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20+ Footer - Building in Hawaii


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#1 Jim Donovan

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:35 PM

Here are a few photos of my new 20+ footer (it's a few inches longer than 20 feet). Essentially a scaled version of my GP26 design, and without the GP class restructions I'm using carbon for the inner skins on the hull and deck. Built all the flat panel stuff first; frames, topsides panels, deck panels. Then built the cockpit and deck and hauled it up into the shop rafters. Been setting up the hull plug last week and nearly ready to fit the foam core for the outer hull laminate.

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#2 Savage 17

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:54 PM

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?

#3 Jim Donovan

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:13 PM

The "hot" small keel boat class in Hawaii is the Cal 20, and I just can't sail one of those ever again
The concept of this 20 foot “cruiser/racer” is that it's a boat that 2 people can easily sail with the smaller spinnaker.

The rig is a broken Melges 24 spar that I need to fix. It'll be keel stepped, so I'll loose a couple feet of hoist.
I have a M24 spinnaker for the BIG kite - it'll also loose a couple feet of hoist and girth.
The rig set-up is a lot like the Melges 20 - fat-head main and no backstay, although I'm going with an adjustable forestay.
Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

All-up weight is targeted at 570kg (using a M24 reshaped bulb), or 230 kg lighter than the Melges 24.


There are actually a few concensions to "cruising", that make the boat much more useful to take out for an afternoon "cruise";
The tail-feathers at the stern act as a swim platform, with a foot pump and shower thing at the transom -(portable bladder water tank as part of the "cruising" set-up.)
There's a structural bow tank with a platform that is just big enough for a berth.
The parrot gets a small dodger to hang out under.

Preliminary sail and deck plan attached

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#4 Jim Donovan

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:19 PM

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?


The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.
But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.

#5 Savage 17

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:55 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.

#6 stealth

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 01:33 AM

Looks interesting Jim.
What is the measurement data?
Do keep us posted on the progress.

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?


The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.
But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.



#7 Snapper

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:12 PM

Jim,

What's the length of the fixed sprit and how are you planning to make it removable for docking/trailering?

Chris

#8 Jim Donovan

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:12 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.



I'll have quite a nice hull plug that I'd be able to build a few hull bottom parts from, so a "kit" could be supplied with this part and as many of the other pre-made panels as someone required. The original concept of this design was to be a kit boat similar to the i550, but these panel built boats have compromised hull forms that have no appeal to me, and I couldn't rationalize spending the time and money for this.

I use the term "cruiser" very loosely; the boat is very powered up.
The rig is a couple feet taller than the Melges 20, with a larger big spinnaker (I will have a small spinnaker too).
The keel is about a foot deeper with a heavier bulb than the M20, but the all up displacement is only 50 kgs more, which the slightly longer hull easily accommodates.
I’ve drawn a single rudder, but have been thinking it would be better with twin rudders

I’ve concentrated more on actually building the boat than producing pretty drawings and renderings.
I have a lot more detailed working drawings that I will work to clean up and post.
But today I’m working towards getting some foam on the hull plug.

#9 Jim Donovan

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:17 PM

Looks interesting Jim.
What is the measurement data?
Do keep us posted on the progress.

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?


The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.
But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.


The sprit is about 3 1/2 feet long.
My latest concept has the aft end of the sprit fitting into a socket at the stem, with a small purchase in the sprit that will allow the bobstay to be tensioned after fitting the sprit.
To remove the sprit just uncleat this purchase to slacken the stay, then just pull the spit out and lay it on the foredeck.

#10 Jim Donovan

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 03:46 PM

Half the hull bottom core on the plug.

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#11 Savage 17

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 05:27 PM

Jim,

Boat is moving along quickly!! Please keep us posted. Hopefully Kevin can start posting more regularly.

#12 Kestrahl

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 10:44 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.



I'll have quite a nice hull plug that I'd be able to build a few hull bottom parts from, so a "kit" could be supplied with this part and as many of the other pre-made panels as someone required. The original concept of this design was to be a kit boat similar to the i550, but these panel built boats have compromised hull forms that have no appeal to me, and I couldn't rationalize spending the time and money for this.

I use the term "cruiser" very loosely; the boat is very powered up.
The rig is a couple feet taller than the Melges 20, with a larger big spinnaker (I will have a small spinnaker too).
The keel is about a foot deeper with a heavier bulb than the M20, but the all up displacement is only 50 kgs more, which the slightly longer hull easily accommodates.
I’ve drawn a single rudder, but have been thinking it would be better with twin rudders

I’ve concentrated more on actually building the boat than producing pretty drawings and renderings.
I have a lot more detailed working drawings that I will work to clean up and post.
But today I’m working towards getting some foam on the hull plug.


Good work on actually building the boat instead of pretty renderings!

I'd recommend making the prod as long as possible for much easier gybeing and sailing deep downwind.

#13 Thad

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 12:22 AM

Sweet design.
I agree with you position concerning the i550 - great concept, just not attractive enough with the flat sides and such to make me want to take the leap.
Now this design would certainly fit the bill.
Please keep the posts coming concerning the boat and the build.

#14 Munter

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 12:43 AM

Is it just me or have you decided against freeboard?

#15 The Advocate

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 01:51 AM

Is it just me or have you decided against freeboard?

I think that is just the hulll to the chine like the 26, and then there are topsides to go on.

#16 Jim Donovan

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:06 AM

Is it just me or have you decided against freeboard?

I think that is just the hulll to the chine like the 26, and then there are topsides to go on.



Exactly Advocate.

Here's a photo of a topside panel.

Where Kevin is building his GP26 in a female plug with topsides and botom laminated in a single hit, due to space limitations I've elected to go for a smaller hull bottom plug and attach the topside panels later.

Before I built the real boat I built a quick 1/5th scale model to confirm that my surface program was accurately developing the topside panel shape (see attachment).
The shape was perfect so I felt confident to go full size.

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#17 Jim Donovan

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 05:43 PM

Hull bottom foam all on - 6 pieces total

Topside panels going on today - will glass outer hull bottom laminate directly to topside panel edge which is recessd a couple millimeteres to accept extra layers.

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#18 Jim Donovan

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 05:47 PM

Hull bottom foam all on - 6 pieces total

Topside panels going on today - will glass outer hull bottom laminate directly to topside panel edge which is recessd a couple millimeteres to accept extra layers.



Most of the topside panel surface has already been faired and primed (white paint on panel).

#19 Savage 17

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 06:04 PM

Jim - Keep up the great work. You are going to have the hull completed in a month which is amazing!!!

#20 jkdubs808

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:49 PM

Looks good, Jim. Looks real good. Can't wait to see it on the water.

