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#1 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 11:36 PM

Does anybody know where the tooling is for these boats or if they are still in production?
The name probably only applies to the UK as it was called the 8 metre one design in Europe.
Ther is a fleet racing in the north of England and there use to be a group of boats owned by a charter company in Brighton.
Can anybody help.

#2 ecosse4me

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:33 PM

Does anybody know where the tooling is for these boats or if they are still in production?
The name probably only applies to the UK as it was called the 8 metre one design in Europe.
Ther is a fleet racing in the north of England and there use to be a group of boats owned by a charter company in Brighton.
Can anybody help.


I think these guys have what you are looking for: http://www.hunboat.hu/rolunk.html

I have hull number 007

#3 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:06 AM

I think these guys have what you are looking for: http://www.hunboat.hu/rolunk.html

I have hull number 007

Thanks Ecosse. Just what I was looking for.Great when the system works and so well.

#4 dogwatch

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:14 AM

Ther is a fleet racing in the north of England


Where is that? Just curious.

#5 Neil S

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:25 AM

We have 4 Sigma 8's at Royal Northumberland, they use to be more a few years back, have not raced for a while since a couple of melges and a few corks have turned up.

#6 mad

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:44 AM

Does anybody know where the tooling is for these boats or if they are still in production?
The name probably only applies to the UK as it was called the 8 metre one design in Europe.
Ther is a fleet racing in the north of England and there use to be a group of boats owned by a charter company in Brighton.
Can anybody help.

Are you going to build one?

#7 ecosse4me

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 03:49 PM

We have 4 Sigma 8's at Royal Northumberland, they use to be more a few years back, have not raced for a while since a couple of melges and a few corks have turned up.


mine came from there, used to be called "more mayhem"

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#8 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 11:33 PM

Are you going to build one?

Thats more or less the plan subject to the usual contingencies.
Nobody ever said it was a great boat and Mencap have never looked on it too graciously but we think it has promise with some minor changes which we are currently working on with an older boat.
Might be another project that does not come to much. Only time will tell.

#9 ecosse4me

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 09:01 AM

Thats more or less the plan subject to the usual contingencies.
Nobody ever said it was a great boat and Mencap have never looked on it too graciously but we think it has promise with some minor changes which we are currently working on with an older boat.
Might be another project that does not come to much. Only time will tell.


What changes are you looking at? I have done a couple of mods to my boat and I am open to discussion.......... as you will see from my Avatar, or what ever you call that picture, I have gone with Asymmetric and bow pole. New Red sail should be ready for trial in a week or two.

I reduced the LP on the headsail as with the class max, you had to put in hollow to get the leech to miss the lowers, so went with battens and strait leech. Also put a bit more roach into the mainsail.

We have had her out in over 40knots of wind and she still sailed very well, with two reefs and the working jib. Sailed strait over a Dufour 40, when going up wind. I would love to see a carbon rig with Ausie style rigging, cap shrouds going to the top, instead of Jumpers.

Feel free to PM me

#10 ecosse4me

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 09:14 AM

If you can get rid of the keel trunk with some other support of Ring bulkhead, that would be a real improvement, you could then work on the keel during the winter without having to drop the keel out of the boat. Also it would improve the ability to move around the inside of the boat very nicely, allowing a table on the keel box for entertaining after the race or when cruising.

#11 ecosse4me

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 10:05 AM

Her is a picture of her with her 40sq m cruising chute. New Asymmetric is going to be 55sq m, If I was racing seriously I would probably go with a 60sq m sail.

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#12 ecosse4me

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 12:37 PM

If you were going with a European Size sail, it would need to be around 80sq m, and you would need some heavy crew!

#13 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 12:41 AM

What changes are you looking at? I have done a couple of mods to my boat and I am open to discussion.......... as you will see from my Avatar, or what ever you call that picture, I have gone with Asymmetric and bow pole. New Red sail should be ready for trial in a week or two.

I reduced the LP on the headsail as with the class max, you had to put in hollow to get the leech to miss the lowers, so went with battens and strait leech. Also put a bit more roach into the mainsail.

