[Bob Perry]

Maybe as suggested we should move our ideas on this design project over to its own thread.

[Wess]

Some of us have different ideas of "classic."

Sleeps 4, one double, two singles which are good sea berths.
Sprit boat.
SA/loads that a woman (alone) can manage and reef.
Potential for 20 knots of boat speed under sail.
Draws less than 3 feet, board up.
Trailerable.
Minimal systems.
PRETTY.

Come on, you can do it. You know how. One up Ian. Better Chris. Show us something really cool. How about a classic M********

[A mear Paps]

Well I would have to put in a vote for the Peterson 44, Savage build not the Taiwan job. Will have to hunt for some images.

[Bob Perry]

I think we need some limiting parameters.
What I had in mind was a boat that recreated the look of the FIDELIO on the other thread. Fixed keel, moderate draft, moderate displacement and the type of boat that is easy to sail. Cut out this 20 knot shit. This will be a beer and sandwhich kind of boat. But I'm not fixed in this. I'll go where the group want to go as long as it is one direction.

[jimbot]

I would like the bow and stern overhangs close to proportional. For some reason, a buff bow and a long counter look totally out of whack to my eye.

[Wess]

Bob Perry, on Feb 7 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

Cut out this 20 knot shit.

Sigh...

Sucks to be in the minority, but why do pretty and slow, when you could do pretty and fast??

There are lots of folks doing pretty/classic monhull yachts of all sizes these days.

Show me what you can do with a multi!

Channel Dick, Chris and Ian and draw a pretty fast multi.

Oh well, suspect that request is DOA. :(

[sailman]

Wess, on Feb 7 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

Sigh...

Sucks to be in the minority, but why do pretty and slow, when you could do pretty and fast??

There are lots of folks doing pretty/classic monhull yachts of all sizes these days.

Show me what you can do with a multi!

Channel Dick, Chris and Ian and draw a pretty fast multi.

Oh well, suspect that request is DOA. :(

Slow as in beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You want fast? Go visit Gunboat they sponsor here for a reason.

[briartrtpd..]

My vote would be easy to sail by a husband and wife team, smaller headsail size? if we go tiller it would need to be steerable by SWMBO when its blowing 25 and we are reefing, rigid boom vang. It would be nice if we could have the area forward of the main hatch clear enough that a soft dodger could be fitted.

[sailman]

Bob Perry, on Feb 7 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

I think we need some limiting parameters.
What I had in mind was a boat that recreated the look of the FIDELIO on the other thread. Fixed keel, moderate draft, moderate displacement and the type of boat that is easy to sail. Cut out this 20 knot shit. This will be a beer and sandwhich kind of boat. But I'm not fixed in this. I'll go where the group want to go as long as it is one direction.

I think that with the differences in purpose you would also have to sort out would be general purpose of the boat, i.e. passage making or coastal cruising. For my tastes a sea berth intrudes on the function of the main salon as a place to relax with family and friends when the weather outside is not condusive to enjoy the cockpit. Which brings me to my next point, as it relates to the purpose of the boat (passage making or coastal cruising) should the cockpit be open and roomy or small for sea keeping?

Just a few thoughts.

Will Museler

[Schnick]

My boat would be like the pilothouse boat that is in Yacht design according to Perry, can't remember the name but it was custom fro some people in the San Juan islands. Except with the transom off of Avanti and a frac rig. I could deal with the canoe transom if that would satisfy the 'classic' requirement.

[B.J. Porter]

Well, we could also back into this from the RIGHT direction.

The FT10M and the original Anarchy 30 stuff came about in the quest for a fun, fast, AFFORDABLE boat.

How many afforable, fun, family cruisers are there on the market today? Everything you see in the New Boat features in the sailing rags starts at what, 40 feet and a quarter of a Mil plus (except the BeneHuntaLinas)?

How about looking for something a family of four can spend a week on without murdering each other, get to some fun places (specify a range maybe - X miles on an eight hour sailing day??) and be both comfortable and independent at anchor, for something like $100-$125K FOB. Spare but not spartan, comfortable but not plush.

Anyone with an unlimited budget can come up with the "SA Floating Fuck Palace 50", and anyone who thinks crapping in a cedar bucket and eating ravioli out of a can is a fun way to spend a weekend can come up with the "SA Turbo Cruiser 30." Let's think of something that real people that like to sail but don't race much might actually want to buy and spend time on.

[sailman]

Schnick, on Feb 7 2008, 05:41 PM, said:

My boat would be like the pilothouse boat that is in Yacht design according to Perry, can't remember the name but it was custom fro some people in the San Juan islands. Except with the transom off of Avanti and a frac rig. I could deal with the canoe transom if that would satisfy the 'classic' requirement.

or one of Bob's Valient sterns! But I don't see how you would work that into an overhang.

[Bob Perry]

I hate to interject my own priorities here but I really think that "Floating Fuck Palace 50" has a nice ring to it.
Now if we can just come up with a decent logo.

