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65- by 32-foot catamaran 3200sqft of living space


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Wait, did he say the leeboards were going to be on the insides of the hulls????? :blink:

 

Yes, In fact that's why I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to call them leeboards.

off-center boards? lee-ish boards?

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I can assure you, nothing was added to The Rod's replies.   Perhaps sharing my reverence for The Rod, as well as my deep appreciation for the journalistic accomplishments of my Sailing Anarchy predece

And wtf happened to lil'murray.......?

Guy did not grow a vagin! Mr. Hot is full of merde! The only place Mr. Hot has seen a double hurricane is in La Nouvelle Orléans. 

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This whole thread is haunting, HotRod and Donald Crowhurst indeed. I feel compelled to relate a couple of stories, having been a child on British Columbia's West Coast in the 70's where there was a lot of "movement boatbuilding" going on. A most tragic tale was this: When I was about six, we went to Maple Bay on Vancouver Island to camp on the mostly uninhabited west side of Bird's Eye Cove where my father had camped with his cousin George Hebbert in the 1940's. By 1976, the Hebbert family owned one of the Maple Bay marinas (See 48.799770° -123.600424° ) across from this camping spot. While there we met a couple who had a three year old and were living in a an enormous polyethylene teepee while building a ferro-cement boat of some sort. Apparently later that year the little boy was playing out of side at the water's edge, fell in and drowned. Amazingly, after that devastation, the boat was actually launched. As Hebbert told the story, he was towing it the 400 meters across to the marina but it had some kind of hairline crack which opened up and it sank in maybe 400' of water. I have a nine year old now this still gives me chills.

 

The other story concerns a fascinating conversation I had with Bettina Matzkuhn (http://www.bettinamatzkuhn.ca/) who is a well known textile artist in Vancouver. As you can see from her site (see "sail" for example) she's worked a lot with sailing and navigation themes, as well as exploring her ambivalence about her German heritage. It turns out her father was an obsessed German emigre craftsman who when she was a young teen, sold everything to build a 65' ferro-cement boat which was by her account, the best built boat of it's kind on the west coast. She sailed all over the coast, up to Alaska etc, and hated all of it. Because she was following not her quixotic dream but someone else's. (It sounded like the guy was rather unlikeable.) The other irony was that when her father got old enough, he had to move back ashore, but no one wants to buy your ferro-cement yacht for $140,000 no matter how well built, so he had financial problems and had to self-finance the sale to some flakey person or something. I wish I knew the boat's name as for all I know it's still around.

 

So beware of movement boatbuilding. This is my first Sailing Anarchy post by the way, and I had to register just to look at pictures of this shocking project. I don't work in ferro-cement, I'm actually president of Companionway Sailing Club at Jericho Sailing Centre in Vancouver where we encourage families to go sailing in cats and monohulls and whatnot.

 

Robin

Ferro was very big here back then, largely due to John Sampson's promotional abilities - "The New Way of Life". Plenty of people got sucked in to the hippie wing of that phenomenon and they were the source of most of the failures and crap that actually made it to the water. They were also the source of a large part of the bad rep it got.

 

There are a few decent ones around, if your taste runs to very heavy ocean cruisers, but you have to search long & hard to find them.

 

Having said that, pretty well any of the ones that float would be a better bet than Hot Rod's disaster.

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On my word, my children you understand not! Brother Rodney is simply doing my good works. Isn't it obvious? He is the one I have chosen to create the 2nd Ark. Whilst not exactly what I had in mind ,'tis a fine and sturdy craft to survive to coming flood. I will grant you that his workmanship is not quite what I was hoping for (Carpenters clearly aren't what they were back in the day) but it should suffice.

Nor am I so sure about the strength of the cross beams but hey- I don't have exclusive use of the old 'working in mysterious ways' caper!

Cast stones apon him all you like, but none of you will be laughing when the flood cometh and it floats free. I had him choose this location carefully. As all you sinners drown brother Rodney and a chosen few will be safely aboard Ark2 and your pitiful cries will be drowned out by the screaming engines of the flotilla of Macgreger 26's towing him to safety. And you all thought the Mac 26 was the work of the devil.......

LOL. I was just scrolling through, and trying to remember the bit about people laughing at Jonah.

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Wow, a 6th mode for the 7 Macgregors parked nearby with broken motors. .......The 7 headless whoresmen of the poxyships. Coming to a marina near you.

 

Midnight hour is close at hand,

and Rod has spent his last ten grand,

now he searches Macgregors in search of wood ..........

to learn the steering, and how it would....

 

and whatsoever shall be found

shall rot inside Rods plywood mound..

or stand and face the wavelets from hell

brown pants issued, and steering broken Fkn hell...

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On my word, my children you understand not! Brother Rodney is simply doing my good works. Isn't it obvious? He is the one I have chosen to create the 2nd Ark.

o almighty one, if brother Rodney is making the 2nd ark, then is this one the work of the devil, or could it just be that Altzheimer is pulling tricks on you ? (provided of course Altz is in thyne realm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UddT1RXpqtQ‎

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my prediction is it will float... I expect a tug will be able to push it to the other side of the bay where fitting out will commence.

 

The first time it sees a 4+ foot swell at a cross angle and bad things will happen

Swells in the pacific get to 20 feet fairly often but are at least not 'sharp'

 

Honestly, I'd tell HotRod to find a low low cost marina and just live aboard for the 4 years or so it will last (assuming no big storms hit). After that, rot etc will just make it fall apart.

 

How reasonable is that prediction? ((I've only seen the pics on this thread))

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I PROMISE MY NEXT POST WILL INCLUDE SOME NEW PHOTOS

 

But in the mean time:

 

This is a serious post that I would hope would generate some serious and thoughtful replies. Perhaps this is not he place for an attempt like this but I’m going to give it a try anyway. While I do understand that it is unavoidable to have a few laughs at Hot Rod’s expense, were he to hear or read some of the vicious thrashing that goes on here would any of us expect him to say: “Oh yes you are so right. I am going to dedicate my life to make things right and put your mind at ease?” Trying to humiliate him or his compatriots isn’t likely to change his mind or alter his course.

In point of fact Hotrod and company seem to be decent folks, particularly Hot Rod’s son Mike and a woman I believe to be Hotrod’s girlfriend. When posting my first photos I decided to try to present what I could without judgment or criticism. It is not that I don’t have the knowledge and experience necessary to form an opinion or that I haven’t formed one yet, but I figured that there was plenty of that here already. I also don’t feel it appropriate to trash these people behind their backs. While I will admit that I have slipped a little, I am hoping to have continued access to the boat and post what I hear and see.

