493 replies to this topic

[Steam Flyer]

... ... ...

wait... whaat? the spinsheets run under the deck?

as in ... into the boat, under the deck?

just doesn't seem that practical... for many different reasons...

No believe me, it's awesome

That way the spinnaker trimmer can chill in the quarterberth.


FB- Doug

[miahmouse]

... ... ...

wait... whaat? the spinsheets run under the deck?

as in ... into the boat, under the deck?

just doesn't seem that practical... for many different reasons...

No believe me, it's awesome

That way the spinnaker trimmer can chill in the quarterberth.


FB- Doug

hehe...

[Jim Donovan]

... ... ...

wait... whaat? the spinsheets run under the deck?

as in ... into the boat, under the deck?

just doesn't seem that practical... for many different reasons...

No believe me, it's awesome

That way the spinnaker trimmer can chill in the quarterberth.


FB- Doug

Sheave goes into the carbon box glued to inside of topsides, goes through tube and exits at the rachet block on deck.
Fairly typical arrangement on lots of large dingy and small keelboat classes, although often not made watertight.
My system is watertight.

Here are some photos from a long time ago, when I was first fitting the hardware.

Attached Files

•  Spin Sheet Sheave.jpg   34.26K   367 downloads
•  IMAGE_006.jpg   370.36K   397 downloads

[WCB]

... ... ...

wait... whaat? the spinsheets run under the deck?

as in ... into the boat, under the deck?

just doesn't seem that practical... for many different reasons...

No believe me, it's awesome

That way the spinnaker trimmer can chill in the quarterberth.


FB- Doug

Sheave goes into the carbon box glued to inside of topsides, goes through tube and exits at the rachet block on deck.
Fairly typical arrangement on lots of large dingy and small keelboat classes, although often not made watertight.
My system is watertight.

Here are some photos from a long time ago, when I was first fitting the hardware.

Jim,

What's the status of it getting painted? Is the weather holding up out there?

[Jim Donovan]

Jim,

What's the status of it getting painted? Is the weather holding up out there?

Weather's just okay - occasional heavy rains are supposed to taper out this weekend.
Getting busy with the big boat project so I'll have to wait until this weekend to finish tape and masking job.
So looking at first of next week for topsides and cockpit sides.

[Great Red Shark]

Weather can't get any clearer ! Visited the Mapunapuna shop this AM, saw the all-white boat on the trailer lookin' kinda dusty - what is the removable 'box' lid mid-cockpit ?

[Jim Donovan]

Weather can't get any clearer ! Visited the Mapunapuna shop this AM, saw the all-white boat on the trailer lookin' kinda dusty - what is the removable 'box' lid mid-cockpit ?

I know - can't trust the weather forcasting here.

The little box thing water-proofs the jib sheets that exit out the sides of the box (cleats mount inside the box).
It also is designed for 4 x Beckson drink holders - that'll keep the liquid refreshments handy.

Boat has a "protective layer of dust" generated by a lot of hand sanding and Lynne's rudder project going on next door.
No need to wipe it off until it's time to paint.

[Heriberto]

Are you pulling off that hardware to paint? Were they mounted to mock up?

[Jim Donovan]

Are you pulling off that hardware to paint? Were they mounted to mock up?

Hardware was all pre-installed prior to paint, and then removed.
I have a few inserts to install for the higher loaded fasteners, although most of the hardware is tapped into carbon or galss plates buried in the deck laminale.

[Heriberto]

Are you pulling off that hardware to paint? Were they mounted to mock up?

Hardware was all pre-installed prior to paint, and then removed.
I have a few inserts to install for the higher loaded fasteners, although most of the hardware is tapped into carbon or galss plates buried in the deck laminale.

What kind of load can inserts take? I'm using threaded stainless backing plates for much of the hardware on GG. This is a general question, not only to my boat....

[Great Red Shark]

Jim, what's the advantage to going up the rig with the jib-sheet as opposed to going forward like on a Soling or on my Impulse ? I see more and more boats - big ones, too - using the "up" method now, so I figure it has a reason.

