Rumors -- what's amac up to?

[rtrs 0]

Come one, someone must be able to drop some hints!

[MR.CLEAN 3,917]

http://wwww.mcdougalldesign.com/

 

I know but I'm not telling!

 

but think lots of new foiling things.

[Rolfe'd 0]

Now thats just mean.

 

Any other hints?

[rtrs 0]

Now thats just mean.

 

Any other hints?

 

assume non-moth foiling things?

[MR.CLEAN 3,917]

Well, you know how Moths favor a certain weight and athletic ability? Not really the best thing for kids or older folks, or guys my size?

 

Amac's gonna fix that with some new toys.

 

And that's just the beginning. We are extremely lucky to have sponsors like him - people who are always thinking 'progress'.

[laserichard 11]

i hope that if this is a new racing class, it doesnt splinter people off from the foiling moth class. that would not be cool

[Rolfe'd 0]

Well, you know how Moths favor a certain weight and athletic ability? Not really the best thing for kids or older folks, or guys my size?

 

Amac's gonna fix that with some new toys.

 

And that's just the beginning. We are extremely lucky to have sponsors like him - people who are always thinking 'progress'.

 

now that sounds a little more enticing

[teknologika 5]

here's a working link http://www.mcdougalldesigns.com/McDougall_...oils_Sails.html

 

and the text from his site

 

.. snip ... and 2010 will see the introduction of some of the most exciting and revolutionary new projects in years.

 

... snip ...

 

The scale and global potential of the next generation McDougall Designs projects will see the need for external funding.

 

Somewhere in the word Doug Lord is saying ... "I told you, a peoples foiler .... "

[punter 0]

here's a working link http://www.mcdougalldesigns.com/McDougall_...oils_Sails.html

 

and the text from his site

 

.. snip ... and 2010 will see the introduction of some of the most exciting and revolutionary new projects in years.

 

... snip ...

 

The scale and global potential of the next generation McDougall Designs projects will see the need for external funding.

 

Somewhere in the word Doug Lord is saying ... "I told you, a peoples foiler .... "

 

It does actually sound like that.

[AlStorer 4]

here's a working link http://www.mcdougalldesigns.com/McDougall_...oils_Sails.html

 

and the text from his site

 

.. snip ... and 2010 will see the introduction of some of the most exciting and revolutionary new projects in years.

 

... snip ...

 

The scale and global potential of the next generation McDougall Designs projects will see the need for external funding.

 

Somewhere in the word Doug Lord is saying ... "I told you, a peoples foiler .... "

Now that's a cock-tease and a half- though it must be taken with a pinch of salt, as it is clearly marketing-talk (to raise the investment).

 

If Doug was here, he'd have seen that from this thread posted a new thread announcing it as if it was something no-one had seen before, posted some irrelvant stolen images of other boats plus pictures of his models and the AeroSkiff failure, churned out meaningless figures and made some wild predictions (which would later turn out to be wrong) about the technology involved, before the usual greek chorus turned up and turned it into a shitfight. no progress would have been made.

[BalticBandit 7]

here's a working link http://www.mcdougalldesigns.com/McDougall_...oils_Sails.html

 

and the text from his site

 

.. snip ... and 2010 will see the introduction of some of the most exciting and revolutionary new projects in years.

 

... snip ...

 

The scale and global potential of the next generation McDougall Designs projects will see the need for external funding.

 

Somewhere in the word Doug Lord is saying ... "I told you, a peoples foiler .... "

Now that's a cock-tease and a half- though it must be taken with a pinch of salt, as it is clearly marketing-talk (to raise the investment).

 

If Doug was here, he'd have seen that from this thread posted a new thread announcing it as if it was something no-one had seen before, posted some irrelvant stolen images of other boats plus pictures of his models and the AeroSkiff failure, churned out meaningless figures and made some wild predictions (which would later turn out to be wrong) about the technology involved, before the usual greek chorus turned up and turned it into a shitfight. no progress would have been made.

 

Oh please.... those figures wouldn't be meaningless. I mean we all KNOW that Sail Area to Weight is what foiling is all about

 

Ducking and grabbing for his coat :-)

 

 

 

But I for one would love something that is class legal as a moth, not necessarily competitive at the top end but which gets my sorry ass out flying.

[peterraymond 1]

But I for one would love something that is class legal as a moth, not necessarily competitive at the top end but which gets my sorry ass out flying.

 

It seems like the wands are working pretty well, but keeping the boat upright during the learning curve is a big barrier. Inflatable floats have to help, but making the Moth a trimaran with a narrow hull added under each rack would make the boat more approachable. They would let you sail slow as you learn to balance. I think that you still want to be balanced on the center hull before you lift off though.

 

If you never raced you could sail around and be happy. If you wanted to race you would have to go back to a single hull.

 

The BladeRider has a cheap option, but of course cheap is a relative term. A couple S&T hulls should be just fine for the amas.

[Ludicrous Speed 1]

Well, you know how Moths favor a certain weight and athletic ability? Not really the best thing for kids or older folks, or guys my size?

 

Amac's gonna fix that with some new toys.

 

And that's just the beginning. We are extremely lucky to have sponsors like him - people who are always thinking 'progress'.

 

I like where your going with this! Timing? I was just thinking about anothr Acat or trying a Moth but agree that they are not ideal design for the masses. Can't wait to hear more on this...

[teknologika 5]

IMHO ... if you can't get a current moth flying there is nothing that is class legal that will get you flying any easier, but "down the back", you can't increase sail area, you can't decrease weight.

 

A Bladerider FX type boat just doesn't work ... the people I know who brought one quickly upgraded to a carbon boat instead, so that is out too.

