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Hi guys

 

I can help with rigg tune. Attached find the basic settings for most normal wind strengths and a very light wind / no waves setting. Disregard the two columns on the far right ( they concern only my boat SUI 15). The second page is about forestay length (sorry in german only). Basically the forestay should be the length form the top of the Jib halyard + 111 cm (that is 43.7 inches for the metrically challenged), measured all the way down to the deck in front of the mast and at the bow, respectively.

I've been using these now for tow seasons (both on our lake on and the adriatic) and they seem to work well (got them form Tit Plevnik, who probably has the most experience with the boat in many different conditions so far).

 

Hope this helps.

 

P.S. Don't think I needed to make any changes to the setup (not fotos, sorry)

Those numbers seems really high Does the rig really need to be that tightly dialed up?

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Went sailing with Svein for the initial ride on his new toy last weekend. Thanks, Svein! A very helpful gentleman! We had 6-10kts and flat water for the first cruise with just the main and jib. T

No one minds a bit of promotion, particularly when someone is paying for it.  But threads like this (there are others) go over the top with the circle jerk gratuitous ads. Been here a few time si

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Hi guys

 

I can help with rigg tune. Attached find the basic settings for most normal wind strengths and a very light wind / no waves setting. Disregard the two columns on the far right ( they concern only my boat SUI 15). The second page is about forestay length (sorry in german only). Basically the forestay should be the length form the top of the Jib halyard + 111 cm (that is 43.7 inches for the metrically challenged), measured all the way down to the deck in front of the mast and at the bow, respectively.

I've been using these now for tow seasons (both on our lake on and the adriatic) and they seem to work well (got them form Tit Plevnik, who probably has the most experience with the boat in many different conditions so far).

 

Hope this helps.

 

P.S. Don't think I needed to make any changes to the setup (not fotos, sorry)

Those numbers seems really high Does the rig really need to be that tightly dialed up?

 

Light winds - no

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Those numbers seems really high Does the rig really need to be that tightly dialed up?

I'm using the light wind settings here on the lake if I expect no more than about 10 kts of TWS. This coming season I'll try to go even a little lower. The standard tension has proven very good in the adriatic between 10 and 25 kts in low to moderate waves.

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Thank you so much for this!

 

I see that SUI15 is signed up for Silverrudder, so I guess I'll see you there.

Yes, Silverrudder is THE project for this season. Looking forward to it. See you in Svendborg!

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

 

f7c3ff0830.jpg

Now that looks uncomfortable.

 

Is there a 27 foot race boat on which racing in those conditions is comfortable? I'd think a J/80, J-27, Anterim 27, GP 26, etc would look much the same...

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f7c3ff0830.jpg

Now that looks uncomfortable.

 

Is there a 27 foot race boat on which racing in those conditions is comfortable? I'd think a J/80, J-27, Anterim 27, GP 26, etc would look much the same...

 

Have you seen the side decks on a Seascape 27? It would be like hiking on a Catalina 27.

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Nice picture, but I digress......

 

My friends over at Seascape are all following the fantastic duel in this years Vendee Globe (hopefully work still gets done$$$) and sent me this great link to better visualize the boats and weather they are sailing in - https://gis.ee/vg/

 

As for the East coast I suspect all Seascapes are on the dry, but a Seascape 24 will be in Florida Jan20-Feb20 (approx) and is expected to be at the Miami boat show. Please contact the US/Canadian dealers at www.thinkseascape.com/dealers or www.seascapeusa.com for more information. If you like to drive/sail home with it from Miami you should ask for the show special.

 

For those of you that have been asking about Seascapes on the West coast we now have both 18 and 27's there and a 27 will arrive Vancouver in spring.

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  • 9 months later...

Have you guys been to Fuerteventura? It was one of those island that had always been on my traveling plan but had somehow never visited. But after reading this other article from https://www.canaryislandsinfo.co.uk/fuerteventura/places/ makes me more willing to do some last minute changes on my travel list. They say that the waves in Costa calma and Playa de Sotavento would make a perfect for surfers and many water activities.  And if your not into some water action I'm very sure that theirs a lot more to do in this fine island. 

