535 replies to this topic

[zeyang]

zeyang,

Thanks for sharing your project. I am curious though about the strakes and sealing them up. Are you going to have to go back and weld all those seams? If so, are you worried about heat deforming the shape and possibly making the joints weak?

Cheers,

Will Museler

thanks,


yes. i will weld all seams when im finish putting up the plank.  (welding both inside and outside) Im not too worried about distortion not even making the joints weak. with mig you weld pretty fast so there is not much heat concentraiton at one point, alloy is very good to spread out the heat .and 8 mm is pretty thick so there will be much metal to absorb the heat involved in welding.

I will also do my best to avoid the starved-horse look some boats have. thats one of the reason i install the frames after the skin has been welded up. 

zeyang. 

[Jose Carumba]

Zeyang,

Do you have a welding sequence thought out?

Jose

[zeyang]

Zeyang,

Do you have a welding sequence thought out?

Jose

thats a good question. 

i was thinking starting from top of boat as of today (along the keel) and work downwards in 1 meter sequence (then weld from 1 oclock to 2 oclock, go back to 11 oclock and weld to 12 oclock etc.) Maybe i should be more worried about distortion part but i have been welding quite a lot 4 mm without any distortion problems before and this is twice as thick.

im open for advice though.

 

zeyang

[rck]

Zeyang: nice job. I'd be a little concerned about the welding, though. I think I'd try starting at the top, as you said, and marking off each seam into comfortable increments... maybe 6-8", not 1 meter. I'd backstep each weld, and jump around constantly, always trying to keep things equal on both sides of the boat and on each seam. By backstep I mean I'd start on one increment, weld from right to left, and then skip 3 spaces and weld the next one from right to left, etc. Not sure how many I'd do before moving to the other side, but probably not very many... maybe 5. I'd hit each area with a tufted stainless wire brush on a 4 1/2" grinder immediately before I welded it. Then go back and weld the ones in between, again moving right to left with the welds and jumping to the right... that way you end up with every other one done. Then notch the ends of all those welds with an 1/8" wheel, or better yet a carbide cutter, and weld every other one in between, so you have 3 out of 4 done. Then close it up. Maybe hang the wire feed on some kind of trolley over the whole thing... it's going to be an awful lot of jumping around. You'll be seeing molten aluminum flowing in your dreams.

If the whole thing seems strong enough (and it should) I think I'd try to wait to do the inside until after you roll her... that way it's all down hand. You might find, with 8 mm plate, that you can do much longer increments than 6-8", but I'd be concerned that it would do strange thing a long distance away from where you're working. You'll hear the metal talking to you as you go... strange pings, creaks, and general complaints from the material as things move. And move they will. No matter how you do it it's a lot of welding, and you don't want pinholes letting salt water into those areas where they overlap.

Good luck.

Best, Bob

[zeyang]

Zeyang: nice job. I'd be a little concerned about the welding, though.

Hi Bob. It looks like a good plan.  I go for shorter welds and see how it goes first. And spread on both side of the boat. Maybe on each plank, I start weld in middle then on each bow/stern side and slowly move towards middle, and do it on both side at same time. Then i will spread the distortion at least on 3 places far away from eachother on each strake. 

Or even i could weld on 3-4 different strakes in a kind of sequence, but it means a little moving around. 

Thankfully i start with the least visible place on the boat. When i reach the sheerboard i will have seen how the material react to the welding.  Thankfully MIG welding is a little faster than TIG else i will spend forever doing this step. 

zeyang

[zeyang]

Finish strake 13th. 3 more to go :-)

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[Omer]

Great Thread...
By the way, you mean SAAB dont you? Not SABB.

[Jose Carumba]

Great Thread...
By the way, you mean SAAB dont you? Not SABB.

Nope. SAAB builds cars (& planes), SABB builds diesel engines; heavy slow turning ones. They have a CPP (conttrolable pitch propellor) system as well.


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[zeyang]

Great Thread...
By the way, you mean SAAB dont you? Not SABB.

Nope. SAAB builds cars (& planes), SABB builds diesel engines; heavy slow turning ones. They have a CPP (conttrolable pitch propellor) system as well.


 sabb.jpg   31.82K   110 downloads

great engines, unfortunately they were competed out of the market by cheap asian engines :-(

But still many 30-40 years old engines are in great shape. I even got 2 for the price of  one! :-) Good to have a spare one. 



zeyang

[NAMT]

Great Thread...
By the way, you mean SAAB dont you? Not SABB.

SAAB Swedish aircraft & autos
SABB Norwegian , marine fishing & commercial diesels
Great engines, long life, economical, simple, easy to maintain, tough

They are available in North America

[NAMT]

Great Thread...
By the way, you mean SAAB dont you? Not SABB.

Nope. SAAB builds cars (& planes), SABB builds diesel engines; heavy slow turning ones. They have a CPP (conttrolable pitch propellor) system as well.


 sabb.jpg   31.82K   110 downloads

The one I had was the one cylinder - looked like the pic with the big fly wheel, hand start, but the handle was above the fly wheel.

I can't imagine you ever needing two of them.
You can probably sell one easily in Europe.

[zeyang]

The one I had was the one cylinder - looked like the pic with the big fly wheel, hand start, but the handle was above the fly wheel.

I can't imagine you ever needing two of them.
You can probably sell one easily in Europe.

I have the 2j model same as in picture but older (not HVP gear) I think i take a spare prop and propshaft + camshaft, and valves + some other smaller parts. It s really heavy stuff compared to todays engines. It gives me a good feeling. They dont build such engines anymore.

a good idea i got, which i must check more, if the gear is freewheelin i can just connect a dynamo to the shaft and get some power that way when sailing. It will ofcourse slow the boat a little but im not in hurry.



zeyang

[zeyang]

Plank 15 and 1 more to go. Had to cut whole in the floor to make space for this plank. Im spending my time thinking how to turn this 3 tonns beast around.  Seems i have 2 options. 

1. tear down the wall, move the boat out on wheels and turn it with a crane outside

2. move boat sideways close to wall, and turn it with  2 or 3 winches and make a kind of cradle on the out side of the hull first. 

still a few weeks to think about this. 




zeyang

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[Joli]

Nice work! You're not like Charlies cousin are you?