[jimbot]

briartrtpd.., on Feb 7 2008, 02:35 PM, said:

My vote would be easy to sail by a husband and wife team, smaller headsail size? if we go tiller it would need to be steerable by SWMBO when its blowing 25 and we are reefing, rigid boom vang. It would be nice if we could have the area forward of the main hatch clear enough that a soft dodger could be fitted.

Skylights that you can raise.

[B.J. Porter]

Bob Perry, on Feb 7 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

I hate to interject my own priorities here but I really think that "Floating Fuck Palace 50" has a nice ring to it.
Now if we can just come up with a decent logo.

Good marketing is all about alliteration these days.

[CharlieCobra]

Skylights my ass, how about a butterfly hatch trimmed with mahogany?

[jimbot]

CharlieCobra, on Feb 7 2008, 02:55 PM, said:

Skylights my ass, how about a butterfly hatch trimmed with mahogany?

I think that's what I'm talking about. V shaped, both sides can raise?

[Bob Perry]

It's got to have a transom with traditional rake.
I favor a big cockpit. I was thinking more in line with Briar.
Moderate displacement so we can get some volume and stablity.
I hate trying to marry conservative classic ends with a moden underbody. You get neither fish nor fowl
We go all out for good looks and comfort or we go all out for speed.
Go all out for speed and you get a Melges 32. "Get that chute up Mom!"
I think this boat is more like, "I might put the chute up. I'll have another beer and think about it."

[jimbot]

Bob Perry, on Feb 7 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

It's got to have a transom with traditional rake.
I favor a big cockpit. I was thinking more in line with Briar.
Moderate displacement so we can get some volume and stablity.
I hate trying to marry conservative classic ends with a moden underbody. You get neither fish nor fowl
We go all out for good looks and comfort or we go all out for speed.
Go all out for speed and you get a Melges 32. "Get that chute up Mom!"
I think this boat is more like, "I might put the chute up. I'll have another beer and think about it."

I was thinking classic 6 meter overhangs. Can't you get something like a soling underbody with that?

[Cruisin Loser]

sailman, on Feb 7 2008, 04:39 PM, said:

For my tastes a sea berth intrudes on the function of the main salon as a place to relax with family and friends when the weather outside is not condusive to enjoy the cockpit. Which brings me to my next point, as it relates to the purpose of the boat (passage making or coastal cruising) should the cockpit be open and roomy or small for sea keeping?

Just a few thoughts.

Will Museler

I disagree on the seaberth. We have a dinette with a settee opposite and a pilot berth outboard the settee. We can have a gang around the table and when my son gets tired or bored with grownups he climbs into the pilot berth and reads or nods off. He can still chime in to the conversation when it suits him. On passage it's a sweet bunk with a leecloth. We love our pilot berth, most useful bunk on the boat, and it looks boaty.

I think you should be able to seat as many people in the cockpit as you can around the table down below, because everyone on board will either be in the cockpit when it's nice, or in the saloon when it's not. I like a bridgedeck at the forward end of the cockpit to help with the seaworthiness aspect, and to stiffen the deck structure. Makes it a little tougher to go below, but there are tradeoffs in everything.

[NoStrings]

If I wanted a classic look, I'd personally look towards those old S&S designs, like the 54' yawl, Kay. However, that kind of condems you to a life of slave labor, sanding, varnishing, and polishing. They're beautiful to look at, but my arms hurt thinking about it.

My personal choice would be a big Schumacher like Heart of Gold.

[R Booth]

Bob Perry, on Feb 7 2008, 10:52 PM, said:

I hate to interject my own priorities here but I really think that "Floating Fuck Palace 50" has a nice ring to it.
Now if we can just come up with a decent logo.

Give me a day...........

[Bob Perry]

CharlieCobra: can you post a pic of your boat?
That's kind of what I was thinking.
Under 40'.
Clasic and not Heart of Gol stylingthat's too contemporary.
Yes we can have a Soling underbody but that's hardly "modern".
6 Meter ends are kind of what I had in mind. Maybe a wee bit less.

No point using 50'er for comparison. Let's keep this boat reasonably affordable.
This boat has to be a finger in the eye to all the Beneteaus and such that are out there.

[vouz etes ici]

NoStrings, on Feb 7 2008, 06:09 PM, said:

If I wanted a classic look, I'd personally look towards those old S&S designs, like the 54' yawl, Kay. However, that kind of condems you to a life of slave labor, sanding, varnishing, and polishing. They're beautiful to look at, but my arms hurt thinking about it.

My personal choice would be a big Schumacher like Heart of Gold.

Here's one, just launched... reviewed by Bob in a recent issue of Sailing Magazine.
Anna, based on the S&S design Stormy Weather
I'm in love!!!

http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/news/2721Annarendering.jpg

Here's Bob's review: http://sailingmagazi...perry_anna.html

[NoStrings]

It's gorgeous, but I'd want it with a modern underbody, like Glenn Isaacson's "Q". Sorry Bob, just because it's a cruiser doesn't mean it has to be slow.