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The problem for you is you're using a 4.5 year old sail which, even being as charitable as possible to your treatment of the sail, stopped being fast approximately 2.5 years ago. 

Thanks for answering those points. Somewhere in the thread I thought I saw headroom addresses. I see the 110-109-111 progression now for sure, but each boats' target market seemed to have changed as

thanks.... so our goal is learning as fast as possible , sorry if we don't give the perfect picture at once, but we swim hard....and learn fast...

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Will it rub on the cabin top? I did look at it, hard to tell from the photo though...

 

I'm sure this is obvious but it's a lot easier and weight friendlier to sheet from the rail... Bummer if your only option is to sheet from the primaries...

 

Nix the padeye and Install a lopez block just aft of it on the side deck and cross sheet?

 

I dunno, just throwing ideas out there...

Lots of comments about cross sheeting ... my bet, what ever method the winner used will be the "best way"

post-66960-0-99731400-1396303065_thumb.jpg

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So we had our first training with the whole crew this weekend

Infuckers? I would opt for a tighter angle, and maybe more twist if necessary, for the jib. Close hauled base setting should be at coach roof or handrail = sheeting angle of 6-7 degrees. Harder for the driver to keep pace but you'll point much higher and be able to press for speed.

 

What speed did you have upwind? I would aim for 6.6-6.7 this year. 6.8 next :D

 

Looks fun. Keep it up!

 

 

As we are used to overlapping genoas we have already a lot of questions, Does any one have good links , tricks for the perfect Inhauler Trim ?

post-66960-0-52061100-1396332712_thumb.jpg

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So we had our first training with the whole crew this weekend

Infuckers? I would opt for a tighter angle, and maybe more twist if necessary, for the jib. Close hauled base setting should be at coach roof or handrail = sheeting angle of 6-7 degrees. Harder for the driver to keep pace but you'll point much higher and be able to press for speed. What speed did you have upwind? I would aim for 6.6-6.7 this year. 6.8 next :D Looks fun. Keep it up!
As we are used to overlapping genoas we have already a lot of questions, Does any one have good links , tricks for the perfect Inhauler Trim ?

Wow, you were busy on the J/88 front yesterday.

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Will it rub on the cabin top? I did look at it, hard to tell from the photo though...

 

I'm sure this is obvious but it's a lot easier and weight friendlier to sheet from the rail... Bummer if your only option is to sheet from the primaries...

 

Nix the padeye and Install a lopez block just aft of it on the side deck and cross sheet?

 

I dunno, just throwing ideas out there...

Lots of comments about cross sheeting ... my bet, what ever method the winner used will be the "best way"

Nice job BSP!

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Got to check out the 88 at McM Yacht yard in Mamaroneck today. Boat is awsome. How I wish I could.

What's stopping you? They take trade-ins, or if you want to sell this is prime time for buyers, and you wanted a sprit anyway...

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12 months for the next available hull. 70 grand extra on top of the trade. I could retro my boat get the sprit and still have a lot of extra change.

For less than 70k I'm sure you can retro a sprit pole very nicely and buy quite a few spinnakers. 70K buys you into a one-design class (hopefully).

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Have there been any other 88's out there that have applied and received their PHRF numbers? And where was it issued? Bill's Sock Puppet thanks for that chart a few pages ago. It would be nice to know whats going on out there...looks like No Cal was hard, the J 88 rates 69 up there!

There are finish results of 23 races for the j/88: so far I haven't seen anything to justify a 69 rating in any condition:

• Sail Newport 2013 Sail for Hope Regatta: 1 race, 4th place behind a Quest 30.

• 2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

• J-Fest Southwest Regatta 2013: 6 races, marginally faster than a J/92 (except for one race it was marginally slower)

• 2014 Key West Race Week: 8 races, was out sailed by an Olson 30 in six of those races

I've heard all the excuses: boat is new, sail ripped, went the wrong way, bad wind shift, etc: same excuses that all of their competition had. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the boats were crewed with notable sailors, crews that have sailed with each other before.

 

I'd like to hear the Nor Cal PHRF Committee's justification for the 69 rating, let me guess:

 

• we've been doing this for years, we know what we are doing,

• we have yacht designers we consult with, they know what they are talking about,

• we'll let them sail with the 69 rating for a while, ... if it's wrong we can always correct it, no big deal

JBoats has a fabulous marketing department. The PHRF committees only hear terms like: speedster, composites, fast, performance, planing, optimized. Then they overlook the more mundane phrases: seats with backrests, smallest jboat on the market with an inboard engine, comfortable to overnight in, another classic J-boat.

 

Essentially the Nor Cal PHRF committee bought the marketing hook, line and sinker. Apparently their yacht design consultants are better than Rod Johnstone, Designer. ( see J-Sailing PHRF Performance Sailing Analysis )

 

- TOP SECRET - Northern California PHRF Meeting Notes - TOP SECRET -

 

Meeting Minutes: The Committee feels unable to determine a potential speed of the J88.

