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I have no dog in this fight, but here is Bottman suggesting something very cool (shadow an iconic race in a cool trimaran). Perhaps the word “rent” triggered negative reactions, which is unfortunate. I’d call it “looking for partners for a joint project to shadow sail a race, with all parties expected to contribute”

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It's funny to look back at comments from 7 years ago.......... I bought it, wrecked it, rebuilt it and ready for round two

No, Ave looks great, sails great, and the people on her were lovely when they were over here. Bottman, please put your energy into your reno so we can celebrate your success one day in a positive

The old girl XL2 was relaunched this morning after repair / rebuild / and upgrades Thanks to all that helped after the capsize and then the journey upside down to Bermagui before being written of

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Bottman,

I think you misunderstand the word survey for the purposes of renting/chartering Bullfrog.  Sure you had a survey done but that does not mean it is IN survey for the charter.  Eg specific lifeline requirements (there is a long list).

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:32 PM, Bottman said:

I hope to rent her to disabled sailors.

I have no beef whatever Bottman wants to do with his boat. But he made this comment when explaining why he was keeping the old pinhead sails. Not specifically about sharing expenses for a cruise to Hobart.  In the context of a question about the availability of insurance, renting was mentioned as a factor. Crew throwing in towards costs is a completely different concept, and most appropriate. If he was able to get insurance for an old trimaran to be rented to disabled sailors, a lot of trimaran owners would be interested.

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I feel like there's been a few misunderstandings of terminology in this discussion. Renting a boat out, or renting out spaces on it, requires it to be registered as a commercial vessel if I'm not mistaken, which is commonly referred to as it being "in survey". This is different, and more stringent, than having passed a regular, private pre-sale or pre-insurance survey. First of all the boat has to have been "built to survey" as it's normally called, so there are requirements on materials, thicknesses and strengths etc. Second of all there are requirements on the safety equipment on board.

That being said, if the boat isn't rented out but you're simply taking paying crew instead, it's up to the paying crew to determine if the condition and equipment of the boat satisfies their demands or requirements for sailing in the Roaring Forties and below.

I don't think you're allowed to actually make money off such an effort, legally speaking. If you do it becomes a commercial venture and the entire legal relationship changes, and the boat needs to be surveyed and insured for commercial operations. I think the most you can ask is that each crew member pay "their share" of the cost of the trip.

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So Tony, do you currently have insurance? If so, does it cover the proposed "cruise" or does it need to be extended somehow? My recent but old catamaran insurance allowed me to be 200 nm offshore which would easily cover a cruise to Hobart from Sydney (and the delivery to Sydney from Brisvegas).

I am not clear as to whether you are coming on the cruise or just the return.

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Tony, you are targeting the wrong person. Jason would mean you no wrong and would be very supportive of anyone with a trimaran of your heritage. Get her sailing and visible, the world needs the boat back in the limelight. Best wishes for the future.

