535 replies to this topic

[zeyang]

hi list, im building me a colin archer in lapstrake. hopefully finish next year.  size is 40 feet. aluminium in hull is 8 mm. Shape and look will be in just like a wooden boat. 

What do you think?



zeyang

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[Moonduster]

Why on earth would anyone build a lapstrake-looking boat out of alloy? It's going to take 100 times longer than to build a non-lapstrake boat, weigh a ton (conservatively) more, be a bear to maintain, almost impossible to make fair - I just don't get it at all!

But have fun!

[Heavy Metal]

Im with M, curious way to build.

Couple of questions
1. How are you gong to weld it without burning the wood? or is this a rivit and sealant job.
2. 8mm over those frames!! why so thick?!?!.
3. How many are on the build to get it done in 12 months?

ok, so that was three questions, bite me.

BTW - what will it rate?

[zeyang]

Why on earth would anyone build a lapstrake-looking boat out of alloy? It's going to take 100 times longer than to build a non-lapstrake boat, weigh a ton (conservatively) more, be a bear to maintain, almost impossible to make fair - I just don't get it at all!

But have fun!

weight will be 2.5 tonn just for alu-hull (maybe 5% more than carvel)

Weil be quite fair, at least when you dont have access to english wheel and so on.  Bending 8mm plates is not everyones cup of tea.

Hard to measure time difference between lapstrake and carvel, since i have neve built one in carvel .

Anyway. it will look very traditiontal and much stronger than wood. A boat made for sailing to antarctica   :-)

[zeyang]

Im with M, curious way to build.

Couple of questions
1. How are you gong to weld it without burning the wood? or is this a rivit and sealant job.

Will weld. First tackweld with tig (in a safe distance from wood), then cut out the wood and start MIGweld all together. 




2. 8mm over those frames!! why so thick?!?!.

due to ice in antarctica...!!!






3. How many are on the build to get it done in 12 months?

around 5000 hours totally, divided by 1 or 2 person. 


ok, so that was three questions, bite me.

BTW - what will it rate?

approx 20 tonn. 

[Omer]

Surely you are not worried about weight saving. So why did you prefer aluminum over steel. Working a thinner steel sheet would be easier than an 8mm thick alloy. Welding,Repairing in remote places, and looking after aluminum is much more problematic, especially over time. Electrolysis will be a constant threat.
Anyhow, good luck. If the end result is satisfying, its all that matters.

[zeyang]

Surely you are not worried about weight saving. So why did you prefer aluminum over steel. Working a thinner steel sheet would be easier than an 8mm thick alloy. Welding,Repairing in remote places, and looking after aluminum is much more problematic, especially over time. Electrolysis will be a constant threat. Anyhow, good luck. If the end result is satisfying, its all that matters.

its easier to work with alloy due to using woodworking tools i already have. repairing is easy when i bring my welding equipment (today you can get machines less than 30 kg (lincoln 205) 3 phase is easy to find or get my generator.
electrolysis is a known problem and there is so many commercial alloy ferries out there with much more complicated electric system than me. (one battery and 2 cables which going to lantern)
and besides, i like really working with alloy. it give a good feeling. almost like wood and i dont need to think about rust stains at all. or toredo worms
reason for yacht not made in alloy (or steel) is more difficult mass production method and conservative business. but mass production is seldom a good sign of quality. they cut corners every possible places.

[Bob Perry]

8mm plating is not outragious. It's tough, the frames can be smalled and fewer the durability is increased and it's far easier to fair. Lots of PNW fish boats in that size range use .25" plating.
I'm not sure about the "lapstrake" thing but I imagine it could look very good if done carefully.

Who designed this "Colin Archer"?
Where are you building it?

Best of luck with the project.

[Slowboat]

I've never seen a "Colin Archer" type in lapstrake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were generally carvel planked correct?

Good luck!

[zeyang]

8mm plating is not outragious. It's tough, the frames can be smalled and fewer the durability is increased and it's far easier to fair. Lots of PNW fish boats in that size range use .25" plating.
I'm not sure about the "lapstrake" thing but I imagine it could look very good if done carefully.

Who designed this "Colin Archer"?
Where are you building it?

Best of luck with the project.

agree, 8mm is not special thick. I was thinking about 10 mm but price pr kg raises dramatically due to marked demand, so I opted for 8mm. with 2 cm overlap i actually got 1.6  cm there. Im thinking about frames every 60 cm as in original drawing. with laps you  can avoid quite a few frames  and still get it fairly strong hull, but ofcourse not like finnish nuclear icebreakers. 

design is original colin archer (by himself) from 1905. you can get all his drawings at norwegian seafarers museum. im building behind a barn far away from sea! Only cows around here!

zeyang. 

[Soñadora]

I think this sounds great. Especially since I'm not the one building it.

Zeyang, you have very good reasons for what you are doing. It will be very interesting to see the end result.

I too would be interested in knowing what plans you are following.

[zeyang]

I've never seen a "Colin Archer" type in lapstrake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were generally carvel planked correct?

Good luck!

correct. he designed some very few in the beginning but switched to carvel before 1900. In some original papers he stated that he could build if customer asked for it, but will cost more. i dont know the reason why its more costly. More wood maybe? in my opinion, carvel is more difficult and demand more from a boatbuilder in competence. 

The guys which worked for him was professional boatbuilders where they inherit the competence from father to son in generations, not an amateur like me. 

[zeyang]

I think this sounds great. Especially since I'm not the one building it.

Zeyang, you have very good reasons for what you are doing. It will be very interesting to see the end result.

I too would be interested in knowing what plans you are following.

I think the world will come to an end, so its good to have an ultimate escape machine.. just kidding :-)

There is one day, a man have to do what a man have to do.. GO SAILING! especially to places where you find drifting icebergs. so i opt for alloy hull.. but a little time consuming so hopefully i manage to finish by next year.