 

Process taken: start with LOA in decimeters, comb thru literature and sailing blogs on the internet, subtract 3 seconds for each even remotely sounding peppy adjective used to describe the boat in marketing.

 

Highly Scientific Empirical Rating Calculation Based on Marketing Research:

 

88 (LOA) - 3 (speedster) - 3 (composites) - 3 (fast) - 3 (performance) - 3 (planing) - 3 (optimized) - 1 (for good measure) = 69 PHRF

 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This quote, including any calculations, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise be protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

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- TOP SECRET - Northern California PHRF Meeting Notes - TOP SECRET -

 

Meeting Minutes: The Committee feels unable to determine a potential speed of the J88.

 

Process taken: start with LOA in decimeters, comb thru literature and sailing blogs on the internet, subtract 3 seconds for each even remotely sounding peppy adjective used to describe the boat in marketing.Highly Scientific Empirical Rating Calculation Based on Marketing Research:

 

88 (LOA) - 3 (speedster) - 3 (composites) - 3 (fast) - 3 (performance) - 3 (planing) - 3 (optimized) - 1 (for good measure) = 69 PHRF

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This quote, including any calculations, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise be protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Thanks, I always wondered how it was done. ;-)

 

I guess CRW and Rod J just used the shorthand version:

 

88 (LOA) - 1 (for good measure) = 87 PHRF

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• 2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

 

Just a small FYI for anyone trying to extrapolate possible PHRF ratings from this relative to the 105. Worth remembering that the 105s on this side of the pond have big masthead kites and sail 8 up in inshore mode.

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• 2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

 

Just a small FYI for anyone trying to extrapolate possible PHRF ratings from this relative to the 105. Worth remembering that the 105s on this side of the pond have big masthead kites and sail 8 up in inshore mode.

Thanks Flaming, I did not know that. Most of PHRF rating comparisons are apples to oranges anyway. Each locality makes up their own set of rules, often it seems they're only similarity is the name.

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IMG 1846

IMG 1843

 

So here our ORC measurements, in short we have to sail very fast ;)

 

Thanks again for al the good tips, in a week we have our first regatta of the season, that will be probably hard, we will sail in a very good class , but we will see. These ORC measurements are the first and there is a lot to improve, loose the big top of the main, bowsprit not max ..... First we wil sail, test , after that we will find a way to get a better rating .

 

also wondering what the top speed of a J/88 is at this point :https://www.facebook.com/insails.comj88/posts/585771618207738

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As it seems ORC is heavy, but we already know that we can change a lot in the sails measurments, In ha half year we have planed to build a ORC set. For now next week we have the first regatta and at that point al the yachts have the new ORC certificate.

That would be the firts time we can see if the system is favorable, we are also working on an IRC raiting but unfortunatly there was some delay.

At this point we have to ba as fast as a J109........

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Have there been any other 88's out there that have applied and received their PHRF numbers? And where was it issued? Bill's Sock Puppet thanks for that chart a few pages ago. It would be nice to know whats going on out there...looks like No Cal was hard, the J 88 rates 69 up there!

There are finish results of 23 races for the j/88: so far I haven't seen anything to justify a 69 rating in any condition:

 

 

 

Sail Newport 2013 Sail for Hope Regatta: 1 race, 4th place behind a Quest 30.

2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

J-Fest Southwest Regatta 2013: 6 races, marginally faster than a J/92 (except for one race it was marginally slower)

2014 Key West Race Week: 8 races, was out sailed by an Olson 30 in six of those races

I've heard all the excuses: boat is new, sail ripped, went the wrong way, bad wind shift, etc: same excuses that all of their competition had. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the boats were crewed with notable sailors, crews that have sailed with each other before.

 

I'd like to hear the Nor Cal PHRF Committee's justification for the 69 rating, let me guess:

 

 

 

 

we've been doing this for years, we know what we are doing,

we have yacht designers we consult with, they know what they are talking about,

we'll let them sail with the 69 rating for a while, ... if it's wrong we can always correct it, no big deal

JBoats has a fabulous marketing department. The PHRF committees only hear terms like: speedster, composites, fast, performance, planing, optimized. Then they overlook the more mundane phrases: seats with backrests, smallest jboat on the market with an inboard engine, comfortable to overnight in, another classic J-boat.

 

Essentially the Nor Cal PHRF committee bought the marketing hook, line and sinker. Apparently their yacht design consultants are better than Rod Johnstone, Designer. ( see J-Sailing PHRF Performance Sailing Analysis )

 

- TOP SECRET - Northern California PHRF Meeting Notes - TOP SECRET -

 

Meeting Minutes: The Committee feels unable to determine a potential speed of the J88.

