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Obama's Mexican Gunrunning Operation


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I double checked on Melson. He didn't resign, he was transferred. http://www.politico....0811/62320.html

 

Rather than stringing him up by his balls, they gave him a nice cushy job where he doesn't have to make any decisions.

 

I believe sinecure is the word you are looking for, and yes, like everything else here except the claim of executive privilege, it has been discussed before.

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It's Judge Jackson or Judge Berman Jackson. It isn't Judge Berman unless you're watching reality court TV at the laundromat. Actually, I did mean only those documents. Again, the Kenyan’s EP was

Maybe he'll be nicer now that his period is over.

People who have time to read things like the relevant Inspector General's report instead of just spewing insults and talking points know that the reality is that the stupid program was shut down under

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I don't think this has been brought up. http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/303808

 

Understanding this calls for some “inside baseball” about how the Justice Department works. In particular, you’ll want to introduce yourself to “OCDETF,” a term near and dear to the DOJ heart, though one unknown to the public — and boy, does the administration ever want to keep it that way.

 

OCDETF stands for the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force. It was created during the Reagan administration to throw the coordinated muscle of Justice’s component investigative agencies — especially the FBI and the DEA — at domestic and international organized crime, a scourge that had been dramatically exacerbated by unprecedented drug-trafficking millions.

 

I was working at the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan at the dawn of OCDETF — which at DOJ is referred to as if it were a word, “Osedef.” In those days, with New York City both the notorious capital of La Cosa Nostra and the target market of Colombian drug cartels, I was fortunate to be assigned to some of the original “Osedef cases.”

 

Very soon, everybody wanted to work on them, and investigative agencies jabbed their sharpest elbows in the competition to have their prize investigations designated OCDETF. The reason was straightforward: OCDETF cases were the cases the Justice Department cared about, meaning: They were the cases that got bottomless funding and extensive resources.

 

OCDETF cases are Justice’s crown jewels: the investigations that go on for months (sometimes more than a year) and result in vast arrest sweeps, bells-and-whistles press conferences, high-profile trials, and epic convictions and sentences. To carry such cases off demands mega manpower. Besides developing and exploiting informants, the agencies infiltrate criminal conspiracies with undercover agents, use the information gathered as the basis for wiretaps, and coordinate this eavesdropping with physical surveillance. It takes scores of agents to monitor bugs, conduct sometimes 24/7 spying on multiple subjects, and manage informants, who tend to be very high-maintenance. This costs money, lots of money.

 

OCDETF money pours out, but not without one very big string attached: the involvement of Justice Department headquarters in Washington — known as “Main Justice” in DOJ circles.

 

The vast majority of federal criminal investigations have virtually nothing to do with Main Justice. They are run exclusively by the local district U.S. attorney’s offices (of which there are 94 throughout the country), working in each case with the field offices of a federal investigative agency: FBI, DEA, ATF, Secret Service, postal inspectors, etc. Almost never do these mundane cases involve wiretaps or multiple agencies conducting extensive surveillance. When they end successfully, the investigative agency and the U.S. attorney may put out a press release to the local media, but no one in Washington ever hears about them.

 

OCDETF cases are very different. They get to the front of the line when it comes to resources, particularly wiretapping — one of the only investigative techniques for which federal law requires approval by the attorney general or his designee (a top DOJ official) before the investigating agency and the district U.S. attorney may seek court approval. (For example, no Main Justice green-light is needed to seek a search warrant, make an arrest, flip an informant, convene a grand jury, issue a subpoena, or collect evidence in sundry other ways.)

 

Moreover, as you might expect, given that the “OC” in OCDETF stands for “Organized Crime,” OCDETF investigations almost always contemplate — and frequently indict — racketeering charges under RICO (the statute outlawing “Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations”). RICO is one of the few federal laws under which a district U.S. attorney needs permission from Main Justice before indicting.

 

Why go through all of this detail? Because the Obama administration has offered a palpably false narrative about Fast and Furious. It is this: Acting on their own, recklessly irresponsible ATF agents in Arizona — under the ostensible direction of the local U.S. attorney, who was actually asleep at the switch — dreamed up the Fast and Furious investigation, with its rogue “gunwalking” tactic. Against all government protocols, thousands of firearms were allowed to be transferred from “straw purchasers” to violent Mexican drug gangs, in the vain hope that they’d turn up in crime scenes and searches of high-ranking cartel operatives, enabling the U.S. government to make spectacular cases against the kingpins rather than the low-ranking nobodies.

 

This went on for a time with inadequate supervision, and, predictably, when the arsenal fell into the hands of the savage criminals, it resulted in violent crimes, including murders — murders that tragically included Agent Terry’s. Finally, word of the operation slowly made it across the country to Washington, where Obama DOJ appointees raised concerns with top ATF officials. Though they may be faulted for moving too slowly, eventually these DOJ appointees alerted their boss, Attorney General Holder, who was horrified and acted decisively to shut the operation down.

 

Bunk. In fact, Fast and Furious was an OCDETF case. That made it a Main Justice case, not the orphan Arizona debacle of media portrayal.

 

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Well Darrel Issa contradicted John Boehner this morning when he said he had no evidence the White House was involved with Fast & Furious, he also added that he had no evidence that Attorney General Holder was involved. When questioned further by Chris Wallace he did say:

 

"We have emails from people who are involved in this who are talking about using what they're finding to support an assault weapons ban," Issa said. "So chicken or egg, which came first, we'll probably never know."

 

So, after months of investigation, thousands upon thousands of pages of documents and testimony, Issa goes on four Sunday talk show to spout this? Maybe we need a special prosecutor to investigate Darrel Issa.

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So, after months of investigation, thousands upon thousands of pages of documents and testimony, Issa goes on four Sunday talk show to spout this? Maybe we need a special prosecutor to investigate Darrel Issa.

 

He's been vetted very well already. He's a complete criminal in multiple ways!

