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oh no.......no more twinkies ??


dacapo

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Springstein has millions of adoring fans who would differ with your assesment.

 

I generally change the station or TV channel when I accidentally encounter that which I consider to be his annoying racket...but to say he is not a great entertainer is a demonstration of utter ignorance.

 

Popularity is not a measure of quality.

 

If that was true then Little Wayne is better than the beatles as he has more Gold records.

 

I do not begrudge Mr. Springsteen making money. I just loathe his hypcracy and the arrogance of his fans.

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Oh well, haters gonna hate I guess.

 

Yep

 

 

In honor of my brothers and sisters who fought the good fight and lost against the rapacious, greedy, corporate bastards. Respect! Remember, "This land belongs to you and me".

 

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Oh well, haters gonna hate I guess.

 

Yep

 

 

In honor of my brothers and sisters who fought the good fight and lost against the rapacious, greedy, corporate bastards. Respect! Remember, "This land belongs to you and me".

 

 

Just what is it you are afraid of Anthony, or can I call you Tony?

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Yeah sure, it is all the unions fault. How about the two venture capital companies that control Hostess? Surely it couldn't be their need to take huge amounts of capital out of the company to pay off investors (and the huge loans they made to the company to pay themselves) at the expense of the workers could it? No of course not. Those filthy unions are to blame for every ill the US has ever suffered including the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq and of course the great depression as well as, I am told, many tropical depressions. It is funny how unions are blamed for every economic ill in the last 30 years or more. Did you know that nationwide, less than 13% of the country's workers belong to a union. Golly, those damned unions have more power than I thought!

 

Go join Romney and his Bain capital robber baron, thieving, white collar criminal cronies and get rich off of the backs of the working people if that's how you feel. Of course given this is a sailing website, it isn't surprising how many people hate unions here. Now go find somebody to press your white trousers and pick up your blue blazer from the dry cleaners you motherfucking capitalist pigs! ;)

 

so how do you Really feel about Unions

 

are you an Officer or Worker ??

 

I was a member of the United Electrical Workers Union (UE) which still represents workers of the General Electric Company. Funny how GE is one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world (That actually makes things and isn't in the petroleum business) and is still a unionized company.

 

UE! Best union in the country! I'm a shop steward for my local and serve on our negotiations committee.

 

Hostess was totally mismanaged. Management knew that the business was circling the drain, and were looting the company for all it was worth, try to suck everything out of it while there was still a business left to loot. The plan all along was probably to file for bankruptcy and blame it on the union. It's amazing how often management is highly rewarded for running companies into the ground.

 

- Czo

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Yeah sure, it is all the unions fault. How about the two venture capital companies that control Hostess? Surely it couldn't be their need to take huge amounts of capital out of the company to pay off investors (and the huge loans they made to the company to pay themselves) at the expense of the workers could it? No of course not. Those filthy unions are to blame for every ill the US has ever suffered including the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq and of course the great depression as well as, I am told, many tropical depressions. It is funny how unions are blamed for every economic ill in the last 30 years or more. Did you know that nationwide, less than 13% of the country's workers belong to a union. Golly, those damned unions have more power than I thought!

 

Go join Romney and his Bain capital robber baron, thieving, white collar criminal cronies and get rich off of the backs of the working people if that's how you feel. Of course given this is a sailing website, it isn't surprising how many people hate unions here. Now go find somebody to press your white trousers and pick up your blue blazer from the dry cleaners you motherfucking capitalist pigs! ;)

 

so how do you Really feel about Unions

 

are you an Officer or Worker ??

 

I was a member of the United Electrical Workers Union (UE) which still represents workers of the General Electric Company. Funny how GE is one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world (That actually makes things and isn't in the petroleum business) and is still a unionized company.

 

UE! Best union in the country! I'm a shop steward for my local and serve on our negotiations committee.

 

Hostess was totally mismanaged. Management knew that the business was circling the drain, and were looting the company for all it was worth, try to suck everything out of it while there was still a business left to loot. The plan all along was probably to file for bankruptcy and blame it on the union. It's amazing how often management is highly rewarded for running companies into the ground.

 

- Czo

 

Yeah, it's funny how when a company fails it is always the fault of the union. Like there is no such thing as incompetent or greedy management (or both).

 

IMHO, UE is one of the finest unions in the country. I worked at the GE Erie Plant many years ago. Keep fighting the good fight!

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I don't think hedge funds were involved. They were in bankruptcy and had DIP financing through banks as far as I can tell. Even if hedge funds had provided the DIP financing, how did they cause the problem?

 

I would say that there is plenty of blame to go around, between the management (what was the CEO's salary?), hedge funds, and unions, I think that the thing to do is to see who ends up with the money..