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  • 8 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Went sailing with Svein for the initial ride on his new toy last weekend. Thanks, Svein! A very helpful gentleman!

We had 6-10kts and flat water for the first cruise with just the main and jib. The boat is quite responsive in the light stuff, and in 10 knots on a beam reach we were in the upper 7kt range without really trying or flying anything other than the basic sails. She is light and eager and I am more than a little excited to see how she performs with the breeze up hard! 

I've bee interested in the Seascape for a while. I have a Jeanneau Sun Fast 3200 that I use for shorthanded offshore racing as well as a little family cruising. The Seascape trades some interior size for some serious advantages in portability and is obviously much lighter and more eager to step up on a plane. I spent the sail thinking about the boat in two contexts--how she would be on a downwind ride to Hawaii, say in the singlehanded transpac, and how she would have done in last year's Bermuda 1-2 which I competed in with my SF3200. Some observations....

1) The boat is light, but stiff. Typically the punishment for extremely light hulls is tippy upwind performance. I'd love to give her a run in real breeze, but though the boat powered up quickly like a light boat should, the hull's form stability really kicked in and it felt like it had the stability to bash upwind in breeze if required. You step on board from the dock and the boat barely heels--highly unusual for a small, light boat. 

2) The details of the boat are well thought out for offshore sailing. It has the 'small boat' advantages for shorthanders of having light/small sails and gear, but had several thoughtful details that make the boat feel serious about this offshore business. Take the 3-d jib lead adjusters, for example, or the fact that the staysail halyard is on a 2:1 purchase to help get luff tension. That kind of stuff was all over the boat. Awesome. 

3) The interior is well thought out and about all you could ask for in a boat of this size. I could easily imagine loading the stuff I'd need for a Hawaii race and being comfortable down there offshore. I could also imagine taking the wife out for a weekend--not something she was prepared to do on my old Moore 24. 

4) The two biggest features for the 'cruising' sales pitch for this boat--the swing keel and the clever outboard use/storage--were two of my biggest question marks for the offshore side of things. The cleverness and utility of both has already been remarked upon aplenty. The family sailor in me loves both. The offshore sailor in me would want to spend some time getting to know those systems a bit better. Perhaps I'm jaded by the scary moment during last year's 1-2 when Justin stepped off Spadefoot due to keel issues--you have to be really confident in a keel that can move before you go out there and get bashed around solo. Similarly, I'd be quite interested in ensuring my auxiliary power system worked when required and that the floorboards of my cockpit stayed firmly aboard in the event of a rollover! I'd need to get to know those systems pretty well to feel confident. It's a trade-off.  

5) The only place where the Seascape felt like a 'small' boat was in terms of the freeboard. The last three days of my singlehanded Bermuda race consisted of 15-25kts right on the nose and confused seas. It wasn't too pleasant in my 32', 7500-lb boat with lots of freeboard....That might not be a dry ride and it would be hard to hide from the waves. The open cockpit is modern and great and will drain quickly, but you might take some big waves over that low transom. I'd probably add an additional lifeline down low aft out of conservatism and might reinforce the hatch boards in the event a big one came right over and smacked you. It would be a bit of an effort to get a dodger rigged up, but that would probably be worth the effort; the tiller extension is long enough that I could drive comfortably from the front of the cockpit, if only I could find something to hide behind!

Overall, I'm extremely interested in the offshore potential of a boat I can easily slap onto a trailer and drive to the next race, and/or cruise a neat lake with my family. I'd be interested to sail the boat in some big breeze and waves to see how she feels and would be interested to hear from folks that have spent some time in big conditions and hear their comments. And if anyone wants to do some shorthanded distance racing around here, I'm holding up my hand! 

Svein, thanks again--sailing the lake on your boat felt like winning the lottery! I'm excited to see what you do with it.

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Just came in the door from Kaneohe Yacht Club,  the Antrim Ultimate27 is in but not the Express27 fleet yet - sure would be neat to see the SeaScape in that mix, -doublehanded.

The foil-carrying Beneteau is pretty wild to see.

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No one minds a bit of promotion, particularly when someone is paying for it.  But threads like this (there are others) go over the top with the circle jerk gratuitous ads.