Only a very few members of Congress have auto theft, arson, insurance fraud, etc on their resumes. Some real winners from S. Kali - did Issa take the position vacated by the King of Whores, Duke Cunningham? Close by, in any case.

 

You'd think the GOP - with it's purity of ethics and morals - would disqualify folks with a past like his.

 

Still, it appears he did tell the truth today. Good for him! He's on a Witch Hunt and it probably will not end as well as he first thought.

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Say here Cummings is working on a deal with Boehner to release the docs. Probably for the deal mentioned last week, no more contempt BS. I would guess establishing some limit to the scope of the hunt as well.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/24/issa-wont-back-fast-and-furious-conspiracy-theory/

sounds like another stalling tactic. Bluster and condemnation didn't work so, the appearance of compromise is next.

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Say here Cummings is working on a deal with Boehner to release the docs. Probably for the deal mentioned last week, no more contempt BS. I would guess establishing some limit to the scope of the hunt as well.

 

http://www.washingto...spiracy-theory/

 

I would like to know what he means by he hopes the investigation "stays at justice" because he does not have the option of pursuing through the courts

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Say here Cummings is working on a deal with Boehner to release the docs. Probably for the deal mentioned last week, no more contempt BS. I would guess establishing some limit to the scope of the hunt as well.

 

http://www.washingto...spiracy-theory/

 

I would like to know what he means by he hopes the investigation "stays at justice" because he does not have the option of pursuing through the courts

I think he's afraid it might stray to somewhere above the DOJ.

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Say here Cummings is working on a deal with Boehner to release the docs. Probably for the deal mentioned last week, no more contempt BS. I would guess establishing some limit to the scope of the hunt as well.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/24/issa-wont-back-fast-and-furious-conspiracy-theory/

sounds like another stalling tactic. Bluster and condemnation didn't work so, the appearance of compromise is next.

 

Boehner is in a tricky spot. He must have something in exchange for not putting this on the floor. Issa says he has no evidence. They go full bore on this and turn up jack, they could wind up looking like a bunch of assholes.

 

Special prosecutors can cut both ways. They might find a conspiracy to take-R-gunz, they might find a Monica, but they might find that Issa has been an asshole and write a great big report detailing exactly why.

 

Looks to me Holder and Obama are willing to go to the mat on this. Boehner has to weigh a lot of factors here.

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Say here Cummings is working on a deal with Boehner to release the docs. Probably for the deal mentioned last week, no more contempt BS. I would guess establishing some limit to the scope of the hunt as well.

 

http://www.washingto...spiracy-theory/

 

I would like to know what he means by he hopes the investigation "stays at justice" because he does not have the option of pursuing through the courts

I think he's afraid it might stray to somewhere above the DOJ.

 

I don't see how that could happen since he's already publicly admitted that he has no evidence against either Obama or Holder.

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Notice how both the headline and the people here are editing out. SO FAR. When Issa was asked about White House involvement. Classic case of seeing what you want to see. I came away with a different view of what Issa is saying. The NOT BACKING DOWN FROM

CONTEMPT is a bit of a clue that holding Holder in contempt is not simply BS.

 

He also repeated the possibility that the whole operation was about tighter gun control laws

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He also repeated the possibility that the whole operation was about tighter gun control laws

 

If it is uncovered that this investigation was merely to put a monkey wrench in that idea who loses? I imagine only an idiot would think that the House could not get more unpopular in the minds of the public.

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He also repeated the possibility that the whole operation was about tighter gun control laws

 

If it is uncovered that this investigation was merely to put a monkey wrench in that idea who loses? I imagine only an idiot would think that the House could not get more unpopular in the minds of the public.

You do understand that the unpopularity of congress is not limited to republicans?

 

Holder lied to congress.

 

The DOJ under his leadership submitted a false written statements to congress.

 

This vote shoud have been months ago

 

He was never qualified to be AG after getting Bill Clinton to pardon one of the DOJ's most wanted, Mark Rich.

 

If he wasn't Obamas buddy he would be long gone.

 

Fine with me he could well be the straw that breaks Obama's reelection hopes.

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He also repeated the possibility that the whole operation was about tighter gun control laws

 

If it is uncovered that this investigation was merely to put a monkey wrench in that idea who loses? I imagine only an idiot would think that the House could not get more unpopular in the minds of the public.

You do understand that the unpopularity of congress is not limited to republicans?

 

Holder lied to congress.

 

The DOJ under his leadership submitted a false written statements to congress.

 

This vote shoud have been months ago

 

He was never qualified to be AG after getting Bill Clinton to pardon one of the DOJ's most wanted, Mark Rich.

 

If he wasn't Obamas buddy he would be long gone.

 

Fine with me he could well be the straw that breaks Obama's reelection hopes.

 

I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

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If Holder goes down he takes Obama with him. That was clear when Obama raised the stakes with the executive priveledge claim. This will create a constitutional crisis and I don't think Obama minds as it takes the bad economy off the front page.

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

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. SO FAR. When Issa was asked about White House involvement.

 

Well, I'm sitting here on the pier on a fishing expedition.

 

SO FAR I have not caught a fish. I MAY catch a fish. That fish may bleed all over the papers I have in my lap and change the Health Care law.

 

Or, it may be mercury tainted and poison me.

 

Then again, it may be like most fish and be thrown back or eaten and enjoyed.

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Nonsense. The typical voter could care less about Holder and by Novembner will have no memory or have any idea what the fuss in June was even about.

 

Yeah, but guys like Tom may figure out how to have 10 votes. He likes guys like Rick Scott who invite criminal illegals to take Americans jobs in Florida....

 

All BS aside, there is a real political issue with ALL this BS, from Tom's gun fetish to Obamacare, etc.

 

That is, are all of those minds already made up? You can only die once, and a person can only vote for against one person or for another once. So if all the righties are jumping up and down about 10 issues - or 7 issues, it does not (IMHO) matter one bit. If NONE of these issues existed - or, more accurately, if they failed to MAKE THEM UP, they would STILL vote against Obama.

