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thought about staysail but we have only 3 halyards together , main spi and jib. and in the mast is no space for extra.

 

I wouldn't worry. Learn when keep the jib out (usually in planing conditions).

 

We had excellent payoff with the staysail on the J/109. On the J/111 we're not getting the same effect. Since the bast is further back, and the sprit is longer, it's hard to find the right spot to tack it. The main reason to run a staysail is to increase flow on the back of the main, and then you need it pretty far back. We'll experiment som more next season, but for now it's off the boat.

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The problem for you is you're using a 4.5 year old sail which, even being as charitable as possible to your treatment of the sail, stopped being fast approximately 2.5 years ago. 

Thanks for answering those points. Somewhere in the thread I thought I saw headroom addresses. I see the 110-109-111 progression now for sure, but each boats' target market seemed to have changed as

thanks.... so our goal is learning as fast as possible , sorry if we don't give the perfect picture at once, but we swim hard....and learn fast...

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TWA 80 and higher - that is not a Code 0 - that is a reaching kite

 

Congrats. Care to share the design of the reaching kite that is fast in TWA 80?

Std A7 and some A5's ( I have a North A5 that does just fine at a TWA of 80 (or a little tighter if light) - obviously A0's do fine as well

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TWA 80 and higher - that is not a Code 0 - that is a reaching kite

 

Congrats. Care to share the design of the reaching kite that is fast in TWA 80?

Std A7 and some A5's ( I have a North A5 that does just fine at a TWA of 80 (or a little tighter if light) - obviously A0's do fine as well

 

On what boat?

 

I must be hampered by reality (and a weak J/111 that builds apparent like crazy in the light). TWA 80 is friggin' AWA 35 and were pretty sure that no North A5 can cope with that :-) In more breeze there's just to much power/area to make the boat go fast with a reaching kite at tight angles.

 

So, from your expertise, at what TWA would you say a C0 would be fast on a J/88?

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TWA 80 and higher - that is not a Code 0 - that is a reaching kite

 

Congrats. Care to share the design of the reaching kite that is fast in TWA 80?

Std A7 and some A5's ( I have a North A5 that does just fine at a TWA of 80 (or a little tighter if light) - obviously A0's do fine as well

 

On what boat?

 

I must be hampered by reality (and a weak J/111 that builds apparent like crazy in the light). TWA 80 is friggin' AWA 35 and were pretty sure that no North A5 can cope with that :-) In more breeze there's just to much power/area to make the boat go fast with a reaching kite at tight angles.

 

So, from your expertise, at what TWA would you say a C0 would be fast on a J/88?

That would be on my Viper - which is a whole lot lighter and easier driven than any J boat. The trick to getting tight angles on my boat with a reacher kite is to allow for enough luff sag. If you bone it on it won't work. Basically same idea as an A0

 

Not sure about a C0 on a J88 - have never sailed on one

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8 months later .. hull 10 in the Netherlands and what a fun we had :

really love the J88 !!!!

Great vid guys. And good on you for not being afraid to show the good and the not so good, we've all had our good and bad moments...

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8 months later .. hull 10 in the Netherlands and what a fun we had :

really love the J88 !!!!
Great vid guys. And good on you for not being afraid to show the good and the not so good, we've all had our good and bad moments...

Bad? What are you talking about? :D

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:D:D :D Just to be honest, for us there were no bad moments, just bad handling. ;) The J88 could stand all of our abuse and we have so much fun sailing it and we are so glad we have mild winters and can sail the J88 the whole year round!!!

 

 


8 months later .. hull 10 in the Netherlands and what a fun we had :

really love the J88 !!!!
Great vid guys. And good on you for not being afraid to show the good and the not so good, we've all had our good and bad moments...

Bad? What are you talking about? :D
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Now we have the J88 close at sea for winter regatta's and than the temprature hardly drops under below , Just as long the water doesnt freeze , we are sailing . more landinwards where there is no salt water , sometime's the river and lakes are a bit frozen for a week ? hardly any longer than a month . i think we have once in the 10 year a white christmas.

