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Methinks someone forgot their humor goggles- doubtful any "HotRod Supporters" actually think he should endanger himself, his family, or the health of the environment by actually voyaging anywhere more than a mile or two into water deeper than 10 feet, or seriously making any attempt to do so. It's just a grand, glorious trainwreck we can't help but watch, and laugh at a bit because it's more fun than crying...this is supposed to be a free country after all, and a guy gets to have his shot at glory, no matter how ill concieved and fractally wrong at every level.

 

 

That said, Go The Fly in Hawaiian!

 

Yep, this is widely said to be a free country; however "free" doesn't mean you should be a squatter unless you personally have chased the Indians off the land.

 

Personally I could care less if HotRod endangers himself or his family, that's what freedom means to me: I'm not going to stop you from jumping off a cliff, nor pay a nanny's salary for you. Not do I expect anybody to do it for me.

 

I am all in favor of people building their dreams. Especially if that dream is half-baked (or less). Remember, your purpose in life may be not only to serve as a warning to others, but to serve as their amusement as well! However I don't like cleaning up after deadbeats and my sympathy is for the people who will be called on to clean up this mess when HotRod actually tries to sail his botch-up and probably rescue him & his family if he goes into water deeper than 5' (much less 10).

 

FB- Doug

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I can assure you, nothing was added to The Rod's replies.   Perhaps sharing my reverence for The Rod, as well as my deep appreciation for the journalistic accomplishments of my Sailing Anarchy predece

And wtf happened to lil'murray.......?

Guy did not grow a vagin! Mr. Hot is full of merde! The only place Mr. Hot has seen a double hurricane is in La Nouvelle Orléans. 

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Good golly people.... Tongue in cheek.... It's a joke for sure. Look, I cruise/live on a C&C 39 which is Bob's favorite boat of all time... I wouldn't set foot on a Hunter, a BendyToy, nor a Irwin or any number of pieces of crap out there. Fucking relax. Nobody stops those dumbasses from trying to cross oceans, yet in my opinion they are just as fucking dangerous. So what if he crashes and drowns? You all glorify the guy who lost his keel and decided to go the distance and bring the boat back. When he had an AMVER alongside? Really? Is the Rod any more crazy? I as a 100 ton masters with all endorsements who has at least a dozen rescues under his belt doesn't think so. There is an expression in Danish that when roughly translated says, "You can lead a horse to water, but it is still a horse."

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Good golly people.... Tongue in cheek.... It's a joke for sure. Look, I cruise/live on a C&C 39 which is Bob's favorite boat of all time... I wouldn't set foot on a Hunter, a BendyToy, nor a Irwin or any number of pieces of crap out there. Fucking relax. Nobody stops those dumbasses from trying to cross oceans, yet in my opinion they are just as fucking dangerous. So what if he crashes and drowns? You all glorify the guy who lost his keel and decided to go the distance and bring the boat back. When he had an AMVER alongside? Really? Is the Rod any more crazy? I as a 100 ton masters with all endorsements who has at least a dozen rescues under his belt doesn't think so. There is an expression in Danish that when roughly translated says, "You can lead a horse to water, but it is still a horse."

oh, no worries. Sorry for taking it seriously

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I wonder if the collective brain trust here has ever actually completed a boat let alone a boat project except for applying Cetol to brightwork...

Well, I'm a professional wooden boat-specialist shipwright, for one. That enough credentials for ya? Redviking, for you to somehow be defending the Hot Rod and his project here, however slightly, makes you to somewhat be an accomplice to his ignorance and delusion of adequacy. C'mon, dude! Go back a few pages and look at the interior construction details lilmurray posted again. Thumb through a book or two on boat construction. Hell, look at thousands of yachts. Note any differences?

 

I don't think it reflects very well on your own sense of judgement or empathy to be cheering on James Lane's attempts to get his family out into deep water in this desperately ill-conceived boat. The kindest thing would be for it to finish failing sooner rather than later, while the impact and the casualty list is as minimal as possible.

 

But if you honestly think this boat should try to make it out to Hawaii, you are as clueless and divorced from reality as the Hot Rod himself. Don't be that way, redviking! You have a chance to learn and reflect in ways that ol' Hot Rod can't any more since he's dug in to his hole so deeply. You owe it to yourself--even if only for the intellectual exercise, if not for the practical purpose of perhaps someday building your own boat--to really study and understand just why and how the Flying Hawaiin is so utterly and fractally wrong at every level of resolution.

Methinks someone forgot their humor goggles- doubtful any "HotRod Supporters" actually think he should endanger himself, his family, or the health of the environment by actually voyaging anywhere more than a mile or two into water deeper than 10 feet, or seriously making any attempt to do so. It's just a grand, glorious trainwreck we can't help but watch, and laugh at a bit because it's more fun than crying...this is supposed to be a free country after all, and a guy gets to have his shot at glory, no matter how ill concieved and fractally wrong at every level.

 

That said, Go The Fly in Hawaiian!

 

Somebody get's it.... Geez....

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Red Viking - question for you? C&C 39 is indeed one of the all time bests, IMHO, but are Bendy Toys really that bad? I have not really checked one out in depth, only done a couple short deliveries as mate on a new 36 between boat shows. Not really my cuppa, but on the surface seemed to have decent build quality? Agree with you heartily about the Hunters and Irwins!!

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As the only person who knows how tp pick up a fucking phone and Ask "Waz-Up"

 

I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are You READY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the Global Explorer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on -3

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

guess he's going to wait for a Flat Calm day to make for The Island's Mon rasta.gif

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Back in the depression there was a man who built a boat in Virginia. He and his family drove it across the country to Washington, whereby they'd sail to Alaska to claim homesteading land the government was giving away. It was an ugly homebuilt boat, but it made it to Alaska. Despite at one point having the children prohibited being on it because it was feared it'd sink.

 

There's a nice contrast in reasoning, willpower, and likely results between hotrod and said family that nicely mirrors the changes in the world.

NO comparison.

 

The "ark" had a steel frame and 2" oak planks.

 

No comparison.

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As the only person who knows how tp pick up a fucking phone and Ask "Waz-Up"

 

I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

This would seem to indicate that he knows how unsound his vessel is.

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Back in the depression there was a man who built a boat in Virginia. He and his family drove it across the country to Washington, whereby they'd sail to Alaska to claim homesteading land the government was giving away. It was an ugly homebuilt boat, but it made it to Alaska. Despite at one point having the children prohibited being on it because it was feared it'd sink.

 

There's a nice contrast in reasoning, willpower, and likely results between hotrod and said family that nicely mirrors the changes in the world.

NO comparison.

 

The "ark" had a steel frame and 2" oak planks.