Been here a few time since it started but won't be coming back as it's just more of the same syrupy shit.

At least try to make it real.

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Don't worry,  we'll get by without ya.

To be fair though,  SeaScapers - anybody have some fleet standings from anywhere in the US for this summer ?  It'd sure be interesting to see how you're stacking up against the FarEast28,  or just a well sailed Hobie 33 or a J-80 for that matter.

How many sold to the US so far ?  

If you have one on a trailer and you missed Pac Cup, or just don't want to do all the Offshore spec stuff,  you could STILL send your boat from the West Coast to Honolulu in time for the Labor Day race (Maui to Oahu) - it's like a 'mini' Transpac - 78 miles of downwind surfin' fun ending in Waikiki, big breeze often, big warm waves.

Just Sayin...

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Curious if there have been any updates since the Beneteau acquisition - I've reached out to a couple of Bene dealers for details on pricing & availability of the 27 but haven't gotten anything back.  Any anticipated pricing or build/detail changes relative to the SSC27?  

This boat is really interesting to me - I'm contemplating downsizing a bit from my First 405 and this one is high on my list - would love to find one to check out in Southern CA.  

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Prices will stay relatively the same as will the build method, from what i’ve heard the Beneteau influence will seek to lower material costs but other than that the Seascape team will continue as normal spread across 2 sites, the original site where the 27 and 18 are built and a second site where the 24 and 14 are built. Word is in Hamble, UK we might get a couple of stock/borrowed boats of which one may be a 27 and hopefully I’ll be able to get one out on the water in early spring

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Ancasta, with zero experience of the product, tried to bully the existing UK dealer, but seem to have lost interest … From Plymouth he still has some sales going through.

No-one seems to know what Beneteau policy will be for the range. For the time being they have been added to websites and exhibited, but without enthusiasm. The action on racy boats in the group is all Sunfast.

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The First range will be back next year starting with a larger cruiser racer to get things going, looking further down the line there will be a 35 footer but we might not see that until late 2019-2020. The current boats are hardly complex (that’s what makes them so appealing) and i’m sure Ancasta will be just fine. There’s little point getting over excited in the middle of winter until there’s more substance behind the new first range. Watch this space.

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On 7/16/2018 at 6:57 AM, jetfuel said:

I did the Mac with Sven on his first 27 

the boat is awesome offwind in a breeze 

14-17 knots all day long and very stable and easy to drive 

You guys would have needed coast guard assistance if you did the Mac in it last year. That boat is a mission of hate upwind in chop.

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Rumours have the existing larger Seascape project seeing the light of day as the new First model. The 35ish footer may or may not happen. There is a lot of work to be done to bring a rationale to the existing models within a renewed First range, and it is highly likely we will see significant changes of one sort or another. List prices have been reduced, but as yet without any behind the scenes action to maintain acceptable margins, so, again, we shall see. The 18 has some fleet credibility, but is hardly a recent model. The 27 is clever but quirky, with most supporters feeling the 24 has the best chance of commercial success in the new regime.

The 14 is at least a decade, if not 2 or 3 behind the likes of RS in terms of design/production/marketing/usability. Some clever ideas, but not developed as a package which can face the competition sadly. It is a concept rather than a finished article ready for market. Will Beneteau see any future in this boat/size/price?

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Oh and don't forget the "possible" need for a new one design keelboat, without foils, of around 28-30' for the 5 ring circus. Seems the Figaro 3 is too far off spec.

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17 hours ago, fucket said:

You guys would have needed coast guard assistance if you did the Mac in it last year. That boat is a mission of hate upwind in chop.

Just wondering, have we sailed together or which boat have you sailed and under what conditions?

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On 12/23/2018 at 7:19 PM, fucket said:

You guys would have needed coast guard assistance if you did the Mac in it last year. That boat is a mission of hate upwind in chop.

Seems like a lot of boats had issues in last years Mac

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Sailed the 27 quite a bit and in lots of conditions. Boat is a blast off the wind, loves to get its bow out of the water and on a plane. Upwind in chop it does struggle a bit but is manageable, nothing coast guard assistance worthy of.