[167149]

[quote

a good idea i got, which i must check more, if the gear is freewheelin i can just connect a dynamo to the shaft and get some power that way when sailing. It will ofcourse slow the boat a little but im not in hurry.



zeyang
[/quote]


This does actually work, did a southern ocean crossing some years back from Auckland NZ to Chile with this on a fixed 3 blade prop one thing to keep in mind is the whine that the altenator makes whilst excited rises to a squeel round the 12 knot mark and remember one night sliding down a greybeard at 17 knots it made more noise than a kick in the nuts from a fat chick, our setup started charging around 5 knots boat speed and once excited and charging needed to slow below 2 knots or so to kick out again.......shaft brake was non existant ......as was any form of self steering the whole bloody trip

[zeyang]

finished last plank (sheerboard)

Trying to give her a sweet curve. A little hard to see when she is upside down. 

zeyang

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[Ishmael]

Hell, it's only aluminum. If it didn't look right I'm sure you could freehand in a nice sheer with a grinder.

[Paps]

Hell, it's only aluminum. If it didn't look right I'm sure you could freehand in a nice sheer with a grinder.

How crude, Ish, but functional.

[Ishmael]

Hell, it's only aluminum. If it didn't look right I'm sure you could freehand in a nice sheer with a grinder.

How crude, Ish, but functional.

It's my claim to fame. Crude but functional.

[Bob Perry]

Ze:
It looks truly beautiful upside down. Hope your sheer works out for you. I'm sure with the eye it took to get the rest of the shapes right the sheer will be piece of cake, moon cake.

"how to turn 3 tons of beast around"?
I've watched a few boats being turned over. It's one of those days that the yard would prefer the client not to be present. I guess that doesn't apply here. Best of luck with it.
I hope you post some pics of that event.

[Soñadora]

Well hell, that didn't take long.

[Paps]

Ze, can I suggest you do as much priming, filling, fairing, sanding as you can while she is up this way. Your neck and back will love you for it. I cannot stress this enough. Final coat of paint only right way up.

She looks beautiful, you must be proud.

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

Ze -

Are you planning to seal/paint the boat w/something like coal tar expoy?

AGITC

[gregj1]

zeyang,

I wouldn't want a heavy slow boat. I've never been able to slow down even when there is no hurry. Building an old design in lap strake aluminum is just so weird and then you want to sail it to somewhere cold!

BUT - I am humbled by your knowledge, ambition, skill and fortitude - and ability to get chicks to help you build it.

you are the man, zeyang. I look forward to seeing the rest of the process.

Greg

[jo forthan]

you da man

[zeyang]

Hell, it's only aluminum. If it didn't look right I'm sure you could freehand in a nice sheer with a grinder.

Yes.Ill found out.
Ill flip it first and use a laserwater to get both side identical and a nice cure and easier for my eyes to see if it looks right. Need to move on to finish up the keel and the cradle to flip it. No more time to fiddle with that  curve now. 

will not paint it above water. Its alloy. This is purely an escape machine made for sailing to strange places... and besides i kind of like the alloy color.  Deck will also be of alloy (non skid type alloy) If for some reason it will get too hot to walk on barefoot i can use some kind of of thick paint which reflects the sunrays... ill find out. 




zeyang




 

 

[Paps]

Of course Doh! no paint. Forget I spoke.

[Bob Perry]

I like the look of alu left "natural". Here in the PNW a lot of the alu commercial fishing boats are left natural. Some of the Bristol Bay boats don't even use bottom paint as they are not in the water long enough to need it. I think those alu lapped "planks" are beautiful. I sure would not want to try to disguise it after all that work.

[oldgoatroper]

I like the look of alu left "natural". Here in the PNW a lot of the alu commercial fishing boats are left natural. Some of the Bristol Bay boats don't even use bottom paint as they are not in the water long enough to need it. I think those alu lapped "planks" are beautiful. I sure would not want to try to disguise it after all that work.

Some boats have painted topsides, but the decks are almost always bare. The reason is that there is a certain kind of boot sole available that does not slip on aluminum, even when its wet. The key thing is that the deck must be smooth, not textured. Otherwise your grip is compromised and a texture will just wear your soles out quicker. I cannot remember what kind of sole it is but it is always a pale yellow-beige gummy looking colour. Not cheap either. I think the boots I had were about $150 or so. They truly work great even with moderate amounts of fish slime around -- except when there are jellyfish on deck.

Z, if you could locate footwear with that kind of sole, you'd have everything you need...

[zeyang]

hi,

i was thinking using this 5-bar as deckplates. If i get tired of it in future i can just grind it flat and paint it or use some rough sandpaper to make it less slippery. What i im most worried about is actually walking on barefoot in summer. Alloy get pretty warm in summer.




zeyang

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[zeyang]

I like the look of alu left "natural". Here in the PNW a lot of the alu commercial fishing boats are left natural. Some of the Bristol Bay boats don't even use bottom paint as they are not in the water long enough to need it. I think those alu lapped "planks" are beautiful. I sure would not want to try to disguise it after all that work.

Some boats have painted topsides, but the decks are almost always bare. The reason is that there is a certain kind of boot sole available that does not slip on aluminum, even when its wet. The key thing is that the deck must be smooth, not textured. Otherwise your grip is compromised and a texture will just wear your soles out quicker. I cannot remember what kind of sole it is but it is always a pale yellow-beige gummy looking colour. Not cheap either. I think the boots I had were about $150 or so. They truly work great even with moderate amounts of fish slime around -- except when there are jellyfish on deck.

Z, if you could locate footwear with that kind of sole, you'd have everything you need...

Problem is: when you go below 40-45 degrees north you usally dont need any footwear (or clothes for that matter, hey welding-girls! you read this) :-) .

The grip is actually better barefoot.  But the radiant heat worries me. I never tried walking barefoot on alloy in summer.  too bad if you feel like you are some kind indian guru walk on burning coal all day!

zeyang

[sailman]

zeyang,

Having worked on commercial ships, steel deck, I can tell you that bare feet are not an option. Uncoated AL will definately be cooler but I doubt it will be compfortable to walk on. Get a few pairs of reef walkers:

[tpb]

Hell, it's only aluminum. If it didn't look right I'm sure you could freehand in a nice sheer with a grinder.