 

No comparison.

 

Right, I think that was part of MJ's point- down-on-his-luck guy (who by the way WANTED to work to support his family) scrounges material to build a road vehicle which crossed the country and then was converted into a boat and then made it to Alaska. The story doesn't say why he never received his homestead plots.

 

HotRod states right up front that he doesn't want to work, buys material from a big-box retailer and figures "heck they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't good enough to build a boat out of" and can't really go anywhere. I admire his tenacity and determination to solve problems, but if he'd actually pay attention he wouldn't have so many problems to solve.

 

That was then, this is now.

 

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Cool photos of the original engine found in AK...

 

 

I wonder where the Harley will be found a couple months from now?

Um, Sturgis?

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Cool photos of the original engine found in AK...

 

 

I wonder where the Harley will be found a couple months from now?

Um, Sturgis?

 

 

actually, he's going to reconfigure it and attach a prop to it and power the boat that way.. viola v-twin power..

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I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

This would seem to indicate that he knows how unsound his vessel is.

 

He?

 

I think the Loch Lomond Marina management knows a disaster in the making when they see one. And a PR nightmare.

 

There is no way they want to read in the paper or watch on the news as a water-logged HotRod, freshly plucked from a mid-bay rescue, tells the reporter, "We didn't want to leave, but the marina MADE us leave in those unsafe storm conditions."

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As exciting as we all hoped it would be, HR is not likely to ever venture out into the Bay or mud flats. Nobody is that crazy, even HR. -except maybe the Marina, They continue to give him every break. In the old day it wasn't always about business and profits and liability, there was more freedom compared to today. And why are things worse? Because people like HR take advantage and f$ck things up for everybody else.

 

Rate for Catamarans is $12 per foot plus $300 live aboard fee = $1092 per month, good luck collecting!

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

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Perhaps if the USGC were called in by Stake Holders of the Marina

 

and told that that the POS can't stay = Not paying and blocking whatever

 

AND the Marina can Not accept the responsibility of sending the POS into harms way

 

They USCG could Condemn it, Remove Souls and haul it to impound area for Everyone's Own Good

 

H-R could then be givin a chance to prove it Sea Bay Back Water Marsh Trailer worthy and get it back

 

That POS Shall make Landfall Landfill in 24hrs or Flexie Water ;)

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Red Viking - question for you? C&C 39 is indeed one of the all time bests, IMHO, but are Bendy Toys really that bad? I have not really checked one out in depth, only done a couple short deliveries as mate on a new 36 between boat shows. Not really my cuppa, but on the surface seemed to have decent build quality? Agree with you heartily about the Hunters and Irwins!!

HR's build isn't much worse than that of a BendyToy, hence the nickname. I'm glad we agree on the others and I will admit to driving a BendyToy as well as a Jeanneau, and even a Catalina in my illustrious seafaring career. I always thought those boats should come with bumper stickers that said, "I'd rather be driving my Pacific Seacraft."

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There is no comparison of the FH to even the most half-ass production built vessels sold.

 

The Worst-sailing piece of crap I can think of offhand would be the Clipper Marine 21 - (just terrible boats), a derelict example of which would be FAR more seaworthy than the Floating Hawaiian will EVER be.

 

I'm embarrassed by connection - they should NOT issue homeports at will like that, there really should be NO affiliation of this hulk to the Sandwich islands.

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I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

This would seem to indicate that he knows how unsound his vessel is.

 

He?

 

I think the Loch Lomond Marina management knows a disaster in the making when they see one. And a PR nightmare.

 

There is no way they want to read in the paper or watch on the news as a water-logged HotRod, freshly plucked from a mid-bay rescue, tells the reporter, "We didn't want to leave, but the marina MADE us leave in those unsafe storm conditions."

 

And they'd have explaining and cleaning to do when it blocks the narrow channel to the other marina patrons.

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As exciting as we all hoped it would be, HR is not likely to ever venture out into the Bay or mud flats. Nobody is that crazy, even HR. -except maybe the Marina, They continue to give him every break. In the old day it wasn't always about business and profits and liability, there was more freedom compared to today. And why are things worse? Because people like HR take advantage and f$ck things up for everybody else.

 

Rate for Catamarans is $12 per foot plus $300 live aboard fee = $1092 per month, good luck collecting!

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

So this beggs the question,

If you were paying slip fees + liveaboard, would you continue to pay while this heap sits in a prime location blocking your sunset view??

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As exciting as we all hoped it would be, HR is not likely to ever venture out into the Bay or mud flats. Nobody is that crazy, even HR. -except maybe the Marina, They continue to give him every break. In the old day it wasn't always about business and profits and liability, there was more freedom compared to today. And why are things worse? Because people like HR take advantage and f$ck things up for everybody else.

 

Rate for Catamarans is $12 per foot plus $300 live aboard fee = $1092 per month, good luck collecting!

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

So this beggs the question,

If you were paying slip fees + liveaboard, would you continue to pay while this heap sits in a prime location blocking your sunset view??

 

Remember that scene from M*A*S*H; "Fair's fair Henry. If I kiss Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?"

 

I know if I was paying to keep a boat there and this guy was getting a free pass I would be mentioning the irony to the management every time I saw them.

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As exciting as we all hoped it would be, HR is not likely to ever venture out into the Bay or mud flats. Nobody is that crazy, even HR. -except maybe the Marina, They continue to give him every break. In the old day it wasn't always about business and profits and liability, there was more freedom compared to today. And why are things worse? Because people like HR take advantage and f$ck things up for everybody else.

 

Rate for Catamarans is $12 per foot plus $300 live aboard fee = $1092 per month, good luck collecting!

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

So this beggs the question,

If you were paying slip fees + liveaboard, would you continue to pay while this heap sits in a prime location blocking your sunset view??

People live aboard MacGregors? Is that 5th mode?

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I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

This would seem to indicate that he knows how unsound his vessel is.

 

He?

 

I think the Loch Lomond Marina management knows a disaster in the making when they see one. And a PR nightmare.

 

There is no way they want to read in the paper or watch on the news as a water-logged HotRod, freshly plucked from a mid-bay rescue, tells the reporter, "We didn't want to leave, but the marina MADE us leave in those unsafe storm conditions."

 

Another one straight out of the George McKay playbook. " Oooh, you can't force me to go to sea, I have to find new crew." When he is told that he can go anywhere he wants, as long as he leaves the private property he is attempting to squat on, its; "I was forced out into the cruel sea against my judgement"

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I can say that the Rod gets to sit tight Because of ...........................................

 

IT's TOO WINDY :o:o:o:o

 

This would seem to indicate that he knows how unsound his vessel is.

 

He?

