Obama's Mexican Gunrunning Operation

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

 

We agree, similar operations happened under the Bush administration. TM will be along shortly to tell you that you are saying "It's Bush's fault.", I'm sure.

 

Yes, I have already noted that they are similar. Similar enough that it makes me wonder why no one was prosecuted last time, and why you think this time will be different.

 

Why do you think this time will be different?

[Mark K 2,321]

 

We agree, similar operations happened under the Bush administration. TM will be along shortly to tell you that you are saying "It's Bush's fault.", I'm sure.

 

Yes, I have already noted that they are similar. Similar enough that it makes me wonder why no one was prosecuted last time, and why you think this time will be different.

 

Why do you think this time will be different?

 

The mention of Hoover's instructions to terminate it which the Phoenix AFT team did an end-around on, for one. Also the curious absence of certain key players in these hearings, the most likely explanation being that Issa knows that with on-going investigations everybody is forbidden from making public comments about.

 

Did you see Issa's reaction when that guy tried to introduce the topic of Melson? Issa said what the Congressman was doing was grossly inappropriate (paraphrasing a comment)"for reasons we both know" and the Congressman agreed. Melson?? The head of the ATF? ....Inappropriate?!?

 

I smells somethin' cookin'. Have to wait and see.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

We agree, similar operations happened under the Bush administration. TM will be along shortly to tell you that you are saying "It's Bush's fault.", I'm sure.

 

Yes, I have already noted that they are similar. Similar enough that it makes me wonder why no one was prosecuted last time, and why you think this time will be different.

 

Why do you think this time will be different?

 

The mention of Hoover's instructions to terminate it which the Phoenix AFT team did an end-around on, for one.

 

That's a significant difference between Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious, and tells me that the gunwalkers had political backing higher up than Hoover.

[Mark K 2,321]

We agree, similar operations happened under the Bush administration. TM will be along shortly to tell you that you are saying "It's Bush's fault.", I'm sure.

 

Yes, I have already noted that they are similar. Similar enough that it makes me wonder why no one was prosecuted last time, and why you think this time will be different.

 

Why do you think this time will be different?

 

The mention of Hoover's instructions to terminate it which the Phoenix AFT team did an end-around on, for one.

 

That's a significant difference between Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious, and tells me that the gunwalkers had political backing higher up than Hoover.

 

Why would they have to go higher than Melson?

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Why would they have to go higher than Melson?

 

You tell me.

 

...how far up the chain of command should approval originate?

 

Top of the ATF. The head honcho. The big cheese. And he had damn well get Justice to sign off on it before he does it too.

 

Any reason you added that part in bold?

[Mark K 2,321]

Why would they have to go higher than Melson?

 

You tell me.

 

...how far up the chain of command should approval originate?

 

Top of the ATF. The head honcho. The big cheese. And he had damn well get Justice to sign off on it before he does it too.

 

Any reason you added that part in bold?

 

Yes, but we have covered that ground.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

And you were right. Someone at Justice should sign off on something like this. One reason would be, the ATF does not necessarily know what the FBI and DEA are doing, and someone above them (meaning, at Justice, the parent organization of all three) should coordinate activities. Fast and Furious has certainly provided ample evidence of the need for that coordination. Another reason would be, Justice would probably recognize that something like this treads outside their turf and into State Department turf.

[Mark K 2,321]

And you were right. Someone at Justice should sign off on something like this. One reason would be, the ATF does not necessarily know what the FBI and DEA are doing, and someone above them (meaning, at Justice, the parent organization of all three) should coordinate activities. Fast and Furious has certainly provided ample evidence of the need for that coordination. Another reason would be, Justice would probably recognize that something like this treads outside their turf and into State Department turf.

 

No, the reason Justice has to sign off on this is that arresting the perps is the cops job, but getting them convicted in a court of law and punished is the prosecutors. The prosecutors frequently can't accomplish that if the cops do it wrong.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

And you were right. Someone at Justice should sign off on something like this. One reason would be, the ATF does not necessarily know what the FBI and DEA are doing, and someone above them (meaning, at Justice, the parent organization of all three) should coordinate activities. Fast and Furious has certainly provided ample evidence of the need for that coordination. Another reason would be, Justice would probably recognize that something like this treads outside their turf and into State Department turf.

 

No, the reason Justice has to sign off on this is that arresting the perps is the cops job, but getting them convicted in a court of law and punished is the prosecutors. The prosecutors frequently can't accomplish that if the cops do it wrong.

 

That's another good reason, but does not exclude the ones I gave. So basically, there are lots of good reasons why they have to go higher than Melson.

[Mark K 2,321]

And you were right. Someone at Justice should sign off on something like this. One reason would be, the ATF does not necessarily know what the FBI and DEA are doing, and someone above them (meaning, at Justice, the parent organization of all three) should coordinate activities. Fast and Furious has certainly provided ample evidence of the need for that coordination. Another reason would be, Justice would probably recognize that something like this treads outside their turf and into State Department turf.

 

No, the reason Justice has to sign off on this is that arresting the perps is the cops job, but getting them convicted in a court of law and punished is the prosecutors. The prosecutors frequently can't accomplish that if the cops do it wrong.

 

That's another good reason, but does not exclude the ones I gave. So basically, there are lots of good reasons why they have to go higher than Melson.

 

The agents in the Phoenix ATF office? Nah. Melson was the boss. He can't order them to do anything illegal, but if the DA in Phoenix has approved it, they have their asses covered.

 

See why this is would be a tricky prosecution of cops now?

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Burke says he is not the one who approved this, and if he did, I think he overstepped his authority in a big way and should be prosecuted for the resulting crimes.

 

How would a local prosecutor know relevant facts like: one cartel buyer that the ATF was supposedly going after was an FBI informant and thus untouchable anyway? And if he did know that kind of information, wtf was he doing? I say "supposedly" because, as many have pointed out, the operation had no chance of catching that guy even if he were a target. Tracing guns found at crime scenes is just not a believable way of going after cartel kingpins.

 

In any case, the crimes of Fast and Furious are one area where I would like to see people fired and/or prosecuted, but I would also like to see the stonewallers who made a lame attempt to cover up the fact that the ATF had been walking guns gone. That means Breuer, Weinstein, and anyone who thinks they did a fine job of investigating whether the whistleblower allegations were true. That means Holder.

