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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

That's an interesting perspective. I tend to think the opposite, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. My theory is that there are all these sailboat owners (or potential owners) who are somewhat intimidated by the thought of a starting line and mark roundings with 20 other boats. So the boring booze cruises introduce them to "sailing-lite" where they can get a taste of competition. If they want to move up the chain into faster more competitive classes and events, they're free to do so. If you're lucky, 1 out of 4 will do so.

 

Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but your approach is to significantly participation in the boring booze cruises so that (if my completely unscientific stats are accurate), the number of 25%'ers who want to move into competitive racing will also increase.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were cross-overs in both directions - some Grand Touring moving to Gran Prix, Gran Prix moving to Grand Touring. Growth is key, customer satisfaction is more key.

 

 

How can one move back and forth with sail material limitations, age of crew, and other mandates? I guess I could just tell those 'older' crew members that may have been sailing with me for years to go buy their own boat but that would suck. You've got to remember that these folks aren't just a number, their likely friends and really, wouldn't you rather be confined on a boat in pressure situations (racing) with friends. Granted, I have made it a mission to take on at least two newbies each year. Often they come out of our CCYC Crew school program but sometimes they are friends of friends or...

 

Sadly, accomplishing Grand Touring means more rules, as if there aren't enough in this sport (RRS, NOR, SI, Competitor Classification, PHRF, ORR, Special Regulations, etc.). It is written there are 2 new sails per year max. If you race in Gran Prix, and bought all new sails this year and suddenly decide to shift to Grand Touring, you must meet the rule. Leave two of your new sails on board, and pull the old sails back onto the boat. No different than agreeing to abide by the rules and not run the engine in gear during a race.

 

And why aren't we telling crew to go out and buy their own boats and get racing? That is not a bad thing, that is a good thing and there needs to be more of it. Look at Jarrett Altmin, just a few years ago he was schlepping sails up and down, back and forth with us, he went and bought a B36.7 and was chair for their B36.7 Nationals this year. Am I sorry to have lost him? Of course the answer is yes and no. Yes because he's a great guy and good to be with on a boat. No because he has added one more boat to the starting line, and has had to bring more crew on another boat out there and now involved in the management side of racing. Oh to watch those wee ones grow up!

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Thanks.  Jon Santarelli was one of ours.  One of the Area 3 good guys. We sailed may miles together and drank many different types of alcoholic drinks together.  We did Macs on Goblin together an

I do love it and the factors you lay out have very little to do with my love it. - Low turn out. : whether there are 8 boats in my class to race against or 16, we are still racing just as hard.

Allan Teske crossed the bar on April 30th. Others are more familiar with his accomplishments than myself, so feel free to add anything I missed Over 50 Chicago Macs Master Mariner

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bubberboy, but isn't that a good thing? You mean you want to play a game with soft competition?! Sailing against better boats makes you better. Otherwise what's you point? Might as well do Fleet Review at CYC. :D

I think it's actually a difficult balance that a class has to try and achieve in order to thrive locally. If you favor the "no-holds-barred" approach because it drives up the level of competition, that's fine if you are primarily motivated and participate solely in order to try to improve your skills and becoming better. But not all OD classes have owners for whom that is the sole and over-riding priority. Some owners want a balance of competitiveness, enjoyment, ability to still sail with some friends on their crew, reasonable expenditures, etc. Over time people to tend to gravitate to the classes where the majority of owners share the same parameter space. A shared comfort zone. What is bad for such a class is when one or two owners come in and want to play the game at a significantly higher/intense level - it may make for a more challenging level of competition, but if it comes at the price of dwindling participation, I think we can all agree that is it not a good thing. It may be that other owners also raise their game or new owners who wanted to see that class be more competitive, come in to replace those who feel "priced out". In that case, the class could still thrive. But if that doesn't happen the class dies, and the former owners move to a different class or, if this happens to them often enough, become disenchanted and move out of the sport entirely. There do exist classes with no or few limits on pros, sail purchases, boat prep/modifications - people who want to compete under that rubric should seek them out first, before trying to impose that on another class.

 

Now,lest I be misunderstood, I'm not talking about shying away form trying to be more competitive in a class by practicing, working on crew work, developing a great crew, drivers, trimmers etc, and working on boat tuning... that is indeed part of the fun. But except for time - that all comes "free". That is different than deciding to hire 3-5 pros, buy new sails for every regatta, change out hulls/rig every couple years before they go "soft", etc.

 

That's why the good classes have limits on that sort of thing. And by good classes, I mean the T-10 class.
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Chicago has the greatest sailing POTENTIAL in the world. Boats everywhere, millions of people to draw from, multiple clubs/harbors, a good amount of money, exposure galore - I look forward to watching the transformation into a model for sailing everywhere. Culture is the hardest thing to change, and the easiest thing to lose. Everybody buy in.

Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking?

 

Cynicism will get us no where. If we don't believe in it, then what's the point?

 

The point of ANY successful venture is to set REALISTIC goals - not some pie in the sky fantasy that is is obviously far off the rocker.

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Quick question than you can return to your regularly scheduled programming... is there a "go to" yard/shop Area III racers use for bottom prep? Like the equivalent of a Waterline Systems in Rhode Island? A place that you would send something like a 105 or 109 to for stripping, fairing (within class rules) and new bottom paint?

Ritchie Geoghan's work is equivalent to Waterline.

 

 

For what it's worth, several years ago I looked into redoing the bottom on a J24 and got a quote from Torreson's over in Muskegon. It was pretty good, a fair bit less than Waterline System's standard quote for J24 bottom rebuild. We never did do the work, we sold the boat.

 

I had taken a bog boat over there for some mid-season keel work the year before and they did a knock out job for about 1/3rd what the owner was thinking it was going to cost.

 

I would consider getting a quote from them.

 

 

Thanks Mongo and Midpack, I'll look into both of these.

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bubberboy, but isn't that a good thing? You mean you want to play a game with soft competition?! Sailing against better boats makes you better. Otherwise what's you point? Might as well do Fleet Review at CYC. :D

I think it's actually a difficult balance that a class has to try and achieve in order to thrive locally. If you favor the "no-holds-barred" approach because it drives up the level of competition, that's fine if you are primarily motivated and participate solely in order to try to improve your skills and becoming better. But not all OD classes have owners for whom that is the sole and over-riding priority. Some owners want a balance of competitiveness, enjoyment, ability to still sail with some friends on their crew, reasonable expenditures, etc. Over time people to tend to gravitate to the classes where the majority of owners share the same parameter space. A shared comfort zone. What is bad for such a class is when one or two owners come in and want to play the game at a significantly higher/intense level - it may make for a more challenging level of competition, but if it comes at the price of dwindling participation, I think we can all agree that is it not a good thing. It may be that other owners also raise their game or new owners who wanted to see that class be more competitive, come in to replace those who feel "priced out". In that case, the class could still thrive. But if that doesn't happen the class dies, and the former owners move to a different class or, if this happens to them often enough, become disenchanted and move out of the sport entirely. There do exist classes with no or few limits on pros, sail purchases, boat prep/modifications - people who want to compete under that rubric should seek them out first, before trying to impose that on another class.

 

Now,lest I be misunderstood, I'm not talking about shying away form trying to be more competitive in a class by practicing, working on crew work, developing a great crew, drivers, trimmers etc, and working on boat tuning... that is indeed part of the fun. But except for time - that all comes "free". That is different than deciding to hire 3-5 pros, buy new sails for every regatta, change out hulls/rig every couple years before they go "soft", etc.