 

I think the Loch Lomond Marina management knows a disaster in the making when they see one. And a PR nightmare.

 

There is no way they want to read in the paper or watch on the news as a water-logged HotRod, freshly plucked from a mid-bay rescue, tells the reporter, "We didn't want to leave, but the marina MADE us leave in those unsafe storm conditions."

 

Another one straight out of the George McKay playbook. " Oooh, you can't force me to go to sea, I have to find new crew." When he is told that he can go anywhere he wants, as long as he leaves the private property he is attempting to squat on, its; "I was forced out into the cruel sea against my judgement"

 

 

Thus -_-

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If you do a Google image search on RawFaith, guess which catamaran shows up on the page as you scroll down?

 

Though several images of a catamaran show up on that search, it's all the same boat.

 

Yes, sir. derp.png

 

Bit of mis-direction... How did you find that? Most images are of this boat:

 

shapeimage_2.png

 

The catamaran is there only because it was mentioned in a Wooden Boat forum: Could this be Raw Faith II?

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Red Viking - question for you? C&C 39 is indeed one of the all time bests, IMHO, but are Bendy Toys really that bad? I have not really checked one out in depth, only done a couple short deliveries as mate on a new 36 between boat shows. Not really my cuppa, but on the surface seemed to have decent build quality? Agree with you heartily about the Hunters and Irwins!!

HR's build isn't much worse than that of a BendyToy, hence the nickname. I'm glad we agree on the others and I will admit to driving a BendyToy as well as a Jeanneau, and even a Catalina in my illustrious seafaring career. I always thought those boats should come with bumper stickers that said, "I'd rather be driving my Pacific Seacraft."

Slagging Bennies and other production boats is pretty common (in the British sense of the word) but you set a new standard of bullshit nonsense with that comment.

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If you do a Google image search on RawFaith, guess which catamaran shows up on the page as you scroll down?

 

Though several images of a catamaran show up on that search, it's all the same boat.

 

Yes, sir. derp.png

 

Most images are of this boat:

 

[ RawFaith ]

 

The catamaran is there only because it was mentioned in a Wooden Boat forum: Could this be Raw Faith II?

 

There's no fooling you!

hurr-durr_74px.png

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If you do a Google image search on RawFaith, guess which catamaran shows up on the page as you scroll down?

 

Though several images of a catamaran show up on that search, it's all the same boat.

 

Yes, sir. derp.png

Bit of mis-direction... How did you find that? Most images are of this boat:

 

shapeimage_2.png

 

The catamaran is there only because it was mentioned in a Wooden Boat forum: Could this be Raw Faith II?

 

 

Whats it rate?

Its obviously racing if he's running with kevlar..

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Maybe you are cheering for HotRod as an Anarchist, but he's basically a clueless deadbeat who's "dream" is being paid for by other people and will be cleaned up after by other people. Maybe you're cheering because you wish you were as good as him at being a deadbeat?

 

FB- Doug

 

Can we please cool it with the personal attacks?

Unless you personally know the guy, of course, then I suppose you're able to share your opinion. But to sit back and make superior judgments about his character because his personal dream to build a boat with his son doesn't align with what you think his dreams should be is arrogant.

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

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that bow on angle beggars belief

 

 

Because the rest of the boat looks totally normal?

 

Yes, the bows are screwed up.

And the sterns.

And the rig.

And the deck hardware.

And the interior.

And the structural framing.

And the chines.

And the 3/8 CDX.

And the rudders.

And the steering cables.

...

 

This list is getting too long.

Can anyone mention ONE SINGLE PART of this boat that ISN'T screwed up?

 

 

The most boat-like part I have seen is the radar mast, which would actually look pretty normal on a powerboat. But who knows how it is actually secured.

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Maybe you are cheering for HotRod as an Anarchist, but he's basically a clueless deadbeat who's "dream" is being paid for by other people and will be cleaned up after by other people. Maybe you're cheering because you wish you were as good as him at being a deadbeat?

 

FB- Doug

 

Can we please cool it with the personal attacks?

Unless you personally know the guy, of course, then I suppose you're able to share your opinion. But to sit back and make superior judgments about his character because his personal dream to build a boat with his son doesn't align with what you think his dreams should be is arrogant.

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

 

Oh my, are we all gone so politically correct that a guy who is looking for a handout, and who is not paying his marina bill, cannot be called a "deadbeat"? What is he then, a grifter?

 

As for not liking his design or construction, that's not up to me. Although most people I know who fiddle about casually with boat design & building graduate from the concept of "a hull is just a pointy box" at about the age of 6 or 7. And the construction has held up longer than I thought it would by 3 days now, so you can slag me on that one.

 

But calling HotRod a deadbeat is just truth in labelling. Sorry.

 

FB- Doug

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How do you know he is not paying his marina bill?

Or, to rephrase, does anybody know for a fact what is (was) his arrangement with the marina?

Other than that, you can call him whatever you want, it does not matter really. That thingy (Yacht?!!) is still afloat, and he build it! I do not want to repeat what everybody said about the design and building methods. On that topic I am the least qualified, I just do some sailing and little of boat work on my own boat.

However, quite a lot of highly successful people (and widely admired and respected) made and are getting away with paying only if they have to, pushing the envelops, cutting corners etc. Hell, there are so many ways do describe what is basically, wrong way to do it.

Builders use inferior materials, doctors charge for unnecessary procedures, athletes usingsome "pharma products" that give them an edge over the competition...

The list is endless. Ethics, integrity, fair opportunity, even bills paid - sounds nice, but rarely happening (if you can get away with it). Lets give this guy a break and concentrate on the topic of that "yacht" being afloat, or, maybe, even sailing somewhere, like, anywhere.

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So let me get this straight - HotRod has to wait for the wind to die before getting this thing dragged away. Weren't we all waiting last week for a high spring tide so he could get this thing hauled away?

 

So he has to wait for both a spring tide, and no wind? And the marina won't boot him until then, as they don't want the "the marina made me move my boat in manifestly unsafe conditions" argument?

 

so, he gets to squat at this marina until conditions are perfect?

 

HR is a genius!

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Maybe you are cheering for HotRod as an Anarchist, but he's basically a clueless deadbeat who's "dream" is being paid for by other people and will be cleaned up after by other people. Maybe you're cheering because you wish you were as good as him at being a deadbeat?

 

FB- Doug

 

Can we please cool it with the personal attacks?

Unless you personally know the guy, of course, then I suppose you're able to share your opinion. But to sit back and make superior judgments about his character because his personal dream to build a boat with his son doesn't align with what you think his dreams should be is arrogant.

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

+1

 

I get criticizing the design.

