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rule69

Member Since 11 Nov 2009
Offline Last Active Today, 08:11 AM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Liberty US 40

27 July 2014 - 07:18 PM

 

 


 

That was the main question of the keel, it drew 9' in measurement trim but could not sail in 9' of water, as articulated by DC in his book. Tony Watts and his team decided that was how the boat is measured, not as it is sailing.


But they didn't measure the static load water line. They measured a line parallel and above it. In effect the rule added something to the LWL to take into account expected dynamic changes while still encouraging some overhang. There was no consideration in the rule for boats with winged keels.

 

There was nothing in the rule about a separate rudder at the stern and a small trim tab left on the keel either, or the reason partialy due to the keels getting smaller and the loss of contol with the rudder so far forward and too small to be effective, or twin rudders fore and aft with a fin and bulb for a keel. There were a number of tweaks made to the rule, like the freeboard adjustment that hurt Freedom when she was altered. There was a draft penalty, like the other penalties in the measurements, and the NYYC chose that argument for thier protest.

 

So?

 

My point was that the keel was a novelty and therefore not at all like overhangs in terms of the rule.

 

I think your initial point was that overhangs were sneaky so a wing keel was a similar loop hole eg:

 

Did you ever wonder why all the old racing yachts had those long, graceful overhangs? Not for looking pretty in the pictures. Talk to Captain Nat, he can explain..............................

 

Answer for 12m yachts: because since it's inception the rule virtually required them. They were well understood and the rule measured them in a manner that took sailing dynamics into account. There's no mystery here and no need to ask Cpn. Nat anything. Incidentally, aesthetics did play a role here.

 

Your next point seems to be that because sailing length is likely longer than LWL that a keel span that is longer than measured is a similar issued. Of course, the rule doesn't measure LWL as such. The length that the rule uses is quite close to the dynamic water line length. The rule has no correction for a keel span that increases with heel.

 

I'm not sure what your last point is. Maybe that because there have been other inventions in the class the keel shouldn't have gotten protested? That just seems silly so I must be missing your point.

 

At any rate, the justification for the keel's legality "because overhangs" seems weak to me. Just to be clear, I've got no problem at all with the keel measuring in. I don't think that overhangs had any relevance to the question.


In Topic: Liberty US 40

27 July 2014 - 04:45 AM

 

 

 

There are measurement points in the rule and designers would work around those points for optimum effect, as in the knuckle bow vs the old swept bow curve. Same with the sterns. Overall in the later stages they were trying to make the water think the boat was longer than it really was, not just picking-up waterline when heeled.

Sure, "Mariner" and all. Nothing new in trying to build a boat that's faster than it rates. It's pretty much the game. But, I think the wings were substantially more difficult to understand in terms of the rules because they were so different. I think overhangs are particularly poor example of working the rules though as the rule makers encouraged overhangs as part of the type they were looking for.

 

That was the main question of the keel, it drew 9' in measurement trim but could not sail in 9' of water, as articulated by DC in his book. Tony Watts and his team decided that was how the boat is measured, not as it is sailing.


But they didn't measure the static load water line. They measured a line parallel and above it. In effect the rule added something to the LWL to take into account expected dynamic changes while still encouraging some overhang. There was no consideration in the rule for boats with winged keels.


In Topic: Splicing and Sleeving an Aluminum Mast

27 July 2014 - 02:45 AM

There are a lot of similar masts on the 28 ft Bequia built double enders. They build their masts from any bits and pieces thay can find. Joining is always by welding

 

Here is the most recently completed boat with rig and another powered up and racing.

 

Yes plug welding is the right way to go.

Why? Serous question. It seems a plug weld would be similar to a rivet but way harder to do in right in AL. Maybe not even practical in some alloys. And you're still looking at a sleeve. So, what's the upside?


In Topic: Liberty US 40

27 July 2014 - 02:38 AM

 

 

 

It was a bollox complaint by the Seppos; the only way that it would have had any validity was if Liberty didn't have overhangs.

Must have cheered Bondy up no end, though, knowing that he had got that far under the Seppos' skin.

 

I'm not following what Liberty's overhangs had anything to do with.

 

Did you ever wonder why all the old racing yachts had those long, graceful overhangs? Not for looking pretty in the pictures. Talk to Captain Nat, he can explain..............................

I don't think that's a good comparison. The rule was type forming on overhangs by intent and evolution. Wings were not considered in the rules. Wings were a novelty and it was reasonable to question how they were to be measured.

 

There are measurement points in the rule and designers would work around those points for optimum effect, as in the knuckle bow vs the old swept bow curve. Same with the sterns. Overall in the later stages they were trying to make the water think the boat was longer than it really was, not just picking-up waterline when heeled.

Sure, "Mariner" and all. Nothing new in trying to build a boat that's faster than it rates. It's pretty much the game. But, I think the wings were substantially more difficult to understand in terms of the rules because they were so different. I think overhangs are particularly poor example of working the rules though as the rule makers encouraged overhangs as part of the type they were looking for.


In Topic: Liberty US 40

27 July 2014 - 02:30 AM

The way I see it, NYYC should've fought, (and did) the wing keel. More importantly, the Aussies worked a loop hole, won fair and square, and made the cup fun again.

Yup, that sounds right. The keel was sui generis unlike like overhangs which were well understood in the rules. So, it was subject to challenge. Well done that it measured.