 

Process taken: start with LOA in decimeters, comb thru literature and sailing blogs on the internet, subtract 3 seconds for each even remotely sounding peppy adjective used to describe the boat in marketing.Highly Scientific Empirical Rating Calculation Based on Marketing Research:

 

88 (LOA) - 3 (speedster) - 3 (composites) - 3 (fast) - 3 (performance) - 3 (planing) - 3 (optimized) - 1 (for good measure) = 69 PHRF

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This quote, including any calculations, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise be protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

BSP...that was frickin hillarious. Wonder if waving dead chickens or Ouija boards are also part of the calculation. I spoke to one notable member of the PHRF committee who commented "we're doing you guys a favor, if the 88 rates slower than the 105 you won't sell any boats ;-)"

 

How does THAT work?

 

Maybe they were looking at this pic?

 

post-23955-0-60075700-1397487174_thumb.jpg

 

In any case, we've just wrapped up the Strictly Sail Boatshow over the past weekend. Had TREMENDOUS reception for the 88. We're clamoring for boats now HUGE interest. We're delivering a new boat to an owner next week...another sold one coming in May...first available boat we have is August. After this weekend I now have no doubt that the 88 will become a great OD class on the Bay. It checks too so many boxes on sailors wishlist. Best news was that we'll get access to one for Demos starting May 15 :-) We'll be roadshowing it at several beer cans throughout the season.

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2nd- big regatta for the J88 suprised they are still placing in the mid to lower half. What do we think the factors are? Bad ratings? New boat owners and crew? No full staked pro factory boat? The sales numbers are great, but just disappointed with results thus far I guess...

 

Any thoughts?

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I gues, - new boat , not that much sailing already , not that much regatta's sailed at this moment. Al the raiting systems as i understand ar not that easy, but the J88 can sail hard . give it a half year . and than there are more J/88 sailing so more experience.

This forum is great for learning so lets work al to get the J/88 in front of the field.

I am sure that the J/88 can win races .

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Comparing the J/88 ORC VPP data with that on the Andrews 28 Club ORC cert (submitted to the NCPHRF Committee) with those of the J/88, 69 does seem a little harsh! A28 was rated 81. No gift, but roughly in line with three other PHRF regions (BC, LIS and Chesapeake Bay) relative rankings. Of course, I can stand up below and some have said the high freeboard looks slow compared to the J's sexy lines. That should be worth some rating hit, right? We'll see....

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2nd- big regatta for the J88 suprised they are still placing in the mid to lower half. What do we think the factors are? Bad ratings? New boat owners and crew? No full staked pro factory boat? The sales numbers are great, but just disappointed with results thus far I guess...

 

Any thoughts?

I'm not at all surprised given the conditions and the section they were in. Pretty typical when small boats go up against lots of waterline, happens in PHRF all the time, that's why OD continues to gain in popularity.
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,

2nd- big regatta for the J88 suprised they are still placing in the mid to lower half. What do we think the factors are? Bad ratings? New boat owners and crew? No full staked pro factory boat? The sales numbers are great, but just disappointed with results thus far I guess...

 

Any thoughts?

I was not there (at CRW) but I noticed looking at the PHRF results across all 3 racing fleets that the results generally equaled the ratings assigned. Fasted rated boats in each class did well, lower rated boats were proportionally lower down in the fleet. There were, of course, some exceptions, but still...I wonder about the conditions that helped create those results.

 

Secondly, (as I said in another thread), results are both boat and crew dependent. I remember when I first got my new J/109 (hull 58). If anyone was trying to analyze the J/109s performance, and they used my results in my first bigger regatta, well lets be charitable and say they to were at best "midpack" finishes. And it sure wasn't the boat, as we raced against "Tastes like Chicken" another 109 that did great and won the class. Last race of the last day we got a 2nd in class, and beat Chicken boat for boat. When we got called up for the individual race awards, they said "And even the slow 109 did well today..."

 

I think one of the great attributes of the 88 is that it appeals to the more amateur/Corinthian sailors. I love to have one to race with my friends and family. And we'd be midpack at best. Or you can go the Farr 280 route and put a bunch of serious pros on the boat and lineup a string of bullets....

 

Very impressive debut of the 280 by the way...though I think that boat appeals to a different kind of sailor then the 88 does. I'd consider buying an 88 if I had the cash, but as cool as the 280 is, I wouldn't consider buying it....

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Comparing the J/88 ORC VPP data with that on the Andrews 28 Club ORC cert (submitted to the NCPHRF Committee) with those of the J/88, 69 does seem a little harsh! A28 was rated 81. No gift, but roughly in line with three other PHRF regions (BC, LIS and Chesapeake Bay) relative rankings. Of course, I can stand up below and some have said the high freeboard looks slow compared to the J's sexy lines. That should be worth some rating hit, right? We'll see....

Is the beast here yet?

If so, have you had it out on the Bay?

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Still at Betts being prepared for Pac Cup...lots to do to meet the requirements, and rather have it ready to sail when she arrives. I'll be happy to take you out when she does - I'll be doing a lot of training singlehanded.

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2nd- big regatta for the J88 suprised they are still placing in the mid to lower half. What do we think the factors are? Bad ratings? New boat owners and crew? No full staked pro factory boat? The sales numbers are great, but just disappointed with results thus far I guess...