 

It's likely his adventure won't meet his expectations. He'll face some real problems down the road. That's for sure.

 

The rest? It says more about the speakers than it does HotRod.

 

I don't see any entertainment in cheering *for* his failure or hoping for a good show in whatever problems (of his making by the way) may befall him.

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I think the point here regarding character attacks are based on what has been reported, and uses quotes from HR directly.

Sure, it has gone a little overboard, but the engineering is so bad it's almost justified :)

 

On a related note:

 

more pics & real updates, less BS pls

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How do you know he is not paying his marina bill?

 

 

... ...quite a lot of highly successful people (and widely admired and respected) made and are getting away with paying only if they have to, pushing the envelops, cutting corners etc. Hell, there are so many ways do describe what is basically, wrong way to do it.

Builders use inferior materials, doctors charge for unnecessary procedures, athletes usingsome "pharma products" that give them an edge over the competition...

The list is endless. ...

 

I think you're mistaking "success" for "ill-gotten wealth."

 

The vast majority of people are honest. If they weren't, this complex web of interdependent action, of mutually beneficial action, that we call "society" or perhaps "civilization" would not work. After all, there are only so many policemen (matter of historical fact: there weren't any policemen until a few generations after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution).

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

+1

 

I get criticizing the design.

 

It's likely his adventure won't meet his expectations. He'll face some real problems down the road. That's for sure.

 

The rest? It says more about the speakers than it does HotRod.

 

I don't see any entertainment in cheering *for* his failure or hoping for a good show in whatever problems (of his making by the way) may befall him.

 

I called him a deadbeat because he's looking for a free ride... and a luxury ride at that, not just asking for a free lunch. It's pretty obvious he's shit all over the marina, why do you think they want him out? Because he always pays his slip rent on time?

 

Maybe you should check in with some of the other posters in this thread, who suggested that HR and his family are meth heads. Now I thought that was a bit much, perhaps you have some friends who are meth heads but you're offended by my calling this deadbeat a deadbeat.

 

Yeah I'm the bad guy all right. Tell you what, start a new thread over in "Always Talk Nicey-Nice Anarchy" and I promise not to come over and ruin it.

 

FB- Doug

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How do you know he is not paying his marina bill?

 

 

... ...quite a lot of highly successful people (and widely admired and respected) made and are getting away with paying only if they have to, pushing the envelops, cutting corners etc. Hell, there are so many ways do describe what is basically, wrong way to do it.

Builders use inferior materials, doctors charge for unnecessary procedures, athletes usingsome "pharma products" that give them an edge over the competition...

The list is endless. ...

 

I think you're mistaking "success" for "ill-gotten wealth."

 

The vast majority of people are honest. If they weren't, this complex web of interdependent action, of mutually beneficial action, that we call "society" or perhaps "civilization" would not work. After all, there are only so many policemen (matter of historical fact: there weren't any policemen until a few generations after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution).

 

 

>

 

 

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

+1

 

I get criticizing the design.

 

It's likely his adventure won't meet his expectations. He'll face some real problems down the road. That's for sure.

 

The rest? It says more about the speakers than it does HotRod.

 

I don't see any entertainment in cheering *for* his failure or hoping for a good show in whatever problems (of his making by the way) may befall him.

 

I called him a deadbeat because he's looking for a free ride... and a luxury ride at that, not just asking for a free lunch. It's pretty obvious he's shit all over the marina, why do you think they want him out? Because he always pays his slip rent on time?

 

Maybe you should check in with some of the other posters in this thread, who suggested that HR and his family are meth heads. Now I thought that was a bit much, perhaps you have some friends who are meth heads but you're offended by my calling this deadbeat a deadbeat.

 

Yeah I'm the bad guy all right. Tell you what, start a new thread over in "Always Talk Nicey-Nice Anarchy" and I promise not to come over and ruin it.

 

FB- Doug

 

 

I'm not trying to single you out, there are others. But you're missing my point altogether.

 

It's been documented and discussed that the design is going to fail. Same with the method of construction. The sail plan is under-powered, and aux power is nonexistent at this point, save for a V-twin on the back porch.

 

We all know how this is likely going to end. Hopefully it's inside the gate and without the loss of life, but his dream is going to crumble before his/our eyes, and it won't be fun to watch. For me anyways.

 

However, to pile on the guy and his family (whom you've never met) about his character, based solely on conjecture or what you read in posts by others who have never met him, or a few pictures in a thread, is cowardly and weak.

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How do you know he is not paying his marina bill?

 

 

... ...quite a lot of highly successful people (and widely admired and respected) made and are getting away with paying only if they have to, pushing the envelops, cutting corners etc. Hell, there are so many ways do describe what is basically, wrong way to do it.

Builders use inferior materials, doctors charge for unnecessary procedures, athletes usingsome "pharma products" that give them an edge over the competition...

The list is endless. ...

 

I think you're mistaking "success" for "ill-gotten wealth."

 

The vast majority of people are honest. If they weren't, this complex web of interdependent action, of mutually beneficial action, that we call "society" or perhaps "civilization" would not work. After all, there are only so many policemen (matter of historical fact: there weren't any policemen until a few generations after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution).

 

 

>>

 

 

 

There's hours of entertainment and laughs in these 31 pages, but to shit on the guy's character isn't funny - it's pretty fucking weak. From all accounts, by people who've actually spent time with him, he is a good guy. To call someone you've never met "clueless", and a "deadbeat" from behind a keyboard because you don't like his design ideas, or construction methods, or sail plan is uncalled for and cowardly.

+1

 

I get criticizing the design.

 

It's likely his adventure won't meet his expectations. He'll face some real problems down the road. That's for sure.

 

The rest? It says more about the speakers than it does HotRod.

 

I don't see any entertainment in cheering *for* his failure or hoping for a good show in whatever problems (of his making by the way) may befall him.

 

I called him a deadbeat because he's looking for a free ride... and a luxury ride at that, not just asking for a free lunch. It's pretty obvious he's shit all over the marina, why do you think they want him out? Because he always pays his slip rent on time?

 

Maybe you should check in with some of the other posters in this thread, who suggested that HR and his family are meth heads. Now I thought that was a bit much, perhaps you have some friends who are meth heads but you're offended by my calling this deadbeat a deadbeat.

 

Yeah I'm the bad guy all right. Tell you what, start a new thread over in "Always Talk Nicey-Nice Anarchy" and I promise not to come over and ruin it.

 

FB- Doug

 

 

I'm not trying to single you out, there are others. But you're missing my point altogether.

 

It's been documented and discussed that the design is going to fail. Same with the method of construction. The sail plan is under-powered, and aux power is nonexistent at this point, save for a V-twin on the back porch.

