11:56 AM.


#33 Cutter

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 10:51 PM

There is a couple of differences, when you look at mustard cutter its 2.5m side decks are wider by about 150mm compared to ce la vie, Mustard Cutter hull sides are more slab sided than Ce La Vie. Also The cutters keel is further aft in the boat with the front of the keel case lining up with the cabin bulkhead, Cie la Vie is 25mm through that bulkhead

#34 bfp

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:06 PM

Hey Cutter, would you sail with the wings or without the wings, if you just wanted to go faster?

Reading some of the comments above, I can't understand why the boats would be slower with more righting moment, but I am interested to know what you think, given your experience on these boats.

#35 Cutter

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 04:07 AM

Hey Cutter, would you sail with the wings or without the wings, if you just wanted to go faster?

Reading some of the comments above, I can't understand why the boats would be slower with more righting moment, but I am interested to know what you think, given your experience on these boats.


No question, wings on everytime, much more comfy to sit on and yes its miles faster

#36 dachopper

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 08:15 AM

As far as the early 90's boats being designed to be 2.5 metres to be road registerable..... you can clearly see when the beam hits 2.5 metres ( near the bulkhead), the curve on the top of the deck stops and goes straight back at 2.5 metres, while the shape of the hull continues to open out to around 2.3 metres at the fattest. So while they were maybe designed for it... the hull shape didn't look like it changed... just the beam or basically the side deck benck is narrower and cutoff. but the wings poke it out way further.

Was also thinking of making a bit of a tacking jjig for the wings.... a line going form one of the wings ( front middile) to the top corner of companion way - floor, accross the bottom, back to the top through pulleys and to the other side. Then have rope in there of a certain length so that when you sit or push one side down... the other side will lift up 30-50 degrees so it can't contact the water ever, also allowing easier access to the spinnaker sheet ie, now it won't rub on the wing frame.

what do you think?

#37 gbm

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:21 AM

The idea of foldable wings to lift the leward one up has been tried and did work very well on a few classes in the past. The 18's used this quite a few years ago (for some reason they moved away from it recently).

It is a good idea though.

It may have some impact on the sheeting angle for the kite but the change should be stuff all.

The other thing to consider is having the tacking pully higher than the top to the companion way. It isn't very high. You could consider an entry exit blocks on each side of the rig (just below the first spreader) that way it is in an area which is well supported. The only additional weight on the rig would be the weight of the leward wing as the windward wing and crew weight would be supported by the windward deck.

if you want drop me a line and I will help with the questions - maybe over a beer...

Cheers

GBM

#38 dachopper

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 11:18 AM

The idea of foldable wings to lift the leward one up has been tried and did work very well on a few classes in the past. The 18's used this quite a few years ago (for some reason they moved away from it recently).

It is a good idea though.

It may have some impact on the sheeting angle for the kite but the change should be stuff all.

The other thing to consider is having the tacking pully higher than the top to the companion way. It isn't very high. You could consider an entry exit blocks on each side of the rig (just below the first spreader) that way it is in an area which is well supported. The only additional weight on the rig would be the weight of the leward wing as the windward wing and crew weight would be supported by the windward deck.

if you want drop me a line and I will help with the questions - maybe over a beer...

Cheers

GBM


Yeah after thinking about it a bit more.... Im starting to think maybe a block of foam that "dangles" off a small rope in the centre of the wing frame, so that post tacking you could prop it up manually by moving the foam in there.. might be a bit more user friendly....

#39 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 08:26 PM

No question, wings on everytime, much more comfy to sit on and yes its miles faster


read up, Pilgrims

#40 Flatbag

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:42 PM

read up, Pilgrims


Theory may suggest a big improvement should be expected with wings but actual observation of and results for the boat in question before and after the change would strongly suggest otherwise in this case. May be down to technique or other factors but the clock doesn't lie.

#41 dachopper

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:01 AM

Theory may suggest a big improvement should be expected with wings but actual observation of and results for the boat in question before and after the change would strongly suggest otherwise in this case. May be down to technique or other factors but the clock doesn't lie.


Didn't the crew weight change after the wings were put on 5 to 4 people? so it's not a valid observation! If they continued with the same experienced and number of crew then fair enough.... but given others who have used them aswell as myself think they are faster... I think it's a bit of rubbish

#42 the sa

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:05 AM

Hey, it is really easy to sort this out, come and race at SoPYC where there are 2 of them already and I am sure it wont take too long to figure out what is fast.

All of this tech talk is way too serious for a true sportsboat sailor. Just get on, sit down, hang on and shut up.

#43 dachopper

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:45 AM

would a skiff go faster if it had a canting bulb keel and no tramp or trapeeze?

#44 Flatbag

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:29 AM

Didn't the crew weight change after the wings were put on 5 to 4 people? so it's not a valid observation! If they continued with the same experienced and number of crew then fair enough.... but given others who have used them aswell as myself think they are faster... I think it's a bit of rubbish


I can't write this any slower for you. The fact is the boat was slower around the track after the wings went on. Indisputable Fact. Yes, they sailed with 4 instead of 5 after the mods and quite obviously that changed the weight distribution and the crew dynamics but the boat was s l o w e r. The only thing fast about it after the mods was the speed with which it was put on the market. It was a great boat, certainly the best built T750 there has ever been and it could probably be made fast again. I hope you can figure it out and get your boat back to its earlier pace - its a kick-arse machine!