[zeyang]

I've never seen a "Colin Archer" type in lapstrake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were generally carvel planked correct?

Good luck!

ahh. here is an original drawing from the master himself. What a beauty!


What have happened to the yachts! All plastic and ugly as hell. :-P

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[hobot]

8mm plating is not outragious. It's tough, the frames can be smalled and fewer the durability is increased and it's far easier to fair. Lots of PNW fish boats in that size range use .25" plating.
I'm not sure about the "lapstrake" thing but I imagine it could look very good if done carefully.

Who designed this "Colin Archer"?
Where are you building it?

Best of luck with the project.

agree, 8mm is not special thick. I was thinking about 10 mm but price pr kg raises dramatically due to marked demand, so I opted for 8mm. with 2 cm overlap i actually got 1.6  cm there. Im thinking about frames every 60 cm as in original drawing. with laps you  can avoid quite a few frames  and still get it fairly strong hull, but ofcourse not like finnish nuclear icebreakers. 

design is original colin archer (by himself) from 1905. you can get all his drawings at norwegian seafarers museum. im building behind a barn far away from sea! Only cows around here!
zeyang. 

Anarchy Boatbuilding......I like it!

[Soñadora]

I think we're all wondering about YOU Zeyang.

Tell us more about yourself and why you came up with this insanely mad idea.

[zeyang]

I think we're all wondering about YOU Zeyang.

Tell us more about yourself and why you came up with this insanely mad idea.

Ahh, me, Im just your friendly neighbour laowai with a desire to go to the end of the world. 

If anyone want to join, i have bunks for 4. Around here, there is hardly anyone even know the direction to the ocean.

[Tom Keffer]

Well, I can't read a word of your website, but the pictures sure are great! One of the more interesting projects to come along in a long time.

Good luck to you!

[zeyang]

Well, I can't read a word of your website, but the pictures sure are great! One of the more interesting projects to come along in a long time.

Good luck to you!

Heck, you must be on the few illiterate around here, I know at least 1.3 billion just in the neighbourhood  who can read fluently.  just kidding.

Mandarin is an insane crazy language. The guy who invented it, must have been out of his mind.

But the girls are really pretty though!

Anyway, thanks for comments. 

Zeyang. 

[Soñadora]

Well, I can't read a word of your website, but the pictures sure are great! One of the more interesting projects to come along in a long time.

Good luck to you!

Heck, you must be on the few illiterate around here, I know at least 1.3 billion just in the neighbourhood  who can read fluently.  just kidding.

Mandarin is an insane crazy language. The guy who invented it, must have been out of his mind.

But the girls are really pretty though!

Anyway, thanks for comments. 

Zeyang. 

haha...you're going to do well here. Keep it up.

[SemiSalt]

So why did you prefer aluminum over steel.

Tom Colvin, who designed and built many a steel boat, once wrote that if all the material were free, he would build in aluminum for the pleasure of working with the material. From what I've read, welding in AL takes a lot of skill, but everything else is easier and more pleasurable than steel.

[zeyang]

So why did you prefer aluminum over steel.

Tom Colvin, who designed and built many a steel boat, once wrote that if all the material were free, he would build in aluminum for the pleasure of working with the material. From what I've read, welding in AL takes a lot of skill, but everything else is easier and more pleasurable than steel.

its true. Ive had the pleasue of discussing with Mr. Colvin about boats in general, he is very into cost consideration. (as a professional builder). With todays prices of aluminum, its really a good option. Im not a professional welder but i find alloy welding quite easy with todays equipment. Not harder than steel in any way. Prices is down by 20-30% which could beat steel when you take painting and sandblasting into the picture. And besides material is only a fraction of the cost. Manhour is the biggest cost. (which is basically free when you are homebuilder.

If you look at books from other famous builders, among them maybe Mr. Farmer, there is much positive feedback about using alloy. 



zeyang.

[Soñadora]

its true. Ive had the pleasue of discussing with Mr. Colvin about boats in general, he is very into cost consideration. (as a professional builder). With todays prices of aluminum, its really a good option. Im not a professional welder but i find alloy welding quite easy with todays equipment. Not harder than steel in any way. Prices is down by 20-30% which could beat steel when you take painting and sandblasting into the picture. And besides material is only a fraction of the cost. Manhour is the biggest cost. (which is basically free when you are homebuilder.

If you look at books from other famous builders, among them maybe Mr. Farmer, there is much positive feedback about using alloy. 



zeyang.

that's all really nice and everything, but you're not allowed to post here any more unless it includes pictures.

[zeyang]

its true. Ive had the pleasue of discussing with Mr. Colvin about boats in general, he is very into cost consideration. (as a professional builder). With todays prices of aluminum, its really a good option. Im not a professional welder but i find alloy welding quite easy with todays equipment. Not harder than steel in any way. Prices is down by 20-30% which could beat steel when you take painting and sandblasting into the picture. And besides material is only a fraction of the cost. Manhour is the biggest cost. (which is basically free when you are homebuilder.

If you look at books from other famous builders, among them maybe Mr. Farmer, there is much positive feedback about using alloy. 



zeyang.

that's all really nice and everything, but you're not allowed to post here any more unless it includes pictures.

Ok. Here is one reason why alloy is easy to work with. You can use ordinary wood working tools. (it seems i got alloy disease, even my car is fully alloyed these days) The saw cut 8mm just like butter.  But please wear mask! The small alloy bits are hot and stick easily to your skin. 