 

This said I have a question for those of you who have suggested that Hot Rod should be schooled somehow or saved from himself. More than one posting here has even suggested that SA members have an obligation to try and do something. Honestly, what would you propose to do exactly? From my discussions with Hot Rod and his son it is apparent that they are very confident in their design and build so far. When you talk with them and ask even pointed or speculative questions they surprise you with thought through answers. Indeed, they may be fundamentally and dangerously wrong answers, but it is pretty clear that they have thought a lot about most all of the issues raised here. This presents an extremely difficult cognitive wall to penetrate. I have seen this kind of thing before, and short of physically restraining these guys it looks to me like they are going to try and float the “Flyin Hawaiian” (yes, that is what they are calling it.) and in the short term try to sail or tow it someplace in the bay. For those of you who do not know San Francisco Bay let me say that plan, in and of it self, presents no mean feat. Moreover, the closer we get to Summer the more difficult its going to be. I am not sure I am at the point where I will say that I, or anybody, should just stand back and let them have at it, but really…… what can be done?

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safety first, make sure they all don PFDs on launch day.....

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Flying Hawaiian

 

I love it

 

Reality is funny that way. It ultimately needs to be put to the test.

If he's spent time actually thinking and solving these issues, maybe it'll work.

We'd likely not have planes if 'crazy' people didn't do something daring 100 years ago...

 

Sailing types tend to be overly atune to harsh reality, and thus overly conservative in design philosophy.

I too prefer a frigate built to Lloyds rules, but things like that are based on experience.

 

Maybe someone would be kind enough to take him out in a storm in a blue sea worthy cat or mono... short of that taste of reality, he really may not understand it in a littoral sense B)

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What can be done? Simple. Someone with a sound, well sorted boat (40' - 50') should take Hotrod out the Gate and take a little sail around the Farallons. They should do that right about now when the winds are nukin' and the wave aren't very comfy. They should let Hotrod and his son handle the boat from dock-to-dock by themselves with a watchful eye and jump in if anything really bad is going to happen. Then once Hotrod and crew feel they have that under control, we'll let him try it at night. And for the bonus points, how about a nice little out-and-back to a GPS point offshore, maybe 200 miles or so, that requires at least one night sleeping on the boat and preparing a meal or two with all the planning and safety procedures worked out by him for the trip. Toss in a man overboard drill just for fun. Then do it again with a multi to see how that goes.

 

Unfortunately, I fear that even that wouldn't "enlighten" him enough to realize his project and plans are maybe a little overzealous, if not downright dangerous. It was my experience that things that others had already worked out over the year (i.e. designers, sailors, engineers, etc.) are of no use to him because common sense, which he feels he has an abundance of, is all you need to build a boat and sail the world. While that might be true, it's been my personal experience that people with common sense have years or decades of real world experience, including blatant failures, to hone that sense.

 

Hotrod has no sailing experience and no boat building experience, which wouldn't be a problem if he were building an El Toro to sail on a lake. He not only will not realize (if he does manage to get that thing to open water) when something is wrong, but has no experience to draw on to avoid problems in the first place. And more over, from the little time I talked to him, he seems dead set on doing everything his way without question, regardless of obvious flaws. This lack of flexibility is by far the thing that will get him in the most trouble. He already knows everything he needs to know. That's a dangerous attitude in a very large ocean.

 

While I deeply respect his fortitude and shear willpower, all joking aside, we all know exactly how this is going to end.

 

Still, can't wait to see the pictures! How'd that electric kitchen cooktop look in the galley?

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LilMurray, thanks for your reports and insight.

 

I think most of us are experiencing a range of emotions about this project, I can only speak for myself, but the following applies:

 

- I admire HotRod for his spirit, inventiveness and stick-to-it to get the boat built

- I know enough about boats that I believe it will not survive for long.

- I am very concerned that somebody will get hurt learning this lesson.

- I am also concerned about the environmental mess that will be created.

- I do wish him luck, but fear the whole exercise is doomed to failure.

 

I'd like to help him avoid some of the pitfalls, but I don't see how. He doesn't seem to want advice about design, construction, sailing, seamanship, etc. It's impossible to know absolutely that it will fail, so we can't take legal action to stop him. As mentioned before, I'd be glad to add my own 9hp inflatable dinghy to the tugboat flotilla, but with all those screws, my own safety would be compromised (and I know 9hp isn't enough to do much to move that beast)

 

I have no problem with him doing what he wants... but the question remains: Who foots the bill for rescue and cleanup?

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Okay here we go with some new photos taken just a few days ago:

 

On this day I got the grand tour and pretty much everything was available to me except the Captain's cabin. I am going to post a few at the time because I haven't quite got the Flicker acct. working as I'd like it and there is alot here to digest. Some of you will be disappointed because the images I am posting often frame out what I considered personal items that probably shouldn't become part of this discussion. Its "camping out" but there are people living here.

 

post-98603-0-38330900-1369351987_thumb.jpg

 

This is the view looking in from the aft deck. That is the starboard steering station and in front of it immediately inside is "moms cabin" Like the rest of the interior it isn't that finished but includes a pretty conventional looking bed and lots of personal items. One thing of note: I asked HR about the patio sliding door and he said that other than some trim it was a finished installation. He also said that the sizeable space above the door frame and the overhead is there to accomodate movement and flex in the boat so as not to break or bind up the slider.

 

 

post-98603-0-02383700-1369351989_thumb.jpg

 

Okay, here we are in the cabin looking back slightly at the galley. This is the most "finished" part of the interior. There is a stainless steel sink and running water is a bit cobbled together but apparently works. Counters are epoxy finished pine and there is some built in storage most of which can be seen in the photo. Barely visible in the foreground you may notice one of the nicest things on the boat, a very nice 4 burner residential style gas cooktop (Kitchenaid I think). Structurally, the posts visible are triple 2x4s that are center supports for the deck above. The one at the left edge of the photo also serves as a compression post for the Mizzen Mast. However, the base of this mast has a narrow plate under it on deck several feet wide that speads the load along the beam and serves also as anchor points for a pair of this mast's shrouds (can't remember if they are uppers or lowers.) If you look closely at this and the next picture you will see some areas without the grey filler between the 2x4 ceiling framing. The grey is insulation board and the blank sections of plywood are said to be planned windows. BTW every stick in the boat other than plywood started out as a 2x4. More on both of these last two observations later.