Yes.Ill found out.
Ill flip it first and use a laserwater to get both side identical and a nice cure and easier for my eyes to see if it looks right. Need to move on to finish up the keel and the cradle to flip it. No more time to fiddle with that  curve now. 

will not paint it above water. Its alloy. This is purely an escape machine made for sailing to strange places... and besides i kind of like the alloy color.  Deck will also be of alloy (non skid type alloy) If for some reason it will get too hot to walk on barefoot i can use some kind of of thick paint which reflects the sunrays... ill find out. 

hey zeyang...i own a 53' alloy sail which is unpainted. search LEDA (or my posts) as pix were shown in one thread or another about show us your boat. blue stripes are 3m vinyl tape which has worn like iron. two years after removing paint and polishing she still looks hot although somewhat duller than when i first finished up. haven't done anything in the intervening period. i get nothing but compliments although i am accused of being french frequently. decks were painted with light bluish grey non skid. i am headed to boat and will post brand... i think interlux interdeck... it is a reasonably priced, one part urethane and went on very fast and pretty even (roll and tipped) once the deck hdw was taped off. covered great. it has worn extremely well over three years but still hot even in new england.....not unbearable to me but i am something of an animal and still go barefoot most of the time. on the redo, might consider their buff color as their white would be impossible to keep clean.

maybe you know this but.........ask around the welding supply house for the WALTER system. 4 1/2" hook and loop solid orange pad for grinder which accepts scotchbrite type bads in various grades of coarseness up to 11000rpm. the hook and loop is industrial grade but it will eventually throw the pad but not until the scotchbrite surface is pretty much done or if you are constantly swapping grades. i had no problem with this given the speed and results i was getting. use two grinders instead. the blue fine ones still leave swirls. buy the pads by the packages of ten (?). also track down FIBRATEX SURFACE FINISH wheels. 4.5" x 7/8" one grade only, solid, and also for your grinder up to 12000rpm. these things are magic, last forever (literally) and once you get the touch, you can polish alloy to a real nice hum with minimal swirls. no compound stuff necessary. i use the latter after the former obviously. neither remove gobs of material (so won't fare welds quickly enough) and act more as polishers. great, great and fast method once you get to finish details. set up two grinders so you don't swap wheels and move positions as you work. also, they are nothing short of magnificent for polishing the cast iron tables on my tablesaws, planers, band saws, fences, etc.

[Soñadora]

semi-hijack

tpb your boat is AMAZING. Bigger/more pics please.

[zeyang]

Hi tpb

Could you please tell med more about your alloy-boat: 


1. hull-thickness/type of alloy in hull. is it same thickness all over?

2. frames, type (t-bar?) and distance between? any stringers?

3. insulation, type? how applied?

4. i found you mention problem with lead keel and alloy. What did you put in between? I was thinking making a box out of grp or plywood and stuff the lead ingots in there. My intention with ingots is: if i for some strange reason need to take out ballast i can just throw out these ingots fast and easily. Its also easier for me to make them and move them around also. 

im curious how others do stuff when they have alloy-boat. 




Thanks for any information. 





zeyang. 

[zeyang]

Working on re-inforcing the temporary frames to the hull by welding small alloy bits to the wood frame. When i flip the boat i will remove the wooden frame one by one, when i install the permanent alloy frame.

On outside i will make a square cradle in wood which will also be good to have to make the boat standing upright.




zeyang

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[Bob Perry]

Ze:
My buddy Doug with the alu Bristol Bay boat insists that you will need deck non skid paint. It's the only paint on his boat. His boat lives in Alaska so he would not know much about hot, sunny days.

Are you lofting the frames or are you just going to eyeball them and fit by trial and error? It seems like while the material is non traditional the actual sequence of building is very traditional.

[zeyang]

Ze:
My buddy Doug with the alu Bristol Bay boat insists that you will need deck non skid paint. It's the only paint on his boat. His boat lives in Alaska so he would not know much about hot, sunny days.

Are you lofting the frames or are you just going to eyeball them and fit by trial and error? It seems like while the material is non traditional the actual sequence of building is very traditional.

Yes. For smaller boat it was normal to build upside down and use temporay frames. but i think this boat was build with permanent frames first  and right side up. At least i have seen a picture of a rightside up half finished ones. 100 year old photograph. They used to have both outer skin and inner skin (inner skin in pine). Thats kind of overkill so i stick to watertight bulkhead instead. I was actually thinking welding a tinner alloy skin on the inside of the frames but I think a watertight bulkhead buys me enough time to fix any leakage in the forward compartment. 

Since i have the shape of the skin already i can just make some very simple wooden frames and use as templates when i shape the alloy t-bar frames. shouldn't be too difficult.

I will put the alloy frames in the middle of the wooden ones and remove them as I go to make sure the skin keeps the shape.

zeyang

[Bob Perry]

Ze:
Of course. I have seen a lot of older boats of your size built right side up. I'm so used to seeing boats built upside down now that I forgot.
I think that inner planking was called ceiling and it was an important structural part of the boat. Those boats were hell for stout. I like the idea that you can always see the inside of your "planking".
How much more ballast do you think you will need compared to the original timber models? I'm guessing a lot. How will you install the ballast? Lead? Iron? Cement?
Are you using the same alloy throughout?

[Estar]

im curious how others do stuff when they have alloy-boat.

for Hawk (see www.bethandevans.com) . . .

1. hull-thickness/type of alloy in hull. is it same thickness all over?

5mm decks, painted with industrial factory floor coating; 6mm topsides; 8mm in front of mast below waterline, 10mm keel sides and right around keel to hull, 12mm keel bottom. Steve DAshew used the non-skid tread plate you are looking at and they always wear shoes - hot and cold climates. If you want to go barefoot put on some beige paint.

2. frames, type (t-bar?) and distance between? any stringers?

Ring frames (75mm deep T) at 40cm spacing and Longitudinal (25 mm flat bar) at 30cm spacing

3. insulation, type? how applied?

75mm Sprayed fire resistant polyurethane foam. Friends have a boat that is using 50mm Armaflex foam (self adhesive) insulation that is terrific but about 3 times the cost of spray urathane.

4. i found you mention problem with lead keel and alloy. What did you put in between? I was thinking making a box out of grp or plywood and stuff the lead ingots in there. My intention with ingots is: if i for some strange reason need to take out ballast i can just throw out these ingots fast and easily. Its also easier for me to make them and move them around also. 

Lead shot in all the corners, with lead bricks where they fit, with hot lead poured over the top and then welded shut (pressure tested). I would definitely not put a plywood box down there, likely to make a mess.

 

[zeyang]

Ring frames (75mm deep T) at 40cm spacing and Longitudinal (25 mm flat bar) at 30cm spacing

Hmm. thats pretty narrow consider your size of frame if they are not too thin.. Any reason why so narrow spacing?? I was thinking around 60 cm would be enough. Maybe i should reconsider and go for 40cm also. Is it more narrow  closer to bow? (where there are a bigger chance of hitting something) 

Does your boat have some kind of ice-classification? 