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[zeyang]

its true. Ive had the pleasue of discussing with Mr. Colvin about boats in general, he is very into cost consideration. (as a professional builder). With todays prices of aluminum, its really a good option. Im not a professional welder but i find alloy welding quite easy with todays equipment. Not harder than steel in any way. Prices is down by 20-30% which could beat steel when you take painting and sandblasting into the picture. And besides material is only a fraction of the cost. Manhour is the biggest cost. (which is basically free when you are homebuilder.

If you look at books from other famous builders, among them maybe Mr. Farmer, there is much positive feedback about using alloy. 



zeyang.

that's all really nice and everything, but you're not allowed to post here any more unless it includes pictures.

another reason.  i handle  6 meter alloy planks all alone. You need more than a rope to do the same with steel plates. 

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[Soñadora]

its true. Ive had the pleasue of discussing with Mr. Colvin about boats in general, he is very into cost consideration. (as a professional builder). With todays prices of aluminum, its really a good option. Im not a professional welder but i find alloy welding quite easy with todays equipment. Not harder than steel in any way. Prices is down by 20-30% which could beat steel when you take painting and sandblasting into the picture. And besides material is only a fraction of the cost. Manhour is the biggest cost. (which is basically free when you are homebuilder.

If you look at books from other famous builders, among them maybe Mr. Farmer, there is much positive feedback about using alloy. 



zeyang.

that's all really nice and everything, but you're not allowed to post here any more unless it includes pictures.

Ok. Here is one reason why alloy is easy to work with. You can use ordinary wood working tools. (it seems i got alloy disease, even my car is fully alloyed these days) The saw cut 8mm just like butter.  But please wear mask! The small alloy bits are hot and stick easily to your skin. 

cool pics.

Is that a beer with a screw cap?

and wth...an aluminum (or is that 'aluminium') Land Rover???

[steele]

Wow. After all those threads about cruising boats designed on this site but not built, cruising anarchy has a unique build to follow. On a side note, when Sons said he needed pics, he meant the pretty girls.

[UrbanChicago]

cool pics.

Is that a beer with a screw cap?

and wth...an aluminum (or is that 'aluminium') Land Rover???

The Land Rover Defender has always had aluminum body panels, but this is the first time I've seen one without any paint.


The truck looks good and so does the boat!

[zeyang]

Wow. After all those threads about cruising boats designed on this site but not built, cruising anarchy has a unique build to follow. On a side note, when Sons said he needed pics, he meant the pretty girls.

Ofcourse. 


Here's 2 pretty girls. They are amusing themselves to death what im doing behind the barn. The one in the corner is always a little shy 

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[Soñadora]

Funny how China looks like Tennesee.

[Omer]

Looking at the way you are constructing this boat, the girls may be wondering whether you are building a smaller version of the Noah's Ark. :-)

[Windward]

This is great! Love what you are doing.

What else have you built in aluminium?

[zeyang]

This is great! Love what you are doing.

What else have you built in aluminium?

Not too much, just tool boxes etc, ahh yes, i build two panniers for my bike. :-) Extremely solid boxes, much better than the stuff you buy at high prices in plastic.  
There is a cool story behind this, my plan was to cross russia from china to europe so i need to have lots of storages for campinggear and gasoline" so basically this boxes are custommade for storing gasoline.  :-)
But hey, this is not sailing-porn pics 

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[zeyang]

To make planks i put a wood-batten on the bottom on the aluminium plank who is already on boat and connect it with strips to the batten underneath with wood sticks. Then take them both off. Then I put it on the alloy plate and start the cutting.. Overlap is around 2 cm, which is tack welded on both side. On the boat the battens look like it has a lot of curvature but in reality is pretty straight.

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[zeyang]

Then a few comments on how to make the wooden frames. 

1. I start with the original drawing and make a small boat-model to check for accuracy. 

2. Then i scale it up on the floor in size 1:1 and start to make wood frames in full size. (this is called lofting in maritime language)  basically i draw all the frames on the floor in full size and use plastic and battens to trace this on wooden planks.  

3. then i erect all frames with distance of 60 cm each. Totally it is 18 frames, but it could be possible to use only half of this to keep the shape of the boat.

The lofting process took around 200 hours. As a beginner i did a few mistakes and a experiended lofting person could probably done the same in half the time or even faster. 

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[zeyang]

For critical parts, I use plywood templates. Especially where i have to  do changes which is not in the original drawing. A good example is the prop. There was no prop in the original drawing so i had to put in the prop between the rudder and stern. Here is a picture of a plywood prop of original size which I made. and the cut-in  I had to do with the rudder and stern. I could of course do the cutting in the rudder and keep the stern as original but effect of rudder is better if i do less cut-in in the rudder. 


I try to keep the prop, shaft and engine i straight angle and as low as possible. Weight of engine is 500 kg so its good to keep the weight low. Shaft will be around 2 meter. 

I draw everything on the computer first to make it easier for me to do changes if needed. Im using a ordinary opensource 2D cad program called qcad. Pretty easy to use. No need for fancy 3D cad programs. 

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[zeyang]

One life, live it! (stolen motto from Land Rover Corp)

The crazy boatbuilding monkey is jumping up and down in front of camera.  

Doing lofting, its good to have kneepads. Kneeling for 200 hours on the floor do makes the knees painful. 

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[zeyang]

Then some comments on boat design. There is plenty of lines on a drawing to show how a boat should look like in 3D on a flat paper.  In this picture you see them all. All is not necessary but usually more lines you have the easier it is to check for errors in the drawing. (diagonals, waterlines,buttock lines etc) All this lines represent a point to draw the frames correctly. (the outline of keel, stem, stern and rudder  is just as you expect it to be) It took me quite some time to understand what all this lines was used for. This is not rocket science. The designer did draw this up 100 years ago, and he didnt even have a computer. 