 

That's why the good classes have limits on that sort of thing. And by good classes, I mean the T-10 class.

 

 

But it's not always that cut and dried - consider the F40 class - you are allowed 9 new sails per year (that's basically a complete inventory), and up to 4 pros on the crew. But the Chicago/GL F40 fleet isn't really playing that game - no one is getting 9 new sails a year (unless a new boat) or using 4 pros for every race/regatta. Sure, they almost all have one or two pros for Regattas (NOOD, Verve, etc.) and usually they get 3-5 sails per year. And not because of any rule that the GL40 fleet has adopted, it ls just this seems to be the level the owners have settled on "organically". If someone were to come into town and start playing the full-on F40 game, the fleet would die. So some classes just find the right balance point independently of what the class rules allow.

 

One could argue for the existence of "local" class rules that are stricter than international class rules, and in some cases that works fine (e.g., T-10). But that can pose complications for boats that travel to/from the local area or when hosting a National or World championship - e.g., if you are used to sailing with a higher crew weight (or "free'' crew that don't count against the limits (e.g, under 18)), now you have to change/re-train crew if you go somewhere else or host a class regatta.

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If you want more boats on the race courses you need more people on the boats. Unless the costs of putting crew on the boats becomes reasonable you will have a hard time getting more boats out there. How about setting up some parking areas which cheap parking and shuttles to the different harbors? That may attract more people to show up a crew.

 

 

there is something like that, it's called the CTA/Metra

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Moe money can desimate a OD class sailed by pluggers. Look what happens when a few or bunch a 1%'ers ( and .00001%) jump into your OD class and start cleaning up. Your old Tard-10/ J70 / J111, or Fart 40 gets smoked by your pseudo peers who show up with new(er) hulls, a crew of some allegedly non-paid midgets, a pro tacticain out of the pages of SeaWhores Spankazine,,a new suit, and marine electronics you didn't even know existed...

 

A fleet of lasers on the beach @ Montrose for rent would be nice... No club, just rent & race....

 

Not all of us get smoked when outsiders show up.... :ph34r:

 

As SOTM says, when those pseudo peers show up it ups your game.

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bubberboy, but isn't that a good thing? You mean you want to play a game with soft competition?! Sailing against better boats makes you better. Otherwise what's you point? Might as well do Fleet Review at CYC. :D

 

I think it's actually a difficult balance that a class has to try and achieve in order to thrive locally. If you favor the "no-holds-barred" approach because it drives up the level of competition, that's fine if you are primarily motivated and participate solely in order to try to improve your skills and becoming better. But not all OD classes have owners for whom that is the sole and over-riding priority. Some owners want a balance of competitiveness, enjoyment, ability to still sail with some friends on their crew, reasonable expenditures, etc. Over time people to tend to gravitate to the classes where the majority of owners share the same parameter space. A shared comfort zone. What is bad for such a class is when one or two owners come in and want to play the game at a significantly higher/intense level - it may make for a more challenging level of competition, but if it comes at the price of dwindling participation, I think we can all agree that is it not a good thing. It may be that other owners also raise their game or new owners who wanted to see that class be more competitive, come in to replace those who feel "priced out". In that case, the class could still thrive. But if that doesn't happen the class dies, and the former owners move to a different class or, if this happens to them often enough, become disenchanted and move out of the sport entirely. There do exist classes with no or few limits on pros, sail purchases, boat prep/modifications - people who want to compete under that rubric should seek them out first, before trying to impose that on another class.

 

Now,lest I be misunderstood, I'm not talking about shying away form trying to be more competitive in a class by practicing, working on crew work, developing a great crew, drivers, trimmers etc, and working on boat tuning... that is indeed part of the fun. But except for time - that all comes "free". That is different than deciding to hire 3-5 pros, buy new sails for every regatta, change out hulls/rig every couple years before they go "soft", etc.

 

A few years ago when Terry Kohler (RIP) owned North Sails, I called him to ask about sail limitations. What do you think his answer was?

 

Terry was 100% for it. He said he wants more boats racing and when those boats are limited to two sails a year, that is more sails than North would have been able to sell that same boat as a harbor cruiser or lake cruiser. He said to make it happen.

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If you're not racing GP and are playing with the freshman in a GT class I don't see why you'd be buying more than 2 new sails per year. Unless you were the bench warming high schooler that snuck onto the Jr. High playground so you could be the best. If the goal is fun to play, make it fun. The rule should be public shaming of any twit that is trying to win a GT style class with $$$$.

 

Since I don't check in her much....

-expensive parking - yup, but by the lines at the bars I bet there are plenty of peeps meeting the demographic said to be targeted within public transit, UBER, or whatever the millennial flavor of the day is right outside their door. BTW, they were out chasing tinder tail at the bars so might want to push that start time back a tad.

 

-Good on ya'll for trying to work it out, but just go sail. Share some crew around to boats that are short if when needed. I picked up a ride with some great people that way this year. Met new people, broadened my network. They've rung twice when needing someone. Another time I was the difference maker in getting an additional boat out on a Wed Night. I don't know that I ever saw a crew split/consolidate on a Wed for the sake of helping more boats on the line. Surely there's some owners at the clubs that would be gung ho to go out, but aren't up for getting a crew together. Help them out. All it takes is sharing 1 person from the regular crew (preferably someone who actually knows what they're up to). 3-4 boats do this as ambassadors and you might get another boat on the line.

 

-Paying to race down under? That's pretty stupid IMOH. They must have some serious demand for crew as we discuss how to even get people out. A voluntary chip in from crew, bringing beer, food is cool, etc is cool but that's a far cry from paying a fee. As previously noted, the crew is putting up some $$$ to just get to the dock. One area Pay to Play may be OK is if a OD cooperative fleet/club was set up. In Brooklyn they have a fleet of J70/Melges 24's and you can join for about $3k year give or take depending on the level of membership. Doesn't seem to bad when you consider it's a walk on walk off relationship.

 

-What's up with the youth sailing scene? How many owners have/had kids and are they sailing now? Teach 'em early and have sailors for life.

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I think the main potential I see is not to get more people to buy boats, or crews to become boat owners, but to bring out the folks who already own boats, already are paying for insurance, dockage, storage, maintenance, etc., and get them excited about racing. Provide a lower-pressure entry point, with a trajectory for increased participation and competitiveness (and investment too, of course) if one so desires. If this happens it will increase crewing opportunities too, since more boats = more crew, and more opportunties for graduates of "crew schools" to find a home.

 

+1

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-What's up with the youth sailing scene? How many owners have/had kids and are they sailing now? Teach 'em early and have sailors for life.

 

That's the old model that used to work, it's not that simple anymore. Junior Sail programs are still pretty well attended (babysitting/summer camp?). But it's pretty well documented that most Jr Sailors haven't been turning into adult sailors for a generation or more. Can't find the exact stat, but it's something like '95% of the junior sailors have quit sailing by age 22- never to return.' It might have been Nick Hayes https://savingsailing.com

 

[Edit] Found it http://archive.sailingscuttlebutt.com/archived_Detail.asp?key=5044

SCUTTLEBUTT 3688 - Tuesday, October 2, 2012

 

WHAT DO THE INGREDIENTS OF BEER HAVE TO DO WITH SAILING?

By Glenn McCarthy, Lake Michigan SuRF Newsletter

Put hops, malt, barley and water in four concrete steel reinforced silos

and do not mix them, what do you get? Nothing good! Mix them together and

you get beer, something real good.