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1
BEAU GESTE
2047
Kark Kwok
15:00:37
05:00:37
2
APACHE
7585
Erle Williams
17:17:20
07:17:20
3
CATION
9552
Owen Rutter
17:42:49
07:42:49
4
KOTUKU
9600
Peter Geary
17:49:54
07:49:54
5
ROMANZA
101010
Dougall Love
17:59:17
07:59:17
6
AVE GITANA
7669
Antonio Pasquale
18:44:20
08:44:20
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Place Sail No Boat Name Skipper Design Fin Tim Elapsd AHC Cor'd T From
1 9552 CATION Owen Rutter Roger Hill 18.5m 17:42:49 07:42:49 1.152 08:53:10 RAYC
2 7637 LUCIFER Ed Ayre Open 8.5 18:59:58 08:59:58 0.998 08:58:53 NZMYC
3 7593 ATTITUDE Andrew Johnson Open 8.5 - Jt 19:06:04 09:06:04 1.037 09:26:16 NZMYC
4 9600 KOTUKU Peter Geary Roger Hill 17:49:54 07:49:54 1.208 09:27:38 NZMYC
5 7235 FREEDOM Phil And Coen Clark Ursem Open 8.5 - Gbe 19:52:56 09:52:56 0.977 09:39:18 NZMYC
6 2047 BEAU GESTE Kark Kwok Vplp Mod 70 15:00:37 05:00:37 1.950 09:46:12 WBC/HKYC
7 101010 ROMANZA Dougall Love Rapido 60 17:59:17 07:59:17 1.232 09:50:29 RNZYS
8 7585 APACHE Erle Williams Murray Ross 17:17:20 07:17:20 1.367 09:57:50 RBC
9 7590 EPSOM SALTS Carey Shelley Open 8.5 - Jt 20:23:00 10:23:00 1.030 10:41:41 NZMYC
10 7473 AWEFULL Don Cameron Farrier 23:26:17 13:26:17 0.829 11:08:24 NZMYC
11 7669 AVE GITANA Antonio Pasquale Crowther 40 18:44:20 08:44:20 1.275 11:08:32 RBC
12 7558 EXODUS Ed Crook Ron Given 10m Sports 20:33:33 10:33:33 1.141 12:02:53 WBC
13 9712 CARTE BLANCHE 11 Winton Jones Nautitech 40 Open C 01:02:46:54 16:46:54 0.722 12:06:59 RNZYS
DNF 7536 WHITE KNIGHT Damian Blake Modified Great Barri     0.849   NZMYC
DNF 9738 ELINA David Tiller Schioning 11mt     0.697   SSANZ
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Bottman,

Please read the many posts about survey in this thread.

If you want to charter/rent/whatever it is you want to do then Bullfrog needs to be IN SURVEY. That does not mean that you have had her surveyed (any fool can do that) rather it means you have to comply with an whole lot of regulations including as to how the boat was built and whether that complies with the requirements to be IN SURVEY. It is all very well that a surveyor says your boat is in good nick but that is not the test.  Exactly what lifelines are on the boat. How are the stanchions fixed etc etc are some of the many many regulations you must meet.

Instead of being so defensive and misquoting anyone that doesn't seem to you to be not absolutely blindly lapping up all you say try reading the posts carefully and you will see that most people think what you are trying to do with the boat (not the rental) are supportive.

You clearly have no idea who is who so give up your childish detective work and focus. Stop trying to defend by attacking, you are truly hopeless at it. 

Just waiting for your attack on me. Water off a duck's back.

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On 10/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

Bottman you have lost the Plottman

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On 10/26/2019 at 9:25 PM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

I have no dog in this fight.... Now I'm getting implicated in this evil plot to buy your boat ....?  YOU HAVE THE WRONG GUY... I'm fairly certain I'm the only PIL here but I have a boat and a ship load of my own issues with my boat (XL2)...

BTW... for the record, I think you got the Jason thing completely wrong as well.... 

I wish you well with your boat ......

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On 10/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

Are you feeling a little bitter and twisted cupcake??  :lol:

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20 minutes ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Just checked that footage ..... They don't appear to use much mast rotation ... thoughts...?

We often limit mast rotation when a bit over powered on the Gnome. Could be the same theory here. 

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It seems like Trispirit hasnt visit this site after he posted that on 19 Oct....   Maybe it was said in a light joking tone - but I can see why Bottman got offended of that post given the circumstances.

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Bottman I think your original offer was a kind one, similar to what Multihuller offers with his wonderful Golden Oldies R2AK offers. I also think you are seeing malice where none was intended. It’s already been pointed out to you that charter/renting involves a special type of inspection and insurance. This is a separate and more bureaucratic inspection than your marine survey. In the US it’s called a COI and the boat almost needs to be purpose built to pass. Crashboxes/stability test/fire suppression,really tall lifelines. I’m involved in getting an old monohull through it and it’s quite a task, then you also have to find a company willing to insure it. Now to be fair a COI is for taking groups larger than 6 for pay so it’s not apples to apples but you get the point.I’m not up on the process in Australia but I imagine there are several charter boat captains who could get you up to speed within earshot of your mooring. Spirit is only used part of the year and I imagine they have looked into what it would take to try and get some revenue out of her when they are doing other work. Lighten up a bit mate.

