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#2401 El Crapitano

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

I will be cartopping. My car rails are solid and have been tested with 120 lbs of bikes.

Milk jugs for bouyancy work better on paper than real life. They are larger than the holes in the bulkhead and the space under the deck. So wine bags are coming from a brewmaster supplier.

It's almost time to drill the spreader pivot holes. Are the Well Nuts that Chris uses the neoprene rubber encased nuts like in the picture, or are they solid stainless barrel nuts?

Are rod rigging shrouds a do it self project or is there a source? I need to sort out what the fittings at the hounds will be. I'm assuming that tangs are not used and the shroud fittings bolt directly on.

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#2402 Steve Clark

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:00 PM

Coffee bags from Duncan Doughnuts "Box O Joe" also work well.
T think Chis meant T nuts not well nuts.
I wouldn't trust the neoprene things.
I have been pretty happy with 3/16 pins or shoulder bolts( if you can find them) for spreader attachment.

The hounds can be a 1/4" stud between two marine eyes with nylocks on the outside.
Or you can use aircraft eves and drill and tap them for 1/4 28 thread and wind them on directly.
In any event you want the clear threads all the way through the spar. The nutted solution is slightly stronger because the shrouds themselves are not hanging on a tread.
Van Dusen puts some patching in the hounds area, but you probably want to add some more.

I like T terminals, but have concerns about how they hang in the mast. I want all the wires to land at more or less the same height, but don't want that many holes in one place. I've also had both good and bad results with the conventional installation, so I do something differently
Attached File  IC hounds detail.jpg   148.51K   30 downloads
The backing plates are tacked to a tube the same diameter as the mast. A laminate is packed over the top. This sleeve is released, trimmed sanded and then bonded to the mast. The holes for the t terminals is then cleaned out. As you can see I am not consistent about whether or not to rivet. This maximizes the bearing area of the backing plate, adds laminate around the holes and is easier to do than carefully cutting the holes, and pulling the T terminals into place.

Rod rigging is an art project, I do it because I have the rod and the rest of the stuff. It isn't really necessary. I would probably just use 1/19 if I didn't have a ton of the stuff left over from C Cats.
SHC

#2403 Del Olsen

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:01 PM

Bladders from Chateau du box [fit the bill, just leave a little space for heat and density altitude expansion before you seal the cap.
The SS barrel nuts are the choice, 3/16" washer head bolts make a sexy look on the spreader bracket.
As for rod rigging SHC is the expert there. We're old school out here, 1x19 or die-form. We generally use the 'Gibb' 'T' lock & plate for attaching shrouds but have seen 1/4" marine eye termals bolted thru. the thru bolt option survives longer when the mast wall thickness at the hounds has been doubled or thereabouts.
Keep the pix comming, looking forward to seeing her splash,
good luck !
quote name='El Crapitano' timestamp='1331565408' post='3622569']
I will be cartopping. My car rails are solid and have been tested with 120 lbs of bikes.

Milk jugs for bouyancy work better on paper than real life. They are larger than the holes in the bulkhead and the space under the deck. So wine bags are coming from a brewmaster supplier.

It's almost time to drill the spreader pivot holes. Are the Well Nuts that Chris uses the neoprene rubber encased nuts like in the picture, or are they solid stainless barrel nuts?

Are rod rigging shrouds a do it self project or is there a source? I need to sort out what the fittings at the hounds will be. I'm assuming that tangs are not used and the shroud fittings bolt directly on.
[/quote]

#2404 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:21 AM

This is the mold for my spreader bracket. The carbon goes around the triangular piece in the middle and it gets clamped into the bottom piece using the three parts at the top of the picture. The bracket has sweep and dihedral. Unlike some of my earlier work, this part came out of the mold easily.

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#2405 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:26 AM

My mast OD is the same as my boom ID. I'm using excess boom material as sleeves at the hounds and the spreader bracket.

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#2406 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:29 AM

This picture shows the spreader bracket with the uncut spreaders around the sleeve. The spreader bracket needs some trimming to size and the pivots need to be installed. The spreaders are airfoil sections with a carbon center spar. Filler is added to the inboard ends of the spreaders to make them fit in the bracket.

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#2407 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:37 AM

These are the upper and lower gooseneck parts. Both need holes drilled in them for the gooseneck pivot and cunningham lines. The bottom part in the picture has a recessed annulus milled in it so it fits atop the mast stump. It needs a square hole to accept the 1 inch square anti rotation steel bar. The bar will be throughbolted in the mast stump and the mast. The dark marks are where the smoke that set off the smoke detector that made the auto dialer call the security company that called the fire department formed. Just another rookie mistake.

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#2408 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:45 AM

The gooseneck will go together like this.Attached File  Gooseneck.jpg   404.89K   19 downloads

I just figured out how to attach more than one picture to a post.

The mast stump is sleeved internally to spread the bearing loads of the anti twist bolt.Attached File  Mast Stump Reinforcement.jpg   110.36K   22 downloads

I used excess mast material that I kerfed. The mast looks better with the internal reinforcement than if I had laminated the outside. Both ends of the stump have reinforcements and a third one will go into the mast butt.

#2409 TalonF4U

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:05 AM

Hey, so who's going to pass the news about the IC midwinters to the website guy?

Sail A Canoe Day at RYC is this Sunday. It will also coincide with the first splash of USA 245. May she be fast!

#2410 El Crapitano

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:23 PM

Next step is cutting the mast to length. Plan is to leave 1.5" between the hoist band and the tip of the mast. Is there a reason for wanting more?

#2411 Del Olsen

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:41 PM

If you are using a halyard lock that requires hoisting the sail higher to latch/unlatch then 1.5 " is plenty.
Looking good.
& anxious minds want to know the Mobile Bay Midwinters results. ??

#2412 D Brennan

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:11 PM

IC MID-WINTERS report. Three days of racing with breezes @ 8-16 knots. 8 boats competed, results as follows
1st David Clark
2nd Steve Clark
3rd Bill Beaver
4th Karl Klienstrodt
5th David Gilliland
6th Don Brennan
7th Willie Clark
8th Eli ?

11 races sailed, lots of break downs, sore muscles, and swimming. Steve Clark has the scores and also some pics. He and the clan are just getting back home; so maybe he'll give a report manana. I will tell ya this; David Clarks USA 150 is blazing fast!!!

#2413 eliboat

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

Yes David's boat is blazing fast, but I don' think that the results were a sole result of the weapon. David was incredibly fast and sailed well.

#2414 Big D

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

For those who missed it Buccaneer Yacht Club and Don are a great reason to head south in March. Thanks to all of the volunteers who made this a great weekend of sailing canoes. Thanks to Steve for making the long trip and for bringing in new faces. Special thanks to Eli and Bill and David who spent the big bucks to fly in and play. Enjoyed being part of this group. Oh and the oysters and shrimp were to die for.