 

We broke off Junior Sailing/ Sailing Schools into their own silo. These

programs are growing, everyone involved is enthusiastic. We broke off High

School sailing into its own silo. It is one of the greatest success stories

in sailing today, more and more High Schools are signing up and competing

against one another. Collegiate Sailing is in its own silo. While more

mature, it is also growing today. Adult sailing is in its own silo. Just

like the Beer example, we leave these four ingredients in their own silos

and do not mix them. And what do we have? Nothing good at the end of the

day! Adult sailing is struggling at most levels.

 

There are 300,000 juniors between the ages of 5 and 21 in their three silos

in this country. By age 22, 95% of them have quit sailing. Why? It is all

about "peers." They see their peers quit without ramification, and so they

quit too - no loss (see the related story on growing your yacht club

membership through your sailing school, there is a golden lining). We have

been justifying that when sailors get out of college they are busy

establishing themselves in the working world, changing jobs frequently,

getting housing, moving regularly to get better deals, dating, going to

weddings, getting married themselves, having children, etc. Wait a moment

there, isn't that the exact same stuff we did at that age and didn't we

keep sailing? Why is this now an excuse not to sail?

 

We (I'm a boomer) kept sailing because when we were juniors, we sailed with

adults. They were part of our peer group. We saw sailors in their 20's,

30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and a few hanger-ons in their 90's who

all sailed. We knew that they were part of our peers. We knew that we, too,

would be sailing for a lifetime. This cycle has been broken.

 

It was never an intention to segregate the age groups, we enjoyed racing

with all ages on board. I remember sailing on Inferno in the early 1970's,

a red C&C 52 owned by Jim McHugh (McHugh Construction Company) when I was

about 12. This was the days of RDF, before Loran or GPS. It was a long

distance single-day course race in which we were the lead boat. The

navigator hailed to the crew "I owe a beer to whoever can spot the mark." I

said, "It's right up ahead, a little to the right of our course."

 

All of the crew looked and looked and couldn't see it and started to

disbelieve me. I said, "It is white on top, orange in the middle and white

on the bottom." The navigator knew the colors of the mark and said there

was no way I could have guessed that and I must be seeing it. We sailed to

it and rounded it; it was our mark. The point being, I was helpful to the

team at age 12, they understood I contributed to the team, and I became one

of them right at that moment, having earned my spot. (To the Inferno

navigator: I forgot your name, I'm old enough now and you still owe me that

beer. Call me).

 

If the silo system for young sailors was in place back then, I would not

have been on Inferno, I would have been at some Opti or 420 regatta

somewhere, with helicopter parents shuttling me around. Read on:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/12/1001/

 

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We just spoke today about the importance as a fleet and as sailors, especially owners to keep track of your crew. Whether they come once or ten times, racing or cruising, it doesn't matter we need to get the people without boats rides and make it a priority. This keeps attention high and attracts others that see that finding someone to sail with isn't that difficult.

 

All owners should have info on crew, get it to a forum, fleet page, social secretary, whatever....and use it for crew finding. It works on a few clubs on the east coast really well and Chicago seems a bit limited.

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.
Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.

Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

Your 30 something friends cant socialize with people older than them? Sound socially inept...

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Keysrock35,

 

It's not that they can't or don't its just that it isn't their preferred scene. Same reason my 30 something friends don't go and hang out at John Barleycorn's in Wrigley with 20 somethings.

We have talked a lot on hear recently about "critical mass" of boats or crew, also applies to the social scene too. Not my rules, just making a social observation. Not sure what the fix is though but from your comment it sounds like you don't think fostering a younger crowd at the club is necessary or important. Good luck finding a bow guy in 10 years if this trend keeps up! :lol:

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.

Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

Your 30 something friends cant socialize with people older than them? Sound socially inept...

 

 

A 30 something may be capable of socializing with his or her grandparents and their friends but may just choose not to do so on a regular basis.

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Exactly. "Choose" was my point. Of course most well raised, normal people can socialize across a large age range but if you are looking to attract a specific age group it is helpful to have a critical mass of peers of the same age.

 

Keyrocks, the more I think about it, your earlier comment pisses me off. I don't know who you are but there is a high probability based on your remark that you are one of those late 50 somethings with a mount gay red hat, braided belt, and wearing last year's regatta t-shirt because you think that it proves you've been there, done that one before. Assuming this is the case, you have a hand why the current sailing scene isn't "cool" anymore and why younger crowds would rather go play beach volleyball and sit on a rooftop bar instead of race sailboats and hang out at the club....

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Good luck finding a bow guy in 10 years if this trend keeps up! :lol:

You have been gone a while. Sprit boats are the large asteroid to us dinosaurs.

 

 

Yeah - and let's not talk about doing a peel, or setting up the jib on port groove/center halyard so you had stbd groove/stbd halyard free for the inside change on stdb tack, leaving the port wing halyard for the kite! This was when you had three halyards all at the hounds (masthead what?), and had to keep track of peels so you knew when it was time to go up and swap them over. Oh, and don't forget to unclip that babystay and throw it over the pole during the jibe ! Doesn't anyone want me to show them how to do a wire-rope splice? Sutures extra...

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Those were the days...
Reminds me of my first bow assignment in Chicago on Tripp 47 Success with Doc Greenwald around 2001 during college. It was kind of a cruising version of the old Goblin but slightly different for anyone who remembers the boat...

 

Kids have it easy these days with Sprint boats!

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Keysrock35,

 

It's not that they can't or don't its just that it isn't their preferred scene. Same reason my 30 something friends don't go and hang out at John Barleycorn's in Wrigley with 20 somethings.

We have talked a lot on hear recently about "critical mass" of boats or crew, also applies to the social scene too. Not my rules, just making a social observation. Not sure what the fix is though but from your comment it sounds like you don't think fostering a younger crowd at the club is necessary or important. Good luck finding a bow guy in 10 years if this trend keeps up! :lol:

I'm a 20 something and have no trouble socializing with you old guys

Exactly. "Choose" was my point. Of course most well raised, normal people can socialize across a large age range but if you are looking to attract a specific age group it is helpful to have a critical mass of peers of the same age.

 

Keyrocks, the more I think about it, your earlier comment pisses me off. I don't know who you are but there is a high probability based on your remark that you are one of those late 50 somethings with a mount gay red hat, braided belt, and wearing last year's regatta t-shirt because you think that it proves you've been there, done that one before. Assuming this is the case, you have a hand why the current sailing scene isn't "cool" anymore and why younger crowds would rather go play beach volleyball and sit on a rooftop bar instead of race sailboats and hang out at the club....

I'm 28 asshat and own and race 2 C&C 35-1s.

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.

Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

Your 30 something friends cant socialize with people older than them? Sound socially inept...

 

 

A 30 something may be capable of socializing with his or her grandparents and their friends but may just choose not to do so on a regular basis.

 

My crew ranges in age from 16-75, roughly 14 people in the pool (most in their 20s or 40s) and we have a pretty good time on a bi-weekly+ basis. But if it is so hard for 30 somethings because they do not want to be exposed to someone 10 years older than them, then buy a boat and staff it with 30 somethings... Quite frankly, I don't want 30 somethings on my boat because they tend to have families and wives and a delusion that they should be doing something "more interesting" and become flakes. The best crew is 22-27 and then 40+ if you want people to show up.