 

For us it is at least 20 years ago when we had about 15 inch of ice around our boat it .

 

Our country has a real sea climate , a lot of lake's and water so the temprature never drops hard, sometime's when we get wind from the east from , Germany, Poland, Rusland it can get cold But after a few weekst the sea temprature always wins from the east.

 

What is a mild winter in the Netherlands consist of ? In New York we all have to haul out by the end of October. Not due to weather just because

 

 

 

:D:D :D Just to be honest, for us there were no bad moments, just bad handling. ;) The J88 could stand all of our abuse and we have so much fun sailing it and we are so glad we have mild winters and can sail the J88 the whole year round!!!

 

 


8 months later .. hull 10 in the Netherlands and what a fun we had :

really love the J88 !!!!
Great vid guys. And good on you for not being afraid to show the good and the not so good, we've all had our good and bad moments...

Bad? What are you talking about? :D
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What is a mild winter in the Netherlands consist of ? In New York we all have to haul out by the end of October. Not due to weather just because

What? - when I lived in CT the cruising boat NEVER got hauled until early December - are you a total pussy?

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Not a pussy just happen to have to deal with marinas in New York and the pussification of municipalities. Some marinas make you pay for an extended fall /winter season. The village where I live wants you off the moorings by Oct 31. So hauled out it is just moved boat today to be hauled.

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Not a pussy just happen to have to deal with marinas in New York and the pussification of municipalities. Some marinas make you pay for an extended fall /winter season. The village where I live wants you off the moorings by Oct 31. So hauled out it is just moved boat today to be hauled.

Same here.

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What? - when I lived in CT the cruising boat NEVER got hauled until early December - are you a total pussy?

Now you haul your viper after every time you use it ... What does that make you?

I don't know - but we put it in the water for racing in November, December - no racing in January and then starting up again in February

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I read someplace that "On the Melges 32, the jib remains hoisted when the wind is above 10 knots."

 

Does anyone have any experience or opinion on this for the J88? Since we are still learning the boat, we just kinda rolled it up down wind. I suppose it might make a difference with the TWA and the cut of the Spinnaker ...

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The jib is on a furler (so there's no rig-hoist-drop), so why not just try it? The best skipper I sailed with on a J/88 used the spin and jib a few times. If it didn't improve speed and/or it made the spin less stable, he'd just furl it back up. Most of the best skippers I've sailed with don't talk themselves out of sail changes when there's good reason to try - live and learn [iOW, I've been on boats where the discussion takes far longer than just trying it...and more of a distraction too] Here's another quote that supports yours, though staysail vs jib, sounds like you need a minimum wind threshold and a reasonable sea state that doesn't make the spin unstable.

When and why

There are general rules of thumb when staysails begin to work and in lighter winds that swirl around the rig and sails they can clog up the area between the mainsail and the spinnaker. They usually begin to function positively at around 11 knots true wind speed. However it varies enormously from boat to boat, so the easiest way to find out where it kicks in is to simply fly it and look at the boat speed, or set up and sail with the spinnaker as per normal and then deploy the staysail, remember it should be hoisted on a furler and ready to go. Then watch your angles and if you have trouble with a slightly unstable spinnaker then refurl it. You will always need to sheet the spinnaker on a touch harder when the spin staysail is deployed; its just a matter of how much harder you have to sheet it on before the performance starts to suffer. High performance boats sometimes get away with using staysails successfully in down around 7kts, but that is something that the team and trimmer need to monitor and decide if it is worth a try, sea state will also come into play in the lighter conditions, bouncy conditions make it harder to trim and control.

Remember when monitoring the speed the spinnaker staysail will not really make the boat go faster, it will however help with keeping a better average speed and and a result really help with vmg.

http://www.destinationonedesign.com/prep/index.aspx?subsection=608afb0f7a0443d6bb5b82f976be7098

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I read someplace that "On the Melges 32, the jib remains hoisted when the wind is above 10 knots."