[nannygovtsucks 18]

TPMLivewire

05:27 PM EST

Issa Signals Contempt Proceedings Against Holder Over Fast And Furious

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa signaled Tuesday that his committee will "move forward with the contempt proces against Attorney General Eric Holder unless the Justice Department commits to "providing, at a minimum, a detailed description of documents it is withholding" from his committee in the course of their investigation into ATF's Operation Fast and Furious.

 

 

'bout time.

 

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Eric Holder would have modified Fast and Furious

 

Had he been paying attention, but he was not.

 

“I mean, allowing guns to walk is simply a procedure that does not make sense. It’s bad law enforcement. And I think that is at the heart of the problem with regard to Fast and Furious,” Holder said.

 

I think that the DOJ denying that guns were allowed to walk until Spring of last year is at the heart of a worse problem: there are enough people in high places in our government who think gunwalking makes sense that it keeps happening, and enough people in high places in our government who think gunwalking makes sense that they wanted to cover it up so it could continue.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Looks like investigators may finally get to hear from Kevin O'Reilly about just what it was that Gunwalker Bill Newell was telling him.

 

That is, if the White House agrees that transparency in government would be a good thing, which of course they will not.

 

So instead Issa will fume and again threaten to use his subpoena power, which it is obvious to one and all he will never actually use.

 

I do not believe anyone involved in this mess will ever be punished. The lesson agents can take away is: toss the rule book if you want, just make sure to shut up when the stonewall goes up and everything will be OK.

 

It will happen again.

[nannygovtsucks 18]

Looks like investigators may finally get to hear from Kevin O'Reilly about just what it was that Gunwalker Bill Newell was telling him.

 

That is, if the White House agrees that transparency in government would be a good thing, which of course they will not.

 

So instead Issa will fume and again threaten to use his subpoena power, which it is obvious to one and all he will never actually use.

 

I do not believe anyone involved in this mess will ever be punished. The lesson agents can take away is: toss the rule book if you want, just make sure to shut up when the stonewall goes up and everything will be OK.

 

It will happen again.

 

Nope. White House blocking access to O'Reilly.

 

 

 

Related video here: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/chaffetz-white-house-blocking-access-to-fast-and-furious-witness-who-wants-to-testify/#ixzz1rKJ4HYtm

 

White House Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler sent a letter Thursday to Republican lawmakers Rep. Darrell Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley, refusing their request to speak with Kevin O’Reilly, a former National Security staff member whose emails place him in the middle of the unfolding scandal. Issa and Grassley had written to Ruemmler on March 28, asking the White House to step aside and let O’Reilly talk to investigators.

 

Grassley is the GOP ranking member on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Issa chairs the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, whose members include Chaffetz.

 

“[O’Reilly’s] personal attorney indicated that he’s more than willing to talk to the committee, on the record, under oath”” Chaffetz told Kelly during her Friday afternoon broadcast. “It is only the White House and the White House Counsel that is saying they will not make him available.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TMSAIL 60]

Hmmm. Probably can confirm what every one already knows. Holder was lying through his teeth when he claimed that he recently (when he testified) learned about F&F

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Excerpt from the latest committee report:

 

As more information came to light, however, Gil and Canino concluded that hundreds and

hundreds of guns had been walked. These guns ended up in at crime scenes in Mexico, about

which Gil and Canino received extensive briefings. Gil and Canino became incensed when they

finally began to learn about the full scope of Operation Fast and Furious and the investigative

techniques involved:

 

Q. When you first got the impression that this was part of a strategy to

let guns walk into Mexico, what was your reaction to that strategy?

 

A. I wasn't convinced that this happened until this past April after all

the allegations were made, and I talked to different people. I was

beyond shocked. Embarrassed. I was angry. I'm still angry.

Because this is not what we do.

 

* * *

 

That is, I mean, this is the perfect storm of idiocy. That is the

only way I could put it. This is, I mean, this is inconceivable to

me. This is group think gone awry. You know what General

George Patton says, if we are all thinking alike, then nobody is

thinking. Right? Nobody was thinking here. How could anybody

think, hey, let's follow, I mean there is a guy in this case that

bought over 600 guns. At what point do you think you might want

to pull him aside and say, hey, come here for a second.137

 

When Canino himself uncovered hard evidence that ATF had allowed the guns to disappear from

their surveillance he understood the whistleblower allegations were true:

 

Q. Okay, and take us through what happened in April.

 

A. I was here on a visit to headquarters.

 

Q. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms headquarters?

 

A. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms headquarters, and I was, I was

looking at a, the management log on this case. And the first two

pages, if I'm not mistaken, there are entries there that

chronicle us walking away on three separate occasions from

stash houses.

 

Q. And did that sound to you incredible?

 

A. I stopped reading.

 

Q. So you only got through two pages of this management log?

 

A. Yeah.

 

Q. And then you couldn't read it any longer?

 

A. Didn't want to.

 

Q. Because you were so upset?

 

A. Yes.

 

Q. And you were upset because walking away from three stash houses

struck you as so outrageous?

 

A. Walking away from one, walking away from one gun when you

know that that gun is going to be used in a crime when you, I

mean, there is no, there was no gray area here guys. There was

no gray area here. We knew that these guys were trafficking

guns into Mexico. There is no gray area. They weren't

trafficking, [the] guys weren't going out and buying two Larson 22

pistols. These guys were buying 7.62, 223's, .50 caliber rifles,

okay, there was no mistake about this. This is no gray area.

 

Is walking away from stash houses tracking guns, or were the agents who were ordered to walk away from those houses being ordered not to track the guns any more, wabbit? OK, so I have a cricket addiction.

 

 

Another brilliant Phoenix ATF operation involved a guy who was apparently re-manufacturing grenades for the Mexican cartels. Interestingly, Agent Canino, quoted above, warned these guys not to walk grenades. They did it anyway.

 

The plan to allow Kingery to traffic grenade parts into a foreign country and track him to his factory drew strong internal objections.

 

"That's not possible," wrote a lead ATF official in Mexico. "We are forbidden from doing that type of activity. If ICE is telling you they can do that, they are full of [expletive]..."