#45 droughtau

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 06:48 AM

Chopper why dont u talk to the original owner who knew how to sail CLV fastest his name is Pierre Gal and his number is 0266511286 which is in coffs harbour + 2hrs for U in the west

#46 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 07:20 AM

Im with you flat bag, they are yet to be proven with wings, sure the theory of them should be quicker on the T750 and the lyons 8 but as of yet have not proved to be.

The offer is still there for the "Winged Shitter compliance tools"! :lol:

#47 gbm

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 07:21 AM

Chopper why dont u talk to the original owner who knew how to sail CLV fastest his name is Pierre Gal and his number is 0266511286 which is in coffs harbour + 2hrs for U in the west

OR call / reply to one of the three Anarchists (who are in Perth) who have PM'ed you to give advise and help you out. and come and sail against them to see what the difference is between a T750 with or without the wings!

Edited by gbm, 28 August 2007 - 07:23 AM.


#48 Flatbag

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 07:28 AM

Piccie time...

Like I said; great boat - hope you get it sorted!
Photo credits: 2 x Teri Dodds and 2 from the archives somewhere...

Attached File  100_0010.JPG   88.82K   46 downloadsAttached File  C_est_La_Vie_dw.jpg   56.45K   49 downloads
Attached File  100_0012.JPG   139.92K   39 downloadsAttached File  C_est_La_Vie.jpg   62.15K   58 downloads

#49 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 08:39 AM

Im with you flat bag, they are yet to be proven with wings, sure the theory of them should be quicker on the T750 and the lyons 8 but as of yet have not proved to be.

The offer is still there for the "Winged Shitter compliance tools"! :lol:


of course it's proven

Faster

t-8 beater

cutter has put this question to rest, ask him direct ?

bear in mind TS that the two other Perth ones are over 2.5 so Winged by ur criteria anyway, so are most 750s o/seas and H.o.Gold
The difference could be likened to the RMoment and speed difference between So What and Stealthy, main configuration difference is 1 mtr of width and the resultant extra hiking grunt and speed.

doesn't prove anything that the old crew didn't get a handle on sailing 4-up, thats the problem in itself
they didn't sail that much with the racks on anyway? part of a season
.
dc1 the only issue is whether these wings are OK to sail with (clear the water sufficiently etc)
or to make a more aesthetic set like Mustard Cutter, a more integrated look like the two other Perth boats,
if MC and CLV are similar enough ... maybe Cutter / Benmark still has some specs or tooling ?
.

#50 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 11:15 AM

Im with you flat bag, they are yet to be proven with wings, sure the theory of them should be quicker on the T750 and the lyons 8 but as of yet have not proved to be.

The offer is still there for the "Winged Shitter compliance tools"! :lol:

of course it's proven

Faster

t-8 beater

cutter has put this question to rest, ask him direct ?

bear in mind TS that the two other Perth ones are over 2.5 so Winged by ur criteria anyway, so are most 750s o/seas and H.o.Gold
The difference could be likened to the RMoment and speed difference between So What and Stealthy, main configuration difference is 1 mtr of width and the resultant extra hiking grunt and speed.

doesn't prove anything that the old crew didn't get a handle on sailing 4-up, thats the problem in itself
they didn't sail that much with the racks on anyway? part of a season
.
dc1 the only issue is whether these wings are OK to sail with (clear the water sufficiently etc)
or to make a more aesthetic set like Mustard Cutter, more like the other 3 to 3.4 mtr wide boats
if MC and CLV are similar enough ... maybe Cutter knows of the specs (or tooling) ?
.

#51 dachopper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:39 AM

TS ... if I read the above correctly.... cutter = a dude from mustard cutter = who paid for and uses the wings/ownes the boat? It sounds a bit nasty that your telling him or me what we should do with the wings when you clearly have never used them and maybe never even sailed on a t750 ... and after cutter said that the boat goes way faster with them on, and I have used them on and off and get that impression allready...how could still tell me their unproven?

Anyhow I guess we will see how they go when we get out their with the other two.

#52 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 01:00 AM

Fuck! Ive never even sailed a boat before or know the slightest bit about sailing period, but the boats i have seen that started life as nonwinged boats arnt going as quick as they used to, so to ME they are still yet to be proven!

I would love you to leave them on, as well as the other guys should to, its great beating "Winged Shitters" accross the line! :lol:

#53 bang the left corner

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 01:20 AM

Fuck! Ive never even sailed a boat before or know the slightest bit about sailing period, but the boats i have seen that started life as nonwinged boats arnt going as quick as they used to, so to ME they are still yet to be proven!

I would love you to leave them on, as well as the other guys should to, its great beating "Winged Shitters" accross the line! :lol:


I think the main reason that some of the boats are now going slower has more to do with the people on the boats rather than the speed difference between a winged boat and an unwinged boat, after all we are talking about Sports boats that by their very nature are like a Skiff with a little lead bolted on the bottom of the keel. The difference between two identical Skiffs can be 10+ minutes around a Saturday arvo course only due to the sails and the guys on the boat, the same can be said for any one design fleet (I know as I am usually +10 mins behind the winners).