[Jim Donovan]

Jim, what's the advantage to going up the rig with the jib-sheet as opposed to going forward like on a Soling or on my Impulse ? I see more and more boats - big ones, too - using the "up" method now, so I figure it has a reason.

Gets the load aligned vertically, so you don't need to cant the track.

[Jim Donovan]

Shiny paint finished - except we'll proabbly reshoot the cockpit (a little dust and some spots that need a tiny bit of fairing.
Topsides came out quite nice, especially for how little fairing material went on those panels, and it's only one coat of paint.

Attached Files

•  Masking Tape Still On.jpg   33.03K   247 downloads
•  Refelection.jpg   40.89K   310 downloads
•  Bow.jpg   76.84K   349 downloads
•  Transom.jpg   39.11K   336 downloads
•  Starboard Side.jpg   35.5K   256 downloads

[Art Vandelay]

Wow, looks great Jim!

[miahmouse]

looks good man...

[sclero]

Jim, what's the advantage to going up the rig with the jib-sheet as opposed to going forward like on a Soling or on my Impulse ? I see more and more boats - big ones, too - using the "up" method now, so I figure it has a reason.

Gets the load aligned vertically, so you don't need to cant the track.

Up the rig with the jib sheets? Are you referring to the ways most big boats adjust jib clew location or what?

[kenno]

Very nice Jim I see Robert is getting some hiking practice ;-)

[Great Red Shark]

Jim, what's the advantage to going up the rig with the jib-sheet as opposed to going forward like on a Soling or on my Impulse ? I see more and more boats - big ones, too - using the "up" method now, so I figure it has a reason.

Gets the load aligned vertically, so you don't need to cant the track.

Up the rig with the jib sheets? Are you referring to the ways most big boats adjust jib clew location or what?

No, it's in reference to the self-tacking jib sheets - without any type of jib-boom, Starting at the clew,the sheet goes to the lead on the track and then either go forward (like on a Soling) or UP (like on the Wallys).

[Jim Donovan]

I might be wrong but i think if the track was oriented more normal to the axis of travel it might be a good thing. It seems like there would be a lot of torque on the the harken track and i have had issues sometimes with those when they are loaded up normal...

I'm using a jib sheet arrangement popular on big boats, that gets the load almost vertical to the track.
The jib sheet enters mast 18 feet above deck, and gets double ended in mast, exits the mast below and is lead aft to cleats in cockpit.
The jib sheet will be 3mm dyneema outside the rig to minimize friction and windage.

This gets the jib sheet easily in reach of both the crew and helmsman.
I can have either 2 or 4:1 on the sheet (4:1 shown on image).

Thanks for chimming in Dan.
I went back in time and found the post that shows the system on page 5 - Christmas Day 2009.

[Great Red Shark]

I'm just dissappointed you didn't paint it some wild, Robert-like color. I mean, ANOTHER white boat ? WHat are ya, afraid of being called OCS too often or something ?Just kidding - it looks good. I'm still up for helping laminate the keel strut & rudder.

[Jim Donovan]

I'm just dissappointed you didn't paint it some wild, Robert-like color. I mean, ANOTHER white boat ? WHat are ya, afraid of being called OCS too often or something ?Just kidding - it looks good. I'm still up for helping laminate the keel strut & rudder.

I've always liked all-white boats - you can see the shape of the boat better, and the wild paint jobs are trying to hide something.
What I also have is an extremely easy re-paint arrangement, so it will be no hassle to prep and paint the boat a year or two down the road.

[Steam Flyer]

I'm just dissappointed you didn't paint it some wild, Robert-like color. I mean, ANOTHER white boat ? WHat are ya, afraid of being called OCS too often or something ?Just kidding - it looks good. I'm still up for helping laminate the keel strut & rudder.

The boat looks GREAt

But it's true that non-white boats are a target. I had a purple boat, we were called over much more often than all the multitude of "just another white boat"s, and my wife is paranoid about being 'over early' to this day

FB- Doug

[The Advocate]

Jim, been a while since I have checked in, boat looks great.

