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Eight years ago today we lost Spike Perry. The SLIVER project was started just about that time. The project was then dedicated to the memory of Spike. The Spike Burgee will fly on FRANC

I think Legs has it right. I check SA and CA everyday. If I think I have something to add to the discussion I'll post it. With over 6,600 fan club members on Facebook now that keeps me prett

Took FRANKIE over to Shilshole today and turned her over to Green Card for some love and attention. I towed my Hadlock 23 Skiff behind so I had a way to get back home. It was strange watchin

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I wonder how many people have walked by and laughed that the anchor roller was installed on the wrong end.

 

They probably figure it's a front rudder boat like that Mull 12 meter.

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Honestly, there were a few times in the shop early on when I had to remind myself which end was which.

 

Hence my earlier, "Oh my god! They put the keel on backwards!"

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Honestly, there were a few times in the shop early on when I had to remind myself which end was which.

At the risk of sounding philosophical, I have had many moments in my life when I felt that way!

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I wonder how many people have walked by and laughed that the anchor roller was installed on the wrong end.

 

They probably figure it's a front rudder boat like that Mull 12 meter.

 

Or George O Brien Kennedy's 1973 half-tonner Brainstorm.

 

Fascinatingly original design, but sadly the monochrome photo fails to convey the true 70s horror of her blue-and-yellow paint job.

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Well, she floats........

 

This is not the official launch and christening, just wanted to make it easier on the crew so they did not have to work 15 feet off the ground. We will do the real launch in a couple weeks.

 

My neighbor and friend Neil showed up with his camera........

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Well, she floats........

 

This is not the official launch and christening, just wanted to make it easier on the crew so they did not have to work 15 feet off the ground. We will do the real launch in a couple weeks.

 

My neighbor and friend Neil showed up with his camera........

May I be the first to say: Wow, just wow! She's a beauty for sure. Not that that was ever in doubt! Congratulations to you, the Mrs. and Bob, well played indeed.

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Well, she floats........

 

This is not the official launch and christening, just wanted to make it easier on the crew so they did not have to work 15 feet off the ground. We will do the real launch in a couple weeks.

 

My neighbor and friend Neil showed up with his camera........

Looking great, Kimb and Bob. She floats above her lines, which is a good thing at this stage. Nice job guys.

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Many congrats. Great to see her in the water finally, and as expected, she looks absolutely fantastic, even without any varnished wood bling (which I have a masochistic soft spot for). You must be itching feel a slight helm on that tiller!

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Holy shit!

 

[img=http://haveforkwilleat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/homer-simpson-drooling-

I guess with as Slivery as she is, it wouldn't take much weight for her to be on her lines.

Holy shit!

 

homer-simpson-drooling-a.jpg

 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Congratulations Kim & Bob

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I noticed that she did not move at all when I stepped my 200+ pounds on her rail. Nada. I think she has some stability. Later I was standing below with Jordan and a wake from a passing vessel rocked her, she has a very pleasant motion. I think I am going to like her. She looks ever so much more comfortable in the water, and smaller too.

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Austin:

I haven't taken any freeboards yet. I'll do that later this week. But my guess is that we are about at 18,328 lbs. now. Possible as low as 18,326.

Close to mid 18's.

 

So she's actually a little heavy???? Wasn't the original design weight 17.7-ish?

That's it. Start over. (I just want the thread to keep going)

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No Austin:

The displ to my DWL is 18,827 lbs.. This includes appendages. Perhaps you were thinking of an appendage free displ. I have always called it 19,000 lbs and figured I'd be happy if we came it at 20,000 lbs.

But due to the skill of the design team, me included, we are going to as close as anyone would come. You can call it "spot on".

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I noticed that she did not move at all when I stepped my 200+ pounds on her rail. Nada. I think she has some stability. Later I was standing below with Jordan and a wake from a passing vessel rocked her, she has a very pleasant motion. I think I am going to like her. She looks ever so much more comfortable in the water, and smaller too.

 

All boats look a lot better and a lot smaller in the water, but small boats move when 200 lb people step aboard.

 

She looks gorgeous in the water and I can't wait for the first "under sail" pics. I know there's an official launching, but the next big event to me is motion.

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Ok, here's some "inside hockey" information for you.