 

Any thoughts?

Probably just lack of practice ... not a whole lot of races between KWRW and CRW.

 

Using the results from Sail Newport, jFest, GHWS, KWRW, and CRW is not useful for basing your decision to purchase a j88. If the PHRF committee uses these results to establish a slow rating w/o doing any research as to the circumstances of the results, so be it. :rolleyes:

 

For us, it will be a steep learning curve moving from a 30 y.o. modified MORC design to the j88.

 

Its going to be a fun boat to sail, we are looking forward to racing it.

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J 88 Owners - did any of you employ a surveyor to inspect your vessel while under construction (hull lay up, deck layup etc)? If so, who did you use and were you satisfied?

 

thanks

Is this normal practice for a production boat? I ask because it is the first time I have ever heard of it.

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J 88 Owners - did any of you employ a surveyor to inspect your vessel while under construction (hull lay up, deck layup etc)? If so, who did you use and were you satisfied?

 

thanks

 

I didnt employ a surveyor. But i did visit the factory when the j/88 was in production. I saw hull 3 , 4 and 5. Not mine.

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J 88 Owners - did any of you employ a surveyor to inspect your vessel while under construction (hull lay up, deck layup etc)? If so, who did you use and were you satisfied?

 

thanks

a surveyor will add a lot to the cost and will delay the delivery.

 

We went to CCF Composits for a tour, they are very organized and professional, it was worth the trip.

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Finally got to sail a J/88, and overall it's everything I hoped it would be. The list of positive attributes is truly too long to list, but there are a few "other" observations based on my first outing:

- It's not as stiff as I hoped with the long keel (for a 29 footer), the boat wants plenty of crew weight.

- The spectra section (where the ring rides) of the inhauler kept hanging up on the vang cleat. Tempted to turn the vang end for end (cleat at top), but hopefully there's a better solution.

- Most on the boat felt the primary winches are one size too small. Certainly manageable, but more load than you might expect for a small boat jib. They can't be changed without major mods as they sit down in a molded recess in the coaming.

- The backstay control line arrangement was the only actual disappointment. Installed exactly as shown in the manual with supplied lines (includes two upper cascade lines of fixed length/eye splices both ends) there wasn't enough throw to bend the mast at all, and the backstay will stretch some in time making it worse! We drastically shortened one of the cascade lines, enabling us to at least bend the (stiff) mast a little. But with the backstay pulled down hard, rudder movement is noticeably restricted. Mostly not a problem steering until you want to make a hard turn, like maneuvering at the start or docking. Of course you could release the backstay for hard turns, but shouldn't have to IMO. Geometry permitting, it will be interesting to see if owners are tempted to put padeyes out at the "corners" where the open transom turns up, to widen the backstay control line triangle. The supplied lines might even be the right lengths with the wide triangle. But I assume that will be an illegal mod for OD, should OD materialize.

 

YMMV. Again, overall the positives far outweigh any negatives.

j88-newport-aft-1.jpg

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Have there been any other 88's out there that have applied and received their PHRF numbers? And where was it issued? Bill's Sock Puppet thanks for that chart a few pages ago. It would be nice to know whats going on out there...looks like No Cal was hard, the J 88 rates 69 up there!

There are finish results of 23 races for the j/88: so far I haven't seen anything to justify a 69 rating in any condition:

• Sail Newport 2013 Sail for Hope Regatta: 1 race, 4th place behind a Quest 30.

• 2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

• J-Fest Southwest Regatta 2013: 6 races, marginally faster than a J/92 (except for one race it was marginally slower)

• 2014 Key West Race Week: 8 races, was out sailed by an Olson 30 in six of those races

I've heard all the excuses: boat is new, sail ripped, went the wrong way, bad wind shift, etc: same excuses that all of their competition had. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the boats were crewed with notable sailors, crews that have sailed with each other before.

 

I'd like to hear the Nor Cal PHRF Committee's justification for the 69 rating, let me guess:

 

• we've been doing this for years, we know what we are doing,

• we have yacht designers we consult with, they know what they are talking about,

• we'll let them sail with the 69 rating for a while, ... if it's wrong we can always correct it, no big deal

JBoats has a fabulous marketing department. The PHRF committees only hear terms like: speedster, composites, fast, performance, planing, optimized. Then they overlook the more mundane phrases: seats with backrests, smallest jboat on the market with an inboard engine, comfortable to overnight in, another classic J-boat.

 

Essentially the Nor Cal PHRF committee bought the marketing hook, line and sinker. Apparently their yacht design consultants are better than Rod Johnstone, Designer. ( see J-Sailing PHRF Performance Sailing Analysis )

 

> - TOP SECRET - Northern California PHRF Meeting Notes - TOP SECRET -

 

Meeting Minutes: The Committee feels unable to determine a potential speed of the J88.

 

Process taken: start with LOA in decimeters, comb thru literature and sailing blogs on the internet, subtract 3 seconds for each even remotely sounding peppy adjective used to describe the boat in marketing.