 

We all know how this is likely going to end. Hopefully it's inside the gate and without the loss of life, but his dream is going to crumble before his/our eyes, and it won't be fun to watch. For me anyways.

 

However, to pile on the guy and his family (whom you've never met) about his character, based solely on conjecture or what you read in posts by others who have never met him, or a few pictures in a thread, is cowardly and weak.

 

 

 

I very much agreed with you a couple of months ago. These chaps helped me change my mind, but any thinking person would have anyway.

 

This is really irresponsible stuff. It's, what, 10-20 tons of pollution that will be just dumped into the bay. Of course HR won't conceivably get out past the GG -- that's an unforgiving piece of water even for very well made vessels, unless he is magically able to find a dead calm day. The boat is most unlikely to sail upwind; that's a given. Problem is, the prevailing breeze is WSW'ly (locals, correct me if I err), and it almost never does anything other than that. So it's a Hobson's choice for HR: he could use the ebb to push him out of the Bay, but risks a horrendous sea state (and certain disintegration of the FH) if the prevailing breeze kicks up while he's doing so. Or, on the flood, he'd likely have a much nicer sea state, but 3+ knots of adverse current to deal with -- an insurmountable force given the limited auxilary power on board.

 

I think that the boat is without question trapped in the bay for eternity, and is a lot of pollution to ask that environment to absorb. Additionally, if other things happen like the boat gets stuck in the San Rafael Channel, he will have all but ruined boating for while for the poor blokes in that marina. The other boaters don't deserve it, the public doesn't deserve to foot the bill for the USCG rescue effort, and the environment most certainly does not deserve the wholly unnecessary pollution.

 

Simple fact is, HR could have bought a used multihull, which would not mean deforesting Oregon to keep him in 2x4s, for less than the cost of the FH, and that would have provided a safe, seaworthy way to get around in that would last a long time as well as keep one more old boat out of the dump.

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Of course HR won't conceivably get out past the GG -- that's an unforgiving piece of water even for very well made vessels, unless he is magically able to find a dead calm day. The boat is most unlikely to sail upwind; that's a given. Problem is, the prevailing breeze is WSW'ly (locals, correct me if I err), and it almost never does anything other than that. So it's a Hobson's choice for HR: he could use the ebb to push him out of the Bay, but risks a horrendous sea state (and certain disintegration of the FH) if the prevailing breeze kicks up while he's doing so. Or, on the flood, he'd likely have a much nicer sea state, but 3+ knots of adverse current to deal with -- an insurmountable force given the limited auxilary power on board.

 

 

Yep. Breeze comes straight in, and 3 knots of flood under the big orange bridge would be a slow day. He could ride the ebb out the gate in the middle of the night but it's not exactly cushy out there when the breeze comes back on. More bumpy and very sharky. And if you keep heading SW forwards Paradise, the first palm tree doesn't show up for about 2200 miles (i.e. the aforementioned free spot right next to Diamond Head)

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How do you know he is not paying his marina bill?

Or, to rephrase, does anybody know for a fact what is (was) his arrangement with the marina?

Other than that, you can call him whatever you want, it does not matter really. That thingy (Yacht?!!) is still afloat, and he build it! I do not want to repeat what everybody said about the design and building methods. On that topic I am the least qualified, I just do some sailing and little of boat work on my own boat.

However, quite a lot of highly successful people (and widely admired and respected) made and are getting away with paying only if they have to, pushing the envelops, cutting corners etc. Hell, there are so many ways do describe what is basically, wrong way to do it.

Builders use inferior materials, doctors charge for unnecessary procedures, athletes usingsome "pharma products" that give them an edge over the competition...

The list is endless. Ethics, integrity, fair opportunity, even bills paid - sounds nice, but rarely happening (if you can get away with it). Lets give this guy a break and concentrate on the topic of that "yacht" being afloat, or, maybe, even sailing somewhere, like, anywhere.

 

I don't think its a personal attack to suggest you've no idea just how poorly built this floating wreck really is. You did mention not knowing much about design or building techniques. But to defend this guy, Rod Moe, that is, and his particular version of a suicide attempt is, IMHO, nuts. If you were to go through and read all the claims he's made and been following along with the build, I think you'd see how it is some folks came to the conclusion he just doesn't seem to be playing with a full deck. As it sits per last inspection or more fairly to say per last set of pictures of the construction that thing is very very unlikely to survive past its first trip outside the harbor, and thats again IMHO being generous cause its eventually going to soak up enough water just sitting were it is that its again very likely to fall apart without the help of any wave action.

 

Then we get to those tricky little issues of dynamic stability or better yet, simple steerage, it doesn't have any. Off the top of my head I can't remember the formula for how much rudder you need per ton but its a fair bet ole Rod Moe doesn't have it, although he did somehow manage to calculate the shell weight and figure out just where not to put the bottom paint line. Somewhere in there he at least tried to use a calculator, got it wrong, but I agree it was a try. I've crunched a few numbers on this thing and even a cursory look shows his expectations, particularly in regards to power requirements, are wildly inadequate.

 

3/8 inch CDX ply on 4' ( yes thats foot ) centers on a hull of this size is, like it or not, hilariously wrong. Elements of yacht design, a book any self respecting wood be designer should have, clearly states the plank thickness for a yacht of this size at 1.875", deck planks 2", a frame spacing of 22" and stringer sections of 23". It took me longer to find my glasses and read that than it did to go look it up. The difference is Rod Moe is playing with a cat and Skene is talking mono. But its a good reference to start from and its not really all that far off the mark for a cat, OK so halve the numbers maybe but our boy Rod Moe cut those numbers by 4/5ths ( on the planking at least ) and topped it off by using a non marine grade ply,

 

In the end I see no personal attack in pointing out the pure unadulterated insanity of this mans efforts. He's going to either drown or get someone drowned, its pretty much as plain as the nose on a small elephant.

 

At some point in observing this tragedy its hard to blame people for expressing there disbelief. If that disbelief borders on a personal attack, I'm not surprised, its boiling down to, he's now endangering others, and thats whats not fair.

 

My two cents

I say condemn that thing and drag it back up on shore before some coasty gets killed trying to pluck ole Rod Moe up out of the water.

 

 

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I like seeing loonies build the impossible dream, there's something uplifting yet sad about it, much like life itself.

 

Reminds me of the old bloke who built himself a castle on a rock just off Dampier on the West Australian coast.

The first time I saw it, it looked like a kid's dream fairy castle, built of rocks and seashells and tons of concrete.

The next time I saw it, cyclone surf had removed most of it.

 

The Coast Guard needs regular real-life operations to sharpen their skills, and this one won't cost too much in fuel as it won't get very far before disintegrating.