[Great Red Shark]

Stopped by the paint-shop today - the hull looks really nice, Jim. I was surprised how high up the top-side paint stops - I imagine it will float a good deal higer in the water than that, right ?

Let me know if you could use a hand,

DW

[Jim Donovan]

Stopped by the paint-shop today - the hull looks really nice, Jim. I was surprised how high up the top-side paint stops - I imagine it will float a good deal higer in the water than that, right ?

Let me know if you could use a hand,

DW

I stoped the topside paint at the chine, which is about 9" above the flotation WL.
Just an easy place to stop the shinny paint.

The bottom will get wet sanded to about 1000 grit, so it'll get a semi-gloss look when dry, and go as glossy as the topsides when wet.

Going in sometime Saturday to mask for the non-skid paint. Hopefully next week it'll be ready to roll out.

[knuckles]

Are you pulling off that hardware to paint? Were they mounted to mock up?

Hardware was all pre-installed prior to paint, and then removed.
I have a few inserts to install for the higher loaded fasteners, although most of the hardware is tapped into carbon or galss plates buried in the deck laminale.

Are you using helicoils threaded into G10 or carbon blocks? How big are the fasteners?

[Great Red Shark]

From what I could see, drilled & tapped G10. I don't think he added heli-coils. Fasteners looked about # 12-size.

It's meticulous as all hell, but 0 leaks and 0 snaggage below decks IS pretty cool.

[Teaky]

Ya'll are not concerned about that transom on a busy start line then eh?

[Jim Donovan]

Are you pulling off that hardware to paint? Were they mounted to mock up?

Hardware was all pre-installed prior to paint, and then removed.
I have a few inserts to install for the higher loaded fasteners, although most of the hardware is tapped into carbon or galss plates buried in the deck laminale.

Are you using helicoils threaded into G10 or carbon blocks? How big are the fasteners?

I have some helicoils for high load areas and for fittings that need to be removed more often.
Generally tap the buried glass or carbon plate with a bit of epoxy on the fastener and your good to go.

[Jim Donovan]

Ya'll are not concerned about that transom on a busy start line then eh?

Nope - transom is a long ways in.

Edge of the hull may get a few nicks, so I have a slug of 404 filler all along that exposed edge.
It's been tested (by accident) and proven to be quite rugged, this kind of damage ends up being purely cosmetic and generally easy to fix.

And usually the guys who rams your stern is clearly at fault, so if it's a bad hit he'll probably have to pay for the fix.

[Teaky]

Good point, Jim.

[Jim Donovan]

And usually the guy who rams your stern is clearly at fault, so if it's a bad hit he'll probably have to pay for the fix.

I have been involved in a couple transom incidents; my favorite:

We got to the top mark and hoisted the kite on the Melges 24 just when the gust hit. Boat shot off and speared the Etchells right in front of us. They just turned around with that "what just happened?" look. That was worth the price of admission. And no, I wasn't driving.

I think the strategy to avoid transom hits is to be faster than the other boats

[Jim Donovan]

Non-skid finished Saturday evening - boat's home now.
Time to bolt down some gear now so it looks more like a sailboat.

Attached Files

•  Nonskid done.JPG   152.33K   317 downloads

[WCB]

Non-skid finished Saturday evening - boat's home now.
Time to bolt down some gear now so it looks more like a sailboat.

Looks great, Jim! Can't wait to see it come together with the deck gear.

[Heriberto]

Heh heh. Resisting the urge to say "Trapezees's!" "Lifting centerboards!" "Outriggers!"


Sorry about that. It's the abortive I14 sailor in me....!



Looking beautiful!

[Soley]

Non-skid finished Saturday evening - boat's home now.
Time to bolt down some gear now so it looks more like a sailboat.

Instead of a rocket....

[DIMITRIS]

Non-skid finished Saturday evening - boat's home now.
Time to bolt down some gear now so it looks more like a sailboat.

Jim are there any updates on the state of the little boat......Is it finished????