#2415 atg

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:18 PM

IC MID-WINTERS report. Three days of racing with breezes @ 8-16 knots. 8 boats competed, results as follows
1st David Clark
2nd Steve Clark
3rd Bill Beaver
4th Karl Klienstrodt
5th David Gilliland
6th Don Brennan
7th Willie Clark
8th Eli ?

11 races sailed, lots of break downs, sore muscles, and swimming. Steve Clark has the scores and also some pics. He and the clan are just getting back home; so maybe he'll give a report manana. I will tell ya this; David Clarks USA 150 is blazing fast!!!


150? Is that Alice on yet another diet? Oh wait I think she was 93 or something. 150?

#2416 FoilerMothGuy

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:12 AM

I think he meant 250. Alice is 92. Both are rocketships.

#2417 TalonF4U

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:02 AM

Full IC Midwinters report is up! IC Midwinters 2012
Thanks Steve for the gouge. If you've got photos, send 'em to me and I'll post 'em!

#2418 Amati

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:49 PM

So, Mr. Maas, what is happening with your foil shaped folded foam?

Anything class legal?

When I try to put my epp variant through the required hoops, bad things happen...

Paul

#2419 JimC

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

For all those who aren't as good as the amazing craftsman we get on this thread...

Attached File  close.jpg   83.02K   43 downloads

Attached File  open.jpg   77.28K   39 downloads

This is my prototype halyard lock. Painted with an odd bit of half dried up paint because I needed something that was a contrasting colour to the spar.

The white rope is the halyard
The black line is the trip

Pull up the halyard and the stainless shackle pushes the bail out of the way and engages with the hook, usually first time, occasionally pull it down a couple of inches and try again.

Release the halyard and tug on the trip (which just comes out of the bottom of the mast with a loop on the end) and the shackle disengages from the hook and the sail just pulls down.

I wasn't originally planning the big solid lump that joins the two halves of the bail, but I got nervous:-) Not so much about in use but about having it drag on the bottom if I tip the boat in in shallow water. It has hit the bottom a couple of times and survived.

#2420 Reht

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:48 PM

Speaking of craftsmen, that looks really neat, and it should avoid the problems I've seen on other systems when it won't release. Only question/concern, how do you avoid the possibility of something swinging around and catching the release? Would be really unfortunate to have your main just drop mid-race on a breezy day...

#2421 JimC

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:09 PM

Speaking of craftsmen, that looks really neat, and it should avoid the problems I've seen on other systems when it won't release. Only question/concern, how do you avoid the possibility of something swinging around and catching the release? Would be really unfortunate to have your main just drop mid-race on a breezy day...

You could cleat off the halyard I guess, which would effectively lock the thing in place, but there isn't anything that can catch it at the top, and there isn't much at the bottom of the mast either. It does need a pretty firm pull to operate the trip too: its not like a trigger release. No doubt it will prove me wrong the next time I find myself doing unexpectedly well in a race... Mind you I have to get healthy enough to be able to sail again first.

#2422 Amati

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:41 PM

Healthy? What gives?

#2423 TalonF4U

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 05:55 AM

Hellcat has hit the water!!

If your April Fool's Day lacked for tomfoolry...or even if it didn't... read the exploits of USA 245's first splash here: http://international...org/?page_id=90

Tons of photos were taken at the event, but I don't have any of 'em yet, so give me a few days to get them up on the website. For those of you who sent me photos of Mobile, thanks...I'll get 'em up once the scars heal from this weekend.

I have seen at least one video of the event. I need a few days to edit it for content. I think it has a few seconds of me sailing along looking competent.

Thanks to all the US canoe folks that helped me get to this point!

Next US IC regatta: Big Dinghy, Richmond YC Apr 14-15th. Who's coming?

#2424 JimC

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

Excellent:-)

Good to see it... There seems to be something about the launch of new boats that leads to embarassment. The last time I launched an all new boat the string on a toe strap came unknotted and I disappeared over the side to come up with a two piece tiller extension...

#2425 clooless

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:04 PM

Great write up, sounds not unlike my second venture out on the IAC this weekend. Didn't look like much breeze from the shore, or as I got away from the beach, but turns out a nice lumpy F4 was lurking out there and certainly made for an interesting 2nd sail!

Still learning how to string the thing together, my old boat, a Blaze, had nowhere near the number of sails or controls to rig, adjust and then (apparently if you can actually think of something to let go of long enough without baling in) adjust again!

I ticked off some more boxes though;

Hiked off the end of the seat - damn it's fast from out there on a tight reach!
Fell off the end of the seat - and remembered to let go off the extension :-)
Got washed half-off the seat, hung on with one leg and go back onboard - well flung back on by next gust anyhow!
Tacked and gybed by going behind the boom, instead of under it
Fell out the back of the boat - twice, just to make sure I know how to get that right in future
Capsized a lot - check
Found out why shin pads come in handy - check
Cursed my 2-4-1 cocktails inspired fuzzed head and complete lack of fitness frequently - check
Smiled a lot - check
Still smiling writing this and thinking about it - check

Looking forward to the long Easter weekend - some light breezes hopefully, get the kite up again and practice my swimming a bit more. Hope the water warms up soon!

#2426 ortegakid

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:24 PM

And I'm still having trouble staying on my IC, can only imagine how FUN an AC would be!

#2427 El Crapitano

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:00 PM

My mast is complete except for dodads to hold the shrouds onto the spreader tips and holes for the anti rotation pin at the bottom. The mast stump is complete too, just needs to be bonded in place once the dance floor is there.

I need to measure the length for the shrouds so the mast had to be raised. A piece of wood between the chainplates keeps the structure intact:

Attached File  DSCF1866 (2).jpg   717.88K   74 downloads

#2428 El Crapitano

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:05 PM

I lost the bubble on posts with multiple pix so bear with me.

Next I clamped guides to my porch and raised the mast:

Attached File  DSCF1868 (2).jpg   652.47K   21 downloads

#2429 El Crapitano

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

With temporary shrouds and forestay:

Attached File  DSCF1869 (2).jpg   745.89K   42 downloads

#2430 El Crapitano

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

I marked the shroud lengths with the mast tipped slightly forward of vertical - 2" at the hounds.

The jib went up so I could mark for foredeck hardware:

Attached File  DSCF1867 (2).jpg   728.07K   49 downloads

How much adjustment do I want in the shrouds?

Is 1/8" Dyform the right stuff for shrouds? Or is 3/32 strong enough?

#2431 TalonF4U

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:36 AM

Did I never post photos of sailing USA 245 for the first time?

Posted Image

#2432 MonkeyDC308

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:11 AM

I marked the shroud lengths with the mast tipped slightly forward of vertical - 2" at the hounds.

The jib went up so I could mark for foredeck hardware:

Attached File  DSCF1867 (2).jpg   728.07K   49 downloads

How much adjustment do I want in the shrouds?

Is 1/8" Dyform the right stuff for shrouds? Or is 3/32 strong enough?

