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Posts posted by 40Plus

  1. 4 hours ago, symbio2 said:

    Schematically, these pure foiling Ultims, are just a tad quicker from around 70° to 130° of the wind, with a swell under about 2 meters. Beside that, these boat are significantly slower.

    It's what the polar datas, along sea state, show.

    Btw, the picture just above illustrating very nicely my view.

    For the North Atlantic segment, while the weather was pretty nice with full tailwind up to the tradewinds who were really great (beside, with the tradewinds there is never serious swell to deal with), Gitana wasn't quicker than Idec.

    Yes they partly preserved the boat, but it's because there is huge uncertainties on the reliability, while it's totally part of the performance equation.

    In the South Atlantic, the weather was perfect for Gitana from start to the finish (while Idec struggled with larger doldrums, unstable tradewinds and transition with a low pressure system that needed some positioning adjustments). Among others, Gitana perfectly used the amazing accuracy of the latest developments in forecast and routing.

    Now with the "south ocean", serious things starting.


    The Sodebo attempt shown same problematics.


    Some forget way to much that Idec was able to maintain an average day of 35nds (850nm by day) almost 10 days in a row, and on a direct VMG (while dealing with differents low pressure system...).

    And so far these foiling Ultims can't do this (even with the exact same weather than Idec had to deal with, among others because as soon as that the sweel is above something around 2,5m the boat average speed decrease strongly).

    Also I think, in the current "config", these foiling Ultims never will.


    Would like to see these polars you mentioned, sounds like BS to me. You forget that Idec, formerly Groupama 3, has been developed for over 12 years before the JV record, the Ultimes are in their infancy and will take time optimize. In the mean time, a reminder of G3 in their 2008 JV attempt. https://www.google.com/search?q=groupama+3+capsize&rlz=1C9BKJA_enCA864CA864&hl=en-US&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk00RjhBvzsy-Dk8EBi0sTuCtj5eDXw:1611277448022&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiotrGfrK7uAhUVOH0KHaNUBeYQ_AUoAXoECAUQAQ&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=iTCrifsba6yzDM


    • Like 1
  2. 3 minutes ago, Airwick said:

    I'm not even sure that's the worst case! In theory at least you can depower nicely with a rigid wing, having to go downwind in that would probably be more of a concern...
    But before you even got there, chances are even a "small" log would take you out!

    On a displacement hull when you meet a chunk of wood it will typically first hit the hull and and when it hits the foil it's right at the base where it meets the hull so even at fairly high speed you still have a reasonable chance of surviving without catastrophic damage.
    On these foiling things, the same piece of wood hits a lot closer to the tip and is a lot more likely to cause the foil to slice through the hull where they meet so it would be truly scary sailing a boat like this at 25+kt in R2AK waters. 

    That's a lot of knots per dollars though (at least until you consider the running costs)!

    BTW, my question was meant as sarcasm. Having been in Hecate Strait in those conditions pretty sure you would be upside down in an AC 45. As for logs, yup know all about those! 

    • Like 1
  3. 23 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

    It does get a bit wild around here sometimes.This was day before yesterday in the Rogue the County race and the photos don't really do it justice. I've seen more wind in the R2AK and it seems like anybody wanting to go for the cash should be ready for stuff like this. I needed to bear off and was too chicken after going upwind in it for most of the day. This was with about 100 sq ft of mainsail only.



    Yup, makes PERFECT sense to enter in an AC 45! 

  4. 23 minutes ago, mundt said:

    Right now it's blowing 25+ out front. I was down tidying up my boats and watching the kiters shredding the Point.  If you were out there right now on any light multi you would be very challenged, more so if the water was extremely cold.  One mistake and you're a few minutes away from a permanent hypothermic nap.  With 100s of hours of practice these conditions can be "fun" but look what Alex Honnold calls "fun," I shit myself just looking at pictures.  Think you could turn the boat around and go pluck a soaking body out of the water in those conditions?  Next time you're doing 20+ kts. downwind in big waves throw a floaty off the back and then see what it's like when you turn around and try to go back, the view alone will be quite an eye opener.  Flip over in big waves and extremely cold water, especially at 2 a.m. and you'll just have a few minutes to review things before nighty night.  The guys on Mad Dog had the advantage of S.F. Bay which can certainly simulate "worst case scenarios."  Get a fast boat and practice your asses off in every possible condition, especially pushing hard at night in super light and super heavy air.