And again thanks for the kind offer, I’d love to rent Bullfrog someday, and if shit happens as it can/does on a boat even with a skilled crew I’d hope you’d be covered.

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10 hours ago, SeaGul said:

It seems like Trispirit hasnt visit this site after he posted that on 19 Oct....   Maybe it was said in a light joking tone - but I can see why Bottman got offended of that post given the circumstances.

Really....You can't know what's on Bottmans mind.............Jason will know this is going on and like the rest of us, he just won't unleash his actual thoughts out of respect for humans in general and not wanting to start a shit fight ... which has now already started because Bottman has taken offence to an Anarchy post that meant no offence..... 

I say we all ignore it and put this thread back on the rails.

RIP Bullfrog.... you were loved by all.....

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14 hours ago, Bottman said:

Cupcake here MAD. who is going to buy your boats if you set up your industry as a closed shop where you attempt to cut down anyone who attempts to enter the fold. . Jason said 'Hey bottom before making a suggestion like this I,d see if you can get insurance first.I think that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bullfrog in her current state will pass survey."Point here is she passed a Geoff Cruze survey in 2017. Jason asked me ,as an admirerer of Bullfrog from his younger years if he could take a video of her in her present stete? No mention of using a video to run her down,was there Jason Gard? What was your agenda Jason? I take Jasons reference to me as :BOTTOM as a complete discrimination on my racial background and his attempt to discriminate against me because of my head injury and resultant mental incapacity,is that so Jason Gard?Are you into discrimination of mentally impared people Jason Gard?Bottman

The Video is self explanatory. 

Has the boat been offshore since you started work on it? 

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What the heck is with all the angry Australians?  Threads everywhere with them shitting each others beds.  Was the winter that bad or something??

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33 minutes ago, Wess said:

What the heck is with all the angry Australians?  Threads everywhere with them shitting each others beds.  Was the winter that bad or something??

I only see one angry bloke, everyone else has been pretty restrained. Especially by Anarchy standards

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Go check out the Australian sailing thread in SA.  Few others there as well.  And the Beachball or whatever it it was called thread here.  Another two or three in Ocean Racing Anarchy. I got no dog in any of those fights just wondering what got em all so riled up down there.  Its sailing.  Supposed to be fun, no!?!

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L. Crowther .  unless its been modded

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Go check out the Australian sailing thread in SA.  Few others there as well.  And the Beachball or whatever it it was called thread here.  Another two or three in Ocean Racing Anarchy. I got no dog in any of those fights just wondering what got em all so riled up down there.  Its sailing.  Supposed to be fun, no!?!

...a teory here - what is the national sport in AUS?  - sailing!  - so thats why they take it so very serious...and bec they have lost the world-lead to NZ they are abit itchy on it...       

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4 hours ago, SeaGul said:

...a teory here - what is the national sport in AUS?  - sailing!  - so thats why they take it so very serious...and bec they have lost the world-lead to NZ they are abit itchy on it...       

That’s funny. Sailing is a minor sport in Australia. 
The last few A/C’s have been won by Australians running the show on the water and Australia just won the SailGP. 
And NZ just got beaten in the RWC semifinals. Life’s good. 

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Wow, Ave Gitana looks absolutely killer! Glad to see her being so well cared for.

That 55' Murray Ross design looks awesome as well, especially with the matching hulls and sails. Couldn't find any info on it, anyone know a good phrase to google?

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9 hours ago, Keith said:

L. Crowther .  unless its been modded

Yep, Crowther, only slightly modified. Basically a sistership to Balina/Bullfrog (etc etc). Raced hard, far and wide. Loved. Maintained.

