Saving Racing, Observations from an old fart Options

[syrenab32]

I didn't write the book because I have the answers, or to suggest that one answer is better than another, but only to lob out a couple of plausible, tangible ways that we might agree to improve our lot; to test to see if the discussion and the tenor could be improved. But not just the sailing discussion -- the life discussion -- the one we are having right now, about whether we can agree to live together, and cooperate to defend what's good, and work to improve what's not so good.

One of the sharper criticisms that I am getting (mostly, it seems, from speculating non-readers) is that I can only see in the rear view mirror; that the world is modernizing and changing in a way that I can't understand. Indeed, we straddle a wide, and deep ravine. Living now means seeing and feeling both the analog and the organic, and the digital and the automated. We are blessed with the best of both at the same time that we are cursed with the worst. Saving Sailing simply suggests that we don't have to reject the old good in order to embrace the new... in fact, it shows how the new is often improved by the old.

The book commits many chapters to the process of mentoring, because mentors are the key to this kind of productive progress. Mentors use the past to inform the present, and then use collective experiences to embrace and shape the future, as they firmly hold the hands of others who are perhaps less prepared for it. Like these guys are doing: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=98540

Complete post: http://www.savingsailing.com/Home/Blog/Ent...he_Horizon.html

-ndh

[Brass]

I'm not persuaded by 'kids need to have others in the boat with them'.

Kids don't have a buddy with them on their scooters, or on their bikes, or on their skis.

yes in effect they do. On skis/boards you ski for 30-60 seconds and then you stop and socialize. You watch your buddies do a jump. You show off for the girls doing a jump. Same on bicycles. and both are extensions of the body

My, perhaps not well made, was that when biking, skiing, boarding, kids don't rely on a buddy in or on the equipment for socialising, they socialise with other kids 'alongside' their bike etc.

Good point about the pauses.

I think you see something very like this watching junior sailors sailing 'out of class': they flock up, they chat, one or two zoom off and try something then come back to the group.

Does what Baltic is saying lead us to a notion that, to meet the socialising needs of kids, sailing activities would do well to:

1) provide at least equal time to non-structured on-water 'socialising', and
2) keep the chunks of structured actvity really small, if not 30-60 sec, say at least under 5 min.

Note that this is the very opposite of common coaching practice where coaches usually regard kids bunching up and chatting, while the coach gives feedback to another individual, as a criminal waste of time, and demand that when the coach is not with you you should be diligently practicing individually.

even in a smallish fleet on a smallish course, the edge of the boat creates the same sort of "isolation syndrome" you get in a car, though admittedly a bit less intensely.

You seem to be talking about during an actual race.

Where this seems to be leading me is that if kids are going to get 'socialisation value' out of sailing they need to spend much less time in structured activites such as racing and drills and skills coachng and practice, and be given much more opportunity for unstructured on and off the water socialising (play?).

[Madmax]

Bring back Reaching legs!

[BalticBandit]

even in a smallish fleet on a smallish course, the edge of the boat creates the same sort of "isolation syndrome" you get in a car, though admittedly a bit less intensely.

You seem to be talking about during an actual race.

Where this seems to be leading me is that if kids are going to get 'socialisation value' out of sailing they need to spend much less time in structured activites such as racing and drills and skills coachng and practice, and be given much more opportunity for unstructured on and off the water socialising (play?).

Well perhaps the kind of waterfront play you get at "Camp" might work best, where you have short bursts of competitive action on the water and then back to shore to trade off.

Some of it also depends on the venue. Seattle has very cold water that inhibits "play" between racing.

[Brass]

even in a smallish fleet on a smallish course, the edge of the boat creates the same sort of "isolation syndrome" you get in a car, though admittedly a bit less intensely.

You seem to be talking about during an actual race.

Where this seems to be leading me is that if kids are going to get 'socialisation value' out of sailing they need to spend much less time in structured activites such as racing and drills and skills coachng and practice, and be given much more opportunity for unstructured on and off the water socialising (play?).

Well perhaps the kind of waterfront play you get at "Camp" might work best, where you have short bursts of competitive action on the water and then back to shore to trade off.

Some of it also depends on the venue. Seattle has very cold water that inhibits "play" between racing.

Interesting point. All of us who were born and brough up in warm sunny climates assume that 'playing around' on the water is possible and pleasurable. Maybe this is a really important distinction we should be making between areas/climates.

[kent_island_sail...]

We used to go up on the Spa Creek Bridge, wait for traffic to stop, and loudly declare "we can't take it anymore - we are going to end it all" and jump off the bridge and swim back to AYC.
I guess no one does THAT in Seattle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

*actually we didn't do it for long before the adults ruined our fun and made us stop.....................

Interesting point. All of us who were born and brough up in warm sunny climates assume that 'playing around' on the water is possible and pleasurable. Maybe this is a really important distinction we should be making between areas/climates.

[Phoenix]

We did it for a long time after we became chronological adults. We didn't stop until the police became really irate and threatened jail if we didn't stop it.

[Bump-n-Grind]

I'm not persuaded by 'kids need to have others in the boat with them'.

Kids don't have a buddy with them on their scooters, or on their bikes, or on their skis.

yes in effect they do. On skis/boards you ski for 30-60 seconds and then you stop and socialize. You watch your buddies do a jump. You show off for the girls doing a jump. Same on bicycles. and both are extensions of the body

My, perhaps not well made, was that when biking, skiing, boarding, kids don't rely on a buddy in or on the equipment for socialising, they socialise with other kids 'alongside' their bike etc.

