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65- by 32-foot catamaran 3200sqft of living space


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Okay, someone is using the likeness of FH. Let's see HR's lawyer bring out that maximum prosecution.

 

HR wasn't too happy and now the lawyer is on the job if you are using a likeness of HR or FH this is your only warning .stop now or face full prosecution to the maximum extent of the law. If your taking pics. have the guts to say i'm posting it on the web ok rod.

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I can assure you, nothing was added to The Rod's replies.   Perhaps sharing my reverence for The Rod, as well as my deep appreciation for the journalistic accomplishments of my Sailing Anarchy predece

And wtf happened to lil'murray.......?

Guy did not grow a vagin! Mr. Hot is full of merde! The only place Mr. Hot has seen a double hurricane is in La Nouvelle Orléans. 

Posted Images

 

Okay, someone is using the likeness of FH. Let's see HR's lawyer bring out that maximum prosecution.

 

HR wasn't too happy and now the lawyer is on the job if you are using a likeness of HR or FH this is your only warning .stop now or face full prosecution to the maximum extent of the law. If your taking pics. have the guts to say i'm posting it on the web ok rod.

Do I get a warning point for that?

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"The sea is beautiful and vast and is going to fucking destroy that piece of shit in about two minutes, everyone is going to die, and seagulls are going to shit on anything still floating. Because the Universe is like that."

 

Hyde:

I like that quote but I think it came from Olin Stephens.

Bob is the master of understatement

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I don't think it is going to sink properly, however I do think it will fill with water until the decks are awash

I get that it's cool to make fun of Mr. Rod, but this is just too much. The Flyin' Hawaiian may not do many things well, but can you at least acknowledge that it will sink properly?

Much as I would like to support HRs effort and spirit I think you're being hopelessly optimistic; I don't expect the Flyin Hawaiian will ever leave the dockside and be given the chance of an honest sinking.

 

I imagine at this moment Mr Rod is looking a little worriedly at the increasing depth of water in his bilges; he will have heard how a wooden boat may seep a little water when launched and will be wondering just when the expected swelling of seams will stem the flow. Eventually a seam will pop open or he'll realise it just ain't stopping and will drag the poor wreck back to the hard.

 

No way is that fine yacht ever leaving the water in one piece. Maybe in a dry dock but that ain't happening.

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I hear Hot Rod has a sweet gig lined up to earn some big bucks.

 

nrhd_zpsc3c55274.jpg

They'll just have HR consulting on the show - Tim Allen will have the lead roll.

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I've been following this thread with growing interest since its inception. I actually wasn't too surprised that it floated after launch and haven't been as negative as most here. However, I do recognize the woeful shortcomings both in design (or lack thereof) craftmanship (ditto) and materials. What is odd is the sense of Deja Vu that this thread has awoken in me of a catamaran delivery trip that I found myself on many years ago that has the same sense of doom surrounding it.

 

I may have to have a good nights sleep and really decide if I want to draw parallels between these two boats as it is late here but I think that there may be a reason to share and compare. I'll have a go at it tomorrow.

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I hear Hot Rod has a sweet gig lined up to earn some big bucks.

 

nrhd_zpsc3c55274.jpg

 

Thank You for wasting your talent on us here

 

I give you an A++ !!!!!!

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I hear Hot Rod has a sweet gig lined up to earn some big bucks.

 

nrhd_zpsc3c55274.jpg

 

And so it begins - Again.....

 

Well done Tabman... May the Photochops multiply...

 

 

with (an only with) talents like his, we could see Pix of H-R's Pile afloat for weeks

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After worrying about if his sliding glass patio door would pop out during launch, what would RH say if he saw this video?

 

 

Steve

 

That's easy.

He'd smirk and wrinkle his forehead at you like you just asked the most trivial, naive question then say, "That's an ORMA 60, Flyin' Hawaiian is a 65, it'll go right over those waves."

 

And he'll actually believe it.

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After worrying about if his sliding glass patio door would pop out during launch, what would RH say if he saw this video?

 

 

Steve

 

That's easy.

He'd smirk and wrinkle his forehead at you like you just asked the most trivial, naive question then say, "That's an ORMA 60, Flyin' Hawaiian is a 65, it'll go right over those waves."

 

And he'll actually believe it.

 

 

the POS in that vid (in H-R's mind) does not even have any 2 X 4's or screws of any kind

 

and no parts meeting UBC Standards

 

Hell it doesn't even have bilge pump hoses out the Port (and Starboard) holes

 

= FAIL :o:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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After worrying about if his sliding glass patio door would pop out during launch, what would RH say if he saw this video?

 

 

Steve

That's easy.

He'd smirk and wrinkle his forehead at you like you just asked the most trivial, naive question then say, "That's an ORMA 60, Flyin' Hawaiian is a 65, it'll go right over those waves."

 

And he'll actually believe it.

 

 

I was thinking "yea, but I'm going to the Pacific",

 

or "It's water, hold your hand under a tap, It is no match for plywood!".

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A P A
The Engineered Wood Association



MARINE GRADE PLYWOOD

Marine-grade plywood is made entirely of Douglas-fir or Western Larch. The grade of all plies of veneer is B or better. B-grade veneer may have knots but no knotholes. A-grade veneer has no knots or knotholes. Both A and B grade may contain wood or synthetic patches. Panels are sanded on both faces or Medium Density Overlay (MDO) or High Density Overlay (HDO). The maximum core-gap size permitted is 1/8 inch. Its exposure durability rating is EXTERIOR and the glue used is a fully waterproof structural adhesive. It is considered a "premium" panel grade for use in situations where these characteristics are required. It is available in 4x8-foot sheets of 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 and 3/4-inch thickness. Sheets up to 5x12-feet are also available. Available grades are A-A, A-B, B-B (face-back), MDO and HDO.

Marine-grade plywood is not treated with any chemicals to enhance its resistance to decay. If decay is a concern, it should be pressure-preservative treated to an appropriate standard.

The detailed description of veneer grades and Marine-grade plywood is contained in Voluntary Product Standard PS 1-95 Construction And Industrial Plywood.

Sample Specification For Marine Grade

APA 3/8" B-B Marine Grade 4x8 10 pieces

Other Exterior Plywood Grades

Plywood panels rated as EXTERIOR but not Marine, such as A-B, A-A or C-C EXTERIOR, may contain any other permissible species and contain C-grade veneer. Unless specially improved, C-grade veneer is permitted to contain knots and knotholes up to approximately 1-1/2 inches across, and the inner plies may have core gaps up to 1-inch wide.


Technical Services Division
January 1996



©1996 APA - The Engineered Wood Association

7011 South 19th Street . P.O. Box 11700 . Tacoma,

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he really would have been better off building all the below water sections inside out, and then use expanding foam insulation stuff, then simply rip off the junk grade ply (treat them as forms only).

 

then he'd just need to glass the foam that remains or whatever :)

 

i wonder if that could work?

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Your info is soo last century, 1996..m'eh!<br />Back when that was written, Monsanto hadn't even planted the genetically modified pre-resined hydrophobic, molecular stabilized, and nano hardened tress that were used to supply the timber for this fine vessel.<br />The timber contains attributes that repel critters, bugs, AND varmints, wehter airbore, waterborne or terrestial.<br />If you strapped a couple of 2nd hand Saturn rockets to this fine vessel, it would orbit more than any space craft ever has and would stay intact and un-burnt on re-entry AND self rescue with a water landing!! Harrumph, Luddites.

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I won't say someone could shit a more solid piece of woodwork

 

butt I'll post this

 

 

horses-ass.jpg

 

 

Jus Postin ;)

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Examination of the brand on one of the plywood sheets shows it as having a code of 24/0, but it is also stamped NOT FOR WALLS. Other sheets have different brands.

