[Editor]

From the book Saving Sailing by Nicholas Hayes. Short but compelling. Order up to get a copy.

The online excerpt of Saving Sailing cites some basic age demographics of U.S. sailors. The book will offer many more statistics and trends about sailing and free time, and of course, how and why we might Save Sailing in the future. In the meantime, here is a simple tidbit that tells a lot about the current state of sailing affairs. Among almost 1200 sailors interviewed, 59% said that they have over 20 years of experience and call themselves experts (I see no reason to deny their claims -- if you believe that years of practice count for something).

The downside? Where are the newcomers and why don’t they seem to stick around? Given all this experience, you’d think we’d be doing a better job passing it on. Note: Given the large size of this sample, we can be 95% confident that the data is representative, with less than a 3% margin of error. Comments?

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[Vang Tang]

What I see in this graph is that around 6-10 years of experience (be it the end of junior sailing or junior and collegiate sailing or a typical "I did this sport, took some classes, now what sport next" cycle, there is a divergance between those that keep striving for sailing excellence and those that use it merely for recreation. There is an entire industry devoted to this segment, they had a self appointed leader once who was severely beat down.....he who shall not be named. There are backyards and marinas filled with boats whose owners, for whatever reason, choose not to submerge themselves into the sport to the level where they can consider themselves an "expert" when surveyed. I'd bet money that the "expert" upstroke is much more curved than the this primitive 8 bit graph depicts. I like that there's an uptick in the "student" role in the greater than 20 years section, it could be an indication that true experts realize that they are still learning as well..... ahhh grashopper.

I don't think this graph addresses the premise of your question Ed, it just merely shows what happens to the expertese level of the numbers, not what the numbers are. In fact one would deduce from this chart that students supply the novices which supplies the experts. If novices went up with more years of experience on this chart, that would indicate systemic sailing retardation or a massive humility outbreak, neither of which sounds very American to me.

Clearly, a large part of the answer to your direct question is exposure, culture and
access. Those with the aforementioned are much more likely to become part of the pie and stick around. If we want to cultivate a healthier sailing population with good number retention, I firmly believe mainstreaming the sport is necessary. Community sailing centers in every town with a puddle, big or small, with supply lines coming from the education system; K-12, Collegiate and Adult Education/Continued Learning centers. This would need to be coupled with a healthy nationalized professional or semi-pro sailing program that had great and consistent media exposure in the mainstream. There is much more to it than that for sure as this is a daunting task, but one that all the "Experts" should be working on.

[waterboy]

Editor, on Jul 24 2009, 01:27 AM, said:

From the book Saving Sailing by Nicholas Hayes. Short but compelling. Order up to get a copy.

The online excerpt of Saving Sailing cites some basic age demographics of U.S. sailors. The book will offer many more statistics and trends about sailing and free time, and of course, how and why we might Save Sailing in the future. In the meantime, here is a simple tidbit that tells a lot about the current state of sailing affairs. Among almost 1200 sailors interviewed, 59% said that they have over 20 years of experience and call themselves experts (I see no reason to deny their claims -- if you believe that years of practice count for something).

The downside? Where are the newcomers and why don’t they seem to stick around? Given all this experience, you’d think we’d be doing a better job passing it on. Note: Given the large size of this sample, we can be 95% confident that the data is representative, with less than a 3% margin of error. Comments?

That is one confusing plot. For example- how can one be a novice with 20 years of experience? Or be an expert with 2 years of experience?

I question your statistical conclusions- 95% and 3%? Where does that come from?

[BrassMonkey]

I too question your statistics. How did you insure that your 1200 interviews were random? Would not a polling taken dockside at a series of regattas look exactly like what you have plotted, but also not be representative of the sport as a whole?

[RoadKill]

I question the definition of "student". Is the author's use that of "sailing school student" such as those found in a kids or adult training program, "high school sailing program student", "college sailing program student", or some combination? Clearly, amoungst these "student" groups there would be those who would classify themselves as "students", "novices", and perhaps "experts" (like college kids who compete in the olympic trials for example). So I'm not sure what the author is trying to convey with the chart.

The conclusion that I draw from the chart is that it takes a while to sail a boat well (i.e.; competitively), and is consistent with my experience.

[Billy Bones]

Wait a fucking moment. Sailing Anarchy's traditional greeting for new people is a resounding "FUCK OFF NOOB!" and now you're scratching your asses about where the youngsters are?