What is alloy-thickness of your deep-T?

thanks,

zeyang

[zeyang]

Ze:
Of course. I have seen a lot of older boats of your size built right side up. I'm so used to seeing boats built upside down now that I forgot.
I think that inner planking was called ceiling and it was an important structural part of the boat. Those boats were hell for stout. I like the idea that you can always see the inside of your "planking".
How much more ballast do you think you will need compared to the original timber models? I'm guessing a lot. How will you install the ballast? Lead? Iron? Cement?
Are you using the same alloy throughout?

I use 5083 for the skin (8mm). and 6060 for the frames (60x60x6mm) For deck i wonder about the 5bar (5052) which i think would be in 5 or 6 mm. with frames underneath (same frames as in the hull). Mast i dont know yet. Probably alloy-tube which is 6060 or 6082. I can get them in  5 or 10 mm. diameter, hmm. here i dont know yet. Or use wood for mast. havent started thinking about mast yet. Its also a cost consideration (alloy contra wood)

ballast will be only lead. (scraplead) will melt it into ingots/bricks and make them removable. Weight: Ill start with around 5 tonns and take a sea-trail first. If its not enough Ill just add more.

zeyang

[Estar]

Ring frames (75mm deep T) at 40cm spacing and Longitudinal (25 mm flat bar) at 30cm spacing

Hmm. thats pretty narrow consider your size of frame if they are not too thin.. Any reason why so narrow spacing?? I was thinking around 60 cm would be enough. Maybe i should reconsider and go for 40cm also. Is it more narrow  closer to bow? (where there are a bigger chance of hitting something) 

Does your boat have some kind of ice-classification? 

What is alloy-thickness of your deep-T?

thanks,

zeyang

I was aiming to meet ABS polar class PC7 (Summer/autumn operation in thin first-year ice which may include old ice inclusions). See http://www.bethandev...WatersGuide.pdf for the polar class scantlings. These scantlings are really for large steel ships, so you need to squint a little to make them fit a small aluminum sail boat.

ABS also have helpful scantlings for aluminum vessels at http://www.bethandev...inumVessels.pdf and for offshore sailing http://www.bethandev...HORE RACING.PDF

Our rudder is even stronger - 10mm skins, 5" diameter post - because it needs to be not just 'ice class' but 'rock class'. We tested it by bouncing it had off some rocks in Iceland and it passed

I thought about making the frames variable spacing, but I wanted small frame spacing around the rudder and over the keel and around the mast and in the bow and that was already most of the boat so I just made it the same.

The thickness of both the T's and the flat bar is 6mm.

The bow is pretty strong. We have quite a heavy frame that runs up the centerline of the bow - 16mm thick x 100m deep and there is a bit of 12mm plating in the 'ice impact' area. I have both a foam filled crash box in the bow under the chain locker, and a watertight bulkhead aft of that, and integral tanks (which make a double bottom) aft of that.

The boat was designed to have teak decks (+1000kg of wood). I left the wood off the decks and also made the interior of cored panel rather than wood (probably another +500kg savings) and invest some of the weight saving in the extra framing and some in extra lead in the keel and kept some for extra cruising load.

[zeyang]

 

The bow is pretty strong. We have quite a heavy frame that runs up the centerline of the bow - 16mm thick x 100m deep and there is a bit of 12mm plating in the 'ice impact' area. I have both a foam filled crash box in the bow under the chain locker, and a watertight bulkhead aft of that, and integral tanks (which make a double bottom) aft of that.

Hey, that crash box was a good idea.! it means you actually have some kind of double skin where you have that box, (triple skin) if you count with that watertight bulkhead.  (what is thickness of alloy for that bulkhead?)

Since i try to "fake" a wooden keel i have 2 parallel  keel-planks going whole the way through the boat (8x200mm with different width. (mostly 15-20 cm in the bow, 30 cm in the middle and 15 cm in stern). I will seal off the bow-part of the keelbox to make it a kind of crashbox. Problem is: if ice hits me on one of the side of this box i have nothing but the outer skin. Maybe i should weld a small crashbox on both side of the waterline? maybe 20 cm above and 20 cm below waterline some 1 meter from bow and backwards and fill it with foam also.

What i plan to do with that keelbox is: some part will be used for cooling of engine, (around the area of engine). The middle part will be ballast and the bow part will be sealed off.

hmm. need to think of this some more. 




zeyang

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[167149]

hi,

i was thinking using this 5-bar as deckplates. If i get tired of it in future i can just grind it flat and paint it or use some rough sandpaper to make it less slippery. What i im most worried about is actually walking on barefoot in summer. Alloy get pretty warm in summer.




zeyang

leave the checkerplate (5 bar you call it ) out as it can be lethal for lack of grip, also found bare raw aluminium decks leave the soles of your feet black, so follow what Bob mentions for his bristol bay buddie and nonskid paint, Oh and Bob, bristol bay can get pretty warm on a rare good day....

[zeyang]

leave the checkerplate (5 bar you call it ) out as it can be lethal for lack of grip, also found bare raw aluminium decks leave the soles of your feet black, so follow what Bob mentions for his bristol bay buddie and nonskid paint, Oh and Bob, bristol bay can get pretty warm on a rare good day....

I cant understand this. I have the 5-bar in the garageway and never felt it slippery with shoes (I spill oil and stuff on it randomly) . But i have spilled hydraulic oil by mistake on a bare alloy-plate and it was just like ice-skating walking on that stuff.

What i want to avoid is too much painting, due to upkeep. So lesser paint on the boat is better. 

Here is another guy choosing this 5bar deck plate on a huge sailboat.

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[Estar]

what is thickness of alloy for that (watertight) bulkhead?

Hmmmm. I actually don't remember but nothing special - 5mm or 6mm - we put some vertical L stiffeners on it.


I have the 5-bar in the garageway and never felt it slippery with shoes (I spill oil and stuff on it randomly) .

I agree. We have diamond plate (like 5 bar but a little different pattern) on our foredeck hatch and it has never been slippery. You will just need to wear shoes both when it is hot and cold. Keeping paint off the aluminum is an excellent idea, and I would not paint anything else, but I would paint the deck.

[zeyang]

You will just need to wear shoes both when it is hot and cold. Keeping paint off the aluminum is an excellent idea, and I would not paint anything else, but I would paint the deck. 

You guys/gals always wear shoes while sailing? I can understand when you head for Greenland but..