#21 Prouda my Pickle Dish

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 01:06 AM

Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

Why not a deck tunnel thingy like the Ultimate 20, where you pull the sprit out from the deck? Keeps the interior dry that way. And you could go longer than 3.5 feet! Bigger kite=more fun.

Looks sweet.

#22 Jim Donovan

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:27 AM

Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

Why not a deck tunnel thingy like the Ultimate 20, where you pull the sprit out from the deck? Keeps the interior dry that way. And you could go longer than 3.5 feet! Bigger kite=more fun.

Looks sweet.



My cocnept for the boat is to keep the deck absolutely clean - a kind of mini Wally (but no teak!).

If you have a look at the sailplan you will see the rig is quite far aft in the hull - this is achieved by careful control of the structural weights, allowimg the keel and rig to slide aft. So the distance from the mast to the sprit tip is quite long - about the same as the Melges 20. The rig is taller than the M20, but I prefer high aspect spinnakers for the higher wind speeds here in Hawaii - you don't have to bleed off as much sheet to depower.

Of course it's always possible to make the sprit longer. The length will be decided when I build it - probably will make it longer than planned with the idea that I can cut it off later ;)

Topsides panels glued in place today (that was easy) all rebates for laminate laps and keel reinforcement layers routered into core - outer keel reinforcement layers lamianted last thing tonight.

1/2 the outer skin goes on tomorrow.

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#23 Jim Donovan

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:07 PM

Laminated first half of hull bottom last night

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#24 Jim Donovan

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:20 PM

Finished Laminating 2nd half of hull bottom yesterday, so hull exterior laminate complete.
Aready have microballoons on hull bottom and will finish first pass with a longboard this morning - all looks really good and should have less than 1mm average filler thickness.
Topsdie panels are already fairned and primed - did this on my long table before I disassembled it to stand up the hull bottom plug.


Next step is to build the hull cradle and roll the boat over.
I hadn't planned on attaching the topside panels before doing the bottom inner laminate, but it just seemed to make sense and the topside panels stablize the edge of the hull bottom.
Reaching over the topside panel to do the inner laminate my be a challenge - thinking of either tipping the hull and doing half at a time, or building a movable patform that'll let us get right over the hull for laminating.

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#25 thumper

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 11:46 PM

Jim forgot to add that is will be a self-tacking jib. He's been sailing with me on my Ross780 and is sold that it's the way to go on a light boat, especially when 2 person cruising in Kaneohe Bay. You guys are right that the build is going fast. A few of us have jumped in on the larger Layup days (nights) but Jim has been pretty much at it alone.

#26 Jim Donovan

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:57 PM

Jim forgot to add that is will be a self-tacking jib. He's been sailing with me on my Ross780 and is sold that it's the way to go on a light boat, especially when 2 person cruising in Kaneohe Bay. You guys are right that the build is going fast. A few of us have jumped in on the larger Layup days (nights) but Jim has been pretty much at it alone.



I have a huge amount of gratitude for my dedicated volunteers; Brett, Mark and Scott who have shown up for every large laminate. It isn't possible to do these by yourself.

#27 Trevor B

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 07:11 PM

Jim,
Are you not bagging the laminate on? Gravity is your friend!

#28 Jim Donovan

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 08:27 PM

Jim,
Are you not bagging the laminate on? Gravity is your friend!


Hi Trevor,

The hull plug is only station molds w/ ribbands, so not sealed to allow vacuum.
The outer skin is only a couple layers of uni glass so don't really need the vacuum for ply consolidation.
The outer skin is designed for thickness to avoid dents from docks and trailers, so the less than "optimal" resin content makes the outer skin a bit thicker and better able to deal with this type of abuse.

Sound like a reasonable justification for going with a cheaper mold?

When possible I have vacuumed the laminate; deck panels, topsides, internal bhds and frames.

#29 Bulbhunter

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 08:34 PM

Cool stuff!

By the way the Synergy 1000's also have the pole channel in the fordeck like the U20. It's pretty clean and makes all the difference in interior space and water tight seals ie keeps the interior dry. Having owned the U20 and raced on the Synergy quite a bit - the only asymetric pole set up I'll go with is the deck mount or on a very large boat having a fully sealed pole box below deck.

Dealing with lousy pole / hull seals in the bow sucks! Though the rubber toilet plunger on the T650 works like a charm just doesn't look cool.

#30 Jim Donovan

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 02:35 PM

After way too short a "vacation" hiking around Kauai with the parrot, we were back at it yesterday afternoon getting the boat rolled.

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#31 Jim Donovan

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 02:37 PM

These are my favorite photos as gravity takes control

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#32 Jim Donovan

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 02:41 PM

Finishing the job - took about 10 minutes (including breaks) to move the boat out and roll it.
There's about 110 lbs of boat with 200 lbs of hull plug and cradle attached.

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#33 Jim Donovan

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 02:49 PM

Took a few photos of our crew (including Robert the parrot), and shoved the boat back in the shop.
Interior hull bottom carbon laminate is the next step.

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#34 Savage 17

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 04:15 PM

Looks good Jim!!! Keep up good work!!

#35 Steam Flyer

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 11:33 PM

Took a few photos of our crew (including Robert the parrot), and shoved the boat back in the shop.
Interior hull bottom carbon laminate is the next step.


looks GREAT!

That is going to be a super-cool boat Jim... but what's with the pram bow?? :huh:

FB- Doug

#36 Jim Donovan

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Posted 01 October 2009 - 04:25 PM

Took a few photos of our crew (including Robert the parrot), and shoved the boat back in the shop.
Interior hull bottom carbon laminate is the next step.


looks GREAT!

That is going to be a super-cool boat Jim... but what's with the pram bow?? :huh:

FB- Doug



The bow will be built flat at 5" back from the stem.
A shaped block of foam will be attached and gassed to the bow.
This gives the boat quite a strong stem and it's just an easier way to build a one-off on a simple male plug.
In the photos the over-length topsides panels are just hanging out past the cut-off - I need to cut these back so it'll look better.
TodayI start w/ the inside laminate.

#37 Hannes

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 08:15 AM

Hi Jim, looks great! How did you keep the foam in place on the mold prior to laminating?

#38 Great Red Shark

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 09:28 PM

Looks good Jim ! Are you going to finish off the model hull for Robert ?

#39 bla

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 05:45 AM

Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

Julian

#40 Jim Donovan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 06:01 PM

Hi Jim, looks great! How did you keep the foam in place on the mold prior to laminating?


Tried a method a friend used to build his 18 ft skiff: stitching with thread to the ribbands. Estimated time of completion was June 2020.

Called another freind/expert builder that said a few dabs of liquid nails has worked for him. That held the foam for about 12 hrs and then I heard the "pop. pop, pop, pop" fo the glue letting loose.