I used two different hull modelling programs in order to get this final hull shape. Why did I use two? Because I am so at ease with my old program that I feel most comfortable doing the hard work on it before I transfer it to a newer program where I don't feel I have as much control of the fairing process. This is a bit of a problem because I have to get the hull into the new program so I can do VPP and stability studies. This means that in this case, Frankie, I worked with Jim Franken to develope a 3D hull so that CNC work and VPP work could proceed. This is the same way I work with Jody (Rasputin). This process lets two sets of eyes go over the shape and that means there may be some further refinement. With Frankie Jim called and said he detected a flat spot just under the counter " Do you want to fix that?" I said, "No, you fix it. I can see it now you have pointed it out." He fixed it. Jody and I go back and forth like this all the time. This process is only succesful if I have supreme confidence that the other guy is good enough at his craft to insure that the final hull remains fairthful to my initial hull form. ACAD allows me to overlay lines and detect small differences to double check the final accuracy relative to my initial lines. Some discrepancies will be relevant some will not. Generally not.

 

What am I getting at?

Each of the two hull fairng programs I used for Frankie came up with it's own displacement. The difference is 480 lbs. and means that using the displ from the 3d program I have a designed displ of 18,347 lbs. as opposed to my initial displ of 18, 827 lbs. Part of this could be due to a far more accurate volume for keel and rudder. Part of it is just two different programs using their own data choices. When I did the initial lines I did not have a keel or a rudder so I estimated the additional appendage volume. By the time we got to the VPP stage we had a real keel design and a real rudder.

 

So given what I see today with the boat launched I am inclined to go with the 3d model displ of 18, 347 lbs. and I will adjust from there once I have taken freeboards.

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Heck, I did not know that stuff. How are we going to document this build for the future owners? How do you print out an entire thread on CA??

 

Ya get a good editor and turn it into a coffee table book.

 

Building the Francis Lee -- The Sliver Project

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Heck, I did not know that stuff. How are we going to document this build for the future owners? How do you print out an entire thread on CA??

 

 

I went to the beginning of the thread to try and find the weights. It was like stepping into the WayBack machine!

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The way we did it was that I did a weight study based upon my weight estimates so I had a handle on the total weight and I knew where to put the keel. Then as the build progressed and more and more definitive data was collected the estimated weights were adjusted to reflect reality. This way we knew all through the build where we stood on the weight. Not that we could do much about it at those stages but it was comforting to know.

 

I'll let Kim post the weight study when Jose posts one of his weight studies.

And don't kid yourself, there is a lot of magic in a weight study. Ask Jose.

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The way we did it was that I did a weight study based upon my weight estimates so I had a handle on the total weight and I knew where to put the keel. Then as the build progressed and more and more definitive data was collected the estimated weights were adjusted to reflect reality. This way we knew all through the build where we stood on the weight. Not that we could do much about it at those stages but it was comforting to know.

 

I'll let Kim post the weight study when Jose posts one of his weight studies.

And don't kid yourself, there is a lot of magic in a weight study. Ask Jose.

 

Well if you have time to go over a spreadsheet with anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000 line items... Bob is right not to post his. I think every office develops their own methods over the years and they generally do not want them known for legitimate proprietary reasons. I don't think I know anybody who actually likes doing weight studies. It is a long tedious process, even with electronic spreadsheets. Back in the day, before PCs I worked at a shipyard which had an entire weight study department of about 10 people who worked with their HP 41s and hand measured and entered everything. Every once in a while they would escort one of them out of the office in a straight-jacket and drag some other poor soul from his drafting table kicking and screaming into the weight off ice to replace him.

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The way we did it was that I did a weight study based upon my weight estimates so I had a handle on the total weight and I knew where to put the keel. Then as the build progressed and more and more definitive data was collected the estimated weights were adjusted to reflect reality. This way we knew all through the build where we stood on the weight. Not that we could do much about it at those stages but it was comforting to know.

 

I'll let Kim post the weight study when Jose posts one of his weight studies.

And don't kid yourself, there is a lot of magic in a weight study. Ask Jose.