Last time i roamed the 7-seas i hardly remember i used any shoes at all. And only struck my toes ones out of bad luck while anchoring. I found I got better grip barefoot (but that was on a grp deck). No idea about alloy though.

zeyang

[zeyang]

I agree. We have diamond plate (like 5 bar but a little different pattern) on our foredeck hatch and it has never been slippery. 

This pattern? Maybe a little more estetically nicer to look at??

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[Estar]

You guys/gals always wear shoes while sailing? I can understand when you head for Greenland but..

In the tropics we don't wear anything, which can drive the PFD's hall monitors mad, but we have our decks painted (this stuff: http://www.durabakco...com/marine.htm) and we can walk on this paint; but the anchor hatch, sail hatch and stern platform are bare aluminum and they can get too hot to walk on comfortably. The Dashews, who have their whole deck unpainted diamond plate, are more civilized and wear clothing and shoes


This pattern?

Close . . . this one

 alum__20diamond_20plate.jpg   65.59K   4 downloads

zeyang

[zeyang]

Close . . . this one

Hey, that was a  pretty one. Right pattern is important here. Cause when the girls do sunbathing on deck they will get this pattern all over their butts. 

zeyang

[sailSAK]

My work involves quite a bit of aluminum skiff use year-round, all weather, in Alaska. We have three skiffs, one with non-skid plate, one bare alu, and one with 3-M strips. I have grown quite a hatred for the non-skid variety of aluminum plate. In the summer it works fine, but snow and ice negates any benefit and, worse yet, grips to the non skid making it difficult to keep shovel clear. Add some oil and it is slippery as ice no matter what. Bare aluminum is good if you have the right footwear, but best is some sort of non-skid finish. The 3-M adhesive style holds up great, and seems to last 2-3 years on our salt water boats which are used everyday. The 3-M strips is the only style I have yet to take a nasty fall on. Non-skid paint, interdeck etc is also great but more difficult to apply and keep looking good.

[Occams Razor]

Does Kiwigrip stick to aluminum?

I just cant see being all that happy with a factory floor deck. That's just me.

You'll have to get the girls cushions in any case.

[Estar]

Just FYI - Down in the south (Chile, S Georgia, Antarctica) steel toe freezer boots are the footwear of choice. Google Dunlop Thermoplus boots in international orange - the height of fashion - or at least the height of function - warm, waterproof, durable and non-slip. http://www.foothut.c...tons-p-598.html

[NAMT]

 

The bow is pretty strong. We have quite a heavy frame that runs up the centerline of the bow - 16mm thick x 100m deep and there is a bit of 12mm plating in the 'ice impact' area. I have both a foam filled crash box in the bow under the chain locker, and a watertight bulkhead aft of that, and integral tanks (which make a double bottom) aft of that.

Hey, that crash box was a good idea.! it means you actually have some kind of double skin where you have that box, (triple skin) if you count with that watertight bulkhead.  (what is thickness of alloy for that bulkhead?)

Since i try to "fake" a wooden keel i have 2 parallel  keel-planks going whole the way through the boat (8x200mm with different width. (mostly 15-20 cm in the bow, 30 cm in the middle and 15 cm in stern). I will seal off the bow-part of the keelbox to make it a kind of crashbox. Problem is: if ice hits me on one of the side of this box i have nothing but the outer skin. Maybe i should weld a small crashbox on both side of the waterline? maybe 20 cm above and 20 cm below waterline some 1 meter from bow and backwards and fill it with foam also.

What i plan to do with that keelbox is: some part will be used for cooling of engine, (around the area of engine). The middle part will be ballast and the bow part will be sealed off.

hmm. need to think of this some more. 




zeyang

Hi Z,
I know very little about boat building & materials.
However, I thought I might mention an idea used by friends who just completed the NW Passage, Victoria BC to Halifax NS in a 40' glass boat.
At the bow, above the waterline, & the hull & keel below the water line they ground off the gel coat & added kevlar sheets to reduce the ice damage.
Might this work for you too, or to build a crash box that may be more damage & leak proof?
Just a thought .

[Estar]

friends who just completed the NW Passage, Victoria BC to Halifax NS in a 40' glass boat.

Silent Sound?

ground off the gel coat & added kevlar sheets to reduce the ice damage.

Good idea for a glass boat, but perhaps not so good for aluminum. We looked into as an idea for ours, and getting a really reliable bond between the kevlar and the aluminum seemed difficult when you have temperature extremes and impacts. No-one would tell us it was impossible but also no-one would tell us the would guarantee it would definitely work. Bottom line is the 'serious' boats that go to the ice every year (like Skip Novak's) just have plain aluminum on their bows and they work fine.

[zeyang]

 hi, im looking for some portlights. They used to be made by a company called marine aluminum but not now anymore. anyone know where i can get some of these sturdy portlights??

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[gregj1]

 hi, im looking for some portlights. They used to be made by a company called marine aluminum but not now anymore. anyone know where i can get some of these sturdy portlights??

not quite as heavy duty but pretty nice http://www.marine-do...om/pic2801.html


 pic2801.gif   23.4K   4 downloads

I think they are made by Freeman

[Tanton Y_M]

I am really amazed by the amount of work involved into re-creating a lap strake Colin Archer. In aluminum, no less. She will be a lead mine. But I sincerely admire your endeavour.
A fraction of the time was needed to put this one together.

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[zeyang]

I am really amazed by the amount of work involved into re-creating a lap strake Colin Archer. In aluminum, no less. She will be a lead mine. But I sincerely admire your endeavour.
A fraction of the time was needed to put this one together.

thanks, that was a very nice boat you have there.  have you put in an extra plank to get higher freeboard?

can I ask what is distance from waterline to top of sheerstrake in the middle?




zeyang

[sailman]

Zeyang,

I installed new portlights from New Found Metals. Very good customer service and product quality.

Keep the updates coming!

Will Museler

[zeyang]

apropos boatbuilding. 

here is  a guy using 30 years to build a sailboat.

http://www.boston.co.../26/dream_boat/




I must say, what a dicipline!! There are too many half-finished boat laying around,, but he manage to to launch 30 years after he started. There cant be too many such people around.

Another one. www.toan.se. He only used 10 years!

I plan to finish up by late next year. I shouldnt read such stories. It get me worries. My plan is to finish by late next year. thats a  bit more than 3 years after i was starting to think about this project. 




zeyang

[Bob Perry]

Ze:
I think over the years I have learned there are people who want to build a boat and then there are people who want to go sailing. For some the building process is where the satisfaction is. For the others it's shoving off in the finished product. I've known gifted builders who were terrified of actually having to go sailing.

