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Wavedancer II

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Posts posted by Wavedancer II

  1. A few folks here are misled all too easily by clever (?) LP language.

    For instance, LP has stated that World Sailing may inspect the building process; with tea and crumpets afterwards, presumably.

    Superficially, that looks nice, but the fact is that World Sailing doesn't inspect and never has; ILCA does. And LP hasn't allowed ILCA into their facility.

    Quite simple, really, but too many here are led astray, it appears.

    • Like 4
  2. 4 hours ago, tillerman said:

    Here is something else absolutely positive for Lasers and Laser sailors. The Oceania and Australian Laser Masters Championship has not been postponed. This regatta is being held at the same site as the (now postponed) ILCA Laser Masters Worlds  because it is apparently safe for the Oceania and Australian geezers to sail even if it isn't safe for the World geezers. So that's positive news.


    I will be right over!


    • Like 1
  3. A thought experiment:

    If one were to buy a new boat in the USA next year or so, and the choice would be between an ILCA dinghy (manufactured in the USA by whoever gets the nod) and an LPE boat (without ILCA sticker), the choice would be relatively straightforward, me thinks.

    However in Europe, perhaps a more difficult choice:

    For the weekend sailor, like Heini W, an LPE boat might work, but he wouldn't be able to sail the boat in certain 'bigger' events organized by ILCA, like the Masters Worlds; however, he could charter a 'legal' boat just for the occasion.

    For the aspiring Olympian, who intends to race in multiple international events the choice may be more difficult. Presumably, there will be a second European factory that will compete with LPE and would market (ILCA) legal boats. To make this topic less complex, let's keep price differences out of the discussion for now.

    Anyone willing to think this through a bit further?


    • Like 1
  4. 3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

    Looks like the PSA takeover of ILCA is complete?

    No builders will have any boats for 2020, even if all of them sign on tomorrow.  So, PSA gets free rein to sell their ILCA stuff everywhere - building a beachhead.
    Then they can charge massive royalties for anyone to make

    Definitely traded one cruel master for now an equally cruel one - that is just much further away.

    That may be true for 2020, but after that we should have other builders. Moreover,  right now, you can buy a wonderful 'club' Laser from LP and enjoy sailing it at many places. LP may even have a few legal ones left.

    • Like 1
  5. ILCA's great leader (Tracy) has looked into the future and sees C rigs in the Olympics in (roughly) ten years (2028?).  The latter is speculation on my part, but Tracy has clearly stated that white sails (and aluminum spars) are likely to disappear from the racing scene at the higher levels. At the club level, it may take a lot longer, which is totally fine with me. 

    Nevertheless, better start saving, because the C rigs will come at considerable cost.  And, as others have written, I doubt there will be a class vote about the change over. 

    • Like 1
  6. 6 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

    JFC, this is one of the biggest disasters ever.

    The Australian builder has changed the name of all their products (laser 4, 6 and 7), while the entire class is officially silent on things.
    EurILCA is at war with ILCA, and PSA employees are posting defacto statements in the class magazine about.... god knows what.


    As a long-time Laser sailor (20+ years), who has supported the class while it attempted to get away from LaserPerformance.

    It sounds like we've just been sold out to PSA.

    They're just making new rigs, advertising all this stuff as class legal, and there is limited official communication from the class?
    No wonder my friends talk about switching to Aeros and why more people do it. 

    Who the hell wants to deal with a boat or class like this anymore?
    Goddammit it's so tiresome guys.

    That response is way over the top and mostly erroneous.

    Whereas the C5 rig may be coming, it has not been legalized by the Class. And the other C rigs are further behind. PSA hasn't change the names either.

    Now I will go off speculating, but my prediction is that the first 'official' ILCA C5 regatta (with more than 20 boats) will be two years from now in the Pacific area. Maybe three years from now in the North American region. In the meantime, there will be many regattas with close to 100 Laser/ILCA boats where I could embarrass myself.

    Finally, as Bruce Hudson has already pointed out, there will be other builders at some point in time, even if LP continues in obstruction mode. In the latter context, let's bring out a toast to Dave Clark!

    • Like 1
  7. Just got the ILCA Laser Sailor winter issue. 

    Andy Roy (Chairman of the North American region) has some more 'inside' info. LP has signed an NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement) with the Class. But whether LP will sign the agreement presented by the Class remains to be seen. According to Andy, LP now needs to sign the FRAND documents and resolve its construction agreement breaches. To me, that sounds like  a sour apple for LP to eat.

    Interestingly, and notwithstanding all the 'noise' made by EurIlCA leadership and JPK (blogger), only about 11% of the European members actually voted. For North America, this percentage was  61%, resulting in a big win (78%) for the Class proposal. 

    • Like 2
  8. 2 hours ago, tillerman said:

    Radial Medal Race - Olympics 2012


    The Ladies Medal race (2012) is just as interesting as the Men's.

    Lijia Xu vs Marit Bouwmeester. Their styles remarkably different. Lijia smoother upwind, Marit more movement. But equally fast, it seems.

    And some great downwinds; on the second one Marit catches quite a few boats after rounding the top mark in eighth position (I think).

    • Like 1
  9. That's pretty much true for my (frostbiting) fleet as well. People typically upgrade to newer boats, but not new boats.

    7 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

    Back in the late 80's early 90's we'd get about 6 or so new boats a year in our district.  I stepped away from the class between 1995 and 2004.  When I got back in the same district would see about 3 new boats or so up through 2008 then it really tapered off to about 0.  In the last 4 years, (2016-2019) I'm aware of about 3 brand new boats to circulate in and one has not been sailed.



  10. Who was 'supervising' Andy Hunt while he was loosing all this money?

    Someone else should be held accountable!

    On 10/19/2019 at 4:15 AM, bdu98252 said:

    Andy Hunt is moving on before his decision making truly comes him to roost. I am starting to think thatbthis ceo stuff is pretty easy. You just need to get your next position done 12 months before the shit hits the fan and it is nothing to do with you.


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