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B25 musings


JimB

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

 

You are going to go through all that brain damage, not to mention at least 5k and probably more, to end up with something that will do what, be faster than other b 25's.

 

It's sort of like if woody put more make up and a new set of bolt on's on one of his n2e cougars. If you like old flabby rides, go for it.

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

It would weigh what a J-70 weighs but it wouldn't have the hull shape. B25s are ok, but not really modern sport boats. Remember that to change out that keel you will also have to do something like the Olson 30 Beam Of Death ie install a brand new ring frame around the keel/shroud area to deal with the increased righting load.

 

Don't understand the purpose of the roller furler other than to spend money. And Asso with a masthead kite would speed her up but only so much. Consider that many of the Synergy 1000s which have more modern hulls and came out with Assos originally have gone to Symmetrics simply because even their hulls could not fully take advantage of the Asso.

 

For what it would cost you to do this, if instead you simply spent it on sail inventory (new kite every 6-9mos, new jib every season, new main every other season) and paid for your crew's lunch and beer and hence got some young bucks from your sail loft that you are spending $$ with to commit to a season with you - you would do a lot better.

 

Drive the boat to its CURRENT rating.

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

 

You are going to go through all that brain damage, not to mention at least 5k and probably more, to end up with something that will do what, be faster than other b 25's.

 

It's sort of like if woody put more make up and a new set of bolt on's on one of his n2e cougars. If you like old flabby rides, go for it.

 

Now, there's an epic analogy!!!!!!!!

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

 

 

There's this guy named Jim Lee, has a boat called the Dart...Sorta already did most of what you talk about...neat little boat, lots of thoughtful updates, has struggled to gain traction/sales. See build thread on hull #3 right here on SA...

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133113

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

 

Like BB says but to put more point on it... do you want to ear the boat apart? If you increase the righting moment you will be increasing the horsepower coming from the rig (in all but light air). F=MA so the increase in stress on the hull will be much larger than the small increase in speed; are you planning on rebuilding the interior as well (which... at least in the B25s I've seen... is already kind of anemic and 20 years old too).

 

Then you will want to add a modern sail inventory... more roach to the main, big A-sail.... maybe a carbon mast, after all yoou want to go faster dammit... it's a nice boat but why not buy one of Jim Lee's Darts instead for about the same money and end up with a boat that's not going to fly apart one day soon.

 

Of course, I've always wondered what it would be like to have a catastrophic structural failure on a sailboat on a screaming reach, it could be fun if you kept out of the way of the jagged pieces and it was somebody else's boat. I'd say go for it, I might come along for the ride!

 

FB- Doug

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As per my origonal statement, I was just musing. Just fishing for the cons. No intention to actually do this. However if I were serious,I would not add anything significant to the righting moment. Just a better foil with a bulb reducing the overall weight. The rudder could use an update as well. Actually Phil's foils have already done this for a B owner.You guys are no doubt right about not bothering with an A sail.

 

I do not sail against other Bs as I have the only one in the area. My main competition are a number of Martin 242s. A well sailed martin is hard to correct on as it is so the penaltys for the mods would not be worth it anyway. But what if a couple of J 70s showed up? That is what I was musing about. :D

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

It would weigh what a J-70 weighs but it wouldn't have the hull shape. B25s are ok, but not really modern sport boats. Remember that to change out that keel you will also have to do something like the Olson 30 Beam Of Death ie install a brand new ring frame around the keel/shroud area to deal with the increased righting load.

 

Don't understand the purpose of the roller furler other than to spend money. And Asso with a masthead kite would speed her up but only so much. Consider that many of the Synergy 1000s which have more modern hulls and came out with Assos originally have gone to Symmetrics simply because even their hulls could not fully take advantage of the Asso.

 

For what it would cost you to do this, if instead you simply spent it on sail inventory (new kite every 6-9mos, new jib every season, new main every other season) and paid for your crew's lunch and beer and hence got some young bucks from your sail loft that you are spending $$ with to commit to a season with you - you would do a lot better.

 

Drive the boat to its CURRENT rating.

I agree. The first Mrs. Jones was a B25. It arrived on Mother's Day, my favorite holiday! We spend our money on sails first, no need for a roller furler as the sails aren't that big and our trim was better without, decent crew, good tactics, play to win. It is a fun boat. We did not have other B25s in town but do have a B32. Good luck and have fun.

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It's sort of like if woody put more make up and a new set of bolt on's on one of his n2e cougars. If you like old flabby rides, go for it.

 

Now, there's an epic analogy!!!!!!!!

 

8.jpg

 

 

 

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Yikes! Hey a 25ft boat with the potential to weigh 1700-1800 lbs dry cannot be a bad thing. :unsure:

 

 

 

It's sort of like if woody put more make up and a new set of bolt on's on one of his n2e cougars. If you like old flabby rides, go for it.

 

Now, there's an epic analogy!!!!!!!!

 

8.jpg

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Ok, I am ready to be roasted but here goes. Been thinking about the J70. What if I dropped the 800lb keel out of My B 25 and replaced it with a new foil. Put a 500-600 lb bulb on a 5.5 ft foil saving 200-300lbs. Put on a roller furler jib and asymetric set up. New rudder of course. Boat would probably weigh close to J70, roughly the same sail area. A potential rebirth of the origonal B25s ?

 

Didn't someone already do this, sans the roller furling?

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As per my origonal statement, I was just musing. Just fishing for the cons. No intention to actually do this. However if I were serious,I would not add anything significant to the righting moment. Just a better foil with a bulb reducing the overall weight. The rudder could use an update as well. Actually Phil's foils have already done this for a B owner.You guys are no doubt right about not bothering with an A sail.

 

I do not sail against other Bs as I have the only one in the area. My main competition are a number of Martin 242s. A well sailed martin is hard to correct on as it is so the penaltys for the mods would not be worth it anyway. But what if a couple of J 70s showed up? That is what I was musing about. :D

I wouldn't worry about the J 70's. We've been able to out pace the local J80 pretty consistently with our B in all but light air. Aren't the J guys saying the 70 should be pretty close in overall VMG to the 80? The 70 may be more of an issue, but it's fun the way you can toy with an 80 in decent breeze.

 

The boat really doesn't need much more than a penalty pole and masthead kite in regards to turboing. Rudder upgrade is worthwhile if you're uncomfortable with random round ups that seem to start around 14 knots of boat speed. We still run the original rudder and deal with the occasional vroom splat.

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As per my origonal statement, I was just musing. Just fishing for the cons. No intention to actually do this. However if I were serious,I would not add anything significant to the righting moment. Just a better foil with a bulb reducing the overall weight. The rudder could use an update as well. Actually Phil's foils have already done this for a B owner.You guys are no doubt right about not bothering with an A sail.

 

I do not sail against other Bs as I have the only one in the area. My main competition are a number of Martin 242s. A well sailed martin is hard to correct on as it is so the penaltys for the mods would not be worth it anyway. But what if a couple of J 70s showed up? That is what I was musing about. :D

I wouldn't worry about the J 70's. We've been able to out pace the local J80 pretty consistently with our B in all but light air. Aren't the J guys saying the 70 should be pretty close in overall VMG to the 80? The 70 may be more of an issue, but it's fun the way you can toy with an 80 in decent breeze.

 

The boat really doesn't need much more than a penalty pole and masthead kite in regards to turboing. Rudder upgrade is worthwhile if you're uncomfortable with random round ups that seem to start around 14 knots of boat speed. We still run the original rudder and deal with the occasional vroom splat.

Actually we just murder our local J80 as well. Another J80 has arrived at a neighbouring club. It will be interesting to see if this one will give us a better run.

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