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Any comments regarding Charleston Race Week results?

 

I'm going to assume that the reasons they were 95 sec/mile adrift (corrected!) of the winning Farr 280 were mostly non-boat related?

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This has got to be the most butt ugly boat I've ever seen. You've got to have ton of self confidence to be considering this ride.

Photos from charleston race week just over.

 

http://www.photoboatgallery.net/p189702596

Looks like the boat needs to go on a diet, and kick off a crew member for that light stuff. Dragging that fat arse around all day isn't fast

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post-101870-0-47346900-1397717156_thumb.jpg

 

This has got to be the most butt ugly boat I've ever seen. You've got to have ton of self confidence to be considering this ride.
Photos from charleston race week just over.

http://www.photoboatgallery.net/p189702596

Looks like the boat needs to go on a diet, and kick off a crew member for that light stuff. Dragging that fat arse around all day isn't fast

No, this is BUTT UGLY

 

 

 

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This has got to be the most butt ugly boat I've ever seen. You've got to have ton of self confidence to be considering this ride.

Photos from charleston race week just over.

 

http://www.photoboatgallery.net/p189702596

In all fairness, I have to admire lots of the detail that is incorporated after watching Cleans video. Saw the boat at the dock at CRW and thought the foredeck mounted solar panel looked very slick. I presume it's capable of foot traffic.

However, the overall shape with the slab topsides doesn't conjure "yacht" in my mind. I know chines are all the rage lately, but I'm not buying in.

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  • 2 weeks later...

seascape27-14-6-1170x780.jpg

 

Some shots from our test sail in Sweden yesterday. Sweet boat... more photos here.

 

Pros: fun boat, especially downwind, perfect for doublehanded racing, build quality, smart design and interior.

Cons: deck gear and running rigging not well speced and outboard arrangement a bit wobbly. All fixable.

 

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Great shots Peter!

 

This little clip is from transport sailing back to Malmö from Gothenburg, currently staying in Falkenberg tonighr. We are three on board today and it is very liveable on board. I have spent the last five days full time living in and sailing this boat. Works very well.

 

Video is 17-20 kts wind with 54 sqm main sail One Sails 4T and a 82 sqm gennaker also from One Sails. Boat speed is 10-14 kts with with thus setting. I am sure we could have squeezed a bit more speed out of her but mostly enjoyed the ride. It was first time for Jens to sail with gennaker and he did very well. Love the feeling how stability increases with speed. :)

 

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Here is a pic from Peter (BLUR) with me sailing upwind with gennaker in 6-8 kts wind. Illustrates well how manageable the boat is. Never mind the windex gates, they seem to have come loose - the arrow still points correctly and the gates aren't really necessary since the sails are very communicative.

 

seascape27-14-5.jpg

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Blur wrote:

Pros: fun boat, especially downwind, perfect for doublehanded racing, build quality, smart design and interior.

Cons: deck gear and running rigging not well speced and outboard arrangement a bit wobbly. All fixable.

 

I think he is referring to the use of Ronstan blocks. To date we have not had any problems with them. They are light, attaches with lashings instead of shackles so I don't see the problem. Having everything from one company also helps logistically. Regarding the engine bracket - yes it flexes a little as you power up past 5 KTS under motor with the 8-9.8 shp engine. Does not look difficult to fix - just have not had the time yet.

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Blur wrote:

Pros: fun boat, especially downwind, perfect for doublehanded racing, build quality, smart design and interior.

Cons: deck gear and running rigging not well speced and outboard arrangement a bit wobbly. All fixable.

 

I think he is referring to the use of Ronstan blocks. To date we have not had any problems with them. They are light, attaches with lashings instead of shackles so I don't see the problem. Having everything from one company also helps logistically. Regarding the engine bracket - yes it flexes a little as you power up past 5 KTS under motor with the 8-9.8 shp engine. Does not look difficult to fix - just have not had the time yet.

 

Mmm... on this boat the propeller had hit the hull, the engine pushed against the aft end of the recess and someone had to stand on the engine while backing in 2 knots. So pretty disappointing. But fixable.

 

Regarding deck gear I'm sure it'll work just fine. For me it's more a feel that the purchase department made the decision :rolleyes: When I test sail a J/88 or Bolt 37 it's obvious that someone with the same thinking as myself selected the hardware and sized the running rigging. Now I feel like upgrading stuff from get go.

 

Again. Just small things on a great boat.

 

BTW. Do anyone have measured weight on a shipped boat?