    Spot on! 

  5. 4 hours ago, mundt said:

    Super high-end mountaineering tents on carbon wings might be better than building a cuddy.  The French have sailed beachcats across oceans in that style.  If you're going that route an M32 or similar and a total of 3 or 4 mammals that are ultra-trained and ready to suffer just like alpine climbers attacking a big mountain is the way to get it done.  Read a couple good mountaineering books.  A Seacart 30 is not much roomier inside than a tent.  They are pretty powered-up without a taller mast. If you have to take six people, it's gonna take a very large multi and that will add many layers of problems to your campaign.  Again, the mountaineering analogy, small team of extremely prepared and dedicated beasts who love to suffer.  You don't see those blokes carrying a cabin up the side of a mountain.  The guys on Mad Dog set the standard, beat their record if you can.

    @CWK To put into perspective the Multi 50’s race with 5 for their fully crewed races, MOD 70’s take 6 on their long distance races i.e. Transatlantic, to think you can go with 6 on a multi on anything under 40’ without severely effecting it’s performance is a mistake. What Randy and the boys did on Mad Dog was amazing, having said that they had “relatively” benign conditions compared to some years. My question would be if you had a year where you have 30-35 knots  and wave conditions  that go along with it for several days how will you deal with it on a M32 or Extreme 40? I’m sure Randy had a plan for that eventuality. To me it’s a bit of a stretch to come up with the perfect boat for the R2AK, it depends on the conditions that year,  2019 we had 25+ in Johnston Strait with opposing current (the two boats behind us were hit with a 40knt micro burst)  and we had similar conditions in Hecate Strait, the waves there were nasty, I’m not sure how you would deal with that in a M32 or something similar. If you want to win and have a boat that performs really well in a variety of conditions a SC 30 is your answer, assuming you can find one and afford it. If you want to try to beat the record than there is an extreme 40 for sale in the Bay Area but you are rolling the dice in regards to the weather being in your favour for 3 days, if it turns bad you are in the shit. If you are serious about going with something like a M32 you should talk to Randy and get some first hand insight. 

    • Like 1
  6. 10 hours ago, multihuler said:

    It is hard to race against a stupid amount of money and I assume Mad Dog's record will never be beat, BUT, R2AK is now a new race, offshore or inshore, I am signed up for offshore, and I challenge any and all fast multihulls to join in!

    Ps, the true winner of the R2AK will ALWAYS be whomever finishes last


    So you are going on the outside even if the forecast favours the Inside a route?

  7. 1 hour ago, gspot said:

    I think Mad Dog is a textbook case of exactly what needs to happen in order to win the R2AK:

    1. Bring the fastest possible boat
    2. Practice so you can sail it to its potential in the full range of of conditions
    3. Pray to Jesus/Allah/Buddha/Ganesh or sell your soul as to not crash into anything in the middle of the night
    4. Hope your competitors don't do 1-3 better than you


  8. 11 minutes ago, Floating Duck said:

    I do have to second this.

    I'm bringing a boat that maaaaay be considered suboptimal to some, but... It's the boat I want regardless of the R2AK.

    I'll be racing it before R2AK (Swiftsure, RTC, etc), and I'll continue racing it after R2AK (Van Isle, etc).

    Can't wait to see you out there! 

    FD - What boat do you have? 

  9. 7 minutes ago, D Wayne G said:

    My old F9AR Redshift is for sale. I built that boat light and strong so that she could carry a load and be competitive. She rated -12 when I sailed her and is weapon in all conditions. She could support a crew of four and be very competitive in the R2AK. 


    • Like 2
  10. 1 hour ago, unShirley said:

    The second place boat last year, Pear Shaped Racing, looks to be very similar to Time Machine.  Is it?  PSR is a little longer.  It was sailed with 3 people aboard.  