Finally tried dabs of Gorilla glue - this is the ticket - fast and hodls like crazy. As I'm removing the ribbands now for the hull I'm finding it want's to rip out the foam - it holds that well. When removing the ribband if you ben it so it shears the glue bond you are less likely to rip out the foam. We're talking drop sized chunks which are quite easy to fill when you hot coat the foam prior to laminating.

Up in the bow the foam was quite bent and ready to pop off the mold, so I used some heaters tand a heat gun to thermo-form the core.

#41 Jim Donovan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 06:12 PM

Looks good Jim ! Are you going to finish off the model hull for Robert ?


The model will most likely hang from the ceiling in our living room, although Robert was invloved in preliminary "tank testing".
The real boat has a sligtly different hull shape - value of building the model is to see where you'd do it diffferently the next time.
So this boat is actually a Mk2.

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#42 Jim Donovan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 06:20 PM

Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

Julian

Aloha Julian - b enn a while.
Mexico? What Cup boats found their way down there? Are they being used for charter work?

Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed - my right arm is about ready to fall off due to exceesive paower tool and longboarding. Getting past the initial exterior hull fairing and flipping the hull was a big relief, and doing the inner hull laminte has been a lot more "fun" - I much prefer laminating carbon - it is so beautiful and stiff. Here's a few photos - through the bow tank top/V-berth in for laughs:


If you pass through Hawaii definitely give me a ring - skype or email is best.
Realistically the little yacht won't get wet til Spring 2010.

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#43 Jim Donovan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 06:25 PM

Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

Julian

Aloha Julian - b enn a while.
Mexico? What Cup boats found their way down there? Are they being used for charter work?

Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed - my right arm is about ready to fall off due to exceesive paower tool and longboarding. Getting past the initial exterior hull fairing and flipping the hull was a big relief, and doing the inner hull laminte has been a lot more "fun" - I much prefer laminating carbon - it is so beautiful and stiff. Here's a few photos - through the bow tank top/V-berth in for laughs:


If you pass through Hawaii definitely give me a ring - skype or email is best.
Realistically the little yacht won't get wet til Spring 2010.


I'm really going to need to edit my posts more carefully 'b enn"? "paower"? "through"?

I'm a bit sleep deprived after a late night in the shop - back at it again this morning to do the second stage inside laminate - photos to follow soon.

#44 Jim Donovan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 06:29 PM

Robert after a day "working" in the shop

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#45 Hannes

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:18 AM

Great! Thank you!

Hi Jim, looks great! How did you keep the foam in place on the mold prior to laminating?


Tried a method a friend used to build his 18 ft skiff: stitching with thread to the ribbands. Estimated time of completion was June 2020.

Called another freind/expert builder that said a few dabs of liquid nails has worked for him. That held the foam for about 12 hrs and then I heard the "pop. pop, pop, pop" fo the glue letting loose.

Finally tried dabs of Gorilla glue - this is the ticket - fast and hodls like crazy. As I'm removing the ribbands now for the hull I'm finding it want's to rip out the foam - it holds that well. When removing the ribband if you ben it so it shears the glue bond you are less likely to rip out the foam. We're talking drop sized chunks which are quite easy to fill when you hot coat the foam prior to laminating.

Up in the bow the foam was quite bent and ready to pop off the mold, so I used some heaters tand a heat gun to thermo-form the core.



#46 Jim Donovan

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 05:43 PM

About half the length of the inner skin complete - getting narrower as I work forward so about 40% of the area remaining - should get this done in the next couple days.
Phone camera really distorts the shape - not nearly as wdie and flat as it looks in this photo.

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#47 Jim Donovan

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 03:35 AM

Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed . . .


So to set the record straight, I haven't built this boat entirely by myslef.
I have had a ton of help from Brett and Mark and a bunch of other friends who have shown up at critical stages of the build that require more than one person.
The larger laminates are not going to go well with only one person.
You need a few people to move and flip parts.

Moral of the story: be nice to people & make sure you're there to help them work on thier boats.

#48 Jim Donovan

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 04:31 PM

Tradewinds have disapeared and it's been over 90 degrees in the shop the past week - makes it difficult to get as much done as I'd like.
1st trim and check of bulkheads and keel frame.
Adding foam build up at sheer for sheer radius.
Inner hull bottom "base" laminate completed and adding port side reinforcements this morning.

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#49 WCB

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 12:40 AM

Great looking project, I've enjoyed watching your progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed build too.

#50 bruno

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 07:57 AM

Jim:

Looks great, i wish building always looked that easy, the mark of a professional.

#51 Will

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 05:01 PM

Jim, I must say this is fun watching your progress. I like building stuff, but this is amazing. I suggest you send the second photo to Irwin tools to show them a lot of their product in use.

Chris

#52 Jim Donovan

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 08:06 PM

Brett and I just picked up the hull shell (all laminate and reinforcements are completed).
Appears to right on target weight of 130 lbs for hull shell (same weight as a Laser).
Really stiff - pick up one end and the whole thing comes off the cradle witout bending.
I'll post some photos when I get back to my computer.

#53 Jim Donovan

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 08:07 PM

Brett and I just picked up the hull shell (all laminate and reinforcements are completed).
Appears to right on target weight of 130 lbs for hull shell (same weight as a Laser).
Really stiff - pick up one end and the whole thing comes off the cradle witout bending.
I'll post some photos when I get back to my computer.

#54 bla

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 10:02 AM

Hi Jim,

I signed up with Origin and worked with them for half a year until they had to sensibly freeze operations until a normal Cup emerges from the ashes of the current forrest fire. Can't wait, they are an outstanding team to work for.
So I got a skippers ticket and got a job steering these Cup boats through some friends who set them up here in Mexico.
Two sister companies in Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas bought a set of boats each. the One Australia boat (that didn't sink) and Sydney 95 were in PV and the two TNZ boats from 2003 went in Cabo. I originally came to PV then I went to La Paz to service the rigs for the kiwi boats. We then moved the two Aussie boats to Cabo as well which means we can have back up boats or sail 3 boat tours.

www.cabo-adventures.com/tours/americas-cup

The sail over was fun. I was on Aus 29 (Syd 95), close hauled one board all the way, 18kts, 2-4m swell, full size main which can't reef, 350 miles in 32 hours with no breakages. We lost the other boat and support boat during the night (they ripped the main track off and blew some jib hanks) and they came in 12 hours later. Check it out.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9GvWY0Bsys

www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUGRrg6IZc&feature=channel

It's been pretty cool steering big boats and learning the little intricacies that make them faster. We run full on match races on the tour and we don't hold back (no race fixing here). Getting pretty good at match racing now, with time on distance down pat and love the pre starts. NZL 81 still has the Hula which is glassed over so we should have the longest IACC Cup boat ever built here. 18 kts or so of wind today so i was trucking upwind at 11 kts with a non overlapping blade and a reefed main. We've got it over 17kts reaching with just the jib and reefed main. Not bad for the heavy old bus.

