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Curious2

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Everything posted by Curious2

  1. Hi all; I'm replacing the dead Danforth in my J/36 with a Fortress. The boat is four and a half hours away, so measuring the anchor is a problem. Can anyone tell me what size Fortress fits into the J/35 and J/36 anchor locker? I'm looking for the biggest practical pick. Cheers
  2. Sure, and unless they are being very well sailed they can become troublesome in the very light stuff (Asso 99s can look fast in comparison, and they are an ancient design) and fall over in the strong stuff as well. But much of that applies to a 75 foot version. No big mono can hold an equivalent multi so why even bother? Monos are great but they are just not as fast so let's concentrate on what they are good at and not what they are weak at.
  3. So where are the race results showing Q23 style foilers winning races and beating foiling cats? In fact, where are the race results showing Q23 style foilers consistently winning races ahead of fast sportsboats?
  4. Okay, it's a mono - but it's a mono of a type that most sailors still can't relate to and it would be much slower than a multi. It's also a bit doubtful if a new class should be modelled off one that is effectively almost dead; surely that says something about their appeal. The Libera A class is down to about three active boats I think, and last time I saw them there was a huge disparity in their performance.
  5. Thanks Chopper. Interesting. Thanks for the info..
  6. So how do those kitefoiler speeds compare to an AC50's speeds? If the foilers are hitting 40 knots then even with the foiling cats we were back to the same situation we had with surfcats and 12 Metres in the 1960s and '70s, when a cheap "beach craft" was faster than an AC boat. Obviously the speeds are utterly different, but back in the day many people felt that it was ludicrous that the AC boat was slower and they ignored that the two boats were completely different beasts. From some angles it seems as if we are back in the same situation but now it's the cat that is the bigger and slowe
  7. Cyclors were first used in the AC by Sweden with the 12 Metre Sverige. I seem to recall that Australia III used the first gennicker. The hula was just another example of a rule dodge or (normally short-lived) design innovation, to be ranked alongside the open cockpit in 12s (the UK), the bendy fibreglass topmast in 12s (UK), the Park Avenue boom and bendy boom (UK/US), the duralimun (sp) mast (USA), the multiple rating certificate (USA), the shark skin (USA), the canard foils (USA), the bulb keel (USA), the fin keel (USA), the bustle (USA) etc etc etc. Glass fibre is just one of
  8. How often since the 1850s has the AC used something no one else thought of?
  9. Anyway, I won't read this thread any more because I want to stop the hijack that TC and other multi fans started a couple of pages back.
  10. Other mono races have existed for 170 years. That hasn't changed. Tornadoes are now slower than N20FCS, little N17s and tiny kitefoilers. Does that mean that they bore you? If Tornadoes don't bore a Tornado sailor then why should monos bore mono sailors? Yes, four out of 35 winners were the fastest of the time, You could add Reliance and a few more that were marginally quicker than other boats in normal inshore conditions. That means that about 25 out of 35 winners or more were NOT the fastest boats of the time at all or by a significant margin. That means that anyone trying to claim tha
  11. Yeah, sorry, some people who have never caught on to the bleeding obvious started complaining that foiling monos were not in the spirit of the Cup 70 posts back and it went on from there. It could be highly relevant, though, if PB and GD sat down and got someone to work out how to create a boat that followed the tradition of the AC. Arguably if they did that they wouldn't go for a radical full foiler, but something more like a fixed-keel WOXI or Comanche with DSS. So that's one guess at what a foiling mono could look like.
  12. It's relevant to AC 36 because some people keep on claiming that the AC has always been about having the fastest possible boat within the Deed. The fact that they required the Js to be tough hulls with good accommodation is just one more of many pieces of evidence that proves it's not true. If we're going to have a boat for AC 36 that follows the tradition of the Cup it would be very different from the ones in AC 33, 34 and 35.
  13. Surfsailor; With respect, in this case I'll have to disagree with you and agree with Vanderbilt, who owned and ran the boats. He said that the accommodation that had to go in after the rule change weighed seven tons, or about 5% of the displacement of Enterprise. The more substantial mast that was required by the new rules was only 1/10th as much. At that level of competition, adding 6.5% to the total displacement is enough to destroy a boat's chance. That's why Enterprise was scrapped. So let's look at the challenges in the 1900s to see what men like Vanderbilt were doing. We get Re
  14. Sorry, I wasn't disputing that America had a sailcloth advantage with her flat cotton sails compared to the baggy British flax sails, and that the USA didn't maintain that for many years (although later in the 1800s Ratseys got close or maybe ahead). I was just saying that I don't know whether sails and sailcloth had to be CiC until after Gretel's challenge. The Ratsey loft sounds great. I just found that there's a book on the history of R & L I'll have to buy.
