billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OK, I know this isn’t very professional. I also know there are some very esteemed professionals on this forum. Several years ago, I decided my retirement would be on a sailboat (actually, that’s what I had in mind in 1975 after leaving the military but I fell into my old ways, met a girl and….). Now retirement is close at hand but the boats I want are not. I looked at the catamarans in the charter fleets and figured I might as well go with a Catalina if I have to sail at those speeds. I thought about what it is I really wanted and searched the ‘net for months. Nothing. So I started drawing little sketches. Then I found SketchUp. Sorry, this isn’t very polished but here it is; Link to post Share on other sites
spidennis 0 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This boat is suppose to "fold"? Like Cat2Fold? they started out with a single stick and went to a biplane rig, had to get the weight off the the deck I'd gather. Here's a model of my design 16' folding biplane rigged beach cat.I don't think my folding system would work on a much bigger boat though. had you seen Bernd's designs? your's is symmetric and his are assymmetric ....... Link to post Share on other sites
bljones 0 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 One of the benefits you list is the possibility of shipping it in a shipping container. How do you plan to transport a 55' mast inside a 40' container? How do you plan to fit double berths in hulls less than 4' wide? Even if the hulls fit, how do you fit the bridgedeck, rudders, daggerboards, etc.? Even in a high cube, assuming you have hulls providing 6' headroom, you have less than 3' above the hulls to pack in everything else. No forward crossbeam? Are the bows disposable? Before you insult successful cat builders by disparaging their designs as bricks and slugs, you might want to get your own design ready for prime-time, because right now it ain't even smoke. Link to post Share on other sites
nyker 42 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A big folding cat? You will lose all rigidity in the beams, unless you use a heavy folding mechanisme like this one : But then you lose your weight advantage. When you are looking at demountable, there is allready a comparable design: The schionning Radical Bay 1060. Slightly smaller at 35 ft, but demountable and transportable Link to post Share on other sites
Rapscallion 0 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Post the design on Boat design forums. There are several Pro cat designers in that forum... Sketchup looks interesting. I have played with Delftship in the past, but it looks like sketchup had features that delftship doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From spidennis; This boat is suppose to "fold"? Like Cat2Fold? - Rafi's design was my inspiration. I even thought about buying C2F for a while but there were too many things I wanted in my boat. C2F is currently on a journey in Mexico and heading further south every day. The new owner is ecstatic about it. http://lifeofbri.wordpress.com/cat2fold/ they started out with a single stick and went to a biplane rig, had to get the weight off the the deck I'd gather. - It was sold with both the biplane rigging and a single, taller mast as well. My understanding is Rafi just liked the ease of sailing with the biplane. Here's a model of my design 16' folding biplane rigged beach cat.I don't think my folding system would work on a much bigger boat though. - I've seen it before! One of my earlier sketches was a lot like that. I changed to a much more substantial center beam for added strength and to deflect water. had you seen Bernd's designs? your's is symmetric and his are assymmetric ....... - Yup. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From bljones; One of the benefits you list is the possibility of shipping it in a shipping container. How do you plan to transport a 55' mast inside a 40' container? - 2-piece. How do you plan to fit double berths in hulls less than 4' wide? - I don't. The rear berths are more like a wide twin. Even if the hulls fit, how do you fit the bridgedeck, rudders, daggerboards, etc.? Even in a high cube, assuming you have hulls providing 6' headroom, you have less than 3' above the hulls to pack in everything else. - A lot goes inside the hulls. Headroom is 6'4". No forward crossbeam? Are the bows disposable? - Nope. None on Extreme 40s or AC 45s either. Before you insult successful cat builders by disparaging their designs as bricks and slugs, you might want to get your own design ready for prime-time, because right now it ain't even smoke. - No insults intended. Designers and builders are producing what the market will absorb. That has always meant catering to the charter fleets. I see some very interesting designs coming out of France and down under but many of those are one-offs. Most never see construction, unfortunately. I don't think it's insulting to want something a little different. Link to post Share on other sites
F18 Sailor 290 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Curious, define your retirement plan a little bit? Don't you want to spend your time sailing, not shipping boats in containers? AKA, why are you worried about demounting the boat, two piece masts etc.? What type of cruising do you want to do? Your cabin top isn't what I would use to cross oceans. But perhaps I have different dreams of retirement. Any reason to go cat over trimaran? Total budget for the boat? Link to post Share on other sites