 

Typical sheathing and Structural I sheathing have a two-number span rating (e.g., 24/0, 24/16,

32/16, 48/24, etc). For a two-number span rating, the number on the left identifies the span

rating (truss or rafter spacing) if the panel is used in a roof application and the number on the

right identifies the span rating (joist spacing) if the panel is used in a subfloor application. Panels

with the number zero on the right are not allowed to be used in subfloor applications.

http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_gradestampps1ps2

 

So if the plywood is not for walls, and its not for subfloors, then its only use is trusses and roofing. Some of them are branded clearly as construction grade c-x.

It looks as though he has either bought a whole lot of miscellaneous sheets as a job lot, or collected a motley collection as leftovers from building jobs...

Why am I left with the feeling that a divorce settlement has meant that Rod had to empty out his shed .?

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Thanks wombat, will do. I have to kill another 3 slow hours in a totally quiet tool crib with zero customers, but I am deathly afraid I will get sucked in and read the thread all night, and I really need the sleep after 3 17 hour days in a row, mate!

 

Come on! Read the whole thing!

 

I did, and it only took 92 hours. (remember, you didn't really read the whole thing unless you got sucked into every tangent story along the way)

 

It reminds me of the Appalachian Trail through hikers who simply cannot bear the thought of missing a single blaze for fear of not being able to claim that they really hiked the whole trail. I'm not really proud of this, but I did send one all the way back down a mountian once because I merely suggested that his route up had bypassed a 1/4 mile of the AT.

snort! That's funny. Ever read "A Walk In the Woods" by Bill Bryson? Funny AT stuff, pro writer, very good. Recommended.

Yes, Bryson is very funny and I think that is his best book. The one he did about England is also good. He needs to do something similar for sailors/cruisers, it would be a sure best seller.

I'm reading "sunburned country" Never knew how many things could kill you in Austrailia.

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My cat just did a perfect impression of HR - arrived at the litter box, made all the right noises and even ran up and down the hall three times in celebration of her successful movement; but having missed the mark completely some other sod has to clean s**t from the carpet.

 

 

Like HR, at least she got up and did something, and we should all celebrate that.

 

Speaking of celebrating questionably useful acts, my dog managed to drool all the way over the top of her own nose yesterday.

 

libby-drool.jpg

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Examination of the brand on one of the plywood sheets shows it as having a code of 24/0, but it is also stamped NOT FOR WALLS. Other sheets have different brands.

 

Typical sheathing and Structural I sheathing have a two-number span rating (e.g., 24/0, 24/16,

32/16, 48/24, etc). For a two-number span rating, the number on the left identifies the span

rating (truss or rafter spacing) if the panel is used in a roof application and the number on the

right identifies the span rating (joist spacing) if the panel is used in a subfloor application. Panels

with the number zero on the right are not allowed to be used in subfloor applications.

http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_gradestampps1ps2

 

So if the plywood is not for walls, and its not for subfloors, then its only use is trusses and roofing. Some of them are branded clearly as construction grade c-x.

It looks as though he has either bought a whole lot of miscellaneous sheets as a job lot, or collected a motley collection as leftovers from building jobs...

Why am I left with the feeling that a divorce settlement has meant that Rod had to empty out his shed .?

 

Most of what you say is spot on, but you do make a lot of assumptions.

 

Most obvious is about timber. 4 by 2's are not planed without drying in a kiln first, they are NOT planed wet, and wrapped up to dry.

Knot's are not always a week point in timber, wood is denser around the knots and can be a strong point. You have to run the dried, planed timber through a stress grader to find out, Here stress graded timber has die markings on it showing the stress-graders results (different colours).

MMM, none of HR's timbers are die-marked

 

Also a lot about what you said about water intrusion is probably 100% correct, but is also biased on you assumptions that nothing was water proofed before assembly.

 

If we are going to have a fair punt at how long this "yacht" will last, we need assessment’s biased on fact, not 'what TTT think's about it could have been built'

 

It's lasted days so far!

 

So are the bet's on week's, months or is someone going to go years?

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I'm waiting for lilmurray and the romex story too. I'm curious if there's any possibility that the zinc on the carriage bolts would act as anodes for said electricity?

 

OOoo boy, a guy who can't figure out basic carpentry is going to have a try at electrical wiring? I wonder how many stars? This is going to be good... probably very short (pardon the pun) but good.

"Why can't Mr Fork and Mrs Outlet be friends?"

 

HR shouldn't have washed it. A protective layer of dirt would help with longevity, plus everyone knows that one of the worst things you can do to a boat is to get it all wet.

 

FB- Doug

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Expanding foam (the kind HR would use) absorbs water like a sponge. It would only make things worse.

 

Structural foam meant for the marine environment and expanding foam are two different things. Ever see the expanding foam flotation in the floor of an old runabout? Always saturated with water. Structural foam is very expensive and intended to be encapsulated in a structural layup of epoxy and fibreglass or aramid cloth.

 

Neither structural foam, nor expanding foam, has any chance of saving this tragedy.

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The painting with epoxy didnt occur until the hulls were assembled. See page 2 for further details. The mill identification number on the label photographed, is not one of the main American mills. It is a small, labour intensive operation: .

 

>1.2.1 Log sorting and barking
1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown
1.2.3 Sorting and grading
1.2.4 Drying
1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing

 

 

Sawmilling is a less sophisticated activity of the mechanical forest industries. It implies a certain number of operations from handling and transportation of logs to timber drying, sorting and classification which require different types of energy. Whereas in developing countries most of the processes are highly mechanized and the energy requirements are met basically with the generation of a few kW to drive the main saws. The rest of the processes are carried out using animal power and low-cost manpower.

Nevertheless, independently of the nature of the processes and activities involved, all actions aimed to save energy require a detailed analysis of existing processes and possible solutions.

Figure 1 provides a layout of a typical plant and a description of the main processes to familiarize the reader.

1.2.1 Log sorting and barking

On arrival at the mill's storage yard, logs are sorted and stored according to species, diameter, length and end-use, etc. Sufficient quantities are stockpiled to ensure the sawmill's continuous operation, particularly during adverse weather conditions when log extraction and supply from the forests may be adversely affected.

Transportation and handling of logs vary from mill to mill and largely depend on the capacity of the sawmill operation and the size of the loss received. Manual and animal power, as may be used in small portable sawmill units, through to log-carrying front-end loaders and overhead cranes indicate the wide variety of handling equipment currently in use.

Figure 1. Sawmilling - A simplied process flow

Debarking of logs, whether it be undertaken manually or by mechanical debarkers, in the forests or at the mill site, is now becoming a generally adopted practice. Debarking is to safeguard saws and other equipment from undue wear and damage that would otherwise result from stones, metal and other such contraries embedded in the bark; debarking also facilitates the head sawyer to evaluate the timber. Log washers may also be used to remove any remaining sand or dirt that may adher to the logs' surface.

1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown

Before the log is presented to the headrig for breakdown, it is cut to the longest permissible straight length with a cut-off saw, whereupon it is loaded onto the headsaw carriage and positioned in such a manner as to allow the operator to achieve a sawing pattern, which will result in the optimum production of sawntimber with the minimum of waste. The pattern of cut is largely determined by the dimension and condition of the log, as well as the market requirements for the widths and thicknesses of the lumber.

Sawing of the log is achieved by the use of a bandsaw or a circular saw with a second saw mounted vertically above the first in the event of sawing large diameter logs. A log carriage conveys the log through the headsaw on which the log may be clamped and turned, so as to enable it to be presented to the headsaw in order to achieve the best sawing pattern.

Following the headrig, further breakdown of slabs, flitches and cants takes place in the resaw, which enables the wood to be upgraded; thick slabs being sawn into planks and the flitches and cants sawn into planks and boards. The rough round edges of the pieces coming from the headrig and resaws are removed by either a circular saw or chipper edger so as to produce standardized widths as required.

