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Randy Smyth's scizzor trimaran


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Twice he's had problems - but this is a fascinating trimaran. Why has it folded? - sounds a bit like Guy Delarge's OSTAR proa when stays were not locked. Has anyone got the latest information on the boat? And other similar designs too. And these boats not only have to be high performers, carrying a minimal, but still quite large amount of gear, they also have to be portaged over some decent distances. And the Smyth scizzor tri is mostly a cunning assemblage of sticks and string to enable this. There is a place for similar races to the Florida and Texas ones here in NZ. I know Noel Fuller has been sailing his small foiler Sabrina up mangrove rivers and wheeling it over the old Maori trail portages. Waitemata, Manukau and Kaipara harbours. These are clever, but not expensive boats, mostly self designed and the right ingredients for future sailing .... since the conventional version is apparently failing to get numbers of new recruits.

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I think the error on one was "crew" as he got caught by a puff while working the front of the boat at night.

 

It's funny to hear about him sailing out of light air by paddling to build apparent wind... It was great fun to watch him build one. I'm sure if you had a spare 40k he could build you one too...;-)

 

 

 

Twice he's had problems - but this is a fascinating trimaran. Why has it folded? - sounds a bit like Guy Delarge's OSTAR proa when stays were not locked. Has anyone got the latest information on the boat? And other similar designs too. And these boats not only have to be high performers, carrying a minimal, but still quite large amount of gear, they also have to be portaged over some decent distances. And the Smyth scizzor tri is mostly a cunning assemblage of sticks and string to enable this. There is a place for similar races to the Florida and Texas ones here in NZ. I know Noel Fuller has been sailing his small foiler Sabrina up mangrove rivers and wheeling it over the old Maori trail portages. Waitemata, Manukau and Kaipara harbours. These are clever, but not expensive boats, mostly self designed and the right ingredients for future sailing .... since the conventional version is apparently failing to get numbers of new recruits.
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Got to see it first hand 2 years ago, lined up on the beach next to it with a Raptor. Did a quick horizon job on me. Very high SA to weight ratio, and length to width ratio. In the last Everglades Challenege, Scizzors stayed ahead of a well driven Tornado until it ran into mechanical problems.

 

I asked Randy about it a year ago or so, and he shared a few stats:

 

168 lbs total weight

20' long with 20" sprit, modified A-cat hull

18' wide OA

26' a-class mast

Upwind SA: 185

Downwind SA: 337

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Got to see it first hand 2 years ago, lined up on the beach next to it with a Raptor. Did a quick horizon job on me. Very high SA to weight ratio, and length to width ratio. In the last Everglades Challenege, Scizzors stayed ahead of a well driven Tornado until it ran into mechanical problems.

 

I asked Randy about it a year ago or so, and he shared a few stats:

 

168 lbs total weight

20' long with 20" sprit, modified A-cat hull

18' wide OA

26' a-class mast

Upwind SA: 185

Downwind SA: 337

 

Dom the ama's move fore and aft?

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Got to see it first hand 2 years ago, lined up on the beach next to it with a Raptor. Did a quick horizon job on me. Very high SA to weight ratio, and length to width ratio. In the last Everglades Challenege, Scizzors stayed ahead of a well driven Tornado until it ran into mechanical problems.

 

I asked Randy about it a year ago or so, and he shared a few stats:

 

168 lbs total weight

20' long with 20" sprit, modified A-cat hull

18' wide OA

26' a-class mast

Upwind SA: 185

Downwind SA: 337

 

Dom the ama's move fore and aft?

 

They do. Slides the windward side aft.

 

BTW, I'm swagging the $40k number... Call him... may surprise you.

 

C.

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I absolutely love Randy Smyth's Scizzors trimaran design! It's kind of like the evil sibling of an already very aggressive A-cat.