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13 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

No older Aus multis there (didn't see Ave)... is BJ older now?!

... but OH FUCK YEAH!

Loved the save by the little GBE(?) @~  3.50

2:40 or so, lower left, black sails? Looks like it got wet when she nosed in, but they slacked sheets and then pulled them right back in... fun to watch!

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Coen Ursem That was five minutes in from the start. Good thing we had the sheets in our hands and released everything. Nice pic, who took it?

   It was gusting 38knots

This is a Multihull 8.5 meter Class ..with a mix of mainly Cats and Tris

 

10960273_10152742146007462_1919497900615107353_o.jpg

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Just realised that my comment above is supposed to be about the nose dive from the Video...and replying to the type of boat.  The image above is a retrospective of the class, 

only two 8.5s started the classic....the red tri and the nosedive cat .    Sorry to not be clear .  

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17 hours ago, randii said:

2:40 or so, lower left, black sails? Looks like it got wet when she nosed in, but they slacked sheets and then pulled them right back in... fun to watch!

Yeah, I wasn't even drunk and was looking at the wrong number! 

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A shakedown cruise to Lord Howe would prove the effectiveness & quality of your restoration Bottman. Would also prove its seaworthiness for resale. Geoff Cruse certified it was good to go what’s stopping you leaving this week? 

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8 hours ago, Bottman said:

"Hey Bottom before making a suggestion like this I'd first see if you can get insurance. I think you'd find that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bull Frog in her current stste will pass survey". So Jason Most ofnus would believe Geoff Cruse before listening to you, after all he is a registered Boat vSurveyor and what are you? Troublemaker in the old language, or a troll in modern language? I have updated  my restoration and minor modifications and improvements to Bullfrog for the information and help for all who like to improve the safety and comfort of their boats. WHATS YOUR AGENDA? "PERSONALLY I WOULDNT USE THIS GUY TO MOVE ANY OF MY BOATS "AS ONE FRIEND SAID RECENTLY. Do you actuslly have a boat licence Jason? What do you think your opinion is worth next to Geoff Cruse? Bottman

I am a professional ship wright and surveyor,  I also had professional relationship with Jason on his refit . At the time I designed and built some carbonfibre parts for him .I always found Jason to be of the upmost integrity and a very good understanding of the job ,boat and its structural application .

I have not seen Jason get into this abuse as that is not his style .But Bottman just keep pulling down someone that is just trying to inform him of his own experiences  .I can vouch for my experience on Jasons integrity but from what is written I can't say much for this block .

Just my 2 cents integrity bets attacking words .

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Bottman, get a grip. Read what people have said and understand that you are a million miles away from your restoration being complete and IN SURVEY.  Have a look at the photos above in this thread of your NZ sistership.  Are you at that level of completion of your project? If not then get on with it and then GO SAILING.

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1 hour ago, Bottman said:

Its four years post assault, not able to work as a registered nurse, have my car licence back, still trying to come to terms with my hands and feet not doing what they are told, recently able to do long division etc, etc. So when some person comes along with the suggestion that my boat is not worthy of anything, let alone sailing long ocean voyages, and then stating this, internationally, despite a survey report, by one of Australias most capable multihull marine surveyors then I get a little concerned about that someone making derogatory remarks about my boat.  I did try sailing and ended up on Bribie Island after a few equipment failures. Recently discovered the cause of the anchor not deploying. The anchor chain goes through the deck through a 75mm conduit. this had worn through at the exit point and effected a chain stopper. Had pulled the anchor winch apart twice, over a few months, before discovering the reason it malfunctioned. The strange and distant memory of Bullfrog being mine kept me from giving up. A strange, frightening, place to wake up in hospital locked in because of absconding and being retrieved by police and ambos. I was dressed in hospital attire and fortunately/unfortunately caught a cab from the hospital back to Montys Boatyard and convinced the Iranian driver I was simply doing whatever. He notifiedthe Police, thanks Iranian driver. Once again I ask Jason what his agenda is?. Or was he just being a troll?He expressed interest in Bullfrog especially in the space inside of her with the wing berths. I couldn't recognise friends and family when in hospital. Have some of my memory back and can now do some of my previous .skills, to some extent. So whats your aganda Jerkson? Bottman

I want to feel sorry for you, but you’re acting like an asshole. You really should get away from the keyboard for awhile and just go enjoy your boat. 

