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Posts posted by Raptorsailor

  1. 10 minutes ago, weta27 said:

    Wow, 13 pages, a frenzy of outraged indignation over something that hasn't even been decided yet?

    This must set some new kind of SA record??!

    (... probably not :wacko:)

    This is AC silly season. Nothing concrete will happen for another year/18 months. We have to find something to complain about. 

  2. Never been to a music concert. Don’t like them, but Le Bourget 2013 definitely stands head and shoulders above the rest. I saw an A380 go vertical. An Su-35S deafen me, Rafale, P-38. Super Constellation. All sorts. It was fucking awesome. 

  3. 5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

    Just read the various threads I would suggest. That will enlighten you!

    No need for a Ben Basher thread, methinks.


    We only do Dean Barker bashing over here. 

    • Like 2
  4. Well. We almost got to the Cup.

    I think the debrief is going to be particularly harsh as it’s hard to see where they made big ass mistakes. Sure they had a slow boat but what were the fundamental mistakes that led them to making a slow boat? It’s hard to see them. 

    • Like 1
  5. 20 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

    Sorry Brits but Britannia's sail is 10% worse than LR's.  Sir Ben's solid boom, and inability to shape the wing for down low power is a huge difference.  Several things make up some for this but less than 10knots they are not competitive and above their ability to do crisp tacks/gybes comes down to lack of ability to control the twin skin.

    It is not too late for them to get this right it is maybe nearly impossible, that's all.  IMHO.

    I’m pretty sure they can sail with a deeper main. What surprised me the most is LR were NOT easing the main out of a tack/gybe and UK was. That’s really weird, and I bet there’s some pretty nice gains to be made from changing that. 

  6. Compared to Lr, Ben’s main looked flat as fuck. It looked flat even compared tk what they were running in the round robins. Also LR were pointing slightly closer to the wind and weren’t losing ANY distance in tacks/gybes. 

    I think UK boat handling was worse than team handbag by a considerable amount in AC terms. 

    • Like 1
  7. 5 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

    What is NYSC?  

    If you mean NYYC, I do not believe that they are a governing body of AC.  The winner of the trophy becomes the trustee and must comply with the deed. The deed is governed by NY law.  The deed allows challenger and defender to agree to their own terms with certain restrictions.

    It is very rare for the AC challenger and defender to fail to reach terms and have to revert to a DOG match

    The deed has been amended a couple of times by New York Court.  But I dont think NYYC has the power to unilaterally amend the deed. In short.....live or die by the sword.

    NYSC: New York Supreme Court. 

  8. 11 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

    The article is a bit better than the title, with some snippets of interest.  Sorry all, it's a bit long:

    ‘America’s Cup should become the Formula One of sailing’

    Sir Jim Ratcliffe is not entirely sure what he said to Ben Ainslie when he stepped aboard his America’s Cup boat in the Hauraki Gulf in the aftermath of a spectacular victory. “But it definitely began with an ‘F’,” Ratcliffe says.

    That “f***ing well done” was an exclamation of congratulation, admiration and exhilaration from the petrochemicals billionaire who had just watched Ainslie steer Britannia to a win that required “experience, nerve and balls of steel” to flash across his Luna Rossa rival as the boats flew downwind at more than 50mph.

    “Just about the limit of what my heart can cope with,” Ratcliffe says. “The lead changed nine times. That cross was very ballsy, and extremely difficult. You have to have a lot of experience and a very good eye to predict that accurately. It was plus or minus five metres, and when you have two boats doing 45 knots . . .”

    Ratcliffe is in awe of these 75ft yachts, skimming above the sea in Auckland with the top of the mast 28 metres above the water. “A boat the height of a ten-storey building sailing on a foil the size of a coffee table at nearly 100km/h, it’s pretty extraordinary without hurting anybody,” he says.

    “You get no sense on television how big these boats are. It’s only when you are on one you get a sense of how enormous. Six tonnes, that’s like a big lorry. It’s a lot of energy.”


    The engineer in him recalls school days studying kinetic energy. “From my O-levels, velocity is the square function so it is four times the speed of the old America’s Cup boats of ten knots but 16 times the energy,” he says. “So when they crash, there’s going to be fallout.”

    The idea of a collision is terrifying, which made Ainslie’s nerve and seamanship all the more impressive to seal the win that has carried Team Ineos UK into the final of the America’s Cup challenger selection series, when they will face the Italians in the best-of-13 contest starting next Saturday.