 

I've saved every pic of it I could find, mostly from the 2009 Everglades Challenge. But other than being an admirer of Randy's design work, I have no additional info, nor a budget sufficient to join in the fun. :P

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PS: A recent profile of Randy Smyth in Emerald Coast Magazine (posted in an earlier thread) states that

 

"In 2010, Smyth plans to compete in the Ultimate Water Challenge, which will see him paddling and sailing 1,200 miles through Gulf Waters and Florida rivers in a narrow, adjustable-width catamaran that he designed and calls The Scissor. At one point, he’ll have to carry the cat on a 40-mile portage."

 

40-mile portage sounds crazy even without having to "port" anything, much less a high-performance trimaran! Let's hope there are some photographers and reporters around to inform those of us who won't be there.

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Interesting concept and all sorts of things happening with the leeward float moving foward ( such as canting the mast to windward ) but it does beg to go the whole way and fit J foils to the Amas. :rolleyes:

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I believe the question is the second capsize. On the Key Largo Steeple chase a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

 

I think the error on one was "crew" as he got caught by a puff while working the front of the boat at night.

 

It's funny to hear about him sailing out of light air by paddling to build apparent wind... It was great fun to watch him build one. I'm sure if you had a spare 40k he could build you one too...;-)

 

 

 

Twice he's had problems - but this is a fascinating trimaran. Why has it folded? - sounds a bit like Guy Delarge's OSTAR proa when stays were not locked. Has anyone got the latest information on the boat? And other similar designs too. And these boats not only have to be high performers, carrying a minimal, but still quite large amount of gear, they also have to be portaged over some decent distances. And the Smyth scizzor tri is mostly a cunning assemblage of sticks and string to enable this. There is a place for similar races to the Florida and Texas ones here in NZ. I know Noel Fuller has been sailing his small foiler Sabrina up mangrove rivers and wheeling it over the old Maori trail portages. Waitemata, Manukau and Kaipara harbours. These are clever, but not expensive boats, mostly self designed and the right ingredients for future sailing .... since the conventional version is apparently failing to get numbers of new recruits.

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PS: A recent profile of Randy Smyth in Emerald Coast Magazine (posted in an earlier thread) states that

 

"In 2010, Smyth plans to compete in the Ultimate Water Challenge, which will see him paddling and sailing 1,200 miles through Gulf Waters and Florida rivers in a narrow, adjustable-width catamaran that he designed and calls The Scissor. At one point, he’ll have to carry the cat on a 40-mile portage."

 

40-mile portage sounds crazy even without having to "port" anything, much less a high-performance trimaran! Let's hope there are some photographers and reporters around to inform those of us who won't be there.

 

The highest point in Florida is Britton hill at 345ft. Florida is a flat place - so lugging under 170 lbs of cat about doesn't sound so bad if you have a reasonable pair of wheels. I don't know about 40 miles though...

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Randy won't have to lug the trimaran on the 40 mile portage. In fact, he won't even have to paddle it up the St. Mary's River, or down the Suwannee, either. There is a provision in the rules that allows for folks with Class 5 boats to leave them at what amounts to the river mouth on the Atlantic side and continue on across the peninsula with a pre-positioned canoe, or kayak.

 

He would use the second boat to go upstream, followed by the portage and then downstream to the Gulf of Mexico side. At that point, he can pick up the trimaran again, leaving the canoe/kayak behind and haul ass to the finish line under sail.

 

While he is doing the river/portage/river segment, a ground crew (which he has to pre-arrange) will schlep his tri across to the Gulf side.

 

Chris O

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We'll be covering A-Cat regatta next week out of Islamorada in the keys, Randy will be there. If anyone has any specific questions for him about this craft or any other, send me a PM or an email.

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We'll be covering A-Cat regatta next week out of Islamorada in the keys, Randy will be there. If anyone has any specific questions for him about this craft or any other, send me a PM or an email.

 

Glad to see you continue with the good multihull coverage, Clean! I'd probably ask Randy similar questions to what you asked Hobie Alter last year. Stuff like: What's your advice to a young sailor getting into catamarans? What's the best class to get into cats? What are your top 5 tips for sailing a cat fast?