 

Does anyone have any experience or opinion on this for the J88? Since we are still learning the boat, we just kinda rolled it up down wind. I suppose it might make a difference with the TWA and the cut of the Spinnaker ...

We've been sailing an 88 for a few weeks now and found that in planing conditions we leave the jib up, it makes the boat more stable downwind and helps us stay upright coming out of gybes. However it's important that the jib doesn't get forgotten about downwind, over trimmed and it unsettles the spinnaker, under trimmed and it flaps
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I read someplace that "On the Melges 32, the jib remains hoisted when the wind is above 10 knots."

 

Does anyone have any experience or opinion on this for the J88? Since we are still learning the boat, we just kinda rolled it up down wind. I suppose it might make a difference with the TWA and the cut of the Spinnaker ...

We've been sailing an 88 for a few weeks now and found that in planing conditions we leave the jib up, it makes the boat more stable downwind and helps us stay upright coming out of gybes. However it's important that the jib doesn't get forgotten about downwind, over trimmed and it unsettles the spinnaker, under trimmed and it flaps

 

Same on the J/111. Jib stays up/out in planing conditions (10kn in the Melges 32, 16kn on the J/111). We also finds that it helps us coming out of a broach - keeps bow down and generates some forward speed to get flow over the rudder... +1 on the trim.

 

https://vimeo.com/109449668

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The consensus seems to range from 14 to 20 knots, and there's some interpretation on what constitutes planing anyway. I assume it'll usually take at least 20 knots to maintain double digit boat speeds for any length of time. Highest J/88 speed I've experienced first hand was 15.2 kts SOG (before we submarined), A3 reaching in winds about 22 kts ± for over an hour. BLISS!

 

What wind speeds are needed to get the J88 up on a plane? The hull seems pretty full.

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We found that on a W/L course we could plane in 16-18kts but it was only beneficial for vmg with around 22+kits the boat needs to be worked hard to get on the plane in marginal conditions

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Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. So would be displacement mode 90% of the time with a 87 rating? I saw a J88 won the Rum Runner event here in SoCal. Looks like she kicked some serious ass.

What a lot of people dont understand about sailing thes types of boats W/L is they really dont have a brick wall to overcome from displacement sailing to planing they do a lot of inbetween sailing. In 15 knots you will be sailing well above hull speed and then burning down to use it for vmg. Look at the polars is 8-9 knots of boat speed planing? Not really but it is a shitload more fun than squared back going 7.

 

Sailing these boats to their targets is a must do downhill

This is helpful. Having my first planing boat, I find it hard to know when to stay up-yi-ha! Isn't this fun going so fast on our way to exactly nowhere! and when to burn off and actually head to the mark. I have to rely on some dinghy types to give me a slap on the head when I'm doing 13-14 kts to the control tower at the airport, which would mean that I would never, ever get to the bottom of the course. The displacement boat was set, find the mark, and point at it.

 

I'm not very good at it, but it's sure fun learning. I can't wait to climb back onto that horse (something about a broken mast; don't ask).

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You will get it figured out. I find it helpfull to convert the polars twa to awa and print that out to put it on the bulkhead. Newbies to apparent wind sailing instantly calm the snake wake driving from too low to too high. If it says you should be at 110 awa you can look up and quickly get a feel for that. Same goes for the light where they never want to sail high enough to build the apparent. You may be sailing at insane awa angles in the light so it does help to know that you should be at say 50 or 60. Once you get a feel for that go back to target speed to refine.

 

Just like sailing light weight boats uphill where the point comes from speed first its the same down hill where the depth comes from speed first. Trick is to not sail so low that the awa makes its huge shift aft and you have to make a big turn to chase it back up and not so high that you are going nowhere fast. If you can turn that big snake wake into a really little one you will be really quick.

 

It takes a season to get your ass calibrated but IMHO sprit boats really bring the fun back into sailing.

