M.McCauley

Many of us agree that the two DoG Maxis facing off for king of the sailing world is closer to the intent of the deed than the regatta format the AC has become.

Most of sailing is sport, the AC is drama and entertainment in sailboats.

Think you are confused, if the AC is not about sailing as a sport then why would the winner of a DoG become 'king of the sailing world', in your world surely the winner would be 'king of drama and entertainment in sailboats'

please post things that represent what sailing is all about...

i550

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=k_FKI10sb4A

If you don't like the AC, then go to the other forums.

The AC isn't over - it's just not what you want it to be, which seems to be a way for you to make money, which you probably aren't doing in the AC world right now.

Houstie mate you are a fucking dickhead too...

No mate , I absolutely love the Americas cup you fucking idiot.. i want it back

this court case is bullshit...!

there are more sailors in the world who want to see a fair AC than Lazzer and Ernie mate...!

totally agree with you mate, this forum's getting cluttered up with people like Hough implying that AC sailors are just the hired help and Huston slagging anyone who wants to get sailing as in it for the money, cheap comeback from someone who would clearly rather see the AC destroyed rather than not as he wants it to be

Wow ... when you consider that the AC and regular sailing have very little in common, is it not a bit of a stretch to think that the lunatic fringe of sailing (the AC) can bring the whole sport down?

I agree with you in that real sailing should try to distance themselves from the AC. The AC is not what most of us aspire to, the AC was conceived as race between boats that the owners could wager on, like horse racing, the rest of sailing is focused on sportsmanship and may the better sailor win.

Real sailing = competition between sailors.

The AC = Racing between boats, the sailors are more like jockeys. When horse races are run the jockey doe not get equal credit with the horse. The name of the jockey might affect the odds on the race, but the race is between the horses, not the jockeys.

Maybe killing the Cup is doing sailing a favour? It was created by gamblers that chose sailboats instead of horses to bet on. Sailors were hired, just like jockeys. Is that what you think our sport is about?

Am confused, you're a pretty prolific poster on this forum but seem to think that killing the Cup might be doing sailing a favor and suggest the Cup is not what 'our' sport is about. Is sailing 'your sport' if it is then why all the posts concerning the court actions? why read and try to interpret so many of the associated documents? You say that the AC is not what most of 'us' aspire to, and that those in real sailing should try and distance themselves from the AC. Can you clarify your postion, are you someone unconcerned with 'real sailing' and you get your kicks out of gambling on sailboats or do you want to align yourself with real sailors, you mention 'our sport' and 'not what most of 'us' aspire to', I assume that it's the former

No, it is right, like it or not. The court decided how to resolve this and it went to the highest level of appeals. Came down 6-0, unanimous. I'm not arguing it is the best possible court order; but then it is almost impossible to resolve it perfectly, given the way the Deed is written. As you say, the court cannot rewrite it themselves and so they just govern it best they can, with their authority to do so. And - yes - they can force EB to obey the order, that is what the system is all about!

Can you find another court order that forces a trustee to violate their own trust? I cannot. This is a new and dangerous precedent.

It is as if the court knows that you cannot drink until you are 21 and you cannot drive under the influence, then orders a 17 yr old to have a beer and drive home.

It makes no sense and more than one person thought the last minute change in the appellate division ruling was to avoid the date/venue issue that Cahn's ruling created.

Bad analogy RH, one is a trust document, the other is a law.

I don't think the terms of a trust can require illegal action on the part of the trustee or the beneficiaries. I also don't think that the the court can ignore the clear wording of a legal trust. In that sense, the terms of a trust are law that applies to the subset of the population that is either beneficiary or trustee.

I'm not saying there has not been a precedent where a court oder has violated the express terms of a legal trust, only that I cannot find one. It makes sense to me that the court should consider any ruling and insure that enforcing that ruling does not create new grounds for litigation.

GGYC raised the point at the appellate division level and I was quite amazed that the CoA did not take the precautionary step of making sure that the date of their ruling would result in a deed compliant match even if the two sides could not come to mutual agreement.

M.Mc:
The AC does NOT need sponsors, if anything the sponsors have used the AC to promote themselves. Investing your own money in pursuit of a sailing trophy is exactly what the AC is about. It hasn't been of late, but that is what it should be.

The winner of the Cup Match using the boats that the deed intended will be in the position of telling the world: "If you want the Cup you had better be ready to play hardball. If you can't design or afford a boat that is faster than the one we used to win the Cup, don't even call. If we think you might have a chance, we'll take what we learned with this boat and build a faster one. If you want the prize, you must be ready to play the game. Bring it on."

*If* no one wants to play, and *if* the defender wants to have a race, they can, by mutual agreement race for the Cup on other terms, but they retain the position of power, they have a DoG Maxi and you Mr Challenger probably do not, so you race on our terms or build a fast boat.

So you're saying that the point of the Cup is for billionaires to pitch themselves against each other, it's good to see you reveal your true colours, it's not about the sailing competition but who can afford to buy the best sailing, design and build teams, GREAT why don't you just get a few billionaires together ask them to bring their bank statements (and maybe their lawyers just for good measure) and then declare the richest the winner?

I think that many people here are making informed and valid points, however are we losing sight of the big picture, the Cup needs sponsors, after today (which must very nearly be the last straw for them) many will start to melt away. Would you invest your own money in the Cup, dogged as it is with law suits and delays, even more so during a world wide economic crisis, why should they?

Sponsors are not interested in detailed analysis of DoG terms, nor a Cup that is a two Boat race, (fun for some of the sailing journalists, you know who you are) but not great really for the future of the AC.

From now the sponsors will become alienated unless by some miracle the two sides can get together and indicate when the 34th AC might be and some idea about protocol. It now really begins to cease to matter who is in the right or wrong, the Cup, for the forseeable and long term future is completely f**ked.

Whoever wins the DoG match is quite likely to find themselves with no one to play with in a subsequent Cup.