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On 10/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, huey 2 said:

 

2 minutes ago, Bottman said:

So, when Ian FINISHED BULLFROG and she then was one of the fastest sailing vessels in the world someone asked why she was not painted, according to Ian when I spoke to him?  'Paint weighs' was his reply. So in respect of authenticity then she is partly restored with a poor paint job , isn't she?Bottman

Compare the two sisterships.  Get Bullfrog up to this standard and go sailing.

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I want to feel sorry for you, but you’re acting like an asshole. You really should get away from the keyboard for awhile and just go enjoy your boat. 

This. If he ain’t drunk or buzzed he needs to be. If he is he needs to stop. What a freaking train wreck and everybody sees it but him. Wow. Just wow. 

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I just checked in here and read the posts on Bullfrog. In January 2014 and just a couple of weeks before Bottman purchased Bullfrog i had agreed to buy it for 80k and deposited 20k on it based on the purchase going ahead subject to a "reasonable" survey. I had started my offer for it at 60k but had to go up to 80k which was more than it was worth but, hey what's 20k when it comes to old multis. I had the broker put her on the beach at Bayview in Pittwater and flew Geoff Cruse down to do a survey at the same time he was doing one on a mates Crowther 52 Cat, Two Up Together. Geoff did a full survey including a moisture test across the boat and his findings were the boat was in trouble. He marked all the areas of concern with a grey lead pencil, (which i've seen Bottman refer to in old posts) and looked at me and said Darren, you'll need to spend at least 150-200k just on stripping the boat and fixing/rebuilding the damp balsa before you even fair and finish it and then have to replace the motor, sails, fittings etc etc. The boat would have needed to be stripped and put into a shed. I live in Sydney, so that was the first problem, where to do it? As much as i love the boat as I feel I've been associated with it over its full career, i had to let it go on Geoffs professional advise. it was beyond my capabilities. Geoff's survey findings were because of new work and fittings put on the boat that leaked into the balsa. So with this now behind me, I then went to France and looked at a few options there. That was going to be all too hard and I couldn't find the right boat there at the time. Then Top Gun came onto the market, I also tried to buy her 4 years earlier, however Gavin beat me to it. I quickly sold Indian Chief and bought Top Gun and have loved every day of bringing this old racer back to being a beautiful racer/cruiser in the best condition its ever been in. After reading all this and realising Bottmans struggles, I hope Bottman passes this treasured tri onto someone that can do the full restore and bring it back to its former glory before its all too late. I'm not entering into any further debate on this topic, however i felt compelled to share my story on this amazing tri.

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On 11/1/2019 at 4:18 PM, plywoodboy said:

So are you nz sailors happy with the box rule leading to such low aspect rigs? Just a question not a judgement.

Yep We seem pretty happy with it, there are no moves to change it within the 8.5m class. 

Having  done the Coastal (and won the 8.5m class) now in Lucifer (Tri), Attitude (Cat) and Freedom (The nose diving cat in the video), the Class seems to have got the mix right to make fun, affordable, robust little boats that can still kick arse! Lucifer was 8th ton line this year out of 176 boats! Only beaten by a bunch of 50-70ft Multis, Ave Gatana (40ft Tri) and an OMCA 60 monohull!

 

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6 hours ago, Indian Chief said:

I just checked in here and read the posts on Bullfrog. In January 2014 and just a couple of weeks before Bottman purchased Bullfrog i had agreed to buy it for 80k and deposited 20k on it based on the purchase going ahead subject to a "reasonable" survey. I had started my offer for it at 60k but had to go up to 80k which was more than it was worth but, hey what's 20k when it comes to old multis. I had the broker put her on the beach at Bayview in Pittwater and flew Geoff Cruse down to do a survey at the same time he was......

