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M32 Gold Cup


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#1 AECMX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 02:49 AM

http://www.yachtscor...eet.cfm?eID=295

This looks like an interesting line up with interesting teams. Top ten guesses?

#2 The Goose

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:11 AM

USA 184

#3 chicken eater

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 05:09 AM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

#4 Irishdriver

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 05:32 AM

STAR USA 32

Jeff, Harry, Bora, Sarah, et al....they'll get it done.

#5 bgulari

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:51 AM

STAR USA 32

Jeff, Harry, Bora, Sarah, et al....they'll get it done.


thanks for the vote of confidence, too bad they have a rook pitman(me)

#6 Pai

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 01:50 PM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?


SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

#7 chicken eater

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 02:51 PM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?


SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.


The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.

#8 Pai

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:09 PM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?


SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.


The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.



Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.

#9 T L

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:11 PM

Pinta?

#10 chicken eater

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:29 PM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?


SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.


The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.



Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.



Sorry for the confusion with the poor wording. I meant to ask where are the current 2009 world champions, Bilksem. Perhaps the boat is still in Europe?

#11 MER

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:07 PM

Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?


SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.


The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.



Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.



Sorry for the confusion with the poor wording. I meant to ask where are the current 2009 world champions, Bilksem. Perhaps the boat is still in Europe?


Bliksem's new boat won't be ready until Miami, and they've got racing to do in Europe with the World Champ winning boat. Primo Cup in February I think, and then the Audi Series starts in April or May. a

#12 Stiffler's Mom

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:27 PM

Every boat is stacked. Reminds me of the old Farr 40 days. I'll go for Alex Jackson or Pierinni, love teh underdog.

#13 beatyourskipper

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:20 PM

I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.

#14 AECMX

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:10 AM

I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.


I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?

#15 Colin

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:24 AM

I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.


I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?

He said "entirly amature" not entirely amateur. Big difference. Its actually Italian, and means that they are all "gardeners" and "mail men."


Actually New Wave is a great program with some very good genuinely amateur sailors and I'm always happy to see them beat up on the big boys.



I'll reserve my call on who will win the event until I see all the boats in the water.

#16 beatyourskipper

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:41 PM

I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.


I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?


Scott was not on the boat last year in Key West and Doug has not been on the boat in about two years. He will be on the boat in Luderdale, but not Key West or Miami.

#17 AECMX

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 03:50 PM

What ever happened to those Texas boats? Lots of bravado last couple of years from them. Wasn't there a couple of different Pensacola boats? What happened to them? I sure thought more European boats would be sailing in the US this winter too.

#18 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 04:11 PM

What ever happened to those Texas boats? Lots of bravado last couple of years from them. Wasn't there a couple of different Pensacola boats? What happened to them? I sure thought more European boats would be sailing in the US this winter too.

I think you'll see more Euro boats here next year. Mascalzone, Joe Fly, and Uka Uka are all racing KW in either Farr 40 or M24 classes and the Monaco Primo Cup is in March I think, so it probably didn't make sense to ship just for Gold Cup this year. Fantasticaa should be solid though, they had some solid results at worlds in tough conditions. It's going to be interesting to see how STAR does, once the class of the fleet but long out of practice, and with some new blood aboard...

#19 port tack

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 04:40 PM

I have to with my home town boys on Rougarou to take it.

#20 AECMX

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 03:41 PM

Any hope getting conditions like this in Ft Lauderdale?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=v9UiarNVv9E

#21 hayesrigging

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 08:25 PM

One Texas boat, Mojo, will sit out this years Florida circuit. We may be back in time for San Fran but owner says for sure be back for Ft. Lauderdale next year. The other Texas boat, Black River is still sitting at the yacht club will all the covers on for sale. I am bummed not to be in Ft. Laud. or Key West with the 32's, it is such a great boat and two great venues for racing.

#22 Pai

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:40 PM

Any hope getting conditions like this in Ft Lauderdale?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=v9UiarNVv9E



Still pretty far out, but the conditions are looking great for the practice days!

Synopsis (Ft. Lauderdale)
High pressure will move east to the western Atlantic by early Sunday. Generally good boating conditions should prevail at least through Tuesday across all of the South Florida coastal waters. Winds will pick up on Wednesday ahead of a cold front expected to sweep across the area on Thursday. Hazardous and rough marine conditions will likely affect all of South Florida waters Wednesday night and Thursday.

#23 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 05:15 PM

We'll see Pai - I'll tell you what though, it is going to be GREAT to catch up with so many friends at Gold Cup, a quick look at the crew lists shows Viper friends, Melges 24 friends, Melges 20 friends, Mumm 30 friends, and Farr 40 friends. Good to see that the M32 is sucking in all the other sailors!