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We'll be covering A-Cat regatta next week out of Islamorada in the keys, Randy will be there. If anyone has any specific questions for him about this craft or any other, send me a PM or an email.

 

 

Clean, you by chance covering Tradewinds as well on way to KWRW? Jan 15th-17th?

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We'll be covering A-Cat regatta next week out of Islamorada in the keys, Randy will be there. If anyone has any specific questions for him about this craft or any other, send me a PM or an email.

 

 

Clean, you by chance covering Tradewinds as well on way to KWRW? Jan 15th-17th?

 

 

We'll be there for Tradewinds Jan 12th at Founders Park in Islamorada to start practicing... there will be several other boats there early as well for a clinic by Robbie Daniels.

 

 

Theres a bunch more pictures of Randy's boat on catsailor.com from the steeplechase story including him righting it.

 

Clean... it'd be great if you could swing by!

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Went and found his story about meeting Homeland Security somewhere off Gasparilla (off Red Fish pass, sounds like):

 

A Most Unusual Night

 

Randy Smyth recounts his first attempt at the Everglades Challenge. Supplement to "Smyth, From One Adventure to the Next," from our July/August 2008 issue

Jul 2, 2008

 

By Randy Smyth

 

At the end of the first leg I was on a sandbar lowering my mast and collapsing my beam to fit under and through a railway bridge to get to the checkpoint up a bayou. A big powerboat wake crashed over the boat when I was half way finished collapsing the beam, which caused a crucial stabilizing bar to break.

 

I managed to paddle to the checkpoint in first place—second place was the eventual winning Tornado sailed by Jamie Livingston and Steve Lomire. After finding a replacement aluminum bar at the local ACE Hardware Store I got back into the race (after losing about four hours). Before midnight, while blasting out the Gasparilla Inlet I cut the corner and got broadsided by a breaking wave that caused a loud crack sounding like breaking carbon. After dropping my sails I couldn't find any damage with my flashlight so I resumed sailing into the night

 

Just when I was about to try out the autopilot and get a catnap, at about 1 a.m., while 9 miles offshore, I got pulled over by homeland security, complete with blue flashing lights, a bullhorn and a searchlight.

 

"Why don't you have registration numbers," he asked me.

 

I don't have a motor.

 

"We're going to board you . . . well maybe we won't [the officer clearly couldn't figure out how my 10-inch main hull could support another person].

 

"Why don't you have red and green lights? he asked.

 

"I'm too short," I responded.

 

"Why didn't you show your white light?"

 

"I figured you could see me with your searchlight."

 

"Well you're right that a white light is legal for your length of vessel, but not if you exceed 7 knots and we had you on radar at way over 7 knots. We're going to terminate your voyage, but we can't figure out how to tow your vessel. So just don't ever do this again."

 

And off they sped into the night.

 

About an hour later my entire leeward ama broke free and was dragged behind held on by a small line. So, if I got off my perch on my 8-foot outrigger I would capsize. If I tacked, the mast would fall down.

 

Luckily, the wind angle allowed me to reach shore at 4 a.m. in Naples, Fla., a lights-out bedroom community. It was silent. Then I noticed some movement in the shadows down the beach. Four spring breakers with a clear head start in the party department approached. They were astonished to see my craft, generously shared their pizza and beer and most important their hot shower.

 

 

From here: http://www.sailingworld.com/racing-views/e...1000062492.html

there's an audio interview with Smyth as well, on this page:

http://www.sailingworld.com/racing-views/e...1000062491.html

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I believe the question is the second capsize. On the Key Largo Steeple chase a couple of weeks ago.

 

I think he told us, after the race, he pulled the wrong line to move the ama . He went back instead of forward, and he pitchpoled, but, I may be remembering wrong. It happens.

Foggy

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As I remember from him telling me:

 

Late at night, so not thinking too clearly. The rolled up screecher was barely dragging in the water, so he went to pull it out of the water, and tighten the lashing. A puff or accidental autopilot disengage or something (I forget), and over it went.

 

Not a big problem, as its easy to right...