Normally when you get (steal or buy) a drawing there is a lofting table included which contain a numerical table where the designer already have done the checking for accuracy based on his  lofting in 1:1. (XY coordinates of every lines you  need)  But in this case, I only had the drawing so i had to do the lofting. (100 year old paper is bound to show some errors due to papers tendency to stretch a little last 100 year) 

A good thing about cad is the ability to hide lines in layers, to make it less confusing. No need to show all lines all the times.  Another good thing with cad is to easily blow up the drawing to full scale (drawing on paper is usually 1:12 or even less) The picture with blue frames is seen from bow. Looks pretty neat!

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[hobot]

This thread has the potential to be the best one on the whole website.


Well done.

[chippin' away]

Great project! Thank you for sharing it with us. What made you choose this design? Do you have any experience with this type of boat?

[Tom Keffer]

This thread has the potential to be the best one on the whole website.


Well done.

+1

I'm eagerly looking forward to following your progress! Keep us posted.

[pogen]

hi list, im building me a colin archer in lapstrake. hopefully finish next year.  size is 40 feet. aluminium in hull is 8 mm. Shape and look will be in just like a wooden boat. 

What do you think?



zeyang

You, sir, are a brave and ambitious man and my hat is off to you. Best of luck!

[This is definitely Front Page material, someone alert Clean!]

[zeyang]

Great project! Thank you for sharing it with us. What made you choose this design? Do you have any experience with this type of boat?

Hard question. Im not a speed junkie.  I prefer safety at sea over speed., so i was looking at some of the old designs, and then I find this double ender Colin Archer a pretty boat. I dont have any sailing experience with this design but there are plenty of colin archer boats out there and some is still being built today. 

What I especially like is the comments from the the professional seamen on these boats, (he built many as rescueboats) they came back with advice to Mr Archer about needed changes, so since im building one of his last design, I hope all his lifewisdom is put into this design (they seameen worked both as rescue seaman and fishermen and spent most of the year on the sea so they had plenty of experience)

These boats was sailed in some of the most weather stricken areas in the world during wintertime and when the captain wrote in the ships log: "saved some life tonight, weather; hurricane force wind" i its a tribute to  the seaworthiness of this design. 

There is a saying: when all boats are going in, the rescue boat are going out. 

2 pics of these brave seamen. 

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[zeyang]

Comments on how to save time on lofting.

Before you guys and girls kneel down on the loftingfloor to make
yourself another boat, i have some good news. When the drawing is
already inside a computer and faired, you can basically skip all the
lofting part and save yourself 200 hours or more.

What you need is a computer (which you already have), Qcad and the
computer drawing. Then borrow a plotter (42 inch) or go to a copy
shop. Now you basically print out the frames from the computer-drawing
and voila! use the paper-frames as template when you start to cut the
frames. Ofcourse, you have to tape the big paperstrips together cause
frames are wider than 42 inch.

So why did i use the hard way then? First i actually did like
described above, but then i had a sleepless night worrying about the
accuracy of a 100 year old drawing had stretched on paper. (no
wonder!) so i kneeled down and spent 200 hours just to find out it was
pretty accurate in first place.. I figured it was not more than 1
inch wrong in all direction and that is nothing when we are talking
about when we discuss a 40 feet long boat.

3 rolls of paper for the plotter should be plenty.

zeyang

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[zeyang]

Here is a good picture of the templates for keel, rudder and bow. 


As you see, these templates are from original drawing, there is no prop arrangment here. 

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[SemiSalt]

On the boat the battens look like it has a lot of curvature but in reality is pretty straight.

Them old time designers knew a thing or two about getting the most out of the planking stock.

[CharlieCobra]

Nice work Zeyang, very nice. Keep us posted on your build please.

[Faxis]

Absolutely fascinating. Please keep us updated.

Quick question...


Not sure if this is breaking some protocol or not but what are you thinking about naming her?

[Jose Carumba]

Your project is quite nice Zeyang.

Lofting on the floor is a good way to learn and makes you smarter when you transition to CAD.

One thing I would comment on is the propeller aperture. It may be too late in your construction process but you may want to provide more tip clearance between the prop and the hull and rudder. If you don't you may get some nasty vibrations as the tip of the prop passses the structure. A good rule of thumb is to provide clearance equal to 15-20% of the diameter of the propeller, 10% minimum. Also, can you remove the prop for maintenance without removing the rudder?

Keep posting!

[Soñadora]

One life, live it! (stolen motto from Land Rover Corp)

The crazy boatbuilding monkey is jumping up and down in front of camera.  

Doing lofting, its good to have kneepads. Kneeling for 200 hours on the floor do makes the knees painful. 

this boatbuilding monkey does not look like Chinese. Are you Chinese?

This project is going to make you a star. Whether you want to be or not.

[Hiracer]

I've never seen a "Colin Archer" type in lapstrake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were generally carvel planked correct?

correct. he designed some very few in the beginning but switched to carvel before 1900.

since im building one of his last design

I'm confused. Are you building an early or late Colin Archer design?

[Hiracer]

CA’s early linesplans are really messy, but the later ones are nicely drawn and sometimes traced. (Be aware that the diagonals are not lead to the centreline crossing waterlines). There are no offset table, no construction plan or scantlings.
The stern needs extensive redesign to successfully fit propeller and to retain the good manoeuvrability of the original design.

Too many Colin Archer replicas or copies, despite heavy scantlings, suffer from inadequate strength.
Be also aware that many of CA’s designs have too little displacement for todays fitting out with engine and tanks and of shore cruising.
Many designs are sharp in the ends and can thus be very “pitchy” if loaded in the ends with anchor chain, tanks, batteries and whatever we put in a boat today.