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Speaking of un-Seaworthy builds by delusional fools, somebody really ought to have found the dolt that fabricated up the TIN-CAN and FORCE him to explain himself and all the BULLSHIT that he posited back when he was the Noble Artist/Builder - remember all the crap about "If you want to build, ask poets" or somesuch asinine statements. I mean, he gat a big ol' write up in Esquire or some other glossy magazine, WHERE THE HELL is the "REST OF THE GODDAMN STORY" ??

 

The clown should be strapped to a chair and made to account for the waste of time, money, effort and materials that were squandered on his ill-conceived, ill-informed, flight of ignorance.

 

"You claimed to be smarter than all 'the suckers' that fall for conventional wisdom, how about MANNING THE FUCK UP and admitting you were as wrong as a catalog of idiocy can be ? "

 

Hot Rod, You are Next. And for the love of God, - take that Harley off the boat before you leave the dock - so that you have something to pawn to pay for the rescue and clean up services you are about to need.

 

Why are the stupid so persistent ?

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However, to pile on the guy and his family (whom you've never met) about his character, based solely on conjecture or what you read in posts by others who have never met him, or a few pictures in a thread, is cowardly and weak.

 

Well there you go.

What I have said is not based on conjecture. It's based on observed fact, and HotRod's own statements about himself and his ideals. So I guess I'm off the hook!

 

FB- Doug

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For comparison the following is a Boat that has been floating in DAGO Bay for Years "As Is"

 

it was offered for sale @ under $10,000 and didn't move (maybe $< $5000)

 

it's like 45 - 50' PTOMA

 

Any way it's Shorter than H-R's POS

 

check out the difference in design & engineering

 

13BC04730.JPG

 

13BC04732.JPG

 

13BC04736.JPG

 

 

13BC04738.JPG

 

13BC04741.JPG

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Steerage was mentioned a few posts back but one critical issue has been overlooked by Rob and that is there are no keels or boards. Upwind ain't gonna happen. Beam reach either.

Maybe Hobie cats were among the thousands of boat designs he studied.

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Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. I've been reading SA for a long time, and this thread from the start. I was reading the CF one too but of course someone said something a bit cross and it went away, oh well. This thread is way more fun!

 

So I know there are certain protocols for new posters, but since I can't post a pic of my wife's tits (not just 'cause she'd kill me fucking dead, but they aren't real attractive these days) I thought I'd feed the appetites here. I may be a close relative of HotRod's, though clearly somewhat more evolved. I too dreamt up a plywood cat and built it. I didn't even look at 1000s of designs. Hell, I bet I only looked at 200 or so! And I wasted a SHIT-TON of money on plywood! No, I didn't use marine ply, I'm not THAT evolved. I used that crazy AC stuff with waterproof glue and few knots. I didn't know I could use CDX!

 

She's 32' LOA, 3000#, power is 9.8 Tohatsu, sleeping for 5, draws 18" w/ boards up, sails are balanced lugs in a biplane configuration.

 

Well I'll let this picture speak for me, but while we wait for ol'e HR to give us more entertainment, ya'll can have some fun at my expense.

 

IMAG1185

 

Edit: I should say we launched in September, and she's been up and down the Texas coast a couple of times and off shore when the weather was cooperative. And there's a lot more to do.

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Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. I've been reading SA for a long time, and this thread from the start. I was reading the CF one too but of course someone said something a bit cross and it went away, oh well. This thread is way more fun!

 

So I know there are certain protocols for new posters, but since I can't post a pic of my wife's tits (not just 'cause she'd kill me fucking dead, but they aren't real attractive these days) I thought I'd feed the appetites here. I may be a close relative of HotRod's, though clearly somewhat more evolved. I too dreamt up a plywood cat and built it. I didn't even look at 1000s of designs. Hell, I bet I only looked at 200 or so! And I wasted a SHIT-TON of money on plywood! No, I didn't use marine ply, I'm not THAT evolved. I used that crazy AC stuff with waterproof glue and few knots. I didn't know I could use CDX!

 

She's 32' LOA, 3000#, power is 9.8 Tohatsu, sleeping for 5, draws 18" w/ boards up, sails are balanced lugs in a biplane configuration.

 

Well I'll let this picture speak for me, but while we wait for ol'e HR to give us more entertainment, ya'll can have some fun at my expense.

 

 

 

Edit: I should say we launched in September, and she's been up and down the Texas coast a couple of times and off shore when the weather was cooperative. And there's a lot more to do.

 

There's a lot of home built ply cats out there that do just fine, and lots of plans available pretty cheap if your curious as to how they build them, or want to build one yourself. I must have about a dozen sets of prints floating around here somewhere and a couple pinned up on the wall of the shop, right beside what you'd likely wish were your wife's tits.

 

I don't think the point is that we're laughing at some one of the zillions of folks that built a boat and sailed off into the blue. The point is that this particular guy studiously ignored the generations of experience and special skills used in yacht construction and built something no self respecting hill billy would even consider putting a still into. Its not really a matter of if the 3/8 CDX will fail but when, I'm in the pool for the 25th ish midnight, this month, which gives it roughly 25 days to soak, swell and split its seams.

 

That AC marine of which you speak is actually pretty good stuff except for the splitting issues which can be addressed by an adequate layer of fiberglass over it. Actually Kevlar would work better cause its so flexible and might end up cheaper than fiberglass which might require several layers and a lot more resin. I've got some of it I'm testing now to determine if its suitable for a build I'm working on. I've got three sets of samples, one soaking for months with zero delamination, another set alternating between being soaks and baking in the sun, and another set just baking in the summer sun, which around here is quite the test of any raw ply. None of it has gone south on my yet in the six months or so I've been at it. Pretty sure its adequate for the job I've got for it. Had I tested 3/8 CDX in the same way, I'm betting it would delaminate within a month, which is why I predicted Rod Moe's end at right about 25 days in the drink. Course no one could have predicted the club would let him hang for a month while he fiddles with it, but I don't think it will matter much other than it might take a bit longer without wave action working those seams.

 

Its not abuse at any ones expense, its just the cold hard facts from someone who works wood for a living and actually does a fair bit of materials testing to boot. Its comedy at its finest, real life comedy that you'd never expect, and then, boom some joker is actually going to leap off a tall ladder, into a glass of water, with a camera rigged to go off when he hits. Course in this case someone forgot to set the camera apparently.

 

which brings us to a very important point. In materials engineering films of design and structural failures are invaluable. What we need on this is a simple security camera rigged to track this thing, its really not that expensive and the film might just be salable or at least worthy of some advertising in some way or another. Someone in the area might think of looking into it or maybe the harbor has security camera's already and they're thinkin the same thing. Either way it'd be worth getting some shots of the inevitable.