We have had her out in over 40knots of wind and she still sailed very well, with two reefs and the working jib. Sailed strait over a Dufour 40, when going up wind. I would love to see a carbon rig with Ausie style rigging, cap shrouds going to the top, instead of Jumpers.

Feel free to PM me

It seems you are working on most of the minor changes tha t we were thinking about. Sprit, A-sails, Carbon rig, Verticle keel. Cassete rudder - and thats most of the plot.
Working on the mule at the moment and will only run with the plan if we con achieve a SSS (or alternative) of 20 or beter. The first inclininig test with the Carbon rig looked promising but it was not the rig we propose to use it was just something we had available.
Good to learn you have done so much with your boat and it gives some hope that we might just be going the right way.

#14 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:13 AM

If you were going with a European Size sail, it would need to be around 80sq m, and you would need some heavy crew!

It's a bit heavier than you might think as some of the Lake 8's are using 150% poles and 95 sq m of kite. We tried it and found the size of the kite to be challenging but the pole length to be just a bit too much to handle through the gybes. They are all setting the poles down onto the pulpit so we reasoned that the sprit would be a good compromise.

#15 Barty Slartfast

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:17 AM

We have 4 Sigma 8's at Royal Northumberland, they use to be more a few years back, have not raced for a while since a couple of melges and a few corks have turned up.

Which boats have you got left up there and why did the introduction of the Melges and the Cork stopyou racing the 8's (or did I misunderstand that).
Does Terry still race a 8 up there?

#16 Neil S

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:26 AM

There is Buddy, Double Gin, Sophie, Join the Club, and a few others i think.

They stopped racing due to the handicaps, they rated faster than the corks but could not touch them in reality, we get about 6 racing in the winter series on the tyne as we just level rate, they are normally quicker in the tyne as the symetric kite pays as appose to the corks and melges

Sailed more mayhem on the tyne a few times, hope your enjoying her

#17 ecosse4me

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 05:11 PM

There is Buddy, Double Gin, Sophie, Join the Club, and a few others i think.

They stopped racing due to the handicaps, they rated faster than the corks but could not touch them in reality, we get about 6 racing in the winter series on the tyne as we just level rate, they are normally quicker in the tyne as the symetric kite pays as appose to the corks and melges

Sailed more mayhem on the tyne a few times, hope your enjoying her


Once we re-built the interior, she has been fantastic. I am always amazed how easily she sails, and constantly get positive comments on her looks.

#18 peter225673

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 05:26 PM

We used to have Sharpen Up GBR9788 from new. Anyone any ideas where she is now? I know she was sailing on the Tyne a while ago and did RTI in 2003

#19 Neil S

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 09:03 AM

Hi Peter

She is now called Join the Club, she sails on the tyne during the winter, normally does very well.

#20 ecosse4me

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 09:01 PM

I was just looking at the pictures that were taken of the FT 7.5 main, and that rig is exactly what I was wishing for the 8m OD

Interesting to see that it runs with an 800sq ft asymmetric. Puts it in the same ball park as the European numbers for the 8.
FT 7.5 Rig

#21 fdsailor

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 09:04 AM

I was just looking at the pictures that were taken of the FT 7.5 main, and that rig is exactly what I was wishing for the 8m OD

Interesting to see that it runs with an 800sq ft asymmetric. Puts it in the same ball park as the European numbers for the 8.
FT 7.5 Rig



And the GP26. The FT7.5 and the GP26 seem pretty close in general, with a slight advantage to the GP in LWL and Draft. BTW, keep sailing past your boat on the Gareloch - looks nice :rolleyes:

#22 ecosse4me

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 09:46 PM

I was just looking at the pictures that were taken of the FT 7.5 main, and that rig is exactly what I was wishing for the 8m OD

Interesting to see that it runs with an 800sq ft asymmetric. Puts it in the same ball park as the European numbers for the 8.
FT 7.5 Rig



And the GP26. The FT7.5 and the GP26 seem pretty close in general, with a slight advantage to the GP in LWL and Draft. BTW, keep sailing past your boat on the Gareloch - looks nice :rolleyes:


