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Wicked One

Member Since 04 May 2011
Offline Last Active Jun 09 2016 12:25 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: ORC Rule

04 September 2014 - 01:14 AM

Thank you all for replying.

The question stems from us thinking about buying a one off light water ballasted boat that was never designed to any rule. Its rating under IRC and ORCi is very high for anything except downwind in breeze. (ie it has never sailed to its rating except for downwind ocean racing.)

So the boat will not compete with irc designed boats which is fine.

Could the ORCi rating and vpps be used as a rough guide to the boats potential or are they often wrong due to programming glitches.

An example is at 120 degrees in 20 knots it should be doing 16.6 kn which is pretty fast for a small keel boat. This would seem optimistic to me and faster than most boats. 

It appears that ORCi is tough on water ballast and canting keels.

IMHO (unashamedly as another "knucklehead online"), I think your decision on buying this boat should not be driven by relative merits of rating rules, accuracy of VPP's etc. Comes down to what you are seeking from your sailing:  if your focus is to go fast around the track and generally have a blast on the water beating larger boats over the line, with perhaps with a casual interest on results based on performance handicap, then this may be boat for you - but don't complain in the bar later about how it doesn't rate on a measurement rating system!.  If your focus is to have a decent chance of winning races on a measurement rating basis, then whether its IRC, ORCi or any other measurement rating system, you probably should look at another type of boat. This is from some experience... over the years I have gone from owning/sailing on boats with an IOR-focus to a go-fast, performance-based boat during the IOR ->IMS days, and more recently back into boats with an IRC focus. Had fun on them all.

In Topic: Bart's Bash

03 September 2014 - 12:44 PM

Wot... no replies?

We are aiming to be in, via the Sandringham YC event that is linked into the cause...  

In Topic: Using peoples real names

03 September 2014 - 12:34 PM

"..... I'm Brian.... and so's my wife!" 

In Topic: ORC Rule

03 September 2014 - 12:11 PM

FWIW, ORC and IRC are the only two international handicap rating systems recognized by ISAF.

As far as I know, IRC is pretty secretive, whereas ORC is open to anyone.
Want to optimize your boat? Register at their Sailor Services and start fiddling. Printing a test certificate is around 10 Euros. Data on other boats are freely available. Can one ask for more?

As much as I hate any handicap system, at least this one looks to be based on science.

ORC is a derivative of IMS.  It is a VPP based rule so seemingly scientific but you can have good VPPs and you can have bad ones - most VPPs are somewhat typeforming - as is ORC.  Its predecessor, IMS, typeformed boats into ugly and unseaworthy slab sided monsters with weight in the bilge and wooden keels - highly undesirable.  I do think ORCi is a bit better than IMS but the rule has not yet seen any real designer pressure - might very well turn out that it is also highly typeforming and promoting undesirable traits.  Being public just means it is easier to find the "loop holes".  IRC is secret and thus not quite as easy to game and is also continuously updated to take away undesirable traits that come up.  That being said, I think that IRC (and also ORCi) unduly penalizes sportboats in the smaller size range while allowing bigger sportyachts (over 50 feet) to rate fairly with the exact same parameters.  Several races have been dual scored using IRC and ORC and show surprisingly little difference in the race outcomes.

+1 to comments above.  Yet to see anything that convinces me that ORCi has overcome the IMS issues that caused its demise, and that ORCi offers anything "fairer" than IRC.  

In Topic: prop anti fouling paint

03 September 2014 - 11:50 AM


The OP, "not for nothing 2", asked if anybody has tried VELOX for props etc.


Nobody replied about using Velox, just the usual shit fights.


I had Propspeed applied 24 months ago, new SS prop with SS shaft.  After 12 months diver reported prop was covered in weed.

Got him to remove the weed, guess he may have disturbed the Propspeed finish.


Hauled out yesterday, prop and shaft are coated in small barnicles, maybe a 4mm thick coating.


While cleaning the boat in the yard today, I was approached by a guy who sells and applies Velox.

Asked if I wanted to try it this time.

Told of great reports by locals who use it and some pro boats in WA.


So does anyone have Velox feed back?



Not sure what you finally went with on this one, but we use Velox on the sail drive of our First 40 Wicked at Sandringham YC.  Very happy with the product. First application lasted us just over 24 months before we had to re-apply, with just a minor wipe down by a diver every so often. Re-applied on the last scrub, which is around 12 months ago and its still going strong. We plan to stick with the product as its cheaper than the alternatives and from our experience works better. 

What did you end up with, and how is it going?