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I have the only 27 in Chicago, so wondering as well how much sailing he has done on the boat. More fun off wind than up but agree that it is still manageable, just not as much fun. 

Maybe that is what he meant but we will see when he responds.

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On 12/24/2018 at 3:50 PM, cms said:

Rumours have the existing larger Seascape project seeing the light of day as the new First model. The 35ish footer may or may not happen. There is a lot of work to be done to bring a rationale to the existing models within a renewed First range, and it is highly likely we will see significant changes of one sort or another. List prices have been reduced, but as yet without any behind the scenes action to maintain acceptable margins, so, again, we shall see. The 18 has some fleet credibility, but is hardly a recent model. The 27 is clever but quirky, with most supporters feeling the 24 has the best chance of commercial success in the new regime.

The 14 is at least a decade, if not 2 or 3 behind the likes of RS in terms of design/production/marketing/usability. Some clever ideas, but not developed as a package which can face the competition sadly. It is a concept rather than a finished article ready for market. Will Beneteau see any future in this boat/size/price?

I had a meeting in the seascape offices in the summer. The impression i got was that Sam manuard was designing and target size was 32ft (ish).  That was just after the announcement of the sale to beneteau so plans may have changed since then. 

 

Anyone handicap racing the 24 on irc or seen results?

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When everyone is back from holidays I will update you on IRC numbers. My sailmaker son is currently making some new IRC friendly sails for a 24 following his experience of the boat and assessment of what could be done. Out of the box ORC number was 0.9556. IRC on that boat was around the 1.020 but I need to confirm that.

Little video of said son having a blast on the 24.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/equipment/boat-tests/video-seascape-24-test/

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  • 9 months later...

Has anyone heard anything (more) about Beneteau/Seascape coming out with a new 30 (something) footer Beneateau First 30?

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The latest head honcho at Beneteau is not happy about much of what the last guy did. Potential major changes of product direction amongst others.

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1 hour ago, cms said:

The latest head honcho at Beneteau is not happy about much of what the last guy did. Potential major changes of product direction amongst others.

Yeah he was fairly vocal about it, too many products on sale across the whole group and to many clashes in the boats on offer. I would expect the Sunfast 3600 to come off sale before the mid sized First goes on sale. The SF3300 occupies a segment of pure racer where I would expect the First to be more cruiser racer. Think more like a GS34.

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  • 7 months later...

The only new First is the 53, which is a posh, sunshine racer cruiser. Nice boat, but .... The only ex Seascape they have pushed is the 24, with fleets made available for events, and demo boats all over. Not many sold. Short term I would be very surprised to see anything new at the bottom end of their ranges.

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  • 2 months later...

I am considering a change from my J70.Its a great boat amd very strong but I would like something a bit bigger with some more creature comforts.The Seascape 27 ticked a lot of boxes but the First 27 basic version now has an aluminium rig,  not carbon fibre, a smaller sail plan and a fixed keel.  Has that " dumbed the boat down" so its now a floating truck not a racing machine? Anyone have any experience of the new iteration? The " old" SC 27 is still available as the SE model but its a lot more expensive 

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18 minutes ago, Qingdaosog said:

something a bit bigger with some more creature comforts.The Seascape 27 ticked a lot of boxes

What creature comforts are there? 

 

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Creature comforts? There is no racing round here so my J70 is sadly only used for social sailing. The lack of a loo is a problem for mixed crews.And it would be nice to be able to brew a coffee. Not  sure we would do much overnighting but nice to know we can if we want. And a set of instruments would be great. Last week caught in a rising wind and rolling fog. 100m visibility .My velocitek  got us back but more by luck than judgement. 

I really like the no-frills website but it seems he is buying the SE version . Lifting keel and all. I am hoping to find out if the basic version still works.  

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  • 2 months later...

Still no news  about the Aluminium rigged First 27 . Dacron sails, conventional main, backstay fixed keel . 10 hp diesel power too. Seems like it will be a very different boat to the Seascape 27, (Now First 27 SE).   I am very interested to hear about progress and if it still performs in a lively way. Could be a good option for us less accomplished sailors who still want some excitement.  Or we could be giving away  tickets for a bus ride... Anyone hear anything yet?