[Ironweed]

I went back to the first page and re-read the introduction you made about this boat. I was wondering if you are still thinking in terms of a kit boat?

I went back to the first page and re-read the introduction you made about this boat. I was wondering if you are still thinking in terms of a kit boat?

[Jim Donovan]

Non-skid finished Saturday evening - boat's home now.
Time to bolt down some gear now so it looks more like a sailboat.

Jim are there any updates on the state of the little boat......Is it finished????

Working on everything BUT the little boat these days . . . so it sits waiting.

[Jim Donovan]

[quote name='Donovan' timestamp='1300833697' post='3206673']
I went back to the first page and re-read the introduction you made about this boat. I was wondering if you are still thinking in terms of a kit boat?

(/quote]

Sure - but want to find someone interested in building a hull bottom plug that we can splash a mold from.

The bad economy is just slowing down the project - boat builders in the U.S. have been hit pretty hard, so everyone is concentrating on income generating jobs, rather than invetsing in tooling. Hopefully things will change soon.

[The Advocate]

Any updates Jim?

[Jim Donovan]

Any updates Jim?

Getting loaded into a container tomorrow and headed for the PNW (Anacortes)

[pluto]

What will it be doing there?

[Jim Donovan]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.
HUGE thanks to my friends who showed up and helped with the loading.

The container sides bowed slightly inward, so instead of an inch clearance each side, we had about 1/4".
Need to make a slight adjustment to the plans to accomodate this.

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•  Aloha 2.jpg   106.84K   169 downloads
•  Aloha 3.jpg   121.03K   140 downloads

[Timbo]

Hi Jim, how did she end up on hull weight??

[Jim Donovan]

Hi Jim, how did she end up on hull weight??

Haven't weighed it yet.
With the deck and all internal framing installed and few coats of primer, Brett and I could easily lift it (and we're both old guys with bad backs).
So I guess it was in the 300 to 325 range.
But as you add things like footbraces, hatch, & portligts it's amazing how qiuickly the weight increases.
So I'm guessing somewhere around 380lbs w/o deck gear installed.
Target with deck hardware (no rig, rudder or keel) is 410 lbs.

[Timbo]

Hi Jim, how did she end up on hull weight??

Haven't weighed it yet.
With the deck and all internal framing installed and few coats of primer, Brett and I could easily lift it (and we're both old guys with bad backs).
So I guess it was in the 300 to 325 range.
But as you add things like footbraces, hatch, & portligts it's amazing how qiuickly the weight increases.
So I'm guessing somewhere around 380lbs w/o deck gear installed.
Target with deck hardware (no rig, rudder or keel) is 410 lbs.

Sounds like a good build and she's a looker... What rig did you settle on? M24?

[Jim Donovan]

Hi Jim, how did she end up on hull weight??

Haven't weighed it yet.
With the deck and all internal framing installed and few coats of primer, Brett and I could easily lift it (and we're both old guys with bad backs).
So I guess it was in the 300 to 325 range.
But as you add things like footbraces, hatch, & portligts it's amazing how qiuickly the weight increases.
So I'm guessing somewhere around 380lbs w/o deck gear installed.
Target with deck hardware (no rig, rudder or keel) is 410 lbs.

Sounds like a good build and she's a looker... What rig did you settle on? M24?

Repaired M24 rig, so about 6" shorter with a bit added to the bottom of the tube for a keel stepped arrangement

[doghouse]

So when is it gonna be ready for me to come out and sail?

[Great Red Shark]

Bummed I'll never get to sail it on Kaneohe Bay, best wishes JD.

[SA Lurker]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

[Jim Donovan]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

[SA Lurker]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Bid The Islands aloha?

[Steam Flyer]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Did you bring it to the PacNW in hopes of lining up against the Rocket 22?

Can't wait to see it sailing!

FB- Doug

[Jim Donovan]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Did you bring it to the PacNW in hopes of lining up against the Rocket 22?


Can't wait to see it sailing!

FB- Doug

It followed me here as we work on this slightly larger project . . .