[zeyang]

Ze:
I think over the years I have learned there are people who want to build a boat and then there are people who want to go sailing. For some the building process is where the satisfaction is. For the others it's shoving off in the finished product. I've known gifted builders who were terrified of actually having to go sailing.

yes. my only motivation is sailing to the end of the world. the boat is only a tool. of course i want a pretty boat, but my main goal is foremost a strong boat who can take me there safely. When I get frustrated by tedious work I look at the world map in boatshed and it make me work another hour. I found boatbuiding is not difficult, only tedious and timeconsuming. so it makes me impressed when people have such dicipline to work year after year on a dream without giving up.So why didnt i just go out and buy a boat? Boatbuilding is for sure not cheaper than buying a boat. (but a good way to spread the cost over time)What I hope to gain. is understand more of such a sailing machine and manage to improve things underway. Last time i got tired of repairing and improving basically a boat who was designed for coastal waters to sail on 7 seas. I dont know how many hours i spent in harbours around to prepare such boat for polar regions. basically it was not possible, but it was all I had.This time life will be different. Do i need another layer of ice-skin in bow-area i just drag out the tigmachine and weld it that would be not possible with my old fiberglass-boat.Zeyang

[zeyang]

Ze:
I think over the years I have learned there are people who want to build a boat and then there are people who want to go sailing. For some the building process is where the satisfaction is. For the others it's shoving off in the finished product. I've known gifted builders who were terrified of actually having to go sailing.

yes. my only motivation is sailing to the end of the world. the boat is only a tool. of course i want a pretty boat, but my main goal is foremost a strong boat who can take me there safely. When I get frustrated by tedious work I look at the world map in boatshed and it make me work another hour. I found boatbuiding is not difficult, only tedious and timeconsuming. so it makes me impressed when people have such dicipline to work year after year on a dream without giving up.So why didnt i just go out and buy a boat? Boatbuilding is for sure not cheaper than buying a boat. (but a good way to spread the cost over time)What I hope to gain. is understand more of such a sailing machine and manage to improve things underway. Last time i got tired of repairing and improving basically a boat who was designed for coastal waters to sail on 7 seas. I dont know how many hours i spent in harbours around to prepare such boat for polar regions. basically it was not possible, but it was all I had.This time life will be different. Do i need another layer of ice-skin in bow-area i just drag out the tigmachine and weld it that would be not possible with my old fiberglass-boat.Zeyang

or extend the boat by 10 feet by cut it 2 and weld in a piece in middle.or switch between gaff-rig and junk-rig or some hybrid junkrig with some sort of genoa in front.such stuff would be hard to do on my old boat.zeyang

[rck]

Zeyang, the guy who took 30 years to build that boat is me, and I'm the guy that suggested a possible welding sequence to you back in post 104 of this thread. There's more on our boat in the link at the bottom of this post, but I seriously need to update that web site... trouble is I'm too busy building to find the time.

And Bob, I think it's absolutely true that there are 2 types of people who build boats... those who like the process, and those who see the building as a means to an end... going sailing as soon as possible.

The problem is that as you get up towards 45-50', the man hours needed to finish are just about overwhelming for one person who's trying to hold down a good enough job to support a mortgage and a family, tend to that family, and still find the money and at least 25-30 hours a week, 100-120 a month, to complete the job. Half a man hour per pound of displacement is not unreasonable, for a simple build from the ground up, which in my case would work out to 20,000 man hours. But I chose to go far from simple, and have closer to 35,000 hours in the whole job. Finding those hours takes many years. I've only been able to afford paying other people for about 5,000 of them... the rest are mine.

My life was quite different when I started... I knew that it was a huge project but I was making very good money flying airplanes and assumed I could pay competent help for large parts of the project. That income dried up and I found myself a couple of hundred thousand into it, with maybe 4000 hours, and no income. Now what? Just walk away, or keep going at whatever speed is doable? I chose to keep going. It takes so long working alone that everything changes during the process... of course costs go up, but design trends change, needs and wants change, gear and equipment changes, rigs, engines, everything is pretty different now from when I started, 30 years ago. But I end up with a boat I want and know, down to every last detail, and everywhere my eye comes to rest I find something that makes me smile. Plus I spent a very large amount of time on the water during those 30 years, including sailing from Halifax to Grenada, Marion-Bermuda, and 8 35 day swordfish trips to the Grand Banks in the fall.

Living in New England, I feel that boatbuilding is really winter's work, and I developed a schedule that had me going as hard as possible on the boat from late september to end of May, than hang it up completely and spend every possible minute on the water in the season. Worked for me, because burn out is a real factor if you don't get away from the project... you have to just keep breaking it down into smaller sub projects and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

We've been in the water 3 seasons now, and I'm still working... the first part of this winter on a laid teak and holly sole.
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My wife would really like a salon table, which we don't have yet, so that's probably next.

So where do I stand? Well it took this long, so I guess you could say that I'm the guy that prefers building to sailing... but once we get our last kid out of college, we'll see. Meanwhile, life has been great, and I don't regret a minute of it. This is a tremendously rewarding and satisfying thing to do, but it's clearly not for everyone.

Best, Bob

[Estar]

Zeyang, the guy who took 30 years to build that boat is me, and I'm the guy that suggested a possible welding sequence to you back in post 104 of this thread. There's more on our boat in the link at the bottom of this post, but I seriously need to update that web site... trouble is I'm too busy building to find the time.

That is an enormously impressive story and your work looks fabulous. Its wonderful to see someone with such dedication and sense of craftsmanship. You have my admiration.

We are the other sort - keen sailors but reluctant boat builders who just wanted to make a good special tool to see difficult parts of the world.

[rck]

Evans, thanks for that... I appreciate it. Oddly enough, I was just reading parts of your blog last night, and I've always admired how you forged ahead and built that purposeful, practical boat and then went out and did it. I would have contracted it out and had someone else build my hull if there had been any good metal yards around in this country in 1979, but Howdy Bailey was just starting out, as was Kanter, and Huromic was too far away. So I did it myself, and then got side tracked by life. Kids do need some security and stability, but perhaps we've given them more than they actually needed. Ah well.

I was struck by something Beth wrote a few months ago, in St. Thomas: "No commute, no pollution, no cubicle, no suit, no boss, no cranky office mates, no set schedule. No car payment, no mortgage, no monthly bills... but also no health insurance, no retirement plan, no vacation days. Well, you can't have everything."

