La Solidaire du Chocolat, Class 40's slugging it out across the Atlantic Options

[Rail Meat]

Thanks for the update, and keep up the pace!

For those who may have missed it on the race website, the attached pictuer is of the damage to Tieto's keel structure. Does not look good....

Attached File(s)

 Tieto_Passion_Keel_Bolt.jpg ( 351.56K ) Number of downloads: 84

 

[LeoV]

THanks Rm, can not see much in that pic, looks not horrible to me, and that part on the front is not structural, because you do not use CSM in structural parts, in any case Lombard would not accept that.
But hey, armchair sailor/builder , if they feel the keel move, its probably moving... but this photo does not show much.

[SYDE]

THanks Rm, can not see much in that pic, looks not horrible to me, and that part on the front is not structural, because you do not use CSM in structural parts, in any case Lombard would not accept that.
But hey, armchair sailor/builder , if they feel the keel move, its probably moving... but this photo does not show much.

What is that thing on top? A weed cutter? Does anybody know if that is standard on the boat. maybe an owner addition, which could account for the CSM. Just a theory though.

It is a letter box construction, if the keel is moving - tighten the bolts.

[LeoV]

Maybe an endoscoop thingy ? Was wondering the same. Did not see it on a standard Akilaria.

[SYDE]

Maybe an endoscoop thingy ? Was wondering the same. Did not see it on a standard Akilaria.

I have seen endoscopes plenty, and that ain't it. The yellow/green? cable should be ground I figure. Maybe this is somebodies idea of how to connect to the keel? I would, well, use the keel bolts for that.

I have to say whether Marc allowed it or not, that lamination is not my cup of tea.

[CPJIII]

And Bernard/Bruno make the pass...this should be a close finish for 2nd and 3rd

[chichi]

And what about the guys on Sail4Cancer ! Fantastic performance for a totally self-funded campaign by 2 amateur sailors (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Rail Meat]

Breakages List, Updated. New Items in bold.

As of November 13 , 2009

Boats That Abandoned the Race

• Les Conquerants de Normandie - Caen la mer (Rolland design, Jumbo) - Skipper tore a pectoral muscle
• Jardin Bio (Beaufort design, Ecole Sup du Bois built) - Came off a wave and slamed into the trough, suffering delamination forward of the mast
• Appart City (Marin design, FR Nautisme built) - Mainsail tore above the 2nd reef. Also had damage to the port rudder
• Amhas (Lombard designed Akilaria 1) - Problems with the charging system, autopilots and wind wands
• PHR (Lucas design, home built) - Problems with the autopilot
• Tales-Ville Esperanza (Lombard Akilaria 1.5) - Problems with the autopilot. Attempted repair in port prior to retiring. One skipper also injured multiple ribs.
• Pole Sante Elior-Mistral Loisirs (Lombard designed Akilaria 2) - Problems with the track for the main. One post indicated it was the track separating from the mast, another post indicated it was the headboard.
• Orca (Humphries designed Orca, Ocean Technologie built)- Concerns about the deck structure at the foot of the mast. Reported here on SA that uprights used to support the chart table had some issues, maybe tabbing but nothing that compromised the structural integrity of the boat.
• Tieto Passion (Lombard Akilaria 1) - Lost their VHF antenna at the mast head and their annenometer. Some unspecified problem with their Inmarsat. Withdrew from race due to cracks in the composite around their keel fitting. Report indicates that keel is moving, perhaps the bolts have loosened up.
• Vale Inco Nouvelle Caledonie (Finot Pogo) - Mainsail tear between the 2nd and 3rd reef points. Required a pit stop and professional repair to the sail. Torn Spinnaker. Both Spinnakers damaged beyond repair. Mainsail blown out on several seams and panel. Forced out of the race because of the lack of functional sails.