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If it helps them sell any more then it has to be worth it. The price of the Seascapes/Firsts in the UK is very high and none have been bought. The UK dealer doesn’t really like them and is also very unenthusiastic about trying to sell them. They have an 18 and 24 in stock and would probably take a rude offer on them. I like the 27 but for some markets I think it looks a little too specialist and too expensive for a 27 footer. Personally I would still have a 24 in a heartbeat if I could afford it!

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There is a lot of talk about most, or even all of the ex Seascape boats stopping production. Trying to get rid of the Slovenian factory. Other noises suggest someone may take the range back to the Seascape name, but in the current health and economy situation nothing is easy and certainly not quick.

In the UK, the original Seascape dealer in Plymouth, Pete Wanstall, sold a good numbers of 18s for a while, then 27s. Totally different, much more personal operation. He generally drove down to the factory and towed boats back for clients. The 24 could have been a success too, but arrived only just before the Beneteau takeover. Ancasta wanted nothing to do with Peter and treated him quite offhandedly, so he bowed out. They never really tried to sell the boats, seeing them as too expensive and hoping the prices would come down.

What was launched as a face saver for the First brand never got serious attention and has been marginalised under the more recent management changes. A bit sad.

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3 hours ago, cms said:

... Ancasta wanted nothing to do with Peter and treated him quite offhandedly, so he bowed out. They never really tried to sell the boats, seeing them as too expensive and hoping the prices would come down. 

I spent several months trying to buy a 24 from Ancasta last autumn but the salesman was appalling. They still have boat I sea trialled (and made a not-very-rude-offer on), not that they’d notice it in amongst the big cruisers.

The 18, 24 & 27 are all lovely boats, but they all suffer too much under IRC, and against the competition. Until VPRS gets a better foothold (or indeed, if) the brits and French are going to continue to race under IRC. You can make all the family videos you like but anyone buying a boat with those specs is coming from racing, and likely to want to race pretty regularly.

The 24 would have been perfect for the kids and I, but the price was at least £10k above what a boat of that kind should realistically be marketed for. You could easily spend £60k+ and have something worth £25k (and a nightmare to sell) after 3 years. No one said sailing was cheap but that’s just not viable.

I bought a new 3600 in the end. It’s a very different boat, and it’ll be used for different things than the 24 would have, but I’m sure we’ll have a lot of fun anyway. 

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This all seems a sad state of affairs..... Good to  hear from someone at Beneteau/ Seascape about the situation  There was a lot of enthusiasm for the First 27 in earlier posts. Now that enthusiasm seems to have dissipated

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I can still manage to sell used 27s at 65-85K € when I can get them, so there are people out there who really like the boat. Beneteau and specially Ancasta never got serious.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:26 PM, bissona said:

I spent several months trying to buy a 24 from Ancasta last autumn but the salesman was appalling. They still have boat I sea trialled (and made a not-very-rude-offer on), not that they’d notice it in amongst the big cruisers.

The 18, 24 & 27 are all lovely boats, but they all suffer too much under IRC, and against the competition. Until VPRS gets a better foothold (or indeed, if) the brits and French are going to continue to race under IRC. You can make all the family videos you like but anyone buying a boat with those specs is coming from racing, and likely to want to race pretty regularly.

The 24 would have been perfect for the kids and I, but the price was at least £10k above what a boat of that kind should realistically be marketed for. You could easily spend £60k+ and have something worth £25k (and a nightmare to sell) after 3 years. No one said sailing was cheap but that’s just not viable.

I bought a new 3600 in the end. It’s a very different boat, and it’ll be used for different things than the 24 would have, but I’m sure we’ll have a lot of fun anyway. 

A5548AAD-AA79-4257-826E-5CDA0D4E1198.thumb.jpeg.9ff33e67f73b36830b745169f5fda309.jpeg

I rather enjoyed that day out!

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9 hours ago, JL92S said:

I rather enjoyed that day out!