We are definitely confirmed, with a nice surprise or two. The first big one is a welcome to Sharon Green and Ultimate Sailing as one of our sponsors for Gold Cup, and the second is the deal we made with Kattack to bring real-time tracking to OTW Anarchy. We have played with the prototype for some time, and we're confident that the Kattack guys have it sorted, meaning you'll have videos, pics, and now, live tracking for the entire event.

Good shit, and welcome to Sharon.

#24 Essex

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 06:37 PM

Might be a good idea to put a Kattack tracking device onboard the OTWA ride :lol:

Not that you would ever be in the wrong place & interfering with racing, but you never know who might accuse you.

#25 1sailor

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:12 AM

http://www.yachtscor...eet.cfm?eID=295

This looks like an interesting line up with interesting teams. Top ten guesses?



Heartbreaker team making their Melges 32 debut here, but I'll put them in the top-10 anyway. good = good, regardless of boat class.

Speaking of good, I see Hutchinson listed on one of the devos kids' boats. Cool !

Can't wait to watch the event online, way more interesting than the stupid AC debacle.

#26 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:23 AM

Spread the word, E!

#27 SailDry

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:40 AM

ISAF category police are having a field day. Four interviews on one boat.

#28 Peacefrog

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:51 AM

What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!

#29 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:00 AM

From the mysterious front page...


Golden Boys

While the world's economy collapsed, taking a great deal of Grand Prix yacht racing with it, a funny thing happened: An pricy little rocket prospered.

We're talking of course about the Melges 32, which has again drawn a 20+ strong fleet for their Gold Cup this weekend, the first of a four-part winter series that starts here in the trade winds and topaz waters of Ft. Lauderdale and ends with the class's first-ever trip to Charleston Race Week. And On-The-Water Anarchy will, once again, be on hand to bring the entire regatta to your computer screens.

Lessons Learned

While our live, streaming video coverage of every minute of the Melges 24 Worlds was a first in the sport, we took a lot of crap for excessively long periods of boredom between mark roundings. And the criticism was spot-on. Streaming video simply doesn't work for big fleet racing on open courses - the distances are too great and, unless you get permission to run up and down the middle of the course amongst the racers, a 90 minute race only has about 10 minutes of interesting video action. And even a dozen interviews each morning can't fill up the dead spots.

So we proved we could overcome the technological difficulties only to find out that we couldn't overcome the lack of content. But we're quick learners, and for Gold Cup we're back to a formula that worked so well for our M32 Worlds coverage in Porto Cervo this summer: Short videos of every start, mark rounding, and finish posted to YouTube with just a few minutes delay. Real time text commentary in the OTW Anarchy forum. Dozens of interviews with the most interesting people at the event - and there are some great characters at this one. Our live "Cocktail Hour" talk show, with the top names in sailing in attendance. And great photos and slideshows from the lovely Meredith Block.

But Wait, There's More...

Many of you also pointed out that real-time tracking info would make your spectating a lot more meaningful. It's something that we've been working on since we brought the first real-time tracking to you from a buoy race back at the Canada's Cup, but the technology simply hasn't been available for mass market use. But that's changed now, with the guys at well-known race replayer Kattack bringing their real-time solution to market just a few weeks ago. We'll be featuring the embedded Kattack live player on our OTW Anarchy live screen, along with links to the daily forum threads and everything else you need to know about the event. This will definitely be a first.

Chillin'

We also have responded to another criticism - that of our sometimes bawdy nature and occasional overexhuberance from one or more exhibitionist female crew members. While we know that many of you love when we get all "Girls Gone Wild" during OTWA, we're toning it down for this one in appreciation of host Lauderdale Yacht Club's awesome "Take a Junior Sailing Day." For the third straight year, part of the NOR requires each competitor to host a junior sailor aboard for all of Saturday's racing. It's a great way to get kids the ride of a lifetime, and we want those kids to be able to check out all the event's action without being showered with F-Bombs or jiggling bits. And with our new attitude, we've even lured Melges Performance Sailboats President Andy Burdick and Melges Europe President Federico Michetti to the OTW coverage boat as guest commentators for two of the three days of action.

Pigs are flying somewhere.

A Cast Of Characters

Most of you OTWA fans know dozens of the players that will be racing at Gold Cup. Many are sailing's new breed of rock star, and you've met them in much more accessible places than the America's Cup, the VOR, or the Medcup. They are one-design, ultra-high-performance specialists, and their names include young studs like Bora Gulari, Steve Hunt, Matt Noble, Bear Peet, Jonny Goldsberry, and Jeremy Wilmot as well as not-so-young studs like Dave Ullman, Jud Smith, Wally Cross, and Terry Hutchinson. They've all made their appearances on OTWA in the past, and we're stoked to get to follow and party with them down in Lauderdale. If you have any questions for any of these guys (see crew lists here) - and dozens of other top racers - pass them along. There's new blood too, with movement into the class from the dump-truck Swan 42s with Celeritas and Arethusa, and additional defection from the Farr 40 class with Ramrod and Heartbreaker. Will there be any US one-design big-boat class left in another year?