 

oh well, your cat looks like it works for you and thats what really counts, I'd be curious to see some of the construction details if you've got more picts, but somehow I'm betting you might have deviated from the Rod Moe school of wood butchery and actually used things like, box beam cross members that actually "go" across the hulls. Bulk head framing under stringers of the correct cross section and a correct thickness of that AC marine dougy ply that is actually pretty cheap if you buy by the bunk. Done right a ply cat is well within reach of any even just reasonably skilled builder. About the only part that seems to scare newbies is scarfing the joints properly or maybe carving up the chines but all in all a ply cat is pretty simple. You'd think it was kinda hard to screw up but then again, world, meet "the Rod Moe"

 

Its like watching the Road Runner VS Wiley Coyote but in real life.

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Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. ... ..somewhat more evolved. I too dreamt up a plywood cat and built it.

.... ... ...

 

Edit: I should say we launched in September, and she's been up and down the Texas coast a couple of times and off shore when the weather was cooperative. And there's a lot more to do.

 

Clearly you fell into the trap of thinking too conventionally, and used traditional curved surfaces for your boat's hulls. One of the benefits of CDX is that it allows much more unrestricted hull design with nice big flat surfaces (to park your Harley).

 

I like the balanced-lug rig. Good job on your boat, have you done the Texas 200?

 

Oh and check the "Dux Jib Tracks" thread, you can use your neighbor's wife's or perhaps grandkid's teacher's tits. Your status here will be assured much more quickly... for example, I've struggled years here and still can't tell people to fuck off.

 

FB- Doug

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Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. I've been reading SA for a long time, and this thread from the start. I was reading the CF one too but of course someone said something a bit cross and it went away, oh well. This thread is way more fun!

A bunch of us have moved over here from the "Disneyland for Cruisers" site for that very reason.

I'm not a big fan of all those mommy moderators.

Steve

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That AC marine of which you speak is actually pretty good stuff except for the splitting issues which can be addressed by an adequate layer of fiberglass over it.

 

Does marine grade ply absorb epoxy? I'm of the WEST System school of boat construction ("Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique") that depends on sealing every inch of wood in what amounts to waterproof plastic.

 

I've helped build 8'(?) X 40' long curved panels that consist of 3/8" ply (_not_ marine grade!) sandwiched between 1/8" door skins, all scarfed and vacuum bagged over a mold and coated both sides with fiberglass (and more epoxy and polyurethane marine paint). The ability of the wood to absorb epoxy is quite important, and when properly sealed, water will never touch the core so marine grade ply would be no help at all.

 

Scarfing the ply and door skins was accomplished by stacking 4' square panels at a 10:1 or 12:1 slope and running a hand planer across the "steps", creating a ramp of nicely matching scarfs:

 

scarfing_plywood.png

 

Door skin joints were offset from the plywood core joints (of course). Four of these huge panels made a pair of catamaran hulls. The method was a cross between Kurt Hughes cylinder molding and Brown/Marples Constant Camber.

 

As everyone here already knows, they key is to never let the wood get wet!

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The "saturation" in WEST is a bit of a misnomer. The wood will absorb a slight amount of resin but it's VERY slight. It would be better termed Wood Epoxy SEALING Technique.

 

If you doubt this, make up a test lamination and cut it apart.

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The "saturation" in WEST is a bit of a misnomer. The wood will absorb a slight amount of resin but it's VERY slight. It would be better termed Wood Epoxy SEALING Technique.

 

If you doubt this, make up a test lamination and cut it apart.

 

Of course! But the deeper it penetrates, the better (especially with end grain). The first coat is the most important ("thin" and plentiful) because it seals the surface; anything after that is just epoxy on epoxy.

 

 

and when properly sealed, water will never touch the core so marine grade ply would be no help at all.

As sold in the US "marine grade" ply has much tighter specifications for voids (<1/8") and knots/knotholes and multiple thin plys. CDX plywood allows some large voids (1") and thick veneers.

 

The marine grade ply I'm thinking of is slightly green because it's saturated with some kind of chemical, so I would not expect it to absorb epoxy well? But that's probably not what you have in mind?

 

According to the American Plywood Association (APA):

 

Marine-grade plywood is not treated with any chemicals to enhance its resistance to decay. If decay is a concern, it should be pressure-preservative treated to an appropriate standard.

 

Or coated with epoxy!

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I've seen a lot of problems with Douglas fir over the years but its ability to absorb sealants isn't one of them. White Oak on the other hand needs some prep before it can be epoxied with confidence but not Douglas fir. One trick you might try that might help get that epoxy in deeper is to heat the material so that as it cools micro-pockets of air "pull" the also heated epoxy into the material. If you run a few samples against a few control samples I'm confident you'll notice a difference. I'd have to go look up just how much to heat the material as well as the resin but I think its about 100° F and then allow it to cool gradually overnight. There was a guy who made canoes out of old growth poplar a long time ago right about the time Epoxy became popular and he impregnated his material this way and apparently it worked great. Poplar isn't generally considered a boat wood due to its poor rot resistance but Douglas fir's rot resistance isn't much better, so yes, anytime your using ply in hull construction your far far better off drenching the stuff in epoxy, Ecopoxy preferably as its not nearly as toxic. Three coats minimum. Also with Douglas fir ply there is a significant checking problem which must be addressed by also encasing the material in fiberglass or some other sufficiently flexible fabric coating.

As to using non marine grade ply in boat construction, I'd highly recommend against it. No matter how careful you might think you are eventually that core is going to get wet and when it does you don't want it falling apart at just the wrong moment. These are boats we're talking about, your about to steak your life on it by taking yourself and loved ones miles from shore. Another way to look at it is whats the cost difference when compared to the overall cost of the build, something like 5% maybe. Spring for some real plywood.

Marine ply has a lot going for it, its glued with a type 1 glue, its pressed with higher PSI during manufacture and its allowable voids as someone mentioned are significantly less than for non marine ply, in a nut shell its far superior in just about all regards. Oh and it holds glue just fine.

My two cents.
Cheers
B

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Boston...you took me way too serious!!!! I'm The WORST guy making fun of HR!!!! He's freaking AWESOME as a go-to guy for jokes!

 

 

 

 

Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. ... ..somewhat more evolved. I too dreamt up a plywood cat and built it.

.... ... ...

 

Edit: I should say we launched in September, and she's been up and down the Texas coast a couple of times and off shore when the weather was cooperative. And there's a lot more to do.

 

 

 

Another Newb that signed up just for this thread. ... ..somewhat more evolved. I too dreamt up a plywood cat and built it.