Take the graph and put it in context of the times. Young people are getting put off in part because many, the louder component, of the "old school" are not worth emulating.

Talk to the hand, asshats.

[polluted]

waterboy, on Jul 24 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

That is one confusing plot. For example- how can one be a novice with 20 years of experience? Or be an expert with 2 years of experience?

Because lots of people end up with the same year of experience 20 times over.

Think about the guys that trim jib on a few phrf boats april-october for their entire adult life, as opposed to those who started out in an opti, boat-whored around their parents' club, experimented with a moth, tried some iceboating in the winter, spent a summer on a scow in minnesota, and bareboated in the carribean.

Sometimes for whatever reason you stop learning, and one of a few things happen.

1) It's not as much fun and you drop out, or
2) You have enough self-insight to know you're a novice and plod on recognizing it as such, or
3) You do something to change and start learning again, or
4) You overestimate your expertise (because now you can afford to buy the same boat you've been sailing your whole life).

I think this graph conveys all 4. And yes, I am wrapping up my 8th season of doing roughly the same thing and trying to decide what's next.

[1stM8]

Its and experience curve. Though I would quesiton why there isn't an intermediate level. You're a novice then then an expert? In their own minds.

I would say the poll was not constructed properly and the sample is not representative of all of sailing.

[FlyingCircus]

I love metrics, You can make them say whatever you want.....

Why does 20 years of sailing make one an "expert" if it is 20 years of day trips in good weather of an afternoon sail thsi make one an expert? On the other hand some one who races and trains and works the continous learning curve I woudl tend to believe is a much beter sailor...

I believe that are a lot of great sailors out there Do they consider themselves experts or just at the top of their game???? I still learning and I have been sailing since an very early age I do not consider myself an expert lots of expirence but no way an expert.

As to the Question of new folks, I bring new folks on board all the time some stay some do not. The ones that have stayed are still sailing adn have their own boats now.

Metrics, What do you want them to say??????

Cheers,
FC

[Billy Bones]

The graph is entirely representative of my sailing community, and the OP suggested we can rely on it. Don't dismiss it simply because it tells you something you don't want to hear.

For whom is sailing an easy, fun experience?

-kids who can attend a sailing camp or who have access to friends' boats,

-older people who can afford a yc membership, a slip at a marina, etc.

21-30yo's are the group of people with the energy and enthusiasm to keep sailing relevant, yet for the majority of them sailing is out of reach, and out of touch.

[willk]

That graph does not represent anything that happens on our little lake. Here we sit on the best sailing water in 300 miles and only two active owners exist. (Own 9 boats between us) Everyone we talk to about sailing says "Oh How Beautiful they are" So, we ask them to come out and give it a try. They always say, maybe tomorrow but I can't today. You guessed it, tomorrow Never comes. Those few that do, get a day of sailing. We let them take the helm, sail the boat, feel the beauty, but stay close enough so that they don't get into a situation that might get them scared. Give em free drinks (this is Louisiana so the drinks are the soft drink kind) Food and everything else consumable that we might have aboard. Offer them to come back any time. They never do.

What is the only sport growing in America. NASCAR's version of deomlition derby. Yes they call it a race but everyone comes to see the big one, and I don't mean the big winner. They sit on thier couch (or if they are particularly active, attend the race in person and sit in the stands) and wait for the "Big One." SIT IS THE KEY WORD. We are thrilled to see new homes built along our lake, but half or more could have been built next to the city dump. A big picture of a lake in the living room would suffice and serve the same purpose as purchasing a lake lot and building a home. Except to mow the grass (which is normally hired out) no one ever ventures outside. Yes, I do beleive we need to focus on the boats most people sail. I know the advertisers want to focus on boats that make their advertisers a lot of money per unit. (read boats larger than my house and considerably more expensive) But until America gets off its ASS and starts real health care reform It is just not sailing that is dying.

Billy Bones you are so right about the Fuck Off Noob. Great way to win friends and influence future sailors.

[gasoline]

polluted, on Jul 24 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

waterboy, on Jul 24 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

That is one confusing plot. For example- how can one be a novice with 20 years of experience? Or be an expert with 2 years of experience?

Because lots of people end up with the same year of experience 20 times over.

Think about the guys that trim jib on a few phrf boats april-october for their entire adult life, as opposed to those who started out in an opti, boat-whored around their parents' club, experimented with a moth, tried some iceboating in the winter, spent a summer on a scow in minnesota, and bareboated in the carribean.

Sometimes for whatever reason you stop learning, and one of a few things happen.