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Hi Peter, for the engine bracket you should insert the pin to the bracket that prevents it from lifting when reversing. It is already there just needs to be put in place. For the deck gear would be interested to know what changes would you do. Unlike most of the new boats we spent a year working on a prototypes deck layout and optimising the running rigging but it is true we come from French school which thinks a bit different :)

 

Here are some photos of the prototype http://frederic-augendre.photoshelter.com/gallery/Seascape-27/G0000n9TpYO2lz9g/0/1

 

All boats are weighted and we don't accept any hull that is more than 2% off of the 580kg specified weight. The end weight depends on what you weigh: in our new standard specification boats are 1380kg+-2%.

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Hi Peter, for the engine bracket you should insert the pin to the bracket that prevents it from lifting when reversing. It is already there just needs to be put in place. For the deck gear would be interested to know what changes would you do. Unlike most of the new boats we spent a year working on a prototypes deck layout and optimising the running rigging but it is true we come from French school which thinks a bit different :)

 

Here are some photos of the prototype http://frederic-augendre.photoshelter.com/gallery/Seascape-27/G0000n9TpYO2lz9g/0/1

 

All boats are weighted and we don't accept any hull that is more than 2% off of the 580kg specified weight. The end weight depends on what you weigh: in our new standard specification boats are 1380kg+-2%.

 

Thanks for the feedback. The pin was in and the engine was in a proper position, but the propeller still came to close to the aft end because of "wobbling". Might be an isolated problem, but need some work on this specific boat.

 

I'm used to on "open-style" deck layouts looking into both Class 40 and the latest IMOCA. Also my own J/111 (where simplicity is key) was built in Les Sables d'Olonne so I've spent my fair share of time on the French atlantic coast :)

 

I would specifically like to understand how the jib-inhaul/infucker is supposed to work since it was fixed? Also the tapered main sheet and spin sheets were to long (thin part ended up on winch/in hand), and according to the owner several lines was to short. Are there a spec sheet for the running rigging?`

 

1380 kg seems about right.

 

Again, just small things. Congrats to a sweet boat!

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Peter, all lines are either right in length or a bit long.:-)

 

We found the reason to the engine tilting/lifting in this boat. The laminate board for the outboard flexes. It has given in but not cracked. Heard from another owner with.same setup tjat he had no issues.

 

It occurred the day before the event, wasn't lile that before. Easy fix.

 

The boat as shown had only sailed to the event. Except for test hoisting sails in Malmö the boat is mostly as delivered. We did this 280 nm run very much as a shakedown.

 

So it is performing well straight out of the box. Only minor adjustments and tweaks done. :-)

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Yes tapered sheets are prefabricated and we don't unpack and shorten them. Have it on the to do list though. Other ropes should be right length - some are longer since some prefer it that way (main control ropes like vang, cunn., out. …)

 

For the bracket we got feedback - we are sending replacement.

 

For the inhauler: as you can see from the proto photos we started with mumm30 system which is super clean and neat but after a while simplified it to fixed one to give owners just 2 discrete positions. There are several reasons for that:

- we us inside D1 which doesn't allow you lots of play on the inhauler - you need to change sheet to outside of the D1 eventually.

- as you notice we have an aggressive chine which ends up giving boat a well defined sweetspot for upwind (remember the story about mini maxi Alfa Romeo). This is about 40-42deg TWA in flat water and 45-47 in chop. This are also the sheeting positions with or without the inhauler. For some techno geeks it is super easy to add a cleat and make inhauler adjustable but we don't see reason for it.

 

When you were wandering about forestay tension - normally you would use big jib until 17-20kt (depending on crew weight and sea state) and rig seems to handle that pretty well - with a bit more tension that you had on the test according to video. Then you change to staysail on 1:2 halyard anyway (we had 1:3 in the start but it was not needed) so you can winch desired tension in the luff. It is not the same as having runners off course (also easy to add if someone would like a more demanding boat) but helps a lot.

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Another fun fact about Peters test sail is that we completed it by entering the marina with gennaker and full main up and engine not in the water.

 

Then we reversed up to our slot inside of the other boats on display.

 

Crew of four who had not sailed together before. It is a confidence inspiring vessel to say the least.

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Second time out with the boat, in flat water.