 

ATF officials in Mexico worried that once Kingery and the grenades crossed the border, they would disappear. And that's exactly what happened.

 

Meanwhile, over at the DOJ, noted liar Ron Weich is on the way out the door.

 

 

On Feb. 4, 2011, Weich wrote to Congress that the idea that “ATF ‘sanctioned’ or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico … is false.”

 

“ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico,” Weich added in that letter.

 

The DOJ has since retracted Weich’s letter but has not held anyone accountable for providing that misinformation to Congress, or for Operation Fast and Furious itself.

 

 

 

 

 

He is going to become dean of the University of Baltimore law school, so the continuing good reputation of lawyers can continue for yet another generation.

 

 

 

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Let's get ready to get ready

 

Republican House leaders have drafted a proposed contempt of Congress citation against Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. in which they charge that he and his Justice Department have repeatedly "obstructed and slowed" the Capitol Hill investigation into the ATF's flawed Fast and Furious gun-tracking operation.

 

The 48-page draft citation is being drawn up by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Vista), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Top committee officials recently met for most of a day in the House speaker's office and were given the green light to proceed toward a contempt citation, according to sources who declined to be identified.

 

But CBS News' Sharyl Attkisson says that green light may be yellow...

 

CBS News has confirmed that House Speaker John Boehner, an Ohio Republican, was provided a 48-page long draft by Issa, who heads the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

 

"While there are very legitimate arguments to be made in favor of such an action, no decision has been made to move forward with one by the Speaker or by House Republican leaders," a Republican leadership aide told CBS News.

 

[nannygovtsucks 18]

http://www.cbsnews.c...ts-blank-pages/

 

Government's answer to "Fast and Furious" records requests: Hand over Blank pages!

 

 

It's almost like Holder is trying to hide something.

[TMSAIL 60]

Maybe when they promised to be transparent they really meant invisible?

[nannygovtsucks 18]

Contempt process begins against Holder.

 

(CBS News) Republicans on the House Oversight Committee were to take the first formal step Thursday toward contempt proceedings against Attorney General Eric Holder over the Fast and Furious "gunwalking" operation, CBS News has learned.

 

 

 

The case for a citation declaring Holder in contempt will be laid out in a briefing paper and 48-page draft citation distributed to Democrats and Republicans on the committee. CBS News has obtained copies of both documents. In them, Republican members use strong language to accuse Holder of obstructing the committee's investigation, which is now in its second year.

 

 

 

The documents allege that the Justice Department has issued, "false denials, given answers intended to misdirect investigators, sought to intimidate witnesses, unlawfully withheld subpoenaed documents, and waited to be confronted with indisputable evidence before acknowledging uncomfortable facts."

 

 

 

Gov't answers CBS News "Fast and Furious" records requests with blank pages

Republicans prep contempt citation against Holder over Fast and Furious

ATF let "gunwalking" suspect go after arrest

 

 

 

"The Justice Department's demonstrable contempt for the congressional investigation has inflicted harm on the people of two nations seeking the truth - and very pointedly on the family of fallen Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ATF whistleblowers who now face retaliation in the wake of their own heroic efforts to expose wrongdoing," says the brief to be distributed Thursday.

 

 

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...ver-gunwalking/

[nannygovtsucks 18]

In advance of the forthcoming contempt citation, Issa has prepared an extensive staff briefing on the case. Long, but worth the read.

Issa interview yesterday on Fox:

 

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Legislators gotta legislate

 

House Republicans on Wednesday presented an amendment to a Department of Justice spending bill that would prevent Justice from using taxpayer funds to lie to Congress.

 

This sounds like a fun game. You oppose this? We're working on the ad that says you support letting the Justice Department spend tax money to spin lies. (And by "we" I mean some corporation exercising their first amendment rights, most likely.)

 

Sorry, but the one thing this situation does NOT indicate is the need to expand the federal law books again.

[Guest One of Five]

Tom, what's the update on ths? Any Obama Administration types getting indicted for this yet?

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Tom, what's the update on ths? Any Obama Administration types getting indicted for this yet?

 

Oh, absolutely. They've been punished. It's in the article I linked.

 

One Democrat, Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.), said many believe Holder is "one of the best that's ever served in this position," and said he has punished those involved.

[Guest One of Five]

Tom, what's the update on ths? Any Obama Administration types getting indicted for this yet?

 

Oh, absolutely. They've been punished. It's in the article I linked.

 

One Democrat, Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.), said many believe Holder is "one of the best that's ever served in this position," and said he has punished those involved.

 

That's too funny....

 

here's the full cite:

 

House Republicans on Wednesday presented an amendment to a Department of Justice spending bill that would prevent Justice from using taxpayer funds to lie to Congress.

 

The bill, which is likely to pass, was presented by Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) and supported by several other Republicans who are outraged over a February 2011 letter from the department that denied any involvement in a gun-walking program. That program allowed guns to enter Mexico and fall into the hands of drug cartel members.

 

Justice later retracted the letter and acknowledged that the so-called "Fast and Furious" program was flawed. Since then, Republicans have sought documents related to the operation, and accused Attorney General Eric Holder of stonewalling in response.

 

"What is totally and wholly unacceptable … is that the Department of Justice would knowingly and willfully present a letter back to Congress on February 4 [2011], that was so inaccurate and so wrong," Chaffetz said. "They basically lied to Congress, and it took months and months and months and months to get to the point where they finally had to rescind that letter."

 

"They will not be … allowed to be able to use taxpayer funds, federal dollars, to knowingly, willfully skirt the law and lie to Congress," he said of his amendment.

 

One Democrat, Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.), said many believe Holder is "one of the best that's ever served in this position," and said he has punished those involved. But Republicans said there is no evidence that anyone has been punished or fired for Fast and Furious.

 

"No one has been punished," Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) said. "There hasn't been a demotion, there hasn't been a firing, there hasn't been a sanction, there hasn't been a frowny-face on a performance evaluation."

 

"No other state has suffered consequences like we have in Arizona," Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) said, while Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) said Congress should go further by defunding parts of Justice.

 

"We have got to cut off the money to the employees like Eric Holder who stonewall at best, and lie more likely," he said.