On leaving the headrig, resaw or edger, the lumber is cut to standardized lengths, edges squared and defects removed by the use of one or more fixed or moveable trimming saws, whereupon the lumber proceeds to be sorted and graded.

1.2.3 Sorting and grading

The sawn and trimmed timber is sorted according to thickness, width, length, quality, grade and species depending on the market requirements; such an activity may be undertaken manually or, in the case of mills where low-cost labour is not available, by mechanized sorters. Grading is a means to segregate the lumber according to the overall quality, direction of grain, presence of knots and defects, as well as general appearance, etc.

To protect the sawntimber against attack from fungi and insects, as well as to inhibit the tendency of air-dried lumber to check and split, the ends may be brushed either manually or mechanically dipped in a suitably prepared chemical solution. Wax or paint is applied to the end-grain of lumber to be air-dried, either by brush or spraying, so as to act as a sealant in order to bring about a slower drying of the extremities and hence, give rise to a more uniform drying of the lumber.

1.2.4 Drying

Sawntimber that is not sold green is either air- or kiln-dried, thus improving its marketability. By drying and lowering the moisture content to an acceptable level its value is enhanced by virtue of the fact that the timber is dimensionally stabilized and its strength and colour improved; also a reduction in weight lowers transport costs.

Air drying involves the stacking of sawntimber in piles in the open or under sheds on suitably prepared ground, in such a manner that they are exposed to a good flow of air until such time that the required moisture content is attained.

Although air drying involves minimal capital and operating costs it does require a large amount of land, involves large inventories which constitute a fire risk, and the conditions and rate of drying are very much beyond the yard operator's control.

Kiln drying, on the other hand, enables the sawntimber to dry in a closed and controlled environment where temperature, air circulation and humidity may be regulated so as to achieve the most economical drying conditions without resulting in degrade. The two most common kilns are the batch and progressive type. The former dries the timber in chambers as a batch charge, whereas the latter dries the timber whilst it progresses through the length of the kiln on trucks.

As kiln-drying of sawntimber accounts for some 70-90 percent of the total energy consumed in the sawmilling process, it is now becoming a widely accepted practice in the sawmilling industry to use its residues as a fuel source, the energy value of which may even be surplus to the mill's requirements.

1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing

Before stacking the sawntimber for storage, it is normally inspected for any defects which may have resulted during the drying process, such as split-ends, loose knots, etc., which may be removed by trimming and therefore upgrading its value.

Further upgrading may be effected by surface planing with the use of rotary knife planers or abrasive belts, according to the needs of the market.

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FWIW

There is no structural classification stamp on ply for walls.

All the studs out here all kiln dried and stamped KD. If they are stored outside at the lumberyard or get wet at the boat building site then it kinda negates the KD part although still better than green wood. I haven't seen air dried lumber in a decade or 2. I haven't gone through all the old pics again but I do seem to remember that he was using stud grade 2X4s. While not a superior product it is not necessarily an inferior lumber either and are great at what they are designed to do which is used vertically in wall assembly and for light framing. All of your houses in the US have them. So do a lot of your offices, restaurants etc. We use the shit out of those. Everyone does. I worked for an outfit as a traveling building superintendent for years including northern California and those are used everywhere.

If they were certified for boatbuilding then they would have a BB stamp. Did anyone see a BB stamp?

 

 

 

That was a joke.

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My cat just did a perfect impression of HR - arrived at the litter box, made all the right noises and even ran up and down the hall three times in celebration of her successful movement; but having missed the mark completely some other sod has to clean s**t from the carpet.

 

 

Like HR, at least she got up and did something, and we should all celebrate that.

 

Speaking of celebrating questionably useful acts, my dog managed to drool all the way over the top of her own nose yesterday.

 

libby-drool.jpg

What's the big deal?? I have done this many times!

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Thanks wombat, will do. I have to kill another 3 slow hours in a totally quiet tool crib with zero customers, but I am deathly afraid I will get sucked in and read the thread all night, and I really need the sleep after 3 17 hour days in a row, mate!

 

Edit - Holy Sheepshit Batman!!! That is quite obviously the cheapest crappiest grade of lumber known to man! I wouldn't house my fucking chickens in something built with that. He would have had to coat both sides immediately with a half inch thick epoxy coating to have any hope of it not immediately coming apart. There is a fine line between genius and nutjob and it's pretty obvious which side of the line this poor bastard is. Sad really.....

Wait ... You have fucking.chickens?

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I'm waiting for lilmurray and the romex story too. I'm curious if there's any possibility that the zinc on the carriage bolts would act as anodes for said electricity?

thinking the same thing....lol can you imagine that mess

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I'm waiting for lilmurray and the romex story too. I'm curious if there's any possibility that the zinc on the carriage bolts would act as anodes for said electricity?

thinking the same thing....lol can you imagine that mess

The black is hot and that will zap you. The white is neutral and that might zap you. The green is ground and usually won't zap you unless you are having a bad day. Always test wires for zapiness with your tongue first. Then the black wire goes to the little prong side of the outlet and the white go to the big prong side. The green goes to the green screw. Stick paper clip in little prong side to make sure you got it right. So that's it for 110V. Is HR reading this?

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Thanks wombat, will do. I have to kill another 3 slow hours in a totally quiet tool crib with zero customers, but I am deathly afraid I will get sucked in and read the thread all night, and I really need the sleep after 3 17 hour days in a row, mate!

 

Edit - Holy Sheepshit Batman!!! That is quite obviously the cheapest crappiest grade of lumber known to man! I wouldn't house my fucking chickens in something built with that. He would have had to coat both sides immediately with a half inch thick epoxy coating to have any hope of it not immediately coming apart. There is a fine line between genius and nutjob and it's pretty obvious which side of the line this poor bastard is. Sad really.....

Wait ... You have fucking.chickens?

 

Not yet, but when the house sells, our downsized "empty nest" probably will....

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I'm reading "sunburned country" Never knew how many things everything could kill you in Austrailia.

 

 

Fixed. The house sparrows have venomous fangs. That's why you never see an Australian w/out a beer in one hand. It's for personal defense.*nods*

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I'm waiting for lilmurray and the romex story too. I'm curious if there's any possibility that the zinc on the carriage bolts would act as anodes for said electricity?

thinking the same thing....lol can you imagine that mess

The black is hot and that will zap you. The white is neutral and that might zap you. The green is ground and usually won't zap you unless you are having a bad day. Always test wires for zapiness with your tongue first. Then the black wire goes to the little prong side of the outlet and the white go to the big prong side. The green goes to the green screw. Stick paper clip in little prong side to make sure you got it right. So that's it for 110V. Is HR reading this?

 

What could possible go wrong? I mean, HR is a Master Electrician right?

 

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I'm waiting for lilmurray and the romex story too. I'm curious if there's any possibility that the zinc on the carriage bolts would act as anodes for said electricity?

thinking the same thing....lol can you imagine that mess
The black is hot and that will zap you. The white is neutral and that might zap you. The green is ground and usually won't zap you unless you are having a bad day. Always test wires for zapiness with your tongue first. Then the black wire goes to the little prong side of the outlet and the white go to the big prong side. The green goes to the green screw. Stick paper clip in little prong side to make sure you got it right. So that's it for 110V. Is HR reading this?

What could possible go wrong? I mean, HR is a Master Electrician right?

 

We just desperately need to change the subject before Gobbles blows a gasket arguing about plywood!

 

And HR might not be a master electrician, but during his long haul trucking days, he did move a few trailer loads of wire. That counts.

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Well it’s been in the water a week now. Will it last another week? Trying to organize thoughts on how it will fall apart is getting difficult there are so many ways.