Very good question, will be fiddling with my boat at the weekend now its out of store and will measure the adjustment I have on the shroulds, I think I have 3.5mm Dyform but thats over kill, 3mm is OK, but I think 3/32 may be a bit thin??
Alistair

#2433 Doug Lord

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:17 PM

Did I never post photos of sailing USA 245 for the first time?

===================
Absolutely gorgeus!

#2434 ortegakid

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

Great stuff Stephen!, she looks fabulous!

#2435 Amati

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:29 PM

Nice. Very nice. And aesthetically, I'm diggin' it.

#2436 killerken

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:58 PM

well done !!
I remember my first sail out of there in Chris's new boat.
I also remember having some difficulty in my boat, with the wall, exiting the harbour.
don't tack too close to the damned wall !
cheers K

Did I never post photos of sailing USA 245 for the first time?

Posted Image





#2437 MonkeyDC308

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:47 AM


I marked the shroud lengths with the mast tipped slightly forward of vertical - 2" at the hounds.

The jib went up so I could mark for foredeck hardware:

Attached File  DSCF1867 (2).jpg   728.07K   49 downloads

How much adjustment do I want in the shrouds?

Is 1/8" Dyform the right stuff for shrouds? Or is 3/32 strong enough?

Very good question, will be fiddling with my boat at the weekend now its out of store and will measure the adjustment I have on the shroulds, I think I have 3.5mm Dyform but thats over kill, 3mm is OK, but I think 3/32 may be a bit thin??
Alistair


Measured the throw on the fore stay/ jib , seems to be about 90mm and the shrouds about 70mm. System still not quite right yet, I have 4:1 on the forestay and 18:1 on the shrouds, think they could both do with being a bit more, sailing this weekend in about a force 4 ish (perhaps a 5, very changeable) and the shrouds where waving about quite a bit. Not helped I am sure by the dyneema on the purchase system, prob should have Vectran. Had a great first sail of the season!

Steve- great to see another boat launched, read your report and it sounded very like Dragonfly's first couple launches, always eventful when you have a new boat and have been stuck in the shed building it for a while!
Alistair

#2438 El Crapitano

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

[/quote]

Measured the throw on the fore stay/ jib , seems to be about 90mm and the shrouds about 70mm. System still not quite right yet, I have 4:1 on the forestay and 18:1 on the shrouds, think they could both do with being a bit more, sailing this weekend in about a force 4 ish (perhaps a 5, very changeable) and the shrouds where waving about quite a bit. Not helped I am sure by the dyneema on the purchase system, prob should have Vectran. Had a great first sail of the season!

[/quote]


Thanks Alistair. I have the hardware to do 18:1, could become 36:1 but that would take 2.5 meters of line pulling through the blocks to adjust 70mm. hmm....

#2439 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:10 AM

Been working on the carriage rails. My original plan was to build two of these 8' tubes (.75" sq inside, .10" thick walls) and fitting one to port and one to starboard:

Attached File  Carriage Rail on Mandrel.jpg   644.31K   4 downloads

#2440 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:16 AM

The rails will needs slits in the top for the carriage to slide in, and some gubbins inside the tubes to retain the carriage. They fit into the shape molded into the hull like this (the demo part is an end castoff of the real tube):

Attached File  Carriage Rail Demo.jpg   692.74K   9 downloads

After looking at the rail, I realized that maybe this one tube can be split into two C shapes that would retain the carriage SHC style. My question is will .15" of overlap between the retaining gubbins and the top of the C shape be enough to capture the carriage securely?

The carriage exists.

#2441 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:22 AM

This is the carriage standing on end inside the gunwhales:

Attached File  Carriage Width Inside Hull.jpg   707.34K   15 downloads

There is .25" between the inside of the hull and where the carriage fits.

Chris made the carriage so don't assume I have skills.

#2442 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:25 AM

This is another picture of the carriage:

Attached File  Underside of Carriage.jpg   650.36K   18 downloads

#2443 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

This is how the gooseneck and mast receptacle turned out:

Attached File  Gooseneck and Mast Receptacle.jpg   650.56K   23 downloads

The white part is delrin and fits inside the mast. The square aluminum tube transmits any rotational torque from the mast into the mast stump via the cross bolt below the top half of the gooseneck.

#2444 IC Nutter

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:41 AM

After looking at the rail, I realized that maybe this one tube can be split into two C shapes that would retain the carriage SHC style. My question is will .15" of overlap between the retaining gubbins and the top of the C shape be enough to capture the carriage securely.


I think that would depend on how stiff the hull is where the gunwhales are. Is your deck a significant distance below the gunwhales? If it is you may get sideways flex in the topside panels. When the plank hits the water at speed you get a big racking moment which will tend to spread out the carriage rails so the the two diagonally opposite corners of the carriage will come out of the rails if they are an open C shape. I would be inclined to stick with the closed U shape.

#2445 El Crapitano

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:48 AM

The deck will attach to the underside of the carriage rails.

#2446 TalonF4U

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:28 AM

Looking good, El Crap!

Fresh regatta report from the Richmond YC Big Dinghy regatta up on international-canoe-usa.org

Once you finish her, come race with us!

#2447 IC Nutter

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:54 AM

The deck will attach to the underside of the carriage rails.


Should be OK with the open C then, if it's a neat fit. The other thing to watch is that you have enough bearing area with the inserts. I'd make them the full length of the carriage rather than just at the corners. This is just to spread the load along the track to minimise deflection of the flanges of the C.

#2448 El Crapitano

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

Would a Laser drain plug on my transom be subject to the hull dimensional rules? It could be recessed, just a bit more work.



#2449 Steve Clark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

Drain plug is not measured.
Unless it is a foot long and fairs into the hull,then we would get upset.
SHC

#2450 Del Olsen

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:48 PM

Some years ago Erich Chase gave up on the commercial plugs as they tend to sprout legs and be on a hike when you want to go sailing. So he found some 1/4-20 nylon machine screws from the local hardware store for the perfect lo-tec lo-cost replacement.
If you haven't glued the transom panels to your Maas Machine put a little extra filler in the lowest corner near the centerline and mark the location on the outside. then drill a hole and tap with a 1/-4-20 slide an 'o'ring on the plastic machine bolt insert and voila, done.
The drawback is if you didn't reach the goal of building a watertight hull it'll take a bit longer drain thru the smaller hole.
Great work.

#2451 Phil S

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:30 AM

Re lost Bungs: The cleaverest idea I have seen is from Greg Wise, Moth and IC sailor from Sth AUS. He uses coke bottle tops. He glues the top of a plastic coke bottle into his transom, and can find plenty of new caps on any beach anywhere in the world.

#2452 JimC

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

He glues the top of a plastic coke bottle into his transom,

That's depressingly brilliant... brilliant because it ill work, and depressing because there's enough litter for it to work!

#2453 sa_moth

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

He glues the top of a plastic coke bottle into his transom,

That's depressingly brilliant... brilliant because it ill work, and depressing because there's enough litter for it to work!


And when I'm feeling a little 'crazy', I'll change from a Coke bottle top to a Pepsi one, and then back again!