Pimped

We're immensely grateful to another stellar lineup of sponsors for our coverage of Gold Cup, who will be offering big discounts and great prizes for those that tune in to OTWA. Please check them out.

A huge welcome to the lovely and talented Sharon Green, whose Ultimate Sailing joins On-The-Water Anarchy to show off their great line of calendars, awesome eco-friendly recycled shopping bags covered with great sailing shots, and a complete lineup of gift ideas for the racer in your life. We alsp want to welcome back previous sponsors Kattack, the always-reliable Latis Yachting Solutions, and the excellent Charleston Race Week, which will host the 32s as one of 2010 points events for the first time. And of course our biggest supporter is Point Loma Outfitting, who makes sure we look at least as good on the water as the top Italian teams - no mean feat.

We'll be giving away three pairs of shiney new Kaenon sunglasses, some Ultimate Sailing calendars, and more - so check out the Gold Cup Preview on Thursday's front page for more info and the links to all the action. Here's a thread in the mean time, you can check out last year's Gold Cup coverage here, and the 32 Worlds coverage here.

Gold Times!










What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!

Yep.

#30 Buster_Hymen

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:35 AM

A huge welcome to the lovely and talented Sharon Green, whose Ultimate Sailing joins On-The-Water Anarchy to show off their great line of calendars, awesome eco-friendly recycled shopping bags covered with great sailing shots, and a complete lineup of gift ideas for the racer in your life. We alsp want to welcome back previous sponsors Kattack, the always-reliable Latis Yachting Solutions, and the excellent Charleston Race Week, which will host the 32s as one of 2010 points events for the first time. And of course our biggest supporter is Point Loma Outfitting, who makes sure we look at least as good on the water as the top Italian teams - no mean feat.

We'll be giving away three pairs of shiney new Kaenon sunglasses, some Ultimate Sailing calendars, and more - so check out the Gold Cup Preview on Thursday's front page for more info and the links to all the action. Here's a thread in the mean time, you can check out last year's Gold Cup coverage here, and the 32 Worlds coverage here.

Gold Times!


You gonna ask Sharon to show her tits again?

#31 doghouse

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:05 PM

ISAF category police are having a field day. Four interviews on one boat.


There were some questionable ones on the crew lists for sure. I think Tac is right though, why the fuck are they waiting till NOW to do these?

#32 jsmin

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:13 PM

the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?
there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.
will be interesting for sure.

#33 SailDry

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:33 PM

the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?
there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.
will be interesting for sure.


Many of these guys on the list have already been interviewed this year already. I thought once you pass the litmus test it's good for two years? Maybe the owners or the pros onboard are spreading (mis)information to get things re-opened? Whatever the case, it creates another barrier to a declining sport. Golf and ski trips are fun too.

#34 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:44 PM

the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?
there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.
will be interesting for sure.

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

#35 doghouse

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:47 PM

the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?
there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.
will be interesting for sure.

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Yes.

#36 Step Up

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:09 PM

So is Dobbs it the Judge and Jury on the fate of these teams....?
If there is a formal review process which there is... what is the f'ing point of the interviews?

Should have left it like the M24 had a corinthian trophy that you can have all 1's to qualify for.

Every class that has sailor catagory limitations will always be exploited ... always has...

#37 doghouse

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:12 PM

I am having flashback's to the halcyon days of the 1D35 here...

#38 notallthere

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:16 PM

i vote for argo, delta and new wave

#39 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:18 PM

So is Dobbs it the Judge and Jury on the fate of these teams....?
If there is a formal review process which there is... what is the f'ing point of the interviews?

Should have left it like the M24 had a corinthian trophy that you can have all 1's to qualify for.

Every class that has sailor catagory limitations will always be exploited ... always has...

Dobbs is at least marginally in touch with reality. Hopefully it's him instead of Anthony LaDouche.

#40 Phoenix

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:56 PM

I think Dobbs is pretty reasonable. However, he's also brighter than the average guy. The top hat and tap shoes won't work very well with him.

#41 Jay G

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:12 PM

Is ISAF really that dim?


ISAF doesn't force classes to go to categories-don't they just provide the framework?
If there is any ?? about how it is being used isn't it the classes deal?

#42 Step Up

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:26 PM

Is ISAF really that dim?


ISAF doesn't force classes to go to categories-don't they just provide the framework?
If there is any ?? about how it is being used isn't it the classes deal?


Exactly why I said they should have followed the M24 rule... been working very well I think..

#43 RacerChaser

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:38 PM

What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!


The category thing continues to be one of the most backwardly implemented and enforced rules. Take the gloves off and let them sail, owners drive, and require 50% corinthian. Done.