If some people feel wings are faster then don't try and talk them into cutting them off, let them sail with them and see who is faster. I always felt that MC was faster with the wings and the smaller bulb. I was sure that CLV originally had wide wings like the two Perth T750's and Atomic in NZ but they were cut off. All the photo's posted here are much newer than when the boat was at Coffs as they all have Lidgard sails and I am sure Pierre Gal had his own sails. I have a photo of the boat in Coffs soon after it was built and I am sure the wings are the same as the photos of Atomic and at least one of the Perth 750's. I will try and find the photo and post it when I get a chance.

#54 on the breeze

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:17 AM

Fuck! Ive never even sailed a boat before or know the slightest bit about sailing period, but the boats i have seen that started life as nonwinged boats arnt going as quick as they used to, so to ME they are still yet to be proven!

I would love you to leave them on, as well as the other guys should to, its great beating "Winged Shitters" accross the line! :lol:



Guys I don't believe that Slapper is "trying to talk" anyone out of anything he is mearly expressing an opinion (and an expeirenced one at that). this is a Forum where.

No need to get personal. :huh:

#55 bfp

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:24 AM

Guys I don't believe that Slapper is "trying to talk" anyone out of anything he is mearly expressing an opinion (and an expeirenced one at that). this is a Forum where.



I think slapper is just trying to stir the pot - he knows exactly how much faster boats with wings are when compared to them off the same boat - he has sailed the winged shitters he loves to bag!

#56 on the breeze

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:41 AM

I think slapper is just trying to stir the pot - he knows exactly how much faster boats with wings are when compared to them off the same boat - he has sailed the winged shitters he loves to bag!



what do you think OOMUMADOO
p.s. why no answer on your phone mmumma

Edited by on the breeze, 29 August 2007 - 03:46 AM.


#57 on the breeze

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:57 AM

I think slapper is just trying to stir the pot - he knows exactly how much faster boats with wings are when compared to them off the same boat - he has sailed the winged shitters he loves to bag!



I have been on your boat without wings, and let me tell you the only thing that happens is you hit the dirt and get pulled up by the Cops :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

#58 Cutter

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 05:10 AM

Im with you flat bag, they are yet to be proven with wings, sure the theory of them should be quicker on the T750 and the lyons 8 but as of yet have not proved to be.

The offer is still there for the "Winged Shitter compliance tools"! :lol:

St Helena Cup 2005
HIRW 2002/3/?
SCOR 2004/5
nah no proof whatsoever, that green boat was that far behind i could understand your mistaken perception

Attached Files


Edited by Cutter, 29 August 2007 - 05:20 AM.


#59 bfp

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 05:24 AM

I have been on your boat without wings, and let me tell you the only thing that happens is you hit the dirt and get pulled up by the Cops :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Totally self-inflicted too, I understand! But I am sure that Slapper is right that the boat is faster without the wings.

#60 dachopper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 06:27 AM

I've had an idea... next time I go out... I'll get every one to sit on the beam to let the boat tip as much as it would without the wings...then when it gets to the heel angle that it starts slowing down at .... I will climb out and sit on the edge of the wing, to let you know if it goes faster now with the wings on or not. I can even try to get it on video just for proof

#61 Shaw-650

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 06:37 AM

Im with you flat bag, they are yet to be proven with wings, sure the theory of them should be quicker on the T750 and the lyons 8 but as of yet have not proved to be.

The offer is still there for the "Winged Shitter compliance tools"! :lol:


I reckon it has more to do with stuffing around with a boat that has been designed with a certain amount of lead. Cut that off and adding wings simply stuffs with the balance. I could understand if the boat was no quicker once it was modified. What i do believe tho is that a 3.5m boat designed that way from the ground up is quicker than a 2.5m boat. Only have to look at the record of Viv for that.

#62 DanimalNZ

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 08:45 AM

i think its GPS logging time ...

#63 Cutter

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 09:34 AM

Totally self-inflicted too, I understand! But I am sure that Slapper is right that the boat is faster without the wings.


copy of a post i wrote fully charged after day 1 of Sty Helena Cup 2005.

"Well the Cutter handed out a spanking today to anything that looked like a sportsboat,
Top wind speed we saw 36knots, yes we have windgear, Race started low 20's and gradually built. breeze direction nth.
Top Boat speed, 18.9kts square running with the big boy on,
upwind low7's
two sail reach 16kts
3rd mono across the line in a fleet of 120
Handicap no idea
You gotta finish to get a result many didn't, the much publicised fuket 8 didn't show. If your looking at buying one just buy the cutter.
yes the crew is now fully loaded with the able support of bundy bear much fun been had, and loads of stories,
we also tipped her in on the run, for the first time have seen the bulb out of the tide, thankfully its 450kgs and only down for a little while."

If it were an arms race, Go the wings...