 

IMHO, that is the real issue of the upcoming election. What is the really independent voter going to do where it counts? I could go to the polls and vote for Romney and it won't matter one iota - although my vote for or against Scott Brown will.

 

But will a fellow commonwealth citizen vote against Warren because she is not a Cherokee - or against Brown because he hobnobs with CEOSs, Kings and Queens? That is yet to be determined. No matter how loud we each cry and scream, we only have one vote each - that is, unless any of us are the billionaires who finance Romney.

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Nonsense. The typical voter could care less about Holder and by Novembner will have no memory or have any idea what the fuss in June was even about.

 

Yeah, but guys like Tom may figure out how to have 10 votes. He likes guys like Rick Scott who invite criminal illegals to take Americans jobs in Florida....

 

All BS aside, there is a real political issue with ALL this BS, from Tom's gun fetish to Obamacare, etc.

 

That is, are all of those minds already made up? You can only die once, and a person can only vote for against one person or for another once. So if all the righties are jumping up and down about 10 issues - or 7 issues, it does not (IMHO) matter one bit. If NONE of these issues existed - or, more accurately, if they failed to MAKE THEM UP, they would STILL vote against Obama.

 

IMHO, that is the real issue of the upcoming election. What is the really independent voter going to do where it counts? I could go to the polls and vote for Romney and it won't matter one iota - although my vote for or against Scott Brown will.

 

But will a fellow commonwealth citizen vote against Warren because she is not a Cherokee - or against Brown because he hobnobs with CEOSs, Kings and Queens? That is yet to be determined. No matter how loud we each cry and scream, we only have one vote each - that is, unless any of us are the billionaires who finance Romney.

You clearly have never followed Chicago politics often the dead do get to vote.

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You clearly have never followed Chicago politics often the dead do get to vote.

 

Chicago politics and Diebold voting machines and SCOTUS decisions to give the guy with less votes the Presidency aside.....

 

In the USA, you have to win an election by a pretty good amount of votes to REALLY win.

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You clearly have never followed Chicago politics often the dead do get to vote.

 

Chicago politics and Diebold voting machines and SCOTUS decisions to give the guy with less votes the Presidency aside.....

 

In the USA, you have to win an election by a pretty good amount of votes to REALLY win.

WOW I guess you never heard of the Electoral College?

 

Better read up on it because it could come into play this year. :rolleyes:

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

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Corbis-42-17996377.jpg?size=67&uid=1600ca8a-02c8-4dcd-ba38-4922fd8bf896

I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

 

Issa said he does not have evidence that Holder and Obama participated in the coverup. He has received less than 10% of the documents under subpoena, most of those redacted. Of course he has no evidence as yet. Does that mean it does not exist?

 

The failed attempts to make this about oversight of an administration no longer in power or about changing the rules instead of overseeing how they are observed will continue to fail. The oversight committee is not charged with righting all of history's wrongs. They oversee the government. The current one. They are also not in charge of writing new gun control laws.

 

If you get called to "the room" after a race, do you debate what happened in past races? The rightness of the RRS? Or the incident at hand? The Dems want to debate stuff that happened in the past and whether the rules are right because it helps distract from the serious wrongdoing.

 

Knowingly selling thousands of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious wrongdoing, even if the government does it. Ordering an agent to follow a straw buyer and let the guns walk is an order NOT to track the guns. I know you are having trouble facing those uncomfortable truths, but I figure if I expose you to them often enough, they may get through. ;)

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

 

Issa said he does not have evidence that Holder and Obama participated in the coverup. He has received less than 10% of the documents under subpoena, most of those redacted. Of course he has no evidence as yet. Does that mean it does not exist?

 

The failed attempts to make this about oversight of an administration no longer in power or about changing the rules instead of overseeing how they are observed will continue to fail. The oversight committee is not charged with righting all of history's wrongs. They oversee the government. The current one. They are also not in charge of writing new gun control laws.

 

If you get called to "the room" after a race, do you debate what happened in past races? The rightness of the RRS? Or the incident at hand? The Dems want to debate stuff that happened in the past and whether the rules are right because it helps distract from the serious wrongdoing.

 

Knowingly selling thousands of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious wrongdoing, even if the government does it. Ordering an agent to follow a straw buyer and let the guns walk is an order NOT to track the guns. I know you are having trouble facing those uncomfortable truths, but I figure if I expose you to them often enough, they may get through. ;)

The Left is just getting up to speed - Blame Bush, Blame the committee, Blame the GOP, hell call it an attempt at Voter suppression (that's my favorite so far) it is all about deflection away from the bold part in your post.

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and062112blog2.jpg

I guess the arrow points to the two US agents killed the rest must be the hundreds of Mexican nationals killed. I guess they don't count - Was it because they have darker skin?

 

 

 

In a conference call this morning with Chairman of the House Oversight Committee Darrell Issa, reporters were told the Attorney General in Mexico has confirmed at least 200 murders south of the border happened as a result of Operation Fast and Furious.

 

“I would be remiss if I didn’t mention, as the Attorney General in Mexico is so concerned, she’s made the point that at least 200 Mexicans have been killed with these weapons and probably countless more,” Issa said.

 

Eleven crimes in the United States have been linked to Operation Fast and Furious up to this point. Issa said he expects as the investigation in the operation continues, more crimes connected to Fast and Furious will come to light and be exposed. This is not surprising, considering out of 2500 weapons the Obama Justice Department allowed to “walk,” and that only 600 have been recovered, the rest are lost until they show up at violent crime scenes. The damage from Operation Fast and Furious has only started to be seen.

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and062112blog2.jpg

 

Actually, the only bloodshed that seemed to matter was that of Agent Terry. Hundreds of Mexicans died and F & F weapons were recovered at their crime scenes. The ATF supervisors were jubilant when that happened, as it showed the program was "working." Working to do what remains unanswered.