    At 34.5’ I think we are about 6’ bigger than Time Machine. We sailed with 3 in the 2019 R2AK, when you add gear, water etc we were sailing with equivalent weight of 4. With just 3 on a boat like Dragon it was very tiring, if you aren’t sailing you are pedalling or doing sail changes, navigation etc and a lot of sail changes which amounted to little or no sleep. We were having hallucinations on the last day, not fun and not safe.  I don’t think Time Machine would have the load carrying ability to sail with three and still perform well so you with two you would essentially be sailing single handed in order for the other person to get some rest. Better have a good AP. 

    • Like 2
  11. MAYBE a couple of Figaro sailors on something like a SC30, maybe if the conditions were favourable.  I think you underestimate the difficulties of sailing this race course shorthanded on a high performance multi. Very difficult if not impossible to get enough sleep unless, like I mentioned before, the conditions are ideal. The round Britain article is a testament to the SC30, however they were racing in double-handed race with stopovers not against another high performance multi with a full crew. 


  12. 37 minutes ago, gspot said:

    Is there that much more shit in the water north of Cape Scott?

    I've done thousands of miles of singlehanded watches under autopilot on my 12 metre monohull around all parts of Vancouver Island, but admittedly not north of Cape Scott. 

    With an autopilot you definitely have to keep watch and adjust the pilot a few degrees up or down to avoid crap or for wind shifts, but I find it far less fatiguing to keep watch under autopilot than while helming, so I can easily do 3-4 hour watches around the clock. It's also much easier to trim the sails, look for wind shifts etc.

    That said, compared to our multihull the monohull sails  like a freight train - once you get it going it sails at pretty much the same speed for the given conditions, so the apparent wind doesn't move around very much. I have comparatively little experience sailing a multihull under autopilot, but I could imagine the acceleration of the boat and the resulting apparent wind shifts to be a complicating factor. 

    G - I can attest that the amount of debris we saw on the way North and the return trip to Victoria was unbelievable. I think the main culprit is the debris from the Skeena River. 

    As for the autopilot, if you are wanting something that is going to drive the boat at a continuous race pace you are going to have to spend some $$ on a B&G or NKE system and spend time calibrating everything. We used our AP when pedalling and to free up an extra set of hands dealing with some manoeuvres I think the idea others are talking about of 2 up on a SC 30 is not realistic, keep in mind that if you aren’t sailing you are pedalling, combine that with sail changes, lots of Manoeuvres and a race course that gets harder and harder as you head north I don’t think you could be “racey” for much the course. 

  13. 1 hour ago, mundt said:

    Russel would know better than I, but in my experience maximizing the sailing on a light, powerful boat in even very light air is way faster over time than any human power contraption on a 30 foot boat.  The human power is probably best used for short spurts to get you out of a cove or on to the next patch of breeze.  On a boat like the Seacart you should be able to maintain a higher speed with really focused sailing than you could paddle/pedal for very long.  I think Mad Dog did the R2AK in a style that would be very hard to beat.  Very, very fast boat, tough crew willing to suffer and take risks.  Though I know there are blokes that could do it, trying to win with only 2 guys and depending on an autopilot in an area like that seems like it would require plenty of good luck.

    I think you summed it up nicely. 

    • Like 1
  14. 11 hours ago, gspot said:

    And the offshore route requires you need to bring even more safety equipment, like a life raft, which is yet another 80lbs of dead weight, so you definitely need load carrying capacity

    No liferaft requirements for the outside. I’m not sure there is more safety gear needed if you went on the outside than what you would want to carry for the inside route anyway so I’m not sure extra safety gear weight for the outside route is that much of a factor if at all. 

    • Like 1
  15. 29 minutes ago, ChrisJD said:

    I use a 3rd-gen iPad Pro 12.9” for work, and would like to be able to use it as an extra chart kit onboard, but need to feel safe with the risk of water intrusion.  (If I drop it overboard, that’s on me.). I’ve been looking online and it doesn’t appear that LifeProof makes any cases for the 3rd- or 4th-gen iPad Pros, and the Otterbox cases don’t appear to be waterproof.  For anyone with a 3rd- or 4th-gen iPad, what case are you using, and how is it working for you?

    This ... https://www.andres-industries-shop.de/epages/78133167.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/78133167/Categories/Produkte/Cases

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