 

On Tuesday night, the House voted to strip $1 million in funding from Justice in response to the Fast and Furious scandal.

 

The Chaffetz amendment would amend H.R. 5326, a bill making appropriations for Justice, the Commerce Department, NASA and other agencies. A vote on his amendment is expected early Wednesday evening.

 

Cut off their funds. Hit them where it really hurts.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

A million out of twentysomething billion that the DOJ spends each year?

 

It's a drop in the bucket, not a punishment. Besides, a new law or a fine for the whole department is not the answer to the fact that government agents were complicit in and encouraged federal crimes. Indictments seem a better answer, though far, far less likely.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Now that those responsible have been punished, it is time for the most important work of governance to proceed, namely, naming stuff after people. With that in mind...

 

President Barack Obama maintains silence on the Brian A. Terry Memorial Act that passed the Democratic-controlled Senate unanimously on Tuesday evening. The Republican-controlled House passed it unanimously in December.

 

...

 

It’s also unclear whether Obama will do a public signing ceremony for the act, assuming he chooses to sign it.

 

...

 

The act, assuming Obama now signs it, would rename the U.S. Border Patrol station in Bisbee, Arizona to honor Terry’s memory.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Legislators gotta legislate

 

House Republicans on Wednesday presented an amendment to a Department of Justice spending bill that would prevent Justice from using taxpayer funds to lie to Congress.

 

This sounds like a fun game. You oppose this? We're working on the ad that says you support letting the Justice Department spend tax money to spin lies. (And by "we" I mean some corporation exercising their first amendment rights, most likely.)

 

Sorry, but the one thing this situation does NOT indicate is the need to expand the federal law books again.

 

Pelosi was present but did not vote on this (silly) measure.

 

It is sort of odd that she would do that. A large majority of Democrats supported the amendment.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Tom, what's the update on ths? Any Obama Administration types getting indicted for this yet?

 

Oh, absolutely. They've been punished. It's in the article I linked.

 

One Democrat, Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.), said many believe Holder is "one of the best that's ever served in this position," and said he has punished those involved.

 

It looks like Rep. Fattah's view is universally held on the Democrat side and is held by a few Republicans as well.

 

There will be no accountability, no prosecutions, no punishment for anyone but whistleblowers, and with the architects of the policy still in government jobs, it will happen again.

[Mark K 2,321]

[Saorsa 48]

Did Doris ever do "It's only just begun"?

[Mark K 2,321]

[Saorsa 48]

Especially for agent Terry.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

It's a big government with a lot of moving parts. Holder can't be expected to know every time his people are illegally arming drug cartels and neither can Janet Napolitano.

 

Investigative sources say ICE became involved in Fast and Furious in late 2009 when the agency began its own weapons smuggling probe and discovered the suspects were also being investigated by ATF. An ICE special agent was then put on the ATF case, and later replaced by a second special agent. That agent worked on Fast and Furious through February 2011, serving as a liaison between ATF and DHS. Law enforcement and investigative sources say the ICE special agent was also involved in investigation and surveillance activities.

 

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano testified to Congress on Sept. 13, 2011, that she was unaware of Fast and Furious while it was under way. Napolitano said she could not recall when she first learned that Fast and Furious weapons were linked to Border Patrol Agent Terry's death.

 

Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX) sits on the House Homeland Security Committee and requested the DHS IG investigation.

 

...

 

The Justice Department IG has been investigating the case at Attorney General Eric Holder's request since Feb. 2011. No timetable has been given for release of a final report.

 

 

I'm not sure why they are waiting so long for the final report. Congressman Fattah says they have already punished those involved. Of course, he might just be completely full of shit.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

They are attacking the field agents. They must want to stop them from running stings. NRA false flag operation? Pretend to be a crusader against gun smugglers to cover up the attack on ATF's stings that hurt sales?

 

Uh oh. Looks like the Obama administration is deflecting and trying to push the blame down the chain of command a bit...

 

President Obama's Justice Department is trying to deflect responsibility over decisions in the Project Gunrunner and Operation Fast and Furious investigations, which are being spearheaded by House Oversight Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican, and Sen. Chuck Grassley, Iowa Republican. Last Wednesday, Issa released new Project Gunrunner documents, including an approved wiretap application bearing Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer's name. Though Breuer didn't sign it, his Deputy Assistant Attorney General (DAAG), Kenneth Blanc, did.

 

Now the DOJ says Blanc's signature and Breuer's name doesn't imply any federal-level responsibility. Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler told The Daily Caller that the Obama administration's DOJ officials routinely approve thousands of wiretap applications without knowing the specifics of the cases they're signing off on.

 

"The review process for wiretap applications is a narrow assessment of whether a legal basis exists to support a surveillance request that ultimately goes before a judge for decision," Schmaler said in an email. "These reviews are not approval of the underlying investigations or operations."

 

House Oversight Committee spokesman Frederick Hill told TheDC he thinks it's disturbing that the DOJ is routinely approving wiretap applications like this one. "The assertion that the Justice Department has a robo-signing process for wiretap applications is a deeply troubling defense," Hill said in an email. "Applications for wiretaps generally include detailed descriptions of law enforcement activities, sworn statements and explanations for why invasive wiretaps are crucial to an investigation. Claiming ignorance on an operation where wiretaps were approved by high level officials raises even more concerns about irresponsible and reckless decisions by Justice officials that contributed to the deaths of two federal agents."

 

...

 

 

Schmaler said the applications still have to go before a judge for final approval. But, Schmaler shifts any DOJ responsibility down the chain to local officials, even though Obama's politically appointed U.S. attorney Dennis Burke, who oversees the U.S. Attorney's Arizona District, has made decisions on the gun "walking" programs, along with several local officials. "As the department has stated, the Fast and Furious operation was approved by the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Arizona and the ATF Phoenix Field Office," Schmaler told TheDC. "The investigation was subsequently approved by the multi-agency Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) Program."

 

It probably won't take long for some of these would-be scapegoats to figure out the new game and start talking to Congressional investigators about who was in the loop on this operation. Should start getting interesting...

 

Well, it has been a year since that post and those wiretap applications are starting to cause a few uncomfortable questions about those who approved them...