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Keyrocks,

 

Oh wow, an "owner". And not just one yacht, but two! Well excuse me... :lol:

 

If you are 28 then it's worse then I thought. You aren't an old guy, you are basically a 30 something out of touch with your peers.

Aren't you from Bayview according to your profile?! Why don't you start your own thread, I'm sure you tone is more palatable in the Detroit area...

 

SOTM

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Keyrocks,

 

Oh wow, an "owner". And not just one yacht, but two! Well excuse me... :lol:

 

If you are 28 then it's worse then I thought. You aren't an old guy, you are basically a 30 something out of touch with your peers.

Aren't you from Bayview according to your profile?! Why don't you start your own thread, I'm sure you tone is more palatable in the Detroit area...

 

SOTM

I keep my boat at Montrose, first year here with it. Did a few races, but mostly raced T10s this year. I'm quite interested upping the racing opportunities here in Chicago, that's why I'm here. Specifically, I'd like to see weeknight doublehanded racing (not combined with Wednesdays). Curious if any others out there might be interested.

 

Not sure what you mean by the out of touch - a good number of my peers race (on my boats, on their boats, on other people's boats)... and we've introduced lots of new folks to the sport over the years who have become devoted kool-aid drinkers too.

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.

Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

Your 30 something friends cant socialize with people older than them? Sound socially inept...

 

 

A 30 something may be capable of socializing with his or her grandparents and their friends but may just choose not to do so on a regular basis.

 

My crew ranges in age from 16-75, roughly 14 people in the pool (most in their 20s or 40s) and we have a pretty good time on a bi-weekly+ basis. But if it is so hard for 30 somethings because they do not want to be exposed to someone 10 years older than them, then buy a boat and staff it with 30 somethings... Quite frankly, I don't want 30 somethings on my boat because they tend to have families and wives and a delusion that they should be doing something "more interesting" and become flakes. The best crew is HOT CHICKS 22-27 and then SOON TO BE DIVORCED GUYS 40+ if you want people to show up.

 

 

Fixed it.

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Keyrocks,

 

Oh wow, an "owner". And not just one yacht, but two! Well excuse me... :lol:

 

If you are 28 then it's worse then I thought. You aren't an old guy, you are basically a 30 something out of touch with your peers.

Aren't you from Bayview according to your profile?! Why don't you start your own thread, I'm sure you tone is more palatable in the Detroit area...

 

SOTM

I keep my boat at Montrose, first year here with it. Did a few races, but mostly raced T10s this year. I'm quite interested upping the racing opportunities here in Chicago, that's why I'm here. Specifically, I'd like to see weeknight doublehanded racing (not combined with Wednesdays). Curious if any others out there might be interested.

 

Not sure what you mean by the out of touch - a good number of my peers race (on my boats, on their boats, on other people's boats)... and we've introduced lots of new folks to the sport over the years who have become devoted kool-aid drinkers too.

 

 

If you race out of Montrose then you are probably seeing a different club 'scene' to the other Chicago harbors. CCYC has cheaper beer, lower overhead and from what I can tell a 'younger' bar scene. In fact it's (to me at least) closer to what StayOutOfTheMiddle was suggesting it should be, than what he was complaining about.

 

But then I'm an old fart so what would I know.

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...I will add this per the Scuttlebutt article, there is a lack of a young crowd in the sailing scene and frankly it makes the social scene suck. The YC bars are not lively, Tri-State raft party scene was lame. I've just stepped back into the scene from a 7 year absence and noted boat count down and young sailors down. Makes it hard to introduce any of my friends to the scene as there is no social draw.

Maybe is the $$$$$ YC fees (except for CCYC which is affordable), but there isn't a young, fun crowd. Just an old, fun one. Doesn't bother me as I have known a lot of the old faces for well over a decade but try getting my 30 something friends come hangout at the YC bar. No chance...

Your 30 something friends cant socialize with people older than them? Sound socially inept...

 

 

A 30 something may be capable of socializing with his or her grandparents and their friends but may just choose not to do so on a regular basis.

 

My crew ranges in age from 16-75, roughly 14 people in the pool (most in their 20s or 40s) and we have a pretty good time on a bi-weekly+ basis. But if it is so hard for 30 somethings because they do not want to be exposed to someone 10 years older than them, then buy a boat and staff it with 30 somethings... Quite frankly, I don't want 30 somethings on my boat because they tend to have families and wives and a delusion that they should be doing something "more interesting" and become flakes. The best crew is HOT CHICKS 22-27 and then SOON TO BE DIVORCED GUYS 40+ if you want people to show up.

 

 

Fixed it.

 

+1

Nailed it, Mongo.

 

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Seems like there is something afoot in the Chicago scene - is it early cabin fever?

 

By Deirdre Martin, PHRF Fleet Captain of Southern Lake Michigan

What I have seen and been told….

A meeting was held recently regarding a new offer for a new association for sail racing in Chicago. The proposed new group would be Chicago Area Sail Racing Association (CASRA) which has been said to have been in the works since last November 2015, holding ‘secret’ meetings between a member of Columbia Yacht Club and Chicago Yacht Club. The meeting was apparently held to inform the Chicago area clubs that they (ColYC & CYC) were taking over and getting rid of Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation (LMSRF) and to solve supposed problems within Area III of LMSRF.

The offering seemed to demand participation with strict adherence to their new group and its guidelines which put ColYC and CYC in a position to control the group with the majority of votes as they were the largest clubs and that the smaller clubs, CCYC, BPYC and JPYC, would not have controlling interest. The three smaller clubs told them to go pound. Since the meeting, it has been said that ColYC and CYC would agree to each club having a vote but they don’t want to allow any fleet representation going forward.

After the meeting details had been divulged, LMSRF got wind and not only attended the October 2016 Area III Steering Committee meeting, they (Gordon Julius and Glenn McCarthy) took the meeting over to announce their intentions of disbanding Area III Steering Committee and replacing it with two new committees, Grand Prix and Grand Touring to be voted on later. Grand Prix would be much the same as racing in Chicago as we now know it and Grand Touring would be a new group of new racers from all walks who want to get involved in racing in Chicago. They also don’t want to allow any fleet representation just as CASRA, yet they very much want volunteers of owners and crew members to be on these committees and campaign for LMSRF Area III to increase participation. They want to do surveys and give the racers what they want in an attempt to get more boats to the starting lines. I am all for volunteers but a newbie crew member on a racing committee with no fleet representation is not what I call productive or enhancing.

Both associations seem to have similar ideas that any new, first year racers would not have to pay for memberships to US Sailing, LMSRF or even obtain a PHRF Certificate for that matter. CASRA would be offering PHRF racing with an ORR overlay and they would both assign a rating…which is not allowed under PHRF. Both committees boast that a club membership will be required to race.

There was another informal gathering this past week to get the clubs and fleets together to discuss options and attempt to make a decision of one over the other. Area III Steering Committee no longer exists so a choice is a necessity. Even though a representative from ColYC was present at this meeting and informed us that “ColYC has already decided that they are in bed with CASRA and CYC no matter what any of the other clubs do”…”it’s already a done deal”. Well, this statement isn’t true, AT ALL.

ColYC is still undecided as of 48 hours ago and they are very much leaning to LMSRF, NOT CASRA. Did I mention that CASRA stands for ‘Chicago Area’ - and they mean it. CASRA does not include Waukegan, Michigan City or St. Joe Yacht Clubs. These three clubs are staying with LMSRF. They didn’t have a choice of CASRA as they were excluded from the get go. All I see is divide and conquer at work.