#2454 Ncik

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:36 AM


He glues the top of a plastic coke bottle into his transom,

That's depressingly brilliant... brilliant because it ill work, and depressing because there's enough litter for it to work!


And when I'm feeling a little 'crazy', I'll change from a Coke bottle top to a Pepsi one, and then back again!


woah :o

#2455 Amati

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:00 AM

Mk 12






anyway, more fiddling with non toxic glue in search of light structures

Attached Files



#2456 Amati

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:22 AM

Attached File  photo (2).JPG   38.31K   99 downloads

#2457 Amati

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:15 AM

Hemlock, 4mm okume, Titebond 3, no screws or nails. I'm afraid it (hemlock) will splinter. Is there any wood that is straight? So far, the framework looks like it will weigh 10-15 lbs. It's a lot less hassle and $$$ to use Indonesian 'marine ply'. Not as light as Joubert, but I don't need to have it sent overland freight. CLC Joubert nice though, but with shipping pricey. CLC Cypress ( for chine logs, shear clamps etc.) started doing curly cues when it experienced our low humidity here. Using a Pratt Truss ( well, it will be a Pratt truss some of the time) made from hemlock struts as a strong back, in lieu of plywood, which i have discovered weighs a lot, what with my preference for end butting plywood sheets.

Will be using marine spar varnish for sealing, finish on hull.

Rather monolithic compared to some of the projects I've seen here.

Anyway, foil ordered from Phil's foils, tracks etc. will be ordered soon, sail, mast and boom here. Bruce Peterson down at the Gorge a big help there. Getting a bit stoked.

Oh, 3" rocker.

Paul

#2458 c maas

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:54 AM

Cool Paul.

You can find vg fir that's as light as sitka spruce, straight and strong. Western red cedar is great if you want more glue surface for the same weight.

Keep us posted.

#2459 Amati

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:59 AM

Thanks Chris. This is the most intense fun Ive had outside of a recording studio.

#2460 Amati

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:12 AM

Must admit Ive got the next iteration in my head already. Any good outlets for vg or Western red cedar on the wet side of the state? 17.5' lengths available?

Using Hemlock because it's available niceley milled, with slightly rounded edges, so 'print through' is less of a problem. At least that's my theory.....

#2461 WCB

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

Must admit Ive got the next iteration in my head already. Any good outlets for vg or Western red cedar on the wet side of the state? 17.5' lengths available?

Using Hemlock because it's available niceley milled, with slightly rounded edges, so 'print through' is less of a problem. At least that's my theory.....


Amati,

Try these guys: http://macbeath.com/

I just picked up some teak from them a week ago.

#2462 c maas

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:58 AM


Must admit Ive got the next iteration in my head already. Any good outlets for vg or Western red cedar on the wet side of the state? 17.5' lengths available?

Using Hemlock because it's available niceley milled, with slightly rounded edges, so 'print through' is less of a problem. At least that's my theory.....


Amati,

Try these guys: http://macbeath.com/

I just picked up some teak from them a week ago.



Or maybe Compton Lumber in Seattle.

#2463 Amati

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:31 AM

Thanks guys.

#2464 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:36 AM

Raised the mast a second time, this time with real shrouds. They appear to be about the right length:

Attached File  DSCF1881.JPG   775.5K   59 downloads

I learned that I need to learn how to rig up without a deck and a son handy.

I also learned that I don't know how to install full length battens. All of the full batten sails I've owned had camber inducers.

#2465 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:43 AM

The dance floor is trimmed to the hull but not for the mast hog so its not slid all the way in, and the carriage rails aren't clamped in place either:

Attached File  DSCF1883.JPG   719.66K   62 downloads

I was planning to tab in the dance floor but looking at the forward end where it meets the hull contour its going to be a trick to preinstall the tabbing underneath. Maybe globs of bog instead?

#2466 Amati

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:49 AM

Minimalist. ;)

#2467 El Crapitano

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:56 AM

I've lost sleep over installing a limber hole in the main bulkhead. Drill won't fit. To install backing plugs for jib cleats, I spun a router bit by hand because there was no access for a power tool. Not fun. Ended up grinding down a beat oscillating tool blade to make it narrower. Five minutes later the limber hole was there. I filled it with bog and pushed a bic pen through the hole. Done once the epoxy cured and the pen came out. I can sleep now.

Attached File  DSCF1884.JPG   683.2K   15 downloads

#2468 c maas

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:13 AM

The dance floor is trimmed to the hull but not for the mast hog so its not slid all the way in, and the carriage rails aren't clamped in place either:

Attached File  DSCF1883.JPG   719.66K   62 downloads

I was planning to tab in the dance floor but looking at the forward end where it meets the hull contour its going to be a trick to preinstall the tabbing underneath. Maybe globs of bog instead?



Gobs of bog, or a precisely applied bead, does the trick.

#2469 El Crapitano

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:48 AM

The plan was to install the dance floor today, but the centerboard trunk didn't pass the leak test. I forgot to fillet the forward edge. :blink:

This shows the trunk along with the Gybe Lock mechanism. The Gybe Lock needs a bit of finishing. The mast stub step isn't in position. The hardware is for the vang and cunningham attachment.


Attached File  Centerboard Trunk and Gybe Lock.jpg   710.96K   69 downloads

#2470 El Crapitano

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:54 AM

This is the hull with the trunk and stringer in place.

Attached File  Last Pic before Deck Installation.jpg   657.04K   69 downloads

#2471 El Crapitano

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:56 AM

There's a rib on each side that will support the underside of the deck. This is a closeup of it.

Attached File  Closeup of Carriage Rail above Tab.jpg   714.42K   33 downloads

#2472 Willy Clark

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:09 AM

Results from Ottawa
1st John Kells
2nd Willy Clark
3rd David Clark
4th Steve Clark

Made the trip to Ottawa for the 9th annual Skiff Grand Prix for the first time in a couple years. Got some extremely variable if not down right strange conditions, but managed to get some good racing in when we were able to figure out what was going on. Pretty flukey stuff but John was on the right side more than the rest of us. Was great to see Paterson, Norm, Matt D, Price Club, and the other damn Canadians again. Wish Sorta could have gotten out there, but that didn't stop it from being a good event. Once again big thanks to Matt for putting on such a good regatta in trying conditions.

Dad made a few more mods to Kaito including moving the forestay down the mast a little which seems to have really helped. Still can't point for shit but feeling pretty fast otherwise as long as the water is flat. Really want to build a new boat but the fact that I was winning each race in Alabama every time the boat broke is stalling me. However might be best for the fleet to move the boat and get someone else a new ride.

This is my first post on this site in a long time. I've sort of been caught up elsewhere, and while I'm still sailing, the Canoe has not been in the front of my mind lately and I've been neglecting my duties as newsletter editor. However that is about to change. Next issue should be out soon. Anyone with anything for the newsletter, build stories, regatta reports, anything, please send me your stuff. I'm about to start putting a new one together.