 

Highly Scientific Empirical Rating Calculation Based on Marketing Research:

 

88 (LOA) - 3 (speedster) - 3 (composites) - 3 (fast) - 3 (performance) - 3 (planing) - 3 (optimized) - 1 (for good measure) = 69 PHRF

 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This quote, including any calculations, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise be protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

Just go to the PHRF comm in Western LIS with your sailmaker and cry they will give you 6 sec.

 

Like I said way back in this thread, it is going to be another 29 foot J boat designed 30+ years after my J29 that I will owe time too once the hacks get done sailing it a few times. It will be just like the J92

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Have there been any other 88's out there that have applied and received their PHRF numbers? And where was it issued? Bill's Sock Puppet thanks for that chart a few pages ago. It would be nice to know whats going on out there...looks like No Cal was hard, the J 88 rates 69 up there!

There are finish results of 23 races for the j/88: so far I haven't seen anything to justify a 69 rating in any condition:

• Sail Newport 2013 Sail for Hope Regatta: 1 race, 4th place behind a Quest 30.

• 2013 Garmin-Hamble Winter Series: 8 races, beaten by a J/105 three times.

• J-Fest Southwest Regatta 2013: 6 races, marginally faster than a J/92 (except for one race it was marginally slower)

• 2014 Key West Race Week: 8 races, was out sailed by an Olson 30 in six of those races

I've heard all the excuses: boat is new, sail ripped, went the wrong way, bad wind shift, etc: same excuses that all of their competition had. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the boats were crewed with notable sailors, crews that have sailed with each other before.

 

I'd like to hear the Nor Cal PHRF Committee's justification for the 69 rating, let me guess:

 

• we've been doing this for years, we know what we are doing,

• we have yacht designers we consult with, they know what they are talking about,

• we'll let them sail with the 69 rating for a while, ... if it's wrong we can always correct it, no big deal

JBoats has a fabulous marketing department. The PHRF committees only hear terms like: speedster, composites, fast, performance, planing, optimized. Then they overlook the more mundane phrases: seats with backrests, smallest jboat on the market with an inboard engine, comfortable to overnight in, another classic J-boat.

 

Essentially the Nor Cal PHRF committee bought the marketing hook, line and sinker. Apparently their yacht design consultants are better than Rod Johnstone, Designer. ( see J-Sailing PHRF Performance Sailing Analysis )<

br />

> - TOP SECRET - Northern California PHRF Meeting Notes - TOP SECRET -

 

Meeting Minutes: The Committee feels unable to determine a potential speed of the J88.

 

Process taken: start with LOA in decimeters, comb thru literature and sailing blogs on the internet, subtract 3 seconds for each even remotely sounding peppy adjective used to describe the boat in marketing.

 

Highly Scientific Empirical Rating Calculation Based on Marketing Research:

 

88 (LOA) - 3 (speedster) - 3 (composites) - 3 (fast) - 3 (performance) - 3 (planing) - 3 (optimized) - 1 (for good measure) = 69 PHRF

 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This quote, including any calculations, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise be protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail a

nd destroy all copies of the original message.

Just go to the PHRF comm in Western LIS with your sailmaker and cry they will give you 6 sec.

 

Like I said way back in this thread, it is going to be another 29 foot J boat designed 30+ years after my J29 that I will owe time too once the hacks get done sailing it a few times. It will be just like the J92

 

phrf 87 YRALIS i see

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Like I said way back in this thread, it is going to be another 29 foot J boat designed 30+ years after my J29 that I will owe time too once the hacks get done sailing it a few times. It will be just like the J92

Indeed it will be difficult to beat your J29, especially if you don't enter the regattas ... ;)

 

Finally got to sail a J/88, and overall it's everything I hoped it would be. The list of positive attributes is truly too long to list, but there are a few "other" observations based on my first outing:

- It's not as stiff as I hoped with the long keel (for a 29 footer), the boat wants plenty of crew weight.

- The spectra section (where the ring rides) of the inhauler kept hanging up on the vang cleat. Tempted to turn the vang end for end (cleat at top), but hopefully there's a better solution.

- Most on the boat felt the primary winches are one size too small. Certainly manageable, but more load than you might expect for a small boat jib. They can't be changed without major mods as they sit down in a molded recess in the coaming.

- The backstay control line arrangement was the only actual disappointment. Installed exactly as shown in the manual with supplied lines (includes two upper cascade lines of fixed length/eye splices both ends) there wasn't enough throw to bend the mast at all, and the backstay will stretch some in time making it worse! We drastically shortened one of the cascade lines, enabling us to at least bend the (stiff) mast a little. But with the backstay pulled down hard, rudder movement is noticeably restricted. Mostly not a problem steering until you want to make a hard turn, like maneuvering at the start or docking. Of course you could release the backstay for hard turns, but shouldn't have to IMO. Geometry permitting, it will be interesting to see if owners are tempted to put padeyes out at the "corners" where the open transom turns up, to widen the backstay control line triangle. The supplied lines might even be the right lengths with the wide triangle. But I assume that will be an illegal mod for OD, should OD materialize.