What I have asked…

What happens to the Waukegan Race that almost 100 boats participate?
CASRA speaker said, it won’t be on the schedule and we don’t care. Waukegan doesn’t exist.
These freed up weekends will be replaced with weekend long races at ColYC just like doing away with Fran Byrne (my great uncle) and Chester Kuttner, to free up another weekend.

JPYC will do away with the third leg of the Tri-State unless another club picks up that leg.

What about the participation of St. Joe and Michigan City boats that participate in Chicago races?
CASRA speaker said, they can race here but their clubs aren’t part of this.

Since CYC hasn’t actively participated in Area III and sponsoring races recently, if ColYC partnered with CYC, Area III would lose one club to CASRA instead of losing 4 and excluding 3…it should be a strong consideration instead of feeling like they are obligated to join CASRA to keep some semblance of Chicago racing together.

Why would either of them not want fleet representation?
The clubs pay for the races, race committees and expenses of sponsoring races. The clubs should decide all actions.

Don’t the boat owners pay dues to the clubs and isn’t that money partially used to sponsor these races? So aren’t we racers paying for all of this with not only dues but the fees we pay to all of these organizations to race?
Aren’t the racers and their fleets considered in these decisions/races/rules?
Most clubs feel they should be making the decisions.

We are watching decades of tradition about to sail away…no pun intended.
Obviously, there are many opinions. My opinion is that you all need to reach out to your clubs TODAY! There is a meeting of CASRA scheduled for this coming Monday night and the clubs are supposed to decide your fate and the fate of Area III racing.

If you don’t voice your opinion now, your only option will be with your wallet when it comes time to race as to whether you participate in racing in Chicago for 2017. Let’s not wait, let your clubs hear from you.

Get on it people, speak your mind and be heard, fight for what you want.

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Although Area III was originally organized with the best of intentions, it has been in a death spiral for the last decade. Last time I checked, Yacht Clubs (and their staff and volunteers) run races. If your club runs a quality race or regatta, chances are good that you will have many boats on the starting line. Colors, Nood, Mac, Verve, Queen's Cup, You Gotta Regatta and local Wednesday Night racing are all examples of what is working in our current climate.

 

Perhaps going forward some of the smaller clubs that don't individually have the ability to pull of a Colors/Verve style event, might consider pooling their resources to offer something similar to what the larger clubs can do on their own.

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Oh the yachty drama...

Popcorn time!

Politics are the death of sailing. Jeez louise.

 

This sort of thing works better with a dictatorship than a democracy. Everybody's got an opinion (that needs to be silenced). Just pull in one direction, any direction will be fine.

 

+1. Lots of very well intended (often hard working) people, constantly pulling in different directions - while the decline continues. In all fairness, the challenges that face sailing as a pastime may be insurmountable - it's happening everywhere.

 

There have been dozens if not hundreds of "discussions" here on how to revive sailing. Yet there's never been anything close to a consensus. It's almost like the present state of affairs in politics, opposed views and no progress whatsoever...

 

And participation is so low on some events, they don't make sense to continue IMO. It's not at all surprising that some folks are inclined to act vs maintaining the status quo. Something needs to change, though I don't claim to know the "best way" forward. Too many representatives keep trying to bring back the 70's, that's not going to happen. Insanity is doing what you've always done and expecting different results...

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What I hear and have observed from racing in Chicago far too long is that clubs and their steering committee's organize races, run races, and celebrate (hopefully) their racing. With a lot of volunteers and RC's doing 90% of the legwork and regatta work. And, encouraging and promoting their regatta in the area and at all the clubs.

 

The dismantling of a dinosaur like LMSRF....not a bad thing in my opinion. I would hate for Chicago racing to become like Chicago politics but it has been leaning that way for some time. I often have a LMSRF rep or member at our fleet meetings, and to be honest,...our interest as a fleet wanes when it comes to what they have to offer. You supporters can go off on me about this issue, but there is no value in regattas that may or not be supported by 2 entities. We receive no scoring from them, our advertising dollars are not well spent, and we do not participate in their sponsored events, which is a decision based on fleet votes and participation.

 

Whether you are a member of a YC or not, when an event is held....show up and race and party! Simple as that.....Support them, talk to them,...I can get behind a club or organizing body easily knowing they are not fighting for attention from different angles.

 

Look at Kelly Slater, the guy is in his 40's in a sport that's organizing body has shifted and he just shows up and lays it down. Winning and participating is not in direct relationship to the organizers unless you enjoy holding grudges.

 

Organize early with your crew and choose....

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Organize early with your crew and choose....

 

 

^^^ FTW right here ^^^

 

Weather it is RYF, Area III, MORF, or a club hosting a specific annual regatta. Fleets should organize early and get the information out to their boat owners and crew. Here are the regattas we plan on doing in 2017. My ride sent a note out in September 2015 for a commitment for the 2016 season. Granted we were travelling but I knew what my commitment was going to be and the boat knew who was in so informed decisions could be made.

 

Now the Onus is on YC's and organizing bodies to get your schedule out ASAP and let the boats decide. In a year or three trends will develop and better scheduling can be met.

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Wow! I am amazed by how divisive this has become. A lot like the current Presidential contest.

 

I hope there is some room for compromise out here beyond who "owns" racing in Chicago. Most of us just want to go out and race on the weekends and don't care about who actually is running the races and who is taking credit for everything. Fast Laser is correct, we want quality racing and don't worry much about the rest.

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What I hear and have observed from racing in Chicago far too long is that clubs and their steering committee's organize races, run races, and celebrate (hopefully) their racing. With a lot of volunteers and RC's doing 90% of the legwork and regatta work. And, encouraging and promoting their regatta in the area and at all the clubs.

 

The dismantling of a dinosaur like LMSRF....

 

 

 

Just a minor correction... LMSRF was not dismantled... it was the Area III steering committee of LMSRF.

 

LMSRF itself still does good work. It give grants for youth sailing, education, sending members to regattas.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled trashing...

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What I hear and have observed from racing in Chicago far too long is that clubs and their steering committee's organize races, run races, and celebrate (hopefully) their racing. With a lot of volunteers and RC's doing 90% of the legwork and regatta work. And, encouraging and promoting their regatta in the area and at all the clubs.

 

The dismantling of a dinosaur like LMSRF....

 

Just a minor correction... LMSRF was not dismantled... it was the Area III steering committee of LMSRF.

 

LMSRF itself still does good work. It give grants for youth sailing, education, sending members to regattas.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled trashing...

Trashing led by a bloke who hasn't raced A3 in years and can't be arsed to get out of bed on a Saturday morning because there aren't enough boats racing anymore...

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There is a long history in Chicago of changing "Chicago Area" racing organizations (LMYA, CYA, LMSRF, Area III and other smaller fleets and organizations that have come and gone). So I do not really care about which "organization" is in charge. However, I can say, that balkanization of the various clubs and disintegration of cooperation among all of the clubs, including MORF and the smaller brick and mortar clubs will not do anything for participation. At the moment I have less "skin in the game" than I used to (I am looking for a ride for next year) but as an owner/participant for 35 years my boats made (if you count Wednesday nights) 50 to 60 races a summer. That's a lot of entry fees. It would not have been possible if there had not been some organization helping all of the clubs and other organizing authorities to coordinate their schedules. Our focus should be participation, new entrants. You will not get that by internecine warfare.