 

 

 

post-98603-0-70114600-1369351990_thumb.jpg

 

Stepping back a little aft this is another view of the galley against the plywood dividing wall. It dosen't appear braced or fastened as a bulhead, and the plywood is not really continuous. Mom's head is directly behind this partition.

 

 

post-98603-0-33054400-1369351992_thumb.jpg

 

From the same position as the previous photo this was taken looking starboard at the "nav station". Again note the blank plywood rectangles. These I was told will be windows of 1/4 plexi, but HR is waiting to install them until the boat is in the water because he is concerned that the window seals will be displaced by the movement that will occur when the boat is moved on the trailer and launched. When asked if he was concerned about them moving while the boat was underway he said that they wouldn't move in same way or as much. If you look closely on top of the chart cabinet you might be able to make out some of the contemplated graphics indicating the boat's name.

 

 

post-98603-0-45391500-1369351994_thumb.jpg

 

Finally for today, this last one is taken slightly forward of the previous photo looking over the nav console. This shows a typical post and beam arrangement that exists several places in the cabin. The beams are what HR often refers to as Steel reinforced laminated beams. This one is made up of three thicknesses of 2x4 face laminated with some sort of epoxy past. HR says these beams are far stronger than "regular laminated beams because they are made with "Special Aircraft grade Epoxy and steel reinforced." "You can't just go to Tap Plastics and buy this stuff." The "steel reinforcement consists of galvanized builders screws at about 6 inches on center.

 

 

 

 

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Lilmurray you have talked to him so are a long way ahead of most of us and I think we all appreciate your reports and concern for the rod man. My own opinion of him came from the video I posted on page one of this epic. He claimed he was a 'master craftsmen' and had studied thousands of boat designs before creating that heap of shit. Time has shown that he is full of shit on both accounts.

Like 95% of these self designed nightmares he probably will just scare the fuck out of himself on the first trip and it will end it's time up a creek covered in bird shit with him living aboard like a hillbilly. The local council will eventually tow it away as landfill . Fun to watch anyway. I like the Korean guys shed much better. He wasn't telling anyone how clever he was. And it a least will work as a shed...

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Looking at those inside shots, the structure of that thing wouldn't pass muster as a garden shed, let alone a house - and it's expected to go to sea?

 

I really hate seeing that much waste of human spirit, energy and effort, not to mention money.

 

He must have a king sized ego to think he is that much smarter than everybody else in the marine world combined.

 

This whole phenomenon is entering the "Too stupid to live" realm.

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Again note the blank plywood rectangles. These I was told will be windows of 1/4 plexi, but HR is waiting to install them until the boat is in the water because he is concerned that the window seals will be displaced by the movement that will occur when the boat is moved on the trailer and launched. When asked if he was concerned about them moving while the boat was underway he said that they wouldn't move in same way or as much.

Fuck....me......dead.

 

Darwin is calling.

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Looking at those inside shots, the structure of that thing wouldn't pass muster as a garden shed, let alone a house - and it's expected to go to sea?

 

I really hate seeing that much waste of human spirit, energy and effort, not to mention money.

 

He must have a king sized ego to think he is that much smarter than everybody else in the marine world combined.

 

This whole phenomenon is entering the "Too stupid to live" realm.

 

At least it's mostly wood, if our original calculations are close, at least it won't sink when a hull pops open.

 

Also, this isn't really a lost cause. I think that there are things that Hotrod can do, based on a community's feedback, to make the boat safer. For instance I would like to see a good amount of diagonal cross bracing from the bridge deck across the inside of those hulls, it would hopefully prevent the torsion I'm worried about in a cross swell that could pop off those plywood panels. It would cut into his interior space, but I think it would help. He could dramatically beef up those rudders, go to a more robust tension plan ... all of these little things could help.

 

There are some things with which he's stuck, like that mammoth windage, of course that's possible to fix too ... he can lop off the bridge deck, relocate it to the desert somewhere as a nice little cabin, then flip over those hulls and use them as sheds so he can build some very nice strip and fiberglass dinghies inside.

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those shots of the interior? Speechless! At some point Darwin claims his prize. Looking at the sheer effort and $ and force of will that has gone into this thing it would be both pointless and cruel to try and pull some legal "unsafe" mumbo jumbo on the Rod. At this point we owe it to him to let it launch, keep the local eye balls on it, notify the CG and just watch. Because he won't listen to us anyway and better it fail and he sees it than he is denied his dream, and has to ponder "what if" forever.

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if he had enough shrink wrap and just kept going round and round and round and round

 

in the proper directions = 1' thick (Yes Foot)

 

it just might make it to

 

the ramp

 

:huh:

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There are some things with which he's stuck, like that mammoth windage, of course that's possible to fix too ...

He could simply open the proposed windows up. I wonder if they will be sash windows.....I know were he can get some weights for them!

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I PROMISE MY NEXT POST WILL INCLUDE SOME NEW PHOTOS

 

But in the mean time:

 

This is a serious post that I would hope would generate some serious and thoughtful replies. Perhaps this is not he place for an attempt like this but I’m going to give it a try anyway. While I do understand that it is unavoidable to have a few laughs at Hot Rod’s expense, were he to hear or read some of the vicious thrashing that goes on here would any of us expect him to say: “Oh yes you are so right. I am going to dedicate my life to make things right and put your mind at ease?” Trying to humiliate him or his compatriots isn’t likely to change his mind or alter his course.

In point of fact Hotrod and company seem to be decent folks, particularly Hot Rod’s son Mike and a woman I believe to be Hotrod’s girlfriend. When posting my first photos I decided to try to present what I could without judgment or criticism. It is not that I don’t have the knowledge and experience necessary to form an opinion or that I haven’t formed one yet, but I figured that there was plenty of that here already. I also don’t feel it appropriate to trash these people behind their backs. While I will admit that I have slipped a little, I am hoping to have continued access to the boat and post what I hear and see.

 

This said I have a question for those of you who have suggested that Hot Rod should be schooled somehow or saved from himself. More than one posting here has even suggested that SA members have an obligation to try and do something. Honestly, what would you propose to do exactly? From my discussions with Hot Rod and his son it is apparent that they are very confident in their design and build so far. When you talk with them and ask even pointed or speculative questions they surprise you with thought through answers. Indeed, they may be fundamentally and dangerously wrong answers, but it is pretty clear that they have thought a lot about most all of the issues raised here. This presents an extremely difficult cognitive wall to penetrate. I have seen this kind of thing before, and short of physically restraining these guys it looks to me like they are going to try and float the “Flyin Hawaiian” (yes, that is what they are calling it.) and in the short term try to sail or tow it someplace in the bay. For those of you who do not know San Francisco Bay let me say that plan, in and of it self, presents no mean feat. Moreover, the closer we get to Summer the more difficult its going to be. I am not sure I am at the point where I will say that I, or anybody, should just stand back and let them have at it, but really…… what can be done?