 

As far as US purchased guns go, I think the 76% that come from the military and government-approved direct commercial sales are a bigger factor than the 24% from the retail market. All of which ignores foreign sources of Mexican guns.

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How many Mexicans and others have been killed by the TOTAL amount of US made weapons.....near or over the border? I suspect it is tens of thousands.

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How many Mexicans and others have been killed by the TOTAL amount of US made weapons.....near or over the border? I suspect it is tens of thousands.

At least don't forget the Alamo

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Yeah, but guys like Tom may figure out how to have 10 votes. He likes guys like Rick Scott who invite criminal illegals to take Americans jobs in Florida....

 

All BS aside, there is a real political issue with ALL this BS, from Tom's gun fetish to Obamacare, etc.

 

That is, are all of those minds already made up? You can only die once, and a person can only vote for against one person or for another once. So if all the righties are jumping up and down about 10 issues - or 7 issues, it does not (IMHO) matter one bit. If NONE of these issues existed - or, more accurately, if they failed to MAKE THEM UP, they would STILL vote against Obama.

 

 

Hey Craig,

 

Try to intergrate these facts into your messenger attacks:

 

I never voted for Rick Scott and never will.

 

Romney is the only person running who has virtually zero chance of getting my vote.

 

Sorry to take away some of your best material, but I do have this urge to point out facts.

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and062112blog2.jpg

I guess the arrow points to the two US agents killed the rest must be the hundreds of Mexican nationals killed. I guess they don't count - Was it because they have darker skin?

 

 

 

In a conference call this morning with Chairman of the House Oversight Committee Darrell Issa, reporters were told the Attorney General in Mexico has confirmed at least 200 murders south of the border happened as a result of Operation Fast and Furious.

 

“I would be remiss if I didn’t mention, as the Attorney General in Mexico is so concerned, she’s made the point that at least 200 Mexicans have been killed with these weapons and probably countless more,” Issa said.

 

Eleven crimes in the United States have been linked to Operation Fast and Furious up to this point. Issa said he expects as the investigation in the operation continues, more crimes connected to Fast and Furious will come to light and be exposed. This is not surprising, considering out of 2500 weapons the Obama Justice Department allowed to “walk,” and that only 600 have been recovered, the rest are lost until they show up at violent crime scenes. The damage from Operation Fast and Furious has only started to be seen.

Those guns didnt jump up off of a table and kill those 200. Irresponsible owners did.

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

 

Issa said he does not have evidence that Holder and Obama participated in the coverup. He has received less than 10% of the documents under subpoena, most of those redacted. Of course he has no evidence as yet. Does that mean it does not exist?

 

The failed attempts to make this about oversight of an administration no longer in power or about changing the rules instead of overseeing how they are observed will continue to fail. The oversight committee is not charged with righting all of history's wrongs. They oversee the government. The current one. They are also not in charge of writing new gun control laws.

 

If you get called to "the room" after a race, do you debate what happened in past races? The rightness of the RRS? Or the incident at hand? The Dems want to debate stuff that happened in the past and whether the rules are right because it helps distract from the serious wrongdoing.

 

Knowingly selling thousands of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious wrongdoing, even if the government does it. Ordering an agent to follow a straw buyer and let the guns walk is an order NOT to track the guns. I know you are having trouble facing those uncomfortable truths, but I figure if I expose you to them often enough, they may get through. ;)

 

Issa has subpoenaed documents that are part of grand jury testimony and or are part of ongoing investigations and prosecutions. Justice has made it clear that supplying these documents would seriously compromise its mission, and would be in violation of Federal law to present to the committee. So please tell me how does Holder present documents without breaking the law to do so?

 

I’ll be bold enough to say that after nearly two years of investigation and committee hearings with 7,600 documents that the committee is grasping at straws. They are simply trying to explore ways to further embarrass an elected president.

 

Democrats just want a fair hearing and a just exploration of the facts. When you keep certain individuals out of that investigation and cry about having to produce a full discovery of those facts it just cheapens their mission and wholesale pursuit of justice.

 

Knowingly selling guns to cartel straw buyers is wrongdoing and I completely agree, yet it appears that Issa’s sole purpose is to maximize embarrassment for this administration because this sting, intended to bring members of Mexico’s dangerous drug cartels to justice, failed to work out as planned. That he would pursue a contempt charge even in the face of the assertion of Executive privilege, which renders his charge a certain loser in any court that still honors Nixon-Reagan-Bush era precedents, is clear indication of its extreme partisan bias.

 

 

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I agree that Holder is less than perfect, but whether he is worth this much trouble is questionable. Are we really going to continue playing this game each time the other side is up? Take them out at every opportunity? I say get to work and fix the lousy country first.

 

That makes sense if you just refuse to accept the reality that there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case, and that the agents were ordered not to track the guns.

 

But knowingly selling thousand of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious criminal wrongdoing and there is no other way to interpret what the agents have said.

 

People like wabbit, Olsonist and yourself really amaze me sometimes. Did it really look to you like Agent Dodson was ordered to track the guns when he said he was repeatedly ordered to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk? The part about allowing the guns to walk looks to me like an order not to track the guns. What does it look like to you?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Tom,

 

I could care less if the investigation continues. Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. If there were serious wrongdoing, then I fully expect the investigation would have invited all of the previous administrations players who were purposely left out of the investigation, we did after all, want a complete and honest discovery of the facts, but apparently Issa was not willing to embarrass the previous administration or people with an R after their name. So while I hope the culprits who killed Agent Terry are found and prosecuted, I don't have a lot of hope about Issa's sincerity in discovering those facts.

Issa is quickly discovering that this dispute will be about Executive privilege and presidential internal email is off limits as the subject was successfully argued during the Bush Administration. Obama and Holder are not withholding embarrassing facts, they are protecting presidential privilege. If they allow Issa access they believe they weaken the power of the Executive.

