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Member Since 25 Jun 2006
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In Topic: Ridiculous Mistake, Ridiculous Punishment

Yesterday, 10:37 PM

What many don't realize about OR's Herbie system - some deep background

Herbie's Automatic Inertial Guidance System

Herbie automatically knows where he is at all times. He knows this because he knows where he isn't. By subtracting where he is from where he isn't, or where he isn't from where he is (whichever is the greater), Herbie obtains a difference, or deviation.

His Inertial Reference System uses deviations to generate error signal commands which instruct USA 17 to move from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, arriving at a position where it wasn't, or now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position where it wasn't; thus, it follows logically that the position where it was is the position where it isn't. In the event that the position where USA 17 now is, is not the position where it wasn't, Herbie's Inertial Reference System has acquired a variation. Variations are caused by external factors, the discussions of which are beyond the scope of this report.

A variation is the difference between where USA 17 is and where the boat wasn't. If the variation is considered to be a factor of significant magnitude, a correction may be applied by Herbie, through the use of His autopilot system. However, use of this correction requires that USA 17 now knows where it was because the variation has modified some of the information which USA 17 has, so Herbie is sure where the boat isn't.

Nevertheless, Herbie is sure where USA 17 isn't (within reason) and it knows where it was. He now subtracts where it should be from where it isn't, where he ought to be from where the boat wasn't (or vice versa) and integrates the difference with the product of where he shouldn't be and where the boat was; thus obtaining the difference between its deviation and its variation, which is variable constant called "error".



This is one of the few spy photos of an actual " herbie " .


Some people mistakenly assumed it to be a flux capacitor :) 



In Topic: Ridiculous Mistake, Ridiculous Punishment

Yesterday, 09:47 PM

I don't think perjury actually applies to the ij hearing.


Are isaf hearing witnesses actually sworn?


As most yachting related hearings are all testimony, no physical evidence, the role of the judge is to determine the facts based on spoken word. Credibility is the primary tool used to find facts.

As in backing up testimony with multiple collaborating witnesses.


Multiple witnesses from the same team, with wildly different stories make fact finding difficult.


Seems that is the problem the acij had with this.


Funny thing was that rc kind of fell on the sword, and then was not fully backed up by testimony from members of his own team.


There was testimony about evidence that was never physically seen by the ij.


There were statements written that were not backed up by testimony, from the statement's authors.


The ij, and review boards, was/is overwhelmed by issues. Hard to know what is smoke, and what are mirrors.


...and when the herbie issue came up, the ij was already exhausted, and frustrated. Had already made the decision that the regatta would go forward, no matter what, and made no real attempt to learn if herbie was legal, or not.


Could the herbie (non)decision also be reviewed?


So your saying that a well respected and seasoned Ij couldn't handle it ?


I disagree as even after having several lovely nights of sleep they still said had there been a protest by ET it would have been disallowed. 


Couple that with the fact that Grumpy who is certainly not adverse to throwing the flag never even bothered. If he knew it was legal why would anyone care if you don't ?


After everything that has been analyzed and commented on over the past few months I find it amazing that anyone would even utter the " H " word and not feel like a complete nutter. 

In Topic: News from SF Embarcadero...

21 April 2014 - 09:15 PM




Fly all over the world following AC events and you may get some too. May even improve your sad attitude.

Am at the moment wearing an Alinghi cap, also have syndicate gear from probably a dozen other teams.

Get fucked ;)


And just when I was about to step in and defend you  :wub:


You lead a pretty sad life, but so do most psychotics. 


Seen jizz face lately ? :)


Stay classy Anarchists....


Well played " Ron " :) 

In Topic: AC35 Protocol expected this week

21 April 2014 - 09:14 PM

If it gets too much of a squeeze to get things rolling for 2017 is there any reason they could not push it to 2018 ?

In Topic: Ridiculous Mistake, Ridiculous Punishment

21 April 2014 - 09:10 PM


Peter and Stingray,
1. OR cheated (in 5 ways that the IJ uncovered, perhaps more they did not uncover)
2. They suborned Jr. members of the team to do the cheating
3. They then tried to cover up at least part of it (removing lead from at least one king post)
4. They (the team as a whole) then stonewalled and did not admit who was involved in directing or doing part of the cheating (the spigots and spacers). So the IJ was not able to determine all who were involved in the cheating.
5. Then at least one OR lied to the IJ.
Not a single part of that is defend-able.  All 5 steps together is totally and completely unacceptable. And it is further even worst that these are 'the role models' of the sport.  They very clearly damaged the integrity and reputation of the sport.  And trying now to reduce ISAF's oversight is exactly the wrong reaction, one of spoiled brats who are simply used to getting their own way and writing their own rules.
And those of you who are trying to 'minimize' this incident are doing the sport no favor.  You are suggesting to other sailors that some level of cheating/iying/stonewalling is 'not so bad'.

It is inconceivable that the 5 known steps were able to go as lightly punished as they did without collaboration instigated by OR with the IJ.
The IJ investigators chose to turn a blind eye to the actions of many of OTUSA staffers while collateral was put up as sacrifice.  This follows the established culture of changing whatever rules and circumstances to suit the requirements of OTUSA
If the personnel that were truly involved in this scandal were brought to account, OTUSA would not have made it to the start box.
The culture at OTUSA stinks, and by association the IJ, if it doesnt why then the secrecy.
OTUSA went into damage control and colluded with team members, some, it would appear without their knowledge, and it has to be said the IJ.  The apple never falls from the tree - puppet master - any ideas ?
As Jean Paul says "le bouc emissaries 
At long last there appears to be an emerging (in this forum) acceptance/acknowledgement  that cheating is not acceptable , no matter how small, in any form in our sport.  That said there still remains some boneheads that appear to be OK with it
Its always about money at the end of the day, isnt it ? 
Team Oracle - bad attitude? IMO their actions are a fine example for any youth in any sport: Hopelessly down 8 to 1 the entire team coalesced and succeeded in one of the most dramatic sporting victories of our time.

And, uh, the cheaters got let off the hook? Not according to the title of this thread. An individual suspected of "hiding something", an expression of guilt, has had their career destroyed. True also for the team: hide something, get penalized.

Justice was handed down by an independent and respected jury.

The same jury saw fit to excuse anyone who came clean.



Very much agree. The jury decision only made the " greatest come back in sports history " that much more dramatic .


I would say 50% of the people in the world still talking about the " cheating scandal  " are on this thread :)