Attached Files

•  1July11 T4 Deck Mold.jpg   144.23K   374 downloads

[Steam Flyer]

... ... ...

It followed me here as we work on this slightly larger project . . .

WOW !!! !!!

Now that looks officially awesome. Expensive, too

FB- Doug

[ICBT]

....

It followed me here as we work on this slightly larger project . . .

Is that the skinny Perry boat?

[Jim Donovan]

....

It followed me here as we work on this slightly larger project . . .

Is that the skinny Perry boat?

No

[quasi-expert]

....

It followed me here as we work on this slightly larger project . . .

Is that the skinny Perry boat?

No

probably the skinny Donovan boat?

[jim lee]

ROFL!!

-jim lee

[Art Vandelay]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Jim,

Any updates?

[Jim Donovan]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Jim,

Any updates?

Been a little busy . . .

Attached Files

•  1st Stack Hull Frames.jpg   292.31K   136 downloads

[Art Vandelay]

Boat went in the container last week headed for Washington State.

WA? What are your plans for this boat, JD?

Taking it out of the container today - hopefully not to much repair work to do (it was a very snug fit).
And then I have to finish the keel/rudder/rig and go sailing.

Jim,

Any updates?

Been a little busy . . .

Looks like you have! Is this in Washington or Hawaii?

Can you give a few details on this build?

[Savage 17]

Washington

[Jagtek Performance Products]

Is this thing sailing yet?

[Jim Donovan]

Is this thing sailing yet?

Got a few other things going on right now . . .

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[Heriberto]

Is this thing sailing yet?

Got a few other things going on right now . . .

Please tell me those are Oompa Loompas. Insane.

[O30_OldSchool]

Please tell me those are Oompa Loompas. Insane.

[jim lee]

Is this thing sailing yet?

Got a few other things going on right now . . .

Please tell me those are Oompa Loompas. Insane.

ROFL!!

We just had those Oompa Loompas over here at Left Coast for a BBQ today. Jim, Where were you? And no, they're life sized. Its a carbon fiver monster that they are building!

-jim lee

[Heriberto]

Is this thing sailing yet?

Got a few other things going on right now . . .

Please tell me those are Oompa Loompas. Insane.

ROFL!!

We just had those Oompa Loompas over here at Left Coast for a BBQ today. Jim, Where were you? And no, they're life sized. Its a carbon fiver monster that they are building!

-jim lee

My guess he was in the monster, wondering where the oompa loompas were!

[Conny71]

Slightly more interior volume than the 20'.

[Art Vandelay]

Hey Jim,

Congrats on the Windseeker GP26 launch, boat looks great. So how about an update on the little sister?

[Jim Donovan]

Hey Jim,

Congrats on the Windseeker GP26 launch, boat looks great. So how about an update on the little sister?

Poised in my driveway for some work finally!

[Great Red Shark]

Thank you JD - I was wondering how/if it'd finished up. Hope you guys can enjoy it this year.

[mpistal1]

Recently I exchange some e-mails with Jim and he is willing to make a simpler lower budget 6m design, similar with his 6m carbon design. Any interest for such design?

[Norm]

Sure , what type of build

[Icebear]

Interested.

[Jim Donovan]

In discussions with builder very interested in producing the 6m in a slightly lower tech version than my own carbon boat.
Idea is to keep the price lower and probably be able to deliver partially completed hulls/decks.

Stay-tuned

[Speng]

nah 6m boats is all passe mate. Wot we wants is a 8m rocket with a small shaggin' cabin to do some offshore stuff like dem Antrim 27 dealies.

[Jim Donovan]

GP 26 is 7.9m

[dolphinmaster]

GP 26 is 7.9m

Would you say there is a shaggin cabin?

[Jim Donovan]

Both the 6m and GP26 have bow tanks that contribute to the structural integrity of the bow sections, act as air chambers and make a large v-berth.
The 6m size was developed around the smallest hull that would accomodate a berth in the bow for over-night stays onboard.