Bruce and I kind of got carried away and we weighed just about every piece of the boat as they were produced. You should have seen me standing there on the scale holding a bulkhead when we received them from Brandon's shop. Fortunately they were foam core composite so light enough for me to hold while getting weighed. Then I took the off cuts of the deck/cabin/cockpit and weighed all of them and then carefully measured their area so we could get a weight on the entire deck/cabin cockpit unit. Same for the hull off cuts and hull test panel and keelson off cut from the sail-drive opening.

 

We weighed maybe 90% of the boat (except we used the published weight on the engine, sail-drive, batteries, etc.) We weighed the keel fin and ballast bulb (that took a BIG scale.) So all in all we were pretty confident that she would come in light compared to the original study Bob did using his estimates. Of course we have some more stuff to put aboard but not that much. She will come in ready to sail (with fuel) far under the 20,000 mark, maybe around 19,000+/-

 

I actually enjoyed doing the weight study for our project because it was fairly simple and I could get my arms around it. But not sure I would want to do them very often or on a vessel like Jose's company produces.

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Very funny Jose.

There is a lot of work and skill in a good weight study and I prefer to keep that to myself. The mechanics of a weight study are simple. If you are interested try one yourself. I share an awful lot of my methods and "secrets" here but that's one I'll keep to myself. Jose is right. Weight studies are not the most fun part of the design process.

 

Of course you enjoyed doing the weights Kim. You are a CPA.

 

Old Ed monk Sr. would take a yard stick, balance it on a triangular ruler (scale) and then begin to pick up items off his drawing board that represented the weights of the vessel. A eraser would be a gen set. etc. He would then place them on the yard stick and check the balance to simulate their location in the boat. That was his "weight study". It could be an urban legend buit that's what I was told by a friend who worked in the office with old Ed.

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Since I started this thread drift...

When I feed out the cattle, it's a proprietary weight study.

1. Pull the feeder on to the scale and 0 it out.

2. Add hay, clover and alfalfa to # of head*lbs/feed

3. Add corn to animal progression based on animal weight to # of head*lbs/feed

4. Add mineral to # of head*lbs/feed

5. Add spent brewers grains from 2 Brothers Brewery to # of head*lbs/feed

6. Breakfast is served.

 

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Kim I know you are using an old Farr 40 rig but are you keeping the same J, I, P, E dimensions or did you make any changes?

Same except for "J". Ours at 17' is three feet longer than the Farr 40.

 

Otherwise we are close to the same, but we are not trying to stick with F40 rules at all.

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Holy Cow Austin!

You forgot the important part. How many times do I have to tell you? The cattle need beer. Beer I say! Beer and blankets.

 

There's only one animal on the farm that has ever had beer. It's gonna stay that way.

He liked it though, so he got one whenever I was outside having one.

 

Blankets for 630 cattle would sink me.

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Heck, I did not know that stuff. How are we going to document this build for the future owners? How do you print out an entire thread on CA??

 

You don't.

 

You already made a whole boat out of them. Give the trees a rest!

 

Depending on your OS and browser, there are various ways to electronically save a web page. The "File" menu would be a good place to look. The thread only has 84 pages, with a bit of minor off-topic drift here and there. You haven't been saving them? I'd start now.

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Tom:

I did one for each end. They are pretty and go with the lines of the boat. But like in pretty much every build there comes a time when "let's get this done" becomes important and I sure as hell can't argue with that. So let's get Frankie sailing first and if next fall Kim is in the mood we can unbolt the anchor rollers and build the ones I drew. But I suspect that once all the doodads are on the boat and the rig complete the anchor roller will hopefully fade into the overall picture.

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Heck, I did not know that stuff. How are we going to document this build for the future owners? How do you print out an entire thread on CA??

 

You don't.

 

You already made a whole boat out of them. Give the trees a rest!

 

Depending on your OS and browser, there are various ways to electronically save a web page. The "File" menu would be a good place to look. The thread only has 84 pages, with a bit of minor off-topic drift here and there. You haven't been saving them? I'd start now.

 

Of course I meant electronically Tom. And the new thread over on SA too. How do you save this stuff electronically on a hard disk or thump-drive?