 

 

the Brotherhood of SA is DEEP with resource

 

there are some in SoCal with the means to help people in such situations get their lives back together

 

If you really want to help out you could

 

post some Pix of the GF :o:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Okay here we go with some new photos taken just a few days ago:

 

 

...The beams are what HR often refers to as Steel reinforced laminated beams. This one is made up of three thicknesses of 2x4 face laminated with some sort of epoxy past. HR says these beams are far stronger than "regular laminated beams because they are made with "Special Aircraft grade Epoxy and steel reinforced." "You can't just go to Tap Plastics and buy this stuff." The "steel reinforcement consists of galvanized builders screws at about 6 inches on center.

 

Wow. I had not heard about this method of reinforcing beams before.

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lil murray, next time you are there, do us a favour and walk on the cabin roof. The frame spacings tell me its not strong enough to walk on safely. I honestly feel sad for the guy. Delusional is an understatement.

 

Indeed i have walked on top. It's 1/2 plywood. The amount of deflection varies, of course, depending on where you are standing. Photos of the cabin top are comming.

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Man, I thought it was bad from the original pictures. Those latest ones of the interior are worse than I expected. As a house it might be passable, but probably wouldn't be safe or pass code. As a boat it's destined to fall apart as soon as it gets in the water (if not before).

 

Does he know how strong the ocean is? Has he ever looked at it?

 

As for the people who think his plan is to float it up a canal and live on it, look at the graphics for the boat. The state of home port is clearly Hawaii. I can't make out the city.

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I formerly cheered this guy on, but this is all very sobering.

 

If he wants to get to Hawaii, it is at least thinkable that he could sail almost the whole way in the Pacific High. Will take a long time but the seas will be very calm. I have no idea how he is supposed to make it out past the Farallones and hopefully into a high pressure system soon after though, or how he'll do the last few hundred miles into Hawaii. One quick squall and it's over.

 

Nothing funny about watching someone who does not at all intend to do himself (and likely some other souls) in, end up doing exactly that.

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went by yesterday, hes packing up now, putting all his building equipment on pallets, wrapping with plastic and putting in his container box. splash day soon? full moon this weekend with with big tide changes.highest tide around midnight with a minus tide around 7am today

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I formerly cheered this guy on, but this is all very sobering.

 

If he wants to get to Hawaii, it is at least thinkable that he could sail almost the whole way in the Pacific High. Will take a long time but the seas will be very calm. I have no idea how he is supposed to make it out past the Farallones and hopefully into a high pressure system soon after though, or how he'll do the last few hundred miles into Hawaii. One quick squall and it's over.

 

Nothing funny about watching someone who does not at all intend to do himself (and likely some other souls) in, end up doing exactly that.

 

Oh man I hope he thinks Hawaii is up towards Stockton. Could be a passable liveaboard if he turns left (i.e. away from the big orange bridge) and goes for Bethel Island instead of Oahu

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went by yesterday, hes packing up now, putting all his building equipment on pallets, wrapping with plastic and putting in his container box. splash day soon? full moon this weekend with with big tide changes.highest tide around midnight with a minus tide around 7am today

 

 

"IF" the slot down the middle is exactly 16' wide

 

and he haz 2 - 65' AIR Tight Containers

 

and welds them together

 

and pulls the POS on top and epoxy's the Fuck out of it all the way around

 

it will have a chance and not just a Slim one either

 

he'll have a 16' wide chance

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........................................... He claimed he was a 'master craftsmen' and had studied thousands of boat designs before creating that heap of shit. Time has shown that he is full of shit on both accounts........................

 

Hotrod still makes these claims without hesitation. Here are some others from a recent conversation:

 

"I am a master motorcycle mechanic certified to work on all the major makes"

 

"I'm a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, a mechanic, even a pilot.............When I came out of college I was a computer programmer, Fortran, Cobol............ There was no work because this stuff was obsolete. I had to reinvent myself. I have done it many times."

 

Gesturing up toward the cabin of the boat: "I have lots of paperwork and certifications up there. You'd be surprised." ..................... Laughing, "I am no longer impressed by my own resume."

 

Gesturing toward his son Mike. "We're professional boatbuilders. Yah, we're boat builders. Really, certified by the federal government." (Me: "I've never heard of a US government certification or license for boat building.") "Well we have it. This is a federally documented vessel." ..........

 

"........we're going to leave this harbor with a 3 star rating. You can also get a 4 or 5 star rating but that requires just a bunch of other unnecessay expensive stuff"

 

 

I do know what Hot Rod is referencing in some of these quotes, and probably most of you know as well. I cannot say whether he is intending to decieve, is looking for a laugh or doesn't even understand what he is talking about.

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I love that he bought commercial kitchen size spices. Must give him some comfort to know that he won't run out of of Mrs. Dash as he cruises to every island in the Pacific.

 

 

He is also assuming that the Flyin Hawaiian will be as stable on the water as on land. One little wave (or a ramp launch) and all the spices are coming down. I wonder if the drawers and cabinet doors have latches?

 

As for what we can do... wait and watch!

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........................................... He claimed he was a 'master craftsmen' and had studied thousands of boat designs before creating that heap of shit. Time has shown that he is full of shit on both accounts........................

 

Hotrod still makes these claims without hesitation. Here are some others from a recent conversation:

 

"I am a master motorcycle mechanic certified to work on all the major makes"

 

"I'm a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, a mechanic, even a pilot.............When I came out of college I was a computer programmer, Fortran, Cobol............ There was no work because this stuff was obsolete. I had to reinvent myself. I have done it many times."

 

Gesturing up toward the cabin of the boat: "I have lots of paperwork and certifications up there. You'd be surprised." ..................... Laughing, "I am no longer impressed by my own resume."

 

Gesturing toward his son Mike. "We're professional boatbuilders. Yah, we're boat builders. Really, certified by the federal government." (Me: "I've never heard of a US government certification or license for boat building.") "Well we have it. This is a federally documented vessel." ..........