1) It's not as much fun and you drop out, or
2) You have enough self-insight to know you're a novice and plod on recognizing it as such, or
3) You do something to change and start learning again, or
4) You overestimate your expertise (because now you can afford to buy the same boat you've been sailing your whole life).

I think this graph conveys all 4. And yes, I am wrapping up my 8th season of doing roughly the same thing and trying to decide what's next.

You see this is why most people stay away from sailing. Clearly it is a rich man's sport! Is this kind of thing normal around here? "..their parents' club..."? "iceboating"? Summers in Minnesota? Winters in the Caribbean?
Wow.

I can't wait to hear about demographic (racial) and economic data in this book.

I'd also like to see what they have concluded about adults who take sailing classes as opposed to "youth sailing". The author seems to be heavily involved in community sailing programs.

[gasoline]

willk, on Jul 24 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

That graph does not represent anything that happens on our little lake. Here we sit on the best sailing water in 300 miles and only two active owners exist. (Own 9 boats between us) Everyone we talk to about sailing says "Oh How Beautiful they are" So, we ask them to come out and give it a try. They always say, maybe tomorrow but I can't today. You guessed it, tomorrow Never comes. Those few that do, get a day of sailing. We let them take the helm, sail the boat, feel the beauty, but stay close enough so that they don't get into a situation that might get them scared. Give em free drinks (this is Louisiana so the drinks are the soft drink kind) Food and everything else consumable that we might have aboard. Offer them to come back any time. They never do.

What is the only sport growing in America. NASCAR's version of deomlition derby. Yes they call it a race but everyone comes to see the big one, and I don't mean the big winner. They sit on thier couch (or if they are particularly active, attend the race in person and sit in the stands) and wait for the "Big One." SIT IS THE KEY WORD. We are thrilled to see new homes built along our lake, but half or more could have been built next to the city dump. A big picture of a lake in the living room would suffice and serve the same purpose as purchasing a lake lot and building a home. Except to mow the grass (which is normally hired out) no one ever ventures outside. Yes, I do beleive we need to focus on the boats most people sail. I know the advertisers want to focus on boats that make their advertisers a lot of money per unit. (read boats larger than my house and considerably more expensive) But until America gets off its ASS and starts real health care reform It is just not sailing that is dying.

Billy Bones you are so right about the Fuck Off Noob. Great way to win friends and influence future sailors.

A while back I suggested that sailing should target adults who are already into the outdoors like campers and hikers etc.
What we need to ascertain is whether or not other outdoor sports are in decline as well before we run with the stereotype of the lazy American. Also, we need to find out whether or not sailing is showing growth (steady or sudden) in other countries and what we can learn from them.

[kent_island_sailor]

I can't figure out exactly what in hell this graph is trying to say or how it was done.
That said, I can sort of agree with the semi-conclusion.

Kids sail until college and then no more.
There is an aging population of sailors about 45 years +.
Not much in between.

Any club I look into I am the youngest one there and it never changes. No matter how old I get, I never "catch up".

Look into the life situation of a 30 year old then and now.
THEN: At age 30 my father had a good job, a decent house, 2 kids, a wife, and a 25 foot sailboat (our 3rd boat). It was entirely typical back then to start at the bottom (Cal 20 anyone for family cruising :lol:) and work your way up. Anyone that got to the 35-40 foot level was doing well AND knew what they were doing.
NOW: A 30 year old is likely fresh out of mom and dad's house in debt up to his/her eyeballs in student loans, and EVEN NOW wondering how the hell they will ever buy a house. A "yacht", "yacht club", and "yacht racing" are as likely to be something they would attempt as buying a rocket for a vacation on Mars.

*when I was 30 I was flying cargo in Hawaii and was lucky to afford FOOD :o

[kent_island_sailor]

Reminds me of that Onion headline: "Rich Guy Wins Yacht Race" :P

There was a magic two or three decades, say 1960-1985 or so, when the miracle of fiberglass made sailing something for the masses.
Maybe it was always destined to be an anomaly.

If you look into the history of many small boats, i.e. Lightning, Snipe, Penguin, Opti, Comet, etc., they had their genesis back in the 1900-1930 era as cheap boats you could build yourself for some sailing fun since NFW was the average guy buying the racing keelboats of the day. Between the cotton sails and wooden hull even for free you weren't going to keep it running for long.

gasoline, on Jul 24 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

polluted, on Jul 24 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

waterboy, on Jul 24 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

That is one confusing plot. For example- how can one be a novice with 20 years of experience? Or be an expert with 2 years of experience?