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#64 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:14 AM

I reckon it has more to do with stuffing around with a boat that has been designed with a certain amount of lead. Cut that off and adding wings simply stuffs with the balance. I could understand if the boat was no quicker once it was modified. What i do believe tho is that a 3.5m boat designed that way from the ground up is quicker than a 2.5m boat. Only have to look at the record of Viv for that.

it is simple !

the lead can be the same

and depending on the 750 the width can be 2.5, 3.0 or in the case of cutters fastest mode, 3.4

of course the speed follows the widths. after EWL and {sail area in light weather}, Righting Moment rules.

a very similar RMom situation is the Magic sans trapezes, same 'amount of lead', about .030-.035 tcf points slower, thats with an extra man hiking to lessen the bleeding.
.

fancy TS questioning the obvious after screaming blue murder for 3 years that they are so much quicker they should be shunted to another division or banned.
How would his Moth have gone with it's wings pulled ?

#65 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:26 AM

but the boats i have seen that started life as nonwinged boats arnt going as quick as they used to, so to ME they are still yet to be proven!


does that mean cutter is bullshitting then ?

and Steve Thompson is wrong too ?

i.e. should have designed all the 3 mtr wide t750's at 2.5mtrs

everyone knows more RM is faster, the canter, the water ballast, the trapeze, the plank designers, the melges device, oh and the wings/racks advocates.
.

#66 Heaven can wait

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:39 AM

I still can't work out why the T830 wasn't aimed here in Oz also other than Europe, with wings - A Missile.

Cutter, the 750 works better with Wings and the 450kg bulb or the 300kg bulb??

Seems to be conflicting combo's bandied around.

#67 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:46 AM

I agree Gybe Set, Ban them ALL! All "Winged Shitters" and "Arms Racers" should be over 1.00 CBH and in there own Division!

:lol:

:lol:

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#68 Rolls Ross

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:56 AM

I am sure Dachopper is appreciating all of this fantastic advice.

The T750 is an awesome little boat, have raced against MC and CLV the latter in both Qld and at Sandringham. Beautiful little boat and the wings should add an additional fun factor which is what sportsboats and sailing in general is all about.

My advice, grab a couple of the local SB sailors to come for a ride and run through a few things with you that are specific to sportsboats and you will enjoy the experience so much more.

Saw your You Tube footage, seems like you were having a great time - continue to do so. I look forward to hearing about how much fun you have with this gem of a boat.

#69 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:56 AM

I suspect you'd really need to "two boat test" to absolutely put that one to bed, (tho I have no doubt whatsoever)

all upthread HC

MC was only at 300 at Hammo (when it could pull a faster elapsed than it's larger brother the t-8 racer)

" didn't give it a chance to work out, it did one hammo regatta and then we took it off to go race CBH in the nats "

#70 dachopper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:01 PM

:)
I think TS should be in his own division...
If they banned all innovation then the sport wouldn't go anywhere !

#71 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:04 PM

'99 hammo, lindeman island race

3.4 wide MC, 300kg bulb versus.
2.5 wide Ce'st L Vie 400+ bulb


Foundation 4.00.46 2.59.27 1 100
Desperado 4.11.13 3.02.28 2 98
Mustard Cut 4.17.41 3.07.49 3 97
C'est la Vie 4.29.05 3.19.13 4 96


race8, closer to the t-8 than the other t750

Shorty 2.25.58 1.26.02 1 100 
Desperado  2.11.38 1.28.09 2 98 
Mustard Cutter  2.12.56 1.28.45 3 97 
Foundation  2.08.02 1.29.15 4 96 
Smoke on the Water  2.23.09 1.29.34 5 95 
C'est la Vie 2.14.24 1.30.13 6 94

race 6 AHEAD of the t-8r, AHEAD of all Thommys other than a 32 footer, and on his hammer,

Cruise Missile 1.29.55 1.05.52 1 100 
Terrorist V 1.28.48 1.06.03 2 98 
Mustard Cutter 1.31.33 1.07.07 3 97 
Primitive Cool 1.30.02 1.07.17 4 96 
Desperado 1.32.20 1.08.17 6 94 
Smoke on the Water 1.38.52 1.09.14 7 93 
C'est la Vie 1.34.24 1.09.58 8 92 
Predator 1.43.08 1.09.59 9 91 
Gant U.S.A. 1.39.24 1.11.35 10 90 
Quickstix 1.45.54 1.12.45 11 89 
Deadly Sins 1.44.48 1.15.10 12 88 
Rock 'n Roll 1.44.49 1.15.11 13 87 
Sonic Boom 1.48.11 1.17.46 14 86 
Ziggurat 1.57.16 1.26.12 15 85 
Foundation 1.29.21 1.07.54 25 95

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 29 August 2007 - 12:19 PM.


#72 The Winner

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:47 PM

2.5 3.4 WTF the design is 2.9. So some are cut down for legal road width i presume but how are they getting to 3.4 without racks of some sort.

#73 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:54 PM

:)
I think TS should be in his own division...
If they banned all innovation then the sport wouldn't go anywhere !


Sorry fella, i thought you asked for info/comments, i wasnt to know you wouldnt like some opinions from an amature! Mabe you being a newbie to here and all, should put your skirt on the right way, i think you may have got your left nut stuck in the frilly elastic!

GS could you post all the results from that year up please, i would like to sight them all.