This whole waste of government time simply boils down to no coverup, no scandal. If and when there is a contempt vote and it does not cross party lines, this issue will disappear into the cesspool of other Republican conspiracy theories.

 

Issa said he does not have evidence that Holder and Obama participated in the coverup. He has received less than 10% of the documents under subpoena, most of those redacted. Of course he has no evidence as yet. Does that mean it does not exist?

 

The failed attempts to make this about oversight of an administration no longer in power or about changing the rules instead of overseeing how they are observed will continue to fail. The oversight committee is not charged with righting all of history's wrongs. They oversee the government. The current one. They are also not in charge of writing new gun control laws.

 

If you get called to "the room" after a race, do you debate what happened in past races? The rightness of the RRS? Or the incident at hand? The Dems want to debate stuff that happened in the past and whether the rules are right because it helps distract from the serious wrongdoing.

 

Knowingly selling thousands of guns to cartel straw buyers is serious wrongdoing, even if the government does it. Ordering an agent to follow a straw buyer and let the guns walk is an order NOT to track the guns. I know you are having trouble facing those uncomfortable truths, but I figure if I expose you to them often enough, they may get through. ;)

 

Issa has subpoenaed documents that are part of grand jury testimony and or are part of ongoing investigations and prosecutions. Justice has made it clear that supplying these documents would seriously compromise its mission, and would be in violation of Federal law to present to the committee. So please tell me how does Holder present documents without breaking the law to do so?

 

I’ll be bold enough to say that after nearly two years of investigation and committee hearings with 7,600 documents that the committee is grasping at straws. They are simply trying to explore ways to further embarrass an elected president.

 

Democrats just want a fair hearing and a just exploration of the facts. When you keep certain individuals out of that investigation and cry about having to produce a full discovery of those facts it just cheapens their mission and wholesale pursuit of justice.

 

Knowingly selling guns to cartel straw buyers is wrongdoing and I completely agree, yet it appears that Issa’s sole purpose is to maximize embarrassment for this administration because this sting, intended to bring members of Mexico’s dangerous drug cartels to justice, failed to work out as planned. That he would pursue a contempt charge even in the face of the assertion of Executive privilege, which renders his charge a certain loser in any court that still honors Nixon-Reagan-Bush era precedents, is clear indication of its extreme partisan bias.

I believe the courts ruled against Nixon which led to his resignation, just saying.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-25/obama-executive-privilege-fight-with-house-recalls-watergate.html

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Had there been any criminal wrongdoing you would have seen arrests and convictions

 

 

Knowingly selling guns to cartel straw buyers is wrongdoing and I completely agree

 

OK. The claim is that Dennis Burke authorized it. It's not a particularly credible claim, but if we take it as true, why is he not facing charges? The gun dealers would be facing charges if someone did not authorize their actions. That means the said someone should be facing charges.

 

Anyway, glad that we now agree there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case. Now, as for this:

 

The deceitful allegation that the F&F guns were not tracked

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Do you think that the order to follow the straw buyers was an order not to track the guns, or not?

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Had there been any criminal wrongdoing you would have seen arrests and convictions

 

Knowingly selling guns to cartel straw buyers is wrongdoing and I completely agree

 

OK. The claim is that Dennis Burke authorized it. It's not a particularly credible claim, but if we take it as true, why is he not facing charges? The gun dealers would be facing charges if someone did not authorize their actions. That means the said someone should be facing charges.

 

Anyway, glad that we now agree there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case. Now, as for this:

 

The deceitful allegation that the F&F guns were not tracked

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Do you think that the order to follow the straw buyers was an order not to track the guns, or not?

 

After I read the testimony of the Arizona ATF chief, I might have a better idea of what really happened. Any idea when that will happen?

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I believe the courts ruled against Nixon which led to his resignation, just saying.

 

I imagine you're having a wet dream just pondering that. Yet you might want to read the whole article.

You claimed that the courts had upheld presidential procedures including Nixon. All I did was point out your error. I have zero desire to see Obama get forced out of office November will be soon enough

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1,366 replies (including this one), 20k+ views and zero interest in doing anything about all the weapons going into Mexico (except this one).

 

I knew you guys wouldn't appreciate the cartoon. Hey, Look - something (D)shiny!

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I believe the courts ruled against Nixon which led to his resignation, just saying.

 

I imagine you're having a wet dream just pondering that. Yet you might want to read the whole article.

You claimed that the courts had upheld presidential procedures including Nixon. All I did was point out your error. I have zero desire to see Obama get forced out of office November will be soon enough

 

The Supreme Court did not dismiss Nixon's claim but asserted that he exceeded his authority. Since Obama has complied with the House Committee, he does not fit in the Nixonian definition.

 

"The Supreme Court did not reject the claim of privilege out of hand; it noted, in fact, "the valid need for protection of communications between high Government officials and those who advise and assist them in the performance of their manifold duties" and that "[h]uman experience teaches that those who expect public dissemination of their remarks may well temper candor with a concern for appearances and for their own interests to the detriment of the decisionmaking process." This is very similar to the logic that the Court had used in establishing an "executive immunity" defense for high office-holders charged with violating citizens' constitutional rights in the course of performing their duties. The Supreme Court stated: "To read the Article II powers of the President as providing an absolute privilege as against a subpoena essential to enforcement of criminal statutes on no more than a generalized claim of the public interest in confidentiality of nonmilitary and nondiplomatic discussions would upset the constitutional balance of 'a workable government' and gravely impair the role of the courts under Article III." Because Nixon had asserted only a generalized need for confidentiality, the Court held that the larger public interest in obtaining the truth in the context of a criminal prosecution took precedence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_privilege

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Had there been any criminal wrongdoing you would have seen arrests and convictions

 

Knowingly selling guns to cartel straw buyers is wrongdoing and I completely agree

 

OK. The claim is that Dennis Burke authorized it. It's not a particularly credible claim, but if we take it as true, why is he not facing charges? The gun dealers would be facing charges if someone did not authorize their actions. That means the said someone should be facing charges.