:D You were very kind to take me out in such miserable conditions (and with my cackhanded helming)! I loved the boat, and I will seriously consider buying one once my 3600 days are over, even if it's just to go out and play in the gales.  

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On 11/13/2020 at 12:34 PM, JL92S said:

If it helps them sell any more then it has to be worth it. The price of the Seascapes/Firsts in the UK is very high and none have been bought. The UK dealer doesn’t really like them and is also very unenthusiastic about trying to sell them. They have an 18 and 24 in stock and would probably take a rude offer on them. I like the 27 but for some markets I think it looks a little too specialist and too expensive for a 27 footer. Personally I would still have a 24 in a heartbeat if I could afford it!

I've had a difficult time even getting pricing for the First 14 in the US.  A few dealers have pushed me towards the 18 and 24 so maybe they have access to them, but I can't seem to get pricing, let alone see a 14.

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7 hours ago, bissona said:

:D You were very kind to take me out in such miserable conditions (and with my cackhanded helming)! I loved the boat, and I will seriously consider buying one once my 3600 days are over, even if it's just to go out and play in the gales.  

Good luck with the 3600. I’ve seen it in and out of the Hamble recently and it looks good. I’ve done a few thousand miles in a 3600 and they’re great boats

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4 hours ago, PurpleOnion said:

I've had a difficult time even getting pricing for the First 14 in the US.  A few dealers have pushed me towards the 18 and 24 so maybe they have access to them, but I can't seem to get pricing, let alone see a 14.

The 14 is a no starter when compared to what builders like RS have been producing for years. Just nothing smart about it, the kit, the systems ....

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I called Beneteau USA to get pricing on the 14, but they said they leave that up to the dealers. One dealer emailed me a recommended pricing list, which showed it at about $16,000, but some of the dealers on Yachtworld are asking far more than that. I don't think that Beneteau dealers are particularly interested in selling a dinghy, LOL. If the boat ever had a chance here, the Melges 15, regardless of its own merits, has probably ended that. 

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  • 1 month later...

I believe  the new version of the First 27 with Aluminium rig, and Diesel Engine will be launched soon. This will be a bit like touring on a sports motorbike. Interesting to see how that goes. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 3:03 PM, lafish said:

I called Beneteau USA to get pricing on the 14, but they said they leave that up to the dealers. One dealer emailed me a recommended pricing list, which showed it at about $16,000, but some of the dealers on Yachtworld are asking far more than that. I don't think that Beneteau dealers are particularly interested in selling a dinghy, LOL. If the boat ever had a chance here, the Melges 15, regardless of its own merits, has probably ended that. 

I had a very similar experience, but couldn't even get far enough to get a price. The closest I got was a thinly veiled "show up with cash and I'll find a 14 for you" type statement and a "get enough people to order so we can fill a container and then let's talk" response from another.  At that point, I looked at the Melges 15 site and VX Evo site again.  Pricing: check, options: check, detailed information: check, easy to buy: check

I can understand that the gross margins on a $16k dinghy may not justify the time and effort required to sell them when your dealership is oriented around $200k-$600k+ boats, but if that's the case and you don't want to do anything differently to move the dinghies, drop it from the product line.  After the ridiculous process I went through trying to get pricing for the 14, I am very reluctant to buy any of their larger boats.  Maybe the idea is that larger boat buyers don't buy dinghies too.

Regardless of capabilities, the M15 and Evo win just because they're easier to procure.

 

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Not sure you guys understand the relationship between the manufacturers and the dealers.  The dealer is a separate business entity, hence the ability to “set their own price” while also having no real say on what products get made.  Sure they can offer input “many of our long term clients want a boat like xyz” but big Beneteau decides what it’s going to build...

 

So it’s easy to see the situation where Bene decides to build the 14, yet US Dealer decide it way too low an ROI to make any real effort to sell them...

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6 hours ago, Crash said:

Not sure you guys understand the relationship between the manufacturers and the dealers.  The dealer is a separate business entity, hence the ability to “set their own price” while also having no real say on what products get made.  Sure they can offer input “many of our long term clients want a boat like xyz” but big Beneteau decides what it’s going to build...

 

So it’s easy to see the situation where Bene decides to build the 14, yet US Dealer decide it way too low an ROI to make any real effort to sell them...