 

So what would I do ....

 

I would extend the hull length to around 13-14 feet, and a 45-50mm beam, ditch the gantry ... you can keep current moth foils. But I assume that you would want to deliberately reduce top speed so kids can safely sail them, then you can go for fatter, stronger higher drag foils.

 

Sail area could go up a bit, to deal with the extra weight, and increase the wingspan to about 8 feet.

 

If you wanted to ditch the wand you could go for surface piercing foils, Hytropere style, or maybe just an updated, simplified version of the hobie tri-foiler.

[mexican 13]

here's a working link http://www.mcdougalldesigns.com/McDougall_...oils_Sails.html

 

and the text from his site

 

.. snip ... and 2010 will see the introduction of some of the most exciting and revolutionary new projects in years.

 

... snip ...

 

The scale and global potential of the next generation McDougall Designs projects will see the need for external funding.

 

Somewhere in the word Doug Lord is saying ... "I told you, a peoples foiler .... "

Now that's a cock-tease and a half- though it must be taken with a pinch of salt, as it is clearly marketing-talk (to raise the investment).

 

If Doug was here, he'd have seen that from this thread posted a new thread announcing it as if it was something no-one had seen before, posted some irrelvant stolen images of other boats plus pictures of his models and the AeroSkiff failure, churned out meaningless figures and made some wild predictions (which would later turn out to be wrong) about the technology involved, before the usual greek chorus turned up and turned it into a shitfight. no progress would have been made.

 

I know, I miss him too.

 

Mex

[david lister 1]

you should get an investor to bruce sounds good

[peterraymond 1]

A Bladerider FX type boat just doesn't work ... the people I know who brought one quickly upgraded to a carbon boat instead, so that is out too.

 

I thought the only difference was weight. Is the weight alone enough to make it unpleasant?

 

Maybe an FX boat that is longer with wider racks and more sail area as you suggest, but I think adding a thin light hull under each rack would do more and compromise less than a wider hull.

 

I can imagine juniors on some version of this boat, but not smaller kids.

[chucktheskiffie 0]

speaking of bruces that need an investor, i know another one, if he could keep it out of the tide!

[Helmy 0]

Your'e all way off the track...your on the spot Black Rock spotter can tell you -

1. Amac took his daughter out on his Mach2 a couple of weeks ago - secret mid week sail - so whe's obviously working on a 2 hander

2. Amac also went out on Meaty's I14 last week - you guys connect the dots - Amac foil guru...I14 (Worlds 3rd place getter) with rudder foils

[teknologika 5]

I thought the only difference was weight. Is the weight alone enough to make it unpleasant?

 

Weight was the main difference ... the marketing claimed "Around 40kg" all up weight, but the post here http://bristol-moths.blogspot.com/2010/01/...nie-part-2.html by Mike Cooke shows the carbon Bladerider RX was 44.4 KG all up. I am estimating that so a FX must be some where around 5-10 KG more so 50-55 KG all up weight. As a comparison Mike's Ninja is only 30 KG.

 

If you want to fly a heavier skipper the last thing you need is a 25 KG handicap from the boat before you start.

[dougculnane 0]

Interesting all this speculation! Here is my take.

 

No body seams to want a cheap Moth. Mach 2 already have a fast expensive one. Amach is a great designer when it comes to refinement of design but I have yet to see anything radically different from him (but I do not know about his windsurfing design). So makeing a bigger Moth in the hope that it will be faster cheaper and cater for larger sailors seams like the only thing left at first glance. This is going to be hard to pull of as bigger is heavier and once foiling there is plenty power so more sail is not the easy fix answer some may hope for. However Bruce seams to have the desgn brief sorted for such a project.

 

A 2 man foiler would be very interesting idea and help with the heavy crew problem becuase you can sail with a light pasenger. It would also not have to compete directly with the Moth which is good because the Moth will win. However what is the passenger going to do? I can not belive that a spinaker is a good idea or cheap. So the pasenger is really going to be a passenger, or a foil controler tachtision, sail trimmer, actuall probaly they would be busy?... Also the manuvours will be hard but fun and the social side of 2 man boats would be fun learning to foil.

 

You would also have to not make a Moth type boat that is so uncomportable to sail. Therefore I think an i14 on foils without the spinaker is maybe the design starting point. However this would involve a lot of R and D and time to get it right so the investors will need deep pockets.

 

So what will it be? I do not know but it will be interesting to follow. I am sure SA will report in an objective way and not just hype a product from their sponsors.

[Pete M 11]

You would also have to not make a Moth type boat that is so uncomportable to sail. Therefore I think an i14 on foils without the spinaker is maybe the design starting point. However this would involve a lot of R and D and time to get it right so the investors will need deep pockets.

 

a foiled I14 would need to lose a lot of weight - but as the class is keeping the allowed weight high ( don't ask - something about the percieved value of used hulls) - hulls can easily be built to 70% - or even 50%- of the allowed weight

[AlStorer 4]

Therefore I think an i14 on foils without the spinaker is maybe the design starting point. However this would involve a lot of R and D and time to get it right so the investors will need deep pockets.

Rather than a trapeze boat, what about something more akin to an all carbon B14 without a kite? Would be even more like a "giant moth". Hull maybe a bit too wide? We're just going to carbon wings, and new hulls tend to have some amount of corrector to keep them within spec- and that's in mainly glass construction.

[Board skiff 619]

Putting 2 + 2 together (=5) - is this connected to the foiling NS14 Ian Ward has been spied sailing? Could be a good platform to base a two person foiled on.

Re 8ft beam - surely wider is harder when it comes to tacking?