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Member Since 08 Mar 2006
Online Last Active Today, 06:20 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: My newest project

Today, 06:15 PM

is there any other boat out there with a rudder that is raked so far forward.., that isn't directly behind another surface?


usually, forward raked rudders are attached to, and immediately behind, part of the keel.


i wonder if there could be any surprises in the way it behaves, arising from this arrangement.


probably it doesn't matter.., but is there another example of this geometry on a sailboat.


forward raked fins were not a huge success on windsurfers

I'd bet that hydrodynamically, forward rake or aft rake is the same...shouldn't matter to the water one way or the other.  Aircraft have looked at forward swept wings as a means to keep the outer wing panel from stalling at high angles of attack as the airflow tends to attach to the wing and travel in the direction of the sweep.  Problem with aircraft was keeping outer wing panel from flexing and inreasing the AOA out at the wingtip negating the effect of the forward sweep.


On a sailboat, forward sweep might keep the bottom of the rudder unstalled while the top is stalled, but not sure it'd be enough of an effect to be notable/prevent the boat from rounding up, etc.

In Topic: Dec 5 - WA State Ferry Hits Powerboat

Today, 02:43 PM

And at the moment, I am particularly curious about these "legal" details:

  • Does the "security and safety zone" modify (or even effectively nullify) the standard rules of the road?
  • Is the ferry somehow given the same "rights" as a ship in a TSS lane, even when not in such a declared lane?  If so under what circumstances?
  • Is the ferry always to be considered being in a "narrow channel" or otherwise restricted in its ability to maneuver?

I think I know the answers to these (the answer is "no"), but others here seem to have different opinions.


I'm not so much interested in how stupid and inconsiderate the pleasure boat driver was.  We can probably all agree that he violated at least a cubic yard of regulations, common sense, and courtesy, is lucky to be alive, and probably is largely responsible for significant damage to the ferryboat captain's career.  This is a shame, but it's also pretty obvious, and we don't need to belabor those points.


While I agree with most of your posts on the subject, the only one responsible for the damage to the ferry boat captain's career was the ferry boat captain.  If, what I've read is true, and he was not operating in a narrow channel and not constrained by draft to that channel, and/or not flying a day shape indicating he was restricted in his ability to maneuver, then he WAS the give way vessel. Regardless of what a moron the pleasure boat driver was, and regardless of the regulations the pleasure boat driver violated (really only 2 from my perspective; failure to keep a proper lookout and failure to maneuver to avoid an imminent collision).  The 100yd standoff zone does not give the ferry boat captain permission to operate his vessel without regard to the Inland Nav Rules.  Plus, his last minute maneuver, while certainly minimizing damage (and likely saving dumb guys life) did not manage to avoid the collision either, which means he waited to long or didn't maneuver aggressively enough.  I see no evidence in the video of any attempt to change course, just an attempt to slow/stop.


Again, I think the pleasure boat guy should have maneuvered much earlier to remove any risk of collision, thereby not making this a crossing situation that went wrong...that would have been the considerate, good seamanship thing to have done.  


In Topic: Donovan GP26 starts production in Turkey

Today, 04:06 AM



Is LUCY configured with a fat head or pin head main?
How are owners feeling about the lack of uniformity in the "Class"?
Weren't these boats intended to fit an ORC box rule?
So, what's happened?
The price of admission is a positive but potential buyers must be left wondering what the future holds

Yes, darling, the design was originally envisioned as a box-rule boat and as such some design limitations were imposed.  The box rule is poorly understood by the average sailor so box-rule fleets have not taken off here.  In the meantime owners race their boats under some handicap system and are free to modify their boats to extract more performance from them with the expectation or at least the possibility of changing them back to conform to class rules when and if a class develops.  Quotation marks?  Really?  Sales of the boat have not yet reached a critical mass where numbers justify forming a class, but they are getting there.  In the meantime present owners are having fun sailing them and are not too concerned what the future holds.  The design is not about what happened, it's a work in progress.

Safe to presume you are an owner, YD?
Where does Mr Donovan stand on what you call "a work in progress"?
And the Builder?
Owners are certainly at liberty to evolve the boat configurations to their liking as you suggest, but for those on the outside of the fleet it appears as though there may be little continuity from one boat to the next.
There are people racing more-costly boats who are interested in these boats for their "bang-for-the-buck" ROI, but are put off by the apparent inconsistencies.
So while you're off racing in whatever configuration you prefer, the marketability of the boat may be suffering.
It would seem that someone needs to determine how the boats will be Class-configured and soon.
Otherwise these neat little boats are likely to be unable to gain traction because potential owners don't know what next week might bring.
As it is, it would seem as though there may be some orphans, pin head or fat head, near term.
Not everyone is likely to be interested in reconfiguring the rig.


TBone, why must every boat be "Class-configured"? To have a successful OD class you need to sell hundreds of boats (a la the J/70) or at least lots of boats in one area (J/88).  But there is no reason a boat can't be successful as a raceboat and not race in a class/OD configuration.  What's wrong with optimizing a boat for what ever rule is in place were you want to race it...most of the sailing world can't support multiple OD fleets, they are lucky to have maybe one or two, and many have none.  

In Topic: My newest project

Today, 12:26 AM

^^^This was I was thinking it was too, though I never knew anyone had actually designed such a flaking system

Seems like slot of windage back there messing with the flow off the main

In Topic: Dec 5 - WA State Ferry Hits Powerboat

Yesterday, 07:52 PM

Yes, its Rule 8, Action to Avoid a Collision.


"Action to avoid collision should be taken well in advance of any potential meeting. Any course or speed change should be great enough to be obvious to any approaching vessel. Avoid a succession of small alterations of course."