Well said...

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i agree , and the J88 brings so much fun .

 

You will get it figured out. I find it helpfull to convert the polars twa to awa and print that out to put it on the bulkhead. Newbies to apparent wind sailing instantly calm the snake wake driving from too low to too high. If it says you should be at 110 awa you can look up and quickly get a feel for that. Same goes for the light where they never want to sail high enough to build the apparent. You may be sailing at insane awa angles in the light so it does help to know that you should be at say 50 or 60. Once you get a feel for that go back to target speed to refine.

Just like sailing light weight boats uphill where the point comes from speed first its the same down hill where the depth comes from speed first. Trick is to not sail so low that the awa makes its huge shift aft and you have to make a big turn to chase it back up and not so high that you are going nowhere fast. If you can turn that big snake wake into a really little one you will be really quick.

 

It takes a season to get your ass calibrated but IMHO sprit boats really bring the fun back into sailing.

Well said...

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Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. So would be displacement mode 90% of the time with a 87 rating? I saw a J88 won the Rum Runner event here in SoCal. Looks like she kicked some serious ass.

 

 

I'm the new owner of that boat. It was previously Dr Laura's "Crazy 88" which won the King Harbor race and was doing well in the Newport to Ensenada Race before retiring. We were very new to the boat; I had sailed it a couple of times, but the crew had never sailed a J88. We were very fortunate to have good breeze (many hours of 18-23) from behind most of the race which never died as the sun set. My top speed was 17.8 on a great wave and puff, but we often saw sustained 15-16's when the breeze was up. The boat has great control in those conditions and we had a blast. We certainly did sail with TWD targets in mind, but as suggested above, most of the time you are playing the waves and puffs. It's pretty dynamic driving and just a lot of fun. Great boat!

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Correction to the first post: I meant to type TWA, not TWD.

 

As far as upwind in light, we certainly have very little experience to date. The Rum Runner did start in very light conditions, but fortunately we could carry the "code zero" (75% mid girth ) during that first hour and it was terrific. The first leg was about 13 miles with the zero or the J1 in 2-4 starting, building to 8-12, and we were very pleased to round with one of the Flying Tigers.

 

I have no experience comparing a J88 to a J29 on the water, so no idea about their relative light air performance. I think the A-sails and the planing, the open cockpit and perhaps a bit more interior, make the J88 a really different boat. The ergonomics are really good on deck.

 

I did write up a race summary with some photos which I'd be happy to share if someone can tell me how to upload a PDF (or if there is a better way)

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Attached is the summary of the Rum Runner race in our new (to us) J88. Still working on some video.... we were lucky to have hours of planing conditions. Will post when uploaded to youtube.

Great write up, thanks for taking the time to put it together and including some pic. Very nicely done.
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its in the work as far as i know. Want to be established before KWRW15

Need one more for a One-Design Start ...

 

 

Put the D on a trailer!

 

 

 

 

Bill are y'all goin?

Deviation won't be there this year will be there, but I heard a rumor that Yonder (#35) might be going.

 

 

I spoke too soon, all we need is the attachicon.gif Hathaway, Reiser and Raymond bug catcher and we're all set.
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A couple of great articles from the Chicago J/Boats dealer, Rich Stearns:

 

J/88 and the CYC Race to Mackinac (a few J/88's are already planning to enter, trying to get a OD start/section) http://www.jboats.com/images/stories/pdf/J88_ChicagoMac.pdf

 

J/88 - the perfect boat! http://www.jboats.com/images/stories/pdf/J88_PerfectBoat.pdf

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New 2-position latches for standard J/88 front hatch (pics below)

 

AFAIK all J/88's have delivered with a front hatch with one locked position, fully closed. From other J's we've owned, when the boat is at a slip/mooring, we missed having the option to also lock the hatch in a slightly open position to vent the boat and keep it aired out. We've been leaving an aft port slightly open, but that lets rain in and soaks the berth sometimes.