Because lots of people end up with the same year of experience 20 times over.

Think about the guys that trim jib on a few phrf boats april-october for their entire adult life, as opposed to those who started out in an opti, boat-whored around their parents' club, experimented with a moth, tried some iceboating in the winter, spent a summer on a scow in minnesota, and bareboated in the carribean.

Sometimes for whatever reason you stop learning, and one of a few things happen.

1) It's not as much fun and you drop out, or
2) You have enough self-insight to know you're a novice and plod on recognizing it as such, or
3) You do something to change and start learning again, or
4) You overestimate your expertise (because now you can afford to buy the same boat you've been sailing your whole life).

I think this graph conveys all 4. And yes, I am wrapping up my 8th season of doing roughly the same thing and trying to decide what's next.

You see this is why most people stay away from sailing. Clearly it is a rich man's sport! Is this kind of thing normal around here? "..their parents' club..."? "iceboating"? Summers in Minnesota? Winters in the Caribbean?
Wow.

I can't wait to hear about demographic (racial) and economic data in this book.

I'd also like to see what they have concluded about adults who take sailing classes as opposed to "youth sailing". The author seems to be heavily involved in community sailing programs.

[polluted]

gasoline, on Jul 24 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

polluted, on Jul 24 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

waterboy, on Jul 24 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

That is one confusing plot. For example- how can one be a novice with 20 years of experience? Or be an expert with 2 years of experience?

Because lots of people end up with the same year of experience 20 times over.

Think about the guys that trim jib on a few phrf boats april-october for their entire adult life, as opposed to those who started out in an opti, boat-whored around their parents' club, experimented with a moth, tried some iceboating in the winter, spent a summer on a scow in minnesota, and bareboated in the carribean.

Sometimes for whatever reason you stop learning, and one of a few things happen.

1) It's not as much fun and you drop out, or
2) You have enough self-insight to know you're a novice and plod on recognizing it as such, or
3) You do something to change and start learning again, or
4) You overestimate your expertise (because now you can afford to buy the same boat you've been sailing your whole life).

I think this graph conveys all 4. And yes, I am wrapping up my 8th season of doing roughly the same thing and trying to decide what's next.

You see this is why most people stay away from sailing. Clearly it is a rich man's sport! Is this kind of thing normal around here? "..their parents' club..."? "iceboating"? Summers in Minnesota? Winters in the Caribbean?
Wow.

I can't wait to hear about demographic (racial) and economic data in this book.

I'd also like to see what they have concluded about adults who take sailing classes as opposed to "youth sailing". The author seems to be heavily involved in community sailing programs.

There are enough examples of money vs. sailing skill (gear-to-game ratio) in both directions that I don't think net worth matters as much as breadth of experience. This was more of a compilation of several sailors I have met and would consider to be on their way to experts, and the example should have been phrased a little differently.

Some of the sailors I am thinking of have made sacrifices in other areas of their lives to be able to expand their sailing experience, whether it's saving up and spending what money and vacation they have on a little adventure, leaving a dissatisfying office job to sail on a tall ship and live on peanuts, working sail-friendly summer jobs in college, or consciously making an effort to find a job in a locale where they can sail a longer season. Others of us do the same thing for a few months year after year and do little to expand our experience, hence the 20 year novice and the false expert.

The distribution of novice vs. expert and the attrition rates may not be entirely crazy.

[Winever]

So, ah Ed...how much did you get for pimping this book?

Winever.

[willk]

gasoline, on Jul 24 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

A while back I suggested that sailing should target adults who are already into the outdoors like campers and hikers etc.
What we need to ascertain is whether or not other outdoor sports are in decline as well before we run with the stereotype of the lazy American. Also, we need to find out whether or not sailing is showing growth (steady or sudden) in other countries and what we can learn from them.

Water skiing is all but dead. 15 years ago, professional skiing was flourishing and amature competitive skiing had full tournaments. Now there are very few professionals and very, very few professional tournaments. Water skiing is as hard if not harder to learn than sailing. Competitive shooting is a sport I still participate in. While the people who are scared they are loosing their rights are buying up everything they can find, the competitions and competitors are way down. (except the bang bang bang quick draw games where the targets are five feet away and missing is far more difficult than hitting) Many are talking about the participation in their shooting sport as being almost gone. I recently held a match and three comptitors showed up. Of course our shooting is hard, takes practice, is not automatic. Now, riding around the lake in a tube, being pulled by the mini-van version of boating (the semi-deep V runabout) that is really growing. I am not aware of the situation of sports like tennis, competitive swimming, or biking where real work and real activity is involved, but I do beleive that any sport where sitting is the main activity, seems to be growing and any sport where using brain, mucles, or other body parts not associated with the the fatty tissue at the bottom of the back seem to be declining. Too me, it seems if it is easy, it draws people (tubing, SASS matches) If it is hard, it is dying.