#74 Shaw-650

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:03 PM

does that mean cutter is bullshitting then ?

and Steve Thompson is wrong too ?

i.e. should have designed all the 3 mtr wide t750's at 2.5mtrs

everyone knows more RM is faster, the canter, the water ballast, the trapeze, the plank designers, the melges device, oh and the wings/racks advocates.
.


nope...just stating that i could understand that if you started hacking lead off that things might not be as balanced as they were. I'm sure my boat would be a shit load quicker if i racked it but if you started cutting lead off it becomes a different ball game. Just as it has been reported that cutter goes better with the heavier bulb.

#75 dachopper

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:43 PM

Gybeset those times seem pretty close !!!! is that hrs, mins, secs? 2-3 mins.... i would have thought that is close? As in pretty much the same time /speed.

#76 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 03:10 PM

Gybeset those times seem pretty close !!!! is that hrs, mins, secs? 2-3 mins.... i would have thought that is close? As in pretty much the same time /speed.

nowhere near close enough dc, 12 minutes in the 1st case
check last fortnights airlie times gaps to see what 90 secs or 3 minutes will do for you in the current SB fleet here !
don't worry, you have the pick of the bunch when it comes to 750s everyone reckons

nope...just stating that i could understand that if you started hacking lead off that things might not be as balanced as they were. I'm sure my boat would be a shit load quicker if i racked it but if you started cutting lead off it becomes a different ball game. Just as it has been reported that cutter goes better with the heavier bulb.

you've quoted a reply to another poster, slapper, but anyway .....

you could understand also that, done right and Righting Moment equalized perfectly by any other means (traps, cant, wings, water ballast , more crew) that balance may be what it was,
most two-boat design testing is all about this.

also it was reported that the lighter bulb option was not fully explored anywhere except for ONE specific series, the one i have posted some data for, i was in the fleet mere metres away, as was a few more long term sbers here so you can assume 1st hand acct.

the Hammo results show a de-leaded 750 cutting up a standard leaded 750 and the then 'considered unbeatable' t-8racer

wonder what differences might have led to that apparent phenomena ?

I, like you would not alter an 8's config, but this discussion is about the more 'variable' t750s. a different tho similar animal

off-topic, but the reported, new 'coming to Australia' t-8turbo is likely quite like what you are dissing, its VERY wide and I strongly suspect will have a bulb weight that reflects that, if this comes to fruition it may demonstrate 1st hand what 'can be'
.

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 30 August 2007 - 03:24 PM.


#77 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 03:31 PM

dc

at hammo the year after the one posted CLV won convincingly

some insight by Lanson who crewed http://www.triptosom...hammo/about.php

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 30 August 2007 - 03:32 PM.


#78 dachopper

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 02:40 AM

thanks

#79 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 03:31 AM

'99 hammo, lindeman island race

3.4 wide MC, 300kg bulb versus.
2.5 wide Ce'st L Vie 400+ bulb


Foundation 4.00.46 2.59.27 1 100
Desperado 4.11.13 3.02.28 2 98
Mustard Cut 4.17.41 3.07.49 3 97
C'est la Vie 4.29.05 3.19.13 4 96


race8, closer to the t-8 than the other t750

Shorty 2.25.58 1.26.02 1 100 
Desperado  2.11.38 1.28.09 2 98 
Mustard Cutter  2.12.56 1.28.45 3 97 
Foundation  2.08.02 1.29.15 4 96 
Smoke on the Water  2.23.09 1.29.34 5 95 
C'est la Vie 2.14.24 1.30.13 6 94

race 6 AHEAD of the t-8r, AHEAD of all Thommys other than a 32 footer, and on his hammer,

Cruise Missile 1.29.55 1.05.52 1 100 
Terrorist V 1.28.48 1.06.03 2 98 
Mustard Cutter 1.31.33 1.07.07 3 97 
Primitive Cool 1.30.02 1.07.17 4 96 
Desperado 1.32.20 1.08.17 6 94 
Smoke on the Water 1.38.52 1.09.14 7 93 
C'est la Vie 1.34.24 1.09.58 8 92 
Predator 1.43.08 1.09.59 9 91 
Gant U.S.A. 1.39.24 1.11.35 10 90 
Quickstix 1.45.54 1.12.45 11 89 
Deadly Sins 1.44.48 1.15.10 12 88 
Rock 'n Roll 1.44.49 1.15.11 13 87 
Sonic Boom 1.48.11 1.17.46 14 86 
Ziggurat 1.57.16 1.26.12 15 85 
Foundation 1.29.21 1.07.54 25 95



GS where are you getting these results from? I cant find em anywhere, and i want to see them all and the owners/skippers to see which T7's were there and sailed by whom. Got a link ect?

#80 Heaven can wait

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 10:12 AM

[quote name='GybeSetŪ' date='Aug 30 2007, 07:10 AM' post='1315976']

also it was reported that the lighter bulb option was not fully explored anywhere except for ONE specific series, the one i have posted some data for, i was in the fleet mere metres away, as was a few more long term sbers here so you can assume 1st hand acct.

the Hammo results show a de-leaded 750 cutting up a standard leaded 750 and the then 'considered unbeatable' t-8racer

wonder what differences might have led to that apparent phenomena ?



GS, before you get carried away with your own knowledge on the subject, I stood in a multiple car garage with Team Cutter and was told which config was faster.