 

In Swedish: http://sundetregatta.blogspot.se/2014/04/seascape-27-testad-andra-turen-nagonsin.html

 

In English with Google Translate: https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http://sundetregatta.blogspot.se/2014/04/seascape-27-testad-andra-turen-nagonsin.html&edit-text=

 

I'd prefer the mainsheet and traveler controls closer to the helm so the kite trimmer can do that while the helm runs the main shorthanded. helm trimming the kite seems backward to me.

 

CIMG4380.JPG

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]I'd prefer the mainsheet and traveler controls closer to the helm so the kite trimmer can do that while the helm runs the main shorthanded. helm trimming the kite seems backward to me. CIMG4380.JPG

@bf children

you'd actually be surprised how well this setup works, both for shorthanded and fully crewed racing. shorthande,d helm sits further forward than in above pic, just behind the primary winch and has traveller and mainsheet under control, kite may be trimmed from just about any position in the cockpit. ortherwise the driver moves further back a leaves the space to a dedicated main trimme, which can also sit in front of the winch at the bulckhead. I think the cockpit layout is one of the things that set this boat apart from others, lot's of thought and tryout went into it.

go sail the boat if you have the opportunity, i'm pretty sure you'll love it.

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Cool boat. The attention to detail is something my wife and I noticed with a few boats built in Slovenia like the keel lifting mechanism looks clean and well thought out, the basic yet clean and simple interior stuff like doors and stowage etc. The Antrim 27 actually I like the cockpit better more seat depth between the rail and the edge of the seat little better cockpit regarding comfort but the attention to detail on the smaller stuff just makes the Seascape a nice complete package.

 

I'd love to see them bring their little 18 here to the US also. I think they did a great job on that little boat also.

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About cockpit layout it works really well. I don't know what I would change to be honest. We will add clamcleats for the Spinex furlers to inner jib and downwind sails.

Whenever I need to do something that requires hands off the tiller the remote for the autopilot is around my neck. When by the tiller I can control the main and jib/gennaker for trim. Of course I can run with a lot more power and smaller margin if one person is manning the jib/gennaker and I only do the tiller and main. With crew of four cockpit is still roomy enough not to get in each others way.

 

When on downwind with jib

Combine this with the Bluetooth stereo and Spotify from my waterproof smartphone the boat really turns heads in tight archipelago sailing.

:-D

 

Just came home from over 300 nm in six days including test sails - this wouldn't have worked if it wasn't a very good boat. When we headed out six days ago we were still not familiar with the boat.

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Btw, the traveler cleats can be moved in front or behind the winch. We had guys who wanted it one way or the other so we made monolithic reinforcement for the cleat long enough that you can move it if you want.

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Bulbhunter wrote: I'd love to see them bring their little 18 here to the US also. I think they did a great job on that little boat also.

 

>>> The first one has already arrived!

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Bulbhunter wrote: I'd love to see them bring their little 18 here to the US also. I think they did a great job on that little boat also.

 

>>> The first one has already arrived!

Yes the first 18 just arrived on Friday and got word today that it has cleared customs. So now the 18 will join her big sister in New Orleans and should be in the water by next week.

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The 18 is a little more cruisey than the 5.7 or say the VX One. So you will see a little more comfort, little less tweaks and a little less speed. But it adds stability along with those attributes.

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The 18 is a little more cruisey than the 5.7 or say the VX One. So you will see a little more comfort, little less tweaks and a little less speed. But it adds stability along with those attributes.

That's the understatement of the year

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Biggest difference between the Open 5.70 and the Seascape 18 to me, is the keel arrangement - (deck-crane lifting dagger on the Open, swinging centerboard on the Seascape).

 

One will perform better, the other can do skinny water.

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The Seascape 18 would fill an attractive niche in the US if it can be brought in economically. A nice mix of performance and camping-friendly format. Early adopters, please post your reports so this little boat gets some attention!

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The 18 is a little more cruisey than the 5.7 or say the VX One. So you will see a little more comfort, little less tweaks and a little less speed. But it adds stability along with those attributes.

The huge advantage I see to the 18 is the swing keel set up vs the vertical lift. I spent 17yrs racing and trailering the U20 with the vertical lift keel even with the some what well thought out crane vs winch set up the vertical lifting keel had its disadvantages when you were launching in unfamiliar water and shallow areas. The swing keel is not a new concept it just hasn't had a fresh set of engineering eyes put on it in a long time. The swing keel has its advantages especially in a trailerable rig.

 

I see the 18 as a modern answer to all of those tired Day Sailors still being raced and serving as family starter boats and micro cruiser sail in campsite type uses. The Sailing industry really hasn't seen any new fresh options that fit that niche since the hey days when everyone was building and selling fiberglass boats.