Corinthians take no indirect or direct comp for sailing. Cars, vacations, "coaching", sail testing, 20k jibs dont count. Pre-screen them.

#44 Crew

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:01 PM

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Clean the class send notices out WAY in advance to the owners that there will be interviews.. The fact that ISAF rep comes in two days before hand is simple, that when the teams show up. How the hell else are they going to do it.
Regards,
Crew

#45 Crew

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:03 PM

Many of these guys on the list have already been interviewed this year already. I thought once you pass the litmus test it's good for two years? Maybe the owners or the pros onboard are spreading (mis)information to get things re-opened? Whatever the case, it creates another barrier to a declining sport. Golf and ski trips are fun too.

SailDry, I think the point is obvious, a number of these guys are being reviewed again says two things very clearly: 1) ISAF does not fully believe the competitor, and/or 2) These guys are being put on notice that when the ISAF Competitor rule changes in April these guys are going to be re-classified.
Cheers,
Crew

#46 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:15 PM

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Clean the class send notices out WAY in advance to the owners that there will be interviews.. The fact that ISAF rep comes in two days before hand is simple, that when the teams show up. How the hell else are they going to do it.
Regards,
Crew

The issue I have, crew, is that ISAF has a policy of ONLY doing face-to-face interviews for their classification inquiries, and even when requested, they will not come on an earlier weekend (practice, perhaps) or conduct fact-finding interviews over the phone, or Skype, or whatever. I think they want to see people squirm a little.

Considering that much of the decision making is subjective, and often by a fact finder who simply does not know the players, it's all a bit sketchy, and the process is expensive and reactionary. I'd like to see them do Skype interviews where possible, and reserve last-minute face-to-face interviews for those for whom questions still remain after the remote interviews.

The policing is definitely necessary - I don't argue with that at all - but it would be good to see some streamlining and logic brought to the process. And for fuck's sake, leave Bora and Curtis alone. They've both been through probably a dozen interviews already in the past three years. Despite the fact that some owners don't like it, the fucking code does not treat people whose family pays for them to sail as pros!

#47 beatyourskipper

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:18 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

#48 Phoenix

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:21 PM

If you got rid of all the coupon clippers in Europe there wouldn't be any big boat starts.

#49 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

#50 Shife

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:27 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.



Abuse of the system is rampant. There are people in this thread that lie to keep their Group 1.

I don't see how they could change the system to overcome the human ability to distort and lie to protect their own desires.

#51 Stiffler's Mom

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:36 PM

Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...

#52 beatyourskipper

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:29 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.


Unfortunately, I sail with several of the people in other classes and am not going to be "the asshole". I just know it would not be worth it for me to do it.

#53 Onrust1368

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:44 PM

Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...


if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...
I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...
sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -

#54 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:44 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.


Unfortunately, I sail with several of the people in other classes and am not going to be "the asshole". I just know it would not be worth it for me to do it.

Hence the onsite interviews; no one wants to be the asshole!

#55 Phoenix

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:48 PM

Clean,

Maybe you can enlighten me. why would a class permit only a limited number of pros. I would think an all or nothing approach would work much better. As for cost, once you have adopted three, what's the other three? There are $500 a day pros out there starving while amatuer scabs eat up their payday.

#56 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 11:51 PM

Clean,

Maybe you can enlighten me. why would a class permit only a limited number of pros. I would think an all or nothing approach would work much better. As for cost, once you have adopted three, what's the other three? There are $500 a day pros out there starving while amatuer scabs eat up their payday.

I think it is one part marketing tool that ISAF gave to influential builders, and one part actual cost containment. Many of the owners say that the rule does indeed work to keep their costs down and that they like it a lot, which means it is probably worth doing. But when we interviewed the tacticians at M32 Worlds, they almost unanimously say that the rule is administered very poorly and that the way it is written encourages creative accounting and outright lying. This post has the three-part Cocktail Hour we did with them, not sure which one focuses on the Cat Code, but it's all there. http://forums.sailin...p...t&p=2479491

#57 scowlover

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:54 AM

Read the rule, then explain how my initial classification is cat 2....and 12 months later...cat 2 with no change in my livelihood. Now I'm actually a 3 but haven't reclassified because I haven't sailed any "categorized" events since my career change.

#58 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:16 AM

The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.

#59 SailDry

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:01 AM

Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...


if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...
I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...
sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -


Amen to that. ISAF steps in only because the owners can't control their spending. Sounds like a lot of other sports. Maybe a salary cap for regattas would work better.

#60 InNeedOfSomeRestraint

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:49 AM

Read the rule, then explain how my initial classification is cat 2....and 12 months later...cat 2 with no change in my livelihood. Now I'm actually a 3 but haven't reclassified because I haven't sailed any "categorized" events since my career change.

Scowlover, you're based in Westport CT, do I know you?