Would like to get a lot of people to Sugar this year. That's always where our best racing seems to happen, though we may be without Tommy this year so I'm unsure how we can possibly hope to survive.

Hope everyone is well. Like I said I've been out of the loop for a while but worlds are on the way. Time to ramp it up.

Willy

#2473 Willy Clark

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:19 AM

I also need more gossip for the rumor mill. Hit me up!

Willy

#2474 ortegakid

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:16 PM

Please keep us informed, as a newbie, really enjoyed reading the newsletter for info, and would love to sail a new design someday.

#2475 Willy Clark

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:42 PM

Sugar Island Annual Encampment is fast approaching. Thus far we have 5 boats on board. Me, Dave, Eli, John and Bill are all planning on making the trek. Wondering who else is interested.

Dates:
Sunday, July 22nd, - Around the Island Race
Monday, July 23rd, - Butler Trophy, 1st Race of Championship Series
Tuesday, July 24th, - Crane Trophy, 2nd Race of Championship Series
Wednesday, July 25th, - Mermaid Trophy, 3rd race of Championship Series
Thursday, Lay Day
Friday, July 26th, - 3 race mini-series.

This year will also be the first year of the in which Steve Lysak Trophy for the winer of the "Hangover" Series will be awarded. Hope to see people there.

Best,
Willy

#2476 John K

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:12 PM

Sugar Island Annual Encampment is fast approaching. Thus far we have 5 boats on board. Me, Dave, Eli, John and Bill are all planning on making the trek. Wondering who else is interested.

Dates:
Sunday, July 22nd, - Around the Island Race
Monday, July 23rd, - Butler Trophy, 1st Race of Championship Series
Tuesday, July 24th, - Crane Trophy, 2nd Race of Championship Series
Wednesday, July 25th, - Mermaid Trophy, 3rd race of Championship Series
Thursday, Lay Day
Friday, July 26th, - 3 race mini-series.

This year will also be the first year of the in which Steve Lysak Trophy for the winer of the "Hangover" Series will be awarded. Hope to see people there.

Best,
Willy


I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK

#2477 Willy Clark

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:07 PM

That'd be perfect. No better place to have your first sail.


Sugar Island Annual Encampment is fast approaching. Thus far we have 5 boats on board. Me, Dave, Eli, John and Bill are all planning on making the trek. Wondering who else is interested.

Dates:
Sunday, July 22nd, - Around the Island Race
Monday, July 23rd, - Butler Trophy, 1st Race of Championship Series
Tuesday, July 24th, - Crane Trophy, 2nd Race of Championship Series
Wednesday, July 25th, - Mermaid Trophy, 3rd race of Championship Series
Thursday, Lay Day
Friday, July 26th, - 3 race mini-series.

This year will also be the first year of the in which Steve Lysak Trophy for the winer of the "Hangover" Series will be awarded. Hope to see people there.

Best,
Willy


I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK



#2478 El Crapitano

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK


I hope to make it, but it won't be easy. Some parts have to be finished before I hit the road - like the roof rack, rudder cassette and tiller extension. Meanwhile, another batch of questions:

1. If anyone with a stock Kinder jib could measure the batten lengths, that would be really helpful. Somehow I have misplaced my jib battens, but not my main battens.
2. I have not one, but two, 1/4" drain holes. Easy to install, cheap and I have 100 spare plugs for $5. I tried to leak check my hull yesterday using vacuum pressure and sudsy water. I thought I was in my element from lots of experience finding leaks in bike tires. Anyway, the only leak I found was the unpressurized drain hole. It produced a solid bubble but it is a gaping hole. Has anyone else with small drain holes successfully leak checked?
3. Any tips for rolltipping a garage paint job? I have all the Awlgrip products and the Awlgrip directions.
4. Should I use foam non-skid on the outside of the gunwhales or salt in the paint? I have foam, and lots of it, on the dance floor. Padding seems like a good idea.
5. Do I put limber holes in my carriage rails?
6. I broke a tap after the deck went on and the tip rattles around in the hull. I guess I need to drill a hole and pull it out with a magnet on a string. Any better ideas?

Thanks

#2479 atg

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

Sugar island is great but it is no place to go for a maiden sail. Trust me on this.

Salt works well.

My advice on awlgrip would be do the prep and pay someone to shoot it. Or roll test panels until you are happy. Or just prime it and declare victory for now.

Big limber holes are the ticket when it comes to getting random items out of the hull (and not getting plugged up).

I have only built one hull so I may not know what I am on about.

Congrats on nearly being there.

Karl

#2480 luminary

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:39 PM

BE CAREFUL...

I almost turned a laser into a beachball by pressurizing it using a vacuum cleaner. I was totally unprepared for how destructive that little test was.

:)

l



I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK


I hope to make it, but it won't be easy. Some parts have to be finished before I hit the road - like the roof rack, rudder cassette and tiller extension. Meanwhile, another batch of questions:

1. If anyone with a stock Kinder jib could measure the batten lengths, that would be really helpful. Somehow I have misplaced my jib battens, but not my main battens.
2. I have not one, but two, 1/4" drain holes. Easy to install, cheap and I have 100 spare plugs for $5. I tried to leak check my hull yesterday using vacuum pressure and sudsy water. I thought I was in my element from lots of experience finding leaks in bike tires. Anyway, the only leak I found was the unpressurized drain hole. It produced a solid bubble but it is a gaping hole. Has anyone else with small drain holes successfully leak checked?
3. Any tips for rolltipping a garage paint job? I have all the Awlgrip products and the Awlgrip directions.
4. Should I use foam non-skid on the outside of the gunwhales or salt in the paint? I have foam, and lots of it, on the dance floor. Padding seems like a good idea.
5. Do I put limber holes in my carriage rails?
6. I broke a tap after the deck went on and the tip rattles around in the hull. I guess I need to drill a hole and pull it out with a magnet on a string. Any better ideas?

Thanks





#2481 Phil S

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:59 AM

Test your leakage first with a 1/4in plastic hose presurised with your mouth. Seal up the drains with BluTac or some other goey stuff which cleans off easilly. If you can not get back pressure by mouth you have a serious leak and are then safe to use some mechanical means. Too much pressure will destroy the boat, loosen all the bulkheads and potentially crack some pannels or joints, avoid. A Vacuum cleaner on blow mode is safer than a compressor. You can tape you 1/4in plastic to the vac hose end. A bucket of soapy water and a big sloppy plastic sponge will soon find the bubbles. Once you glue up the big ones go back to the mouth method to find the little annoying ones.

#2482 ICU2

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:30 AM

I've used a vacuum cleaner on "blow" mode without a problem. I use some rags to seal the inspection hatch its usually enough to find the leaks without it building up so much pressure it causes damage.