 

We also find the vent position (not locked) useful when sailing in sloppy weather with the spin sheets tied on (between legs). We leave the lines out to, and close just one front hatch latch in the vent position so the lines aren't pinched but the hatch won't flop open. We usually stuff an old t-shirt in the small gap forward which keeps most if not all the water out.

 

So I asked the OEM http://www.bsidk.com/default.asp (Denmark IIRC) about it, and it appears they're in production now, I have a pair coming to me.

 

The BSI rep tells me they will inform J/Boats and BSI has a division in RI that can make them available. I don't know about pricing or when they will be available in the US, sorry.

 

Just info FWIW.

post-301-0-65458700-1417901041_thumb.jpg

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There is a chance a J/88 might be coming to Lake Champlain. I'm involved in class split and PHRF discussions, and I'm curious what kind of PHRF rating the boat is getting.

 

In our generally lighter wind region, I would be more inclined to place the J/88 with J/29s and J/92s, rather than with J/109s and J/122s, based on waterline and displacement. Does that seem reasonable?

 

Thanks,

 

Jason

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There have been rating discussions earlier in this thread if you're interested. 87 seems to be the most common W/L PHRF "OD" rating, but it was rated 69 out west somewhere (the J/88 is not that fast). The J/88 will keep pace with J/29s and J/92(s) upwind, and be quite a bit faster off the wind in most conditions. IME the J/105 might be a better matchup for a J/88.

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Our current class divisions are as follows:

  • Etchells (All Etchells)
  • Jib and Main (All Jib and Main)
  • Spinnaker A (PHRF < 090)
  • Spinnaker B (PHRF 090 - 126, Displacement < 7500 lbs)
  • Spinnaker C (PHRF 090 - 126, Displacement ≥ 7500 lbs)
  • Spinnaker D (PHRF > 126)
  • Sportboat (i550, J/70, K6, Melges 20, Melges 24, Open 5.70, Rocket 22, Shaw 650, Ultimate 20, Viper 640, VX One)

I am thinking about moving the A - B/C border number from 90 to 81. This moves a local Frers 38 and Swede 55 to Spin C, and would place the J/88 in Spinnaker B. I would not be surprised to see the J/88 end up with something in the range of PHRF 87 here.

 

FYI on most weekends, Etchells and Sportboats fold into Spinnaker B.

 

It has worked quite well for us to use displacement along with PHRF ratings for our class splits. If you have enough boats, I recommend it! Rating complaints tend to decrease when you separate furniture boats from more stripped-down racers and day-sailors.

 

Thanks!

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You already know this...

 

Most boats are going to struggle in a section where other boats have more waterline/lower ratings, so will the J/88 in your Spin A except maybe when it's very, very light. If sailed equally, a J/88 would have a tough time correcting over a J/122.

 

OTOH, a J/29 or a J/92(s) would have their hands full against a J/88, but they'd be closer than the J/88 up against a J/122, that's more hopeless unless it's near ghosting conditions maybe.

 

IMO the J/88 should be in the same section as your J/105's, J/100's (if I guessed the right database).

 

Tough situation, no easy answers in handicap racing, as you clearly realize.

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Thanks for the feedback!

 

The J/105 would be with the heavier furniture Spinnaker C boats like the C&C 99s, J/110, C&C 110, Pearson 37s, and Peterson 34, and next year, the Swede 55 and Frers 38. The local J/105 hasn't raced in a year. I think the J/88 will have reasonable PHRF correction with the good numbers of J/92s and J/29s, so I will lobby for the updated split. On the weekends, we can see if the Etchells, Viper 640s and J/70s can give the J/88 some good competition on races around the islands and government marks.

 

Cheers and back to your J/88 thread! I'll let you guys know if the J/88 rumors come true up here. It looks like a fun boat!

 

Jason

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  • 3 weeks later...

Outboard leads - Anybody done any mods for an outboard lead for reaching on the J/88? I know of a boat that installed padeyes, and I've just run a line from the crew thru the stanchion base and then the cabin top winch to move the clew outboard (not a good permanent solution). Any other good ideas?