Julz

#55 Essex

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 04:49 PM

great vids of that PV to Cabo delivery,
so weird to see an AC boat ripping along offshore like that.
are the keels original ?

#56 Jim Donovan

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:26 PM

Hi Jim,

I signed up with Origin and worked with them for half a year until they had to sensibly freeze operations until a normal Cup emerges from the ashes of the current forrest fire. Can't wait, they are an outstanding team to work for.
So I got a skippers ticket and got a job steering these Cup boats through some friends who set them up here in Mexico.
Two sister companies in Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas bought a set of boats each. the One Australia boat (that didn't sink) and Sydney 95 were in PV and the two TNZ boats from 2003 went in Cabo. I originally came to PV then I went to La Paz to service the rigs for the kiwi boats. We then moved the two Aussie boats to Cabo as well which means we can have back up boats or sail 3 boat tours.

www.cabo-adventures.com/tours/americas-cup

The sail over was fun. I was on Aus 29 (Syd 95), close hauled one board all the way, 18kts, 2-4m swell, full size main which can't reef, 350 miles in 32 hours with no breakages. We lost the other boat and support boat during the night (they ripped the main track off and blew some jib hanks) and they came in 12 hours later. Check it out.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9GvWY0Bsys

www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUGRrg6IZc&feature=channel

It's been pretty cool steering big boats and learning the little intricacies that make them faster. We run full on match races on the tour and we don't hold back (no race fixing here). Getting pretty good at match racing now, with time on distance down pat and love the pre starts. NZL 81 still has the Hula which is glassed over so we should have the longest IACC Cup boat ever built here. 18 kts or so of wind today so i was trucking upwind at 11 kts with a non overlapping blade and a reefed main. We've got it over 17kts reaching with just the jib and reefed main. Not bad for the heavy old bus.

Julz



Nice that your enjoying yourself in Mexico - frightening to see these old boats used for tourists; eventually something will explode. Here's a photo of one of the Aloha Racing boats now being used for charter in San Diego. I came to Hawaii to help design/build these boats abcn in 1998, and got a call after a trucker got it stuck against a telephone pole and couldn't get away from it. He just drove forward and dragged about 60 ft of the topsides against the pole. The aluminum honeycomb just crushed (like a few thousand tiny beer cans) and there was remarkably little damage to the exterior lamiante, and almost no damage to the inner skn; repair was fairly simple. Scratched up Wylands painting including the turtle! Note:Bad idea painting turtles on race boats.

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#57 Jim Donovan

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:36 PM

Maybe all this discussion re: 85 footers that can rarely exceed 15 knots should be shifted over to Cruising Anarchy?

Back on topic: All inner skin reinforcements completed last week and I've been busy with fitting all the frames. etc.
All the various layers of peel ply makes the inside look pretty ugly - like a lizard getting ready to shed. Under the peel ply is beautiflu carbon.
Ripped off the peel ply in the bow tank area and will clear-coat it prior to bonding the lid down forever.

Bow tank is all fitted and I built the forestay fitting yesterday - simple carbon chainplate on the tank centerline web - bonding to the hull today.

Cut the slot for the keel fin Monday - hull is about 3/4" solid glass and carbon right there.

Building the keel box today - keel fin fits in from the top and will bolt down to the keel frame.
Box is a tapered fit, so it'll seat tight every time.

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#58 Jim Donovan

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 01:51 PM

Glued the bow tank lid down last evening - finished off the space under with a coat of clear primer.

Building the keel box now - photos to come later.

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#59 Trevor B

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 02:08 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

#60 Jim Donovan

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 02:58 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....



AwlGrip 545 Primer - typically available in white or gray but they make a "Clear Base".

It's a bit thin and you need a few coats to really fill any gaps in the laminate. It also doesn't have a UV inhibitor, so won't work for parts expsoed to the sun.

I have a friend who prefers to use clear Duratec because it's thicker and fills better. He used this product to finish off these pesdestal guards I designed for the latest "Highland Fling"

I prefer the 545 because it's an epoxy base and less likely to affect any secondary bonds if I need to go back and prep a finished surface

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#61 Jim Donovan

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 03:16 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....



Also need a lot of paint to make a black surface white and look reasonable.

I like to see the hull laminate and bonds in case the boat takes a hit and there's damage.

I will paint (and non-skid) the floor of the boat under the hatch white - a black hull surface gets up to around 160 degrees here in Hawaii, and it's impossible to stand on. Also better for the laminate and core to keep it cool.

Forward tank lid is glass lamnate and I'll paint that white because I'm going to give that a quick fill with some micro-light fairing and it'll look pretty ugly if I leave it clear.

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#62 Great Red Shark

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 02:13 AM

Looking good Jim !

I liked the pic of Robert in command of his own vessel - a salt if ever there was. Speaking of the needed hands to 'git 'er done' - I'll lend a hand for a couple days when you'd like, just let me know.

Also - the pic of the 'cut-out' fromthe keel slot shows (what looks to me to be) core - do you excavate that in the area and fill with hi-density material or is it strong enough with just the skins ?

DW

#63 Jim Donovan

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:16 AM

Looking good Jim !

I liked the pic of Robert in command of his own vessel - a salt if ever there was. Speaking of the needed hands to 'git 'er done' - I'll lend a hand for a couple days when you'd like, just let me know.

Also - the pic of the 'cut-out' fromthe keel slot shows (what looks to me to be) core - do you excavate that in the area and fill with hi-density material or is it strong enough with just the skins ?

DW



Thanks for the offer Dan - come on by anytime - I'm about 1/4 mile towards Akaii from KYC.

The keel cut out is most solid = about 12mm of solid glass w/4mm of carbon from the inner skin reinforcement that ties in with the keel frame.
Working on that frame today and should get some carbon on it tomorrow - last bit to build before the deck goes on (it's been waiting patiently above the hull for a couple months)

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#64 Jim Donovan

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:16 PM

Been a while since my last post - trip back east to work on the GP26 chewed up some of my energy reserves.
But was back in the shop the day after my return home, happy to be in a warmer climate!

Went straight to work on building the final internal frame parts; transverse keel frame.
Made a slight modification to the design, encorporating a topside beam where I'll terminate the shrouds below-deck.