    This was not just about the fastest boat but high-class sailing; communication to the team, reading the shifting winds, measuring the gap. “It’s a really fine art,” Ratcliffe says. “It’s the sort of spatial awareness that Lewis Hamilton has, knowing the latest point you can brake.”

    The comparison with Formula One is very deliberate, not least because Ineos bought one third of the Mercedes team in December as part of an expanding sporting empire which serves the dual purpose of pushing the company name to an international audience (Ratcliffe no longer wants to joke that the company he built with two friends, with an estimated $60 billion in annual sales, is the biggest in the world that you had never heard of) while providing sporting competition and kicks to a man who can certainly afford them.



    Ratcliffe mentions that a Portuguese football club could be next on the Ineos shopping list to add to ownership of OGC Nice, Lausanne Sport and Racing Club Abidjan from the Ivory Coast, plus the successful cycling team and the growing influence in motorsport.

    Any more? “The stress of the America’s Cup is quite sufficient at the moment,” he says, though it seems very much the sort of stress Ratcliffe enjoys after coming on shore from his superyacht moored in Auckland, where he was able to serve his quarantine for New Zealand, after sailing over from French Polynesia.

    His experience of funding and now watching America’s Cup racing has left him thrilled and wanting more — provided modifications are made to one of sport’s oldest and most arcane competitions.

    “The America’s Cup needs to be at the pinnacle of yacht racing, the most exciting yacht racing on the planet, like Formula One is for motor racing,” he says. For that, Ratcliffe believes the boats must stay on foils despite a preference among some Americans to return to keel boats.

    “For the modern generation, watching big displacement yachts at 12, 13 knots is like watching paint dry,” Ratcliffe says. “Everyone is on foils these days, kite surfers, windsurfers, quick little dinghies.”

    He says the competition also has to stop jumping between different designs, from a variety of catamarans in the past decade back to monohulls. 

    Sticking to one class of boat would significantly reduce the outlay from his minimum £110 million investment, with Ratcliffe hoping a much cheaper operation could double the number of competing teams from the four involved in the 36th America’s Cup.

    “And most importantly of all you need a level playing field,” he says. The competition is mired in obscure rules tilted for the benefit of the defending boat and an invited Challenger of Record. The Kiwi hosts had been designing their boats for months before Ainslie and his team were able to see all the complex technical specifications.

    “The America’s Cup, it’s not what I would describe as a successful sport at the moment,” Ratcliffe says. “It’s very much a minority sport. People don’t really understand it. The changes from one race to another are too big. It’s too litigious, a bit complicated, and there aren’t enough people who race. There probably needs to be a governing body. It won’t happen for the next America’s Cup but we have tried to engage people. I don’t think I am breaking any confidence to say the Kiwis are of a similar view.”

    So a commitment to stay in the sport? “We are open-minded to it. It’s been great sport so far, we’ve enjoyed it. If we are going to get involved again, we think it needs to be a successful sport not one that is in decline.

    “We have had conversations but we do also recognise we are very much the new kids on the block. New Zealand have raced ten times, won three of them. We kicked it off in 1851 but we haven’t been tremendously successful.”

    That is an understatement. There has not been a British winner (even the landlocked Swiss claim two wins) but strides have been taken in reaching the Prada Cup final which marks the first time in nearly 40 years a British team will race in the final of the challenger selection series.

    It has been a very bumpy journey. Ainslie’s team seemed bereft before Christmas with a boat that could not “take off” onto the foils unless the winds picked up. Humiliation loomed. “It was complete misery, to be honest,” Ratcliffe says. “It was very depressing.”

    On top of the difficulties of being a challenging boat and a newly branded team were all the disruptions of Covid. The first build was a write-off pretty much from the start. “We knew before it hit the water that we’d have to scrap it,” Ratcliffe says. “And these things are $30 million (about £21.9 million) a pop.

    “We only had one week on the water before we had to commit to hull two. That’s quite stressful for the design guys. On top of the hull, you are designing the rig, sail, foils. So you have all that chaos and drama in a very compressed timetable. We got to Christmas and it was a mess, really.”

    The tie-up with Mercedes proved advantageous in all the work done to make improvements, motorsport engineers helping with the foils in particular. The changes brought about a dramatic transformation. And then there is Ainslie, the most successful sailor in Olympic history with medals at five consecutive Olympics including gold at the four Games between 2000 and 2012 in a Laser and Finn.