 

I would love to see the 18 at the Alameda Sail only show next year typically second week of April hint hint.. Also if you can plan it typically the first weekend in March is the Sail a small Sailboat day at RYC which is always highly regarded as a great way to go and check out various fleets and even new boats, go sail them etc. Another Hint for ya Sea Scape guys ;-)

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Biggest difference between the Open 5.70 and the Seascape 18 to me, is the keel arrangement - (deck-crane lifting dagger on the Open, swinging centerboard on the Seascape).

 

One will perform better, the other can do skinny water.

The swing keel I see as being more friendly to the family lake sailor also. Having been your family lake sailor type, and living with the U20 for a long time I can easily see how a swing keel set up would have been several steps more simplified regarding handling the boat at the boat ramp. And as you pointed out improves your ability to deal with thin water situations in a less damaging manner. Ask any of the U20 owners who have made solid contact with the bottom they'll all tell you its a costly mistake and in that case your only option is to simply stay out of thin water at all costs. Also the vertical lift boats only motor backwards with any sort of directional accuracy given with the keel all the way up they are slicker than a slip'n slide at a Coed Frat party.

 

The flip up keel leaves some vertical surface in place giving the boat some directional stability which still gives you the ability to drive it forward and in the direction you would like to go. <-- which is a big bonus for folks who want the boat to double as a family / mini cruiser exploring areas they are not familiar with.

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Thanks for the tips guys. I plan to fly over to New Orleans to help set her up for the first time and then we'll see how we go from there.

And although she is not a dedicated sport boat like Open570, M20 or J70 she is quite a bit of fun. And she is designed to sail shorthanded. Last year we managed to beat quite a few Minis (admittedly not sailed at their best) at 130 mile siglehanded race in Denmark.

In any case we'll keep you posted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As Andraz mentioned, he will be in New Orleans for the Juby Wynne Regatta at Southern Yacht Club this Memorial Day weekend. There will be a Seascape18 to view and available to sail for the the week. Come and see the modern day Flying Scot, that is comprised of both comfort and performance.

 

In addition to the 18, I will have my 27 available as well at the club.

 

Any interests or questions please PM so we can set something up.

 

www.thinkseascape.com

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... Come and see the modern day Flying Scot, that is comprised of both comfort and performance more comfort.

 

 

 

www.thinkseascape.com

 

Sailing a Flying Scot is like sailing a wheelbarrow, except with the wheelbarrow you get more feedback in steering and you don't have to put up with those twinky-ass halyard winches. Less initial stability though, some people really like that.

 

I'd love to see the Seascapes though. More of a candidate for the 18 than the 27 but they both look like great boats.

 

FB- Doug

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  • 2 weeks later...

The race is a 110 mile point to point race from Åsgårdsstrand in Norway to Skagen in Denmark via a bouy outside Lysekil in Sweden. This year it was reaching and running in moderately fresh winds so hardly surprising that the Seascape did well. Anyway a job well done.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

SSC 27 looks like a great boat. I'm reading through that PDF linked at the beginning of the thread (http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf), and I found the following quote:

 

"The true uniqueness of Seascape 27 is that she is the

only offshore capable boat that fits into a 40’HC container
(only 233 cm wide) while sitting on the trailer. That means
you simply roll her in, ship her to your favourite destination
for less than a price of the marina berth, and roll her out
when she arrives"
My question is about the "less than the price of a marina berth" part. Doesn't a shipping container cost up to $10k? That seems like an expensive marina berth. What are they talking about here?
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Anyone on the SF Bay that is planning on acquiring one of these? I would think that it would be a great all around boat for the great summer conditions and mild winter conditions.

Who in the US has one? I would love to fly out and check one out in person on the water.

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anyone do a side by side of the Antrim 27 and Seascape?

 

I agree it would be fun here, what about coastal? Spinnaker cup and a drive home would be nice...

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SSC 27 looks like a great boat. I'm reading through that PDF linked at the beginning of the thread (http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf), and I found the following quote:

 

"The true uniqueness of Seascape 27 is that she is the

only offshore capable boat that fits into a 40’HC container
(only 233 cm wide) while sitting on the trailer. That means
you simply roll her in, ship her to your favourite destination
for less than a price of the marina berth, and roll her out
when she arrives"
My question is about the "less than the price of a marina berth" part. Doesn't a shipping container cost up to $10k? That seems like an expensive marina berth. What are they talking about here?