Thanks a tonne for sharing those pics Darren, the shape of those hulls is pure art enhanced by a nice beaching! It made me remember why these sites (and previously discussions in the pub) often stir up a bit of angst in us. Old classic boats are just a passion for old sailors, and in multihulls we don't have too many still savable. That is why some here are trying to verbalise to the owner "Your stewardship of this boat is a gift from above, so do something with it!"

While not in the same classic league, my 1994 Ostac F31 Tribute (to Ian F) ex Party Time ex Wilparina 1  has been easier to save, and is now nearly in original condition but with a few hidden carbon upgrades to make things a little better and lighter. Finding her on the dry dock after a decade not in the water with a foot of foul black water in both floats, and the sealed bow crashbox totally full of at least 40 litres of the same goo nearly scared me away. Massive lee help on one tack and weather helm on the other added to the fun. Because mine is more easily repaired foam glass, I tip my hat to Bottman taking on the balsa project and look forward to seeing her flying again. Tony (Bottman), we are all with you in different ways, especially Jason who I have met and have high regard for.

Regards,

Peter H   

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13 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hey Monkey I say the same to Jason, he started it, with a finishing touch with an insult to my name,hows that?Bottman

I seriously don’t know why you think that was intentional. Look what autocorrect does when you start typing your username. I’m sure it was just an accident. 

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1 hour ago, Bottman said:

I don't profess to be familiar with auto correct but a quick enquiry reveals that you should type the whole word to get the corrected word.. Secondly I sign my name as Bottman, which was my nickname on Thursday Island. I cant get the computer to write what you are suggesting ,Bottm, bottom , or bottoms. That's why it could appear to some people as an intentional insult,dont you think? Whats a super anarchist moniker for? Bottman

No, I don’t agree at all. Like many people, I let auto fill complete words and occasionally miss the mistakes. 
 

I believe you’re acting like a paranoid schizophrenic. I do not mean that as an insult. It’s an observation based on you’re behavior. 

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So Darren had an unfavourable survey report from Geoff in 2014, in what year did you get this report from Geoff that says she's all good to go Bottman ?For a boat to jump from 80k to 200k I would hope for more than just a bit of balsa from Bunnings. 

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Heh Bottman. Kinda getting sick of you bashing Jason. You are making a mountain out of nothing - not even a mole hill. Sure you had a lot of bad luck. There is no agenda here from Jason and a heap of real world practical advice from many experienced multihull guys on the forum. So get on with it and finish the boat. Maybe take some advice from others that have knowledge. Stop banging on about what Cruisey said or wrote. Your original comments included renting the boat. So that's where a lot of the real world advice (facts) came from. Let go of your aggressive agenda.........just get back to the shed and finish the project. You'll likely be happier as well. BTW I notice Jason has too much integrity to get in the gutter with you. Good on him. His reputation and actions speak for him. Unfortunately yours is starting to as well for you. Still time to back off and build.

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Ok ... Now for some positive stuff...... I'll start

It appears XL2 will soon go to a shed in Sydney and and hopefully be back out sailing in 6 or so months... will let you all know more when i know 

Pic was sent to me by my local Waterways Officer.... I laughed

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8 minutes ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Ok ... Now for some positive stuff...... I'll start

It appears XL2 will soon go to a shed in Sydney and and hopefully be back out sailing in 6 or so months... will let you all know more when i know 

Pic was sent to me by my local Waterways Officer.... I laughed

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Great stuff Pil, just make sure you get up to Pittwater for the Crowther Regatta this time so we can kick your ass back to Cronulla :-)  

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Ok.  Bottman, unless you say something really really stupid I am going to lay off and hope this thread gets back on track with more interesting things like the upgrade of XL2.

Please just fix Bullfrog to the state your NZ sistership is in and go sailing.  We ALL support you in that. Get off this forum, you will only get hurt.