Dog 666 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Very cool concept...Good luck with it. I'm a designer, it's a good thing when the critics focus on the details. Link to post Share on other sites
multihuler 212 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 the parameters are the same as a 38' Super Shockwave, a new one is over $250k. Used $100k. The weight is around 7000lbs,beam 24'easily folds,daggerboards etc Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From nyker; A big folding cat? You will lose all rigidity in the beams, unless you use a heavy folding mechanisme like this one : - I've looked at lots of those, believe it or not. Folding wings were some of the first things I looked at. I figured, pilots have to bet their lives on those systems. I also looked at things like backhoes and bulldozers. My beams should be pretty stout. I'm thinking all carbon and as many lay ups as necessary. The center beam is a full boxed in triangle and compared to the tiny aluminum tubes we see everywhere, they're massive. - Maybe this is a better representation. But then you lose your weight advantage. - Yea, can't use steel... When you are looking at demountable, there is allready a comparable design: The schionning Radical Bay 1060. Slightly smaller at 35 ft, but demountable and transportable - I've seen the Radical bay 8000 before. I really wanted something that would fold up in the water to fit into a conventional slip. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From Rapscallion Post the design on Boat design forums. There are several Pro cat designers in that forum... - I will, thanks. I posted a couple over there when I first got started with this about a year ago and they were very helpful. Sketchup looks interesting. I have played with Delftship in the past, but it looks like sketchup had features that delftship doesn't. - SketchUp is pretty easy to learn, just keep at it. It also has lots of additional features written by users so it's pretty flexible. I think the real pros like things like Delftship that are more CAD like. I'm not drawing building plans with SketchUp,just getting ideas about proportion and space. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From samc99us Curious, define your retirement plan a little bit? Don't you want to spend your time sailing, not shipping boats in containers? AKA, why are you worried about demounting the boat, two piece masts etc.? What type of cruising do you want to do? Your cabin top isn't what I would use to cross oceans. But perhaps I have different dreams of retirement. Any reason to go cat over trimaran? Total budget for the boat? - I want to spend my time sailing pleasant waters, not sitting in the duldroms or getting pounded in huge seas. I'm not so interested in circumnavigating as just cruising fun places. I would prefer to play some golf and visit with the grand kids while my boat is getting shipped to the Med, Australia, etc. My first cruise will probably be the Sea of Cortez. I live in Arizona so being able to go from Mexico to the California coast quickly would be a huge benefit. You really do not want to sail north along Baja to get to California. The boat is trailerable so I could easily cruise the Sea of Cortez for a month and be in the Bahamas in under a week from the time I hauled out in Mexico. - If I did choose to keep the boat someplace for a while, I'd keep it on its trailer on the hard. This would cost considerably less than keeping it in the water and be much kinder on her as well. - A catamaran has much more living and playing room than a tri. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From Dog Very cool concept...Good luck with it. I'm a designer, it's a good thing when the critics focus on the details. - Thanks! I don't mind the critics. I need to have cold water thrown in my face to see if this thing is viable. If there are any flaws in my idea, now is the time to vet them out and make changes, not while I'm 500 miles off shore! Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From Cakewalk the parameters are the same as a 38' Super Shockwave, a new one is over $250k. Used $100k. The weight is around 7000lbs,beam 24'easily folds,daggerboards etc - I haven't seen a "folding" Shockwave. I have seen demountable ones, though. There's one for sale in Florida somewhere. Not exactly what I have in mind, though. - Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 From Rapscallion Post the design on Boat design forums. http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/my-folding-catamaran-41857.html - Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
hobie17li 19 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 many years ago I built a Buccaneer 33 that was supposed to be demountable. i was planning to take it apart to get it out of the yard where i built it. ultimately it was easier to take down a couple of fences. Rigging the 40' mast without a crane was enough of a challenge, but i did it a couple of times , once to figure out rigging lengths, once to check them and once for launch. Unless you are a composites engineer and naval architect specializing in multis I wouldn't wing it Link to post Share on other sites