 

Anyway, glad that we now agree there was serious criminal wrongdoing in this case. Now, as for this:

 

The deceitful allegation that the F&F guns were not tracked

 

dodsontestimony.gif

 

Do you think that the order to follow the straw buyers was an order not to track the guns, or not?

 

After I read the testimony of the Arizona ATF chief, I might have a better idea of what really happened. Any idea when that will happen?

 

Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

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Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

 

 

I think you know I'm talking about Kenneth Melson, let's throw in Celis-Acosta for good measure.

 

No, I'm unable to plumb the depths of your ignorance. Melson was not the Arizona ATF chief. When I read, "After I read the testimony of the Arizona ATF chief..." I assumed you knew who you were talking about. Sorry.

 

As for Melson, he was rewarded for his cooperation with Congress and got a pass and a sinecure job. I think a more appropriate reward would have been a better cell in a nicer prison.

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Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

I realize it's a typo, it's still clever.

 

I did not invent it. It was an actual term used by police when they would testify in cases my mother was prosecuting. I was young and rather shocked to learn that not only would cops sometimes lie in court, they had an actual word for it in their professional jargon.

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Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

I realize it's a typo, it's still clever.

 

I did not invent it. It was an actual term used by police when they would testify in cases my mother was prosecuting. I was young and rather shocked to learn that not only would cops sometimes lie in court, they had an actual word for it in their professional jargon.

 

What did Newell lie about? As I recall, he was a splendid dumbass, being proud of the whole thing.

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Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

 

 

I think you know I'm talking about Kenneth Melson, let's throw in Celis-Acosta for good measure.

 

No, I'm unable to plumb the depths of your ignorance. Melson was not the Arizona ATF chief. When I read, "After I read the testimony of the Arizona ATF chief..." I assumed you knew who you were talking about. Sorry.

 

As for Melson, he was rewarded for his cooperation with Congress and got a pass and a sinecure job. I think a more appropriate reward would have been a better cell in a nicer prison.

 

Oh excuse the fuck out of me, but he was the "acting head of the Arizona ATF" appointed by Alberto Gonzales, who gave "private" testimony to Darrell Issa, who I trust about as much as you to tell the truth. How about a "public" accounting of this matter like the one requested by minority member Elijah Cummings? so we can cut past the bullshit and get down to the truth.

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Oh excuse the fuck out of me, but he was the "acting head of the Arizona ATF" appointed by Alberto Gonzales, who gave "private" testimony to Darrell Issa, who I trust about as much as you to tell the truth. How about a "public" accounting of this matter like the one requested by minority member Elijah Cummings? so we can cut past the bullshit and get down to the truth.

 

He was acting ATF Director, meaning the whole thing, not a region, and his office was in Washington DC.

 

I want to know what he said too, but he cut a deal and got away. Like I said, I think that was wrong and he should have been cutting a deal for a better cell, not to get away. I feel the same way about Dennis Burke, by the way.

 

I think if they were facing time in a cell instead of time in their next job, they might just be inclined to talk a bit more.

 

Elijah Cummings lost all credibility with me when his initial report on gunwalking did not even mention the allegations of gunwalking, except an oblique reference to "troubling allegations." Sorry, but that's not oversight. If the allegations were troubling (and they were) then he should have said what they were and why they were troubling. He did not.

 

I would not trust Issa to investigate a Republican administration any more than I trust Cummings to investigate this one. Gridlock is good.

 

I still don't see why you need to hear from Melson in order to decide what Dodson's words mean. They're pretty plain. I could post Agent Casa's words again, but I'll try these one more time.

 

Was my allegation that he was ordered not to track the guns really deceitful like you said it was? Why?

 

dodsontestimony.gif

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Whenever you get around to it. Newell testilied a while back.

I realize it's a typo, it's still clever.

 

I did not invent it. It was an actual term used by police when they would testify in cases my mother was prosecuting. I was young and rather shocked to learn that not only would cops sometimes lie in court, they had an actual word for it in their professional jargon.

 

What did Newell lie about? As I recall, he was a splendid dumbass, being proud of the whole thing.

Chirpetty chirp chirp chirp. If a theory depends on ignoring testimony and imputing a devious motive without evidence of such a motive, it isn't much of a theory, is it?

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Newell was pretty proud of himself but basically filibustered and evaded when asked about keeping track of the guns.

 

Meanwhile, Grassley joins badlat in wanting to hear more from Melson.

 

...

 

“We need to see it [the email] to corroborate his testimony,” Grassley said during the June 12 hearing. “But the Department is withholding that email along with every other document after Feb. 4, 2011.”

 

...

Grassley pressed Holder on the question of how DOJ had the authority to withhold Melson’s email from Congress, a full week before President Obama indicated that he would invoke executive privilege to shield requested documents. At that time, Holder claimed the Melson email would not be protected by executive privilege.

 

“On what legal ground are you withholding that email?” He asked. “The president can’t claim executive privilege to withhold that email, is that correct?”

 

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The same day the SC announces their AHCA decision???

 

Won't that cost it some press attention?

 

Probably. Will that matter? The press that broke this scandal were the Sipsey Street Irregulars and Gun Rights Examiner. The scandal continued along without the Washington Post (or the minority committee report) mentioning the allegation that the ATF walked guns almost until the DOJ finally admitted the allegation was true. I suspect it will continue along despite being ignored as before.

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Well, well, well. Seems that there is not as much smoke as some people would like...

 

 

The same day the SC announces their AHCA decision???

 

Won't that cost it some press attention?

 

Probably. Will that matter? The press that broke this scandal were the Sipsey Street Irregulars and Gun Rights Examiner. The scandal continued along without the Washington Post (or the minority committee report) mentioning the allegation that the ATF walked guns almost until the DOJ finally admitted the allegation was true. I suspect it will continue along despite being ignored as before.