Thanks for the kind comments, just out the water today, dropped the keel out and taking home for the winter tomorrow. No weed on the bottom of the hull but a ton of barnacles. Will return to using International next year, it might also have something to do with the fact that I had to raise the keel early on in the season to get her off the putty when I parked too close to Ardentinny at high tide, which could have reduced the thickness of antifouling, strange that it was just the keel and rudder surfaces that were badly effected. Probably built up as I did not use the boat enough this season, too much work and not enough time to play :( Have to keep the money coming in to pay her. Just got some nice new sails from Murray which will be great for next season <_<

#23 Respect

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 02:09 PM

What changes are you looking at? I have done a couple of mods to my boat and I am open to discussion.......... as you will see from my Avatar, or what ever you call that picture, I have gone with Asymmetric and bow pole. New Red sail should be ready for trial in a week or two.

I reduced the LP on the headsail as with the class max, you had to put in hollow to get the leech to miss the lowers, so went with battens and strait leech. Also put a bit more roach into the mainsail.

We have had her out in over 40knots of wind and she still sailed very well, with two reefs and the working jib. Sailed strait over a Dufour 40, when going up wind. I would love to see a carbon rig with Ausie style rigging, cap shrouds going to the top, instead of Jumpers.

Feel free to PM me

It seems you are working on most of the minor changes tha t we were thinking about. Sprit, A-sails, Carbon rig, Verticle keel. Cassete rudder - and thats most of the plot.
Working on the mule at the moment and will only run with the plan if we con achieve a SSS (or alternative) of 20 or beter. The first inclininig test with the Carbon rig looked promising but it was not the rig we propose to use it was just something we had available.
Good to learn you have done so much with your boat and it gives some hope that we might just be going the right way.


I bought the 'Mad dogs' from royal northumberland in july this year. after a few repairs and cosmetic changes we are now up and sailing. we are racing mainly irc and have sailed it at dartmouth and doing a few weekends in the hamble winter series.

i did a lot of reasearch when choosing a boat and i thought the 8m was the eaiset to modify, a 707 or 1720 just dont 'look right'. the 8 is a proper yacht.

i spent a lot of time getting the bottom finish 'as new' again an i am pleased with the results. just last week i fitted a bow pole - 1.25m and am now using a standard 1720 67sqm a-sail (i stumbled accross a free brand new one). it worked well at the weekend in terms of speed and was def easier to handle. we only had 58sqm masthead sym before. i was expecting the rating to stay the same 1.013 by changing to fixed sprit (which should lower) and the go up again with larger spinnaker. seemingly they have just hammered us. i intend to have a chat with the rorc on this.

the other thing we are considering doing to drop the rating is ballast. from chatting with nick stratton the original importer he said the boat was origianly supposed to have an extra 100kg in the bulb but it was not put on due to the plan to sail them in the adriatic where the winds were always light.

i am considering 3 options - a new bigger bulb, drilling a hole in the fin and filling with lead shot and epoxy or putting internal ballast under the floor boards.

be good to know anybodys thoughts on this or any other tips you might all have regarding sailing this boats and setting the rig etc etc?

some shots of the boat. Before and after........

Attached Files



#24 ecosse4me

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:30 PM

What changes are you looking at? I have done a couple of mods to my boat and I am open to discussion.......... as you will see from my Avatar, or what ever you call that picture, I have gone with Asymmetric and bow pole. New Red sail should be ready for trial in a week or two.

I reduced the LP on the headsail as with the class max, you had to put in hollow to get the leech to miss the lowers, so went with battens and strait leech. Also put a bit more roach into the mainsail.

We have had her out in over 40knots of wind and she still sailed very well, with two reefs and the working jib. Sailed strait over a Dufour 40, when going up wind. I would love to see a carbon rig with Ausie style rigging, cap shrouds going to the top, instead of Jumpers.

Feel free to PM me

It seems you are working on most of the minor changes tha t we were thinking about. Sprit, A-sails, Carbon rig, Verticle keel. Cassete rudder - and thats most of the plot.
Working on the mule at the moment and will only run with the plan if we con achieve a SSS (or alternative) of 20 or beter. The first inclininig test with the Carbon rig looked promising but it was not the rig we propose to use it was just something we had available.
Good to learn you have done so much with your boat and it gives some hope that we might just be going the right way.