 

But in the capsize, a hatch in the hull blew out. So the hull filled with water. When trying to right it, it would go bow down, and could not be righted.

 

He tells a good story, sorry I'm not so good retelling it.

 

Yep, That was the Everglades Challenge.

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  • 1 month later...

That is definitely not self righting, (weak joke) okay, what does Randy suggest as a better solution? - aside from not inverting in the first place (second piss poor joke). Adjustable rigging shrouds? The scissor has to fold to get up narrow channels and for portaging etc. but it isn't helping the self save righting. ... and there were two people levering. A sealed mast might have made it a fraction easier, that is, if it wasn't already sealed. I have no answers.

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There's nothing like a mast-top float and a righting pole, at least for regular beach cats. Maybe Randy could rig something similar to Sizzor? The downside would be more windage and weight, which would be antithetical to the trimaran's design philosophy.

 

Righting and other developmental issues aside, Randy's Sizzor trimaran is still the coolest and most innovative multihull design I've seen in a long, long time.

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There's nothing like a mast-top float and a righting pole,

 

Uhh yeah there is. Its called a sealed mast and a righting line.

 

 

I've only seen one right pole that I liked the setup on where it was faster to right than with a standard righting line thrown over the hull.

 

And a hobiebob is SLOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW and heavy up top. All that weight at the top of the mast means you need more righting moment to keep it from goign tits up in the first place.

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There's nothing like a mast-top float and a righting pole,

 

Uhh yeah there is. Its called a sealed mast and a righting line.

 

 

I've only seen one right pole that I liked the setup on where it was faster to right than with a standard righting line thrown over the hull.

 

And a hobiebob is SLOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW and heavy up top. All that weight at the top of the mast means you need more righting moment to keep it from goign tits up in the first place.

 

I Agree. Mast-top float = training wheels, righting pole is for old and fat. In my experience the hardest part is not to actually right the boat, but get back on board afterwards.

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Agreed, IF your mast is sealed. If your mast isn't sealed, getting the boat from turtled to lying on its side is darn near impossible, especially if its a small single handed cat (H14). In my somewhat limited experience, the bigger the boat, the easier it is to right because you have more hull area to stand on when the boat is on its side. I'm sure then Scizzor tri suffers from this a little bit.

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Wow. I guess I have to spell everything out for you little kiddies. My bad, being surrounded by smart engineers limits my kiddie speak to once a week...this isn't your week.

 

Don't be so fragile dude. We are sure you are very intelligent, and all that daily affirmation shit, but in all fairness your statement does warrant some explanation.

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Agreed, IF your mast is sealed. If your mast isn't sealed, getting the boat from turtled to lying on its side is darn near impossible, especially if its a small single handed cat (H14). In my somewhat limited experience, the bigger the boat, the easier it is to right because you have more hull area to stand on when the boat is on its side. I'm sure then Scizzor tri suffers from this a little bit.

 

well this is not a "how to right a capsized beachcat"-thread. Anyway: "Hull area to stand on" has nothing to do with rightability and sailing without a sealed mast is outright stupid. The only boat i have been able to capsize and only get my ankles wet, when righting it alone, is a HC14. Righting the cat is all about how much effort ( weight & technic, mostly weight ) is needed to get the mast-top out of the water.

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Agreed, IF your mast is sealed. If your mast isn't sealed, getting the boat from turtled to lying on its side is darn near impossible, especially if its a small single handed cat (H14). In my somewhat limited experience, the bigger the boat, the easier it is to right because you have more hull area to stand on when the boat is on its side. I'm sure then Scizzor tri suffers from this a little bit.

 

well this is not a "how to right a capsized beachcat"-thread. Anyway: "Hull area to stand on" has nothing to do with rightability and sailing without a sealed mast is outright stupid. The only boat i have been able to capsize and only get my ankles wet, when righting it alone, is a HC14. Righting the cat is all about how much effort ( weight & technic, mostly weight ) is needed to get the mast-top out of the water.