 

Robin

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There is a long history in Chicago of changing "Chicago Area" racing organizations (LMYA, CYA, LMSRF, Area III and other smaller fleets and organizations that have come and gone). So I do not really care about which "organization" is in charge. However, I can say, that balkanization of the various clubs and disintegration of cooperation among all of the clubs, including MORF and the smaller brick and mortar clubs will not do anything for participation. At the moment I have less "skin in the game" than I used to (I am looking for a ride for next year) but as an owner/participant for 35 years my boats made (if you count Wednesday nights) 50 to 60 races a summer. That's a lot of entry fees. It would not have been possible if there had not been some organization helping all of the clubs and other organizing authorities to coordinate their schedules. Our focus should be participation, new entrants. You will not get that by internecine warfare.

 

Robin

 

It sounds like a lot of people have identified the same root cause, how is it rectified?

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There is a long history in Chicago of changing "Chicago Area" racing organizations (LMYA, CYA, LMSRF, Area III and other smaller fleets and organizations that have come and gone). So I do not really care about which "organization" is in charge. However, I can say, that balkanization of the various clubs and disintegration of cooperation among all of the clubs, including MORF and the smaller brick and mortar clubs will not do anything for participation. At the moment I have less "skin in the game" than I used to (I am looking for a ride for next year) but as an owner/participant for 35 years my boats made (if you count Wednesday nights) 50 to 60 races a summer. That's a lot of entry fees. It would not have been possible if there had not been some organization helping all of the clubs and other organizing authorities to coordinate their schedules. Our focus should be participation, new entrants. You will not get that by internecine warfare.

 

Robin

Very well said.

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There is a long history in Chicago of changing "Chicago Area" racing organizations (LMYA, CYA, LMSRF, Area III and other smaller fleets and organizations that have come and gone). So I do not really care about which "organization" is in charge. However, I can say, that balkanization of the various clubs and disintegration of cooperation among all of the clubs, including MORF and the smaller brick and mortar clubs will not do anything for participation. At the moment I have less "skin in the game" than I used to (I am looking for a ride for next year) but as an owner/participant for 35 years my boats made (if you count Wednesday nights) 50 to 60 races a summer. That's a lot of entry fees. It would not have been possible if there had not been some organization helping all of the clubs and other organizing authorities to coordinate their schedules. Our focus should be participation, new entrants. You will not get that by internecine warfare.

 

Robin

Very well said.

 

 

 

Robin - I agree that there seems to be little interest in cooperation among the clubs and other organizations who support sailing in Chicago. Much of this has to be attributed to their declining membership rolls and the desire of each group to protect their own business. I am not sure how to get these groups to work together but if it does not happen soon we will have many years with basically a few regattas (NOOD, Verve and the Mackinac Race) and little else.

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Do the four big players in town ever meet for a joint racing meeting? CYC, Columbia, Burnham, and CCYC.... (Missing anyone?)

My guess is those clubs have 95% of the race boats. It makes a lot of sense that those four race chair persons to get together on a quarterly basis and align schedules and events.

More than anything else, this has to have the biggest impact on number of boats on the line, period.

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Robin - I agree that there seems to be little interest in cooperation among the clubs and other organizations who support sailing in Chicago. Much of this has to be attributed to their declining membership rolls and the desire of each group to protect their own business. I am not sure how to get these groups to work together but if it does not happen soon we will have many years with basically a few regattas (NOOD, Verve and the Mackinac Race) and little else.

 

 

Not sure about the rest of the clubs but, ColYC is at a record high membership count right now. It's not a lack of membership, just a lack of people wanting to race.

 

One thing that could help is having a cruising spin div. for every race day/regatta and have a long distance course for them. Many cruiser boats have bought kites for the MAC and only get to use them for that race. If they had the opportunity to use them more, that would help the attendance numbers. Also, as has happened for years, here and everywhere, these cruising racers are the ones that then graduate to race boats in PHRF and OD fleets. I wonder how many of the long distance racers of the Verve and NOOD, would like to race on sunday too? Area III limits Cruising Spin to LOA <40' and a PHRF of >99, why is that? Several boats in the MAC are bigger or faster than that, why not let them race? If we need 2 sections, great!

 

Another thing that is hurting the Chicago PHRF fleet is the fact that a small OD fleet can get a section for a race. Look at the CYC Sheldon Clark, the Special SIs read as follows:

 

1.5 CLASS BREAKS

One Design Fleets A minimum of five bona fide entries must be received by Tuesday, September 13 for a one-design fleet to be recognized for the offshore racing area. If this requirement is not met, the organizing authority will assign these boats to an appropriate PHRF section.

 

For some reason. I have no idea why, the CYC OA/RC ignored their own Special SIs and gave starts and finishes for 2 J109s, 3 J111s and 4 Ben 36.7s. If the rules were followed, there would have been a 6 boat PHRF 3 section, and PHRF 2 would have grown from 3 to 6 boats. I would contend that having 2 - 6 boat sections is more competitive than 4 sections for the same 12 boats. This should be the standard practice for all Chicago area racing.

 

Not to mention that is used to be the case that unless you had a certain number of boats in a section you wouldn't get any prizes. I could be wrong but, in the past, I remember that no Fleet could have a section without 8 boats, we even needed, back then, to put a ghost entry in to get our section. it all came down to money, if we gave them enough money, they would give us a section. There were, and should be again, limits to the prizes for smaller fleets, if you had less than 3 boats out there, no prizes, 3-5 boats, just 1st place; 6-8 1st and 2nd; 9-11 1,2,3; and then for large fleets, give them more. There used to be 4th and 5th place MAC flags for big fleets.

 

I'm sure the OD fleets hate this concept however, the strong OD fleets don't usually have this issue. the others just need to make sure their fleet shows up.

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Do the four big players in town ever meet for a joint racing meeting? CYC, Columbia, Burnham, and CCYC.... (Missing anyone?)

My guess is those clubs have 95% of the race boats. It makes a lot of sense that those four race chair persons to get together on a quarterly basis and align schedules and events.

More than anything else, this has to have the biggest impact on number of boats on the line, period.

I think it was the Area III steering committee of LMSRF that actually did this, though Chicago YC didn't really host A3 races the last several years.

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Area III has spend a ton of time working on their website.

^

 

^

That is funny.

 

 

 

Thanks! You are the only one who picked up on my humor. :lol:

I got it. Sometimes you have to use the [/sarcasm] notation...

 

 

 

What Area III has a website? I think it was last updated about 10 years ago.

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Interesting to see the discussions around increasing participation as I am returning to Chicago after time abroad and my old ride has gone south to retirement. As an "under 30," the time commitment and costs can be problematic. From the suburbs, parking gets expensive, traffic sucks, and Metra often can't get you to the harbor early enough. Unfortunately, these points aren't easily solved by the sailing community.

 

I'm curious if any of the yacht clubs are doing anything to encourage younger member participation from a social aspect. At Royal Thames Yacht Club in London, they have an active Younger Members program. The program engages the younger members to race and be part of the club with frequent Younger Members events. Does this exist at any of the clubs?

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Area III has spend a ton of time working on their website.

^

 

^

That is funny.

 

This has to be the quote of the decade! :)

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Oh dear, what a rant.... I truly hope your kids where in the other room as you read my last posting aloud.

 

 

 

In my typical in-eloquent ways, I'm simply saying that the YC's are (as usual) way out of touch. Should they change, or should they stick with what appears to be their modus operandi; act like a broken clock and wait for the trends to swing back around, putting them on the correct time....