 

"........we're going to leave this harbor with a 3 star rating. You can also get a 4 or 5 star rating but that requires just a bunch of other unnecessay expensive stuff"

 

 

I do know what Hot Rod is referencing in some of these quotes, and probably most of you know as well. I cannot say whether he is intending to decieve, is looking for a laugh or doesn't even understand what he is talking about.

Could he be planning on an "Unexpected life change" and trying to sell the thing? All that self aggrandizing bullshit sounds like he's setting up a sales pitch to a sucker.

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Could he be planning on an "Unexpected life change" and trying to sell the thing? All that self aggrandizing bullshit sounds like he's setting up a sales pitch to a sucker.

 

He says he's not planning on selling. BTW when Hot Rod refers to the boat in conversation he speaks of it as "the yacht." As in " As she sits the yacht is worth 6 million dollars."

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Could he be planning on an "Unexpected life change" and trying to sell the thing? All that self aggrandizing bullshit sounds like he's setting up a sales pitch to a sucker.

 

He says he's not planning on selling. BTW when Hot Rod refers to the boat in conversation he speaks of it as "the yacht." As in " As she sits the yacht is worth 6 million dollars."

 

 

Is he including the value of the land in that appraisal?

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Has anyone read any of Arthur Piver's books? "Trans-Pacific Trimaran", "Trans-Atlantic Trimaran", and "Trimaran Third Book"?

 

They are a pretty good read. For the same budget HotRod could have built one of Piver's designs (e.g. the 65-foot EMPRESS).

 

Piver's books are full of anecdotes on the exploits of people that have built the boats and just shoved off toward, say, Hawaii with a couple cases of beans and a couple cases of beer. You get in the trades and even if you get dismasted and are sea-sick and/or passed out, there's a fairly high probability you will wash up on Hawaii. His stories are full of tales of lost mariners spying land and just ramming their boat onto the nearest shore, harbor or not, usually destroying the boat, grateful to be alive.

 

I have to assume ol' HotRod will have a GPS... or maybe he got a free loran?

__________________

 

I once got on a schooner bound from Los Angeles to Hawaii in the days before GPS and at the first dawn after sailing all night I asked the skipper/owner, "Say... is that San Nick?" (San Nicolas Island -- the last of the Channel Islands and the last land you'll see before Hawaii) His answer, "How the hell should I know?"

 

What followed was an exploratory conversation where I asked how they were navigating. He said they were going to follow the contrails of the jet airliners across. I asked, "What if they're headed to Japan?" That threw him for a loop. And what if the sky is overcast? That confused him as well. Then I explained how the jets flew on a great circle bearing whereas we would be sailing significantly to the south of that, following the winter trades, and any contrails would be below the horizon. Owner: "No. The contrails are in the sky."

 

I went on to explain how the great circle route went straight through the middle of the Pacific High (if not above it in winter) and we would either encounter zero wind or headwinds. This was all complete news to the owner. I than tactfully asked, "Do you mind if I navigate?" His reply, "You can navigate?!?!" I turned us on a more southerly course and we picked up the trades the next day. I even taught his cook celestial! She kept calling "Fomalhaut" (Foam a lot) "Froth-mouth" by mistake, bless her heart.

 

That trip had many many more stories, all equally as bizarre. For example, my buddy was in the forepeak sifting though sails before leaving and asked the owner, "Do you have any spinnakers?" They owner replied, "Oh we don't use those; we like to just stick with the schooner sails." Tom quietly moved the spinnaker to the top of the pile. He also dug up a monstrous gollywobler. It went from main topmast to fore topmast to deck to end of main boom -- huge. We get in the trades and Tom and I set the spinn and golly. Nice! The owner is looking mildly distressed, but not overly. We go off watch and come on deck a few hours later to find the light sails down, working sails only, and the boat 90-degrees off course headed straight for the middle of the Pacific high. Owner: "We like the schooner sails better. Schooners like to reach." We explained that he was headed toward Alaska by way of the center of the Pacific high and would run out of wind in a few more hours. Owner: "How do you know that? You're just making that up." Me: "Well, people have been sailing in these waters for hundreds of years and they pretty much have the general climate worked out by now." Owner: "Well, we're going this way." Me: "OK, but it's going to take a really long time to get to Hawaii..." Owner: "Whatever. We're not in some big hurry. Are you hung up on time?" Two hours later: nearly no wind, sails slatting, boat speed about a knot. Engine on, alter course to just about due south, get back to the trades. The schooner people go off watch and Tom and I set the light sails again and the boat takes off again toward Hawaii.

 

OK, now repeat that sequence a dozen or more times. Our course was this series of scallops of run, reach, motor, run, reach motor... There wasn't any animosity or ill feelings; just the two watches sailed very different courses is all.

 

After being at sea for 10 days the owner had a very different view about "Whatever. We're not in some big hurry. Are you hung up on time?" He REALLY wanted the trip to be over. He was tired of the food and tired of the routine. He started doing more recreational substances and just sort of zoning out.

 

Oh yeah... then there was the hurricane...

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I PROMISE MY NEXT POST WILL INCLUDE SOME NEW PHOTOS

 

But in the mean time:

 

This is a serious post that I would hope would generate some serious and thoughtful replies. Perhaps this is not he place for an attempt like this but I’m going to give it a try anyway. While I do understand that it is unavoidable to have a few laughs at Hot Rod’s expense, were he to hear or read some of the vicious thrashing that goes on here would any of us expect him to say: “Oh yes you are so right. I am going to dedicate my life to make things right and put your mind at ease?” Trying to humiliate him or his compatriots isn’t likely to change his mind or alter his course.

In point of fact Hotrod and company seem to be decent folks, particularly Hot Rod’s son Mike and a woman I believe to be Hotrod’s girlfriend. When posting my first photos I decided to try to present what I could without judgment or criticism. It is not that I don’t have the knowledge and experience necessary to form an opinion or that I haven’t formed one yet, but I figured that there was plenty of that here already. I also don’t feel it appropriate to trash these people behind their backs. While I will admit that I have slipped a little, I am hoping to have continued access to the boat and post what I hear and see.