The transverse beams are hllow foam "boxes", with a base laminate of glass DB insode and out, and then covered with bias carbon w/a bunch of carbon UD's in the flange.
There are bulkheads inside to support the box side walls, and internal reinforcements at the keel top bolting and where some control lines penetrate the beam.
For any hollow beam you need to have access inside in case any water leaks in, so there are small "pukas" (holes) in the forward web, also reinforced.
Tapping plates for "chainplates" getting glued into today, and then I'll prep for a carbon cloth finishing layer. This isn't just a cosmetic ply and will help clamp the flange UDs to the beam.

The entire neam structure has been molded and released from the hull, and will be bonded in place w/a SP toughened epoxy adhesive.

This transverse structure is a bit more complicated than I'd do a second time - already have a concept for a simpler structure that can be built ouside the boat on a simple mold.

Dan came by on Saturday and made the transom foam core piece. These seemingly simple tasks take a lot longer than you imagine after you build templates, check for level, etc., etc. I put the carbon laminate on the transom last night, and will get the outside glass laminate in today.

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#65 GybeSet®

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 07:21 PM

thanks for sharing JD, this is getting close to a 'how to' build blog for composite one-offs, with some vid you could sell the DVD

along that thinking Timber could do it with the i550 too ? more call for it !

#66 WCB

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:13 PM

The Ed should incorporate the ability to subscribe to a thread so we can keep tabs on great threads like this. This thread is keeping me inspired to work on my project though it's a fraction of the size.

#67 Jim Donovan

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 04:21 PM

Transom laminate - inner carbon skin & e-glass outer skin for thickness/durability
Core rebates for bonding to hull and deck and for rudder "box".
Transom is set forward 10" or so from the stern to give us a small swim step.

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#68 Jim Donovan

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 04:28 PM

Transverse keel/chainplate beams are looking good. Port side done in this photo - starboard side waiting to get final carbon cloth covering laminate.
Hope to get longitudinal beam glued in place today - might even get the transverse frames glued in too.

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#69 Jim Donovan

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 02:54 PM

Keel frame nearly completed - all parts glued into hull including flange plate.
I have one more plate to glue in - a kind of gusset plate to anchor the transverse beam flanges to the longitudinal frame and give a flate surface for the keel top plate to seal.

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#70 Jim Donovan

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 03:01 PM

Keel frame nearly completed - all parts glued into hull including flange plate.
I have one more plate to glue in - a kind of gusset plate to anchor the transverse beam flanges to the longitudinal frame and give a flate surface for the keel top plate to seal.


Did I mention I have resisted yanking off the nasty looking peel ply you see in all these photos?
The peel ply is worth every penny in saving prep time afterwards as it has kept all excess resin, gllue, paint off the pristine laminate surface just under the peel ply.

I plan to paint the hull surface in the middle of the boat and the forward tank top white - up to the chine.
Hope to pull up the peel ply this weekend and start the interior paint process so I can install the deck.

#71 Jim Donovan

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

Dropped the deck down onto the hull to check a few dimensions prior to cutting the cockpit bulkhead and transom to fit the deck.
The good news is that the deck fits perfectly to the hull - just need to trim the 20mm excess off the the deck edge so it'll match up to the topsides better.

I had attached some MDF at the sheer - glued to the peel ply with dabs of epoxy and cabosil, and 2x4s bracing the cockpit to hold the deck shape before I released it off the deck mold - you can see thos bracing on the photo of the deck hanging above the hull mold getting set-up (Robert's there "working").

When I hoisted the deck up, I was careful to use enough lines to spread the load and avoid bending the deck out of shape.
This extra effort did the trick and the deck has cured with the proper shape - the part is quite stiff and I can walk around on the deck without any bulkheads supporting it.

After we put the deck down on the hull, Brett and I couldn't resist "testing" the weight - eveything was there except about 6 pounds of framing.
The structure is quite light - the two of us easily lifted it off the cradle - probably under 300 lbs at this stage. It'll gain some weight with the sheer laminate and hull bottom faring/paint.
It looks very good for the finished hull and deck structure to come in at around 350 lbs.

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#72 Kestrahl

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 07:55 PM

Dropped the deck down onto the hull to check a few dimensions prior to cutting the cockpit bulkhead and transom to fit the deck.
The good news is that the deck fits perfectly to the hull - just need to trim the 20mm excess off the the deck edge so it'll match up to the topsides better.

I had attached some MDF at the sheer - glued to the peel ply with dabs of epoxy and cabosil, and 2x4s bracing the cockpit to hold the deck shape before I released it off the deck mold - you can see thos bracing on the photo of the deck hanging above the hull mold getting set-up (Robert's there "working").

When I hoisted the deck up, I was careful to use enough lines to spread the load and avoid bending the deck out of shape.
This extra effort did the trick and the deck has cured with the proper shape - the part is quite stiff and I can walk around on the deck without any bulkheads supporting it.

After we put the deck down on the hull, Brett and I couldn't resist "testing" the weight - eveything was there except about 6 pounds of framing.
The structure is quite light - the two of us easily lifted it off the cradle - probably under 300 lbs at this stage. It'll gain some weight with the sheer laminate and hull bottom faring/paint.
It looks very good for the finished hull and deck structure to come in at around 350 lbs.


Not bad, the weight of my shaw 6.5 was 320lbs painted. Keep up the good work.

#73 Jim Donovan

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 02:36 PM

[quote name='Kestrahl' date='Nov 18 2009, 11:55 AM' post='2575419'

Not bad, the weight of my shaw 6.5 was 320lbs painted. Keep up the good work.
[/quote]

Brett and I switched ends of the boat ( I lifted the bow this time) for the "weght check". We can lift it quite easily - well under 300 lbs.
I have a very accurate scale, but it only goes up to 50 pounds. Need to get a proper scale at some stage.

Checking my wt estimate, before paint and all the misc weights of filler and glue that gets on the boat and is classified as the "margin", the base structures should weigh 265 lbs.

I have allowed 23 pounds of "margin", 55 pounds for exterior paint and 22 pounds for interior paint.
This gives a total weight of 365 lbs for the completed hull & deck structures.
But the the deck and topsides are faired w/a couple coats of primer, and the only things left to fair are the hull bottom and sheer.
I suspect I'll end up well below the 365 target - I'm pretty sure I can get to the 320 lb number you achieved on your Shaw.

#74 Wattie

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:24 AM

How has deck mounting been going?
I have been following this thread quietly, but have noticed that its been very still recently, I imagine its because you actually have work to do and a life to live outside of the workshop and SA :)
But more photos would be cool

#75 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:54 AM

The Ed should incorporate the ability to subscribe to a thread so we can keep tabs on great threads like this.

Been here since the move to the new boards three or four years ago. Top right corner of thread on a scrollover menu under "options" - see attached.