ICU2




#2483 Daniel Holman

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:30 AM

Mouth is good I think 20 lungfuls is the go. Either bang the bung back in v quick, or vacuum tacky tape is good.
If the indignity of appearing to be giving your boat a rim job in a public place is too great, I've found using a kite pump pretty good, nozzle tacky taped in place (regarding indignity - I am not a kiter, I borrowed the pump)
Anyhow, on a return pump (pumps on both strokes) 3 strokes ( 2 down one up) seemed about right on an i14.
4 strokes and she started groaning and creaking in protest.
Dan

#2484 Scarecrow

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

Best system i've seen for pressurizing a hull for leak testing is a balloon blown up and fitted to a tube in the bung hole. More than enough pressure, a built in reservoir and no risk of too much pressure.

#2485 AngloSteve

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:04 AM


I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK


I hope to make it, but it won't be easy. Some parts have to be finished before I hit the road - like the roof rack, rudder cassette and tiller extension. Meanwhile, another batch of questions:

1. If anyone with a stock Kinder jib could measure the batten lengths, that would be really helpful. Somehow I have misplaced my jib battens, but not my main battens.
2. I have not one, but two, 1/4" drain holes. Easy to install, cheap and I have 100 spare plugs for $5. I tried to leak check my hull yesterday using vacuum pressure and sudsy water. I thought I was in my element from lots of experience finding leaks in bike tires. Anyway, the only leak I found was the unpressurized drain hole. It produced a solid bubble but it is a gaping hole. Has anyone else with small drain holes successfully leak checked?
3. Any tips for rolltipping a garage paint job? I have all the Awlgrip products and the Awlgrip directions.
4. Should I use foam non-skid on the outside of the gunwhales or salt in the paint? I have foam, and lots of it, on the dance floor. Padding seems like a good idea.
5. Do I put limber holes in my carriage rails?
6. I broke a tap after the deck went on and the tip rattles around in the hull. I guess I need to drill a hole and pull it out with a magnet on a string. Any better ideas?

Thanks


El Crap,

I used AWLGRIP on my first AC and I have to say it gives a brilliant finish and is as hard as nails. I rolled it and then tipped it with a fine foam brush and the finish was excellent. Biggest issue is making sure there is no dust so a good clean of the area your working in before hand is essential and also using tacky rags on the surface picks up any residual bits. Roll out well and then let is settle for a few minutes where the air bubbles rise to the surface and then run your foam brush lightly over the surface.

There is a few issues with the acrylic AWLGRIP however which I only discovered later;

1. It is only intended for above water use. This is fine but if you leave your boat with its undercover on for any length of time and it stays wet, the water can get under the paint and blister especially where the boat rests on the trailer .
2. You can't rub it down as the colour rises through the surface and sits under the final finish. Anything more than a light polish dulls the surface and you can't get it back to the ultra gloss. This doesn't seem to apply to the clear gloss which is brilliant stuff.
3. The fumes are nasty. Make sure you use a good quality mask with charcoal filter. If you breath the fumes for more than a few minutes you will be a sick as a dog - done that, not nice.

Steve C (UK)

#2486 El Crapitano

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:02 PM

El Crap,

I used AWLGRIP on my first AC and I have to say it gives a brilliant finish and is as hard as nails. I rolled it and then tipped it with a fine foam brush and the finish was excellent. Biggest issue is making sure there is no dust so a good clean of the area your working in before hand is essential and also using tacky rags on the surface picks up any residual bits. Roll out well and then let is settle for a few minutes where the air bubbles rise to the surface and then run your foam brush lightly over the surface.

There is a few issues with the acrylic AWLGRIP however which I only discovered later;

1. It is only intended for above water use. This is fine but if you leave your boat with its undercover on for any length of time and it stays wet, the water can get under the paint and blister especially where the boat rests on the trailer .
2. You can't rub it down as the colour rises through the surface and sits under the final finish. Anything more than a light polish dulls the surface and you can't get it back to the ultra gloss. This doesn't seem to apply to the clear gloss which is brilliant stuff.
3. The fumes are nasty. Make sure you use a good quality mask with charcoal filter. If you breath the fumes for more than a few minutes you will be a sick as a dog - done that, not nice.

Steve C (UK)


Thanks for the response AngloSteveClark.

I should be ok on count #1. I'm leaving below the waterline bare primer. The paint is for topsides and cockpit. I have no undercover at this point. The boat will live in my garage and basement, protected from sun and the elements.

My garage is relatively dust free and will not be used for cars for the duration of the paint process, including drying. My central vacuum has an port in the garage so I can vacuum without putting dust into the air. Temperature is a concern though. Forecast says 95F tomorrow (did I move to Oz?) which is above Awlgrips' maximum application temperature. The garage will invariably be hotter than the outside.

Yesterday's dumb thing I did was to epoxy the rudder and cassette together. The epoxy was in green state when I tested the steering and then began a frantic forensic investigation. All is well now, no damaged parts and the rudder stock turns smoothly now. I'm getting too much practice unbonding parts. When I attached the bearings to the rudder stock I bonded the alignment tool that Chris provided to the bearings even though the tool explicitly said do not bond to the bearings in bold letters. Sometimes I think Homer Simpson follows directions better than me.

#2487 Del Olsen

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:35 AM

Hey El.
fFrom your posted pix I seem to recall you are using the imbeded square carbon tube with some sort of roller/slider on the carridge. I haven't seen anyone drill thru the rail, most all the Super String Theory canoes I've seen just let the water flow out the open aft end. However you will need a stop to prevent the thing from running off the rails and or jamming the tiller!


I am trying to encourage El Crapitano to launch his new ride in the crystal clear waters of the St. Lawrence....
Even if he has to finish it after he arrives. I promised the support of the island natives is getting his boat finished.

JK


I hope to make it, but it won't be easy. Some parts have to be finished before I hit the road - like the roof rack, rudder cassette and tiller extension. Meanwhile, another batch of questions:

1. If anyone with a stock Kinder jib could measure the batten lengths, that would be really helpful. Somehow I have misplaced my jib battens, but not my main battens.
2. I have not one, but two, 1/4" drain holes. Easy to install, cheap and I have 100 spare plugs for $5. I tried to leak check my hull yesterday using vacuum pressure and sudsy water. I thought I was in my element from lots of experience finding leaks in bike tires. Anyway, the only leak I found was the unpressurized drain hole. It produced a solid bubble but it is a gaping hole. Has anyone else with small drain holes successfully leak checked?
3. Any tips for rolltipping a garage paint job? I have all the Awlgrip products and the Awlgrip directions.
4. Should I use foam non-skid on the outside of the gunwhales or salt in the paint? I have foam, and lots of it, on the dance floor. Padding seems like a good idea.
5. Do I put limber holes in my carriage rails?
6. I broke a tap after the deck went on and the tip rattles around in the hull. I guess I need to drill a hole and pull it out with a magnet on a string. Any better ideas?

Thanks



#2488 El Crapitano

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:12 PM

Hey El.
fFrom your posted pix I seem to recall you are using the imbeded square carbon tube with some sort of roller/slider on the carridge. I haven't seen anyone drill thru the rail, most all the Super String Theory canoes I've seen just let the water flow out the open aft end. However you will need a stop to prevent the thing from running off the rails and or jamming the tiller!


