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Member Since 27 Mar 2011
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 04:29 PM

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In Topic: What boat would you design to meet this brief

04 March 2014 - 05:37 PM


The boat you are after is very close to the same boat I would be after today if I was in the market.

My intern right now, Will, is doing a custom 26'er for me. We'll post the results of his work in a week.


I look forward to checking that one out.  I'm also a fan of 27-30' boats for cruising.


Jackett: It doesn't meet the offshore requirements of your list, but the interior layout of my Pearson 28-2 (same layout is found on a Bene First 285 and some other boats) is very functional for a boat this length.  You get two double beds at opposite ends of the boat (V-berth and double quarterberth) without anyone sleeping on the table, and the galley is a decent size.  The trick is pushing the head aft and the table forward to put the head and galley at the widest part of the boat.  I also hate moving furniture around at the start and end of every day.  The settees are also comfortable enough to sleep on, should both kids not want to share the v-berth.  I've spent a week onboard with 3 adults and it's been pretty comfortable, but haven't done it with 4.  A downside to this design is that getting a double quarterberth under the cockpit requires a bit more freeboard than I'd like.


How much vertical room do you have between the aft berth and the underside of the cockpit sole? Is it enough for the person sleeping on the inside to sleep on their side without their shoulders getting jammed? Its close to my ideal layout for slightly larger boats, but on the design I'm working on I just can't seem to get enough room, while maintaining a deep enough cockpit to feel comfortable at sea, without the headroom getting silly.


I've played around with a transverse berth, on the basis that a bit less vertical clearance over your hips is better than not much vertical clearance over the head and shoulders of the person sleeping on the inside. But of course, that pushes the waterline beam towards being wider to get a long enough berth, which I'm not keen on.


May well end up with your layout, but reduce the aft cabin to a single berth to allow the cockpit to be deeper, and accept that with 4 on board, one person has to sleep on the settee berths. I do like having all the 'wet' areas that get accessed regularly at sea (head, galley, chart table and oilskin locker) handy for the companionway, and keep the rest dry. However, I've ended up currently with a more traditional layout of galley and chart table aft, heads between the main cabin and forecabin, in order to push the saloon aft to the wider part of the boat where there's more room - that way the settees, which also form the sea berths, can be parallel with the centreline, which works better. But I am very tempted by your layout, if only I could get enough headroom over the aft berth.

In Topic: What boat would you design to meet this brief

04 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Something like this: only smaller, sailed with Lombard on it (his personal boat), perfect for me :)



The RM 880 (Not currently in production - about to be replaced with an RM 890) comes very close for me as well. I especially like the almost 'pilot house' style cabins structures, which give a great view out from down below. My one reservation is the beam - 10'8'' on a 28 foot hull. On light boats especially, I prefer them to be narrower than that. I find it gives a much more comfortable motion - particularly important as I suffer mildly from sea sickness. 


How did you find the performance of the high aspect bilge keels plus a single rudder on what is a very wide stern? The bilge keels seem a sensible solution for cruising, but I can't seem to shake my bias against bilge keels. And the single rudder on a wide stern just seems to be asking for difficult sailing in gusty conditions, unless you have someone sitting on the mainsheet traveller at all times.

In Topic: What boat would you design to meet this brief

04 March 2014 - 04:13 PM



$67k floating and fully outfitted?


Hull, rig, small engine. 


Not including sails, electrics and 'removable' items. No accurate allowance for expendables - just a budget allowance that is probably too low. 


Probably forgotten a lot, but does pro-rata up from what a friend spent building a 22 footer.

In Topic: What boat would you design to meet this brief

04 March 2014 - 04:06 PM

How about rebuilding an Albin Vega instead. Tough old boats, Google Berserk for the stories about a crazy Norwegian that took it far north and south.


Hey, that was my idea. Well, not to rebuild an old one, but to use the Vega as a starting point. Another boat from the same era that's a proof of feasibility is the Tartan 27. Dylan is going to give it a shot with a Centaur. 


I think one of the questions with small cruising boats is whether someone is going to be sleeping on the dining room table (or otherwise making it unusable for anyone else). If I were starting with a clean sheet of paper, I would hold out for enough sleeping space that it wasn't necessary. 


I would erase the length limit from your spec, too. As boats have gotten lighter, they've gotten longer for the same carrying capacity. 


There are lots of existing designs to steal ideas from. Buy and  read " Yacht Design according to Perry". The reason he thinks he can do it in his sleep is that he has had lots of practice. 


Got the book and many others. Been drawing boats for fun since I was in shorts.


Don't want to go longer. While in an ideal world I'd have a long, light boat, and while this design is a dream, I'm still trying to work towards a brief that reflects the reality of my life. Living on the South coast of the UK (Solent) the mooring fees for even a small boat represents a big chunk of the family income. The dream of retiring early means saving money, which means running the smallest boat practical. Plus I like small boats. It amuses me to tie up alongside a boat twice the length of mine when cruising, and discover that we've sailed twice as far as they have for a fraction of the cost. Petty, I know.

In Topic: What boat would you design to meet this brief

04 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

How about rebuilding an Albin Vega instead. Tough old boats, Google Berserk for the stories about a crazy Norwegian that took it far north and south.


I probably will end up renovating and modifying an old boat. Its what I did with my last two boats. Elizabethan 30 is top of the list just now. But this is an exercise in dreaming, and designing the 'perfect' (or at least, the least compromised) boat.