A couple of things. Yes, the boat does fit in a 40'HC container but it does need to be canted on the trailer to fit into the box. The boat is actually 254cm wide. But it is pretty simple to get her in and out of the box.

Try the website www.thinkseascape.com as the boat has changed a bit from the conceptual PDF in the link that you supplied.

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Anyone on the SF Bay that is planning on acquiring one of these? I would think that it would be a great all around boat for the great summer conditions and mild winter conditions.

Who in the US has one? I would love to fly out and check one out in person on the water.

There are two in North America. One on Lake Champlain(CAN 17) north of the border and the second one, down on the Gulf Coast in New Orleans(USA18). Send me a PM if you are really interested.

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anyone do a side by side of the Antrim 27 and Seascape?

 

I agree it would be fun here, what about coastal? Spinnaker cup and a drive home would be nice...

It is pretty close in size and measurements. The SSC27 is a big 27' boat. The foot print just seems bigger and has more wetted surface than the A27. They rate pretty close 96(SSC) to 93(A27) on the gulf coast. The A27 has an inboard and a couple other tweaks to it, so it may be the slowest rated A27 in the country. And is currently for sale. We have done a couple of beer can races against her and have beaten her boat for boat in the the lighter stuff. Hope to see more of them in the future to see how it all fairs out. There are a couple of coast races that we will do, 50 and 100 mi in the future. Should be fun.

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SSC 27 looks like a great boat. I'm reading through that PDF linked at the beginning of the thread (http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf), and I found the following quote:

 

"The true uniqueness of Seascape 27 is that she is the

only offshore capable boat that fits into a 40HC container

(only 233 cm wide) while sitting on the trailer. That means

you simply roll her in, ship her to your favourite destination

for less than a price of the marina berth, and roll her out

when she arrives"

 

My question is about the "less than the price of a marina berth" part. Doesn't a shipping container cost up to $10k? That seems like an expensive marina berth. What are they talking about here?

A couple of things. Yes, the boat does fit in a 40'HC container but it does need to be canted on the trailer to fit into the box. The boat is actually 254cm wide. But it is pretty simple to get her in and out of the box.

Try the website www.thinkseascape.com as the boat has changed a bit from the conceptual PDF in the link that you supplied.

I'm actually not asking about that. I'm asking is it really cheaper than "a marina berth" to ship the boat?

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If by marina berth, you mean the ships that are equipped to ship fully assembled sailboats across the Atlantic, you will find them more expensive and choose of ports limited so you need to transport the boat to and from their port of call. I think the cost of shipping by container is less than 1/2 with many more pickup and delivery locations. For road transportation the boat is easy to trailer with a car with 5000lb towing capacity and it's not a wide or tall load so no road travel restrictions. Trailer is very stable and has good brakes so you can cover large distances quickly and safely. For good mileage a diesel powered car is probably best.

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Maybe written a bit ambiguous the message is:

Yearly Marina Berth for 27 in Europe is roughly 3000-4000EUR. Shipping a 40ft from Europe to lets say Thailand is roughly 3000EUR. So:

 

ship her to your favourite destination < a price of the marina berth

 

Admittedly your favourite location might be more expensive and the berth price in your country might be cheaper. But this is from the design brief so it is more about the concept.

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If you ever want to race when you are here in Vermont, let me know! I'm not on the Seascape, but I can find you a crew spot on any number of boats.

 

I hope to see the 27 in some of our LCYC races.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for stopping by! Next time you are in the area, drop us a line and we can possibly do something. Boat is now back in the water after some upgrades and testing of a new mast stepping system which works well and saves about $400 each time you drop the boat in water and haul it. This makes it a very affordable boat to trailer to events. Another great advantage is the shallow draft with the keel up which allows you to go places others can't. This is important on Lake Champlain where lake levels at the end of the season restricts the places you can go. It also allows you to find anchorage close to shore when all the spaces in deeper water are taken by other boaters.

 

Ps - Block Island Race seems to be a fun race to do!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Seascape 27 takes 1st place in monohull in the 200 strong field of singlehanded sailors taking part of the Danish Silver Rudder competition. For more information see silverrudder.com, facebook.com/thinkseascape. To see the finish go to https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152705639511101

One man and the elements (wind, no wind, current and fog) for 30 hours!

(credit: facebook.com)

post-74169-0-74526500-1414684274_thumb.jpg

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