Most Likely:

 

It will slowly sink at its current dock. With bilge pumps now attached it seems likely the seams are leaking and the plywood is losing strength every minute water wicks its way through the hull sheets. There will be a last ditch effort to pull it out of the water. I think it is in the best interest of the marina to let him pull it out. My guess it will be cheaper to break it up on land and haul it away in a couple dumpsters. If it breaks apart in the water they will have to fish it out one piece at a time.

 

Most entertaining:

 

HR will think his sea shack is seaworthy and try and move it, maybe even sail it to another dock. I think his hull sheeting is at its strength limit sitting at the dock. Adding dynamic pressure from moving into the equation will open the seams right up flooding the hulls. The fact his vessel flexes and may very well fold like a taco won’t be an issue; because his hulls won’t remain buoyant long enough for the flexing to become an issue. I do hope he tries to sail with his home made sail. He would at least have a picture to remember it by. I don’t think it will actually sail get blown downwind is more like it.

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Patience, the Romex story is coming. First, in the name of scrupulous, or perhaps ridiculous, accuracy I want to do a little nit picking. None of this may alter anyone’s conclusions, or is it intended to, but again it’s accuracy that is first in my mind.

 

I made a lengthy post on materials used and construction I observed on the “Hawaiian”. I want to clarify and add a few things.

 

1) I noted in a couple of posts that it is literally the case that every piece of lumber used on the boat started as a 2x4. The smaller pieces are cut from 2x4s and the larger pieces are glued up with an epoxy paste and fastened together with screws. The lumber used is rated for a limited structural application; it is, as I observed and my photos indicate, STUD grade. In an absolute sense the lumber is not “substandard” and it is suitable for a defined limited use in homebuilding. You should decide whether or not you think it is appropriate for the use observed here. I did not render such an opinion in my posts. Take a look at the Western Wood Products reference I cited in the post and you will find a detailed description of the standards applied, and the structural properties of this and other grades. As for the plywood in the hulls, as I described it is 3/8 C-D Sheathing Exposure 1. People commonly call this type of material CDX but this is not a plywood grade. None of the panels are or would be marked C-X as suggested by one poster, because such a marking is not used. BTW the deck plywood appears to be 19/32 C-D sheathing. I say “appears” because I could see only a few grade marks for this plywood. I will show some of these in a future post. One area that may be a higher grade is the forward sloping cabin top. If you look at the cabin photos I posted in post # 1607 you will see the underside of this area that displays what looks to be a C grade face. I suppose it is possible that this is C-D plywood with the D face outward but extending the benefit of the doubt maybe this is a better grade used in this area.

2) I want to say three further things about lumber and generally how they may apply to this discussion. First, is that even with STUD grade lumber a very experienced and discriminating carpenter could find some individual pieces in a unit of 2x4s that are likely to be stronger and more appropriate for certain uses than others. That doesn’t mean it was done here, and again both the species and the grain structure matter to how strong each piece is going to be. Second, construction lumber is graded for its structural properties not for how it looks. A clean looking knot free piece of STUD grade lumber can be considerably weaker than a tight knotted #2 or better piece of the same or superior species. Thus, the mere presence of knots and other visible defects is not an indication that the wood is cheap, weak or substandard. Third, I mentioned that the WWPA grades Douglas fir lumber as generally stronger in pretty much all respects over Hem Fir. Some will also know that Doug Fir has been used successfully for boat building on the west coast for generations. I should also note that both of the major local lumber yards here in town (These are big time wholesale/ retail concerns. ) that supply builders in a wide area had as of my last visit, Friday, multiple units of KD #1 & Btr Douglas fir 2x4s. (BTW tons of other lumber was also available. I didn’t see any KD Hem-Fir STUD grade on offer at either place.) My point is that were one to want a far superior piece of lumber in the immediate area it wouldn’t be that difficult to find, provided, of course, that you have the money.

 

3) With some moderate degree of certainty I can say a few things about the fiberglass reinforcement of the boat. The hulls above the waterline are reinforced with glass fabric tape or cut strips of fabric about 6 inches wide along the seams between the plywood sheets. A close up look reveals the texture of glass cloth around the perimeter of the plywood sheets. In the center of the sheets the texture suggests that only a layer of epoxy and paint have been applied. I didn’t see any evidence that chopper cut mat (CSM) was used anywhere on the exterior of the boat as described by a poster here. Of course it could be covered with fabric in places but I don’t think it was used, because the layup looks very thin and in some places so minimally wetted with epoxy that the texture of the fabric can be felt. The exterior surface of the cabin and decks is covered with a layer of fiberglass fabric. It laps over the gunwales and on to the upper Hull surface for maybe 8-10 inches. The sloping forward surface of the cabin may be an exception. The partial profile of the support beams that define the layout of this surface are visible and do not appear covered. Most other areas of the deck and cabin are quite obviously covered because you can see and feel the texture. There are bubbles, blisters and inconsistencies on various areas of the deck

 

4) Observers of my posted photos of the Hawaiian have remarked that they see a significant concave section on the inner surface of the port hull. This photo can be found in post #1865. I have closely examined the photograph and since it was taken the area of the hull discussed. While the lines of the hull are not fair and the surface could be described as wavy, the large depression described by some does not exist. It is a photographic anomaly produced by the light and the angle of the photo relative to the intersection between a chine and a flat surface of the hull.

 

5) There has been much discussion of the carriage bolt attachment of the bridge deck support beams. I have enjoyed reading it. However, I do want to make one bigger picture comment that some might find relevant. While I could find no beams in the boat that span the entire distance between the port and starboard hulls there are other “structural elements” that appear designed to hold the hulls together and preserve the “integrity” of the boat. I was thinking of drawing and posting for discussion a cross section through amidships to illustrate the complete structure. Again, my saying this doesn’t say anything about the adequacy of the additional structure, just that it’s there.

 

6) I made a recent post, #2150 that discussed some hoses exiting the port hull. Several people have picked up on this and at least one other poster observed a hose discharging water from the Hawaiian. Indeed this could be discharge from a bilge(s) pump, but I have no reliable information to indicate that the port hull is actually leaking or that it is awash as some have suggested. I haven’t observed a regular discharge from this hose(s). I suspect we would all be curious to hear from anyone who has recently been below deck in the port hull of the Flyin Hawaiian. The boat does list a bit to port, but this could be due to the fact that there is more weight on this side with the galley, head, batteries and holding tank all located port of the centerline.

 

 

New photos promised with my next post.

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Time for a new pole:

 

Who's fault will it be when the "yacht" sinks.

 

1, Timber supplier for providing sub-standard timber?

 

2, Bolt manufacture for bolt's not withstanding rated load?

 

3, Fibreglass and or resin manufacture for the leaks?

 

4, The galv screw manufacture for not applying enough zinc to their product?

 

5, His calculator for not allowing him to calculate loads correctly?

 

6, the eventual tow vessel, for not going around those waves?

 

7, a random kid with a toy boat that accidentally bumps into it?

 

8, and only to keep the pole balanced, Himself.

You forgot one used by you know who:

 

Bush's Fault

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Guys, completely out of curiosity, what about Romex wire makes it unsuitable for marine use? I ask this out of ignorance as our little J24 has no electrical system and I never looked too closely at the wiring on bigger boats I've been on. It would seem to me that this is the least of HR's problems, but I'm just curious why the type of wiring has been brought up several times.

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Can you saw a penciled line... apply glue ... drive screws? Could you build a box? If so, you can build your own INSTANT BOAT. But it won't be a box. The genius of Phil Bolger guarantees that your completed craft will boast a pleasing sheer and graceful flare. Both looks and performance are designed right into these highly efficient rowing and sailing craft.


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You start right in cutting readily available plywood sheets to pre-computed patterns, and before you know it you will be fastening them together ... all your basic assembly virtually complete. If you are just "average handy" with tools, you can beat the 40-hour schedule mentioned above . . . and be on the water in five working days or less.