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Tom:

I did one for each end. They are pretty and go with the lines of the boat. But like in pretty much every build there comes a time when "let's get this done" becomes important and I sure as hell can't argue with that. So let's get Frankie sailing first and if next fall Kim is in the mood we can unbolt the anchor rollers and build the ones I drew. But I suspect that once all the doodads are on the boat and the rig complete the anchor roller will hopefully fade into the overall picture.

I am thinking of painting them flat black so they are not as noticeable.

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Heck, I did not know that stuff. How are we going to document this build for the future owners? How do you print out an entire thread on CA??

 

You don't.

 

You already made a whole boat out of them. Give the trees a rest!

 

Depending on your OS and browser, there are various ways to electronically save a web page. The "File" menu would be a good place to look. The thread only has 84 pages, with a bit of minor off-topic drift here and there. You haven't been saving them? I'd start now.

 

Of course I meant electronically Tom. And the new thread over on SA too. How do you save this stuff electronically on a hard disk or thump-drive?

 

There are probably better ways, but I just tried File > Save As in Firefox on a Mac. It asks whether you want to save as a web page or text or something. You want a web page. It then generates an html page and saves all the associated images to a folder.

 

Doing this 84 times would result in 84 such files and folders. It's a cumbersome way to do it, but it would work.

 

Bob, I hope your anchor roller gets installed at least on the stern. Like European Bloke, I find it a bit jarring. OTOH, this thread will soon turn three years old, so I can easily see why Kim would choose "sooner and cheaper" on that one.

 

Hey Kim, there's talk of Cowmaran production once again... but lighter and faster this time. Oh, and cheaper. Can't forget cheaper.

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The client, KIM, has grown up sailing Dragons, 6 meters, 40 sq. meters none of which have lifelines. He did not have lifelines on his last boat. He does not want lifelines. Is that smart? Yes it is when it's what the client wants. I thought early on that lifelines would be nice, considering my own balance thesxe days but Kim thought they would not be nice and he's as old as I am.

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Did I read no pulpit or lifelines? Is that smart?

 

Teaches you to hang on. Seriously. I sailed my Sharks for 15 years with no lifelines through all sorts of stuff and nobody ever fell off. I did put a pulpit on my first one, but never bothered for the second, never missed it.

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Kim I know you are using an old Farr 40 rig but are you keeping the same J, I, P, E dimensions or did you make any changes?

Same except for "J". Ours at 17' is three feet longer than the Farr 40.

 

Otherwise we are close to the same, but we are not trying to stick with F40 rules at all.

I love the numbers stuff. Perhaps it's in the thread somewhere but what about the SA/D and D/L ?

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Teaches you to hang on for sure, and most lifelong sailors make a point of always having a hand for the boat. A good point about balance, aging and the over 60 crowd, since even falling at home under normal circumstances increases with age. Beside a malady of conditions that can cause imbalance problems, one of the key issues with balance and aging is dependent on good muscle strength and joint mobility. A sedentary lifestyle compromises strength and mobility, which is a good case for exercise, walking and riding bike. We had a lifelong sailor in Poulsbo who sailed with no lifelines and only a bow pulpit singehanded till he was 98, but he walked or rode his bicycle constantly about town or to the marina, only resorting to driving if he had to go further then the local area.

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Did I read no pulpit or lifelines? Is that smart?

 

Teaches you to hang on. Seriously. I sailed my Sharks for 15 years with no lifelines through all sorts of stuff and nobody ever fell off. I did put a pulpit on my first one, but never bothered for the second, never missed it.

It sure does. I never missed them on the Shark but my wife sure did. She took a step back,while trimming the chute, to get a better look and went into the drink. It was all good though as I managed to grab a hold of her as she went past the back of of the boat and pulled her out. Best of all, we didn't loose a place.

 

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Did I read no pulpit or lifelines? Is that smart?

 

Teaches you to hang on. Seriously. I sailed my Sharks for 15 years with no lifelines through all sorts of stuff and nobody ever fell off. I did put a pulpit on my first one, but never bothered for the second, never missed it.

 

I hear about the lifelines, as long as there are other good handholds.

 

But no pulpit? What do you hold on to? Eg. when switching headsails and things are getting snotty ...

 

Old boat had no lifelines and didn't miss them - cockpit was deep and coamings high. The Siren has a pretty shallow cockpit, so lifelines around it were welcome.