 

Not so fast.

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I thought Holder already admitted that guns were allowed to walk. Perhaps he should have waited for the Fortune investigation to conclude.

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If you ignore just the right aspects of this scandal, you can spin quite a story.

 

The aspect where Voth and Co. were telling gun dealers who did not want to make obviously illegal sales to go ahead, for example.

 

The emails make it pretty obvious what was going on:

 

The emails refer to meetings between the FFL and the U.S. Attorney‟s office to

address the concerns being raised by the FFL. ATF supervisor David Voth wrote on

April 13, 2010:

 

 

I understand that the frequency with which some individuals under

investigation by our office have been purchasing firearms from your

business has caused concerns for you. … However, if it helps put you at

ease we (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of

investigative techniques which I cannot go into [in] detail.1

 

 

In response, the gun dealer expresses concern about potential future liability and sought

something in writing to address the issue explicitly:

 

 

For us, we were hoping to put together something like a letter of

understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us

down the road for selling these items. We just want to make sure we are

cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to bad guys.2

 

 

Following this email, the ATF arranged a meeting between the FFL and the U.S.

Attorney‟s office. According to the FFL, the U.S. Attorney‟s office scheduled a follow-up

meeting with the FFL, but asked that the FFL‟s attorney not be present.3 <_<

 

 

At the meeting on May 13, 2010, the U.S. Attorney‟s office declined to provide

anything in writing but assured the gun dealer in even stronger terms that there were

safeguards in place to prevent further distribution of the weapons after being purchased

from his business.4 As we now know, those assurances proved to be untrue. On June

17, 2010, the gun dealer wrote to the ATF to again express concerns after seeing a report

on Fox News about firearms and the border:

 

The segment, if the information was correct, is disturbing to me. When

you, [the Assistant U.S. Attorney], and I met on May 13th, I shared my

concerns with you guys that I wanted to make sure that none of the

firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF

agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of

the bad guys. … I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk

of agents‟ safety because I have some very close friends that are U.S.

Border Patrol agents in southern AZ[.]5

 

Incredibly, the FFL sent this email six months before guns from the same ATF operation

were found at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry‟s murder. So, not only were

the ATF agents who later blew the whistle predicting that this operation would end in

tragedy, so were the gun dealers—even as ATF urged them to make the sales.

 

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Does anyone wonder why the dealer at Lone Wolf was taping Agent Sunshine Bear?

 

It was because someone at the ATF illegally leaked some information about his store to the Washington Post, who dutifully printed the propaganda line that bad gun dealers were running amok.

 

The dealer realized this information could only have come from the ATF agents who were working his store, but (obeying the law) he kept his mouth shut about the investigation as his name and business reputation were smeared.

 

After that, he didn't trust Miss Sunshine any more and started taping her.

 

I wonder how that failed to make it into the story that also ignored Voth's urging dealers to make illegal sales?

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Has the NRA explained why they have decided that Holder is contemptible?

 

No more than you ever explained the basis, if any, for this crazy speculation:

 

I'm thinking the NRA (a front for the gun manufacturers) wanted to tip their dealers that the ATF is running these stings big-time, and concocted a pile of nonsense about Obama wanting to arm drug lords in order to do that. Issa and Grassley are providing political cover for the NRA's blowing of a LE sting operation.

 

A real concern about ATF incompetence in an on-going covert operation in a foreign country has to be handled on the QT. They are instead deliberately seeking to make it as public as possible. Cui bono?

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It's not about election year politics for absolutely everyone. Hat tip to Collin Peterson (D) (Minn.)

 

Democratic Reps. John Barrow (Ga.), Collin Peterson (Minn.) and Nick Rahall (W.Va.) will all vote in favor of contempt in addition to Rep. Jim Matheson (Utah) when the measure comes to the House floor on Thursday.

 

...

 

A spokesman for Peterson told The Hill that the Minnesota Democrat also plans to support the contempt measure. Rahall's office also confirmed he would vote in favor of placing Holder in contempt.

 

Rahall is usually a GOP target given the nature of his district, while Peterson is generally considered safe this year.

 

 

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Has the NRA explained why they have decided that Holder is contemptible?

 

No more than you ever explained the basis, if any, for this crazy speculation:

 

I'm thinking the NRA (a front for the gun manufacturers) wanted to tip their dealers that the ATF is running these stings big-time, and concocted a pile of nonsense about Obama wanting to arm drug lords in order to do that. Issa and Grassley are providing political cover for the NRA's blowing of a LE sting operation.

 

A real concern about ATF incompetence in an on-going covert operation in a foreign country has to be handled on the QT. They are instead deliberately seeking to make it as public as possible. Cui bono?

 

So because I said that when this was breaking, La Pierre is correct?

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Issa has already cleared Obama and Holder, and has said they had no involvement in a coverup. ...

 

Issa said he does not have evidence that Holder and Obama participated in the coverup. He has received less than 10% of the documents under subpoena, most of those redacted. Of course he has no evidence as yet. Does that mean it does not exist?

 

 

Uh oh. We may not have seen everything he has... Issa Accuses Obama of Involvement in Fast and Furious

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And about catching up on basic facts about this scandal after ignoring it for a year and a half. For example:

 

Issa and more than 100 other Republican members of Congress have demanded Holder's resignation.

 

Just plain not true, and easily verifiable as not true. What kind of reporter makes such a basic mistake about her prime subject?

 

No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking

 

ITAR does, and semi auto weapons of .50 cal and below are right near the top of the munitions list. Again, easily verifiable as true.

 

I know what kind of reporter makes these kinds of mistakes and omits Voth's involvement with reassuring nervous dealers. One more interested in propaganda than truth.

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Tom, the reinforcements are here: Ann Coulter labels this "THE BIGGEST SCANDAL IN U.S. HISTORY".