I bought the 'Mad dogs' from royal northumberland in july this year. after a few repairs and cosmetic changes we are now up and sailing. we are racing mainly irc and have sailed it at dartmouth and doing a few weekends in the hamble winter series.

i did a lot of reasearch when choosing a boat and i thought the 8m was the eaiset to modify, a 707 or 1720 just dont 'look right'. the 8 is a proper yacht.

i spent a lot of time getting the bottom finish 'as new' again an i am pleased with the results. just last week i fitted a bow pole - 1.25m and am now using a standard 1720 67sqm a-sail (i stumbled accross a free brand new one). it worked well at the weekend in terms of speed and was def easier to handle. we only had 58sqm masthead sym before. i was expecting the rating to stay the same 1.013 by changing to fixed sprit (which should lower) and the go up again with larger spinnaker. seemingly they have just hammered us. i intend to have a chat with the rorc on this.

the other thing we are considering doing to drop the rating is ballast. from chatting with nick stratton the original importer he said the boat was origianly supposed to have an extra 100kg in the bulb but it was not put on due to the plan to sail them in the adriatic where the winds were always light.

i am considering 3 options - a new bigger bulb, drilling a hole in the fin and filling with lead shot and epoxy or putting internal ballast under the floor boards.

be good to know anybodys thoughts on this or any other tips you might all have regarding sailing this boats and setting the rig etc etc?

some shots of the boat. Before and after........


That is a great job you have done with bringing the hull back to new condition, a little T-Cut and elbow grease I assume!

My rig has 1.05m of rake measured at the gooseneck to the main halyard with a bucket of water on it. She feels very good at that and as she had been winning the Sigma 8 class on the Tyne with that, I assume it was about right. My pole is just 1m longer than the J measurement, but as the boat is now sheltering from the gales and possibly snow in the next couple of days, I can not say how she performs with the 55sqm asymmetric as the boat came out the water before I got a chance to use the new sail, shame. We had snow on the hills at the top of Loch Long all today and it blew like stink on Saturday, so I am very glad I managed to get her out of the water. I would expect the 1720 sail to be substantially faster than the Symmetric spinnaker, even with the small cruising chute the boat flies when you get aggressive with the apparent wind angles and work the boat down as soon as she is up to speed, and then as soon as the speed starts to drop, take her back up again quickly to get the speed back.

I am removing all the anti-fouling this winter to improve the finish of the bottom. Any ideas on improving the keel slot? Currently I am just using slot tape, which is not very streamlined and has a tendency to attract mussels at the leading and trailing edges. I have dropped the keel out of the hull this winter and will take it back to gellcoat as well, fill and fair, then re-paint.

On ballast, I would go with the ballast in the keel option if going for weight is what you are looking for. My boat had been fitted with corrector weights just aft of the keel under the floor boards and also attached inside the bunks at the same point fore and aft. These were long gone when I bought the boat, and again I can only work on the basis that, as she had been the one of the fastest boat in the fleet. Being Nicks old demonstrator, she was probably the lightest as well. Measuring with corrector weights in the hull to start off with should give a good idea of the sort of rating you will get, and is easier to undo.

What overlap did you go for on the headsail?

#25 Respect

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 11:15 AM

What changes are you looking at? I have done a couple of mods to my boat and I am open to discussion.......... as you will see from my Avatar, or what ever you call that picture, I have gone with Asymmetric and bow pole. New Red sail should be ready for trial in a week or two.

I reduced the LP on the headsail as with the class max, you had to put in hollow to get the leech to miss the lowers, so went with battens and strait leech. Also put a bit more roach into the mainsail.

We have had her out in over 40knots of wind and she still sailed very well, with two reefs and the working jib. Sailed strait over a Dufour 40, when going up wind. I would love to see a carbon rig with Ausie style rigging, cap shrouds going to the top, instead of Jumpers.