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#76 Jim Donovan

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:55 PM

How has deck mounting been going?
I have been following this thread quietly, but have noticed that its been very still recently, I imagine its because you actually have work to do and a life to live outside of the workshop and SA :)
But more photos would be cool


The past couple weeks have been interupted by a trip to Kauai to look at a 57 ft Catamarn that went on the rocks, and the Thanksgiving weekend where I only worked 2 of 4 days.

Progress appears glacial at this stage - a lot of prepping for interior paint/sealer prior to putting the deck on for good.
I really want to avoid having to crawl inside with a sander after the lid gets glued down!

Yesterday I finished laminating pre-made bonding flanges for the interior hull/deck bond. They are attached to an added foam piece at the upper edge of te topside panel to allow a large exterior sheer radius.

More sanding and painting today - goal is to have the deck finally gliued down by the weekend.

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#77 schoonerman

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 06:00 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....



AwlGrip 545 Primer - typically available in white or gray but they make a "Clear Base".

It's a bit thin and you need a few coats to really fill any gaps in the laminate. It also doesn't have a UV inhibitor, so won't work for parts expsoed to the sun.

I have a friend who prefers to use clear Duratec because it's thicker and fills better. He used this product to finish off these pesdestal guards I designed for the latest "Highland Fling"

I prefer the 545 because it's an epoxy base and less likely to affect any secondary bonds if I need to go back and prep a finished surface


God love ya Jim. Are those beer holders on the pedestal guards? :P

This build looks incredible. Waiting for my invite. I'm on a plane when it happens.

#78 thumper

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 11:45 PM

Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!

#79 Bulbhunter

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 11:52 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....



Also need a lot of paint to make a black surface white and look reasonable.

I like to see the hull laminate and bonds in case the boat takes a hit and there's damage.

I will paint (and non-skid) the floor of the boat under the hatch white - a black hull surface gets up to around 160 degrees here in Hawaii, and it's impossible to stand on. Also better for the laminate and core to keep it cool.

Forward tank lid is glass lamnate and I'll paint that white because I'm going to give that a quick fill with some micro-light fairing and it'll look pretty ugly if I leave it clear.



Hey Jim it looks awesome! -- Just a note the floor area- at the hatch you may want to consider some sort of durable removable part to take the impact of crew standing in the companion way or dropping gear down inside the boat. The U20 has a very light skin on the interior and without floor boards it would be easy to damage the hull at the companionway while putting the outboard away (tied to the compression post) or heavy crew jumping down the hatch or into the companion way to get clear of the cockpit during a gybe etc. Just a thought

#80 steveromagnino

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 03:17 AM

It's a pretty awesome tale of boat building.

But I think the more recent shots fail to capture the parrot.

BRING BACK THE BIRD

(have you heard about the word?)

#81 WCB

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:17 AM

Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!


Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.

#82 haz

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:21 PM

Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.


Not 100% positive, but I think it's the Forte turboed 110 from this thread.

Haz

#83 WCB

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:23 PM

Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.


Not 100% positive, but I think it's the Forte turboed 110 from this thread.

Haz


Thanks Haz. I love that boat, the Forte 110. I meant to stop by when I was in Hawaii a year ago, to see the 110 fleet but we never made it down to the bay.

#84 Jim Donovan

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:39 PM

Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!



The fairing/painting process always takes way longer than most people imagine.
When costing custom build projects about 30% of the project hours go to fairing/painting.
You can reduce the hours of painting and fairing the parts by building out of molds, but then you have even a bigger number of hours into building and fairing and painting molds.

Although I have added some filler to the hull bottom on the interior, this is a minimal amount to fair the bonding flanges of the parts.
Everywhere filler was added it was then sanded down thin enough so you could see the laminate through it - probably less than 0.5mm average thickness.
The majority of the hull and deck surfaces have ZERO fairing added.

I'm very happy to get through the interior finishing stage.
The essential reason for putting in the effort is that since we'll own this little beast, I will have many hours to examine the build, and I really don't want to have the regret of wondering why I didn't spend just a little more time to get it right.

I owe a huge debt to Brett for letting me build in his shop, and I'm looking forward to helping him get his 110 rebuilt and out sailing.

First coat of clear primer went on last night. It;s een pouring rain all night, so doubting it'll be dry enough to sand and re-coat today.
Why does it always rain when during final paint jobs?

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#85 Jim Donovan

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:51 PM

Jim,
WTF is clear primer?
Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.
I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....



Also need a lot of paint to make a black surface white and look reasonable.

I like to see the hull laminate and bonds in case the boat takes a hit and there's damage.

I will paint (and non-skid) the floor of the boat under the hatch white - a black hull surface gets up to around 160 degrees here in Hawaii, and it's impossible to stand on. Also better for the laminate and core to keep it cool.

Forward tank lid is glass lamnate and I'll paint that white because I'm going to give that a quick fill with some micro-light fairing and it'll look pretty ugly if I leave it clear.



Hey Jim it looks awesome! -- Just a note the floor area- at the hatch you may want to consider some sort of durable removable part to take the impact of crew standing in the companion way or dropping gear down inside the boat. The U20 has a very light skin on the interior and without floor boards it would be easy to damage the hull at the companionway while putting the outboard away (tied to the compression post) or heavy crew jumping down the hatch or into the companion way to get clear of the cockpit during a gybe etc. Just a thought



The interior hull laminate under the hatch is approx 22 oz of carbin, so essentially bullet-proof.
You end up stepping on the frames as you come down the hatch, and the upper surfaces of those are about twice as thick, so no worry about damage from even very large humans. Sorry to say that really large people may have some difficulty getting inside this boat - the design was tailored for average sized humans.
No plan to stink up the boat with a motor, so not worried abot simeone dropping it in the boat.

#86 thumper

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 12:33 AM

LONG ANSWER:

Hyjacking Jim's thread is ok, he's hyjacked my shop for the last 5 months. When he approached me he said 8 to 10 weeks. Being nice, I said Labor Day. By December 31st, I own it!

Anyway, I've been a 110er since before I was born. My Dad was the Patriarch of the Fleet and now, everytime I bleed, I bleed 110 cells and Alcohol.

As for the 110, for a long time I've thought of deck stepping the mast (18" higher and slightly forward) with a big roach and a non-overlapping jib. My Avatar is a Photoshop of it, to scale. The picture is actually Hull #4 (Built in 1938), taken a year of two ago.