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Gunwalking Wiretap Applications Obtained By Congress

 

Evidently certain inconvenient facts have emerged and caused a change in the story line. It went from "those applications would not have details about gunwalking" to "the people who were supposed to review those applications only looked at summaries." Neither explanation seems particularly believable to me. If they were true, it would seem to me to be evidence of carelessness and incompetence. Since they are most likely not true, they are just more evidence of lying and covering up.

 

Holder's testimony to Congress on Nov. 8, 2011 when Holder stated, "I'd be surprised if the tactics themselves about gunwalking were actually contained in those, in those [wiretap] applications. I have not seen them, but I would be surprised [if] that were the case." Holder later made a similar statement to Congress on Feb. 2, 2012.

 

...

 

the lead Democrat on the Committee, Rep. Elijah Cummings wrote Issa to say that his allegations "mischaracterize the contents and significance" of the wiretap applications. Further, Cummings said testimony to date indicates senior Justice Department officials never saw the actual wiretap applications, but instead were presented with summaries.

 

[Mark K 2,321]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

[Saorsa 48]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

Yeah, and Holder and company are lying their asses off about it.

 

Now, that's leadership. Definitely gives you a great deal of confidence in their competence.

 

Lean forward.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

 

Actually, that post of yours was from March of last year, so not exactly breaking news, but still truly stupid. Sorry it got caught up in the quote.

[Mark K 2,321]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

 

Actually, that post of yours was from March of last year, so not exactly breaking news, but still truly stupid. Sorry it got caught up in the quote.

 

No need to apologize, dragging up old stuff like that is typical.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

 

Actually, that post of yours was from March of last year, so not exactly breaking news, but still truly stupid. Sorry it got caught up in the quote.

 

No need to apologize, dragging up old stuff like that is typical.

 

I'm inconvenient in an Etch A Sketch world.

 

If this one drags on as long as Watergate, we only have a year and a half or so to go at this point. I wonder if there is a Howard Baker in our government today?

[Mark K 2,321]

Breaking news: Something stupid happened.

 

Stop the presses.

 

Actually, that post of yours was from March of last year, so not exactly breaking news, but still truly stupid. Sorry it got caught up in the quote.

 

No need to apologize, dragging up old stuff like that is typical.

 

I'm inconvenient in an Etch A Sketch world.

 

If this one drags on as long as Watergate, we only have a year and a half or so to go at this point. I wonder if there is a Howard Baker in our government today?

 

My opinions change as more information becomes available, I'm not in the least bit embarrassed about that.

 

Think Issa will do anything more than write letters?

[Jay W 0]

I think Issac has Holder in a box. He doesn't want to let him out of the box but h can't catch him either.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

My opinions change as more information becomes available, I'm not in the least bit embarrassed about that.

 

Think Issa will do anything more than write letters?

 

What information led to this opinion, I wonder?

 

 

Contrast that letter with Melson's testimony last year. http://www.atf.gov/p...opriations.html

 

He is quite proud of what Gunrunner accomplished in 2009, expanded it with Stim money, and is asking for more.

Lists alot of busts and arrests too.

 

They are attacking the field agents. They must want to stop them from running stings. NRA false flag operation? Pretend to be a crusader against gun smugglers to cover up the attack on ATF's stings that hurt sales?

 

I think Issa is hoping someone else in the government sees something wrong with what happened and does not believe that those responsible have already been punished, as Rep. Fattah does. I am also hoping he finds such a person. It would be nice if Boehner were such a person, but even better if there were a Democrat willing to have a Howard Baker moment. I'm not holding my breath.

[Mark K 2,321]

My opinions change as more information becomes available, I'm not in the least bit embarrassed about that.

 

Think Issa will do anything more than write letters?

 

What information led to this opinion, I wonder?

 

 

Contrast that letter with Melson's testimony last year. http://www.atf.gov/p...opriations.html

 

He is quite proud of what Gunrunner accomplished in 2009, expanded it with Stim money, and is asking for more.

Lists alot of busts and arrests too.

 

They are attacking the field agents. They must want to stop them from running stings. NRA false flag operation? Pretend to be a crusader against gun smugglers to cover up the attack on ATF's stings that hurt sales?

 

I think Issa is hoping someone else in the government sees something wrong with what happened and does not believe that those responsible have already been punished, as Rep. Fattah does. I am also hoping he finds such a person. It would be nice if Boehner were such a person, but even better if there were a Democrat willing to have a Howard Baker moment. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Democrats are bad.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Whack a Mole?

 

With the help of a mole, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has turned the tables on Attorney General Eric Holder.

 

Issa has long been exasperated with Holder, claiming that the Department of Justice (DOJ) has been withholding information on a controversial gun-running operation. But through an anonymous source, Issa has obtained information about the initiative that is under a federal court-ordered seal.

 

Giving such information out is a federal crime, raising the question of whether the Justice Department will seek to prosecute what Republicans are calling a whistleblower.

 

 

 

When do words cease to mean things? When the Attorney General says so, of course.

 

In his testimony, Holder said that the emails only referred to Operation Wide Receiver.

 

Holder told the committee: “That refers to Wide Receiver, not to Fast and Furious. The e-mail that you [Rep. Chaffetz] just read [between Trusty and Weinstein] – now this is important – that email referred to Wide Receiver, it did not refer to Fast and Furious. That has to be noted for the record.”

 

Chaffetz, after a long pause, said, "No, it doesn't. It says Fast and Furious. 'Do you think we should have Lanny participate in press when Fast and Furious and Laura’s Tucson case [Wide Receiver] are unsealed?' It's specific to Fast and Furious. That is not true, Mr. Attorney General. I'm happy to share it with you."

 

 

Holder's appearance yesterday should increase the number of people who are calling for his resignation. Not a good witness is putting it mildly.

[Mark K 2,321]

Most troubling. As discussed awhile ago, Holder mentioned that cases were being built against the officials that signed off on F&F, and now, Issa has released sealed documents related to those cases. Indeed, what appears to be crucial evidence. Grounds for a mistrial?

 

What is Issa's motivation for doing this?

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Issa has released them? Good. I have been wanting to read the actual wiretap applications. Where can they be found?

[Mark K 2,321]

Issa has released them? Good. I have been wanting to read the actual wiretap applications. Where can they be found?