 

YMMV. Again, overall the positives far outweigh any negatives.

Went out on Saturday for the first time, it's a fun boat to sail. Our first race will be next weekend.

 

• We did not have any issues with the inhauler, perhaps we had it rigged differently.

 

• Nobody complained about the size of the primary winches, we had plenty of strength on the other end of the sheets, perhaps they didn't want to sound like wimps. It's a pretty small jib compared to what we are used to so it came in pretty quick.

 

• The backstay, when it is tight, does restrict tiller movement. When we were maneuvering I just released it. We shortened the primary cascade about 8" which might be too much, we'll see after next weekend.

 

We started out the day with rig base settings of 40 - 15 - 20 (Cap - D1 - D2) on the Loos PT-2 We had an issue with too much bend and needed to tighten D1 and D2 a bit. Bend really depends on the sailmaker and the whim of the sailmaker when they cut your sails.

 

 

Anybody else find adjusting the cap shrouds difficult due the the proximity of the stanchions?

 

 

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Anybody else find adjusting the cap shrouds difficult due the the proximity of the stanchions?

+1. Absolutely. Try it on a J/88 with P&S gates, even more difficult thanks to an additional fore-aft stanchion brace!

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Probably a good thing in your case :P

 

Like I said way back in this thread, it is going to be another 29 foot J boat designed 30+ years after my J29 that I will owe time too once the hacks get done sailing it a few times. It will be just like the J92

Indeed it will be difficult to beat your J29, especially if you don't enter the regattas ... ;)

>Finally got to sail a J/88, and overall it's everything I hoped it would be. The list of positive attributes is truly too long to list, but there are a few "other" observations based on my first outing:
- It's not as stiff as I hoped with the long keel (for a 29 footer), the boat wants plenty of crew weight.
- The spectra section (where the ring rides) of the inhauler kept hanging up on the vang cleat. Tempted to turn the vang end for end (cleat at top), but hopefully there's a better solution.
- Most on the boat felt the primary winches are one size too small. Certainly manageable, but more load than you might expect for a small boat jib. They can't be changed without major mods as they sit down in a molded recess in the coaming.
- The backstay control line arrangement was the only actual disappointment. Installed exactly as shown in the manual with supplied lines (includes two upper cascade lines of fixed length/eye splices both ends) there wasn't enough throw to bend the mast at all, and the backstay will stretch some in time making it worse! We drastically shortened one of the cascade lines, enabling us to at least bend the (stiff) mast a little. But with the backstay pulled down hard, rudder movement is noticeably restricted. Mostly not a problem steering until you want to make a hard turn, like maneuvering at the start or docking. Of course you could release the backstay for hard turns, but shouldn't have to IMO. Geometry permitting, it will be interesting to see if owners are tempted to put padeyes out at the "corners" where the open transom turns up, to widen the backstay control line triangle. The supplied lines might even be the right lengths with the wide triangle. But I assume that will be an illegal mod for OD, should OD materialize.

YMMV. Again, overall the positives far outweigh any negatives.

Went out on Saturday for the first time, it's a fun boat to sail. Our first race will be next weekend.

 

• We did not have any issues with the inhauler, perhaps we had it rigged differently.

 

• Nobody complained about the size of the primary winches, we had plenty of strength on the other end of the sheets, perhaps they didn't want to sound like wimps. It's a pretty small jib compared to what we are used to so it came in pretty quick.

 

• The backstay, when it is tight, does restrict tiller movement. When we were maneuvering I just released it. We shortened the primary cascade about 8" which might be too much, we'll see after next weekend.

 

We started out the day with rig base settings of 40 - 15 - 20 (Cap - D1 - D2) on the Loos PT-2 We had an issue with too much bend and needed to tighten D1 and D2 a bit. Bend really depends on the sailmaker and the whim of the sailmaker when they cut your sails.

 


Anybody else find adjusting the cap shrouds difficult due the the proximity of the stanchions?

 

 

 

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Dr Laura will be racing hers in N2Es!

Crazy 88 (Dr. Laura) did well in the Tower Race, too well I guess, PHRF SO CAL gave her a 6 sec rating hit.

Dr.L has some talent on the boat. She's not a bad stick and surrounds herself with outstanding sailors.

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Geez Lefty,

I think you've become the pot that's calling the kettle "black" Last I knew, what makes America great is that everyone is free to voice their opinion. If sailing can censor her by not letting her participate, than it can censor anyone. That's discrimination. It goes both ways..

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Geez Lefty,

I think you've become the pot that's calling the kettle "black" Last I knew, what makes America great is that everyone is free to voice their opinion. If sailing can censor her by not letting her participate, than it can censor anyone. That's discrimination. It goes both ways..

free_speech.png

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Geez Lefty,

I think you've become the pot that's calling the kettle "black" Last I knew, what makes America great is that everyone is free to voice their opinion. If sailing can censor her by not letting her participate, than it can censor anyone. That's discrimination. It goes both ways..

free_speech.png

I think you missed the point. I wasn't saying her views are right, wrong or otherwise. I was trying to point out that by expressing a hatred of her, you are dong exactly the same thing you accuse her of...