Forte did it but there are a few of things I didn't like about the Forte Boat
1) They compromised the trap for PHRF and went to a 3 man crew. I'd stay with 2 crew and 1 or 2 traps. They also put a 600# (is that right?) bulb. The class is a 300# cast iron, I think you could go to 200 or less on a 6' fin.
2) They moved the forestay forward 18" or so. One of the cool things about the 110 is the overhangs. I'd say 6 to 8" would be ok, especially if you bring the mast forward on to the deck but 18" loses "the look".
3) I'm a Symetrical Chute guy. With the mast up 18" you could also move the D ring down and gain about 30" on the Luff Tapes. Main thing is it gives you time to drink a beer while you race.

When all is said and done, the Forte Boat dimensions out to about the same as a Wylie Wabbit, (http://wyliewabbit.org/) I used to own hull #28. Wabbits go used for $3,000 plus and haul ass. If you've never sailed one, they were the original sport boat. We used to race around Oahu in the Ocean, 25 knts plus, easy! When you blow by a 50 footer going 18, and they are yelling holy shit!, you know your ripping. We'd have 4 wheel drive, passing waves not just surfing them.

The link to my blog is below. Sadly, thru attritrition, we are down to 3 boats, all of which are being completely refurbished as they are almost 40 years old. 621 is on the blog and back sailing. 732 is in it's final stages of bulkheads, tubes, etc. and will get paint "in awhile". As soon as Jim's Boat it out of the shop my Boat will come in and start. I hope to spend 3+ week nights a week on it and a 12 week rebuild. After that, I'll be starting a new boat. Jim knows it's coming but his back rent has been growing into helping me with all of this. Might even be able to punch out a few boats. We have a total of 7 keels left.

http://hawaii110fleet.blogspot.com/ Check it out and scroll all the way to the bottom so you can see a picture of K-Bay, I also have a history of the Hawaii 110 fleet there

Other 110 sites:
www.110class.com
http://www.facebook....id=135090796850 - 110 Fleet Facebook Page

Just for fun, I've also added a link to the forum of my other toy - A Kiwi Boat - Ross 780 http://forums.sailin...showtopic=92361



OK back to Jim.
He should have some new pics in the next few days, he just finished clear coating the entire interior so we can drop the deck tomorrow, maybe even glue it down. The boat looks great, the dude does amazing work.

#87 Kevin Farrar

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 03:04 PM

Hi Thumper,
What is it with 110's? There is a 110 keel less than 15' from the bow transom of the GP26 waiting for a new hull to be built. Actually there is a set of 110 plans here and partially drawn one in an AutoCad file on the harddrive. The deal I had with my wood supplier turned into the mold for the 26. I'm still thinking about the 110 though - Sailed with Oakly J in the Newport RI fleet 2 summers ago - great fun. Your rent over run with be well worth it with Jim help on your rebuild as I'm sure you know. Good luck with the deck today and please pass on my regards to Robert.
Kevin Farrar

#88 thumper

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:25 PM

Kevin,

We really are Hyjacking Jim's Thread. I just got off the phone with him and he's bitching about it (kidding but, there's a little truth in every joke)!

Robert is a cool bird. Anywhere he goes, the place is his. We take him sailing on my Ross and as soon as he's on his winch perch, he's chirping? Barking? whatever, at us to get his boat going. Gotta love a 1# bird with the attitude of a 350# lineman.

The answer about 110s is quite simple but goes back a bit. The 110 is an amazing boat to sail, anyone who has sailed on knows that. The 110 is one of those boats that can bite you in only one sail. I urge anyone who can get out on a 110 to do so. You can pickup a race ready boat in the mid $3,000s and there is a nice one on the market now for $5K.

There were more 110s built in the first 2 years than there were J24s. Since then is obviously a different case. There is a huge Double Edge sword with 110s - The great thing is our 2006 National Champion was hull #4, one of the Boats Ray Hunt built himself in 1938, that's something to brag about. The bummer about the 110s is our 2006 champion was Hull #4. Keeping all hulls competitive has held the class back. Don't get me wrong, I am a proponent of keep the class equal but a long range goal should be a class weight reduction. A lighter boat is a cheaper boat and more exciting. With a reasonable amount of Foam and Fiberglass we can build a long lasting 110 for under 600# for sure. a 300# hull and gear combo (keel is 300#), is a lot cheaper than a 600# combo but Sailing a 600# 110 would immediately render a 910# boat obselete (class minimum). So what do you do? We currently have a corrector weight formula which spreads any corrector weights along the hull (first 75 at the keel bolts, next 50 at other stations, etc.). The heaviest correction to date is 150# on a newer glass boat. Not sure how the formula would work with 300#+ of corrector weights. This is something Jim will be helping me with as we may come up with a proposal for a more accrate (and fair) method. We want to build good cheap boats that can be built reliably by semi skilled labor but this will require some changes that the boys in your neck of the woods may not be comfortable with. Any changes will require scrunity and perservance. In Hawaii, we can lead the way with 3 class legal boats and new builds. Initially, we can bend the rules and experiment to do the homework that may make the difference. The last thing I want is a 4 boat fleet that has one new boat that is unfair. The class has/is doing a lot of sail development that has made the boat more exciting so maybe the wind (attitudes) have shifted a bit. The key to the future of the fleet is to make it easier to get a boat in the water, too many other classes you can write a check and go and most people would rather do that than build a boat. Nuff said?

Got a kick out of your keel coment. For your enjoyment I have included two pictures. I picture #1, if you look carefully thru the scrap wood pile you can see a 110 keel a mere 6' from Jim's boat. Just outside the wall beyond, outside the shop (picture #2) are hull 732 and my boat, the ones I discussed the rebuild statuses of earlier.

Attached File  Post_to_Jim__s_Thread_1.jpg   119.33K   148 downloadsAttached File  Post_to_Jim__s_Thread_2.jpg   104.46K   148 downloads

Another trvia - the 110 is was the first boat to use a trapeze and a chute launching tube. A couple of California guys in the early 60s came up with both of them.

We'll be sure to collaborate on the 110 build, I start a thread on that once it gets going.

Here's the link to my Ross thread.
http://forums.sailin...showtopic=92361

#89 thumper

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:37 PM

With all respect to Jim, I've started an anything 110s thread

http://forums.sailin...=0#entry2603033

Join me there with your 110 thoughts

#90 thumper

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:39 PM

Jim is in the shop now.

Today is a big day, bond in the cockpit frames and drop the deck on and bond it.

I'm sure he'll post pics later.

Sailing tomorrow on the Ross

#91 Flying Wasp

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 12:16 AM

Jim -

Thanks for taking so much time to share the project. Really learning a lot about that it takes to put a boat like this together. I do think there's enough interest in builds like this to do something similar to 'This Old House' but it would be 'This New Boat.' While the pics are great to see, I would LOVE to see an hour of video on the different things you're doing in between the photos. Seeing the techniques come to life and all. Given, this could be an absurd amount of work in terms of video and edit time, but it's the kind of thing I'd watch and even pay a couple bucks for (you listening Scotty?).