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•  Keel Frame Nearly Finished.jpg   86.74K   93 downloads
•  Kevin's White Interior.JPG   77.5K   103 downloads

[Mojounwin]

Hi Jim, can you give us a rough idea how many hours you've spent building yours?
The builder you are talking of, are they based in the USA?
I've built an 8m, but seriously considering downgrading to something similar to your 6m

Cheers
Mojo

[Heriberto]

Just got done re-reading this from the beginning, which was well worth the time.

It's funny that when you spend a lot of time looking at something and thinking how it could be better, you often wind up at back at the starting point. Especially when Jim made the starting point.

Jim, I don't think there is a reason to save a thousand or two on glass over carbon, or even on an aluminum rig, especially given what U20guy said way back about the C-Tech rig coming out cheaper than the stock aluminum. Even for a series built club racer. That's only a couple of percent on the overall cost, the costs that would usually financed in a loan so spread out. Making it a little more, how to put it, "care tolerant" would definitely be a plus for that, increasing it's useful life in a cruel world, but there are better ways to save money on a boat. It almost always comes down to how expensive it is to race. So costs would be more about things like making class rules that limit sails and sail materials (for example).

One question I couldn't find the answer to in this thread: what is your current proposed keel arrangement? Obviously in the GP26 thread there was a lot of concern about lifting keels, and the smaller the boat, the more likely shallow water is an issue. Could you share what your thought is on a keel arrangement on this boat?

[Jim Donovan]

Just got done re-reading this from the beginning, which was well worth the time.

One question I couldn't find the answer to in this thread: what is your current proposed keel arrangement? Obviously in the GP26 thread there was a lot of concern about lifting keels, and the smaller the boat, the more likely shallow water is an issue. Could you share what your thought is on a keel arrangement on this boat?

Keel lifts straight out the hatch opening; either with a YC crane or removable lifting aparatus w/purchase lead to cockpit winches.

[Heriberto]

Keel lifts straight out the hatch opening; either with a YC crane or removable lifting aparatus w/purchase lead to cockpit winches.

Nice! Why swim ashore like a stowaway? Beach it like the gentry.

[Jim Donovan]

We finally saw the sun the ther day and I scrubbed the moss off the 20 footer and dragged it over to the shed where it is now keeping our monster project company . . .

I hope to get the deck hardware on and finish the rig and foils by "summer"; we have about 5 more months of winter here

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•  6m on the road again.jpg   36.14K   153 downloads
•  6m in shed.jpg   49.49K   157 downloads

[Ryley]

so is the "monster" gonna have a garage for the 6m?

[TBone]

JD- Based on your GP26 development would you change anything about the 20ftr?

[Jim Donovan]

so is the "monster" gonna have a garage for the 6m?

Garage is for the 16 foot RIB

[Jim Donovan]

JD- Based on your GP26 development would you change anything about the 20ftr?

The 20 is the little cousin of the GP 26; I designed it shortly after the 26. Nothing I would change execpt the swim step doesn't look like it'll get much use in the PNW; water temp hoovers around 48 degrees outside our door . . .

[Varan]

JD- Based on your GP26 development would you change anything about the 20ftr?

The 20 is the little cousin of the GP 26; I designed it shortly after the 26. Nothing I would change execpt the swim step doesn't look like it'll get much use in the PNW; water temp hoovers around 48 degrees outside our door . . .

Any chance you will have her ready to sail by July? Sure would love to see y'all at WIRW.

[Jim Donovan]

JD- Based on your GP26 development would you change anything about the 20ftr?

The 20 is the little cousin of the GP 26; I designed it shortly after the 26. Nothing I would change execpt the swim step doesn't look like it'll get much use in the PNW; water temp hoovers around 48 degrees outside our door . . .

Any chance you will have her ready to sail by July? Sure would love to see y'all at WIRW.

Summer" didn't quite happen til mid July last year - I was thinking Sept as a more realistic timeframe.

[jkdubs808]

Glad to see its almost done. Moved to the PNW I see......I miss that place.

Still can't wait to see the final product on the water and sailing. Square top main I take it?