Woxbox 16 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Interesting concept. Kurt Hughes has his Cat 2 Fold, too. He doesn't attempt to create a bridgedeck saloon. I'm not sure I'm clear on what balance between comfort/carrying capacity and performance you're looking to achieve. Are you hoping to create a fold-up Gunboat? Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not sure I'm clear on what balance between comfort/carrying capacity and performance you're looking to achieve. I posted an outline here; http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/my-folding-catamaran-41857-2.html#post531532 No Gunboat. More like a modified Cat2Fold. The guy who built C2F had almost exactly the same plans for his boat as I do for this (with the possible exception of my fishing obsession). Link to post Share on other sites
PIL66 - XL2 931 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 the parameters are the same as a 38' Super Shockwave, a new one is over $250k. Used $100k. The weight is around 7000lbs,beam 24'easily folds,daggerboards etc With respect....you will not find a super shockwave for $100k S/H (new is over $400k) .......and they don't fold.......we are talking Crowther aren't we....? Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Unless you are a composites engineer and naval architect specializing in multis I wouldn't wing it Thanks, I have no intention of designing this - or building it. I'm looking for an engineer / naval architect interested in taking this on. I'm not qualified to do something like this, I'm a financial analyst, not a yacht builder... Link to post Share on other sites
dstgean 0 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Unless you are a composites engineer and naval architect specializing in multis I wouldn't wing it Thanks, I have no intention of designing this - or building it. I'm looking for an engineer / naval architect interested in taking this on. I'm not qualified to do something like this, I'm a financial analyst, not a yacht builder... Since Cat 2 fold is already designed, why don't you contact Kurt Hughes and ask him to design what you want? Dan Link to post Share on other sites
Future MOB 13 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the parameters are the same as a 38' Super Shockwave, a new one is over $250k. Used $100k. The weight is around 7000lbs,beam 24'easily folds,daggerboards etc With respect....you will not find a super shockwave for $100k S/H (new is over $400k) .......and they don't fold.......we are talking Crowther aren't we....? Maybe this one? (not mine, no interest) Link to post Share on other sites
teamvmg 105 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 demountable and folding are different things! Link to post Share on other sites
Veeger 370 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Somehow, I've never considered that a 38'er might also be a pocket cruiser, seems like a rather large, er, pocket.... Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 987 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the parameters are the same as a 38' Super Shockwave, a new one is over $250k. Used $100k. The weight is around 7000lbs,beam 24'easily folds,daggerboards etc With respect....you will not find a super shockwave for $100k S/H (new is over $400k) .......and they don't fold.......we are talking Crowther aren't we....? Maybe this one? (not mine, no interest) Classic, L.Crowther design, well proven. Link to post Share on other sites
Speng 8 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Seems reasonable. Prolly Like a a Seawind or Maine Cat but foldable is the idea? Personally I think the "fits in a standard slip" deal is overrated for the complication you bring to the boat. There are more and more cat friendly marinas and an end berth isn't so bad anyway. The transports in a container idea is interesting as well an I[ve seen monohull cruisers done like this and while they looked strange they were what their owners were looking for. You might find that considering stacking the hulls in the container either vertically or horizontally is less constraining. Don't know why your VARA rudders need to be hydraulic as I've seen them on 60ft race boats (IMOCA Open 60s) and they were just pulled up by hand. Also I doubt whether you need 2 15hp outboards, 2 9's will probably be adequate. Whether or not you decide to require folding or just demountability you should find a naval architect with multi experience who is good at structural work. Off the top of my head in the US I'd think of Jim Antrim. Posting on message boards like this will just get a lot of wankers like us chiming in. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 [speng]Seems reasonable. Prolly Like a a Seawind or Maine Cat but foldable is the idea? Pretty much along those lines. Personally I think the "fits in a standard slip" deal is overrated for the complication you bring to the boat. Beyond just folding to fit a conventional slip, it's meant to be stored on its trailer out of the water. Don't know why your VARA rudders need to be hydraulic as I've seen them on 60ft race boats (IMOCA Open 60s) and they were just pulled up by hand. Mine will be pulled up by hand as well. The steering is hydraulic. Also I doubt whether you need 2 15hp outboards, 2 9's will probably be adequate. The 15 and 20 HP Hondas produce more electric charge. I also want the extra ooomph. Whether or not you decide to require folding or just demountability you should find a naval architect with multi experience who is good at structural work. Absolutely! I have no intention of pouring a ton of money into something like this unless it's engineered by a professional. Posting on message boards like this will just get a lot of wankers like us chiming in. That's the idea! I appreciate the feedback. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