QUOTE(Cutter @ Aug 30 2005, 08:13 PM)
Current config is 450kg bulb and wings taking beam to 3.4m. wings are extensions off flair in the hull. You could call it upwind configuration, when we have it cooking we go upwind with Vivace and stealthy. ease the sheets and there gooone.

With the 300 kg bulb we struggled to get the boat upwind in a rough seaway and we diddn't give it a chance to work out, it did one hammo regatta and then we took it off to go race CBH in the nats.


From what Cutter has quoted not only to me in person but here as well is that with the heavier bulb and wings, MC goes uphill with Stealthy and Vivace.

With the lighter bulb it struggles in a seaway and is only as fast as the "Unbeatable T-8", now if the fore mentioned boats beat a T-8 generally, and MC could stay with them uphill then my money would be on the heavier bulb uphill being the faster with the wings.

The T750 as with the T-8 were designed with a high ballast ratio, and hence sitting on the waterlines they were designed to, unless you find a 150kg dude to sit out on the wings, the boat won't be as settled or fast uphill as it is supposed to be.

But then again, what do I know, not much I suspect.

#81 dachopper

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 01:07 PM

So if i plan on using the 400 kg bulb and 150kg less crew weight with the wings.... where does that leave me?

#82 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 01:13 PM

With a winged Shitter!

But i can help with that!

Attached Files



#83 dachopper

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 01:50 PM

two more questions, what's a winged shitter and what does it have to do with a bar room admiral? :o

#84 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 01:27 AM

crapola hcw

the results are there and plain to see, you weren't there when it posted the elapsed time data,
you can't see Hamilton Island racing from most mainland 'garages',

itsa folly argyin' bout a hypothetical only two-boat testing would conclusively solve, period

your point on variable crew weight is the answer to your load-waterlines concern, the 8m-ish sportsboats can vary crew weight ( thus overall sailing displacement) with no ill or obvious effect other than losing RMom and stiffness when they are undercooked (down to 4 people for example),

yes MC had some (additional?) of hiking weight on board up there from memory, so you're right the overall weight may not have been too different, the boats are just not that critical to adding or removing a body or two of weight, its a course tune in that respect they can handle it

weight does not hurt much at all uphill except on a planing upwind skiff type, which is not the case here so arguably the larger bulb should be quicker on a breezy day and particularly on W/L (non passage) type racing, but no more (less so?) than another 110 kg sitting bloke on wing.

you can also read the comment that that the light bulb wasn't developed OR further WORKED AT, ratios-wise it was a large step toward the Arms Racer spec we know on Bethwaites, Stealths and onesteel, ( winged width, light bulb) not hard to figure out the concept behind it
----------------------------------
.

dachopper, don't worry about ur config, it'll be fine. D-Day when ya meet the other 750's on the course 'eh.
ten times more to be had by time on the water and figgerin out how to extract it's potential than worring about all this BS conjecture FOR SURE

just do it :-)

#85 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 01:41 AM

crapola hcw

the results are there and plain to see, you weren't there when it posted the elapsed time data,
you can't see Hamilton Island racing from most mainland 'garages',

itsa folly argyin' bout a hypothetical only two-boat testing would conclusively solve, period

your point on variable crew weight is the answer to your load-waterlines concern, the 8m-ish sportsboats can vary crew weight ( thus overall sailing displacement) with no ill or obvious effect other than losing RMom and stiffness when they are undercooked (down to 4 people for example),

yes MC had some (additional?) of hiking weight on board up there from memory, so you're right the overall weight may not have been too different, the boats are just not that critical to adding or removing a body or two of weight, its a course tune in that respect they can handle it

weight does not hurt much at all uphill except on a planing upwind skiff type, which is not the case here so arguably the larger bulb should be quicker on a breezy day and particularly on W/L (non passage) type racing, but no more (less so?) than another 110 kg sitting bloke on wing.

you can also read the comment that that the light bulb wasn't developed OR further WORKED AT, ratios-wise it was a large step toward the Arms Racer spec we know on Bethwaites, Stealths and onesteel, ( winged width, light bulb) not hard to figure out the concept behind it
----------------------------------
.

dachopper, don't worry about ur config, it'll be fine. D-Day when ya meet the other 750's on the course 'eh.
ten times more to be had by time on the water and figgerin out how to extract it's potential than worring about all this BS conjecture FOR SURE

just do it :-)

oh and ....

Turkeys derogatory names for other peoples choice of boats is just a continuation of a 4 yr campaign to reduce the fleet sizes vis a vis the number of boats that can beat him

Now that he kinda can't shop for his own handicap (his t-7's number is basically under speed already and arguably locked in as a virtual 'control' and proven TCF,
his last resort is to attempt to influence his oppositions handicaps upward, which he does with some success as the qld hcap dictator arbiter listens to him.

bring on the national commitee driven set of caps i say, be done with this trailer sailor derived arbitary bullshit !!

hi goggs :)

#86 Heaven can wait

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 01:55 AM

GS, quit deleting your posts then rewriting them will you.

Firstly in replying to your original swipe, which I expected, no I wasn't there at Hammo to see the light, but I've been involved with the Australian players of the T-boat game and experience in this area is considerable.

If the Team MC had a lighter bulb on for one Regatta, and deduce that they are struggling with it in a Seaway so they opt back to the heavier bulb which the boat was designed with in the first place by Thommo, something is telling me that no tuning of the boats lighter bulb is going to increase the boats performance overall, there has to be trade offs as I mentioned up thread being more or heavier crew.