Fuck you dude..you old farts have no clue...

 

You have no idea how stressful it is for us 30 somethings to get to the marina for a 8.30 Saturday boat call, when we have late night Fridays at the uptown patio piano bar / tango party, early morning hot yoga and the beach volley ball league keeps getting in the way, plus we haven't raced in years and can't be arsed to get out of bed on Sats for a boat race, when the boat counts are so low compared to when I was captain cool in chi town...

 

and the yachtie clubs aren't catering to us either, it's too expensive to be a non member, they won't give us free parking or bus us to the marina from Bucktown, and they either want us to do windward/leeward or port to port...what's up with that?

 

and the rbo's don't get it either, only buying 3dls every other year, expecting us to sail without paying per diem, keeping us out on the water after two pm, when we should be getting into our first Pimms of the day, and providing only shit meat based sammies and rum drinks without limes...

 

And the schedule is fucked up too, it only comes out in March, so how are we supposed to budget our time, and seriously wtf is up with the A3 website..I could make it better in a heartbeat if I didn't have to go right now and get a pumpkin latte...

 

And I suspect blubs...you have colour coordinated boat shoes to go with that blazer...wanker..

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There is a meeting of CASRA scheduled for this coming Monday night and the clubs are supposed to decide your fate and the fate of Area III racing.

That would have been this past Monday, I wonder if there is any new info? I didn't find anything on ANY related online communication sites.
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Oh dear, what a rant.... I truly hope your kids where in the other room as you read my last posting aloud.

 

 

 

In my typical in-eloquent ways, I'm simply saying that the YC's are (as usual) way out of touch. Should they change, or should they stick with what appears to be their modus operandi; act like a broken clock and wait for the trends to swing back around, putting them on the correct time....

Fuck you dude..you old farts have no clue...

 

You have no idea how stressful it is for us 30 somethings to get to the marina for a 8.30 Saturday boat call, when we have late night Fridays at the uptown patio piano bar / tango party, early morning hot yoga and the beach volley ball league keeps getting in the way, plus we haven't raced in years and can't be arsed to get out of bed on Sats for a boat race, when the boat counts are so low compared to when I was captain cool in chi town...

 

and the yachtie clubs aren't catering to us either, it's too expensive to be a non member, they won't give us free parking or bus us to the marina from Bucktown, and they either want us to do windward/leeward or port to port...what's up with that?

 

and the rbo's don't get it either, only buying 3dls every other year, expecting us to sail without paying per diem, keeping us out on the water after two pm, when we should be getting into our first Pimms of the day, and providing only shit meat based sammies and rum drinks without limes...

 

And the schedule is fucked up too, it only comes out in March, so how are we supposed to budget our time, and seriously wtf is up with the A3 website..I could make it better in a heartbeat if I didn't have to go right now and get a pumpkin latte...

 

And I suspect blubs...you have colour coordinated boat shoes to go with that blazer...wanker..

 

 

The piano bar / tango party or beach volley ball probably has a better male-female ratio. And hot yoga probably has hot chicks in yoga pants - that would get me out of bed. While the under 30 demographic is likely only to be crew vs. boat owners, it is important to understand what sailing is competing with for the attention of the crew.

 

I've always found the per-diem route to be pretty shitty, but as crew, it will be a cold day in Hell before I show up to the boat without beer, whiskey, or rum to share. I love the actual racing, but damn, getting back to the dock, cracking some beers and passing the bottle with ZZ Top playing is a pretty good time.

 

IMHO making racing in Chicago more social across age ranges will help get more boats with crew on the line on a consistent basis.

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There is a meeting of CASRA scheduled for this coming Monday night and the clubs are supposed to decide your fate and the fate of Area III racing.

That would have been this past Monday, I wonder if there is any new info? I didn't find anything on ANY related online communication sites.

 

 

Communication? That would be novel

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Lots of wind here and much of it accurate with great suggestions to remedy scene that is well off pace from the early 2000's glory days...

 

In reality though, if you look at YC membership, what percentage are racers, vs. cruisers and power boats? I'd guess less than 1/3rd are racers. With that said, a private club has no interest in opening the doors or cutting prices to get rowdy 20 - 30 somethings in to support less than 1/3 of it's members...

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Lots of wind here and much of it accurate with great suggestions to remedy scene that is well off pace from the early 2000's glory days...

 

In reality though, if you look at YC membership, what percentage are racers, vs. cruisers and power boats? I'd guess less than 1/3rd are racers. With that said, a private club has no interest in opening the doors or cutting prices to get rowdy 20 - 30 somethings in to support less than 1/3 of it's members...

 

I probably shouldn't be saying this since I'm a member of a different club... but Corinthian YC seems to do a pretty decent job of encouraging 30 somethings. Their Vanguard fleet seems to be vibrant, beer and drinks are the cheapest of any, and their membership fee is reasonable.

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Interesting to see the discussions around increasing participation as I am returning to Chicago after time abroad and my old ride has gone south to retirement. As an "under 30," the time commitment and costs can be problematic. From the suburbs, parking gets expensive, traffic sucks, and Metra often can't get you to the harbor early enough. Unfortunately, these points aren't easily solved by the sailing community.

 

I'm curious if any of the yacht clubs are doing anything to encourage younger member participation from a social aspect. At Royal Thames Yacht Club in London, they have an active Younger Members program. The program engages the younger members to race and be part of the club with frequent Younger Members events. Does this exist at any of the clubs?

CYC has an active group of 30 and unders, though some of us are starting to get out of that bracket. It's centered around the Associates Comittee. It's primary social based, but most race as crew on boats at all sizes in the fleet, a few have their own boats, some are powerboaters, and others are more active with CYC's sonars and related racing series. There are about 20 core people with another 30-40 involved. We stared with 12, 8 years ago.

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What is the big, grey cruiser/racer on the North wall at DuSable? I drive by on LSD everyday and see it. It's got a nice plumb transom and lookes very new and modern.

You take LSD everyday, and drive?. Dude. You are a hard core party animal

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Lots of wind here and much of it accurate with great suggestions to remedy scene that is well off pace from the early 2000's glory days...

 

In reality though, if you look at YC membership, what percentage are racers, vs. cruisers and power boats? I'd guess less than 1/3rd are racers. With that said, a private club has no interest in opening the doors or cutting prices to get rowdy 20 - 30 somethings in to support less than 1/3 of it's members...

 

I probably shouldn't be saying this since I'm a member of a different club... but Corinthian YC seems to do a pretty decent job of encouraging 30 somethings. Their Vanguard fleet seems to be vibrant, beer and drinks are the cheapest of any, and their membership fee is reasonable.

 

Came here to say this... CCYC seems to have this equation partially figured out.

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Yes partially, but only partially. I used to be a member but let it slide after I sold my V15.

Was hard to get my non-sailing buddies to go down there even with the cheap drinks. With that said, even sailing buddies wouldn't meet there except for after sailing on Wed and Thurs (V15s) nights...

 

Doesn't have the same draw as shinny city bars. Might just be the sausage fest factor, but isn't that all things sailing?! :lol:

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Lots of wind here and much of it accurate with great suggestions to remedy scene that is well off pace from the early 2000's glory days...

 

In reality though, if you look at YC membership, what percentage are racers, vs. cruisers and power boats? I'd guess less than 1/3rd are racers. With that said, a private club has no interest in opening the doors or cutting prices to get rowdy 20 - 30 somethings in to support less than 1/3 of it's members...