I do have the square carbon tubes, and use sliders on the carriage. The stops I fabricated seal the aft end of the tubes. I can fix that, but holes in the tubes may be more effective. I knew that I didn't want the carriage to slide off the back of the boat, but hadn't considered jamming the tiller, hmm. It may not be a problem but I better check.

#2489 Del Olsen

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:39 PM

One solution is to fit a piece of 1/4" G-10 to the inside of the tube track with another shaped piece on the top. Drill a clearance hole in the top , tap the bottom/inside piece and use a RH machine screw as a clamp-stop through the slot . Works everytime I've done it. It opens up the track so the H20 flows out .
Also it you plan to sail withour a wetsuit, at least some of the time, I'd put the foam on the gunwale .
Yea, you have to replace it every 2 or 3 years but it's less painful than growing skin.
Cheers]


Hey El.
fFrom your posted pix I seem to recall you are using the imbeded square carbon tube with some sort of roller/slider on the carridge. I haven't seen anyone drill thru the rail, most all the Super String Theory canoes I've seen just let the water flow out the open aft end. However you will need a stop to prevent the thing from running off the rails and or jamming the tiller!


I do have the square carbon tubes, and use sliders on the carriage. The stops I fabricated seal the aft end of the tubes. I can fix that, but holes in the tubes may be more effective. I knew that I didn't want the carriage to slide off the back of the boat, but hadn't considered jamming the tiller, hmm. It may not be a problem but I better check.



#2490 bruno

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:38 AM

gnarly nonskid is bgnarly, i like foam more.
i like corona or redtree? brushes more than foam, foam rollers work for awlgrip, not for 545, use fine nap minis. fumes suck, i am just getting over a good toxing, $3-400 air supply sytems on ebay next time i spray. tip vertically, sand between coats, by the time you get 3-4 coats down you will have it figured out. use side lighting indoors, take your time and work cleanly and carefully but fast enough to brush out the product, avoid dry edges, i dont bother to tip primer when its hot asnitmjust kicks so fast, go for build up and sand out. if in doubt, mask, blue or resin resist tape
What about standing you canoe verticlly and using a flex magent probe through the drain holes?

#2491 Willy Clark

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:42 AM

Just back from Sugar Island.
Results:

Butler Trophy - Willy Clark
Crane Trophy - David Clark
Mermaid Trophy - John Kells
American Canoe Championship Series - David Clark
Around the Island Race - Not Sailed

Weather really wasn't very cooperative. Did things I've never seen happen at Sugar. John says the same and he's been going there a lot longer. As a result we really didn't get all the sailing in that we wanted to, but we still got almost all the races done anyway. Still a super special place and David and I very much enjoyed our time there. It's still hard to find a better place for canoe sailing. Hope to get more boats up there next year. It really is worth it.

best,
Willy

#2492 MonkeyDC308

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

Was it too strong or too light or just too flukey? We are just about to have our Euros down in Plymouth (starts Saturday) weather there looks OK on the forcast, wind Guru seems to be as good as any forcast site, what is a good site to look at for the wind in San Fran? Where can I get historic weather info for the area we will be sailing on? I have done my usual exacting perparation for a major champs, I am moving house on Wedsnesday (come to think about it, its the second time since Germany). We should have a good collection of new rules boats there, i think about seven boats to 5 differant designs+ nethercottsa and about 17 AC's
Alistair

#2493 Willy Clark

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:51 PM

Was it too strong or too light or just too flukey? We are just about to have our Euros down in Plymouth (starts Saturday) weather there looks OK on the forcast, wind Guru seems to be as good as any forcast site, what is a good site to look at for the wind in San Fran? Where can I get historic weather info for the area we will be sailing on? I have done my usual exacting perparation for a major champs, I am moving house on Wedsnesday (come to think about it, its the second time since Germany). We should have a good collection of new rules boats there, i think about seven boats to 5 differant designs+ nethercottsa and about 17 AC's
Alistair



Yes, too strong, too light, too flukey.

Sugar Island is known for having some of the most consistent conditions around. It generally blows somewhere between 10 to 18 right down the St. Lawrence every single day. This year it positively nuked right down the seaway for the first two days. Both days we went out, saw how hard it was really blowing, got clobbered, and scampered back to New York Bay hoping for better luck the next day. Then Tuesday dawned with the wind out of the North East. We've seen it do that before and it usually dies then swings around to the South West and gives us a nice afternoon breeze. Instead it built all day until it was blowing 25-30 right into the harbor. Stayed like that until the sun went down. Very weird. Wednesday was nice. 8-12 right down the seaway. Got in some nice racing though the breeze didn't build like I would have liked. Then the next two days it did some weird Nor'East thing again. We were able to get all the races off except the Around the Island since it would have been impossible with these conditions. John's been going to Sugar since the early 90s and he said he'd never seen it do this stuff. Hoping for better luck next time. You can typically count on Sugar giving you beautiful breeze weather and water. One of the attractions of Sugar Island is that you get a ton of sailing in. Unfortunately that just didn't happen this year for some reason. Hey, that's sailing. Still very fun though. If you like to camp there really isn't a better place to do it.

Best,
Willy

#2494 El Crapitano

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:51 PM

While a coat of paint dries, here is the tale of my rudder, which is actually a crudder since I am Crapitano.

My original crudder design could kick up in shallow water. I frequent Pleasant Bay in Cape Cod (MA) and the launch areas are shallow out a hundred feet or more so a kickup crudder could be convenient. I sketched out a starting design:

Attached File  Crudder.PNG   27.33K   10 downloads

Eventually I vetoed the original crudder due to complexity. In the meantime I had actually seen and sailed an IC. A rudder in a cassette is simple and sturdy and I refocused on a cassette style crudder. Being Crapitano I couldn't do it like a normal person. I can have real difficulties with normal, just can't grasp it at times. I read the rules and thought and thought. I wanted the ability to convert to a kickup rudder later, so the breach in the hull for the rudder would have to be at the stern. I wanted an endplate for the rudder. I thought, but have learned that this is likely incorrect, that there is a new rules IC with a kickup rudder that is transom hung. I read the rules one more time, focusing on the hull measurement rule.

My hull breach for the crudder looks like:

Attached File  Crudder Breach.PNG   5.49K   10 downloads

And the assembly looks like:

Attached File  Crudder Assembly.PNG   10.93K   10 downloads

I discussed this with John Kells and it appears that the crudder goes places that no IC has gone before.

Given that the rules state that canoe length is measured to the aft of the hull unless the rudder hardware/fittings are wider than 50 mm (the crudder is less than 50 mm), the crudder is not measured. Seems legit to me, but there is the caveat in the rules about the the spirit of the rules. I like the crudder. It is built and seems to work. The cassette barely overhangs the rudder itself fore and aft and, apart from the small pinch in the middle, mimics the other IC rudder and cassettes I have seen.