#61 Jambalaya

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:09 AM

Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...


if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...
I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...
sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -


Are you paying the pro's wages/accomodation/travel ?

#62 Crew

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:22 AM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew

#63 ccogie beach

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:08 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew

Could there be anything more pathetic than a "real" cat 3, cheating to become a cat 1? It is like that movie 'The Ringer" where Johny Knoxville fakes being retarded so he can win the special Olympics. I hate the catagories, I think they are elitist and allow "rich kids" to stay cat 1's for far longer than they should. ISAF is saying "if momma and daddy can support you, then you can have all of the opportunities at the top level. If you are unlucky enough to have to sand boat bottoms to do what you love, you're not allowed. Limiting the "difference makers" on a boat has some merit for some classes. But let's face it, the consequences of this rule is that you eliminate a lot of working people that love the sport and replace them with liars and rich kids.

#64 jsmin

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:43 PM

popcorn ready - this is getting interesting

#65 SailDry

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:43 PM

The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.


Clean, how was the ISAF involvement in Europe for the M32 worlds? It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.

#66 doghouse

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:46 PM

The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.


Clean, how was the ISAF involvement in Europe for the M32 worlds? It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.


Not really a good thing.

#67 Jambalaya

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:46 PM

... It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.


WTF are you talking about ?

#68 SailDry

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:19 PM

... It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.


WTF are you talking about ?


They push the rules hard and there is nothing wrong with that. I respect their sailing and prep, just wondering if there is a political difference between venues.

#69 Stiffler's Mom

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:44 PM

How about a " in the ISAF interview live anarchy"? Come on Clean, you can get a camera in there somehow.

#70 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:53 PM

No comment for the moment...

#71 sailski

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:56 PM

No comment for the moment...



Is this a first!!!!!!!

#72 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:02 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

Bora Gulari
Jon Goldsberry
Marty Kullman
Johnny Lovell
Curtis Florence
Matt Noble
Alex Clegg
Philip Werheim
Chris Rast

#73 jeff carver

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:34 PM

you can get a camera in there somehow.

wire up poop

#74 beatyourskipper

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:43 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

Bora Gulari
Jon Goldsberry
Marty Kullman
Johnny Lovell
Curtis Florence
Matt Noble
Alex Clegg
Philip Werheim
Chris Rast


That list should be several names longer.

#75 Pete M

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:58 PM

are jon & matt old enough to be pros?

#76 Shife

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 06:07 PM

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

Bora Gulari
Jon Goldsberry
Marty Kullman
Johnny Lovell
Curtis Florence
Matt Noble
Alex Clegg
Philip Werheim
Chris Rast


It sucks that Bora has to keep going through this bullshit, but I can understand why. If you don't know the guy it's pretty hard to understand how he can live the life he does.

#77 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 06:11 PM

If you don't know the guy it's pretty hard to understand how he can live the life he does.

That would be true except for the fact that ISAF has a file on him, he has explained how his family supports his sailing in writing, and Dobbs has had this conversation with him before. Twice.

#78 J Buoy

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

If they've done this before is it a formality in some cases then?

#79 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 07:31 PM

No. It means someone has complained and potentially offered some new information. There was one case last year where a lawyer had his research assistant digging into Cat 1's histories to try and get them reclassified.

#80 Shife

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 07:45 PM

No. It means someone has complained and potentially offered some new information. There was one case last year where a lawyer had his research assistant digging into Cat 1's histories to try and get them reclassified.

How is that the fault of ISAF? So what if they have a case file on him and have interviewed him twice already. They are obliged to look into it, even if it is petty bullshit.

It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

#81 port tack

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 07:53 PM

It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.


Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:

#82 FINS

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:16 PM

It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.


Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:


And he dates some hot chicks... :D B) :D

#83 glexpress

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:20 PM

It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.



Yeah, I reckon he's going to be the subject of witch hunts for a while. I'm sure by now he's got a template for dealing with these situations and the more and more ISAF goes after him and the more he proves them wrong and the more ISAF looks the fool. But I guess that nothing new to anyone.

#84 port tack

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:47 PM

And he dates some hot chicks...


And I thought Tiger Woods was the luckiest MF on the planet! :blink:

#85 sailsandsales

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:43 PM

How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

Bora Gulari
Jon Goldsberry
Marty Kullman
Johnny Lovell
Curtis Florence
Matt Noble
Alex Clegg
Philip Werheim
Chris Rast


That list should be several names longer.


Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.

#86 Stiffler's Mom

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 10:28 PM

Got my popcorn. Let the games begin!

#87 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:06 AM

Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.

We'll try. Alex was very clear that he is an intensely private person when we asked last year. I don't think we even met him. But that list wasn't OUR interviews, it was ISAF's.