So, not one of my words were scentifically gathered. (except IHMSA which is definitly in decline) So take it as you will. However, it does seem that sitting "seems" to be America's #1 favorite sport.

(I intenstionally ignored running because I don't really pay attention to it. However, I hear less and less of local 5k's etc. Golf? It could be a great activity but riding around in a cart and only getting up to swing at a ball every now and then just does not compare to tennis, or swimming or any other active sport.

[M24_Brinksmanship]

Lies
Damm Lies
And Statistics
manipulate them any way you want & they tell you what you want.
The only true stats come on race day.

Read Outliers ... maybe some parents just tried to over schedule their kids. So they don't sail. Maybe others are like me & figure that some day I'll get that 10,000 hours on the helm in ....

[Becalmed]

The importance of this statistic lies is the definition of expert/novice/student. I guess I have to buy the book to get that insight (good sell job Ed). Funny thing.... I've won an ISAF national championship, done reasonably well in some internationals, but I consider myself a student of the sport for certain. There is always something to learn, and so many different classes to play in and start again from the bottom. Expert by no means, those are the old duffers at the bar complaining about handicaps.

[RIGHTisWRONG]

Ed, I feel sorry for you dude. You're obviously trying to hold a sane, scientific discussion about the death of our very reason to be here, sailing. In my experience its a wealth of reasons why it's on the decline:

1. Asshats that run marinas, like municipal dicks, who think they can gouge you in the eye, monthly, and expect you to say "thanks" for it.
2. Asshats who manipulate PHRF boards to get their rating as high as possible, and your's as low as possible, to compensate for their small dicks.
3. Asshats who sale/repair/transport boats who, like their marina manager counterparts, enjoy gouging your other eye, with the same expectations.
4. Video games. What would you rather do as a lazy teen? Sweat your ass off in some slow expensive plastic tub, with an adult watching you, or play video games with your chums at 4am, when your parents are exhausted and defeated?
5. Yacht clubs. The ultimate turnoff. Chock full of asshats who think their shit don't stink cause their a "member" and you ain't and prove the point every chance they get. How many times have you attend another cheesy yacht club awards ceremony as a "guest" were you were fed crappy food, expensive beer, and all the bitchy cunts you can stand in one afternoon, just to celebrate asshat #2 above, getting yet another pickle-dish with his hired semi-pro-sailmaker-helmsman-egomanic-jerk and his under-rated-PHRF-cheater-boat?

Solve these 5 small problems and you've saved sailing!

[kent_island_sailor]

Back in the day water skiers were a major PITA. They were always hosing up your favorite anchorage or trying to spray you. (Or dickheads were anchoring their boats in your best ski spot, depending on if you had the sailboat or the ski boat out)
I think it has been YEARS since I have seen a water skier anyplace.

willk, on Jul 24 2009, 12:28 PM, said:

gasoline, on Jul 24 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

A while back I suggested that sailing should target adults who are already into the outdoors like campers and hikers etc.
What we need to ascertain is whether or not other outdoor sports are in decline as well before we run with the stereotype of the lazy American. Also, we need to find out whether or not sailing is showing growth (steady or sudden) in other countries and what we can learn from them.

Water skiing is all but dead. 15 years ago, professional skiing was flourishing and amature competitive skiing had full tournaments. Now there are very few professionals and very, very few professional tournaments. Water skiing is as hard if not harder to learn than sailing. Competitive shooting is a sport I still participate in. While the people who are scared they are loosing their rights are buying up everything they can find, the competitions and competitors are way down. (except the bang bang bang quick draw games where the targets are five feet away and missing is far more difficult than hitting) Many are talking about the participation in their shooting sport as being almost gone. I recently held a match and three comptitors showed up. Of course our shooting is hard, takes practice, is not automatic. Now, riding around the lake in a tube, being pulled by the mini-van version of boating (the semi-deep V runabout) that is really growing. I am not aware of the situation of sports like tennis, competitive swimming, or biking where real work and real activity is involved, but I do beleive that any sport where sitting is the main activity, seems to be growing and any sport where using brain, mucles, or other body parts not associated with the the fatty tissue at the bottom of the back seem to be declining. Too me, it seems if it is easy, it draws people (tubing, SASS matches) If it is hard, it is dying.