 

Rig tuning - There was an earlier discussion, but I don't think this approach was part of that. If I understand this RCR page below, it appears #56 has permanently installed (what looks like) ratchet wrenches with the handles cutoff on their upper and mid turnbuckles (so 4 total, 2 per side). I assume they use a cheater pipe for leverage when tightening/loosening. If I can figure out what locks them so they don't spin on the turnbuckle body, I may do the same. Rig tuning with screwdrivers & wrenches is on a J/88 is just too much of a PITA.

 

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=aa4d9ef732c6edf3dabc4fd51&id=2e03edde6b

post-301-0-22947900-1419879489_thumb.jpg

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[Rig tuning - There was an earlier discussion, but I don't think this approach was part of that. If I understand this RCR page below, it appears #56 has permanently installed (what looks like) ratchet wrenches with the handles cutoff on their upper and mid turnbuckles (so 4 total, 2 per side). I assume they use a cheater pipe for leverage when tightening/loosening. If I can figure out what locks them so they don't spin on the turnbuckle body, I may do the same. Rig tuning with screwdrivers & wrenches is on a J/88 is just too much of a PITA.

Opinion from one reliable source:

• The shroud adjusters are not just Craftsman 3/4" 12-Point Reversible Ratcheting box Wrenches,

• they have to be carefully dremmed out to fit the shrouds correctly,

• They also have to be fitted so they are snug on the turnbuckle body.

• They do require to be lubricated to keep them working well,

• the turnbuckle body will not have trouble with corrosion.

 

Opinion from a second reliable source:

• We would not recommend permanently attaching a wrench to you turnbuckles.

• You still need a wrench for the stud.

• Its not recommend but I know other people that have done this as well. The boat we sailed one design the mast man had them in his gear so it was just as easy we thought.

• Second it’s just another area for a sheet to wrap around to cause problems.

• We would not recommend this to anyone and it would not be covered under warranty as you have altered the part.

 

Opinion from third reliable source:

• the pink and grey color scheme is not appealing ...

My opinion:

• we're dealing with at least four different metals plus seawater ... it's will be interesting to see what fails first (my bet is on the spring in the ratchet)

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http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=aa4d9ef732c6edf3dabc4fd51&id=2e03edde6b

Quote from J/88 Update #6:

 

Class Rules coming soon: A first draft of the rules have been sent out to some dealers and with plenty of feedback still needed, they are not ready for publication. We will be sure to get those out to owners when they are available. Because Key West is coming up very quickly, they will not have rules in place for Sails or Crew Weight, just go and have fun with the program you’ve had all summer!

Has anyone seen these draft rules?

 

Apparently some dealers have shared them with their more important clientele ...

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  • 2 weeks later...

In December I bought #31 from J Boats (in partnership with a friend) - it was their Newport demo boat for 2014. I asked what hull # they were up to at the factory and was told #61 and that they more on order in the US and Europe. #31 will be sailing and racing on Lake Champlain.

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There's a J88 at the Toronto Boat Show for anyone who's interested in seeing one up close. It's immediate neighbour is a C+C 30 and it's interesting to compare the two side by side. The J88 looks really good beside the C+C, in terms of build and finish, regardless of how different they are.

 

The J88 looks to me a lot like an Olson 30, 35 years on. My buddy somehow didn't quite agree with me but the Olson 30 and the J88 seem to be built from the same program of what they were trying to achieve. A lot has changed is boat design and construction but a lot has remained the same.

 

I thought the J88 was beautiful.

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There's a J88 at the Toronto Boat Show for anyone who's interested in seeing one up close. It's immediate neighbour is a C+C 30 and it's interesting to compare the two side by side. The J88 looks really good beside the C+C, in terms of build and finish, regardless of how different they are.