Not much confusion about that.  My point about Big Beneteau was that if they're not going to do anything to incent existing dealers to sell the product and if they are unable to find an appropriate channel to the sell the product due to business, legal, or other constraints, it seems foolish to maintain the product and continue advertising it. The upsell to an 18 is roughly double the price and unlikely to be successful.

 

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Ah, sorry I misunderstood...

I think the 14 was really not built for the US Market, hence the "get enough orders, and we'll put them in a container and send it over."  Otherwise, they (Big beneteau) are likely happen to just market it in Europe...

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4 hours ago, Crash said:

Ah, sorry I misunderstood...

I think the 14 was really not built for the US Market, hence the "get enough orders, and we'll put them in a container and send it over."  Otherwise, they (Big beneteau) are likely happen to just market it in Europe...

The large problem being that I don't have enough friends to get a second order, let alone fill a container.

 

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On 1/10/2021 at 9:40 AM, Crash said:

Not sure you guys understand the relationship between the manufacturers and the dealers.  The dealer is a separate business entity, hence the ability to “set their own price” while also having no real say on what products get made.  Sure they can offer input “many of our long term clients want a boat like xyz” but big Beneteau decides what it’s going to build...

 

So it’s easy to see the situation where Bene decides to build the 14, yet US Dealer decide it way too low an ROI to make any real effort to sell them...

Is this going to be like GM buying Saab?

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Great analogy.  Yea, probably.  Unfortunately, like for SAAB I'd guess...

Though Mazda got out from under Ford, and is still alive, so who knows?

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3 hours ago, Qingdaosog said:

https://www.beneteau.com/en/first-new/first-27-new

 

Beneteau have published details of the new Aluminium rigged sports tourer

Interesting.  I don't envy the people who had to make all of the hard decisions to transform the boat from it's initial form to something closer to a traditional Beneteau  without losing too much of its performance oriented roots.

My recollection of the original is far from perfect, but it looks like in addition to the spar changes, it now has a fixed keel with bulb vs. swing keel, inboard motor vs. outboard, enclosed marine head vs. porta-potty/bucket, possibly lazy jacks on the main, and likely more changes.

Best of luck to them.  I hope the formula is successful.

 

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It’s seems sad to us racers but that’s not their  market.  I think their market for this boat is to be a more performance oriented Hunter or Catalina with the ability to trailer sail or at least transport it to other locations. 

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3 hours ago, K9u20 said:

It’s seems sad to us racers but that’s not their  market.  I think their market for this boat is to be a more performance oriented Hunter or Catalina with the ability to trailer sail or at least transport it to other locations. 

If you compare this to the Catalina 275 Sport, it seems like the Beneteau/Seascape 27 would be infinitely more fun. Hopefully those in that market segment get a look at the Beneteau and we see a lot more them.

 

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4 hours ago, JL92S said:

You can still buy the First 24SE ‘Seascape Edition’ which remains mostly unchanged from the Seascape 27

With the same rating issues. 

Will the revised 27 rate any better? It's rating will be lower but i guess it still won't win any handicap races

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8 hours ago, PurpleOnion said:

Interesting.  I don't envy the people who had to make all of the hard decisions to transform the boat from it's initial form to something closer to a traditional Beneteau  without losing too much of its performance oriented roots.

My recollection of the original is far from perfect, but it looks like in addition to the spar changes, it now has a fixed keel with bulb vs. swing keel, inboard motor vs. outboard, enclosed marine head vs. porta-potty/bucket, possibly lazy jacks on the main, and likely more changes.

Best of luck to them.  I hope the formula is successful.

 

I believe that those changes will result in significantly greater number of potential buyers which is good if your goal is to sell as many boats as possible.

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Dunno if the Asia Pacific spec sheet is different to what you guys are seeing, but seems to me that it's just a case of two versions now - the First 27 with the diesel &  aluminium stick or the First 27 SE with a taller carbon fibre mast and outboard options.

 

https://www.beneteau.com/sites/default/files/public/Produit/PDF/V12751_FIRST_27_EN_light_en_0.pdf

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