 

I guess the notion that 20-30 somethings are always rowdy doesn't help the cause. I think most 20-30 somethings either left the rowdiness at the frat house or at the bare minimum have the capacity to know how to turn it off when it's not appropriate. The unemployed drunks who lack that skill probably can't afford the membership dues.

 

 

Lots of wind here and much of it accurate with great suggestions to remedy scene that is well off pace from the early 2000's glory days...

 

In reality though, if you look at YC membership, what percentage are racers, vs. cruisers and power boats? I'd guess less than 1/3rd are racers. With that said, a private club has no interest in opening the doors or cutting prices to get rowdy 20 - 30 somethings in to support less than 1/3 of it's members...

 

I probably shouldn't be saying this since I'm a member of a different club... but Corinthian YC seems to do a pretty decent job of encouraging 30 somethings. Their Vanguard fleet seems to be vibrant, beer and drinks are the cheapest of any, and their membership fee is reasonable.

 

 

Interesting to see Corinthian YC mentioned multiple times. What is the keelboat scene like up at Montrose?

 

 

Interesting to see the discussions around increasing participation as I am returning to Chicago after time abroad and my old ride has gone south to retirement. As an "under 30," the time commitment and costs can be problematic. From the suburbs, parking gets expensive, traffic sucks, and Metra often can't get you to the harbor early enough. Unfortunately, these points aren't easily solved by the sailing community.

 

I'm curious if any of the yacht clubs are doing anything to encourage younger member participation from a social aspect. At Royal Thames Yacht Club in London, they have an active Younger Members program. The program engages the younger members to race and be part of the club with frequent Younger Members events. Does this exist at any of the clubs?

CYC has an active group of 30 and unders, though some of us are starting to get out of that bracket. It's centered around the Associates Comittee. It's primary social based, but most race as crew on boats at all sizes in the fleet, a few have their own boats, some are powerboaters, and others are more active with CYC's sonars and related racing series. There are about 20 core people with another 30-40 involved. We stared with 12, 8 years ago.

 

 

I'd be keen to hear more about CYC's Associates Committee as I don't see much about it on the CYC website. Is it a social group, or are there other functions?

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I always wondered about the outreach as well.

 

Why don't the Yacht Clubs CYC, CCYC, and Columbia set up a "Ask me about sailing" booth at some of the street fests around. Fleets/Boats need crew, YC's need members. Most people I talk to about sailing think it is out of reach and too expensive. Chat up crewing opportunities, you don't need a boat etc.

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12345.... hit the nail on the head there with booth at St Fests. There is a lot of opportunity to tap into a young crowd with disposable income.

 

Who has been to the Pink Pony party at Belmont in recent years? It's def a more diverse scene rather than Mount Gay hat wearing crowd. Guess what? It's also more fun and not 95% sausage fest. Whatever the secret sauce / getting the word out activity is going on there should be duplicated. I heard it had something to do with the powerboat scene at the Boat Show but not certain...

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PS, Blubberboy... your suggestion about high end marketing firms, while it would work, is obviously not practical from a budgetary stand point. This is about pushing the YC to a young crowd, not selling Coke-Cola.

That's why I think 12345 idea is very smart. Young, local, crowd..... Taste of Lincoln Park, Old Town Wine Fest, and Retro on Roscoe 2017. Do it!

 

 

I wonder if the powers that be at the clubs in town read the forum? I'd hate to see this brainstorm going to waist....

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12345.... hit the nail on the head there with booth at St Fests. There is a lot of opportunity to tap into a young crowd with disposable income.

 

Who has been to the Pink Pony party at Belmont in recent years? It's def a more diverse scene rather than Mount Gay hat wearing crowd. Guess what? It's also more fun and not 95% sausage fest. Whatever the secret sauce / getting the word out activity is going on there should be duplicated. I heard it had something to do with the powerboat scene at the Boat Show but not certain...

As I understand it, the uptick in fun at the Pink Pony party coincides with the CYC Associates Committee taking it over.

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Most of us deal in the for-profit world that have no grates holding us back.

 

When it comes to the not-for-profit world (501c4 or 501c7) there are a variety of restrictions. As a "member" organization, yacht clubs are required to grow through organic growth, such as members inviting their friends into membership. The IRS does not allow these organizations to advertise membership, no "Join today and get 4 free tires for your car!" Having a booth at the boat show is explaining to the public how they benefit the public, and at that time they are making "new friends." They invite their "new friends" to an open house to build the relationship stronger and then invite them to join the club. And it still takes a member sponsor to make the nomination to membership. You just won't have a sales department bringing in new members if you want to stay a not-for-profit.

 

Now something different, charities 501c3 don't have those restrictions. They can sell memberships, and they can market to the public in general as long as it supports their mission and their membership.

 

Add these thoughts to sales and marketing in your concepts.

PS, Blubberboy... your suggestion about high end marketing firms, while it would work, is obviously not practical from a budgetary stand point. This is about pushing the YC to a young crowd, not selling Coke-Cola.

That's why I think 12345 idea is very smart. Young, local, crowd..... Taste of Lincoln Park, Old Town Wine Fest, and Retro on Roscoe 2017. Do it!

 

 

I wonder if the powers that be at the clubs in town read the forum? I'd hate to see this brainstorm going to waist....

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I always wondered about the outreach as well.

 

Why don't the Yacht Clubs CYC, CCYC, and Columbia set up a "Ask me about sailing" booth at some of the street fests around. Fleets/Boats need crew, YC's need members. Most people I talk to about sailing think it is out of reach and too expensive. Chat up crewing opportunities, you don't need a boat etc.

+1

 

I'll never forget my first beercan (and first time racing, ever): coming in, I asked a fellow crewmember if we owed any money to the boat owner. I was first laughed at, then had explained to me that my payment should come in the form of hard work and a good attitude. If I brought some beer to share with everyone else, well all the much better. I couldn't believe it: I just got to enjoy a kickass sailboat race against the backdrop of the skyline during a sunset and all I had to provide was some beer?

 

How many other people know that? Get that story out there.

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stayoutofthemiddle and olshitsky,

 

I write a blog intended for people who don't sail and would like to give it a try on Lake Michigan. When I tried to write an article about getting the general public into beer can racing, I discussed this with some clubs. Their answer was a short, "No."

 

The longer answer was, "When our members invite people (co-workers, neighbors, friends, family) there is a connection, if those guests cause a problem, we can track them down. We are not in the business of giving out free boat rides. But you inviting the general public to our private member club, these folks cause any problem, we have no idea how to track them down. Don't do it, you don't have our permission."

 

With that said, both CCYC, CYC and ColYC have very nice Crew Finder sections on their websites. This is not an open invitation by clubs to the public, this is a connection from the public to the members of the clubs who are looking for crew. The owners then have made the connection, and have at least an email address and/or phone number to track these people down. I think it is imperative that all clubs add this service to their members onto their websites.

 

I have written about these crew finder websites in a blog piece before, that just discussed that you can go sailing for free and learn by trial and error. It didn't have the focus at all on Beer Can Racing. I think we all see the opportunity that a club has a sign at their gates on Wednesday nights "line up here to crew" and volunteers steer those people to boats willing to take the general public out. This is a good strategy. but then takes dedicated volunteers to make it happen.

 

 

Glenn, thanks for the background. I didn't realize there were marketing restrictions.
I would say that 12345's idea about Booth at Street Fest could easily be argued as the same "goal" as a Booth at the Boat Show though... "Outreach".

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