 

I was referring to the e-mails.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Those emails have been out for many months and we've talked about them here. They are not under seal. None of the material under the federal judge's seal has been released by the committee.

 

What Issa did is tell Holder he has the wiretap applications that he has been asking for for a long time. The whistleblower who gave them to him unquestionably committed a crime and it would be a crime for Issa to release them, which is probably one reason he has not.

[Mark K 2,321]

Those emails have been out for many months and we've talked about them here. They are not under seal. None of the material under the federal judge's seal has been released by the committee.

 

What Issa did is tell Holder he has the wiretap applications that he has been asking for for a long time. The whistleblower who gave them to him unquestionably committed a crime and it would be a crime for Issa to release them, which is probably one reason he has not.

 

My bad. The emails are a separate issue. I had thought them linked.

 

The wire-taps are solely at issue on compromising on-going prosecutions.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Yes, the wire taps are an interesting issue. Both sides seem to me to have a good legal point, and then there is a whole political dimension to going after a whistleblower.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Vote to hold Holder in contempt scheduled.

 

Issa confident.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Can Holder Avoid Contempt Vote?

 

Republican leadership sees this issue as a political loser. “This isn’t the message leadership wants,” one veteran House Republican lawmaker said. “They just want a boring, quiet summer of us not saying anything to screw up [and] get in the way of Obama’s economic news.”

 

A House GOP aide added, “Not a fight we are looking for. It doesn’t look good for anybody.”

 

 

Oh. Well, if the work of an oversight committe is going to make the government look bad, it really isn't important, is it?

 

Many Republican aides expect Justice will dump a trove of documents on Issa’s lap prior to June 20. That would most likely slow the vote — the committee would need to review the paperwork.

 

It might not take that long to review them if they are like most of the other "released" documents.

 

[Mark K 2,321]

He seems pretty worked up.

 

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Issa may seem worked up, but at least he does not seem delusional. Rep. Fattah thinks those responsible for this mess have been punished. That's a strange delusion and makes me question his fitness for office.

 

More Whistleblowers?

 

Multiple, previously highly credible, sources close to the Gunwalker investigation report that there are at least one and perhaps two sources within the Department of Justice headquarters who have approached the Issa Committee seeking whistleblower status. One source, who reported that there were at least two of Eric Holder's subordinates who "came in from the cold," characterized them as "high-level" DOJ employees "with knowledge of Eric Holder's actions before and after" the 4 February 2011 DOJ letter denying that the DOJ and its subordinate agencies knew about "gunwalking." That letter has since been admitted by DOJ to have been a lie. If true, one or both of these whistleblowers may be the so-called "mole" -- a source within DOJ said to have been leaking documents, including the wiretap affidavits, to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

 

This tells me that Holder knows who gave Issa the wiretap applications and has somehow reacted. The person or people who did that could be in serious trouble, so they're seeking protection from Congress.

[Mark K 2,321]

Holder agrees to the E-mails.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/14/house-dems-mount-holder-defense-as-republicans-pursue-contempt-vote/

 

Might stop the vote.

 

 

 

This says the R leadership had been slow-walking Issa's demands for action, probably because they don't believe he has the "goods".

 

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/tense-megyn-kelly-panel-explodes-over-likelihood-eric-holder-will-be-found-in-contempt/

 

 

If true, Issa will be pressured to back off on the vote in his committee.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

In recent days, Issa narrowed his demands to focus on correspondence between department officials after they sent a now-retracted letter to Congress on Feb. 4, 2011. In that letter, the department inaccurately insisted: "ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico."

 

Does that seem strange to anyone else? I'd think he would be interested in stuff before that letter as well.

[Saorsa 48]

In recent days, Issa narrowed his demands to focus on correspondence between department officials after they sent a now-retracted letter to Congress on Feb. 4, 2011. In that letter, the department inaccurately insisted: "ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico."

 

Does that seem strange to anyone else? I'd think he would be interested in stuff before that letter as well.

I think they want to follow the coverup and who was directing that. That's always an interesting thread to pull when unravelling the web.

[Saorsa 48]

Holder agrees to the E-mails.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/14/house-dems-mount-holder-defense-as-republicans-pursue-contempt-vote/

 

Might stop the vote.

 

 

 

This says the R leadership had been slow-walking Issa's demands for action, probably because they don't believe he has the "goods".

 

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/tense-megyn-kelly-panel-explodes-over-likelihood-eric-holder-will-be-found-in-contempt/

 

 

If true, Issa will be pressured to back off on the vote in his committee.

Classic stall from DOJ. This will be followed by a total data dump in hardcopy form.

[Mark K 2,321]

In recent days, Issa narrowed his demands to focus on correspondence between department officials after they sent a now-retracted letter to Congress on Feb. 4, 2011. In that letter, the department inaccurately insisted: "ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico."

 

Does that seem strange to anyone else? I'd think he would be interested in stuff before that letter as well.

 

That's one of the things that makes me suspect Issa is being told to dial it down a notch. Holder may well have a "make my day" opinion on the contempt vote.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Grassley to Holder - Prove It

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, in response to questions by Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Holder said, “An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them - nothing. Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

 

Mr. Holder was referring to Mr. Mukasey, who served as the nation’s top prosecutor in the Bush administration from November 2007 to January 2009.

 

“That’s a serious charge,” Mr. Grassley said. “The problem is we have absolutely zero evidence that it’s true. Nothing in the documents produced by the Justice Department and no information provided by any whistleblowers that I know of suggests that Attorney General Mukasey was ever briefed about Wide Receiver. Period.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

Mr. Grassley said the highest-ranking Justice Department official he is aware of who knew about gunwalking in Wide Receiver is Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. He said Mr. Breuer did nothing to stop the ATF from walking guns in Fast and Furious after learning about it in April 2010.

 

“If Attorney General Holder wants to criticize senior department officials who knew about gunwalking and did nothing, he should start with the current head of his own Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer,” he said.

 

 

 

Agent Terry was killed in December. Grassley wrote to Holder with questions in January. Breuer was in charge of answering those questions. By February 4th, he failed to discover something he knew back in 2010: that the ATF walked guns. No one in the adminstration managed to discover that until months later, when the letter was finally withdrawn.