 

The J88 looks to me a lot like an Olson 30, 35 years on. My buddy somehow didn't quite agree with me but the Olson 30 and the J88 seem to be built from the same program of what they were trying to achieve. A lot has changed is boat design and construction but a lot has remained the same.

 

I thought the J88 was beautiful.

What was lacking as far as quality on the C&C vs the J? Just curious since both are on my "wish list".

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Both boats have lots to appreciate. For me the J88 was by far the more desirable package but I don't think anything is lacking on the C&C. They are different enough that's it's hard to compare them. below decks on the C&C is almost non-existant for one thing and even though the J88 has low headroom and a very spartan interior it's comfortable for what it is and you can see yourself using the boat in a variety of ways, the C&C is for course racing only. Interesting that they have almost exactly the same price point. The C&C looks more low volume production than the J88, the J is more polished. Some of the fit and finish of the C&C could be better. The tiller attachment to the rudder on the C&C looked poor (even though the carbon tiller was sexy) but this could simply be a factor of it being a 'show boat' rather than something wrong, maybe whoever assembled the boat at the show didn't assemble the tiller tightly to the rudder. Another example - the C&C has this very cool tuneable mast shoe for adjusting rake, but it looks almost one-off, very handmade looking. not that there is anything wrong with things that are made by hand, just that the J88 looked much more a fully realized production product, which i suppose maybe it is. i didn't like the decking on the C&C, it was that die-cut foamish stuff. it looked like it would have a short lifespan and get beat up and start peeling off within the first season, especially with heavy use. the cockpit of both boats was very good but i think the J88 had this figured out at a more refined level, a lot of thought and development seemed to have gone into the J88 cockpit.

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Well a speed difference in the 40 sec/mile range does necessitate a bit of limitations................I can't see using the 88 as a cruising boat anyway - so that's not a bad thing. - I will take a much faster boat any day of the week.

 

I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

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I agree that the J88 and C&C target different types of sailors. The J88 is a fast racer/cruiser on which you can easily spent a weekend or short holiday cruising as a couple.

The C&C is targeted as a fast day racer. Both very nice looking boats.

 

Personally (!) I can't imagine buying a keelboat (like the C&C) in which you cannot overnight to spend a weekend or short holiday. If you don't want to overnight at the boat and want to be fast, why not go for for something like a F18/20 cat, skiff or even a Flying Phantom foiling cat. These boats blast the C&C (and a Farr 280 etc) away for a fraction of the price! But that's just my opinion ;-)

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Went to the show yesterday, and I can confirm #58 is there, very well equipped (v-berth, aft ports, dodger, shore power) and for sale (no wait). Show started slow but picked up yesterday, and there was good interest in the J/88!

I haven't been yet, but according to their website, there's supposed to be a J/88 at the (CHICAGO Boat, RV &) Strictly Sail show yesterday through Sunday as well.

 

http://www.strictlysailchicago.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/StrictlySailChicago

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I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

 

mostly because they were side by side at the boat show i guess. and they're both newish and cost about the same. so it's not like they're in a different universe from each other. but i agree, i can't see very many people who say, are in the market to buy a boat in that price range and would be looking at both, they are too dissimilar.

 

is the C&C really 40sec/mile faster than the J88?

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I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

 

mostly because they were side by side at the boat show i guess. and they're both newish and cost about the same. so it's not like they're in a different universe from each other. but i agree, i can't see very many people who say, are in the market to buy a boat in that price range and would be looking at both, they are too dissimilar.

 

is the C&C really 40sec/mile faster than the J88?

Yep - something like that

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I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

mostly because they were side by side at the boat show i guess. and they're both newish and cost about the same. so it's not like they're in a different universe from each other. but i agree, i can't see very many people who say, are in the market to buy a boat in that price range and would be looking at both, they are too dissimilar.

 

is the C&C really 40sec/mile faster than the J88?