 

Boycott her show by all means...

 

Boycott the races she participates in...get other racers to protest by boycotting. But to say there is no room for her in "our" sport is discrimination, pure and simple.

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My father and I were at a regatta together when I was 15. I was pretty smug as my dad and I were sailing on a hot boat leading our class. I looked at our main competition (it was the last day of regatta) all dressed in team uniforms stretching and doing excersises on the front lawn of the yacht club. These guys were so over the top, on land and holly S**** on the water. I told my father what I thought of them, and how great it would be if they just got into a diffrent class. He calmly looked at me, and said something I will never forget and often share with people.

 

Sailing should be an all inclusive sport, you may not agree or like those guys, but be open and respect them for the sport and for the sports sake. And if anything else, be entertained by it all.

 

Now we are on a J 88 thread. And the bashing starts. Again.

 

I've seen Dr L new boat, it's beautiful and has many of the things talked about on this thread, and more. Ive been very tempted to share pics, but I won't.

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When you make a successful career out of exploiting and inciting hatred towards people you lose your humanity in my books.

 

Disagree if you want but that's that.

Thought about taking this discussion to PA where it belongs? Or at least giving it a rest here now that you've shared your POV several times?
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When you make a successful career out of exploiting and inciting hatred towards people you lose your humanity in my books.

 

Disagree if you want but that's that.

That's That, eh ? You are hilarious how myopic you sound.

 

But who cares about "your books" ? You just sound like a fool.

 

Would her opinions be more palatable to you if her career WEREN'T "successful" ?

 

Wouldn't YOUR STATEMENT that "There's no place for her hatred in our sport." include ANY self-awareness that perhaps you might make some compassionate accommodation for someone you DON'T agree with ?

 

I haven't heard a minute of her jabber in a decade, at least - but back when I did I never found it to be HATEFUL - sure, she says some wrong-headed crap about gays a such - which are largely repudiated by the majority of modern American society, but most of her schtick was "stop sleeping around and get your act together" - which is hardly HATEFUL, heck - it's advice that needs to be heard by a LOT of people.

 

But not you, nope - in your self-anointed role as Protector of the sport you managed to Hate someone for saying things you don't like...welcome to the land of the crazy if you don't see the irony. And take it to PA.

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I've seen Dr L new boat, it's beautiful and has many of the things talked about on this thread, and more. Ive been very tempted to share pics, but I won't.

Please share! More pictures the better!

Agreed, let's get the thread back on track and see some pics of her boat. If anything like her last few I bet its tricked out.

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Yes.

 

It is telling that someone that can afford bigger/fancier/custom boats chose this size from this maker, isn't it ?

 

Wonder if it was so she could Go Sailing easier, without needing to call in a big crew, or if she thinks this will be The Next Big Thing in OD - where she might sail on a 'level basis', or if she just likes JBoats and figured it'd be a safe buy ?

 

Either way, hope she enjoys it and can sail in a fleet free from Hatred of the First Amendment.

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I do hope you are aware that the majority of people here have no idea or interest in who you talking about. Proper random!

 

So any more news of J88 action in Europe/UK? Are they exporting yet, or are there plans for the French factory to start building?

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I do hope you are aware that the majority of people here have no idea or interest in who you talking about. Proper random!

 

So any more news of J88 action in Europe/UK? Are they exporting yet, or are there plans for the French factory to start building?

French factory rushed off their feet at the moment, but trying their hardest to get 88s out the factory. The one and only 88 in the uk is an American boat but European boats should be hitting the water soon

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French factory rushed off their feet at the moment, but trying their hardest to get 88s out the factory. The one and only 88 in the uk is an American boat but European boats should be hitting the water soon

IIRC Insails, who has posted in this thread often, has #10 in the Netherlands too, from CCF I think.

 

There are at least 24 built so far, but I think I've heard the whereabouts of hulls 1,5,6,7,8,10,12,16,21 plus whatever #'s Dr L has and the Norcal boat with the harsh rating.

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French factory rushed off their feet at the moment, but trying their hardest to get 88s out the factory. The one and only 88 in the uk is an American boat but European boats should be hitting the water soon

IIRC Insails, who has posted in this thread often, has #10 in the Netherlands too, from CCF I think.

 

There are at least 24 built so far, but I think I've heard the whereabouts of hulls 1,5,6,7,8,10,12,16,21 plus whatever #'s Dr L has and the Norcal boat with the harsh rating.

It's been a few weeks since I've looked at a map of the Netherlands, I don't think it is part of the uk yet.

 

If CCF has been keeping pace of one boat per week, they should be busy building Rumble Bee (hull #29)

 

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French factory rushed off their feet at the moment, but trying their hardest to get 88s out the factory. The one and only 88 in the uk is an American boat but European boats should be hitting the water soon.