Feel free to PM me

It seems you are working on most of the minor changes tha t we were thinking about. Sprit, A-sails, Carbon rig, Verticle keel. Cassete rudder - and thats most of the plot.
Working on the mule at the moment and will only run with the plan if we con achieve a SSS (or alternative) of 20 or beter. The first inclininig test with the Carbon rig looked promising but it was not the rig we propose to use it was just something we had available.
Good to learn you have done so much with your boat and it gives some hope that we might just be going the right way.


I bought the 'Mad dogs' from royal northumberland in july this year. after a few repairs and cosmetic changes we are now up and sailing. we are racing mainly irc and have sailed it at dartmouth and doing a few weekends in the hamble winter series.

i did a lot of reasearch when choosing a boat and i thought the 8m was the eaiset to modify, a 707 or 1720 just dont 'look right'. the 8 is a proper yacht.

i spent a lot of time getting the bottom finish 'as new' again an i am pleased with the results. just last week i fitted a bow pole - 1.25m and am now using a standard 1720 67sqm a-sail (i stumbled accross a free brand new one). it worked well at the weekend in terms of speed and was def easier to handle. we only had 58sqm masthead sym before. i was expecting the rating to stay the same 1.013 by changing to fixed sprit (which should lower) and the go up again with larger spinnaker. seemingly they have just hammered us. i intend to have a chat with the rorc on this.

the other thing we are considering doing to drop the rating is ballast. from chatting with nick stratton the original importer he said the boat was origianly supposed to have an extra 100kg in the bulb but it was not put on due to the plan to sail them in the adriatic where the winds were always light.

i am considering 3 options - a new bigger bulb, drilling a hole in the fin and filling with lead shot and epoxy or putting internal ballast under the floor boards.

be good to know anybodys thoughts on this or any other tips you might all have regarding sailing this boats and setting the rig etc etc?

some shots of the boat. Before and after........


That is a great job you have done with bringing the hull back to new condition, a little T-Cut and elbow grease I assume!

My rig has 1.05m of rake measured at the gooseneck to the main halyard with a bucket of water on it. She feels very good at that and as she had been winning the Sigma 8 class on the Tyne with that, I assume it was about right. My pole is just 1m longer than the J measurement, but as the boat is now sheltering from the gales and possibly snow in the next couple of days, I can not say how she performs with the 55sqm asymmetric as the boat came out the water before I got a chance to use the new sail, shame. We had snow on the hills at the top of Loch Long all today and it blew like stink on Saturday, so I am very glad I managed to get her out of the water. I would expect the 1720 sail to be substantially faster than the Symmetric spinnaker, even with the small cruising chute the boat flies when you get aggressive with the apparent wind angles and work the boat down as soon as she is up to speed, and then as soon as the speed starts to drop, take her back up again quickly to get the speed back.

I am removing all the anti-fouling this winter to improve the finish of the bottom. Any ideas on improving the keel slot? Currently I am just using slot tape, which is not very streamlined and has a tendency to attract mussels at the leading and trailing edges. I have dropped the keel out of the hull this winter and will take it back to gellcoat as well, fill and fair, then re-paint.

On ballast, I would go with the ballast in the keel option if going for weight is what you are looking for. My boat had been fitted with corrector weights just aft of the keel under the floor boards and also attached inside the bunks at the same point fore and aft. These were long gone when I bought the boat, and again I can only work on the basis that, as she had been the one of the fastest boat in the fleet. Being Nicks old demonstrator, she was probably the lightest as well. Measuring with corrector weights in the hull to start off with should give a good idea of the sort of rating you will get, and is easier to undo.

What overlap did you go for on the headsail?


A lot of elbow grease, the bottom had an inch of black antifoul - got busy with the sander. i then spayed the bottom with sp epoxy primer and then more sanding and polishing. i am dry sailing the boat.

with regards rake i am using the 2nd from top hole on the forestay ladder. this was suggested in the tuning guide i was given. think i just need to get to grips more the the jumpers/lowers/backstay to keep some sort of uniformed shape as the breeze goes up and down.

is the keel easy to get out? i presume u just lift the boat off the keel? does the keel stand up on its own? how did u transport it? we are using single point lift, can the rig stay in once the keel is off?

a 1720 pole length is 2m over j and we are 1.25. i found in 8 kts we had on the weekend we couldnt stay as low as i would of liked compared to j92. without the kite collapsing.

i had the sailmaker out with us on the weekend to look at jib and main options. i guess we still have the standard class sail sizes. we are thinking of reducing the lp and adding some area up top.