 

This said I have a question for those of you who have suggested that Hot Rod should be schooled somehow or saved from himself. More than one posting here has even suggested that SA members have an obligation to try and do something. Honestly, what would you propose to do exactly? From my discussions with Hot Rod and his son it is apparent that they are very confident in their design and build so far. When you talk with them and ask even pointed or speculative questions they surprise you with thought through answers. Indeed, they may be fundamentally and dangerously wrong answers, but it is pretty clear that they have thought a lot about most all of the issues raised here. This presents an extremely difficult cognitive wall to penetrate. I have seen this kind of thing before, and short of physically restraining these guys it looks to me like they are going to try and float the “Flyin Hawaiian” (yes, that is what they are calling it.) and in the short term try to sail or tow it someplace in the bay. For those of you who do not know San Francisco Bay let me say that plan, in and of it self, presents no mean feat. Moreover, the closer we get to Summer the more difficult its going to be. I am not sure I am at the point where I will say that I, or anybody, should just stand back and let them have at it, but really…… what can be done?

 

Since you are a n00b here on SA, you need to get up to speed on some things - Since this is a long weekend, check out the following links about one past subject of our collective obsession attention and get back to us - Some time next year.

 

Start here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=52463

 

Then look here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=126739 for part 2, as Dawg had to shut down the original thread as it was breaking the database

 

For the cliff notes, best of, & parody version go here: http://1000daysofhell.blogspot.com/

 

And finally, his pretty much sums it all up:

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........................................... He claimed he was a 'master craftsmen' and had studied thousands of boat designs before creating that heap of shit. Time has shown that he is full of shit on both accounts........................

 

Hotrod still makes these claims without hesitation. Here are some others from a recent conversation:

 

"I am a master motorcycle mechanic certified to work on all the major makes"

 

"I'm a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, a mechanic, even a pilot.............When I came out of college I was a computer programmer, Fortran, Cobol............ There was no work because this stuff was obsolete. I had to reinvent myself. I have done it many times."

 

Gesturing up toward the cabin of the boat: "I have lots of paperwork and certifications up there. You'd be surprised." ..................... Laughing, "I am no longer impressed by my own resume."

 

Gesturing toward his son Mike. "We're professional boatbuilders. Yah, we're boat builders. Really, certified by the federal government." (Me: "I've never heard of a US government certification or license for boat building.") "Well we have it. This is a federally documented vessel." ..........

 

"........we're going to leave this harbor with a 3 star rating. You can also get a 4 or 5 star rating but that requires just a bunch of other unnecessay expensive stuff"

 

 

I do know what Hot Rod is referencing in some of these quotes, and probably most of you know as well. I cannot say whether he is intending to decieve, is looking for a laugh or doesn't even understand what he is talking about.

 

I think he's a classic bulshitter. You now the type -- what they say they think is true. It's like fishing. When they say they caught a fish, they did indeed catch a fish. When they say, "and it was this big," it's based on a truth, so it's still true to them. It's their reality. We can't change them.

 

He knows it's not how other boats are built. Likely he doesn't care "how it's done" and thinks his way is better (for some value of "better"). He's going to do it his way. No amount of mocking (out of his earshot, or in earshot really) is doing to dissuade him.

 

He might be some or all of those things that he says and he just might not give a good god damn what we think.

 

The sad part about this is that he will do what he wants, wrong though he may be, and I hope it doesn't end *too* badly for him. I don't find any entertainment in that.

 

That's why I'm not laughing at him.

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........................................... He claimed he was a 'master craftsmen' and had studied thousands of boat designs before creating that heap of shit. Time has shown that he is full of shit on both accounts........................

 

Hotrod still makes these claims without hesitation. Here are some others from a recent conversation:

 

"I am a master motorcycle mechanic certified to work on all the major makes"

 

"I'm a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, a mechanic, even a pilot.............When I came out of college I was a computer programmer, Fortran, Cobol............ There was no work because this stuff was obsolete. I had to reinvent myself. I have done it many times."

 

Gesturing up toward the cabin of the boat: "I have lots of paperwork and certifications up there. You'd be surprised." ..................... Laughing, "I am no longer impressed by my own resume."

 

Gesturing toward his son Mike. "We're professional boatbuilders. Yah, we're boat builders. Really, certified by the federal government." (Me: "I've never heard of a US government certification or license for boat building.") "Well we have it. This is a federally documented vessel." ..........

 

"........we're going to leave this harbor with a 3 star rating. You can also get a 4 or 5 star rating but that requires just a bunch of other unnecessay expensive stuff"

 

 

I do know what Hot Rod is referencing in some of these quotes, and probably most of you know as well. I cannot say whether he is intending to decieve, is looking for a laugh or doesn't even understand what he is talking about.

Lilmurray, Outstanding coverage! Thanks!!! Are you trying to get a full time cushy job with SA like Clean? :lol:

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I formerly cheered this guy on, but this is all very sobering.

 

If he wants to get to Hawaii, it is at least thinkable that he could sail almost the whole way in the Pacific High. Will take a long time but the seas will be very calm. I have no idea how he is supposed to make it out past the Farallones and hopefully into a high pressure system soon after though, or how he'll do the last few hundred miles into Hawaii. One quick squall and it's over.

 

Nothing funny about watching someone who does not at all intend to do himself (and likely some other souls) in, end up doing exactly that.

Clam, You set the bar pretty high with your new avatar. Very nice!!!

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I am so addicted to this thread - as far as the morality of letting this happen or not - I would just let it happen. It would be interesting if several hundred people did show up when Mr. James decides to launch. For some reason, I am betting that he will make it to the water with only a few stress cracks and that the water intrusion will be minor. I also think that the he may resort to having the beast towed as it will be unable to navigate under its own power. As others have said, he should turn left and head towards smooth water where it will eventually retire to a land fill. Such is life.

 

It really is documented,

 

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/pls/webpls/cgv_pkg.vessel_name_list

 

Its hailing port is Lahaina, My God, he really does intend to sail there.

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Since you are a n00b here on SA, you need to get up to speed on some things - Since this is a long weekend, check out the following links about one past subject of our collective obsession attention and get back to us - Some time next year.

 

Start here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=52463

 

Then look here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=126739 for part 2, as Dawg had to shut down the original thread as it was breaking the database

 

For the cliff notes, best of, & parody version go here: http://1000daysofhell.blogspot.com/

 

And finally, his pretty much sums it all up:

 

So what's your point, that there are no serious discussions here or that I am unaware that there are many misguided people in the world?

 

If you would take the time to read this thread including the few posts I have made you will find that both are inaccurate.

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lilmurray,

 

Thanks for the commentary, photos and insight.

 

I appreciate your non-judgmental approach.

 

This is for me, right now the most entertaining thread on SA (I followed the whole 1000-days train wreck; I miss the entertainment it provided).