The fact is like all Thompsons they are designed as all rounders, with all having considerable rocker and generous ballast ratios, this is done primarily because they have narrow waterlines at the beam and considerable sail plans.

To give you an example of how well a Thompson goes once you start mucking around with bulb weight, you need go no further than ask anyone of the crew or indeed anyone at LMYC what happens when you take 200kgs off a 900kg bulb.

The boat goes sideways, gets slammed by chop, and is a complete prick to sail uphill in any sort of breeze let alone with the necessity to find 4 more crew to get anywhere near the grunt before the bulb was played with.

The T750 is obviously not as extreme in the end result if you have hiking weight available to make up the difference in bulb weight.

In short the big gains aren't in loosing lead if the boat was designed with a certain weight bulb, the gains are in the hull/rig/fittout weight. To fit wings dramatically increase the leverage/grunt available in "live" ballast which will increase performance considerably with no additional crew than in base spec, and no loss of Ballasted grunt being the bulb.

Yes MC had a good 2005 Hammo, the e/times prove that, however it was the additional crew weight and wings that did it not the lighter bulb IMHO.

As a side a Y780 falls over quite nicely with a 200kg bulb, with wings we'd have half a chance of sailing it with any kind of performance, however in 2.5 mode it's useless even for ex skiffies.

#87 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 02:32 AM

i know the facts

the data is posted

seen it wid my own eyes mate, saw turtle yesterday but i didn't bring it up.

it was not 2005 Hammo, don't think either boat was not getting used much by 2005 anyway, certainly not HI.

seriously .... it's all hypothetical outside of two-boat testing, it would be near impossible to recreate last milleniums whitsundays Thommo duels now with the various modes, fergetaboutitwillya, ur pissing against the wind,

anyway i think dachopper has got some great background on his great boat/design, it's all up from here !

#88 dachopper

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 05:40 AM

Well tomorrow is the big day.... 3 crew, mast head kite, 8 - 13 kts, what could go wrong?

#89 Sandgroper Yachting

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 09:41 AM

Come and sail at South of Perth we have most of the sport boats here, ie t750's sports 8, t7's, r8, bull 7000, elliott7.5 and plenty of hardstanding (when the finnish the renovations in a month or so)
Cheers

I'll believe that when I see it.
They have been doing that hardstand for the last 10 years and its looked the same for the last 9.

Hey, it is really easy to sort this out, come and race at SoPYC where there are 2 of them already and I am sure it wont take too long to figure out what is fast.

All of this tech talk is way too serious for a true sportsboat sailor. Just get on, sit down, hang on and shut up.

Is Turnham actually ever going to get out of the Stock Road Yacht Club and get back in the water.
It wouldnt surprise me if the thing is fused to the trailer it has been out of the water for that dam long.
Has he checked his sails lately to see how many holes the moths have eaten in them?

#90 soliverg

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 03:38 PM

I'll believe that when I see it.
They have been doing that hardstand for the last 10 years and its looked the same for the last 9.
Is Turnham actually ever going to get out of the Stock Road Yacht Club and get back in the water.
It wouldnt surprise me if the thing is fused to the trailer it has been out of the water for that dam long.
Has he checked his sails lately to see how many holes the moths have eaten in them?



Samdgroper, Sorry I was refering to the new jetties being finnished. They stoped new boats from joining the hardstand area as they are using it for construction. Theres a couple of TS that want to join the club from up north and a couple that raced in Geograph in the performance fleet that want to come and play as well, but carnt just yet. To the Clubs credit the movements have been logistically well done. Hopefully by season start they will.
And yes it would be good the go sailing without having white limestone powder all over the boat. Its not a cheap exercise to fix though.

#91 the sa

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 07:08 AM

I'll believe that when I see it.
They have been doing that hardstand for the last 10 years and its looked the same for the last 9.
Is Turnham actually ever going to get out of the Stock Road Yacht Club and get back in the water.
It wouldnt surprise me if the thing is fused to the trailer it has been out of the water for that dam long.
Has he checked his sails lately to see how many holes the moths have eaten in them?

Such negativety, is it no wonder sailing is not growing like it should in Perth.

The hard stand is on the short term plans, however, and I should say sensibly, the managemant of the club elected to produce higher income assets first, giving the club the ability to grow further. Yes the hardstand has taken a while, but when completed will be the best in Perth, if not further afield, and I have used a lot of hardstands. I wonder, when it is done, will you guys be rushing to put the boat on it? There may be a wait as we fill the spots with long term supporters of the club.

Turnhams owner has been sidelined by business over the last 2 seasons but he is keen as hell to get back into it this season, he has even cut the 6 foot high grass from around the boat, and I am lead to believe that he has gone so far as to put air in the tyres. We will have to wait and see how much time he has away from work to come and play, but those of us that sail sportsboats hope he can.

But then again, when you had the opportunity to play with some of the fastest boats on the river this winter, you went elsewhere. Let's keep it all in perspective shall we.

Edited by The SA, 02 September 2007 - 07:10 AM.