rustylaru 58 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Where are you planning to mount your out boards? I do question the utility of a folding cat at this size. Demountable would save lots of weight and money. Enough money saved perhaps to pay for a delivery skipper from time to time. Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 [rustylaru] Where are you planning to mount your out boards? In the compartment just forward of the sugar scoops. They'll be in a well, mounted on a rack that moves up and down. When retracted, there'll be a plate on the bottom of the rack that will fill in the hole so the bottom will be fair. I do question the utility of a folding cat at this size. Remember, it's not just for folding to fit conventional slips. It also folds so it can live out of the water on a trailer. Demountable would save lots of weight and money. Enough money saved perhaps to pay for a delivery skipper from time to time. I hear that brother! Having a delivery skipper would still mean having all the heavy cruising gear that I want to avoid. Thanks for your thoughts! Link to post Share on other sites
rustylaru 58 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 [rustylaru] Where are you planning to mount your out boards? In the compartment just forward of the sugar scoops. They'll be in a well, mounted on a rack that moves up and down. When retracted, there'll be a plate on the bottom of the rack that will fill in the hole so the bottom will be fair. Good choice. The outboards on Cat2fold cavitate (sp) in any kind of sea way I do question the utility of a folding cat at this size. Remember, it's not just for folding to fit conventional slips. It also folds so it can live out of the water on a trailer. A lot of yards will put your cat on blocks. I know it cost more a haul out but what did C2f cost to build $400? large.Sold for $100? large. Big loss! That's lots of haul out a storing fees. Demountable would save lots of weight and money. Enough money saved perhaps to pay for a delivery skipper from time to time. I hear that brother! Having a delivery skipper would still mean having all the heavy cruising gear that I want to avoid. What heavy gear do you get to skip because you can't supply it for a 14day delivery. Your going to want that amount of water and food and gas for a Sea of Cortez Cruise. Thanks for your thoughts! I think your 38' cat is the perfect size. I did 1000mile on C2F in the haha this past fall and that size cat is very comfortable for extended cruising with no live aboard pretensions. The Kurt Hughes 38' hulls could be a great hull to base your dreams around. But my takeaway feeling from being a guest on C2f was "lots of financial pain for the builder, for minor utility gain for user." Keep us posted. Link to post Share on other sites
Reflex Sailor 5 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Couple more questions.... - how do you handle/stow the mainsail - I assume halyards etc will run inside the house, but looks very exposed on the top of the house for stowing etc - how do you plan to handle anchors etc? Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 [rustylaru] Good choice. The outboards on Cat2fold cavitate (sp) in any kind of sea way I made this decision for several reasons and cavitation was one. I also want my scoops to be clear so access isn't compromised. The sliding rack will also allow me to pull a motor out of it's well to use on a dingy. A lot of yards will put your cat on blocks. I know it cost more a haul out but what did C2f cost to build $400? large.Sold for $100? large. Big loss! That's lots of haul out a storing fees. I intend to use a trailer to haul the boat around any way. I'd like to be able to easily pull it in and out of the water as well. I've struggled with the folding concept for a long time. I know it's expensive. If there is any way to accomplish this component, I want it. I'm a realist, though. If it turns out to be too much, I'll reconsider. What heavy gear do you get to skip because you can't supply it for a 14day delivery. Your going to want that amount of water and food and gas for a Sea of Cortez Cruise. [/font] There is another reason for the container. The ability to build this boat and ship it anywhere. If i can make this work, I might think about going into production. I think your 38' cat is the perfect size. I did 1000mile on C2F in the haha this past fall and that size cat is very comfortable for extended cruising with no live aboard pretensions. The Kurt Hughes 38' hulls could be a great hull to base your dreams around. But my takeaway feeling from being a guest on C2f was "lots of financial pain for the builder, for minor utility gain for user." I think the size is perfect as well. Bigger cats are fine for the charter business but not very high performance until you get into the Gunboats and very few people can afford something like this. I think most people interested in a cat are looking for something about like what I've come up with. Very few people go anywhere with their boats so I figure a high performance, extended weekender is about right (think Catalina Yachts). Being foldable and containerable just give it new dimensions and capabilities. I'd like to talk to you more about your time on C2F. I've corresponded with both Kurt Hughes and Rafi about that boat - it was my inspiration. The sales price reflected the fact that C2F was a one off. We see this all the time with one offs. I understand Rafi is already making plans for his next folding cat, a 30 footer. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with. I'm currently following the Cat2Fold saga in Mexico. It's very exciting to see it performing so well and the new owners so happy with it! Link to post Share on other sites