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Don't take offense. He is just giving you the tools of which we all use to filter the Rod.... Many Many hours if not years were spent reading the rantings of weedo and the hoovians (not to mention murlet) and much of it will help you realize that being a cynical cunt on these pages will serve you well. 99% of the time we are right.....

 

Now I donno if you ever got the propper greeting but unless you read the above links in full (yes there will be a test administered by LR himself)

 

Fuck off NEWB!! Show us your wife/girlfriends TITS!!!!

 

Now I feel better......... :D

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I wish this guy could have approached the whole thing differently. He probably could have crowdsourced a yacht design, and indeed some of the materials, if he'd played his cards right. I like to think that, anyway -- maybe SA is simply too fucking mean these days. But it could be the kind of thing that's written up in _Wired_, and then we'd all have the thrill of watching his travels online, and he'd be about the safest guy on the sea.

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at this point there is only one course of action that he is going to accept, launch. And sorry for those that are offended but i AM laughing. I am also horrified at the whole thing but enough warnings have put in front of him, enough smart people have offered help. What's the saying? You can fix stupid.

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Actually, from what I hear, CG -SF is aware of this build. (several people have called it in) Not sure if they are going to do anything but it could get interesting...As a reminder, go to the first page of this thread. Read the interview. James intends to charter the boat in Hawaii.

 

 

Let that sink in for a while...

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Somebody Else -- that is a super awesome Hawaii sail story :) Worthy of your own thread. I'd like to hear more

 

It kind of reads like a thread hijack. Sorry.

 

It was meant to illustrate how many delusional mariners somehow manage to not die and actually arrive somewhere.

The schooner was very seaworthy but it was blind luck they ended up with a navigator on board.

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Don't take offense. He is just giving you the tools of which we all use to filter the Rod.... Many Many hours if not years were spent reading the rantings of weedo and the hoovians (not to mention murlet) and much of it will help you realize that being a cynical cunt on these pages will serve you well. 99% of the time we are right.....

 

Now I donno if you ever got the propper greeting but unless you read the above links in full (yes there will be a test administered by LR himself)

 

Fuck off NEWB!! Show us your wife/girlfriends TITS!!!!

 

Now I feel better......... :D

Christ, don't even get me started on the 4th mode - Or A Scows - And yes indeed, the n00b still has to provide us with the ritual posting...

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Don't take offense. He is just giving you the tools of which we all use to filter the Rod.... Many Many hours if not years were spent reading the rantings of weedo and the hoovians (not to mention murlet) and much of it will help you realize that being a cynical cunt on these pages will serve you well. 99% of the time we are right.....

 

Now I donno if you ever got the propper greeting but unless you read the above links in full (yes there will be a test administered by LR himself)

 

Fuck off NEWB!! Show us your wife/girlfriends TITS!!!!

 

Now I feel better......... :D

 

No offense taken from the OP. However, I don't seem to speak your language, and as long as your response appears atypical I will contine my attempts to post on this topic in as neutral a manner possible. Otherwise I have many more important things to do.

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Actually, from what I hear, CG -SF is aware of this build. (several people have called it in) Not sure if they are going to do anything but it could get interesting...As a reminder, go to the first page of this thread. Read the interview. James intends to charter the boat in Hawaii.

 

 

Let that sink in for a while...

 

 

Yeah, I saw that. Just wondering what the outcome would be if, in a classy, respectful fashion, someone got on here and said, "listen guys, I just came into $500K; i have this crazy idea to build a boat and sail it to Hawaii; I wonder if any of you would be willing to serve as a team of consultants to help me through the project. I am not out to sue anyone and i'm not going to cause the least kerfluffle, but if some of you could at least watch virtually as I try to put a boat together, and let me know if you think you see something really stupid happening, I would dearly appreciate it and I'd be happy to take you on a beery trip around the bay with some very awesome girls."

 

I guess someone would just say, show us your wife's tits, or something, and that'd be that.

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1 FUNBUZZ ENDING thing that can be counted on

 

the Kalifornia FTB (Tax Man) shall require a Chunk of Cash

 

Based in a 2013 65' KAT w 3000+ Feet of living space @ whatever that is these daz

 

Sadly for HR the Yearly Tax shall be more than the heap is worth (But Hay he'll only have to worry once)

 

He'll have a Hard time to talk his way out of a $50,000 Tax Bill

 

"Unless" he gets it Surveyed - and at that point it shall be condemned

 

A Surveyor could not check it all over and allow it to go in the water

 

without risking joining the Legal Mess once it breaks up and fingers start pointing

 

Just the cost of clean-up to the ramp area will be Huge after the tide clears the water in front of it

 

Shouldn't that "Pyramid of PAIN" have to be Registered before SplCrashing

 

if there ever were a boat that needed Rubber Bands this is it :)

 

Bet that ARSE form BoneUS who Dissed me Yacht on SA a few years ago will write it ;)

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Actually, from what I hear, CG -SF is aware of this build. (several people have called it in) Not sure if they are going to do anything but it could get interesting...As a reminder, go to the first page of this thread. Read the interview. James intends to charter the boat in Hawaii.

 

 

Let that sink in for a while...

 

 

Yeah, I saw that. Just wondering what the outcome would be if, in a classy, respectful fashion, someone got on here and said, "listen guys, I just came into $500K; i have this crazy idea to build a boat and sail it to Hawaii; I wonder if any of you would be willing to serve as a team of consultants to help me through the project. I am not out to sue anyone and i'm not going to cause the least kerfluffle, but if some of you could at least watch virtually as I try to put a boat together, and let me know if you think you see something really stupid happening, I would dearly appreciate it and I'd be happy to take you on a beery trip around the bay with some very awesome girls."

 

I guess someone would just say, show us your wife's tits, or something, and that'd be that.

 

 

"Sure. Love to help."

Then I go find a great boat for $200K

"Here you go. My fee is $300K. Have a nice sail."

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1 FUNBUZZ ENDING thing that can be counted on

 

the Kalifornia FTB (Tax Man) shall require a Chunk of Cash

 

Based in a 2013 65' KAT w 3000+ Feet of living space @ whatever that is these daz

 

Sadly for HR the Yearly Tax shall be more than the heap is worth (But Hay he'll only have to worry once)

 

He'll have a Hard time to talk his way out of a $50,000 Tax Bill

 

;)

 

Really, how and on what basis does the CA Francise Tax Board tax a home built vessel? I am unaware of this. Can you explain? I pay State of CA registration fees on my small boats (currently stored on and launched from trailers). CA also taxed me on the purchse price when I bought them, collected through the state registration system. When I had a boat in the water the county also billed me a "property tax". My understanding is that if you fill out the paperwork and pay the nominal fee to the Fed on a "documented vessel" you can operate such a vessel in CA bay and coastal waters without a California registration. Is this not correct?