Let us know who else you'd like us to catch. We'll surely get Bora, and Bear, and Ullman, and Jonny G, and Matt N, and Johnny Lovell, and Ben Bardwell, and Molly and John Baxter, and Gavin Brady, and so on, and so on...

Post your questions here too.

#88 oldman

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:26 AM

anyone see Flippers name on the Ullman Sails Website?
Does that make him a sailmaker and a Cat 3

http://www.ullmansai...m/loft.aspx?q=1

#89 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:23 AM

Star Struck

With the end of a torn-down Medcup, no more LV racing for a while, and the dissolution of most of the AC teams, the amount of top-level talent available for events has mushroomed. And the chief beneficiary of that talent is the class that is charging ahead despite the economic slump: The Melges 32.

Twenty-three boats (3 up from '08) will be on the line in Fort Lauderdale, and the "tale of the tape" is as much about the pro, amateur, and "under review" crews as it is about the owners' ability to wrestle these powered-up weapons around the lumpy track off of Florida's Southeast coast. Here's our breakdown of the 2009 Gold Cup:

THE VETERANS

It's hard to look past Jeff Ecklund's Star for this one. Despite a poor showing in 2008 (5th), Jeff still is one of the best sportboat drivers around in big air, which this event should have plenty of. In a class of owner/drivers, Ecklund's at a very high level - his years at the tiller of a Melges 24 and numerous other top classes give him a leg up. Add to that some self-motivated pressure of that off-podium finish in 2008 at this, his home regatta, and his disappointment at not being able to sail the Sardinia Worlds, and you've got the recipe for someone with something to prove. With Harry Melges III on tactics, Scott Norris on trim, and Bora Gulari as the new kid aboard, Jeff is definitely a top 3 finisher. Working against him is the fact that he is Class President and really the founder of this event - but if he can stay focused, look for some pickle dishes for Star.

New Wave comes into the regatta as the defending champion, but with literally zero time in the boat in almost a year. Rustiness isn't much of an issue though - Alex Shaffer and Steve Liebel were both at Worlds, and this crew has sailed together for a decade, consistently showing the ability to step in anytime and go fast whether Marty or Mike are driving. A bigger issue is the rapid progression in tune and technique that many teams have made in the interim - and we're not sure New Wave has kept up. They've also lost ace tactician Scott Nixon this year, replacing him with Doug Fisher, no slouch but much quieter than Nixon. With no Bliksem here, this is the most Anarchist of the fleet, and a likely podium finisher.

Samba Pa Ti is amazingly also a veteran in this young fleet after just a year's racing. It's hard to believe it's been an ISAF class for less than a year, and a class at all only since 2007. But Kilroy walked in last year with T. Hutch on tactics and left with a third place, and this year he brings Scow legend Sam Rogers and Ericcson VOR vet Stu Bannatyne into the fray, along with great amateurs like Shana Phelan and Justin Smart. Will Sam be able to control Kilroy's temper the way Terry could? That may be the difference between top 5 and bottom 10.

Ninkasi is also an old program now, finishing 6th last year with Anthony Kotoun on tactics, same as this year. But they've added Andrew Campbell to the mix for 2009, and Campbell is at the top of his game right now. King's Point and Morning Light alum Jessie Fielding is aboard as well - lots of brains and talent aboard Ninkasi, the best name in the fleet; Ninkasi is the goddess of beer and owner Taylor is a Heineken distributor and supplies apres-race refreshments to the fleet. Nice.

The Barbarians are back as well, with a lot to prove after a miserable showing in Porto Cervo. And this time, they've got a good luck charm: OTW Anarchy staffer Andromache Mason is going to see if she can help our British pals keep their eye on the prize.


THE STACKED

There are a few teams that may not have a great winning history, but are completely loaded up with the best there is - ISAF interview dependant, that is.

Leenabarca is probably the most heavily loaded, with Speedboat owner Alex Jackson having proved he still knows how to drive last year with a 12th in his first-ever M32 race at this event last year. Jackson is a former collegiate star, and SA's own 'poop' - newly crowned J22 NA Champ Flipper Werheim - will talk him around the track. Jackson also has Northeast legend Steve Benjamin, Coach of the Year Mark Ivey, SF star Bill Erkelens, Canadian sailor of the year Curtis Florence, M32 World Champ crew Alex Clegg, and I-14 World Champ Matt Noble to make things happen quickly and right. If there aren't too many cooks in the kitchen, look for a top 5 from these guys.

Kip Meadows is one of our favorite owners here; the affable southerner is a blast to hang around with, though he's rarely seen the podium despite being in the class since almost the beginning. This time, his Roxanne is playing for keeps, with Andy Horton on tactics and kiwi VOR and AC vet Sean Clarkson, North Sails guru Dave Scott, and 18-foot skiffer Jonny Goldsberry making the rest happen.