Which of the INSTANT BOATS will be yours?


First, write or call for the catalogue. Look over the photos. Each has been built and tested by professional builder Harold H. Payson. In fact, Payson and Bolger teamed up from the start in order to ensure sound craftsmanship along with ease of construction. Not one INSTANT BOAT plan has been released until both these perfectionists declared themselves satisfied. These men have put their reputations and personal pride right on the line.


Late in the season? Suppose you start on the first available weekend. Four or five days later you can start putting paint on your new craft .... a day or two more and you'll be getting compliments from admiring pierside critics.


Take your time if you want to . . . but start NOW. Your INSTANT BOAT will grow so fast under your hands that your progress will astound you. Just as soon as you write or telephone, your INSTANT BOAT is really on the way. The special satisfaction of commanding your own handywork on the water, and being proud of it, will be yours when you wish.


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Wind loading

 

I understand the plan is to install one 10hp outboard on the back of each hull. The question "is 20 hp enough for this 'boat'?" has been asked a number of times and no one has answered.

 

This is a little outside my area of practice (I am an engineer) but here are some thoughts.

 

I have an engineering textbook that says "wind pressures on a wall of building should be assumed at 15 lb/sq ft." A boat is not a building but in this case, let's assume it is (not as far off as one might think).

 

That is an upper design limit: so let's assume a "breeze" is 1/20 that amount. So let's go with 0.75 lbs/sq ft.

 

I think it reasonable that, if you held up a 1' x 1' piece of plywood in a breeze, you might feel 0.75 lbs of force.

 

So far, so good.

 

What is the area of this 'boat'? I will assume the wind is on the beam. Let's go with a length of 65 feet and a height of 15 feet. That is 975 sq feet. I will round that to 1000 sq feet to make the math easy.

 

0.75 lbs/sq ft X 1000 sq feet = 750 lbs.

 

I found on the Internet, someone who claims his 20 hp outboard has a force of 300 lbs. Let's go with that. Converting hp to force depends on a number of factors, but let's just go with that.

 

So if the wind force is 750 lbs of force and the outboards produce 300 lbs, it is pretty clear the engines are undersized for use in what I call a breeze.

 

If anyone wants to improve on this very approximate, back-of-the-envelope calculation, please go ahead. But someone had to make the first estimate.

 

Note that a Gunboat 60 (I checked their website) has 2 x 18 kW propulsion motors (total 36 kW of propulsion). 36 kW = 47 hp.

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If the wind is on his beam he won't be motoring into it... Granted, gut check says 20 hp isn't nearly enough but you'd have to do the calcs for the front of the boat if you're assuming he's powering into it.

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It is confusing but the exposure 1 ply is called CDX by everyone. Just to make it complicated there is also an exterior grade which isn't as common. And an interior grade of CD which must be real shitty. The standard CDX exposure 1 is by far the most prevalent and you will find it everywhere.

It's all here from the APA.....American Plywood Institute.

And 19/32" ply is called 5/8". They rip you off of that extra 1/32".

I remember reading about some guy that had an OSB or Oriented Strand Board mill in Canada. He had a large power yacht built out of the stuff. I wonder how it held up? Keep up the good work Lilmurray.

 

 

What is the difference between Exterior and Exposure 1?

Exterior panels are suitable for applications subject to long-term exposure to weather or moisture.

Exposure 1 panels may be used for applications where construction delays may be expected prior to providing protection. Exposure 1 panels are made with the same exterior adhesives used in Exterior panels. However, because other compositional factors may affect bond performance, only Exterior panels should be used for long-term exposure to weather.

Note: APA Rated Plywood Sheathing Exposure 1, commonly called “CDX” in the trade, is sometimes mistaken as an Exterior panel and erroneously used in applications for which it does not possess the required resistance to weather. “CDX” should only be used for applications as outlined under Exposure 1 above. For sheathing grade panels that will be exposed long-term to weather, specify APA Rated Sheathing Exterior (C-C Exterior plywood under PS 1).

For more information, please refer to Technical Topics: Bond Classification, Form TT-009, available for free PDF download from the APA Publications Library.

http://www.performancepanels.com/single.cfm?content=app_pp_faqs#trademark

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Can you saw a penciled line...h.

 

Most people saw one or the other side of a pencil line not the line itself.

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Examination of the brand on one of the plywood sheets shows it as having a code of 24/0, but it is also stamped NOT FOR WALLS. Other sheets have different brands.

 

Typical sheathing and Structural I sheathing have a two-number span rating (e.g., 24/0, 24/16,

32/16, 48/24, etc). For a two-number span rating, the number on the left identifies the span

rating (truss or rafter spacing) if the panel is used in a roof application and the number on the

right identifies the span rating (joist spacing) if the panel is used in a subfloor application. Panels

with the number zero on the right are not allowed to be used in subfloor applications.

http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_gradestampps1ps2

 

So if the plywood is not for walls, and its not for subfloors, then its only use is trusses and roofing. Some of them are branded clearly as construction grade c-x.

It looks as though he has either bought a whole lot of miscellaneous sheets as a job lot, or collected a motley collection as leftovers from building jobs...

Why am I left with the feeling that a divorce settlement has meant that Rod had to empty out his shed .?

 

Most of what you say is spot on, but you do make a lot of assumptions.

 

Most obvious is about timber. 4 by 2's are not planed without drying in a kiln first, they are NOT planed wet, and wrapped up to dry.

Knot's are not always a week point in timber, wood is denser around the knots and can be a strong point. You have to run the dried, planed timber through a stress grader to find out, Here stress graded timber has die markings on it showing the stress-graders results (different colours).

MMM, none of HR's timbers are die-marked

 

Also a lot about what you said about water intrusion is probably 100% correct, but is also biased on you assumptions that nothing was water proofed before assembly.

 

If we are going to have a fair punt at how long this "yacht" will last, we need assessment’s biased on fact, not 'what TTT think's about it could have been built'

 

It's lasted days so far!

 

So are the bet's on week's, months or is someone going to go years?

 

 

Ummmmmmmm sum 2 X 4's (how we in the US call em) are dried in a kiln

 

they are called kiln dried and are called out and priced as such

 

Building plans that I'v had to work with (of my own jobs as well as others) call for Green Doug Fir #2 & Btr

 

​Sum of those MoFo's weigh a TON and I swear you can hold em at a 45 and water will run out the end (slight exzackturation)

 

 

FYI

http://www.roseburg.com/Product/lumber-and-timbers/

 

OVERVIEW DOUGLAS FIR HEMLOCK WHITE FIR SUSTAINABILITY

Roseburg produces KD and green lumber products from Douglas Fir, White Fir, and Hemlock at our Dillard, Oregon plant, one of the largest stud production facilities in North America. Every part of the plant is designed to Roseburg’s rigid quality standards. Our seamless manufacturing process allows for a large volume of studs (nearly 400 million board feet annually) to be produced cost effectively. The entire manufacturing process is state-of-the-art, using the most advanced technology which maximizes the use of wood fiber in the production process. Our premium quality studs provide excellent structural strength to any construction project.

Key features include:

  • Produced from Roseburg’s excellent stands of timber in Oregon and California.
  • All standard PET lengths plus many more.
  • Custom grades and products, appearance grade premier available in all product.
  • Mixed product shipments.
  • Lumber and Timber Grading agencies: American Lumber Standards (A.L.S.) and Pacific Lumber & Inspection Bureau (P.L.I.B.)
  • Heat Treated (HT) Certificates available for kiln dried lumber.