FW

#92 bruno

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 06:24 PM

Jim:

Nicely done; I've had to roach (and even paid for) about 12 different "shops" over the past three years in my quest to completion so hele on.

I assume one additional advantage of 545 clear is the brushing reducer? I've never had good results brushing duratec clear or primer. I've yet to use the clear, still using the creme; was just thinking about it, I think Bobby Hare can get it, is that where you got yours?

Big plus saving work later by finishing areas as you go whilst open but it really is tough on morale as you slow down. tradeoffs.

#93 ultraracer613um

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 10:08 PM

Jim,
Are you not bagging the laminate on? Gravity is your friend!


Hi Trevor,

The hull plug is only station molds w/ ribbands, so not sealed to allow vacuum.
The outer skin is only a couple layers of uni glass so don't really need the vacuum for ply consolidation.
The outer skin is designed for thickness to avoid dents from docks and trailers, so the less than "optimal" resin content makes the outer skin a bit thicker and better able to deal with this type of abuse.

Sound like a reasonable justification for going with a cheaper mold?

When possible I have vacuumed the laminate; deck panels, topsides, internal bhds and frames.



Jim,

So as i understad it you are counting on the outer skin laminate to resist denting etc, what part does the core (assuming you are going to core the boat) play into the equation? Are you using the same core through the entire boat or a combination of densities / thickness based on location.

#94 Jim Donovan

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 03:32 PM

Jim,
Are you not bagging the laminate on? Gravity is your friend!


Hi Trevor,

The hull plug is only station molds w/ ribbands, so not sealed to allow vacuum.
The outer skin is only a couple layers of uni glass so don't really need the vacuum for ply consolidation.
The outer skin is designed for thickness to avoid dents from docks and trailers, so the less than "optimal" resin content makes the outer skin a bit thicker and better able to deal with this type of abuse.

Sound like a reasonable justification for going with a cheaper mold?

When possible I have vacuumed the laminate; deck panels, topsides, internal bhds and frames.



Jim,

So as i understad it you are counting on the outer skin laminate to resist denting etc, what part does the core (assuming you are going to core the boat) play into the equation? Are you using the same core through the entire boat or a combination of densities / thickness based on location.


You generally look at the compressive strength of the core as it also helps resist dents in the panel.
Although Corecell A500 is 5.5 lbs/cu.ft., it has a lower compressive strength than Divinycell H80 (5.0 lbs/cu.ft.)
I used Divinycell in the hull and deck.

#95 Jim Donovan

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 03:44 PM

Saturday's glue-down of the deck was delayed partly due to the Kaneohe X-mas parade that turned my normal 5mile x 10 minute commute to the shop into a 15mile x 50 minute traffic nightmare as the parade completely tied up Kam Highway.

As it turns out, I had a lot more hours of prep required than would have allowed me to get it glued down Saturday.
Sunday we went sailing with some out-of-town guests on Brett's Ross 780. Beached the boat on the Sandbar and stood around ankle deep in Kaneohe Bay for an hour or so.
The Ross is quite a great boat for Kaneohe Bay - the self-tacking jib makes the boat absoluely simple to sail, and the lift keel gets you right up on the Sandbar so you don't need to swim in from yacht anchored off in deeper water. Quite civilized.

FINALLY glued the deck down at about 2:30 yesterday afternoon. Very controlled squeeze out in the joints, so happy the bond is very good.
I taped everything below to avoid glue dripping onto the nice paint job - the trick is to pull the tape jaust as the glue has gome beyond gooey, and is headed towards getting firm.

If you don't wait long enough you get goo all over everything - yourself and the boat.
wait too long and what should take 45 minutes will take your 4 or 5 hours.

I just got the tape pulled in time.

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#96 Great Red Shark

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 02:16 AM

Ah yes, the Kaneohe Christmas parade - I learned to loathe that one when I kept boats at Kokokahi - town was a mess as well with the "toys for tots" crowd screwing up traffic and making an unholy racket - makes me embarrassed to be a motorcyclist, it does.

Glad to hear your project is moving steadily - I'm done with the I21 haulout, perhaps I can lend a hand on Saturday - try to get you outta there before the repo-man shows up Jan 1 !

Those cockpit braces look like they'll do nicely.

#97 Jim Donovan

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 04:03 AM

It's a pretty awesome tale of boat building.

But I think the more recent shots fail to capture the parrot.

BRING BACK THE BIRD

(have you heard about the word?)



Robert was back on the job today, so pics coming tomorrow.

#98 Jim Donovan

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 04:42 PM

It's a pretty awesome tale of boat building.

But I think the more recent shots fail to capture the parrot.

BRING BACK THE BIRD

(have you heard about the word?)



Robert was back on the job today, so pics coming tomorrow.



Robert QA-ing the chamfer at the sheer. Did he crap on it?

Sheer radius is formed by faceting the foam at the sheer with a series of chamfer cuts
The first step is shown in the pics - a large cut at approx. 45 degerees to remove the bulk of the material.
Two small chamfers at each edges of this cut give an approximation of a radius.
Then I have a 9 foot long radiused sanding board to fair the foam to the final shape.

Completed the port side chamfer yesterday, and will transfer mesurements to starboard side this morning.

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#99 Jim Donovan

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:17 PM

Past couple of days spent fairing sheer getting ready for today’s final laminate – this is pretty much the last bit of “boat-building” for the hull and deck structure. I have some traveler track beams to build, rudder hanger, a broken mast to mend, spreaders to build, keel and rudder too. Guess I can’t put away the epoxy yet.

Attached photo showing starboard side foam chamfers at sheer prior to radius.

Also built a stack of foam pieces for the stem block – it’s finally starting to look like a proper yacht!

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#100 Jim Donovan

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:25 PM

To get a consistent and fair radius along the sheer, I built a 7 foot long flexible sanding board with an internal radius of 1 ½”.

This is built from a piece of 3” diam ABS pipe. I glued small wood spacers at 7 inch centers and then glassed a well-waxed 1” PVC pipe to these spacers. The next morning I whacked the PVC pipe until it started to slide on the glass a little. The glass fits quite tightly around the PVC pipe, so the sanding board can be bent into a curve and it will tend to stay at that curvature. The sand paper is 4 x 21” long x 3” wide 40 grit sanding belts. I just used spray adhesive to glue them to the inside of the board.

As you move along the sheer it pushing it along it tends to conform to the sheer shape, but is stiff enough to bridge any hollows. You can feel any bumps when the board passes them, so you just sand in those areas a little more until the bump goes away.

Although it took a few hours to build this thing, the time savings in faring the sheer has been well worth it.

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