[Mark K 2,321]

Grassley to Holder - Prove It

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, in response to questions by Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Holder said, “An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them - nothing. Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

 

Mr. Holder was referring to Mr. Mukasey, who served as the nation’s top prosecutor in the Bush administration from November 2007 to January 2009.

 

“That’s a serious charge,” Mr. Grassley said. “The problem is we have absolutely zero evidence that it’s true. Nothing in the documents produced by the Justice Department and no information provided by any whistleblowers that I know of suggests that Attorney General Mukasey was ever briefed about Wide Receiver. Period.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

Mr. Grassley said the highest-ranking Justice Department official he is aware of who knew about gunwalking in Wide Receiver is Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. He said Mr. Breuer did nothing to stop the ATF from walking guns in Fast and Furious after learning about it in April 2010.

 

“If Attorney General Holder wants to criticize senior department officials who knew about gunwalking and did nothing, he should start with the current head of his own Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer,” he said.

 

 

 

Agent Terry was killed in December. Grassley wrote to Holder with questions in January. Breuer was in charge of answering those questions. By February 4th, he failed to discover something he knew back in 2010: that the ATF walked guns. No one in the adminstration managed to discover that until months later, when the letter was finally withdrawn.

 

Re bolded: Perhaps Issa should as well.

[Saorsa 48]

Grassley to Holder - Prove It

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, in response to questions by Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Holder said, “An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them - nothing. Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

 

Mr. Holder was referring to Mr. Mukasey, who served as the nation’s top prosecutor in the Bush administration from November 2007 to January 2009.

 

“That’s a serious charge,” Mr. Grassley said. “The problem is we have absolutely zero evidence that it’s true. Nothing in the documents produced by the Justice Department and no information provided by any whistleblowers that I know of suggests that Attorney General Mukasey was ever briefed about Wide Receiver. Period.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

Mr. Grassley said the highest-ranking Justice Department official he is aware of who knew about gunwalking in Wide Receiver is Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. He said Mr. Breuer did nothing to stop the ATF from walking guns in Fast and Furious after learning about it in April 2010.

 

“If Attorney General Holder wants to criticize senior department officials who knew about gunwalking and did nothing, he should start with the current head of his own Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer,” he said.

 

 

 

Agent Terry was killed in December. Grassley wrote to Holder with questions in January. Breuer was in charge of answering those questions. By February 4th, he failed to discover something he knew back in 2010: that the ATF walked guns. No one in the adminstration managed to discover that until months later, when the letter was finally withdrawn.

 

Re bolded: Perhaps Issa should as well.

congress is supposed to bypass the administrations cabinet officers to interrogate underlings?

[Mark K 2,321]

Grassley to Holder - Prove It

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, in response to questions by Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Holder said, “An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them - nothing. Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

 

Mr. Holder was referring to Mr. Mukasey, who served as the nation’s top prosecutor in the Bush administration from November 2007 to January 2009.

 

“That’s a serious charge,” Mr. Grassley said. “The problem is we have absolutely zero evidence that it’s true. Nothing in the documents produced by the Justice Department and no information provided by any whistleblowers that I know of suggests that Attorney General Mukasey was ever briefed about Wide Receiver. Period.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

Mr. Grassley said the highest-ranking Justice Department official he is aware of who knew about gunwalking in Wide Receiver is Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. He said Mr. Breuer did nothing to stop the ATF from walking guns in Fast and Furious after learning about it in April 2010.

 

“If Attorney General Holder wants to criticize senior department officials who knew about gunwalking and did nothing, he should start with the current head of his own Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer,” he said.

 

 

 

Agent Terry was killed in December. Grassley wrote to Holder with questions in January. Breuer was in charge of answering those questions. By February 4th, he failed to discover something he knew back in 2010: that the ATF walked guns. No one in the adminstration managed to discover that until months later, when the letter was finally withdrawn.

 

Re bolded: Perhaps Issa should as well.

congress is supposed to bypass the administrations cabinet officers to interrogate underlings?

 

They do so all the time. Melson, Bruer, Voth...have all been curiously missing or making but bit appearances in the hearings, and these are the people everybody knows had direct knowledge. This is consistant with Cummings comments that Issa knows that he had been asking for things that Holder is legally barred from providing or commenting on detail on at this time, due to on-going investigations leading to possible prosecutions.

 

Had been, because per things I have already posted, Issa narrowed his request this week to some E-mails, which Holder agreed to provide, possibly ending the call for a contempt of Congress vote.

[Saorsa 48]

Grassley to Holder - Prove It

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, in response to questions by Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Holder said, “An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them - nothing. Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

 

Mr. Holder was referring to Mr. Mukasey, who served as the nation’s top prosecutor in the Bush administration from November 2007 to January 2009.

 

“That’s a serious charge,” Mr. Grassley said. “The problem is we have absolutely zero evidence that it’s true. Nothing in the documents produced by the Justice Department and no information provided by any whistleblowers that I know of suggests that Attorney General Mukasey was ever briefed about Wide Receiver. Period.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

Mr. Grassley said the highest-ranking Justice Department official he is aware of who knew about gunwalking in Wide Receiver is Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. He said Mr. Breuer did nothing to stop the ATF from walking guns in Fast and Furious after learning about it in April 2010.

 

“If Attorney General Holder wants to criticize senior department officials who knew about gunwalking and did nothing, he should start with the current head of his own Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer,” he said.

 

 

 

Agent Terry was killed in December. Grassley wrote to Holder with questions in January. Breuer was in charge of answering those questions. By February 4th, he failed to discover something he knew back in 2010: that the ATF walked guns. No one in the adminstration managed to discover that until months later, when the letter was finally withdrawn.

 

Re bolded: Perhaps Issa should as well.

congress is supposed to bypass the administrations cabinet officers to interrogate underlings?

 

They do so all the time. Melson, Bruer, Voth...have all been curiously missing or making but bit appearances in the hearings, and these are the people everybody knows had direct knowledge. This is consistant with Cummings comments that Issa knows that he had been asking for things that Holder is legally barred from providing or commenting on detail on at this time, due to on-going investigations leading to possible prosecutions.

 

Had been, because per things I have already posted, Issa narrowed his request this week to some E-mails, which Holder agreed to provide, possibly ending the call for a contempt of Congress vote.