.... ... ...

 

Edit: I should say we launched in September, and she's been up and down the Texas coast a couple of times and off shore when the weather was cooperative. And there's a lot more to do.

 

Clearly you fell into the trap of thinking too conventionally, and used traditional curved surfaces for your boat's hulls. One of the benefits of CDX is that it allows much more unrestricted hull design with nice big flat surfaces (to park your Harley).

 

I like the balanced-lug rig. Good job on your boat, have you done the Texas 200?

 

Oh and check the "Dux Jib Tracks" thread, you can use your neighbor's wife's or perhaps grandkid's teacher's tits. Your status here will be assured much more quickly... for example, I've struggled years here and still can't tell people to fuck off.

 

FB- Doug

Thanks Doug....I am glad you saw my attempt at sarcasm. After reading Boston's reply book I was afraid I came off serious! The truth is I thought MY design was so off-the-wall, I would have expected this type of thread about me. Little did I know I had no worries, what with Raw Faith and Flyin' Hawaiian out there running interference!

 

 

Yeah I've done all the Texas 200's, except this year I met them at army hole instead of doing the whole thing. That way there were coolers of cold beer and a hotdog roast, and I got to sleep in my comfy bed!

 

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO where's the UDATES Damnit????????

 

 

I lived in Marin County (Novato) and they raised hell about a Target store opening (I bet they still don't a Wal-Mart!), I'm stunned they let this happen! ;-)

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Does marine grade ply absorb epoxy? I'm of the WEST System school of boat construction ("Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique") that depends on sealing every inch of wood in what amounts to waterproof plastic.

...

 

 

Hot Rod's boat is sealed with a thin skin of glass and West epoxy, unless he missed a spot.

 

I downloaded and read some tests by the Gougeon group a while back, and they found that their epoxy is pretty water resistant. It's more water resistant with the barrier coat additive. Even more water resistant than epoxy barrier coat was... drumroll please... wax. And even wax doesn't stop water. None are waterproof. So given enough time, even if HR did not miss a spot, his plywood will be wet.

 

But I doubt he will be given enough time. The deck is pinned to the sides of the hulls with lag bolts. I think he will learn why those beams should extend all the way to the outsides of the hulls as soon as the boat encounters waves.

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Most modern production cats don't have actual beams going from hull to hull. The entire structure is more of a moncoque construction like modern cars. In fact some of the new Lagoon models mount the mast on the salon roof with no support underneath it. The difference from the FH is that these boats are engineered that way. Occasionally customs and one-offs will use beams mainly because it easily solves some technical issues. These are pics from a 2002 Pinta 65' cat in the Carib. She was built in France so we could say she's seaworthy. These beams are what HR should have on his boat.

 

 

post-99161-0-20593600-1371989738_thumb.jpg

post-99161-0-39607100-1371989754_thumb.jpg

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Does marine grade ply absorb epoxy? I'm of the WEST System school of boat construction ("Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique") that depends on sealing every inch of wood in what amounts to waterproof plastic.

...

Hot Rod's boat is sealed with a thin skin of glass and West epoxy, unless he missed a spot.

 

Inside and out? All edges?

 

I downloaded and read some tests by the Gougeon group a while back, and they found that their epoxy is pretty water resistant. It's more water resistant with the barrier coat additive. Even more water resistant than epoxy barrier coat was... drumroll please... wax. And even wax doesn't stop water. None are waterproof. So given enough time, even if HR did not miss a spot, his plywood will be wet.

 

I've never heard of water penetration through old age on well built WEST system boats? Unless the epoxy barrier is broken down by physical damage or long term exposure to sunlight (unpainted).

 

Just to clarify my earlier question about marine grade plywood's ability to absorb epoxy, I was thinking of the green pressure treated stuff, not the untreated "good stuff".

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Does marine grade ply absorb epoxy? I'm of the WEST System school of boat construction ("Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique") that depends on sealing every inch of wood in what amounts to waterproof plastic.

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Hot Rod's boat is sealed with a thin skin of glass and West epoxy, unless he missed a spot.

 

Inside and out? All edges?

 

>>I downloaded and read some tests by the Gougeon group a while back, and they found that their epoxy is pretty water resistant. It's more water resistant with the barrier coat additive. Even more water resistant than epoxy barrier coat was... drumroll please... wax. And even wax doesn't stop water. None are waterproof. So given enough time, even if HR did not miss a spot, his plywood will be wet.

 

I've never heard of water penetration through old age on well built WEST system boats? Unless the epoxy barrier is broken down by physical damage or long term exposure to sunlight (unpainted).

 

Just to clarify my earlier question about marine grade plywood's ability to absorb epoxy, I was thinking of the green pressure treated stuff, not the untreated "good stuff".

 

 

 

Is pressure treated ply ever marine rated? Usually It is mostly standard CDX that has been treated after manufacturing. Most PT stuff is treated, banded and shipped very wet from the treatment process and I have noticed that the ply is really crappy and delaminating here and there which may be from the moisture or chemicals or both. The really good and expensive stuff is Kiln Dried After Treatment and will have a KDAT stamp. I think this is all special order.

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I had to rebuild a old ac cooling tower years ago. It was redwood - way to expensive to rebuild we just used flat yellow pine boards. We soaked the end grain is super thin epoxy and worked our way up to uh-thinned. It worked very well, for something that was always wet. Over time water did pass through. As with all coatings it is hardly a problem with a flat surface. It's ths corners that will kill you. They will fail. You have to constantly look out for it. I love the old tri's from Jim Brown and John Marples, I just don't know if I would have the disposition for them, even though they have proved the test of time with a suit load of the mall over the world. When I was a kid I used to be deep into small craft journal and national fisherman - back then you could not mention glass over wood with out mentioning the name Alan Vaitses. Has his technique fallen out of favor?

I just realized Alan was into planked boats not ply boats. My bad.

Still love these old school cats - I only hope that I am one tenth as cool as this old fucker when I'm in my mid 70's

 

Yet it still blows my mid that THIS can be done by one person - when I see the spray coming off the amas at that speed, it freaks me out that it is even possible it can be done - While mortals are slagging along at 8/9 knots. Damn...

 


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I've never heard of water penetration through old age on well built WEST system boats? Unless the epoxy barrier is broken down by physical damage or long term exposure to sunlight (unpainted).

 

Just to clarify my earlier question about marine grade plywood's ability to absorb epoxy, I was thinking of the green pressure treated stuff, not the untreated "good stuff".

 

Surprisingly enough epoxy is not entirely water proof. I think you get about 97% protection with three good coats or something like that, I'd have to go look it up. But some vapor will penetrate, although I'm not sure it doesn't take a little help from a f