LL: 9.55

LP: 3.25

HHW: 1.62

LL 9.55

HSA: 15.49

we are also considering reducing p and e and adding more roach.

we are finding we need power but we also need to be able to lose it quickly. higher aspect sails should help this.

have u weighed your boat without correctors? i am planning on doing this this week. at current the empty weight is 1180kg.

winter has def arrived. i am thinking of taking the boat upto north wales next summer to do abersoch keelboat week if any other sigma 8s are interested?



#26 Damp Freddie

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 07:27 PM

I don't think it's just the weight of the keel that was an issue...

" the boat was fine with the big (MH) kite up until you hit 17 knts BS and then it would just cavatate and lose grip with resulting wipe out"

from an owner.

#27 ecosse4me

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 08:27 PM

I reduced p to 10.4 and e just a tad to 3.77 and increased 3/4 girth to 1.52m and the mid girth to 2.52m measuring to the closest point on the luff. Mast set up was very tight, with the lowers taking out the pre-bent to reduce it to about 1". When I got the boat, the forestaty was on the second hole down, but it still did not feel right. With the increase in roach in the mainsail I went down two holes on the forestay and she feels great. As no two pieces of wire are ever cut the same size, I gave the rake at goose neck level as that is easy to quantify. It is easy to get power and it is easy to blade it out and de-power with the controls available. I am increasing my purchase on the backstay this winter as well to make this easier. If I was to do a proper racing mainsail, I would do five battens with the top 2 full length and lower 3 std, this would pump a little extra area into the top 1/4 for more power. I have attached a picture looking up the leech showing the amount of roach.

Your idea with the jib sounds spot on to me. I have just done a performance cruising jib at 104% just now, but if I do any proper racing, it is in my plan to do a something very similar to what you have suggested, full length top batten pushing the roach out beyond the strait line and then normal leech below that. The class max jib at LP = 3.39m meant that the sail had a lot of hollow in the lower leech to miss the lower shroud, which I felt was a waste of LP as you were then loosing any gain in area and not getting a benefit for the extra hollow. How is the leech profile with the 1.08% LP that you have?

Dropping the keel out was much easier than I thought. We lowered the boat onto the trailer with the keel down and then undid the keel hoisting line and hoisted the boat off it. The keel was then tied down tightly to the trailer and we took it up to the house. The keel sits very easily upright. the shaft is very light and the bulb shape is happy to sit upright. Once keel was off the trailer, we went back down and brought the boat up. We were the last hoist of the day and hung overnight just in case we had trouble getting the keel off the trailer. I do not think I would like to have the boat hang with the mast up, but as long as the boat was well tied down it should not be a problem. Should be fun putting the keel back on, as it is back heavy and will not just hang and slide in. I am thinking of jacking it back in while taking up the slack with the pulley.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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#28 ecosse4me

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 11:52 PM

When I was looking closer at racing under IRC, I was looking at going with a Fractional AP spinnaker. I looked at quite a few winning boats of similar style and came up with:

Luff = 10.10
Mid Girth = 6.08m
Foot = 5.88m
sail area = 50.63
STL = 3.47m

My feeling was that it was a good area, about 7sqm bigger than a FC8 and Projection 762 spinnaker, with similar proportions to a Sonar in relation to the rig of the boat. Having raced back in 1995 on a sigma 8 with a std heavy fractional spinnaker and lost out tot the big spinnakers under IRC, I know that the boat needs some area, but I feel that over 60msq is just too big for IRC to live with. My sizing was based on gut feeling from sailing other boats and how I felt the sigma sails.

I am afraid I do not have a weight for my boat, but hopefully next season I can get to the weigh in at Kip.

Good luck this weekend

#29 Brasil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Hi can any one help me whicha sigma 8 lifting keel stack down?

#30 ecosse4me

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

I Sent you a message in reply to yours. See your SA inbox




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