Originally they did not have detailed construction plans. The boats were designed by the yard and details did not have to put down on paper.
Today it is very important to have more details on scantlings and construction since the boat is probably going to be built by a yard not familiar with these boats.

The original interior layout is rarely usable for today's use. Times have changed!

The sailplan can sometimes be used. However, the rescue boats have little sail area and have to enlarge the rig for yacht use. The yachts have large sail areas but often a longer mainsail booms than we like today when we do more offshore cruising than before. Today these boats are not modern racing boats and we also have engine for use in calm conditions. The long boom often creates a weather helm which becomes even worse when the rudder is cut out for the propeller. The shorter yacht booms and reduces sail area is usually compensated for with a taller rig and larger jib. There are seldom scantlings on the spars. Diameters must not be taken from the sailplan!

If you want advice on Colin Arhers plans, you can call me or mail me.
This will be on commercial basis, 1 € (euro) pr minute, phone or mail.

The original plans can be obtained from the Maritime Museum in Oslo:
Norsk Sjøfartsmuseum, Bygdønesveien 37, 0286 Oslo - Norway
Tlph + 47 2411 4150 - Fax + 47 2411 4151


http://home.online.n...rcherPlans.html

Bob Perry, comment on using a straight CA design but with modern engine, tanks, chain in the pointy end? Seems like total displacement issues and displacement location issues.

[zeyang]

I've never seen a "Colin Archer" type in lapstrake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were generally carvel planked correct?

correct. he designed some very few in the beginning but switched to carvel before 1900.

since im building one of his last design

I'm confused. Are you building an early or late Colin Archer design?

Late design (Ca 106/107) From 1906-1907. Only difference is lapstrake. (As my understanding, Mr. Archer stopped using lapstrake before 1900, but customers could ask for this, but at higher building cost.




zeyang

[zeyang]

One life, live it! (stolen motto from Land Rover Corp)

The crazy boatbuilding monkey is jumping up and down in front of camera.  

Doing lofting, its good to have kneepads. Kneeling for 200 hours on the floor do makes the knees painful. 

this boatbuilding monkey does not look like Chinese. Are you Chinese?

This project is going to make you a star. Whether you want to be or not.

Im one of the many gwailos in china.  (鬼佬) :-)  


There is a saying: Give a chinese a boat, and you will never see him again. :-)


zeyang 

[zeyang]

Your project is quite nice Zeyang.

Lofting on the floor is a good way to learn and makes you smarter when you transition to CAD.

One thing I would comment on is the propeller aperture. It may be too late in your construction process but you may want to provide more tip clearance between the prop and the hull and rudder. If you don't you may get some nasty vibrations as the tip of the prop passses the structure. A good rule of thumb is to provide clearance equal to 15-20% of the diameter of the propeller, 10% minimum. Also, can you remove the prop for maintenance without removing the rudder?

Keep posting!

The prop is variable pitch version with diameter 61 cm. The clearance is 10 cm (which make it approx 15%) It should be possible to remove prop without removing the rudder (i havent thought about this, so i need to check it)




zeyang

[zeyang]

 
The stern needs extensive redesign to successfully fit propeller and to retain the good manoeuvrability of the original design.
Be also aware that many of CA's designs have too little displacement for todays fitting out with engine and tanks and of shore cruising.


Originally they did not have detailed construction plans. The boats were designed by the yard and details did not have to put down on paper.

The stern should be ok. I try to cut as much as possible into the stern and as little as possible in the rudder. 

The displacement is a basically a trail and error thing as it used to be in the old days. Thats where a seatrail is coming into the picture.  I will use removable lead pigs formed in the keel. 

When it comes to detailed construction plans i agree. There is hardly any detailed plans around, but by looking at floating museums i will be fairly close.  This will be a kind of down to earth sailboat, so I stick to the interior as it used to be 100 years ago. 

Im not building to satisfy a customer, so if im happy, its ok. 



Here is interior of one of his original design. Pretty basic but more than enough.  I especially like the wood-stove :-)

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•  01.jpg   89.48K   204 downloads

[Hiracer]

Not too much, just tool boxes etc, ahh yes, i build two panniers for my bike. :-) Extremely solid boxes, much better than the stuff you buy at high prices in plastic.  
There is a cool story behind this, my plan was to cross russia from china to europe so i need to have lots of storages for campinggear and gasoline" so basically this boxes are custommade for storing gasoline.  :-)
But hey, this is not sailing-porn pics 

I can't quite make out the name of that hotel in the upper left of your picture of the motocycle. What hotel is that? Or does it say, "Motel?"

[zeyang]

Absolutely fascinating. Please keep us updated.

Quick question...


Not sure if this is breaking some protocol or not but what are you thinking about naming her?

Good question. I was thinking about 老外 (laowai) , but my friends think its rather stupid name of a boat. Im  open for suggestion here. 

It should reflects  china in one way or another way.  I really like the chinese naming habits of sons and daughters.  Really cool.




zeyang

[zeyang]

Not too much, just tool boxes etc, ahh yes, i build two panniers for my bike. :-) Extremely solid boxes, much better than the stuff you buy at high prices in plastic.  
There is a cool story behind this, my plan was to cross russia from china to europe so i need to have lots of storages for campinggear and gasoline" so basically this boxes are custommade for storing gasoline.  :-)
But hey, this is not sailing-porn pics 

I can't quite make out the name of that hotel in the upper left of your picture of the motocycle. What hotel is that? Or does it say, "Motel?"

I have no idea. Its definetly not Hilton. This picture was taken in northern Italy if i remember correctly (Lido Garda) 

Regarding this bike. I was thinking to take it with me on the boat. Basically what i can do is to make part of the deck as a removable unit to hoist the bike up. Moving gastanks, panniers etc, will make the bike pretty small and easy to store. Then i can go home if I get homesick.  