Good point about the pauses.

I think you see something very like this watching junior sailors sailing 'out of class': they flock up, they chat, one or two zoom off and try something then come back to the group.

Does what Baltic is saying lead us to a notion that, to meet the socialising needs of kids, sailing activities would do well to:

1) provide at least equal time to non-structured on-water 'socialising', and
2) keep the chunks of structured actvity really small, if not 30-60 sec, say at least under 5 min.

Note that this is the very opposite of common coaching practice where coaches usually regard kids bunching up and chatting, while the coach gives feedback to another individual, as a criminal waste of time, and demand that when the coach is not with you you should be diligently practicing individually.

even in a smallish fleet on a smallish course, the edge of the boat creates the same sort of "isolation syndrome" you get in a car, though admittedly a bit less intensely.

You seem to be talking about during an actual race.

Where this seems to be leading me is that if kids are going to get 'socialisation value' out of sailing they need to spend much less time in structured activites such as racing and drills and skills coachng and practice, and be given much more opportunity for unstructured on and off the water socialising (play?).

my kid spends some time with me here during the summer, she lives in the midwest with her mother.. I usually put her into a two week sailing camp at my club. at the end of the day when I go pick her up and ask her what the favorite part of the day was, it's invariably the capsizing contest they had sailing back in for lunch.. it's never the roll-tack drill. But I think she's starting to realize that she's using some of what she learned in roll-tack drill in making more spectacular capsizes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[syrenab32]

I'll read the book if its in the library, but I doubt it has much in it that has real market data. And absent market data, this is just speculation.

1.) Name your library here -- or PM is you wish. Library gifting happening now, and your's will be added to the list.
2.) Market data abounds. Skepticism applauded, but absent attention it is just speculation. Start here and ask.

http://www.savingsailing.com/Home/Blog/Ent...ng_Sailing.html

[doghouse]

Virginia Beach Public Libraries, Oceanfront branch.

[schoonerman]

I'll read the book if its in the library, but I doubt it has much in it that has real market data. And absent market data, this is just speculation.

1.) Name your library here -- or PM is you wish. Library gifting happening now, and your's will be added to the list.
2.) Market data abounds. Skepticism applauded, but absent attention it is just speculation. Start here and ask.

http://www.savingsailing.com/Home/Blog/Ent...ng_Sailing.html

San Francisco Public Library System - SOMA/South Beach Branch.
San Mateo County Library System - Belmont Library.

For those of you who may be in the Biz....Robert Hale Books distributes "Saving Sailing."

I've purchased 5 copies and have given them to friends and requested them to pay it forward. One went to my YC.

[Batman]

Name your library here -- or PM is you wish. Library gifting happening now, and your's will be added to the list.

Novi Public Library
45245 W. Ten Mile Road
Novi, MI 48375-3014
(248) 349-0720

Additionally, if you are feeling extra generous, maybe think about the collegiate demo.
Office of Development
Libraries, Computing, & Technology
Michigan State University
100 Library
East Lansing, MI 48824-1048
517.884.6445

[BeBop]

Sailing and racing sailboats is as expensive as you want it to be. Melcriptowhatthefuck just got given a Cal 25. It needs some work, but it isn't in bad shape overall. For less than $3,000 and some sweat equity they could hit the line with as good a boat as anyone else. Maybe it isn't the fanciest new toy on the block. However, the Cal 25 raft ups are legendary and have been for 40 years. Can the guys who drop the crew off after a point to point and motor home say they had as much fun?

It is the people. Somehow we need to focus on enabling more things like the Cal 25 raft up.

OK, so Etchells is out why Cal 25? When I see 18 frostbiting at Annapolis YC I ask myself the same question.

[Phoenix]

They emphasise the social aspects of fleet building as much as the boat speed aspects. There is a great range of talent in the fleet, along with a good number of total neophytes. Therefore, some of the more overbearing aspects of ego display tend to be tempered by actual helpfulness. Because of their active socialization, there is some area where everyone can volunteer and feel fully vested.

[kent_island_sail...]

Some fleets I have been in would do stuff like "donate" crew to undermanned boats or inexperienced crews to help them keep up.

They emphasise the social aspects of fleet building as much as the boat speed aspects. There is a great range of talent in the fleet, along with a good number of total neophytes. Therefore, some of the more overbearing aspects of ego display tend to be tempered by actual helpfulness. Because of their active socialization, there is some area where everyone can volunteer and feel fully vested.

[syrenab32]

I'll read the book if its in the library, but I doubt it has much in it that has real market data. And absent market data, this is just speculation.

1.) Name your library here -- or PM is you wish. Library gifting happening now, and your's will be added to the list.
2.) Market data abounds. Skepticism applauded, but absent attention it is just speculation. Start here and ask.

http://www.savingsailing.com/Home/Blog/Ent...ng_Sailing.html

San Francisco Public Library System - SOMA/South Beach Branch.
San Mateo County Library System - Belmont Library.

For those of you who may be in the Biz....Robert Hale Books distributes "Saving Sailing."

I've purchased 5 copies and have given them to friends and requested them to pay it forward. One went to my YC.

Library donations made to:
- Novi
- MSU
- San Fran
- San Mateo
- Virginia Beach

Will take a couple of weeks to arrive.

BalticBandit -- where is your library?
Thanks for making the pay-it-forward move, Schnoonerman.

-ndh

[doghouse]

Great news Nick! That will be an excellent addition to our community!