So, not one of my words were scentifically gathered. (except IHMSA which is definitly in decline) So take it as you will. However, it does seem that sitting "seems" to be America's #1 favorite sport.

(I intenstionally ignored running because I don't really pay attention to it. However, I hear less and less of local 5k's etc. Golf? It could be a great activity but riding around in a cart and only getting up to swing at a ball every now and then just does not compare to tennis, or swimming or any other active sport.

[cokaer]

No doubt sailing is down significantly in the past 20 years.

But on the brighter side, it seems to me that attendance at Jr. Regattas is much higher in recent years. I've been seeing Optimist regattas with 300 kids registered and 420 regattas with well over 100.

Anyone have any insights on membership trends in USODA or Club 420 Class, etc.?

Also, how has membership in US Sailing fared in recent years?

[syrenab32]

Author here.

I'll be putting together a summary of the research; how it was conducted, population, methods, blah, blah, blah, to answer questions about sources and bias control, and I'll post it to the book/blog and here shortly for anyone that cares about stats and sample size.

But let's nip this one now: ED has been nothing but completely supportive of this project for months and has no financial stake. Not a dime.

He's taken the time (many hours of it) to listen to how the project began and developed, and he's graciously shared his own perspectives. While he hasn't read more than short excerpts, he's aware of the basic storyline and conclusions, and flat out said "Whatever it brings, I support this worthy project," a few months ago.

I'm humbled to have his support.

[Method9455]

Follow the money.

Gas got really expensive. If you have ever looked at the books of companies in the overall industry (i.e. aside from Harken, the sail and spar manufactuers, and the sailboat builders) sailboats and especially racing sailboats make up a tiny fraction of the revenue. What happened to Boater's World? Why is West Marine in trouble? There are fewer and fewer stores, distributors, builders, mechanics, and marinas because people with 18-28' trailerable powerboats are getting out of the lifestyle, and nobody is replacing them. That makes the upkeep on a boat more expensive for us. This is a last 5 years thing that put the death nail in a lot of businesses.

Boats have been getting more expensive for years and years. My dad's first boat was a plywood runabout he build from a Popular Mechanics design in middle school wood shop. His first sailboat was an iceboat he built in his garage. When he was in high school he had a waterski boat he built with a motor he bought used. His first production boat was a J24 after college, but at that point he had been boating for 8-10 years. For me, I picked up a Laser at age 14 for about $800 - but only because I belonged to a yacht club and knew somebody. But if I wanted a powerboat I just couldn't do it. Even if I built a boat the cheapest 150+ HP is over 10 grand. You have to spend $20k + to buy a reasonable 24' center console. One of my neighbors "got into" boating buying a $80,000 bowrider! That is 4x what a decent car costs today. My dad's first boat cost about what his first car cost.

I've seen data in Professional Boatbuilder that backs that point up, the cost of the "first" boat is about 4x in inflation adjusted dollars as it was in the 60s/70s. That is keeping new blood out of the small boat market and that is hurting the industry overall.

This happens because the profits are larger boats are so much better. If you are building a boat, a lot of the costs are fixed, and few are variable based on the length of the boat. Compare a 22' and a 28' center console powerboat. The difference in MSRP is enormous, but either way you need about the same sized mold, about the same amount of materials, the same electronics install complexity, the same type of engine harness and controls, the same amount of effort to build a T-top, the same time to install 1 fuel tank and mount 1 or 2 motors. Why make the smaller version? The same is true at the big end comparing 40', 65' and 80' sport fish or sailboats.

What would bring it back are lower priced entry level boats for both power and sail. Bring the price of a new 21' powerboat or 24' sailboat down to 30k and things would be a lot better.

And opening the culture would help wonders. SA is full of people who yell at noobs. Its funny to those of us who get the joke. But think about what the external perception of sailing is. We are a bunch of guys hanging out on boats that are very expensive often at clubs that are expensive and exclusionary, and then they come online and get yelled at by the people doing it. Does it sound like we want to add more people?

Contrast that with other sports that are trying to add members, you go into a forum and people try to help you out and are welcoming (hell, at least they say Hi). To quote a cliche, I think that SA is more a part of the problem than the solution.