For sailing lubbers , this will come as a chock, but there are many places inland worth visits also (ie Urumqi)  :-)

zeyang

[Hiracer]

Well, all I can say is that you keep some pretty crazy hours if you are in China.

All of China is GMT + 8.

http://wwp.greenwich...sia/china/time/

I believe all of our posts are GMT noted.

You must not like sleep too much.

http://forums.sailin...p...mp;hl=&st=0





And how can you build a boat spending so much time here?

[PNW Matt B]

Absolutely fascinating. Please keep us updated.

Quick question...


Not sure if this is breaking some protocol or not but what are you thinking about naming her?

Good question. I was thinking about 老外 (laowai) , but my friends think its rather stupid name of a boat. Im  open for suggestion here. 

It should reflects  china in one way or another way.  I really like the chinese naming habits of sons and daughters.  Really cool.




zeyang

Just do what American tattoo artists do. You're sailing *away* from china, so as long as you use pictograph letters, you can put anything you want and then just tell people whatever you feel like calling the boat that day. Who's going to know?

[zeyang]

Well, all I can say is that you keep some pretty crazy hours if you are in China.

All of China is GMT + 8.

http://wwp.greenwich...sia/china/time/

I believe all of our posts are GMT noted.

You must not like sleep too much.

http://forums.sailin...p...mp;hl=&st=0





And how can you build a boat spending so much time here?

Youre right. Less talk and more action  (Ill try to keep to 30-40 hours a week on the boat to finish by july next year and its pretty tight scedule already)

zeyang

[lord_nougat]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

[Soñadora]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.

yeah, WTF?

[zeyang]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months. 

[zeyang]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months. 

finished plank 8. sofar spent 1200 hours totally and rising :-)

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•  anarchy03.jpg   218.57K   196 downloads

[NAMT]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months. 

finished plank 8. sofar spent 1200 hours totally and rising :-)

How many planks to go?
Wish I had your fortitude ...

[sailingkid]

This is one of my favourite sa threads, and i was wondering when you were gunna post again! Keep the posts coming!

[Tanton Y_M]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months.

finished plank 8. sofar spent 1200 hours totally and rising :-)


This must be the most inneficient way to build a Metal boat I have ever heard of! Even if a Colin-Archer.
You have to love it.

[zeyang]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months.

finished plank 8. sofar spent 1200 hours totally and rising :-)


This must be the most inneficient way to build a Metal boat I have ever heard of! Even if a Colin-Archer.
You have to love it.

:-) This is the old way of building a lapstrake boat just that i swapped oak-planks with Al. I dont think there is many other ways of building a lapstrake boat. (except maybe rightside up)



zeyang

[jo forthan]

Not TOO much less talk though! It hasn't quite been a week, so there's probably not alot to update, but I think I can speak for at lease several of us that we're on the edge of our seat awaiting updates on your astounding project.
When your boat is finished, if you sail to Los Angeles, the 1st round is on me [if I am still here]!

Thanks, Not sure about route yet. But LA is not a bad idea!

will keep you update, when i have something to update. now work is just repetition (plankbuilding) for next 2-3 months.

finished plank 8. sofar spent 1200 hours totally and rising :-)


This must be the most inneficient way to build a Metal boat I have ever heard of! Even if a Colin-Archer.
You have to love it.

:-) This is the old way of building a lapstrake boat just that i swapped oak-planks with Al. I dont think there is many other ways of building a lapstrake boat. (except maybe rightside up)



zeyang

BRILLIANT WORK

[167149]

:-) This is the old way of building a lapstrake boat just that i swapped oak-planks with Al. I dont think there is many other ways of building a lapstrake boat. (except maybe rightside up)



zeyang
[/quote]

He was probably thinking along the same lines as me here as in "sexy as hell hullshape by why not a smooth finish" as in standard frames and hull plating, would certainly reduce the welding heat considerably and aluminium is not that difficult to wheel/bend/torture into shape, you must have miles of welding ahead of you here, apart from that though go for it and finish your dream

[Soñadora]

This is like that guy who spent 12 years building a 1/12 scale Ferrari.

Only this is 1:1 scale and it's not a Ferrari.

[lord_nougat]

This is like that guy who spent 12 years building a 1/12 scale Ferrari.

Only this is 1:1 scale and it's not a Ferrari.

Ferraris wish they were this awesome.

[Paps]

What a wonderful thread, why wasnt I told!!

Zeyang, you are a man after my own heart, strong work. For a first time builder you are doing an amazing job.

One thing if I may. I think the engine position you have will give you no end of grief my friend. If its at all humanly possible please get part of the engine itself above the waterline!!!! You can leave the prop where it is and angle the shaft but you must lift the engine. Otherwise you will have no end of flooding problems due to siphoning. Unless your exhaust outlet is above deck this arrangement will be trouble.

Also having the engine so low it will be the first thing to be disabled should the boat take on water. In any knock down situation or similar disaster where you take on a reasonable amount of water aboard first thing to go is your starter motor.

On a more pleasant note, how the hell did you end up in China, gwylo ?? (cantonese version)

[Paps]

Oh and one more question which I think a few others might have been dying to ask.

Why not build the original frames in Alloy instead of timber so they are there to stay???

[zeyang]

Oh and one more question which I think a few others might have been dying to ask.

Why not build the original frames in Alloy instead of timber so they are there to stay???

It will be in alloy. Wood frame is only template to bend the planks into boat-shape. after boat is turned rightside up, i will replace the wood with alloy-frames. 



ahh. got some help the other day :-) Work today and sail in future. What a deal :-)

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[zeyang]

2 more pics

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[Jose Carumba]

Good progress Zeyang. Will you replace the wooden frames one at a time with the aluminum ones to avoid losing the hull shape?