Linky

Where would we be without Patriots like Ann?

 

I have no use for her, but she is far from the worst source on this story.

 

The Washington Post did not admit there were allegations of gunwalking until about a year ago. People depending on them and/or the first minority committee report to find out what had happened would have no idea.

 

Pathetic.

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And about catching up on basic facts about this scandal after ignoring it for a year and a half. For example:

 

Issa and more than 100 other Republican members of Congress have demanded Holder's resignation.

 

Just plain not true, and easily verifiable as not true. What kind of reporter makes such a basic mistake about her prime subject?

 

No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking

 

ITAR does, and semi auto weapons of .50 cal and below are right near the top of the munitions list. Again, easily verifiable as true.

 

I know what kind of reporter makes these kinds of mistakes and omits Voth's involvement with reassuring nervous dealers. One more interested in propaganda than truth.

I'm just waiting for the evidence that this was some kind of plot to get American peace officers killed as a way to take away our guns. A year and a half of spreading malarkey hasn't eroded reality enough on that point yet.

 

 

 

07-minister.jpg

The NRA is the only news source you can trust on this. Evidence is for those who think too much. Highly illegal things have happened. Trust us. :lol:

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Well, Holder is officially in contempt of Congress.

Maybe Boehner will order the capital police to arrest him. B)

From Wiki

 

The criminal offense of "contempt of Congress" sets the penalty at not less than one month nor more than twelve months in jail and a fine of not less than $100 nor more than $1,000.

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Holder Emails Show Him Looking For Answers

 

When relying on the technique of gun-walking, federal agents tried to track suspected illicit gun-buyers instead of arresting them. The hope was that the low-level "straw" purchasers would lead law enforcement to major arms-traffickers, enabling the agents to dismantle networks that had put tens of thousands of guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. In Operation Fast and Furious, the tracking effort failed. The operation identified over 2,000 illicitly purchased weapons. Some 1,400 of them have yet to be recovered.

 

The emails by Holder and Cole followed a hurried assurance by the Justice Department on Feb. 4, 2011, to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. No such tactic was used, the Justice Department said in a letter to Grassley. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives "makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico," the letter added. The letter was based on incorrect assurances supplied to the Justice Department by the U.S. Attorney's office in Phoenix and by ATF officials. At the Justice Department Friday spokeswoman Nanda Chitre declined to comment about the e-mails.

 

After the Feb. 4 letter to Grassley, news stories appeared containing allegations of gun-walking. The Justice Department was awash in conflicting opinions over whether the media accounts were correct.

 

CBS News ran a story on Feb. 23, 2011. On March 3, CBS followed up, and the non-profit Center for Public Integrity weighed in with its own online account.

 

On Feb. 23, aides passed along to the attorney general the CBS story alleging gun-walking, and the attorney general shot back, "We need answers on this. Not defensive BS. Real answers."

 

Five days later, Holder asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate.

 

On March 3, Cole, the No. 2 official at the Justice Department, emailed his staff: "We obviously need to get to the bottom of this."

 

Holder was skeptical of any assurances.

 

"I hope the AG understands that we did not allow guns to walk," an official at the ATF's Washington headquarters said on March 10 in an email that Holder's aides forwarded to the attorney general.

 

In a response, Holder wrote, "Do they really, really know" that there was no gun-walking?

 

 

 

The invocation of executive privilege to protect communications like that one is darn strange, considering it seems to show Holder actually doing what he should have been doing at that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Holder Emails Show Him Looking For Answers

 

When relying on the technique of gun-walking, federal agents tried to track suspected illicit gun-buyers instead of arresting them. The hope was that the low-level "straw" purchasers would lead law enforcement to major arms-traffickers, enabling the agents to dismantle networks that had put tens of thousands of guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. In Operation Fast and Furious, the tracking effort failed. The operation identified over 2,000 illicitly purchased weapons. Some 1,400 of them have yet to be recovered.

 

The emails by Holder and Cole followed a hurried assurance by the Justice Department on Feb. 4, 2011, to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. No such tactic was used, the Justice Department said in a letter to Grassley. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives "makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico," the letter added. The letter was based on incorrect assurances supplied to the Justice Department by the U.S. Attorney's office in Phoenix and by ATF officials. At the Justice Department Friday spokeswoman Nanda Chitre declined to comment about the e-mails.

 

After the Feb. 4 letter to Grassley, news stories appeared containing allegations of gun-walking. The Justice Department was awash in conflicting opinions over whether the media accounts were correct.

 

CBS News ran a story on Feb. 23, 2011. On March 3, CBS followed up, and the non-profit Center for Public Integrity weighed in with its own online account.

 

On Feb. 23, aides passed along to the attorney general the CBS story alleging gun-walking, and the attorney general shot back, "We need answers on this. Not defensive BS. Real answers."

 

Five days later, Holder asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate.

 

On March 3, Cole, the No. 2 official at the Justice Department, emailed his staff: "We obviously need to get to the bottom of this."

 

Holder was skeptical of any assurances.

 

"I hope the AG understands that we did not allow guns to walk," an official at the ATF's Washington headquarters said on March 10 in an email that Holder's aides forwarded to the attorney general.

 

In a response, Holder wrote, "Do they really, really know" that there was no gun-walking?

 

 

 

The invocation of executive privilege to protect communications like that one is darn strange, considering it seems to show Holder actually doing what he should have been doing at that time.

 

The witch hunt against Holder seems darn strange, considering it seems to show Holder actually doing what he should have been doing at that time.

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The witch hunt against Holder seems darn strange, considering it seems to show Holder actually doing what he should have been doing at that time.

 

Nonsense, he was not doing what he should have been doing at that time. He was playing AG. He should have been doing whatever it is that former AGs do after they resign, which he should have done shortly after being confirmed. He is obviously unfit for public service.

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