Boats Still In the Race

• Cargill-MTTM (?) - alternator is not working. Stopped in St. Barts for a successful repair. Reports seem to indicate that it was an alternator belt problem.
• Cheminees Poujoulat (Rogers design, CMI built)- Diesel leak. Main sail is pulling away from cars, presumably because the batten pockets are failing. Inability to get weather data. Did not make a pit stop in St. Barts. Apparently they physically lost their Irridium antenna. Comments indicate that they lost all of their batten cars on the main.
• KeySource (Lombard Akilaria 1) - Primary Autopilot stopped working, forcing them to their back up pilot. Lost their NMEA network that shares data between the PC and the instruments which means they have to plot position manually into Deckman. No wind instruments. Also having problems with their AIS. Windex at that the top of the mast is no longer secure. Primary alternator has failed. Skipper badly burnt his hand
• Axa Atout Coeur pour Aides (Alar design, JPK Composites built) - Lost the arial off the top of the mast. Problems with the water ballast system. One skipper rebroke a rib that had been previously injured. Torn Spinnaker.
• Plan, Les Enfants changeront le monde (Finot Pogo)- The Activ' eco Antenna was washed off the stern rail
• Groupe Picoty (Finot Pogo) - Had a mainsail tear, which tore again after the repair and has limited them to 4 reefs in the main since the 29th. Also broke the shackle on their solent halyard. Anemomenter was torn off the mast head.
• Desafio Cabo de Hornos (Verdier design, FR Nautisme built) - Both wind wands stopped working with one wand that then later started to work again, lost 3 or 4 mainsail cars and had damage to their Solent (Jib) tack line. Wire connections to their batteries were shooken loose. One skipper suffered a head wound, and there also has been an ankle injury. One instance of the autopilot acting up.
• Sail4Cancer (Lombard Akilaria 1) - Broken solent halyard and an electrical fire. They lost their anenometer at the mast head which in turn took off their VHF antenna and Windex. Broke a batten car on their mainsail, and one skipper cracked a rib. Water maker is not working which may create a requirement to stop in St. Barts. Did not stop in St. Barts, and got enough water made to keep going.
• 40 Degrees (Owen Clarke design, Jaz built) - Frequent problems with their Autopilot. This is the only pilot that has been mentioned by name as being a B&G. Also several minor leaks in the boat.
• Initiatives Novedia (Rogers design, CMI built)- Broken batten in the solent. "Problems reading wind strength" (no further indication of what the problem might be)
• Telecom Italia (Verdier design, FR Nautisme built) - Sheared the top swivel on the forestay, that attached their forestay to the mast. Damage to the main bulkhead.
• Credit Maritime (Finot Pogo) - Autopilot stopped working. Stopped in port to attempt a repair that did not work, then made a second stop in port for repairs that seemed to work.
• Orbis (Lucas design, home built) - Fried the power supply for the computer. Lost the windex from the top of the mast, although from the comments it looks like it might have been the B&G anenometer that was lost. Damage to the Solent (Jib) sail. Top batten on the mainsail burst through its pocket. Second and third reef lines for the main sail "failed", with subsequent comments indicating that it might have been splices that failed. Main outhaul "snapped". Minor leaks. Lost the small kite & snuffer to catastrophic damage. Damaged the big kite, but repaired. Big kite damaged again at St. Barts.
• Adriatech (?) - Autopilot is experiencing problems. "Lost" two spinnakers and comments indicate that they will not be available for the rest of the race. Stated that they lost their wind indicator early on, but not sure if this is the windex or the anenometer. Mainsail has now opened up a seam below the first reef, clear across the sail.

Ten boats had to drop out, 9 for problems with boat or equipment and 1 due to an injury. Of the remaining 14 boats, all of them have had one or more issues that made it to the race site. The problems have run the range, although there seems to be relatively few (three) structural issues. There are a fair number of autopilot problems (7 boats), and a significant number of boats that have lost the equipment at their masthead (9 boats). Five boats have had tears in their main sails and four boats have had damage to main sail batten cars. Virtually the entire fleet has had damage of various sorts to their spinnaker inventory.
[/quote]

[spike]

Maybe an endoscoop thingy ? Was wondering the same. Did not see it on a standard Akilaria.

I have seen endoscopes plenty, and that ain't it. The yellow/green? cable should be ground I figure. Maybe this is somebodies idea of how to connect to the keel? I would, well, use the keel bolts for that.

I have to say whether Marc allowed it or not, that lamination is not my cup of tea.

Hard to tell what is happening in that photo. I would guess the wire is going to a keel bolt as a ground. I would guess that that tube like thing is a sprue hole for potting the keel head in the keel box on intial installation. I would guess that if the keel is moving, they did not do a proper job of potting and that there are voids in the pocket....tightening the bolts will not solve this. The sprue hole situation looks like an after thought....perhaps because they knew they did not get enough potting on the first go.

[automatic writer]

Soldini complains some (small) undisclosed issues concerning energy, so that they can't use the water maker.

They are also running short of food.

[LeoV]

Here a photo of the keel,
not much sprueing needed.

Clicky clicky

So sail for cancer funded by the sailors ?
Can not imagen one of the two sailors having a lot of money as far as I know him ( a little).

[chichi]

Here a photo of the keel,
not much sprueing needed.

Clicky clicky

So sail for cancer funded by the sailors ?
Can not imagen one of the two sailors having a lot of money as far as I know him ( a little).

Yep totally funded by the sailors - no sponsorship from anyone - the boat is chartered.
Also as the chosen charity is not registered in France, it did not receive the E25,000 that the other charities did - I believe the same happened to the American sailors charity as it is California based. The boys on Sail4Cancer are hoping to raise some money - people can donate directly to the charity online at www.sail4cancer.org

[Kalumder]

it was a very interesting race, and it has been a while since Soldini has been defeated, but he did manage to edge out Stamm for 2nd place... well done to De Lamotte and Hardy.