IIRC Insails, who has posted in this thread often, has #10 in the Netherlands too, from CCF I think.

There are at least 24 built so far, but I think I've heard the whereabouts of hulls 1,5,6,7,8,10,12,16,21 plus whatever #'s Dr L has and the Norcal boat with the harsh rating.

It's been a few weeks since I've looked at a map of the Netherlands, I don't think it is part of the uk yet.

 

If CCF has been keeping pace of one boat per week, they should be busy building Rumble Bee (hull #29)

Simply adding to his statement if that's OK...
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Another article/review from 'across the pond' describing how the Euro spec J/88 will differ from the US version.

 

http://www.yachtinglife.co.uk/j88-offers-more-fun-less-complication-and-less-expense/. Including this statement:

The future is likely to be one design and already two of the UK owners are driving the class. With keen owners behind it, it will happen. And for sure the five initial sales will double quickly.

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The UK article is pretty nice.

 

I wonder just how close the Selden spars are to the Halls. It'll be interesting when the J70 worlds come to the USA and see the Seldens in comparison with the Southerns.

 

It's just a matter of time and production until the J88 gains world status.

 

OK... I have to know...is the Volvo saildrive well received over in the the EU? Hate them hear because Volvo charges WAY too much for parts in the USA. Yanmars are dominating over here.

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We had our first weekend of racing: the boat is fun, we were fast but we need to figure out how to do it in the right direction.

 

12-15 gusts to 18, our finishes were dismal ...

 

Upwind we were probably sailing too high, downwind we were probably too deep: figuring out jibe angles and anticipating wind shifts at those angles proved difficult. Quite a few boat handling issues were distracting, a few equipment issues to be ironed out.

 

It must have been difficult to debut at KWRW,

I'm glad we have a week off to hopefully figure a few things out.

 

It will be a lot more fun when the other j88s in our area get out on the water.

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BSP - probably preaching to the converted, but I'd kick off going everywhere fast and throttle back and go high/deep as you figure it out.

 

Also re gybes, it would be number one on my practice list, you should be able easily to get to a position where giving loses no vmg, then you can gybe down the runs and angles and shifts then make little difference

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We had our first weekend of racing: the boat is fun, we were fast but we need to figure out how to do it in the right direction.

 

12-15 gusts to 18, our finishes were dismal ...

 

Upwind we were probably sailing too high, downwind we were probably too deep: figuring out jibe angles and anticipating wind shifts at those angles proved difficult. Quite a few boat handling issues were distracting, a few equipment issues to be ironed out.

 

It must have been difficult to debut at KWRW,

I'm glad we have a week off to hopefully figure a few things out.

 

It will be a lot more fun when the other j88s in our area get out on the water.

what is the background of your sailing team? what kind of boats were you on?

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We had our first weekend of racing: the boat is fun, we were fast but we need to figure out how to do it in the right direction.

12-15 gusts to 18, our finishes were dismal ...

Upwind we were probably sailing too high, downwind we were probably too deep: figuring out jibe angles and anticipating wind shifts at those angles proved difficult. Quite a few boat handling issues were distracting, a few equipment issues to be ironed out.

It must have been difficult to debut at KWRW,

I'm glad we have a week off to hopefully figure a few things out.

It will be a lot more fun when the other j88s in our area get out on the water.

I wonder how much longer before J/88 polars, VPPs, etc. surface. Though owners may have targets figured out by then.

 

I raced with a crew orders of magnitude better than myself. We raced with the inhaulers full on upwind, so as high as possible - right or wrong.

 

We finished within less than a minute of the other J/88 in every race, so OD, starts-strategy-tactics determined the winner...

 

We raced in similar conditions with 7, and it wasn't too many to handle the boat (the rail was crowded though).

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what is the background of your sailing team? what kind of boats were you on?

we are an owner driver, all amateur, friends and family "team." A.couple of us on board have some sportboat experience, but for the most part we are transitioning from 20 some years on a Soverel 33

pretty much the same kind of team as us . Father is the driver , rest of the team is my brothers , sister and my uncle. We are used to assym , but not to winches! The melges 24 is a very straightforward ''small'' but very powerful boat . The 88 is totally on another scale for us.

 

We almost bought a melges 32 2 years ago. So glad we waited. The 32 is scary.

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Pretty much what I'd expect, and what I've found with several past J/Sprit boats. Source article already linked in #1181 above.

Key Yachting have raced their demo J/88 in the Solent Winter Series, but only with prospective buyers and different crews and they still won a few races. It proved to be most competitive diversely in the light and strong winds. In medium breezes the 29 footer might struggle against 35 footers of the same rating, which are inherently faster upwind. The J/88 will be going upwind at 6.5kts and a bit, while the 35 footer is typically 7kts. Downwind it will be quicker, but still on an upwind downwind track the longer heavier boats may be better in the 8-15kts range. However in light airs the J/88 is great and in contrast, as soon as it is planing it is even more competitive.

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