Leave Jason  and everyone else alone and get on with your boat or give it to someone to finally fix it.

From the lowest part of my heart (see what I avoided there), good luck.

daniel 

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4 hours ago, Indian Chief said:

Great stuff Pil, just make sure you get up to Pittwater for the Crowther Regatta this time so we can kick your ass back to Cronulla :-)  

ooooh   a slap in the face with a glove..... 

Challenge accepted ... love it

Now to source that new 25 meter mast and foils

 

 

Hey Bittman (Bottom) You are now way off topic... I love your boat and I used to enjoy your posts but you are close to being one of only two to ever make my ignore list... right behind Doug Lord

 

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33 minutes ago, Bottman said:

Information for all. The big catch is that if you call yourself a Marine Surveyor  WITHOUT APPROPRIATE qualifications you leave yourself completely at the mercy of Police and our legal system if anything goes wrong with a vessel you have signed off on as seaworthy, one would think?Cheers Bittman

If you operate a commercial vessel without a certificate of survey and a certificate of operation along with all the other regulations for commercial vessels you will have no mercy with the legal system if caught, if anything goes wrong the legal reaming would be larger.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-operators/domestic-commercial-vessels/certificates-survey

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-operators/domestic-commercial-vessels/certificates-operation

As many here have pointed out a Certificate of Survey for commercial vessels is not the same as getting a survey for a recreational boat you want to own.

 

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15 hours ago, harryproa said:

To get the conversation back to something interesting, how about Dan and Pil tell us how they managed to flip XL2?  How it was found?  How it was righted?  What, if any, damage?  What, if any, upgrades are planned?  

I will very soon... just waiting on some info from insurance...  

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Bottman,

I said I would stay away unless you said something really stupid. And now you have.

The person who marked areas on the bow (and probably other places) using a moisture meter was the same person you hold up as the greatest surveyor of all time. You are an idiot.

Take your meds, fix your boat and go sailing... or ... find someone to give it to to restore her.   PLEASE

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4 hours ago, DtM said:

Bottman,

I said I would stay away unless you said something really stupid. And now you have.

The person who marked areas on the bow (and probably other places) using a moisture meter was the same person you hold up as the greatest surveyor of all time. You are an idiot.

Take your meds, fix your boat and go sailing... or ... find someone to give it to to restore her.   PLEASE

Can I suggest that all Bottshit replies are put on the other thread. 

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Hay everyone. 

After a few years without a boat   Im back with this Weapon from Kangaroo Island. I’m currently in Harvey bay giving her a  tidy  up . She Will be in the piss  before Christmas Terrorising the sandy Straits.Before heading north at Easter to do some racing And cruising full time . Any info on the history of the boat would be great . All I know is it guy name Philip designed and built her around 1990 South Australia Kangaroo Island area she’s got a new set of rags and is a flat bottom dagger board boat . 

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On 11/7/2019 at 3:34 PM, Hangtime said:

In other news ….Paul has finally got rags on Bags and boy do they look sexy!

 

Will let Him share the details......

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Yep new Sails for Bags. I commissioned 1Sails for these and they really great sails. We are having to do a little tuning on the jib as expected but they maximise the sail area, about 66sqm for the main and 44 sqm for the jib. I now have some forestay tension issues so and looking at adding running backstays at the bolt that holds the forestay onto the mast. Also am working on the sheeting position for the jib as we are at the front of the track and still need more down force. I think the main halyard and jammer needs replacing as it is slipping plus the mast rotators also need some work. Captain Tricko put together this little video for me when we went for a test sail on the weekend. The boat in the distance is Zero. We seemed to be keeping hight against them however they were a little faster than Bags. Lots of learning to do to get the best out of her yet. 

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Anyone have any thoughts on why Trilogy has sat for so long ?

From the pics she looks in good shape from all the way up north here....

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On 11/12/2019 at 5:01 AM, Keith said:

Anyone have any thoughts on why Trilogy has sat for so long ?