    “Nothing about having a better boat, being lucky,”Ratcliffe says. “The best sailor wins. You can see when he is sailing this extraordinary foiling monohull, you can see why he won a world championship 11 times.”

    Anticipation is growing for the next round of racing, and much weather-checking too to see if conditions will be favourable. Despite an unbeaten run of victories in the round robin, Ratcliffe is playing down expectations as the British team prepares to come up against the Italians led by the hugely experienced Australian, Jimmy Spithill.

    “It would be very nice if we were to win but I think there is no question that they are the favourites because we have so much to learn,” Ratcliffe says. “We have great sailors, a great atmosphere and spirit in the team, but we don’t have the same experience.

    What makes the America’s Cup what it is and what separates it from all other sports is precisely what Ratcliffe dislikes in this article. The fact that it is unfair. Besides war, it is the apotheosis of design competition. It’s not about the best sailors, it never has been. I sincerely hope it remains this way. Although a bit of stability in the class of boat would be nice. 

    Besides if he wants F1 on water. Go to the TP52’s. They are precisely that. Extremely stable regs, lots of teams, the pinnacle of modern yacht design as we know it, while still being relatable to what boaties have in the marina. 

    • Like 6
  9. On 1/31/2021 at 10:18 PM, Aqua Firma 01 said:

    Quite strange lighting and hard to tell, but it looks like the port foil is a slight modification from the foils used in the round robin, with some area taken from the leading edge, whereas the starboard foil seems to be a more dramatic modification with significant are taken from the trailing edge as well as the leading edge. Or... is this a trick of lighting and perspective? 

    From Ineos' instagram..



    They have new inboard winglets. 

  10. 9 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

    did I’d anyone notice the elephant in the room in the go video?  Nobody switched sides during maneuvers....

    They've done it before in racing when immediately or almost immediately tacking/gybing after a mark rounding or in similar quick 1-2 manoeuvres in the start box. 

  11. 7 hours ago, yl75 said:

    It must be quite complicated for Alex, clearly he had the boat to win the thing (but Jérémie also), keeping on with another brand would be perfect

    I don't think there's a sponsor in the offshore big enough for AT after Hugo Boss. Maybe banque populaire but I don't ever see him going to Brittany. Ineos could expand its sailing operations, but the America's Cup is very much all or nothing. 

    • Like 1
  12. The boat is for sale but they're not getting rid of it just yet. Rdr and TJV. Also I wonder if Apivia would be the most saught after IMOCA, it was demonstrably the faster boat but we never saw HB in the southern ocean. They can always sell it to some billionaire otherwise. The bigger question is... what happens with the team? Will AT continue past the TJV, will they find a new skipper, sell everything or what. My money's on a new skipper, if I was AT, i don't think I'd want a 6th crack at it. But then again, if you're that driven... 

    • Like 1
  13. 7 hours ago, mako23 said:

    Both LR and Ineos have 8 days to lock down their design before measurement. It will be interesting to watch video of these two boats in the following week. 

    No more mods allowed after measurement? Or is it a time prohibitive to remeasure? I foresee big changes from everyone in the next few days. 

  14. On 1/28/2021 at 9:42 AM, Ex-yachtie said:

    Here you go. From about 1:30. 


    Pretty sure all teams are doing this. Heck even IMOCA mainsails are similarly depowered at the top but they have much less control. I'm more interested into how often and precisely they can control their main, akin to the bat wing from 2017. 

    • Like 2
  15. I roughly traced out, scanned and overlayed in photoshop (to get a clearer view) the foils of the remaining boats and defender from the best most recent photos I could find. Ineos definitely have the most unique foil as ETNZ is a straight carry over from the BWB concepts aerospace companies and NASA come up with all the time along with having a very discrete leading edge extension. LR seem to have copied the wing of an old air racer if you get the analogy. It's also much bigger than I first thought. ETNZ have the most efficient foil and when it comes to induced drag and will accelerate better than all the others IMO but Ineos have more RM and maybe a tad more lift at the expense of more drag. LR seems to be more stable and a happy middle ground. 2063660853_Foilprofiles.png.386f5f6bb988eb2196e6154d43004c60.png

    • Like 1
  16. 9 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

    Will be interesting which parking lot will be the home of Patriot and Magic. 

    Here are a couple dumped in Cowes,  no doubt some poor sucker is still picking up the tab. Probably Sir Ben's first victim as the rule was changed to cats soon after they were shipped to the UK.


    They would look beautiful on display somehwere more prominent in Cowes considering the heritage of the place. 

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