Health insurance and retirement plans (especially retirement plans) are pretty over rated these days, as many of us sat and watched them go to hell in the last 18 months. Friends of ours are good friends of Fatty Goodlander, and I remember him telling a story of when they were sending their daughter off to college, standing on the deck of the boat she very tentatively brought up the idea of an allowance and supposedly he replied " well sure, if you could send us $25 or $50 a week we could use it, but we'll survive."

Good luck in France.

[zeyang]

Zeyang, the guy who took 30 years to build that boat is me, and I'm the guy that suggested a possible welding sequence to you back in post 104 of this thread.  There's more on our boat in the link at the bottom of this post, but I seriously need to update that web site... trouble is I'm too busy building to find the time.

Nothing more than impressive. Not about your boat, but about your persistence. When the other guys throw their legs in the sofa in afternoon and grab for the remotecontrol, you are out there working on your dream, day out and day in.

Zeyang

Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with
talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a
proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated
derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are
omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will
solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge 30th president of US (1872 - 1933)

[rck]

Good quote, Zeyang. Friends of ours (3 guys) spent 11 years building a big (56') ketch, then named her Perseverance... a great name for that kind of project. Even keeping it simple, your boat is an awfully large project for 1 guy. One of the things that worked for me, once you get a little further along, is to always have 3 or more sub projects going at the same time... 1 that your planning, sourcing parts or materials, figuring out how you're going to do it, etc., a second that you're more or less in the middle of, and a third that you're winding down on... it just needs more varnish, or final install. That way when you're stuck on one you just move to one of the other 2 and don't waste too much time being unproductive. Let the one you're stuck on sit for a day or 2 and your sub conscious will figure out the answer. I think that's one of the biggest things... just having the confidence to know that sooner or later you'll figure out a way to do it. Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which one's to keep. I try to spend 2-3 hours every day after work, at least 10 hours on saturday, and 6-8 on sunday, and it works for me... but I watch no TV and I don't sleep much. And in the summer I live on the boat, do hardly any work, and just enjoy her.

Good luck... you've done an impressive job so far.

[zeyang]

Good luck... you've done an impressive job so far.

Thanks.



Here are some observation sofar.

1. I speed up considerable when I got help (sofar some hundred hours) 2 people work more than twice due to less walking back and forth and helping eachother holding stuff while tackweld in position. Its also get some kind of inside group pressure to work faster,besides its gives more pleasure being more.

2. Putting in 30 hours a week means some kind of focus. Keeping those hours week out and week in, needs a little planning a head. Its so easy to get stuck into a problem, then everything grind to halt. Need a way to switch focus and work on something else (like you said) Im getting there soon to have different projects going at the same time.

3. An hour in freezing condition in the shed is something different from an hour in front of the computer beside the fireplace. Keeping up the motivation to be outside there another hour from 9pm to 10pm means some kind of inside pressure. Every hours adds up considerable in the end. 

4. I keep a diary and write down every hour to see what i spend time on. its a motivation boost to look back on it. Ill avoid working in weekends and just drive away from the boat and the farm. Also need to socialize, else i loose my ability to speak. (talking to my dog doesn't count)

5. Keeping up the morale in some way. Need some kind of carrot to push for that next hour if motivation is slipping. A cup of warm tea in 50 minutes is a good treat. Stuff like this. Look at the map for a few minutes and start sailing inside the mind is another good one. 
Ahh, well. 





zeyang

[Tanton Y_M]

I am really amazed by the amount of work involved into re-creating a lap strake Colin Archer. In aluminum, no less. She will be a lead mine. But I sincerely admire your endeavour.
A fraction of the time was needed to put this one together.

thanks, that was a very nice boat you have there. have you put in an extra plank to get higher freeboard?

can I ask what is distance from waterline to top of sheerstrake in the middle?




zeyan

Lowest freeboard location: To top of Bulwark 3'-8 3/8" 1127mm; top of Deck at Side, 3'-0 3/8" 924mm. The choice is, either carry the side plates to the top of the bulwark,for less welding, or to the deck at side; with the addition of building the bulwark above.

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[Hike, Bitches!]

Bob (rck Bob) - Although I've only recently been able to secure my own vessel, I've been cruising (& racing) my whole life. We've left the salon table up more countless more times than we've put it down. If it didn't drop down to make another bunk for the occasional guests, I'd probably take it off the boat.

The rest of this is way over my head. I am feeling overwhelmed trying to fix one chainplate and replacing the wiring and standing rigging in my 30'-er this winter.

You boat building types are inspiring. I'll just keep reading.

[zeyang]

Im welding up that crashbox of mine. Hopefully it will be enough if i hit an iceberg straight on.(a little poor picturequality. Im using my old mobile to take this picture)

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[rck]

Bitches, I've been following your thread all along and it sounds like you're doing just fine with that boat. Just keep assuming there's nothing you can't handle, and you'll get it done.

The table has not been high on my priority list and the fact that I'm thinking about it at all indicates that we are inching ever so slowly closer to sort of finished. The boat's big enough that the table won't be in the way, but the problem is that my wife wants to be able to turn a dining room into a living room, so she wants it to be able to drop and probably fold to make more like a coffee table. She's put up with an awful lot of craziness over the years; I figure it's the least I can do to keep her happy as far as the boat is concerned. But I haven't actually designed the thing yet, much less built it... we'll see.

Along the same lines, the guy on the mooring next to us has a beautiful Seguin 46... one of only 2 built with the short house. Gorgeous boat. He removed his salon table for a passage south last year... said it was always in the way... and hasn't put it back yet. But his wife is not into the boat and is rarely aboard. And we have a lot more room to play with, to get it out of the way.

Zeyang, that box keel will help stiffen her but I still hope you weld some temporary stuff across inside before you roll her, and don't depend just on the wood frames to hold her shape unless you know they're awfully stout and well attached.

[sam_crocker]

Im welding up that crashbox of mine. Hopefully it will be enough if i hit an iceberg straight on.(a little poor picturequality. Im using my old mobile to take this picture)

I feel sorry for the icebergs.......

[Paps]

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread, you two are starting to make me feel inadequate!! lol.

[Paps]

Actually I am superior in one aspect. At the moment I am sitting with my laptop on the beach at Terrigal north of Sydney, blue skies, good surf about 30C.

[zeyang]

working on welding up the stern keelbox and prop app.