Legally barred from providing? If that is true, congress should change those laws that they shouldn't have passed in the first place.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Saorsa, keeping ongoing investigations secret is legitimate, which is why it is a popular tactic when it is not legitimate.

 

Meanwhile, there are still questions about the gunwalking that seems to have happened in Texas. It seems that Agent Zapata had been investigating Fast and Furious weapons prior to his death.

 

Congressional investigators permitted to view Department of Homeland Security documents related to the Fast and Furious operation have located and seen an Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Report of Investigation (ROI) from August 2010 describing 80 weapons seized in an arms smuggling interdiction between Phoenix, Arizona and San Antonio, Texas. Of these weapons, the majority (approximately 50) were noted to have come from Operation Fast & Furious in Arizona, purchased by Uriel Patino and Jacob Chambers. The ROI was written and signed by Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent Jaime Zapata, who was shot dead in an ambush at a fake roadblock in San Luis Potosí, Mexico on 15 February 2011. At the time of the report, Agent Zapata was assigned to the Laredo office.

 

Two of the weapons found at the murder scene were later traced back to Texas -- One was purchased in August 2010 near Houston on behalf of accused drug dealer Manuel Gomez Barba, and the other in October 2010 by a Dallas trafficking ring that included Otilio Osorio and his brother Ranferi. Much like Fast and Furious, both groups had been under ATF surveillance for many months, although ATF officials in Texas later denied that any gunwalking happened in their state. United State Senator John Cornyn has pressed Eric Holder and DOJ for details on any gunwalking in Texas. So far, he has been met with denials or silence.

[Saorsa 48]

Saorsa, keeping ongoing investigations secret is legitimate, which is why it is a popular tactic when it is not legitimate.

 

Meanwhile, there are still questions about the gunwalking that seems to have happened in Texas. It seems that Agent Zapata had been investigating Fast and Furious weapons prior to his death.

 

Congressional investigators permitted to view Department of Homeland Security documents related to the Fast and Furious operation have located and seen an Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Report of Investigation (ROI) from August 2010 describing 80 weapons seized in an arms smuggling interdiction between Phoenix, Arizona and San Antonio, Texas. Of these weapons, the majority (approximately 50) were noted to have come from Operation Fast & Furious in Arizona, purchased by Uriel Patino and Jacob Chambers. The ROI was written and signed by Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent Jaime Zapata, who was shot dead in an ambush at a fake roadblock in San Luis Potosí, Mexico on 15 February 2011. At the time of the report, Agent Zapata was assigned to the Laredo office.

 

Two of the weapons found at the murder scene were later traced back to Texas -- One was purchased in August 2010 near Houston on behalf of accused drug dealer Manuel Gomez Barba, and the other in October 2010 by a Dallas trafficking ring that included Otilio Osorio and his brother Ranferi. Much like Fast and Furious, both groups had been under ATF surveillance for many months, although ATF officials in Texas later denied that any gunwalking happened in their state. United State Senator John Cornyn has pressed Eric Holder and DOJ for details on any gunwalking in Texas. So far, he has been met with denials or silence.

I completely understand that. In this case, the investigation is not about sources and methods since some of those have already been compromised.

 

Everybody wants credit for the death of OBL but, nobody accepts responsibility for the death of Brian Terry.

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Obama Invokes Executive Privilege over Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Congress.

 

That will not go over well.

[TMSAIL 60]

Obama Invokes Executive Privilege over Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Congress.

 

That will not go over well.

Just heard it on the radio

 

In order to invoke executive privilege on the subpoenaed documents don't the documents have to involve - well the president?

 

It really begs the question What are they hiding?

[Jim M 0]

Los Angeles Times | June 20, 2012 | 1:33 PM "A House committee voted today to find Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt of Congress for failing to provide subpoenaed documents in the flawed Fast and Furious gun-tracking case.

 

The 23-17 vote was along party lines, with Republicans voting in favor and Democrats voting against. It came just hours after President Obama asserted executive privilege and backed the attorney general's refusal to release the material.

 

The entire House would have to approve the measure before it could refer the case to the U.S. attorney in Washington to determine whether prosecution is warranted for failing to comply with a congressional subpoena".

 

 

[Jay W 0]

Nice game of "chicken" going on here. Gets the popcorn popping.

[Noztradamus 0]

Obama Invokes Executive Privilege over Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Congress.

 

That will not go over well.

Just heard it on the radio

 

In order to invoke executive privilege on the subpoenaed documents don't the documents have to involve - well the president?

 

It really begs the question What are they hiding?

 

"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal "

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Oops, another retraction from the DOJ.

 

Grassley asks the President to detail scope of executive privilege claim for Fast and Furious

[TMSAIL 60]

Oops, another retraction from the DOJ.

 

Grassley asks the President to detail scope of executive privilege claim for Fast and Furious

Just curious. When does it become lying to congress? They just went after a major league pitcher for not telling the truth at a congressional hearing. Why is this DOJ simply allowed to say sorry I misspoke the first lie was on the table for months and would still be there if other facts had not proved it was a lie.

[Jim M 0]

I'm reminded that the good Republicans in Congress couldn't read the 2,000 page Health Care Act when it was published, but now are so anxious to read the 18,000 pages Holder is said to be sitting on. LMAO

[Mark K 2,321]

Oops, another retraction from the DOJ.

 

Grassley asks the President to detail scope of executive privilege claim for Fast and Furious

 

Mixed blessing. If Mukasey didn't even know about Wide Receiver, it makes Holders claim of not being in on the details of F&F more credible.

[Sol Rosenberg 10,141]

There seems to be some blood rushing to the head....

[Pertinacious Tom 1,922]

Oops, another retraction from the DOJ.

 

Grassley asks the President to detail scope of executive privilege claim for Fast and Furious

 

Mixed blessing. If Mukasey didn't even know about Wide Receiver, it makes Holders claim of not being in on the details of F&F more credible.

 

It speaks to knowledge of the operation, but not the coverup. The February 4, 2011 letter to Congress denying that the ATF walked guns has no precedent from the prior administration. Eric Holder claimed later that Spring to have only heard about Fast and Furious a few weeks before and the DOJ stood by that letter for some time after his testimony before admitting it was false and withdrawing it.

[Olsonist 3,530]

Yawn.