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Zedder:

We will have one headsail on roller furling. We will not be "switching headsails". But note how far aft the tack is from the stem. It's not like you will be clinging to the point.

cwdeck_zps77f9bea3.jpg

 

Note the centerline handrail that runs down the foredeck.

Note the toe rails which are generous.

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Did I read no pulpit or lifelines? Is that smart?

 

Teaches you to hang on. Seriously. I sailed my Sharks for 15 years with no lifelines through all sorts of stuff and nobody ever fell off. I did put a pulpit on my first one, but never bothered for the second, never missed it.

 

I hear about the lifelines, as long as there are other good handholds.

 

But no pulpit? What do you hold on to? Eg. when switching headsails and things are getting snotty ...

 

Old boat had no lifelines and didn't miss them - cockpit was deep and coamings high. The Siren has a pretty shallow cockpit, so lifelines around it were welcome.

 

The forward hatch is close enough to the forestay that you can do most of the sail changes while standing on the V-berth. I do remember one extremely fugly day when I ended up straddling the bow to get something unfucked, but generally it was not an issue. Certainly did improve the gripping ability of your toes with only a 3/4" high toerail to cling on to.

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Let's just cut to the chase. The boat needs rails and a pulpit and those anchor rollers make the boat look cheap. The ends look like they belong on an icebreaker and I'll be happy hear how much ballast we need to add either to the bulb or stacked inside. No foul here, there are always tweaks to be made and it is a work in progress. Mr Perry deserves all the credit in the world for sharing. An invaluable resource and i'd like to know how I may combine the entire thread to one pdf.

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Zedder:

We will have one headsail on roller furling. We will not be "switching headsails". But note how far aft the tack is from the stem. It's not like you will be clinging to the point.

cwdeck_zps77f9bea3.jpg

 

Note the centerline handrail that runs down the foredeck.

Note the toe rails which are generous.

 

You're going to be "clinging to the point" everywhere on that boat! :D

 

I'm one of those odd people who actually LIKES pulpits & lifelines on boats. They have a sort of unfinished look without them to my eye, like all the hardware isn't completely installed yet..

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Tar:

You fail to grasp the nature of custom design. It's not to make you happy and your thoughts on changes are not relevant to this project. By all means put pulpits and lifelines on your own boat. Wonderful.

 

No ballast wil be added. We are very close to our designed weight. I spec'd 6" of bottom paint above the DWL. I will take freeboards on Friday to see just where we are. For now with empty tanks, no sails, no gear, no interior detailing and gear we are light and we should be light. Boats always gain weight over time.

 

The ends are what I want, I worked to push volume into the ends and I am certain they will produce a fast boat. If tweaks are required I suspect they will be to line leads and the deck layout and certainly not the boat.

 

Chase this!

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"You're going to be "clinging to the point" everywhere on that boat!'

 

That's very funny Jon.

I pushed for lifelines. Kim pushed back. I wanted to eat so I caved. I draw a boat like this to m ake Kim happy not me. My satisfaction comes from making Kim's dream come true.

 

When I designed my very first boat the client changed the cockpit shape,. I objected. In writing the client said, "It's not your boat Mr. Perry". I learned a lesson that day.

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Let's just cut to the chase. The boat needs rails and a pulpit and those anchor rollers make the boat look cheap. The ends look like they belong on an icebreaker and I'll be happy hear how much ballast we need to add either to the bulb or stacked inside. No foul here, there are always tweaks to be made and it is a work in progress. Mr Perry deserves all the credit in the world for sharing. An invaluable resource and i'd like to know how I may combine the entire thread to one pdf.

 

My boat I decide. I am very happy with my boat.

 

You can do whatever you want on your boat.

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Let's just cut to the chase. The boat needs rails and a pulpit and those anchor rollers make the boat look cheap. The ends look like they belong on an icebreaker and I'll be happy hear how much ballast we need to add either to the bulb or stacked inside. No foul here, there are always tweaks to be made and it is a work in progress. Mr Perry deserves all the credit in the world for sharing. An invaluable resource and i'd like to know how I may combine the entire thread to one pdf.

Those ends are flipping cool! I love how the knuckles are just above the waterline. I love the forestay back a bit from the stem. Add ballast? I doubt it.

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