[zeyang]

Good progress Zeyang. Will you replace the wooden frames one at a time with the aluminum ones to avoid losing the hull shape?

Yes. One by one. Will start in middle (frame 10) and then take one on each side until finished. Im pretty sure i manage to keep shape and avoid any starved horse look. But of course i dont know yet. I have never done this before... Im just a poor farmboy building my dream..  :-)

[zeyang]

What a wonderful thread, why wasnt I told!!

Zeyang, you are a man after my own heart, strong work. For a first time builder you are doing an amazing job.

One thing if I may. I think the engine position you have will give you no end of grief my friend. If its at all humanly possible please get part of the engine itself above the waterline!!!! You can leave the prop where it is and angle the shaft but you must lift the engine. Otherwise you will have no end of flooding problems due to siphoning. Unless your exhaust outlet is above deck this arrangement will be trouble.

Also having the engine so low it will be the first thing to be disabled should the boat take on water. In any knock down situation or similar disaster where you take on a reasonable amount of water aboard first thing to go is your starter motor.

On a more pleasant note, how the hell did you end up in China, gwylo ?? (cantonese version)

Actually i was thinking about just skipping the engine in first place. Originally this design was without engine. (before the oilage) Plan is to have the exaustoutlet above deck. (gooseneck system) Inlet will be closed circuit (in bilge) Reason for having it as low as possible is to use the engine as ballast also. 

will also try to avoid all those seacocks or at least minimize them as much as possible. I hate flooding the boat :-)

This gweilo used to work in china, but now i work fulltime with this boatproject instead. 

[Slowboat]

Wooden Boat Magazine this month has an article on one of the most original Colin Archer rescue boats - you should check it out.

[zeyang]

Wooden Boat Magazine this month has an article on one of the most original Colin Archer rescue boats - you should check it out.

xiexie. will find. Is it RS1 colin archer or RS10 Stavanger? 

RS10 stavanger is now bought by a museum. I had a chance to see it some time ago. my interest was in the windlass :-)

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•  windlass.jpg   127.47K   49 downloads

[Deev]

Excellent thread, zeyang! Thanks for posting it and keep up the good work and keep on keeping us informed. Cheers.

[Jose Carumba]

Wooden Boat Magazine this month has an article on one of the most original Colin Archer rescue boats - you should check it out.

xiexie. will find. Is it RS1 colin archer or RS10 Stavanger?

RS10 stavanger is now bought by a museum. I had a chance to see it some time ago. my interest was in the windlass :-)

It is Stavanger.

[zeyang]

Wooden Boat Magazine this month has an article on one of the most original Colin Archer rescue boats - you should check it out.

xiexie. will find. Is it RS1 colin archer or RS10 Stavanger?

RS10 stavanger is now bought by a museum. I had a chance to see it some time ago. my interest was in the windlass :-)

It is Stavanger.

wops. its RS14 stavanger not 10 :-) (10 is RS Christiania) 

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•  rs14.jpg   10.87K   180 downloads

[ravings]

Great thread, keep it up!

[Bob Perry]

What a great pic of that Colin Archer crashing through the waves with everything set. Makes me want to be there.
I can almost smell the diesel fired stove below.

[zeyang]

What a great pic of that Colin Archer crashing through the waves with everything set. Makes me want to be there.
I can almost smell the diesel fired stove below.

No diesel. Pure wood stove :-)

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•  01.jpg   25.59K   79 downloads

[zeyang]

2 more pics from yesterday. 

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[NAMT]

What a wonderful thread, why wasnt I told!!

Zeyang, you are a man after my own heart, strong work. For a first time builder you are doing an amazing job.

One thing if I may. I think the engine position you have will give you no end of grief my friend. If its at all humanly possible please get part of the engine itself above the waterline!!!! You can leave the prop where it is and angle the shaft but you must lift the engine. Otherwise you will have no end of flooding problems due to siphoning. Unless your exhaust outlet is above deck this arrangement will be trouble.

Also having the engine so low it will be the first thing to be disabled should the boat take on water. In any knock down situation or similar disaster where you take on a reasonable amount of water aboard first thing to go is your starter motor.

On a more pleasant note, how the hell did you end up in China, gwylo ?? (cantonese version)

Actually i was thinking about just skipping the engine in first place. Originally this design was without engine. (before the oilage) Plan is to have the exaustoutlet above deck. (gooseneck system) Inlet will be closed circuit (in bilge) Reason for having it as low as possible is to use the engine as ballast also. 

will also try to avoid all those seacocks or at least minimize them as much as possible. I hate flooding the boat :-)

This gweilo used to work in china, but now i work fulltime with this boatproject instead. 

When Moitessier lost Joshua in Mexico he went to Hawaii (I think) & had a new steel boat built.
The engine he installed was an air cooled diesel.
He mainly wanted simplicity of maintenance for the engine & no through hulls.
He planned to sail not motor & wanted to run the engine for short periods to get in & out of anchorages & to charge batteries.

I have no idea how it worked out for him.
But, if you use modern sound proofing & flexible engine mounts & you have a well vented engine space with good short exit for the exhaust it may be a good alternative for you.
Another big + is the price, air cooled is way cheaper than water cooled.
In India you can even get an air cooled diesel Enfleld motor bike.
So India & China ought to be good places to source one.

[zeyang]

What a wonderful thread, why wasnt I told!!

Zeyang, you are a man after my own heart, strong work. For a first time builder you are doing an amazing job.

One thing if I may. I think the engine position you have will give you no end of grief my friend. If its at all humanly possible please get part of the engine itself above the waterline!!!! You can leave the prop where it is and angle the shaft but you must lift the engine. Otherwise you will have no end of flooding problems due to siphoning. Unless your exhaust outlet is above deck this arrangement will be trouble.