A very different design brief, it should be! The J/88 is a quick but forgiving race boat that a family can also enjoy for daysail/weekending, the C&C is strictly a race boat. I'd hate to do a distance race on a C&C 30, but J/88's have already done many overnights in reasonable comfort.

post-301-0-04076900-1421520583_thumb.jpg

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I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

mostly because they were side by side at the boat show i guess. and they're both newish and cost about the same. so it's not like they're in a different universe from each other. but i agree, i can't see very many people who say, are in the market to buy a boat in that price range and would be looking at both, they are too dissimilar.

 

is the C&C really 40sec/mile faster than the J88?

A very different design brief, it should be! The J/88 is a quick but forgiving race boat that a family can also enjoy for daysail/weekending, the C&C is strictly a race boat. I'd hate to do a distance race on a C&C 30, but J/88's have already done many overnights in reasonable comfort.

Why?

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I am not sure why you are even comparing the two - quite different beasts.

 

mostly because they were side by side at the boat show i guess. and they're both newish and cost about the same. so it's not like they're in a different universe from each other. but i agree, i can't see very many people who say, are in the market to buy a boat in that price range and would be looking at both, they are too dissimilar.

 

is the C&C really 40sec/mile faster than the J88?

A very different design brief, it should be! The J/88 is a quick but forgiving race boat that a family can also enjoy for daysail/weekending, the C&C is strictly a race boat. I'd hate to do a distance race on a C&C 30, but J/88's have already done many overnights in reasonable comfort.
Why?
That is what I was thinking. Best to go fast, especially on a long race. If you are down below, cooking, sleeping in a comfy bunk, reading a book, ..., well then you are not racing. I'd rather crew for the fast boat and start the party sooner.
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Team Deviation - congratulations on results to date at Key West! Continued great success from Team Velocity

Dont forget Team Touch2Play Racing, Team Instant Karma, Team Easy Eights, Team Saralysia, and Team Night Owl ...

 

The results do not give a good indication of how close the racing is.

 

It's been a really fun week. It's a really talented group of sailors we have here.

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J/88's at Key West had a lot of fun. Just ask Sandy Butler! BTW, who should be a SCOTW! Here's what happened:

 

The J/88 class was decided on Friday with Rob & Sandy Butler sailing TOUCH2PLAY RACING to victory in both races. That clutch performance gave the Canadian entry the same amount of points as DEVIATION, skippered by Iris Vogel of New Rochelle, New York. TOUCH2PLAY won the tiebreaker by virtue of more first place finishes.

"We put the pressure on (Deviation) by winning the last race on Thursday. We still trailed by two points so we knew we had to come out and win both races today," Rob Butler said. "Our crew was really dialed in and we had very good boat speed. I'm proud of the team for doing what we had to do in order to win the regatta."

Behind these two, it was David Betts’ INSTANT KARMA that took third, narrowly beating out Joe & Jeff Pawlowski’s EASY EIGHTS in fourth and Chester Kolascz’s SARALYSIA in fifth.

 

Sailing photo credits from friends at Tim Wilkes (http://www.timwilkes.com) and Sharon Green/ Ultimate Sailing (http://www.ultimatesailing.com).

 

 

 


 

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The shroud base (and backstay) aren't big issues, owners are simply discussing the best way to address them. I don't know an owner yet who doesn't love the boat, despite a relatively few minor issues.

 

I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

Night Owl found simple solution to fore-aft stanchion braces for P&S opening gates ...

post-66960-0-76156200-1422461570_thumb.jpg

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The shroud base (and backstay) aren't big issues, owners are simply discussing the best way to address them. I don't know an owner yet who doesn't love the boat, despite a relatively few minor issues.

 

I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

Night Owl found simple solution to fore-aft stanchion braces for P&S opening gates ...
Wasn't sure what I was seeing at first, but I noticed the port orientation, deck repair, and I see they moved the fore-aft brace almost 180. That would help. I am still trying to find something ratcheting (but not keen on leaving something on the turnbuckle) or maybe just open end box wrenches with right angle one end and straight the other end. Not great, but better than a stubby screwdriver...
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