I think this race proves that the class 40 is not as robust or fail proof as the portimao global race suggested. The lack of competition in the portimao race did not really force those skippers to push hard, imo. plenty of lessons to be learned for the class from this race, as the boats still have many issues which can be fixed. I cant wait for the next races


btw, Farr announced it will build a class 40 boat...

[automatic writer]

it was a very interesting race, and it has been a while since Soldini has been defeated, but he did manage to edge out Stamm for 2nd place... well done to De Lamotte and Hardy.

Yes, 3 months ago, in the Fastnet race and still by De Lamotte.

Chapeau, even if in this case there's been a bit of (bad) luck ...

[Rail Meat]

it was a very interesting race, and it has been a while since Soldini has been defeated, but he did manage to edge out Stamm for 2nd place... well done to De Lamotte and Hardy.

I think this race proves that the class 40 is not as robust or fail proof as the portimao global race suggested. The lack of competition in the portimao race did not really force those skippers to push hard, imo. plenty of lessons to be learned for the class from this race, as the boats still have many issues which can be fixed. I cant wait for the next races


btw, Farr announced it will build a class 40 boat...

Hmmm...... my take is a bit different. These guys got pasted with 4 or 5 pretty severe lows and came out of it with only three out of 2 boats that had any structural issues and no boats abandoned. No rigs lost. All of the other issues were due to issues that speak to prep or to choices made in sail cloth, batten pockets and cars, water makers, or other things that can be dealt with in preparation.

Contrast that to the damage in the IMOCA 60 fleet during the TJV with I think only one low so far. I would argue that the Class 40's have had a lower incendice of failure than the IMOCA 60's, and with more severe conditions.

The Class rules only require a Cat 1 build, and for weight reasons a lot of the boats are only built to Cat 1 including all of the boats in this race with the exception of Desafio. Portimoa will require a Class 40 built to Cat 0 standards, which will require some modification to most of the existing boats, or a new build. I am going to over simplify the issue, but this will mean an additional bulkhead, some water tight doors in those bulkheads, and an additional hatch or two. Looking at the structural issues in this race (and having a very limited amount of information to go on, that additional structure would not have helped with the keel issue, but may have had some benefit in the two other structural problems that were experienced.

[LeoV]

Yeah forget that keel problem till you know more.
I had a client that mentioned a wobbly keel too.
Picked up the boat, sailed in the winter accross the Med, hauled it out, with client, and cold not get the keel to wobbly how hard we tried... THere was a big dent in the bulb though... He hit rocks, never told us, and since then did not trust the keel.
Nice to have such clients (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JRowse]

it was a very interesting race, and it has been a while since Soldini has been defeated, but he did manage to edge out Stamm for 2nd place... well done to De Lamotte and Hardy.

I think this race proves that the class 40 is not as robust or fail proof as the portimao global race suggested. The lack of competition in the portimao race did not really force those skippers to push hard, imo. plenty of lessons to be learned for the class from this race, as the boats still have many issues which can be fixed. I cant wait for the next races


btw, Farr announced it will build a class 40 boat...

Hmmm...... my take is a bit different. These guys got pasted with 4 or 5 pretty severe lows and came out of it with only three out of 2 boats that had any structural issues and no boats abandoned. No rigs lost. All of the other issues were due to issues that speak to prep or to choices made in sail cloth, batten pockets and cars, water makers, or other things that can be dealt with in preparation.

Contrast that to the damage in the IMOCA 60 fleet during the TJV with I think only one low so far. I would argue that the Class 40's have had a lower incendice of failure than the IMOCA 60's, and with more severe conditions.

The Class rules only require a Cat 1 build, and for weight reasons a lot of the boats are only built to Cat 1 including all of the boats in this race with the exception of Desafio. Portimoa will require a Class 40 built to Cat 0 standards, which will require some modification to most of the existing boats, or a new build. I am going to over simplify the issue, but this will mean an additional bulkhead, some water tight doors in those bulkheads, and an additional hatch or two. Looking at the structural issues in this race (and having a very limited amount of information to go on, that additional structure would not have helped with the keel issue, but may have had some benefit in the two other structural problems that were experienced.

I'm with RM. The Solidaire fleet was dealing with horrendous conditions for longer than the TJV fleet in boats 2/3 of the size and with far less catastrophic problems, look at BT being abandoned for a caved in coachroof. Most of the retirements in the Solidaire came down to preparation and choice of equipment. I think this race goes to show how robust the boats designed to the Class 40 rule really are. Also wonderful to see guys like Nicko Brennan finishing in 5th against legends like Bernard Stamm and Giovanni Soldini with an old chartered boat and no sponsor. From experience I can tell you the boats are absolutely great to sail offshore and I would expect to continue seeing the class grow.

[faijai]

Well done Key source and all the others!
What a race!
Only round the world no-stop race is longer?
Look forward to the insiders view ,when you have recovered, Racing Ron.