Lumber Grades:

  • Green Douglas Fir Select Structural
  • Green Douglas Fir #2&Btr
  • KD Douglas Fir 2&Btr
  • KD Hemlock #2&Btr
  • KD White Fir #2&Btr
  • Appearance Grade Premier Products

When And Where You Need It

Roseburg Studs are available throughout North America at some of the largest and most respected wholesale distributors, retail building material dealers and home improvement centers. We encourage you to contact one today to get more information on Roseburg's studs.

usa.jpg

Manufactur

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Guys, completely out of curiosity, what about Romex wire makes it unsuitable for marine use? I ask this out of ignorance as our little J24 has no electrical system and I never looked too closely at the wiring on bigger boats I've been on. It would seem to me that this is the least of HR's problems, but I'm just curious why the type of wiring has been brought up several times.

Romex, or NM rating is not moisture proof. If it had a UF rating, then it would suffice. NM has a paper center.

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Guys, completely out of curiosity, what about Romex wire makes it unsuitable for marine use? I ask this out of ignorance as our little J24 has no electrical system and I never looked too closely at the wiring on bigger boats I've been on. It would seem to me that this is the least of HR's problems, but I'm just curious why the type of wiring has been brought up several times.

 

Boats usually have separate 110VAC and 12VDC circuits... but you knew that - I wonder if HR does? I expect the boat's always had 'shore power', and no thought's been given to what happens when the extension cord no longer reaches. Or what happens when he arrives somewhere that has 240VAC/50Hz power [Ha!]. I haven't heard word of a gas powered generator, but that's probably in the works - or an inverter from Harbor Freight (cheapest imported crap) if he can find $100. And maybe he'll grab the battery out of his truck when he leaves the dock for good.

 

For a true bluewater boat, the AC circuit is relatively unimportant, but the DC stuff is. For a dockside condo, reverse that.

 

Bare copper doesn't do well in the marine environment. For marine grade wire, they coat the conductors with solder (called 'tinning') before the insulation is applied; but that's expensive, so it's not commonly done. And 'Marine Grade' anything isn't Hot Rod's style.

 

 

But, like the galvanizing of the bolts, it's a thoroughly moot point, the boat will sink due to leaks or structural failure long before corrosion can do its job.

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It is confusing but the exposure 1 ply is called CDX by everyone. Just to make it complicated there is also an exterior grade which isn't as common. And an interior grade of CD which must be real shitty. The standard CDX exposure 1 is by far the most prevalent and you will find it everywhere.

It's all here from the APA.....American Plywood Institute.

And 19/32" ply is called 5/8". They rip you off of that extra 1/32".

I remember reading about some guy that had an OSB or Oriented Strand Board mill in Canada. He had a large power yacht built out of the stuff. I wonder how it held up? Keep up the good work Lilmurray.

 

 

What is the difference between Exterior and Exposure 1?

Exterior panels are suitable for applications subject to long-term exposure to weather or moisture.

Exposure 1 panels may be used for applications where construction delays may be expected prior to providing protection. Exposure 1 panels are made with the same exterior adhesives used in Exterior panels. However, because other compositional factors may affect bond performance, only Exterior panels should be used for long-term exposure to weather.

Note: APA Rated Plywood Sheathing Exposure 1, commonly called “CDX” in the trade, is sometimes mistaken as an Exterior panel and erroneously used in applications for which it does not possess the required resistance to weather. “CDX” should only be used for applications as outlined under Exposure 1 above. For sheathing grade panels that will be exposed long-term to weather, specify APA Rated Sheathing Exterior (C-C Exterior plywood under PS 1).

For more information, please refer to Technical Topics: Bond Classification, Form TT-009, available for free PDF download from the APA Publications Library.

http://www.performancepanels.com/single.cfm?content=app_pp_faqs#trademark

 

 

Sand Crab is absolutely correct (also thanks for the encouragement).

 

The main reason all this lumber and plywood grading stuff is so confusing is that the identification system is designed in part to insure that those specifying, buying and using the material can be assured that it is appropriate for it's common usage. The material seen in this case is produced for and is intended to be used in “Light Construction”. This connotes a general standard for buildings not boats. Lumber and plywood produced for use in the marine industry is variously graded and marked differently. In some cases the underlying specifications for determining light construction and marine grades can be similar or overlap. However in general, and with some materials overall, the marine graded materials meet higher specifications for strength and durability because they are designed to do different things in a more challenging environment. To add an additional layer of complexity (not that we need it), but it is not unusual around here to see buildings with exterior plywood decks overlaid with a multi-part urethane deck system where the plywood is specified as “Marine Grade”.

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I had a flash of insight this morning. HR must've read one of many books on boatbuilding, and he thought "why do they build a boat, then put that frozen snot shit stuff all over it? Wood Floats?"

 

He's basically trying to sail a male plug of a boat(which can work if build like a boat)… with all the weaknesses already described….

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Guys, completely out of curiosity, what about Romex wire makes it unsuitable for marine use? I ask this out of ignorance as our little J24 has no electrical system and I never looked too closely at the wiring on bigger boats I've been on. It would seem to me that this is the least of HR's problems, but I'm just curious why the type of wiring has been brought up several times.

 

Other than what has already been stated (not tinned, not water proof) Romex is also a solid conductor, only stranded conductors should be used on a boat.

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so - should he pull her back on land, let her dry out a bit, and then cover her with 3/8" glass and polyester? (I'd say epoxy as it's wood, but we know that's not in the budget)

 

say he builds a "pan" up to about 6" above the WL, and then uses waterproofing paint above that. Will it keep the water out long enough to go "full taco"?

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Well, even with all the deadly spiders, snakes, jellyfish, stonefish, poison octopus and <shudder> Foster's Lager, I still think its probably more dangerous to spend a day on the Flyin' Hawaiian than on Australia.

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so - should he pull her back on land, let her dry out a bit, and then cover her with 3/8" glass and polyester? (I'd say epoxy as it's wood, but we know that's not in the budget)

 

say he builds a "pan" up to about 6" above the WL, and then uses waterproofing paint above that. Will it keep the water out long enough to go "full taco"?

 

I was started down that thought path, but the continuing string of 'shoulda-woulda-coulda's made my head hurt.

 

Yes, nice thick coat of glass/resin over the whole outside might make it waterproof.

A nice thick coat on the inside of the hulls might turn that frame/stringer mess strong enough to hold up to a few bumps

And if he glassed all the around the connections between hull and bridgedeck...

And if he did this... and that... and a few other things...

 

He'd still have an worthless pile of shit.

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so - should he pull her back on land, let her dry out a bit, and then cover her with 3/8" glass and polyester? (I'd say epoxy as it's wood, but we know that's not in the budget)

 

say he builds a "pan" up to about 6" above the WL, and then uses waterproofing paint above that. Will it keep the water out long enough to go "full taco"?

C'mon, Occam, let's not make it any less biodegradable than it already is. Think of the impact on our future generations, amigo.

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I don't see how wiring is going to end up being his problem. HR seems to have enough, shorter term concerns than something as trivial ( har har ) wiring. One week in and he's likely to start seeing some alterations in how its floating. That 3/8 will begin soaking up water through all those screw holes if nothing else. Not sure it will even have time to rust.

From what I can gather so far about the structural design, its got some kinda truss system is what I'd guess. Wont work cause of how badly its put together but its was, to put it in its best possible light, a try. Roof trusses are generally held together with gussets pressed into the 2xs, they often fall apart before they are even on the roof and even there they're spaced 2 OC rather than 4.

Bolts you say, nope not going to alter the outcome just as described in so many other posts before, so I'll forgo getting to far into something already discussed to death. But I will mention that the tensile strength of the 2/4 at the connection is far far below the forces that would be put on it in even a mild sea, hell probably just what he might experience in a rough day at the dock. That bolts going to pull through in an eye popping jaw dropping moment of realization for ole Rod Moe. I just wish there was a camera rigged to go off when it does. Maybe someone could sneak a box camera in there and set up a string off the trigger to the end of that 2x and kinda aimed in the most likely direction our boy Rod Moe might be gawking at it from. If it survives, it's be one of the most famous engineering disaster shots of all time.