#2495 eliboat

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:27 PM

CHEATER!!!! CHEATER!!!!! You're as bad as the Chinese badminton team.

#2496 ortegakid

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

Oh dats rich! I like it el crap!

#2497 John K

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

While a coat of paint dries, here is the tale of my rudder, which is actually a crudder since I am Crapitano.

My original crudder design could kick up in shallow water. I frequent Pleasant Bay in Cape Cod (MA) and the launch areas are shallow out a hundred feet or more so a kickup crudder could be convenient. I sketched out a starting design:

Attached File  Crudder.PNG   27.33K   10 downloads

Eventually I vetoed the original crudder due to complexity. In the meantime I had actually seen and sailed an IC. A rudder in a cassette is simple and sturdy and I refocused on a cassette style crudder. Being Crapitano I couldn't do it like a normal person. I can have real difficulties with normal, just can't grasp it at times. I read the rules and thought and thought. I wanted the ability to convert to a kickup rudder later, so the breach in the hull for the rudder would have to be at the stern. I wanted an endplate for the rudder. I thought, but have learned that this is likely incorrect, that there is a new rules IC with a kickup rudder that is transom hung. I read the rules one more time, focusing on the hull measurement rule.

My hull breach for the crudder looks like:

Attached File  Crudder Breach.PNG   5.49K   10 downloads

And the assembly looks like:

Attached File  Crudder Assembly.PNG   10.93K   10 downloads

I discussed this with John Kells and it appears that the crudder goes places that no IC has gone before.

Given that the rules state that canoe length is measured to the aft of the hull unless the rudder hardware/fittings are wider than 50 mm (the crudder is less than 50 mm), the crudder is not measured. Seems legit to me, but there is the caveat in the rules about the the spirit of the rules. I like the crudder. It is built and seems to work. The cassette barely overhangs the rudder itself fore and aft and, apart from the small pinch in the middle, mimics the other IC rudder and cassettes I have seen.


El Crap,

Now that a have had a chance to see what you are talking about; If the rudder & associated "Fittings / Hardware" are not part of the hull so as to comply with the maximum length, do you comply with rule 5 b that define the shape of the ends of the hull?

From the class rules:



5 b The projection on to a horizontal plane of the line of greatest beam shall be a continuous curve, and at bow and stern shall lie inside lines which are at 45 to the center-line and which pass through the center line not more than 25mm beyond the extremities.



Best

JK



#2498 El Crapitano

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:52 PM

El Crap,

Now that a have had a chance to see what you are talking about; If the rudder & associated "Fittings / Hardware" are not part of the hull so as to comply with the maximum length, do you comply with rule 5 b that define the shape of the ends of the hull?

From the class rules:



5 b The projection on to a horizontal plane of the line of greatest beam shall be a continuous curve, and at bow and stern shall lie inside lines which are at 45 to the center-line and which pass through the center line not more than 25mm beyond the extremities.



Best

JK




The hull complies with 5 b (5 b is part of the rules section titled Hull). In the transom area nowhere did I alter the the line of greatest beam of the hull from how Chris built it. The breach in the hull that the crudder slides into is not "greatest beam" so the concave and convex requirements are not applicable.

FYI, I did modify the line of greatest beam at the radii where the 45 degree lines from the stern transition forward. The modification was to increase the radii slightly to ensure compliance with the 60mm convex radius rule.


The third coat of primer went on last night. Being a rookie, painting seems to involve more sanding than painting and maybe more sweating too as the boat has been moved from the cool basement into the hot garage. One more sanding session and the topcoat goes on.

Made the tiller extension yesterday, so no more doo dad parts to make, outside of a suitable roof rack setup.

#2499 John K

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

Attached File  rule 5b_20120807070434.pdf   167.2K   12 downloads


El Crap,

Now that a have had a chance to see what you are talking about; If the rudder & associated "Fittings / Hardware" are not part of the hull so as to comply with the maximum length, do you comply with rule 5 b that define the shape of the ends of the hull?

From the class rules:



5 b The projection on to a horizontal plane of the line of greatest beam shall be a continuous curve, and at bow and stern shall lie inside lines which are at 45 to the center-line and which pass through the center line not more than 25mm beyond the extremities.



Best

JK




The hull complies with 5 b (5 b is part of the rules section titled Hull). In the transom area nowhere did I alter the the line of greatest beam of the hull from how Chris built it. The breach in the hull that the crudder slides into is not "greatest beam" so the concave and convex requirements are not applicable.

FYI, I did modify the line of greatest beam at the radii where the 45 degree lines from the stern transition forward. The modification was to increase the radii slightly to ensure compliance with the 60mm convex radius rule.


The third coat of primer went on last night. Being a rookie, painting seems to involve more sanding than painting and maybe more sweating too as the boat has been moved from the cool basement into the hot garage. One more sanding session and the topcoat goes on.

Made the tiller extension yesterday, so no more doo dad parts to make, outside of a suitable roof rack setup.


El Crapitano,

The concern that I have with Rule 5b is the last sentence that defines the shape of the ends of the hull. On the attached sketch, the top illustration shows the intent of the rule, and the bottom illustration shows where there may be a problem.

Feel free to give me a call

Best

John

#2500 RogerIC

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:44 PM

Attached File  rule 5b_20120807070434.pdf   167.2K   12 downloads



El Crap,

Now that a have had a chance to see what you are talking about; If the rudder & associated "Fittings / Hardware" are not part of the hull so as to comply with the maximum length, do you comply with rule 5 b that define the shape of the ends of the hull?

From the class rules:



5 b The projection on to a horizontal plane of the line of greatest beam shall be a continuous curve, and at bow and stern shall lie inside lines which are at 45 to the center-line and which pass through the center line not more than 25mm beyond the extremities.



Best

JK




The hull complies with 5 b (5 b is part of the rules section titled Hull). In the transom area nowhere did I alter the the line of greatest beam of the hull from how Chris built it. The breach in the hull that the crudder slides into is not "greatest beam" so the concave and convex requirements are not applicable.

FYI, I did modify the line of greatest beam at the radii where the 45 degree lines from the stern transition forward. The modification was to increase the radii slightly to ensure compliance with the 60mm convex radius rule.


The third coat of primer went on last night. Being a rookie, painting seems to involve more sanding than painting and maybe more sweating too as the boat has been moved from the cool basement into the hot garage. One more sanding session and the topcoat goes on.

Made the tiller extension yesterday, so no more doo dad parts to make, outside of a suitable roof rack setup.


El Crapitano,

The concern that I have with Rule 5b is the last sentence that defines the shape of the ends of the hull. On the attached sketch, the top illustration shows the intent of the rule, and the bottom illustration shows where there may be a problem.

Feel free to give me a call

Best

John


John,

this concerns will also apply to any Chris Maas hull which have the slot for the rudder cassette opened to the end of hull. The only difference to El Craps crudder i see is that Chris rudder cassettes are not extending the hull when they are fixed in the slot. And as far as i know all Chris Maas boats did measure without problems...

Roger




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