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[zeyang]

Stern is tackwelded in place. Not always easy to do stuff when i try to make it look like wood, but it get indeed strong.

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[Soñadora]

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread, you two are starting to make me feel inadequate!! lol.

yeah...now I want to build my own boat!

it will be a big one. Most likely take up the whole fireplace mantle.

[zeyang]

got myself 3 9 tonns chainhoist on an auction. nice to have when flipping the boat.

and besides it was totally 60 meter of 10mm chain i can use at later stage.

zeyang 

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[SemiSalt]

Living in New England, I feel that boatbuilding is really winter's work, ...

That would be the method of professionals, and (traditionally) of fishermen who need a boat for next summer. My internet circle includes mostly amateurs who stop when it gets too cold for epoxy.

[rck]

Semi, around here it rarely gets too cold for epoxy... except when it's in the teens for a few days in a row, and that's usually only 2 or 3 times a winter. I use the slow cure West sytem, and with the boat sealed up and well insulated 2 little electric cube heaters get it up into the 50's by noon time, and it keeps climbing. There are days when I wait and do all the epoxy work for that day late in the day, say 5 to 7, then leave the heat on and come out at mid night and shut it down. In the shop it's not too much of a problem, as long as I'm willing to pay for the heat... I've never had anything fail to cure as long as I kept the temps in the 50's for a few hours until it kicks. Now if I were doing a wood hull all west system outdoors with no heat, there would be problems. I try not to do too much in the boat if it's in the low 20's or below outside, but there's always something to do in the shop. When I was welding the hull with no heat 25 was my cut off... too much moisture in the welds without pre heat... but again, there was always something to do in the shop.

Best, Bob

[zeyang]

keel plank is tackwelded into position.  the small ears are just temporary fasterners. 

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[zeyang]

making template for bowplank.

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[zeyang]

work on the bow today. will tackweld into position tomorrow.
also made a test how the rudder would be.

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[NAMT]

work on the bow today. will tackweld into position tomorrow.
also made a test how the rudder would be.

A few months ago I saw a boat on the hard (expensive, factory built, double-ender design) with the owner having had big problems with his rudder, prop & shaft.
He found he could not remove the prop without removing the rudder - no cut away.
Earlier he had experienced problems with pintles & gudgeons that a yard had fixed & beefed up in a way that later made it really difficult to remove the rudder with the shaft & prop in place!
I do not have the details, pics etc but I hope others here may have a few words about the rudder installation that may save you big headaches later.
Anyone have any info & ideas about the problem I have described?

[sailman]

work on the bow today. will tackweld into position tomorrow.
also made a test how the rudder would be.

Looking great Zeyang and nice welding helmet too!

[zeyang]

finish up the keelplank (+ bow/stern)

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[zeyang]

apropos bow-plank. this is my favorite shape. need to figure out how to make this in alloy.

The boat with name Liv (Life) is an original colin archer. (one of the few left)




zeyang

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[zeyang]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

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[sailman]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.

[zeyang]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.

Pictures please :-)


zeyang

[sailman]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.

Pictures please :-)


zeyang

Really!???!!

Early rendition

Here is the thread that startetd it all.

[zeyang]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.

Pictures please :-)


zeyang

Really!???!!

Early rendition

Here is the thread that startetd it all.

wow. only 348 pages. :-) no wonder i havent read that thread. 


Give 100 guys a question about their dreamboat and you got 100 answers. I think only way to fulfill a mans dreamboat is to make it himself. then, at least he cant complain  :-)

zeyang

[sailman]

this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang

Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.

Pictures please :-)


zeyang

Really!???!!

Early rendition

Here is the thread that startetd it all.

wow. only 348 pages. :-) no wonder i havent read that thread. 


Give 100 guys a question about their dreamboat and you got 100 answers. I think only way to fulfill a mans dreamboat is to make it himself. then, at least he cant complain  :-)

zeyang

zeyang,

We actually came up with a really cool design that attracted a builder and got a write up in Sailing magazine. The group, self named WLYDO [World's Largest Yacht Design Office] also worked with Bob Perry on a 46 footer, a 32 and a 21. It was a really cool discussion.

Will Museler

[zeyang]

[quote name='sailman' post='2624171' date='Dec 18 2009, 04:19 PM'][quote name='zeyang' post='2624152' date='Dec 18 2009, 10:11 AM'][quote name='sailman' post='2623963' date='Dec 18 2009, 01:15 PM'][quote name='zeyang' post='2623851' date='Dec 18 2009, 02:25 AM'][quote name='sailman' post='2623547' date='Dec 18 2009, 04:04 AM'][quote name='zeyang' post='2623074' date='Dec 17 2009, 04:36 PM']this is my dream bow from boyhood when i was strolling up and down the pier. For those feinsmeckers out there, this is Grinde  by Peter Bruun.  

oh my g.., i think i have a kind of bowshape fetish. 

zeyang[/quote]
Looks like a modified Bob Perry Captain's Courageous CA36 bow.
[/quote]
Pictures please :-)


zeyang
[/quote]
Really!???!!

Early rendition

Here is the thread that startetd it all.
[/quote]

wow. only 348 pages. :-) no wonder i havent read that thread. 


Give 100 guys a question about their dreamboat and you got 100 answers. I think only way to fulfill a mans dreamboat is to make it himself. then, at least he cant complain  :-)

zeyang
[/quote]
zeyang,

We actually came up with a really cool design that attracted a builder and got a write up in Sailing magazine. The group, self named WLYDO [World's Largest Yacht Design Office] also worked with Bob Perry on a 46 footer, a 32 and a 21. It was a really cool discussion.

Will Museler
[/quote]

Thats really cool :-) One day, I promise I will read that thread closely.  Been working in the open source community,i think there should be a open source boat someday and run a kind of coop boatbuilding school where people could learn the basics how to build in their backyard.

If we look back 30 years there were many who build their own boat (at least over here) , but for some reason today it seems fairly unusual to do this. Its a little pity. 




zeyang

[Bob Perry]

Ze:
I really like that Bruun design also. I'm not wild about the generous radius on the stem though. I like bows that cleave the water and don't push the water. Lapworth, Tripp Sr. and Chance did quite a few bows with big radii on the stems. It was easy to laminate but I think the designs of today show that it's not fast. When I see a boat moving along and shooting a big plume of water straight up the stem I think "wasted energy".

Where exactly are you?

[austin1972]

Zeyang,
Winter is settling in, so I wouldn't be surprised if WLYDO takes on a new project.