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1 FUNBUZZ ENDING thing that can be counted on

 

the Kalifornia FTB (Tax Man) shall require a Chunk of Cash

 

Based in a 2013 65' KAT w 3000+ Feet of living space @ whatever that is these daz

 

Sadly for HR the Yearly Tax shall be more than the heap is worth (But Hay he'll only have to worry once)

 

He'll have a Hard time to talk his way out of a $50,000 Tax Bill

 

;)

 

Really, how and on what basis does the CA Francise Tax Board tax a home built vessel? I am unaware of this. Can you explain? I pay registration fees on my small boats (currently stored on and launched from trailers) When I had a boat in the water the county billed me a "property tax". My understanding is that if you fill out the paperwork and pay the nominal fee to the Fed on a "documented vessel" you can operate such a vessel in CA bay and coastal waters without a California registration. Is this not correct?

 

 

in Kalifornia boats valued under like $5,000 are tax exempt (not worth the hassle to collect)

 

Just like PHRF when a New Ride comes to town = They Hit you too hard and correct it later

 

the Tax is on the value and when you tell them its 65' long 32' wide and Brand Facking NEW in 2013

 

they will Guess without going out to see

 

HR will have to Pay without going out to sea (Not coming back is a givin)

 

they go by where you keep it and it won't go far anywhere by water on its bottom

 

perhaps MSP from AC-A could make it a Sovereign Mobile Reservation & temporally floating Casino

 

people could (I would) bet on how many minutes the last piece of either hull remains with the center bits

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Don't take offense. He is just giving you the tools of which we all use to filter the Rod.... Many Many hours if not years were spent reading the rantings of weedo and the hoovians (not to mention murlet) and much of it will help you realize that being a cynical cunt on these pages will serve you well. 99% of the time we are right.....

 

Now I donno if you ever got the propper greeting but unless you read the above links in full (yes there will be a test administered by LR himself)

 

Fuck off NEWB!! Show us your wife/girlfriends TITS!!!!

 

Now I feel better......... biggrin.png

 

No offense taken from the OP. However, I don't seem to speak your language, and as long as your response appears atypical I will contine my attempts to post on this topic in as neutral a manner possible. Otherwise I have many more important things to do.

 

 

Please keep on keepin on. Your insights and perspective are great... really. Best thing to come along in a while. But really, when you get the chance, sit down and read the middle elements of the 1000 days thread and watch the void ho video... You will then understand. Murlet and frank can wait until you are a bit more versed in the ways of SA.... :P

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................Just wondering what the outcome would be if, in a classy, respectful fashion, someone got on here and said, "listen guys, I just came into $500K; i have this crazy idea to build a boat and sail it to Hawaii; I wonder if any of you would be willing to serve as a team of consultants to help me through the project. I am not out to sue anyone and i'm not going to cause the least kerfluffle, but if some of you could at least watch virtually as I try to put a boat together, and let me know if you think you see something really stupid happening, I would dearly appreciate it and I'd be happy to take you on a beery trip around the bay with some very awesome girls."..................

 

I'm clearly not qualified to speculate on what would happen here. But I have been a participant in other forums devoted to auto racing, classic and moden bicycles, houses, alternative energy, and swimming pools where members come together and offer a surprisingly high level of expertise and sometimes even hand's on help to others without any expectations of compensation. This is one of the truely exceptional aspects of the internet. I don't see why sailors would be any different.

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I predict Hotrod's story will follow this arc:

 

Sometime after launching, HR will take the boat out the bay where it will lose steerage. A frantic phone call to the Coasties will follow and the boat will be towed to a marina somewhere where HR will speend thousands of dollars trying to get going again. He will run out of money and the marina will slap a lien on the boat and HR will disappear back into the hills from whence he descended. After floating around for several years, the boat will be rotten as a pumpkin a week after Halloween and the marina will unceremoniously drag the stinking, mildewed hulk on the beach where it will be set upon by front in loaders and the remains stuffed in a set of dumpsters brought in especially for the occasion. And no one will be very sad or surprised.

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I just can't unsee what I originally thought I saw in your avatar clam. It looks like a hairy man butt, not sandy woman butt.

 

 

Jeepers. I'll try to find a better shot but that's a 78 lb., 22 y.o., 4'-11" piece of hotness. No hair other than long black hair on head. I know first impressions are key, but in this case try to put it of your mind.

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I have no way to contact H-R but would like to give him a Burgee / Logo

 

he is free to use to make T-shirts for Crew & to sell

 

He's Welcome in advance

 

 

post-1861-0-77542700-1369428229_thumb.png

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in Kalifornia boats valued under like $5,000 are tax exempt (not worth the hassle to collect)

 

Just like PHRF when a New Ride comes to town = They Hit you too hard and correct it later

 

the Tax is on the value and when you tell them its 65' long 32' wide and Brand Facking NEW in 2013

 

they will Guess without going out to see

 

HR will have to Pay without going out to sea (Not coming back is a givin)

 

they go by where you keep it and it won't go far anywhere by water on its bottom

 

Hey thanks. I was a little confused. You must be talking about the 1% California personal property tax that that gets charged to owners of "big ticket" items like boats and planes. While it is a state tax it is collected by the county where the boat is kept. Under the CA law, as I understand it, you can be taxed for any boat valued at over $400. Yes you read that right $400, but as DA-Woody says they don't bother trying to collect anything on boats worth less than $5000. I suspect the state would have a genuine insurection on their hands if they did. In California everybody who owns and registers a boat is also liable for CA use tax. Its collected along with your yearly registration fee and, as with an auto, diminishes with depreciation over time.

 

Now back to Hot Rod. In talking with him I suspect he is unaware of the California personal property tax or suspects that he can out run it. On the other hand I think he is mistaken or misinformed on the California Use tax. Federally documented vessels are excempt from State Registration and registration fees, but they are still liable for the CA use tax (unless he were to meet some rather stingent conditions). BTW california use tax is not collected by a County Francise Tax Board but by the BOE, The State Board of Equalization. These guys are the ones who collect the sales taxes and they are tenacious - something on the order of a cross between a Barracuda and a Honey Badger.

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On a serious note...

 

How would you move something this heavy to a ramp? Crane would be too expensive, so I'm guessing inflated rollers and a big dozer?

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