#92 dachopper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 07:32 AM

WoW


The wind was only around 12-14 kts with the new reef in the main would you believe ( to test it out ) , and a #1 with 3 people on board. We were passed by around a 40 foot motor boat up near the brewry, and whooosh 9kts up to 15.7kts and the boat just sat there cracked off the breeze on the front of the bow wave for a few minutes!! It was crazy, thank god for the wings! and I think we actually started overtaking it... until he looked like he throttled up to get away. Would have been very interesting or very wet if we had had the kite up at that stage, the wind was still only around 12/13 kts. So we are still yet to try any kites. Maybe next week if we do the frostbite.

Oh yeah, lucky the markers in alfred cove are covered in Polystyrene :o

#93 dachopper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 08:08 AM

I forgot to mention as far as rig tuning goes

With the reef in the main the main is roughly level with the headsail / forstay almost ( a little above I think )
cruising along the inner shrouds from the deck to the first spreader base = tight on upwind side, and reasonably firm when not loaded but when going the downwind side is loose ( inner stay ) and all the inner stays on 1st to secon spreader are also loose on downwind side.

Also looking up front of mast when heeling with the reefed main, the bend is in the centre of the mast, to leeward probably by maybe an inch or two. Ie the mast left to right is bending around the centre when loaded, is straight when not loaded, is this a simple case of puling the outer stays on tighter then all the inners on so as to not pull the prebend out? or should it bend like that with the reef?

#94 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 11:35 AM

oh and ....

Turkeys derogatory names for other peoples choice of boats is just a continuation of a 4 yr campaign to reduce the fleet sizes vis a vis the number of boats that can beat him

Now that he kinda can't shop for his own handicap (his t-7's number is basically under speed already and arguably locked in as a virtual 'control' and proven TCF,
his last resort is to attempt to influence his oppositions handicaps upward, which he does with some success as the qld hcap dictator arbiter listens to him.

bring on the national commitee driven set of caps i say, be done with this trailer sailor derived arbitary bullshit !!

hi goggs :)


Trying to reduce the fleet sizes? Fuckin Bullshit!

When have i shopped for a Handicap? Have allways been happy with the CBH numbers, they seam to be the only ones close at the moment. Just look at the ams number split between the T7 and E780 compared to the CBH which proves to be close. If i was shopping for handicap wins wouldnt i have bought the E?

#95 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 12:32 PM

well , you'll have to explain to me,
How is cutting out the winged and Open boats, splitting the fleet as you've suggested for years ... not gonna result in lesser SB division numbers ?

? ?
are they OK to race now ?
-------------------------------------------------

YOU have always been happy with CBH numbers !! LOL LOL LOLALOT ! how convenient, now that you have launched a t7 haha, sheez

i would certainly buy a t-7 based on recent hcap performance !!
last two Airlies (plus placings) and current Geelong !! and the 6 odd yrs bangin' wins prior to that

it's sailing up/over the .895 EASY when crewed near it's potential
-----------------------------------------

anyway Goggs no-one calls your boats SHITTERS,
i am gybin'jibing at ya, :) when did ya ever STOP shopping ?

p.s. how did you get 1st place points redress two years in a row? don't let that one out of the bag.
----------------------------------------

ams split is interesting, I knew you'd be aware of it btw, it's about 26 clicks so ....

interestingly the ams guys are e780 and t-7 owners, surely Grizzly wouldn't be handing every race over to DDE and OOE on paper

maybe the assoc guys need to back run the Airlie data thru those figures and check that the result wasn't affected adversely.
.

i guess we should leave this thread to the 750s turks

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 02 September 2007 - 12:34 PM.


#96 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 12:32 PM

p.s. how did you get 1st place points redress two years in a row? don't let that one out of the bag.



Well i only entered a boat in 1 year, and when run into and put out of a race cause of the damage you protest if your in the right, as we were, and when you win you apply for redress for that days racing, which was done, and anyone else would have done, even you. So i dont see a problem there.

This year i happened to be on a boat that rescued a person out of the water and the skipper asked for redress for the time back for said rescue. How was this points shopping?

Anyone here find these claims unreasonable?

I have however learnt my lesson, the next time i see a MOB i will sail past and fuckin leave them there to fend off the croc's ect, the critisim i personally heard was far more then the praise for what we thought was right. Cause im there to win by any means!

#97 dachopper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 12:36 PM

also had a bit of trouble from the tictak racing depth thing.... blinking on/off and forgetting max speed etc.... any ideas?

#98 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 12:41 PM

no idea dachop, I'd say they'd only serve as a distraction at this point of the boat learning curve ? good to fix tho
--------------

stop it turks,
iv'e tagged released ya twice !! :)

btw

if you hadn't of got that redress for 1st place points last year it would have been (us in) a t-7 in 2nd place as well as t-7 1st 'eh
yep. i'd get one for corrected time wins, no other boat really, they are fantastic, hot stuff and you've got one, cool as !

Edited by GybeSetŪ, 02 September 2007 - 12:47 PM.


#99 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 01:04 PM

if you hadn't of got that redress for 1st place points last year it would have been (us in) a t-7 in 2nd place as well as t-7 1st 'eh



Not the way i worked it out!

#100 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 01:16 PM

3 strikes ! oouutt.

sounded pretty good from where i'm sitting




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