Long story short whoever's doing the pool, I'll take Wed the 25th of this month right around midnight. Or whenever the first storm hits.

Cheers
B

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In respone to a recent post, Yes, Hotrod does have a gasoline powered generator, plus 2 large solar panels and a wind generator. I hope he has a VHF radio and EPIRB. Photo in post 2164 shows generator.

 

Maybe SA should crowd source a yellowbrick system for our buddy HR. Now that he's out on the end tie its difficult to see him.

 

Last night the 3 amigos were still cleaning up the build lot, so everything must be just dandy abound the HF. Maybe he will get his deposit back. Ha ha, you know he's behind in fees.

 

I commented on the bilge water being pumped out but that was during the wash down. I decided not to taste test it for fresh/salt water.

 

The substandard building materials really don't matter, nothing is stronger than surf and rock. Sails won't work, outboards wont work. If he gets towed out to the central bay it might get sucked out to sea if he manages to miss the bridge towers. Better hurry, it's expensive to get that crap out of the water in the marina. How long will it be before it ends up in the bay debris dock in Richardson Bay? The Claw is coming. Never should have been launched!

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Wind loading

 

I understand the plan is to install one 10hp outboard on the back of each hull. The question "is 20 hp enough for this 'boat'?" has been asked a number of times and no one has answered.

 

This is a little outside my area of practice (I am an engineer) but here are some thoughts.

 

I have an engineering textbook that says "wind pressures on a wall of building should be assumed at 15 lb/sq ft." A boat is not a building but in this case, let's assume it is (not as far off as one might think).

 

That is an upper design limit: so let's assume a "breeze" is 1/20 that amount. So let's go with 0.75 lbs/sq ft.

 

I think it reasonable that, if you held up a 1' x 1' piece of plywood in a breeze, you might feel 0.75 lbs of force.

 

So far, so good.

 

What is the area of this 'boat'? I will assume the wind is on the beam. Let's go with a length of 65 feet and a height of 15 feet. That is 975 sq feet. I will round that to 1000 sq feet to make the math easy.

 

0.75 lbs/sq ft X 1000 sq feet = 750 lbs.

 

I found on the Internet, someone who claims his 20 hp outboard has a force of 300 lbs. Let's go with that. Converting hp to force depends on a number of factors, but let's just go with that.

 

So if the wind force is 750 lbs of force and the outboards produce 300 lbs, it is pretty clear the engines are undersized for use in what I call a breeze.

 

If anyone wants to improve on this very approximate, back-of-the-envelope calculation, please go ahead. But someone had to make the first estimate.

 

Note that a Gunboat 60 (I checked their website) has 2 x 18 kW propulsion motors (total 36 kW of propulsion). 36 kW = 47 hp.

To be fair, most of the 9.8/9.9 HP outboards are actually around 12 HP in real life. HotRod's much safer with 24 HP! :D

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I don't see how wiring is going to end up being his problem. ... ... ...

 

Long story short whoever's doing the pool, I'll take Wed the 25th of this month right around midnight. Or whenever the first storm hits.

 

 

 

 

Can you make book on "when the first storm hits?" I think if you want to hedge, you need to be more specific.

 

I think the Moment Will Arrive a week sooner, put me down for the 18th. Or winds exceeding 20 kt, or a big-ass motorboat wake, or the first time he takes it outside the breakwall of the marina.

 

HotRod is already seeing changes in the way it floats, the hulls are rotating outward and are slanted visibly as well as lower in the water. But if our boy knows one thing, it's how to work in truly bull-headed fashion against all obstacles. I think the good sailing vessel FH is already compromised beyond being able to pull it out of the water, plus it's going to take a much bigger tow vehicle to get it up than to let it down.

 

FB- Doug

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Note that a Gunboat 60 (I checked their website) has 2 x 18 kW propulsion motors (total 36 kW of propulsion). 36 kW = 47 hp.

 

I think the weight is the determining factor when sizing motors.

The Gunboat 60 weighs in at 40,000lbs if I'm reading the website spec right. That's about 850lbs/hp.

HR's turbo FH only weighs 12,000lbs to 15,000lbs in "race mode" and has 18hp (2 x 9hp). So that's 830lbs/hp.

 

FH is going to motor faster than a Gunboat 60. Of course, with no daggerboards and a steering system that couldn't turn a bathtub, it's anyone's guess where the motors will take it.

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One rule is about 4 HP per ton minimum. Another is about 1HP per ft. HRs boat will weigh over 20 tons if completed and holds together. Check 60' cats and you will see that they all have pretty substantial motors. 100 HP per hull is not unreasonable.

 

Many boats use untinned non marine grade stranded wire. It's not that expensive. They say Romex is not made for a moving vehicle but my 2 RVs had it. WTF?

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Note that a Gunboat 60 (I checked their website) has 2 x 18 kW propulsion motors (total 36 kW of propulsion). 36 kW = 47 hp.

 

I think the weight is the determining factor when sizing motors.

The Gunboat 60 weighs in at 40,000lbs if I'm reading the website spec right. That's about 850lbs/hp.

HR's turbo FH only weighs 12,000lbs to 15,000lbs in "race mode" and has 18hp (2 x 9hp). So that's 830lbs/hp.

 

FH is going to motor faster than a Gunboat 60. Of course, with no daggerboards and a steering system that couldn't turn a bathtub, it's anyone's guess where the motors will take it.

 

I think the website is off. The brochure pdf says 27k light or 33k loaded. Seems more likely and in line with what I recall reading in previous reviews. 40k is just way too much given all that CF.

 

HR just needs 2 more outboards. Quads = awesome.

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bluenosejr - why should one only use stranded conductors on a boat? What is wrong with solid? Is it a corrosion issue? Any more pictures of his wiring jobs? I did notice a completely exposed blue plastic junction box with everything hanging out. Aslo who know how much work he is getting done on it now that he has his TV and xbox360 installed in the boat!

 

everyone talking about outboards - Isn't the gunboat comparison off as prop design/pitch and engine torque are much more important than hp numbers. Everyone just uses hp because the outboard buying fishing crowd is already familiar with the measurement and like their car / truck the bigger the number the better. Where as its been proven time and time again that if you spend the same amount of money increasing HP or lightening a car, lightening the car will have a much larger impact on speed/acceleration. I only bring it up because the gunboat with only 46 hp seems low (I know its has electric motors and HP was calculated of from KW)

 

I'm thinking that he might get a knot or 3 out of the outboards he has. That is if he mount them correctly and the boat so that they don't tear the boat apart when he goes to full throttle. In fact if he can make the boat move in within 10 degrees of where his bows are pointed (those are pointed in the same direction right?) he should consider that a success.

 

Thanks for the education about low grade building lumber carriage bolts and how not to do fiberglass.

 

Where did Nana the sock puppet go? That was good for at least two or three more posts.

 

PLEASE POST MORE PICTURES EVEN JUST IT SITTING AT THE DOCK. NOT ALL OF US CAN GET TO SAN FRAN TO WATCH THIS THING SINK!

 

And someone please push him to take it out for a 'shake down cruise'. This thing, for his and our sakes, needs a climatic finish to it. FH falling apart at the dock just won't be a fitting end to this story. And perhaps HR might figure out that he was completely over his head the entire time and should not attempt anything like this again, or at least listen to the skeptics and it doesn't seem that anything less than the traumatic experience of FH sinking beneath him and the coasties pulling him out of the bay will convince him otherwise.

 

Or who knows he might prove us all wrong and the thing might make it to Hawaii. If it does look for me at Home Depot buying CDX, low grade plywood and galvanized screws for FH2!

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why should one only use stranded conductors on a boat? What is wrong with solid?

Vibration/fatigue makes solid cables fracture.

