kimbottles 825 Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Ishmael said: His cheque will probably bounce too. I don't really see you as either Lord or Lady Kim. Neither do I ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 10:47 PM, kimbottles said: Electric winch kits being added to the aft cockpit primaries by my pal Jeff at CSR. i hope that the newly-powered winches got some use this year, despite the pandemic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 hours ago, TwoLegged said: i hope that the newly-powered winches got some use this year, despite the pandemic. Nope, I have been completely isolated and consumed with Cancer treatments this year and only visit FRANCIS on her mooring every week or so to run the engine and her diesel furnace. I am now finally finished with Chemo and Radiation and starting Hormone Therapy. I will need to regain my energy and leave some of the side effects behind before I can take FRANCIS out single handed. Given my situation I can not have crew aboard during these times. Hopefully I will get her out in the next couple months. I really miss sailing. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,414 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Sorry to hear that, Kim, but glad your treatment is progressing. I hope you get well soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
py26129 176 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 +1 I hope you get better fast and that 2021 turns out to be a great year for you and yours. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 1,370 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Wow. Had no idea. Hope you feel better soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Boater 14 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I am glad to hear you are through the first two parts of your treatment. I trust 2021 will be better than 2020 and that your cancer and the covid-19 pandemic will become fading memories. I would think that plenty of sailing on FRANCIS would be a prescribed therapy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bugsy 699 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Wishing you fair winds and following seas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 @kimbottles, I am very sorry to hear that you have been ill. I had no idea. Hope that you are making a full recovery, and that some sailing therapy is on the agenda soon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rasputin22 3,492 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Hi Kim, Sorry to hear you are still being put through the wringer! I have a friend that would love to help you crew on FRANCIS, he has time on his hands now that Christmas is over... Happy Holidays! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Panoramix 1,776 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 @kimbottles, I am so sorry to read this, I wish you a full recovery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,548 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Keep on keepin' on, Kim. Frankie will wait for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 Thanks everyone at least it is not COVID! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anomaly2 108 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, kimbottles said: Thanks everyone at least it is not COVID! Ouch! Kick a guy while he's down... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Anomaly2 said: Ouch! Kick a guy while he's down... I didn’t realize you were going public Covie. Glad you are recovering, life would be so boring without you. Wish we were located closer so we could take FRANCIS out for a sail together. Maybe next summer?? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anomaly2 108 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, kimbottles said: Maybe next summer?? We can only hope Toasty Wait a sec, I'm going to edit this to add something: Fuck— the guy whose skin is falling off, has a scar that would frighten a hardened criminal, and has consumed copious amounts of “therapeutic” poisons for months says “at least it’s not Covid” and I’m supposed to stay silent? Or just step in front of a speeding bus... "At least it’s not Covid"— I’m going to remember this! (if I live) Edited December 30, 2020 by Anomaly2 getting even Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Anomaly2 said: We can only hope Toasty Wait a sec, I'm going to edit this to add something: Fuck— the guy whose skin is falling off, has a scar that would frighten a hardened criminal, and has consumed copious amounts of “therapeutic” poisons for months says “at least it’s not Covid” and I’m supposed to stay silent? Or just step in front of a speeding bus... "At least it’s not Covid"— I’m going to remember this! (if I live) Don’t panic anyone, Anomaly2 and I are just roasting each other as we often do in our private communications. In reality we are pals, brought together by Cruising Anarchy. (At least I think we are pals....) However SWMBO was quick to take his side as he is correct about the insane treatments (and side effects) I have been experiencing these last ten months or so. I was diagnosed in late January and just finished the radiation in late Nov. But I will say, I kind of like my scar. Bob Perry and I have decided to call it the Stigmata of Robert the Bruś (an English Sword Slash left over from the 1314 Battle of Bannockburn.) (Isolation gives a guy way too much idle time to dream shit up. At least that’s what our son Derek thinks.) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,414 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, kimbottles said: Don’t panic anyone, Anomaly2 and I are just roasting each other as we often do in our private communications. In reality we are pals, brought together by Cruising Anarchy. (At least I think we are pals....) However SWMBO was quick to take his side as he is correct about the insane treatments (and side effects) I have been experiencing these last ten months or so. I was diagnosed in late January and just finished the radiation in late Nov. But I will say, I kind of like my scar. Bob Perry and I have decided to call it the Stigmata of Robert the Bruś (an English Sword Slash left over from the 1314 Battle of Bannockburn.) (Isolation gives a guy way too much idle time to dream shit up. At least that’s what our son Derek thinks.) You know the rules, Kim. Pics or it didn't happen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, IStream said: You know the rules, Kim. Pics or it didn't happen. You really want to pollute the SLIVER/FRANKIE thread with gruesome pictures of my surgery/chemo/radiation side effects? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 1,007 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I think we just all trying to make sure, in those quiet times when we're talking to the big guy upstairs, that we are putting in the right words and thoughts for you...and for all the other folks here on SA for whom such words might help in some small way... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, Crash said: I think we just all trying to make sure, in those quiet times when we're talking to the big guy upstairs, that we are putting in the right words and thoughts for you...and for all the other folks here on SA for whom such words might help in some small way... Thank you, I appreciate that kind gesture. Hopefully I will be able to post a picture of FRANKIE sailing sometime in early 2021. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,414 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, kimbottles said: You really want to pollute the SLIVER/FRANKIE thread with gruesome pictures of my surgery/chemo/radiation side effects? Just giving you a bit of a hard time, Kim. I lost two good friends to cancer last week and I'm very pleased to hear that you're on the mend. Stay safe, get through your treatment, get that vaccine, and I hope we can rendezvous this summer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, IStream said: Just giving you a bit of a hard time, Kim. I lost two good friends to cancer last week and I'm very pleased to hear that you're on the mend. Stay safe, get through your treatment, get that vaccine, and I hope we can rendezvous this summer. I would very much like to have you back in Blakely Harbor in 2021. (I might even show you the pictures privately.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,414 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I don't need to see the pictures but I will definitely look forward to seeing you in Blakely Harbor. I can't speak for the teens, but I will probably still be able to talk my little one into coming. She's not *quite* gone over to the dark side of teendom yet... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 Took FRANKIE over to Shilshole today and turned her over to Green Card for some love and attention. I towed my Hadlock 23 Skiff behind so I had a way to get back home. It was strange watching no wake off of FRANKIE and plenty of wake off the skiff. 13 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sculpin 230 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Feeling better? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bull City 2,580 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, kimbottles said: It was strange watching no wake off of FRANKIE and plenty of wake off the skiff. Nothing moves in the water like a slippery, skinny sailboat, except a fish. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 49 minutes ago, sculpin said: Feeling better? Thank you for asking, but the road back appears to be quite long. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 39 minutes ago, Bull City said: Nothing moves in the water like a slippery, skinny sailboat, except a fish. I am a true believer in long, skinny, light when it comes to sailboats. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,414 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, kimbottles said: Thank you for asking, but the road back appears to be quite long. Hang in there, Kim. You've got lots of people pulling for you and a lot of locals like me who are happy to help with anything you need. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, IStream said: Hang in there, Kim. You've got lots of people pulling for you and a lot of locals like me who are happy to help with anything you need. Thanks Streamer, I appreciate your comments and look forward to seeing you again in 2021. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Green Card 8 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, kimbottles said: Took FRANKIE over to Shilshole today and turned her over to Green Card for some love and attention. I towed my Hadlock 23 Skiff behind so I had a way to get back home. It was strange watching no wake off of FRANKIE and plenty of wake off the skiff. You'll be happy to know along with getting tied up before you got home, there was time for the guys at the Locks to all come out and say, "that's what a boat is supposed to look like." 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Green Card said: You'll be happy to know along with getting tied up before you got home, there was time for the guys at the Locks to all come out and say, "that's what a boat is supposed to look like." She is easy on the eyes in my view. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bugsy 699 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 12 hours ago, kimbottles said: Thank you for asking, but the road back appears to be quite long. I won't pretend to speak for others, but there is a huge worldwide community that wishes only the best for you. You have brought so much to us, I think all of us would do anything for you. I hope that thought helps you along the road, even a little bit. 12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Bugsy said: I won't pretend to speak for others, but there is a huge worldwide community that wishes only the best for you. You have brought so much to us, I think all of us would do anything for you. I hope that thought helps you along the road, even a little bit. Thank you, I appreciate the support. The long term looks OK, I expect to recover to sailing later this year. The cancer appears to be under control, the side effects should subside over time. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 Nice look at her lines thanks to a photo from Green Card 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 622 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Still spins my head every time I see a picture, just trying to sort out which end is the bow! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,557 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 37 minutes ago, kimbottles said: Nice look at her lines thanks to a photo from Green Card I didn't realize you had a canard on Frankie. Oh, wait... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 Even Bob and I get confused sometimes. Not a surprise as FRANKIE’s stern was inspired by Laurie Davidson’s Black Magic’s bow...... (Laurie checking out FRANKIE’s half model in Bob’s office. That was a fun day!!) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, kimbottles said: Even Bob and I get confused sometimes. Not a surprise as FRANKIE’s stern was inspired by Laurie Davidson’s Black Magic’s bow...... Actually, from your photo above, I can see the bow-ness of the stern better than ever 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 The stern sure works well, even when we start hitting mid double digit speed she doesn’t squat and the wake is very minimal. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, kimbottles said: The stern sure works well, even when we start hitting mid double digit speed she doesn’t squat and the wake is very minimal. That's part of the genius of the design. It looks a lot like a bow, but it works very well as a stern Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airwick 245 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 hours ago, TwoLegged said: Actually, from your photo above, I can see the bow-ness of the stern better than ever So you're saying it's basically a proa in disguise... or is it a gyrocopter? I'm confused... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathystuff 451 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Airwick said: I'm confused... So am I. Why is the bern where the stow should be? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Airwick said: So you're saying it's basically a proa in disguise... or is it a gyrocopter? I'm confused... There's a thought: has anyone ever made a monohull proa? Symmetrical main hull like a proa, with a shunting rig, but a ballast keel instead of an outrigger. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Airwick said: So you're saying it's basically a proa in disguise... or is it a gyrocopter? I'm confused... Yeah, she confuses me too, but I love her. (I am just glad Bob lets me take care of her for him.) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: There's a thought: has anyone ever made a monohull proa? Symmetrical main hull like a proa, with a shunting rig, but a ballast keel instead of an outrigger. FRANKIE is not symmetrical, her stern is fuller than her bow. You can kind of see the slight difference in these two pictures. (Hint, the skiff is facing the same way that FRANKIE is facing.) Wouldn’t your idea make it hard for mast placement? And which way would you fair the keel per NACA sections? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathystuff 451 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: There's a thought: has anyone ever made a monohull proa? Symmetrical main hull like a proa, with a shunting rig, but a ballast keel instead of an outrigger. A danish (I think) guy build models like that. I find it quite intriguing in theory. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, kimbottles said: FRANKIE is not symmetrical, her stern is fuller than her bow. You can kind of see the slight difference in these two pictures. (Hint, the skiff is facing the same way that FRANKIE is facing.) Wouldn’t your idea make it hard for mast placement? And which way would you fair the keel per NACA sections? Yes, I know that part of the genius of Frankie is that she looks much more symmetrical than she is ... so she avoids all the pitfalls of genuine symmetry. I hadn't thought through the notion of what a monoproa would look like. It was just an off-the-cuff idea. I can't see any reason to do it, but wondered if anyone had tried it. I guess that the mast arrangement could be like Jzerro: central, with a headsail at each end, with only the bow sail in use. Keel would be more problematic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: Yes, I know that part of the genius of Frankie is that she looks much more symmetrical than she is ... so she avoids all the pitfalls of genuine symmetry. I hadn't thought through the notion of what a monoproa would look like. It was just an off-the-cuff idea. I can't see any reason to do it, but wondered if anyone had tried it. I guess that the mast arrangement could be like Jzerro: central, with a headsail at each end, with only the bow sail in use. Keel would be more problematic. Paging Russell Brown, if anyone could figure it out he could. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathystuff 451 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: I can't see any reason to do it, but wondered if anyone had tried it. In theory it could combine a decent amount of form stability (from a wide leeward side) with a high l/b (while heeled) and self righting. Pays the price of shunting, but that's still a nice combination to have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sculpin 230 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Two comments... When she's out of the water you can tell front from back by looking at the keel, only a fool would have the bulb lead the fin and Kim isn't a fool. And secondly, she is symmetrical where it counts, no offset companionway... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, sculpin said: When she's out of the water you can tell front from back by looking at the keel, only a fool would have the bulb lead the fin and Kim isn't a fool. Sadly, a high proportion of new designs do have the bulb leading the fin. (OK, the torpedo keel trails the fin too, but there is stuff ahead of the fin). Seems daft to me, but it does mean that a back-to-front keel isn't as wacky as it should be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathystuff 451 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 3 hours ago, mathystuff said: In theory it could combine a decent amount of form stability (from a wide leeward side) with a high l/b (while heeled) and self righting. Pays the price of shunting, but that's still a nice combination to have. And by leeward I mean windward. /facepalm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ProaSailor 673 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 14 hours ago, TwoLegged said: There's a thought: has anyone ever made a monohull proa? Symmetrical main hull like a proa, with a shunting rig, but a ballast keel instead of an outrigger. Weatherwax may never sail again, May 10, 2009 https://www.pressrepublican.com/news/local_news/weatherwax-may-never-sail-again/article_c7af6e88-d4f9-5e97-8490-250fb11fadb0.html Lake Placid/Essex County (New York) Visitor's Bureau - Crown Point, New York 50' Sail Ferry Weatherwax http://www.douglasbrooksboatbuilding.com/ferry.html 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Panoramix 1,776 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 16 hours ago, TwoLegged said: Sadly, a high proportion of new designs do have the bulb leading the fin. (OK, the torpedo keel trails the fin too, but there is stuff ahead of the fin). Seems daft to me, but it does mean that a back-to-front keel isn't as wacky as it should be. If downwind stability matters to you, getting the fin as aft as possible makes sense and the bulb has to stay where it is unless you don't mind a fatter ass relative to the bow but .... then you want lot of volume forward to avoid digging in the bow... and it is back to "there is no perfect boat, just good and bad compromises!" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Thanks for those links, @ProaSailor. Weatherwax is a fascinating boat, and it makes a lot of sense to have her shunt instead of tack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Panoramix 1,776 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: Thanks for those links, @ProaSailor. Weatherwax is a fascinating boat, and it makes a lot of sense to have her shunt instead of tack. First time I see this also... One has to admire the no non sense approach to design they had, in a way these are ancestors of ro-ro ferries with a bow door and a stern door except that they had to deal with the added complexity that normal sailing boats don't like going backward so they made it a shunting sailing boat... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Panoramix said: If downwind stability matters to you, getting the fin as aft as possible makes sense and the bulb has to stay where it is unless you don't mind a fatter ass relative to the bow but .... then you want lot of volume forward to avoid digging in the bow... and it is back to "there is no perfect boat, just good and bad compromises!" This is why movable appendages are good. On a Boréal, the downwind config is lift the centreboard and lower the aft board. Then the CLR is way aft, and she tracks perfectly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 3,411 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 A club member had one here a few years back. It was a very unique and well built yacht 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 1,370 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I havent seen Bob around these parts in a looong time. Is he doing ok? I hope he isn't sick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, MauiPunter said: I havent seen Bob around these parts in a looong time. Is he doing ok? I hope he isn't sick. These days he seems to spend more time on his Fan Club's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/187149054996410/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 3,411 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I don’t blame him for avoiding this dump. He doesn’t need the negativity that a few trolls heap on him when he shares anything he’s working on for clients. Top quality man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 2,238 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Sail4beer said: I don’t blame him for avoiding this dump. He doesn’t need the negativity that a few trolls heap on him when he shares anything he’s working on for clients. Top quality man! Bob is a great guy, and I learnt a lot from his many generously helpful answers to questions I asked of him ... as well, of course, as his many generous replies to others. But in the last few years, something changed for Bob in how he approached SA. He seemed to be pricklier, getting hurt when someone said "not my sort of boat", and seemed to almost seek out people who annoyed him rather than ignoring them or avoiding them. He got very heavy in the discussion of the Morgans Cloud "Adventure 40" project, and let Brent Swain goad him into a fury. However, we still have the amazing phenomenon that for over a decade, one of the great yacht designers shared a lot of his time, thoughts, and works-in-progress with this raucous, uncontrolled group of randoms. That produced some amazing boats, and gave us insight into the development of several others. I think we should be very grateful for that while it lasted, and not expect it to continue forever 12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I think Legs has it right. I check SA and CA everyday. If I think I have something to add to the discussion I'll post it. With over 6,600 fan club members on Facebook now that keeps me pretty busy in terms of playing on the internet. It has proven very productive. I have also been doing some virtual lectures to various clubs including the NYYC. That has been fun. 20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Advocate 279 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Bob has added more to this forum than any other single person IMHO. There are a few of us from what I see not here much anymore, and that is the forums loss. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Advocate 279 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 11:58 PM, Bob Perry said: I think Legs has it right. I check SA and CA everyday. If I think I have something to add to the discussion I'll post it. With over 6,600 fan club members on Facebook now that keeps me pretty busy in terms of playing on the internet. It has proven very productive. I have also been doing some virtual lectures to various clubs including the NYYC. That has been fun. Do you need another care package of vegimite yet? I know the last one I left on my last visit isn't near 13 year vintage yet, but you might be out. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pschwenn 13 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 On 1/24/2016 at 8:28 AM, Mr. Ed said: Wow! What do you call that mizzen-staysail-without-a-mizzen? Was she built? On this 70' boat, the owner constrained the draft to less than 7', hence a longish keel was a possibility (a centerboard or wings could have provided better [at the least] upwind performance.) A wing with long chord and little span has a center of effort well forward of that of a high aspect ratio wing. The (heavy) keel cannot simply be moved aft to get the CE back to a usual position, so the CE of the rig with such a keel will be more forward than usual. To not just the classic eye, this makes for quite an empty space behind the mast. Nature refusing to move the CE back on the long shallow keel, what could be done to balance the look? The pilot house, though low, does help to balance the look, but the owner still noted a visual imbalance. Someone dropped in a Dodge Charger-like cigarette boat wing (yikes) which carries the radar and several antennae. Still. The mule helps to visually balance the boat, and provides a relatively low CE sail useful as a steadying sail motoring or no, possibly in lying to, in heavy air paired with a single foresail, off the wind in a broad range of windspeeds, and in light air with lots of sail area. A magical sail apparently. And attracting the curious eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bull City 2,580 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 6 hours ago, pschwenn said: On this 70' boat, the owner constrained the draft to less than 7', hence a longish keel was a possibility (a centerboard or wings could have provided better [at the least] upwind performance.) A wing with long chord and little span has a center of effort well forward of that of a high aspect ratio wing. The (heavy) keel cannot simply be moved aft to get the CE back to a usual position, so the CE of the rig with such a keel will be more forward than usual. To not just the classic eye, this makes for quite an empty space behind the mast. Nature refusing to move the CE back on the long shallow keel, what could be done to balance the look? The pilot house, though low, does help to balance the look, but the owner still noted a visual imbalance. Someone dropped in a Dodge Charger-like cigarette boat wing (yikes) which carries the radar and several antennae. Still. The mule helps to visually balance the boat, and provides a relatively low CE sail useful as a steadying sail motoring or no, possibly in lying to, in heavy air paired with a single foresail, off the wind in a broad range of windspeeds, and in light air with lots of sail area. A magical sail apparently. And attracting the curious eye. Linguistics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pschwenn 13 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 The connections are obscure but possibly real. Language is based on innate human facilities (as song is for birds) whose nature is possibly not reducible to existing physics (as gravity, some phase changes, ... may not be). Same with aesthetics, invention and problem solving; all part of boat design and engineering. So for example, the visual imbalance of the 70 footer's rig may be built in to us, a near innate aesthetic. I don't refer to adherents of rigid expressible doctrines of what things must look like. The human approach to resolving design and manipulation conflicts, a foundation of boat design, engineering and construction, may also be an innate (even limiting) human skill. And the endless creation of novel (e.g. sailboats) devices and configurations another. Also shared (for me): a scepticism about substituting computing for any of these skills, useful as they may be in some aspects. E.g. a failure to learn to draw by hand has turned many current industrial designs into soulless copies of each other. _________________________________________________________________ Now you know what will out if I'm asked about the connection between evolution and boat design (hint: it has to do with the fallacy of progression to perfection.) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 1,334 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Summat like the Golden Ratio, and its real-world manifestation as Fibonacci numbers. Whether our longing for these is endogenous or entrained, we like shit that looks like trees, seashells, human faces, sunflowers. https://www.mathnasium.com/examples-of-the-golden-ratio-in-nature Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,548 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 54 minutes ago, Diarmuid said: Summat like the Golden Ratio, and its real-world manifestation as Fibonacci numbers. Whether our longing for these is endogenous or entrained, we like shit that looks like trees, seashells, human faces, sunflowers. https://www.mathnasium.com/examples-of-the-golden-ratio-in-nature Jeez, I have to get new glasses. I read that as "human feces". That's too close to real shit. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 1,334 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, Ishmael said: Jeez, I have to get new glasses. I read that as "human feces". That's too close to real shit. There's likely deep patterns in poop, for them as looks. Each turd is 0.618 the size of the preceeding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,548 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 37 minutes ago, Diarmuid said: There's likely deep patterns in poop, for them as looks. Each turd is 0.618 the size of the preceeding. The last thing I need in my life is Fibonacci stools. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 1,841 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 I dunno, they seem ok….. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Advocate: I'm doing fine with my stash of Vegemite. Thanks for asking. Busy trying to teach my fan club members, some of them anyway, that frac rigs on cruising boats won't kill you. It's a nice break from trying to teach them that spade rudders won't kill you. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olaf hart 779 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Bob Perry said: Advocate: I'm doing fine with my stash of Vegemite. Thanks for asking. Busy trying to teach my fan club members, some of them anyway, that frac rigs on cruising boats won't kill you. It's a nice break from trying to teach them that spade rudders won't kill you. We are in Southern Queensland preparing to sail to Hobart … Went for a shakedown sail yesterday, everything worked apart from the main autopilot. Hopefully thats fixed now. Weather up here is rubbish atm, La Nina giving us hot sticky stormy weather, waiting for northerlies. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kimbottles 825 Posted December 4, 2021 Author Share Posted December 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, olaf hart said: We are in Southern Queensland preparing to sail to Hobart … Went for a shakedown sail yesterday, everything worked apart from the main autopilot. Hopefully thats fixed now. Weather up here is rubbish atm, La Nina giving us hot sticky stormy weather, waiting for northerlies. Olaf failed to mention he is sailing the Bob Perry Designed Valiant 40 s/n 100 (first one ever built.) In other words, his boat launched Bob Perry’s career as a yacht designer. Pretty important boat! Also means it is HIS BOAT that is in the Cruising Sailboat Hall of Fame. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olaf hart 779 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Doesn't look that famous at the moment Kim but that will change when she gets home. She lived up to her lucky boat reputation again last night, we returned to the fix our autopilot and a massive unpredicted tropical storm came through in the night. We would have been at sea or at anchor if we had pushed on .. So waiting for the next window and keen to get out of here. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bull City 2,580 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Bob Perry said: Busy trying to teach my fan club members, some of them anyway, that frac rigs on cruising boats won't kill you. It's a nice break from trying to teach them that spade rudders won't kill you. Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chester 1,244 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 10 hours ago, Bob Perry said: Advocate: I'm doing fine with my stash of Vegemite. Thanks for asking. Busy trying to teach my fan club members, some of them anyway, that frac rigs on cruising boats won't kill you. It's a nice break from trying to teach them that spade rudders won't kill you. we are such risk takers, sailors...spade rudder, frac rigs, offset companion ways always pushing the limits, putting our lives on yhe line. Heroic really. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olaf hart 779 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Cant enter Tassie until after 15 Dec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socalrider 682 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 On 12/4/2021 at 8:06 AM, Bob Perry said: Advocate: I'm doing fine with my stash of Vegemite. Thanks for asking. Busy trying to teach my fan club members, some of them anyway, that frac rigs on cruising boats won't kill you. It's a nice break from trying to teach them that spade rudders won't kill you. Does that mean you no longer need to teach them that fin keels won't kill you? Thank you for your service Sir! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pschwenn 13 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 1/24/2016 at 3:55 PM, olaf hart said: Yes, what are the mast struts for? On 1/24/2016 at 11:53 AM, Tanton Y_M said: Mr. Ed. Yes, 68' Born of Water 1992. Aluminum. The name of the sail? A mule. I wonder too. Maybe guessing would lead to an answer. They are more than puzzling, seeming to obstruct passage along the deck. Maybe they are removeable, or only seem in these photos to block, or have been added with respect to an even greater problem - the built DSPL or RM may have been so much over, that rig calculations prior to construction and fitting out had to be re-done with existing mast and standing rigging. Maybe something was noticed underway. Or gennaker pole forces needed opposing. Perhaps over-speculating: Buckling isn't intuitive or even always predictable with any means. Demolitions seem to go wrong quite often. When we watch most boats underway, their motion in a variety of seas seems quite natural, and exceptions may be startling. But when you watch a structure buckle, the details routinely seem surprising. An optimizing rig structural analysis calculation can produce quite unequal inter-spreader lengths that "look" wrong. Perhaps an eye was drawn to what looked like too long a segment below the first spreader. regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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