Red owner Joe Woods is a hell of a driver, notching one or two bullets in the tough Porto Cervo worlds, but he's stepped it up too. Laser Gold Medalist Paul "Goody" Goodison is his tactician, and there are few smarter sailors on the planet. Dave Lenz and Shane Hughes round out the Cat 3 complement, and Joe's sailing 9 up again, though without the cute chicks we watched in Italy.

And the sole Italian entry - Lanfranco "Momo" Cirillo's Fantasticaa has her usual crew of DeDe Deluca, Mechele Paoletti, and Team Azzurra LC champ Stefano Rizzi aboard. Momo has about 9 race boats and a serious group of coaches making his accelerated program of becoming a racer happen - he never sailed before a few years ago. That didn't stop him from a lot of top ten finishes in Sardinia though - can he do the same here?

And finally, Argo can't be considered to be a stacked program, but their largely amateur effort got them a great result at worlds, with John Baxter proving he could hold his own against almost any tactician in the world, and Jason Carroll pulling off some sweet starting and smooth overtaking in almost every condition. Plus they've got the cutest and possibly most talented sailor chick in the fleet - and that counts for something. We think strategist Molly Baxter will put Argo on the podium...

THE NEWBIES

The sign of a healthy class is the new blood, and there's a lot of it here - and some of them might even win. Andy Lovell's Rougarou just won the Nationals in SF with brother and Tornado Olympian Johnny on tactics - not a huge accomplishment considering only four or five other competitors total, but definitely an announcement that the boys can roll in the breeze.

Amway Corporation icons and Michigan political family the Devos's have two boats here, with four family members aboard. Both boats have undergone extensive training up in Holland, MI, and the two-boat program is a full Quantum effort. Delta and Volpe will split Brian Janney, Skip Baxter, Scott Nixon, Mark Pinney, and Chris Rast between them. Consistency will be difficult, but speed is assured.

Two Swan 42 owners have bought into the class as well - no doubt due to the complete lack of any OD winter racing for the heavy NYYC lemons. They are Phil Lotz' Arethusa (with M24 World Champ Richard Clarke on tactics) and Malcolm Geftner's Celeritas. Both owner/drivers are going to have an awfully steep learning curve, but sneaky Celeritas has at least one secret weapon: M32 World Champ tactician Jeremy "Troll" Wilmot is aboard, though not listed as tactician...yet.

And finally, our pick for the highest-placed rookie in the fleet goes to Bob Hughes' Heartbreaker. Hughes' limited time in the boat is balanced out by his undoubted skill as a fleet racer, winning at the helm of his Farr 40, 1D35, and Melges 24 at events like Key West, SORC, and the Canada's Cup. When the breeze is on, Bob can roll with the best of them - he is ultra-fit and his reflexes are those of someone half his age. And he's got some talent with him: Port Huron bowman extraordinaire and Viper 640 owner (and NA Champ) Lee Shuckerow, M24 and Olympic 470 stud Steve Hunt (tactics), trimmer and speed guru Wally Cross, and M32 World Champ (and rig tune genius) George Peet. Heartbreaker shoud finish the event in the top 5, with a real chance of winning a race or two.

PODIUM PICKS

We'll go out on a limb and pick our top 5. They are: (5) Heartbreaker, (4) Rougarou, (3) New Wave, (2) Star, and (1) Red.

SAILS CALL

We're a bit unsure about the sail situation in the fleet right now. Despite having almost no presence in Europe, there are a LOT of Quantum teams here in the states, and remember that last year's champ wore a full suit of the angry green donut. Fantasticaa was rumored to be bringing over a new set of ONE sails for their upwind work, but we're not sure if they've been ironed out yet. And Ullman was rumored to be working on a set of Ullmans as well. Regardless of what actually shows, some diversity is essential to the health of the fleet, and we think we'll see the most sailmaker-diverse event yet for the Melges 32 class.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM

We'll have it all for you right here on SA: Live written commentary, starts, mark roundings, and finishes on video with just a few minutes' delay, near real-time photography from Mer, and dozens of interviews with the best in the world as well as the most interesting at the event, and daily reports - all in the Gold Cup OTWA forum. If you want to win Kaenon sunglasses, Ultimate Sailing calendars and gear, and get discounts on great gear from all our sponsors, you'll have to stay awhile.

We're also stoked to (finally) have live tracking of every minute of the racing on the SA Media page, courtesy of Kattack Live's brand new tracking solution.

And finally, we'll have our live talk show - the OTWA "Cocktail Hour" on Friday and Saturday afternoon. One day will be the top tacticians, and one day will be...well, we don't know yet! Tune in for more, or let us know what you want to see in the pre-event thread.