billgow 1 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 [Reflex Sailor] how do you handle/stow the mainsail Lazyjacks. All controls are at the base of the mast. I assume halyards etc will run inside the house, but looks very exposed on the top of the house for stowing etc Inside the mast and exiting into the cockpit. Nothing is stowed on the roof/bimini. That surface is mostly for solar panels and as protection from the sun. The panels will be supported so you can walk on them, though. how do you plan to handle anchors etc? There is a hatch just behind the box at the base of the mast in the deck. All anchor components are located there. Inside the box (under the mast) is the windlass. Anchoring is accomplished while still standing at the controls. No going forward, yelling at the first mate, etc. A one-man operation. You can kind of see it in these pictures Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
spidennis 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 billgow, I like that you're sticking to your guns. A lot of posters seem to just be cutting in line and throwing in their sort of opinion based on what they what, not what you want. Do they even read into the thread first before posting? I know you've given this tons of thought and it seems like you have to re explain yourself to everyone over and over again, I know it got old with me and my design. Having a thread does help keep the ball rolling in a way, but it's also a bit of a distraction. Now that I got my mind made up that this is what I'm going to do I know longer what to hear about how somebody else might do it completely different, usually with a whole different boat (like a tri) so I'm into getting into the details of it, and starting a thread based on specific questions (usually on boatdesign.net). Making scale models really helps figure out some details and shows the working geometries in action. With my little point and shoot camera I make youtube videos so that other interested types can see what's happening. I even got a request for plans a few days ago! So the folding idea, while may not be a huge interest does have some interest with a few select folk, and as for the nay sayers it's just water off a duck's back! I'm really looking forward to what v2.0 comes out to be, v1.0 being cat2fold being successful in my book and I'm sure with those lessons you're boat will surely turn out to be one heck of a cool idea that we'll (hopefully) read about while you're out on your adventures. Made some models, show some pics, stay focused on the goal! Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,523 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 From what I've read above, here are a couple of ideas (that haven't been posted already) that already exist, but are not the preferred size.. I have to post them separately, so it will take a couple of edits. ( the joys of iPad....) Shark catamaran- cool folding system, not insanely heavy. I've wondered if a larger version could incorporate a small cabin to give the thickess required for the fold, some minimal quarters in the hull, and a dedicated trailer that could slide into the box. If you're not doing passage making, how big do you need, especially if you're sailing in warm climes? And there was a Shark times 2 (in size), so scaling up has been done, although I don't know if it folded. http://sharkcatamaranclass.org/WHAT.HTML The G 32. Skinny but fast. I think Berndt has done some like this too. Length doesn't need to be big. A 38 foot version? Wouldn't need a huge stick? http://www.gougeon.com/prosetepoxy/G-32/welcome.html This seems like a logical design (your's), odd that it hasn't been done much before. Paul Link to post Share on other sites
rustylaru 58 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 billgow, I like that you're sticking to your guns. A lot of posters seem to just be cutting in line and throwing in their sort of opinion based on what they what, not what you want. Do they even read into the thread first before posting? I know you've given this tons of thought and it seems like you have to re explain yourself to everyone over and over again, I know it got old with me and my design. Having a thread does help keep the ball rolling in a way, but it's also a bit of a distraction. Now that I got my mind made up that this is what I'm going to do I know longer what to hear about how somebody else might do it completely different, usually with a whole different boat (like a tri) so I'm into getting into the details of it, and starting a thread based on specific questions (usually on boatdesign.net). Making scale models really helps figure out some details and shows the working geometries in action. With my little point and shoot camera I make youtube videos so that other interested types can see what's happening. I even got a request for plans a few days ago! So the folding idea, while may not be a huge interest does have some interest with a few select folk, and as for the nay sayers it's just water off a duck's back! I'm really looking forward to what v2.0 comes out to be, v1.0 being cat2fold being successful in my book and I'm sure with those lessons you're boat will surely turn out to be one heck of a cool idea that we'll (hopefully) read about while you're out on your adventures. Made some models, show some pics, stay focused on the goal! I have read thread. C2F sure was successful at costing an absurd amount of money. I think it is a cautionary tale worth listen to. It is a long way from a good idea to a successfully build. Of course, if the adventure you seek is in design, not actually sailing and cruising then please bleed money for the rest of us. Link to post Share on other sites