  15. No, my view is not distorted; it's the one that is indicated by facts and figures like class rules and ratings, and by the words and deeds of those who created the AC and made it a legend. There is no evidence that GLS wanted "the fastest boat within the Deed restrictions". What the authors wanted was a boat that satisfied the mutual consent clause, within those restrictions. The donors did not want to re-play the race around the Isle of Wight. Schuyler made that clear in the letter I noted above. So did the challengers, and (after a delay of one race) the NYYC. That's why they changed it
  16. Depends what you call "the day". America used a Ratsey sail unsuccessfully in her race around the Island. I can't find out about who was involved in actually making the sails in the big-boat era. I don't know who cut the Herbulot spinnakers the Brits used early in the 12 Metre era - perhaps they were copies of the French sails? We do know that US cloth was also used in the Gretel challenge, and then the NYYC re-interpreted the CinC clause to include sailcloth which forced the Aussies to create KAdron. There's a lot of PR about it in Baverstock's 1967 book, and a brief mention here . You
  17. Apparently it was because Larry & Co. didn't give a fuck about the wishes of the donors, or the Cup's history. The nationality issue is something different. The example of (and allegations including) people like Joseph Busk shows how complicated it was. I'm not sure there is any definitive answer that anyone has ever found. I haven't even had a chance to really nail down the meaning of "constructed" at the time. Certainly we know that the term was used in formal naval architecture to mean "designer" and had been for eons. It seems to have also been used in that way in NY yachting cir
  18. +1, although to me a blown-up TP52 with foils for reaching would seem like an acceptable compromise.
  19. I'm not using the seaworthiness of a mono and the foiling kite on the other. Nor do I particularly want the next AC to be in a mono. The point about the foiling kite was that it's you can't logically diss one type of sailing craft because they are slower than another type of sailing craft, when ignoring the fact that there's a third type that's faster than both. If it's silly that a 70 footer can be beaten by an inshore racing 32 footer then it's just as silly that the 32 footer can be beaten by an inshore-racing 3 footer. To jeer at the mono because it's slower than a cat while ignoring
  20. Sorry, but once again you are wrong. For a start, there's no record of any faster boats in the UK that couldn't participate because of the "own bottom" rule. There were racing boats that were too big and theoretically too fast to race (Maria, Satanita, Westward, etc) - but no big racing boats that were not seaworthy enough. Secondly, the AC WAS a slower contest, from 1958 to 2010 - the era when it had the greatest number of entries, and the greatest number of countries. The early 12s were slower than the remaining Ms (which still sometimes raced as a class around that era) and often
  21. But you're wrong. It's as simple as that. The first AC was not about the fastest US hull; America was not the fastest yacht in the USA. The fastest British boat pulled out to help a damaged competitor. The second AC wasn't about the fastest British hull, but a pretty run-of-the-mill cruiser/racer. The third AC was about a British cruiser/racer that was known to be a complete flop even before she left England. The fourth and fifth challengers weren't fast boats, and they weren't British. The sixth challenger was a pretty quick boat. The seventh challenger was a cru
  22. Who cares? We were told here that the kitefoilers are hitting speeds close to the foiling 45s, which surely means that those GC32s and the C Class would also be whipped by some dude hanging from a string. On a dollar-for-dollar or length-for-length basis the GC to kitefoiler comparison is probably no better than the GC32 to mono comparison. I confess, I still don't understand the people who make a big deal about multis going faster than monos, but ignore the fact that Moths and kitefoilers can go faster than multis. If you want the ultimate in modern design and efficiency, go for a kite
  23. ACS, we could go back and forth on anecdotes all day, like the techy 20-somethings I know who lived a couple of blocks from the SF racetrack and didn't hear a single mention from a single one of their friends about the SF AC during the entire event. The only bar I walked into that was showing the last AC indicated that it attracted mild interest from two people who didn't look as if they were ever going to go sailing or be in any advertiser's dream demographic, some interest from me, and zilch from another cat sailor I was with. No one else looked at all. If the last couple of ACs had goo
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