From the pics she looks in good shape from all the way up north here....

Assuming there's nothing structurally wrong with her I think it's just a fairly unique boat that needs to find a fairly unique buyer. She's very wide, almost 10m long and has very limited accommodations. Top that off with the canting rig and I think the only people who could justify buying her are serious racers, and I guess they have their hands full. There's a similar one in Europe that has been for sale for a very, very long time as well. This one is non-folding with a fixed rig and and boards in the floats though: https://www.multihull.nl/multihulls/used-multihulls/79160.grainger10m/graingerTR10.buitenfotos.html

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On 11/12/2019 at 12:05 PM, Paul Bagatelle said:

Yep new Sails for Bags. I commissioned 1Sails for these and they really great sails. We are having to do a little tuning on the jib as expected but they maximise the sail area, about 66sqm for the main and 44 sqm for the jib. I now have some forestay tension issues so and looking at adding running backstays at the bolt that holds the forestay onto the mast. Also am working on the sheeting position for the jib as we are at the front of the track and still need more down force. I think the main halyard and jammer needs replacing as it is slipping plus the mast rotators also need some work. Captain Tricko put together this little video for me when we went for a test sail on the weekend. The boat in the distance is Zero. We seemed to be keeping hight against them however they were a little faster than Bags. Lots of learning to do to get the best out of her yet. 

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By the sail shape if this is up wind you need to pull on another 1.5 2 meters of main sheet .this will take out the extreme depth in the middle of the main and also give you some forestay tension . Hope this helps 

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17 hours ago, Tylo said:

Assuming there's nothing structurally wrong with her I think it's just a fairly unique boat that needs to find a fairly unique buyer. She's very wide, almost 10m long and has very limited accommodations. Top that off with the canting rig and I think the only people who could justify buying her are serious racers, and I guess they have their hands full. There's a similar one in Europe that has been for sale for a very, very long time as well. This one is non-folding with a fixed rig and and boards in the floats though: https://www.multihull.nl/multihulls/used-multihulls/79160.grainger10m/graingerTR10.buitenfotos.html

 

On 11/12/2019 at 3:01 PM, Keith said:

Anyone have any thoughts on why Trilogy has sat for so long ?

From the pics she looks in good shape from all the way up north here....

 

Great boat with nothing wrong.... I would have bought the boat had i been able to get insurance....

It actually has a great interior and surprisingly big

It could also easily be dumbed down to a manageable 2 handed weekender

Try building or buying that today.... 

 

You asked what happened to XL2... Well here is my basic report

Just to clarify the incident .... We ventured out with a forecast of no more than 20... We turned south and hoisted the masthead kite with full main (16 knots wind ) Boat speed was comfortable at 17- 20.. We sailed 8-10 miles with not a hint of nosedive. We jibed and heated a couple of degrees and maybe the breeze was now 20 ish. We surfed down a very short wave (NE wind swell) and it grabbed the front beam and stopped us dead sending the sterns up in the air.. Mike Peberdy Paul Nudd and others will have experienced this many times.
One of the issues is as you get launched forward into the cabin top, you have nothing to hang on to except the sheets in your hand and reaction is to use them to hang on where they need to be dumped so there was a delay for sure.
lessons for me.... I did not feel overpowered at all but yet I sent it over so my safety margin was clearly not enough. If I'd have had a reef and either a Frac kite or zero up instead, It would likely not have happened and boat speed would have been down but only by a little. i was way in front racing monos so there really wasn't a need for the extra speed.
It's something I need to balance. I've owned boats like this because speed is my thing. (and many others here) ...I'm just a hopeless adrenalin junkie but I've learned my lesson as i could have killed my mates in my quest for the rush

I need to also apologise to the multi community for adding weight to the idea that multi's are unsafe.  Insurance on multis is hard enough to get without more mishaps like mine.

I have bought the boat back and we are rebuilding

Thanks 

Pil

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