spidennis 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 billgow, I like that you're sticking to your guns. A lot of posters seem to just be cutting in line and throwing in their sort of opinion based on what they what, not what you want. Do they even read into the thread first before posting? I know you've given this tons of thought and it seems like you have to re explain yourself to everyone over and over again, I know it got old with me and my design. Having a thread does help keep the ball rolling in a way, but it's also a bit of a distraction. Now that I got my mind made up that this is what I'm going to do I know longer what to hear about how somebody else might do it completely different, usually with a whole different boat (like a tri) so I'm into getting into the details of it, and starting a thread based on specific questions (usually on boatdesign.net). Making scale models really helps figure out some details and shows the working geometries in action. With my little point and shoot camera I make youtube videos so that other interested types can see what's happening. I even got a request for plans a few days ago! So the folding idea, while may not be a huge interest does have some interest with a few select folk, and as for the nay sayers it's just water off a duck's back! I'm really looking forward to what v2.0 comes out to be, v1.0 being cat2fold being successful in my book and I'm sure with those lessons you're boat will surely turn out to be one heck of a cool idea that we'll (hopefully) read about while you're out on your adventures. Made some models, show some pics, stay focused on the goal! I have read thread. C2F sure was successful at costing an absurd amount of money. I think it is a cautionary tale worth listen to. It is a long way from a good idea to a successfully build. Of course, if the adventure you seek is in design, not actually sailing and cruising then please bleed money for the rest of us. I won't argue that c2f was difficult and expensive but success or failure is only a matter of opinion. The boat was built and sailed, didn't sink or get destroyed and later was sold to someone else that wanted it. Sure, I can see this boat isn't for everyone but it is for a few. My opinion is it was an expensive success. Yes, there's those that like to design and build, others that only want to buy an off the shelf boat and go sail, and there's nothing wrong with either. If someone has the bucks to pursue an idea like this and further the adventure into this realm then why not? You mention this cautionary tale? Sure, it's something to learn from and those that can't really afford this should really listen closely and that goes for most of us, but then there's always the guy that can and will do it, I got nothing against that guy, and in this case it's billgow the op. I'll support what he's trying to do including those that offer good suggestions and insight. I'd really like to see this succeed! Link to post Share on other sites
spidennis 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 From what I've read above, here are a couple of ideas (that haven't been posted already) that already exist, but are not the preferred size.. I have to post them separately, so it will take a couple of edits. ( the joys of iPad....) Shark catamaran- cool folding system, not insanely heavy. I've wondered if a larger version could incorporate a small cabin to give the thickess required for the fold, some minimal quarters in the hull, and a dedicated trailer that could slide into the box. If you're not doing passage making, how big do you need, especially if you're sailing in warm climes? And there was a Shark times 2 (in size), so scaling up has been done, although I don't know if it folded. http://sharkcatamara...s.org/WHAT.HTML The G 32. Skinny but fast. I think Berndt has done some like this too. Length doesn't need to be big. A 38 foot version? Wouldn't need a huge stick? http://www.gougeon.c...32/welcome.html This seems like a logical design (your's), odd that it hasn't been done much before. Paul I find the G32 and the "Strings" very similar ...... a progression in the works? I'll have to go and take a closer look at the two. Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,523 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 At 38 feet the proportions start making more aesthetic sense. Go to a Tornado rig, or at least some sort of class B cat rig. Tornadomaran! Sounds better than Trinado methinks. Class B cats get no respect. Now, a C class cruising cat. mmmmmmmmmmmmm See Richard Woods for close encounters of the second kind..... Paul Edit- http://www.flyer-cat.de/pages/german/ckat.php Link to post Share on other sites
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