Our event is presented by OTWA apparel provider Point Loma Outfitting, who will be unveiling a new Atlantis On-The-Water Anarchy jacket for sale during our coverage. Ultimate Sailing is also on board for Gold Cup, and Latis Yachting Solutions, Charleston Race Week, and yacht broker MII Yacht Sales is new to the party as well, though MII honcho Ron McTighe was our awesome OTW driver last year during this event. He'll be back this year to get us right on top of the action...and under it. Yes, we'll be under the water once again, this time with a new camera, a new housing, and a new twist...




12/3/2009


#90 Sailor90

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 05:56 AM

Thatís one of the best write-ups to grace the front page of SA in awhile.

nice

#91 ILYA_Fan

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:39 PM

Outstanding write-up Clean. I agree with Sailor90 ^ and would go further to say that this represents your best work. THIS is one of the big reasons why I'm forever hooked on SA's OTWA, and I'll be looking to buy stuff from your advertisers to support your excellent reporting. I'm really looking forward to color commentary from Andy Burdick and the Melges European prez. I can't wait for the fun to begin! I'm a wannabe with no real connections to this fleet, but I live vicariously through your reporting and already know that I'll be able to imagine myself there.

This part made me chuckle... actually almost fell off my chair!

... and this year he brings Scow legend Sam Rogers and Ericcson VOR vet Stu Bannatyne into the fray, along with great amateurs like Shana Phelan and Justin Smart. Will Sam be able to control Kilroy's temper the way Terry could?


HAHAHA! If Kilroy has a temper, it should be highly entertaining to see him paired up with ol' Sammy. The guy is so famous for his nasty temper, he even has a new nickname. Did you hear about him getting body slammed in the bar this summer at Green Lake? :lol:

GO RASHID!

I have good money to contribute to a fund for putting a microphone on ol' Rashid for the event. DAMN I would love to hear the banter on that boat, especially when the chips are down. "You fuckers all SUCK! bla bla bla..." MWAHAHAHA! :lol:

#92 ILYA_Fan

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:50 PM

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.
Regards,
Crew


What are the chances that this stupid ISAF rule can be chucked? The M32's have a chance to be the ultimate freak show, where all of the top boats are stacked with the best talent money can buy.

I find it more entertaining to watch a battle between the very best out there, and I think the M32 class would be better served without this stupid rule. Just my 2cents, I could be wrong.... but wouldn't it be better if the boats who can afford pros added all the talent they can? Boats without huge budgets should still be able to compete, maybe not for podium but with a fleet this deep, a top 10 finish should be attainable and would be a great honor IMHO.

Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?

#93 JoeO

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:00 PM

Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?

Yes.

In both cases (M32, F40) the class (i.e., owners) have decided to (try) to limit pro participation (I say 'try" because we all know how well the classification system is working - e.g. "gardeners"). But if the owners wanted a "freak show", they would not have included ANY restrictions in the class rules. That is not the case. The restrictions are not imposed by ISAF. The ISAF classification system (flawed as it is) simply provides the means to enforce the restrictions.

#94 ILYA_Fan

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:06 PM

Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?

Yes.

In both cases (M32, F40) the class (i.e., owners) have decided to (try) to limit pro participation (I say 'try" because we all know how well the classification system is working - e.g. "gardeners"). But if the owners wanted a "freak show", they would not have included ANY restrictions in the class rules. That is not the case. The restrictions are not imposed by ISAF. The ISAF classification system (flawed as it is) simply provides the means to enforce the restrictions.


Thanks, I'm learning. I guess the owners' point of view makes sense... OTOH I'm just an armchair sailor for 9 months of the year, and yes, I do want a freak show. Regardless of the ISAF classification system, this regatta should fit the bill quite nicely!

I appreciate your response.

#95 SailDry

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:37 PM

Much to do about nothing. All interviewed cleared for racing in their respective ISAF categories. Until the next regatta.

#96 1sailor

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:49 PM

Thatís one of the best write-ups to grace the front page of SA in awhile.

nice



Dangerously close to professional journalism.

#97 SimonS

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 05:22 PM

Really well-written, thoughtful, analysis, Clean. Excellent. And I absolutely agree with your focus as expressed in your Front Page "Lessons Learned" on December 1. Please keep the posts coming fast and furious with positions at marks, who is going which way up the beats, which side is paying, what the breeze is doing etc. That makes the action seem close to home.

I suspect your picks will be way off the mark, but no more so than anyone else could come up with. I'll be watching the coverage with great interest...

#98 chickiesailor

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 07:36 PM

ummm isnt Larsen in this mix too?? He and Al Terhune are on the same boat. Team Shakedown...

#99 JoeO

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

I appreciate your response.

You're welcome.

#100 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 08:07 PM

Much to do about nothing. All interviewed cleared for racing in their respective ISAF categories. Until the next regatta.

Grapevine says Jonny G and Curtis may both be reclassified AFTER the event. Grapevine also said the M32 class requested it be that way. Not much transparency...which is why I hate this rule.

Thinking of having the top Cat 1s, including interviewees, on for Cocktail Hour...




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