 

Just finished a big rewiring job, 200 metres of tinned multistrand with glue lined heatshrink butts and Bulgin connectors on a loom that should still operate when completely submerged.

 

For what it's worth, I have a friend over here who's a bit of an HR. He even looks like him, and he has just as many wacko ideas. I think it's the hat that does it...

 

 

By the way, I have photos of my mates girlfriend's tits, do you want to see them? :D

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Bla - Bla - Bla

 

By the way, I have photos of my mates girlfriend's tits, do you want to see them? :D

 

Yes !!!!

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And someone please push him to take it out for a 'shake down cruise'. This thing, for his and our sakes, needs a climatic finish to it. FH falling apart at the dock just won't be a fitting end to this story. And perhaps HR might figure out that he was completely over his head the entire time and should not attempt anything like this again, or at least listen to the skeptics and it doesn't seem that anything less than the traumatic experience of FH sinking beneath him and the coasties pulling him out of the bay will convince him otherwise.

So HR needs to take HR out "over his head" so he can be properly shown that he is over his head? I like it it! Lets go with it. We all get credit for being great humanitarians in the process. Its beautiful man.

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so - should he pull her back on land, let her dry out a bit, and then cover her with 3/8" glass and polyester? (I'd say epoxy as it's wood, but we know that's not in the budget)

 

say he builds a "pan" up to about 6" above the WL, and then uses waterproofing paint above that. Will it keep the water out long enough to go "full taco"?

I was started down that thought path, but the continuing string of 'shoulda-woulda-coulda's made my head hurt.

 

Yes, nice thick coat of glass/resin over the whole outside might make it waterproof.

A nice thick coat on the inside of the hulls might turn that frame/stringer mess strong enough to hold up to a few bumps

And if he glassed all the around the connections between hull and bridgedeck...

And if he did this... and that... and a few other things...

 

He'd still have an worthless pile of shit.

That much glass and resin would cost $50k? More?

 

It doesn't seem reasonable to throw that kind of money at it, because it might still.have major structural issues. I say, get a good liferaft, keep it in the bay, when it starts leaking too much get it to a dock, keep it pumped out enough to float, find someone to buy it for $1, let them haul it out and use the wood for one of those University homecoming rally bonfires.

 

The students will be too drunk to notice that they're breathing in epoxy and burning polyethylene.

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bluenosejr - why should one only use stranded conductors on a boat? What is wrong with solid? Is it a corrosion issue?

 

Fatigue issue. Copper (and all copper alloys) work harden very easily & become brittle. A single fat strand is more prone to fatigue than a bundle of thin strands. You can only bend a piece of solid copper wire (like Romex) about 3 times to 90 degrees before it snaps. That's why you don't want it anywhere flex, vibration, or cyclical loading might come into play. Like on a boat.

 

Stranded wire will also fatigue, given enuf motion and time. So any sort of wire should be well supported and neatly dressed to prevent flex.

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bluenosejr - why should one only use stranded conductors on a boat? What is wrong with solid? Is it a corrosion issue?

 

Fatigue issue. Copper (and all copper alloys) work harden very easily & become brittle. A single fat strand is more prone to fatigue than a bundle of thin strands. You can only bend a piece of solid copper wire (like Romex) about 3 times to 90 degrees before it snaps. That's why you don't want it anywhere flex, vibration, or cyclical loading might come into play. Like on a boat.

 

Stranded wire will also fatigue, given enuf motion and time. So any sort of wire should be well supported and neatly dressed to prevent flex.

That's what I would have said.

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Someone said that the Lateen sail will probably be something the mother in law whipped up from patchwork quilt squares or polytarps. Hotrod is saving the greatest spectacle until last. That will be the hoisting of an old mainsail UPSIDE DOWN as a lateen sail. Its a given that FH wont be sailing to windward ever, so when he eventually is towed into a broad reach position with the UPSIDE DOWN mainsail already hoisted and sheeted on, what is likely to happen first ?

 

(a) The mast spears through the cabin roof and through the wheelchair seat because the bowman mother in law was in the sewer already, waiting for the kite drop ?

( b ) The verandah roof self furls and the verandah posts are automatically removed by the backstay, giving the helming station unsurpassed and momentary views of the self reefing rig...

(c ) The windward aft chainplate coachbolt decides to shear given its loading exceeds the walmart garden gate stress test.

(d) The tapered mast section realises its upside down, in relation to the mainsail loads and direction, and automatically self reefs.

(e) The lateen sheet turning block realises it is loaded beyond the walmart roller blind authorised load limits, and the flapping sheet wraps itself around the leeward rudder controls...

(f) The boat chinese gybes, the biggest bits head for china (straight down) and North Korea, thinking they are being gybed at again, launches in retaliation.

(g) Budda intervenes and teaches Rod the sacred sideslip, automatically self furling the leeward hull.

(h) Nothing at all. The boat just sits there motionless while rigging wire strands go ping ping ping. The anticlimax for the antichrist.

(i) The Kraken is summonsed by the low frequency hum of a finely tuned machine racing at 40 knots...

(j) The leeward rudderblade joins the pacific gyre ahead of schedule, and the windward one washes up as debris on the Japanese coastline ( thats karma).

(k) Spectator vessels are obliterated from the shrapnel of 2000 exploding cabin windows.

(L) The hulls fold like a taco shell and before it can crazy ivan even once, the sea closes over it all with barely a hiss. Moms foredeck glove (minus mum) floats to the surface where it is choked on by Flipper, the only talking dolphin in the world because he was laughing too much to notice (barsteds).

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Note that a Gunboat 60 (I checked their website) has 2 x 18 kW propulsion motors (total 36 kW of propulsion). 36 kW = 47 hp.

 

I think the weight is the determining factor when sizing motors.

The Gunboat 60 weighs in at 40,000lbs if I'm reading the website spec right. That's about 850lbs/hp.

HR's turbo FH only weighs 12,000lbs to 15,000lbs in "race mode" and has 18hp (2 x 9hp). So that's 830lbs/hp.

 

FH is going to motor faster than a Gunboat 60. Of course, with no daggerboards and a steering system that couldn't turn a bathtub, it's anyone's guess where the motors will take it.

 

I think the website is off. The brochure pdf says 27k light or 33k loaded. Seems more likely and in line with what I recall reading in previous reviews. 40k is just way too much given all that CF.

 

HR just needs 2 more outboards. Quads = awesome.

Yeah, I was just using some "Hotrod Logic" there. A pair of 9hp outboards with trolling props isn't going to move that thing more than 0.01 knots in any direction. However, once free of the bridge deck, it might be entertaining to watch the individual hulls motor around in slow circles in the harbor. Hope the Xbox doesn't get wet.

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He has a super secret plan, and I got this from the National Inquirer (source wanted to remain anonymous)

 

Plan is to tow as far up Richardson bay as possible, perhaps near Kappas Marina and that sunken tugboat live-aboard, if that's still there. (crazy lady would always yell something at me from that sunken tug when I would zip by in the inflatable)

 

HotRods plan is to deploy secret foils, obtained from the Oracle campaigns first efforts, and permanently attach to the seafloor. Using an ingenious and home-engineered solution, the FH will appear to "float" when all the while the weight is on the foils.

 

No sinking or drama here folks.

 

Free waterfront condo with a sliding door!

 

Brilliant!

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Holy Krapp, cunning plan Rodman,

but before he could attach them to the 15/32 plywood hull sides, he would need to first drive them into the sand hard enough. So he will need the 4wd winch off the Rodmobile and the momentary use of the batteries off his utility belt, hooked in tandem to those driving the bilge pump. It would be touch and go whether he could get a screw in fast enough, before the water closed over the decks and shorted out the winch off the Rodmobile. It all depends whether Rodman is sufficiently quick off the draw with the battery drill. Stay tuned to the next exciting adventure.... Will he sucksea'd or will Rodman be FOILED again ?

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