 

And exactly what is the Scizzor tri? I would place that in the category of "beach", not L'Hydroptere. And yes, sailing without a sealed mast is stupid, but every mast will leak if left in the water long enough...the mast in question was sealed at the top but one of the mainsail cleat rivets wasn't sealed; this happened to be under water when turtled, resulting in a flooded mast.

 

All this is moot, the real question is where is the Scizzor tri now? Gearing up for another Everglades Challeng?

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Scizzor is sitting on the beach at the the start of the ec 2010. Its just ovver my right shoulder as I type this. I took a bunch of pics that I'll upload later tonight.

 

I watched him sail it in. It hauls!

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Well, Randy has gone over again and that is very disappointing. Maybe Sew Sew scissor needs foils??? Or longer floats? Or a fixed beam? If he's going over, the buoyancy out there is inadequate ... but foils maybe too much of a hassle, going up mangrove creeks etc. The Tornado set a new record on this leg - which was pretty fresh in the wind department.

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Scizzor is sitting on the beach at the the start of the ec 2010. Its just ovver my right shoulder as I type this. I took a bunch of pics that I'll upload later tonight.

 

I watched him sail it in. It hauls!

 

Looking forward to the pictures, and a race report!

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Randy's tri is fascinating, but it looks really complicated and he's proven its prone to breakage. When I saw it last year, I though that it would be a neat class of its own, but after thinking about it for a while, you might be better off with an Acat and add a jib and a hooter.

 

Its the same weight as an Acat, and you could do this race with an oversized main, a jib and a hooter and no one would complain.

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Scizzor is sitting on the beach at the the start of the ec 2010. Its just ovver my right shoulder as I type this. I took a bunch of pics that I'll upload later tonight.

 

I watched him sail it in. It hauls!

 

Looking forward to the pictures, and a race report!

 

 

Why didnt he finish with the Tornado? Did he break down? He was either faster than the T or right behind last year until he broke down.

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  • 1 year later...

Randy finished 15 minutes in front of the Tornado this year. Really nice job on his part, considering a 41 hour day for one person isn't exactly easy...maybe he added an autopilot?

 

Also, the finish times on the Everglades Challenge website appear inaccurate or account for some penalties? http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229490Post229490

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Any reports on how Bethwait's did? I'd also be curious to see some photos of Randy's current version.

 

Bruno, what are you using as outriggers? What is the center hull, it looks canoe based but could be anything in disguise from the top view.

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Thanks for the Bethwaite design, he always does interesting things. I'm currently using airbags for amas, they're working well but sticky on the water, may try 1man canoe amas I have if I can't improve my sailing technique. Hull is based on an old Burton surfski design with a skiffish ass and a modified finn rig. I need a good Finn boom to solve some issues with rotation and chafe. Currently trying a flatter sail which probably needs less luff curve as AW changes a lot.

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Any reports on how Bethwait's did? I'd also be curious to see some photos of Randy's current version.

 

I was curious to see it too, and drove up to watch the Everglades Challenge start. Unfortunately, there were strong gravity storms centered around my bed early that morning, and I got off to a late start. I had just located Sizzor when the horn blew. You can see it very briefly in the first video on this page:

 

2011 Everglades Challenge Start

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I don't know how they did. I heard one withdrew along the way, but many (including Randy after he won) were mistakenly marked DNF on the Watertribe website. The mistakes were corrected, then would reappear. I heard the Chief was ready to scalp someone because of the various tech problems this year.

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I had a chance to do a quick walkaround of Randy's Sizzor tri before the Everglades Challenge. I put it up for some of you who asked about an up to date look at the boat. Some really cool bits like the scizzoring mechanism of course, the short jib track, shroud adjusters and bowsprit.

 

Here is the vid.

 

 

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I had a chance to do a quick walkaround of Randy's Sizzor tri before the Everglades Challenge. I put it up for some of you who asked about an up to date look at the boat. Some really cool bits like the scizzoring mechanism of course, the short jib track, shroud adjusters and bowsprit.

 

Here is the vid.

Interesting that its got a bit of a destroyer bow.

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