Also having the engine so low it will be the first thing to be disabled should the boat take on water. In any knock down situation or similar disaster where you take on a reasonable amount of water aboard first thing to go is your starter motor.

On a more pleasant note, how the hell did you end up in China, gwylo ?? (cantonese version)

Actually i was thinking about just skipping the engine in first place. Originally this design was without engine. (before the oilage) Plan is to have the exaustoutlet above deck. (gooseneck system) Inlet will be closed circuit (in bilge) Reason for having it as low as possible is to use the engine as ballast also. 

will also try to avoid all those seacocks or at least minimize them as much as possible. I hate flooding the boat :-)

This gweilo used to work in china, but now i work fulltime with this boatproject instead. 

When Moitessier lost Joshua in Mexico he went to Hawaii (I think) & had a new steel boat built.
The engine he installed was an air cooled diesel.
He mainly wanted simplicity of maintenance for the engine & no through hulls.
He planned to sail not motor & wanted to run the engine for short periods to get in & out of anchorages & to charge batteries.

I have no idea how it worked out for him.
But, if you use modern sound proofing & flexible engine mounts & you have a well vented engine space with good short exit for the exhaust it may be a good alternative for you.
Another big + is the price, air cooled is way cheaper than water cooled.
In India you can even get an air cooled diesel Enfleld motor bike.
So India & China ought to be good places to source one.

thanks, i found even a cheaper solution. old fishermens choice - sabb 32 hp engine with pitch prop, cooling runs closed circuit in the keel. exhaust could be like the fishingboat have it. 


weight 1000 pound so its indeed a heavy beast. 



zeyang. 

[Greever]

Great job Zeyang!

Thank you for sharing pictures of your build with us.

[NAMT]

What a wonderful thread, why wasnt I told!!

Zeyang, you are a man after my own heart, strong work. For a first time builder you are doing an amazing job.

One thing if I may. I think the engine position you have will give you no end of grief my friend. If its at all humanly possible please get part of the engine itself above the waterline!!!! You can leave the prop where it is and angle the shaft but you must lift the engine. Otherwise you will have no end of flooding problems due to siphoning. Unless your exhaust outlet is above deck this arrangement will be trouble.

Also having the engine so low it will be the first thing to be disabled should the boat take on water. In any knock down situation or similar disaster where you take on a reasonable amount of water aboard first thing to go is your starter motor.

On a more pleasant note, how the hell did you end up in China, gwylo ?? (cantonese version)

Actually i was thinking about just skipping the engine in first place. Originally this design was without engine. (before the oilage) Plan is to have the exaustoutlet above deck. (gooseneck system) Inlet will be closed circuit (in bilge) Reason for having it as low as possible is to use the engine as ballast also. 

will also try to avoid all those seacocks or at least minimize them as much as possible. I hate flooding the boat :-)

This gweilo used to work in china, but now i work fulltime with this boatproject instead. 

When Moitessier lost Joshua in Mexico he went to Hawaii (I think) & had a new steel boat built.
The engine he installed was an air cooled diesel.
He mainly wanted simplicity of maintenance for the engine & no through hulls.
He planned to sail not motor & wanted to run the engine for short periods to get in & out of anchorages & to charge batteries.

I have no idea how it worked out for him.
But, if you use modern sound proofing & flexible engine mounts & you have a well vented engine space with good short exit for the exhaust it may be a good alternative for you.
Another big + is the price, air cooled is way cheaper than water cooled.
In India you can even get an air cooled diesel Enfleld motor bike.
So India & China ought to be good places to source one.

thanks, i found even a cheaper solution. old fishermens choice - sabb 32 hp engine with pitch prop, cooling runs closed circuit in the keel. exhaust could be like the fishingboat have it. 

weight 1000 pound so its indeed a heavy beast. 

zeyang. 

The cooling in the keel idea has been used by Brent Swain, the 'origami' steel boat designer & builder in BC.
Lots of additive to prevent rust & corrosion & I'm told it works well.
The weight is definitely an issue, but you get it midships & fairly low.

[Paps]

Just dont run it at night in quiet anchorages to charge the batteries!!!

[zeyang]

Just dont run it at night in quiet anchorages to charge the batteries!!!

:-) some of these old engines have a very cool sound. especially the one cylinder ones... 

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[NAMT]

Just dont run it at night in quiet anchorages to charge the batteries!!!

:-) some of these old engines have a very cool sound. especially the one cylinder ones... 

Nice pics - you are making good progress.

I had a Norwegian Sabb, single cylinder, long stroke, in a Nantucket Clipper, a British, 32' yawl, 21' on the water line.
It had a big fly wheel, you could start it by hand, it also used a small explosive cotton 'cigarette' (?) that you could place in the cylinder head to get the first bang!
Also had the variable pitch prop - it wasn't too great in reverse.
The engine was really dependable - even when the sea-water cooling box rusted all the way through & one valve was leaking, it kept running.
Had no problem getting spare parts in Seattle, the engine re-build was quick & cheap, it is still running, after 35 years, but I sold the boat in '85.

Best wishes for the engine installation.
Use big mounts.

[zeyang]

Had 2 girls helping me this weekend. Really homesteading girls. even brought a portable flour grinder with them. so this weekend it was both grinding metal and flour :-)

work today and go sailing to the end of the world tomorrow :-) There is space for more people to help so if you like sailing please drop me a line. 

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[Estar]

This thread just gets better and better - aluminum boats and now pretty girls. What's next?

[sailman]

zeyang,

Thanks for sharing your project. I am curious though about the strakes and sealing them up. Are you going to have to go back and weld all those seams? If so, are you worried about heat deforming the shape and possibly making the joints weak?

Cheers,

Will Museler