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No decent amount of cash flow....stuck in the '60's on their products and not catering to introducing more healthy products.

 

Sure they came out with their new tree hugger bread line in 2010...but to little to late.

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Yeah sure, it is all the unions fault. How about the two venture capital companies that control Hostess? Surely it couldn't be their need to take huge amounts of capital out of the company to pay off investors (and the huge loans they made to the company to pay themselves) at the expense of the workers could it? No of course not. Those filthy unions are to blame for every ill the US has ever suffered including the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq and of course the great depression as well as, I am told, many tropical depressions. It is funny how unions are blamed for every economic ill in the last 30 years or more. Did you know that nationwide, less than 13% of the country's workers belong to a union. Golly, those damned unions have more power than I thought!

 

Go join Romney and his Bain capital robber baron, thieving, white collar criminal cronies and get rich off of the backs of the working people if that's how you feel. Of course given this is a sailing website, it isn't surprising how many people hate unions here. Now go find somebody to press your white trousers and pick up your blue blazer from the dry cleaners you motherfucking capitalist pigs! ;)

 

so how do you Really feel about Unions

 

are you an Officer or Worker ??

 

I was a member of the United Electrical Workers Union (UE) which still represents workers of the General Electric Company. Funny how GE is one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world (That actually makes things and isn't in the petroleum business) and is still a unionized company.

 

UE! Best union in the country! I'm a shop steward for my local and serve on our negotiations committee.

 

Hostess was totally mismanaged. Management knew that the business was circling the drain, and were looting the company for all it was worth, try to suck everything out of it while there was still a business left to loot. The plan all along was probably to file for bankruptcy and blame it on the union. It's amazing how often management is highly rewarded for running companies into the ground.

 

- Czo

 

You see. That is the problem. Hostess can manage their company any damn way they want to, It is not your place or any other Union hack's place to demand them to do any different.

 

As a private company they gave the union an option. Either end the strike and have a job on Monday or stay on strike and lose your jobs. All the Union was suppose to do is say Yes or No. They said No. The workers lost.

 

Oh well, haters gonna hate I guess.

 

Yep

 

 

In honor of my brothers and sisters who fought the good fight and lost against the rapacious, greedy, corporate bastards. Respect! Remember, "This land belongs to you and me".

 

 

Just what is it you are afraid of Anthony, or can I call you Tony?

 

Absolutely nothing sweety Absolutely Nothing

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No decent amount of cash flow....stuck in the '60's on their products and not catering to introducing more healthy products.

 

Sure they came out with their new tree hugger bread line in 2010...but to little to late.

 

That's exactly it. They sell antiquated products at a high price. Other than Twinkies they just don't move product. McKee Foods kicked their asses from left, right and center. If Hostess were a car company, they would be selling a V-12 guzzlers with crap acceleration and leaf spring suspension for $40k, and then they would blame the unions when most everyone decided they would rather buy a Honda.

 

Blaming the union for this bullshit, as Anthony has done is just stupid. Of course, he sells jewelry, what does he know about manufacturing?

 

As an aside, I like to see all the union support in this thread. Ten years ago I suspect it would have been more muted. It's true that there are crap unions, and there are crap union workers. But as a whole, mission-critical industries that can't afford major fuck-ups have union workers on the floor in the field.

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a Twinkie hole

 

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

Sum Facker ate teh W = whole B)

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Ah unions.......not even gonna touch the subject.......

 

As for twinkies the last one I had was like 7 years ago. Hostess makes some pretty good shit tho!

 

I haven't had one in more than 40 years but I did love those fruit pies they made, especially the cherry ones. Damn unions management!

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Corporation comes from the Latin root for body. Bodies die. The turnover is normal. Baldwin locomotive was going to last forever. That's all i have before someone suggests PA site.

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Springsteen changed my life. I'm convinced that I would have married the freckly, blue-eyed, Cindy B. if I had only refrained from rolling my eyes when she mentioned she was going to the show at the Fabulous Forum that weekend.

 

I'm grateful for my union although a bit chagrined when they are obliged to defend some of my colleagues, particularly the nut job who announced he was going to run for governor a couple years ago. I thought about joining the 'liaison' committee just to laugh at some of the petty shit my peers complain about, but I have a feeling they want someone a little more earnest.

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Call this guy when you have a craving (NTTAWWT)

 

553921_469661869753268_478940408_n.jpg

 

Solle please stoppe wearing Notter Daime shorttes an heeles wile cookeng, coud be dangeous. Thack you!

That picture actually gave me a flashback to the infamous Capstan pic that popped up a while back. Damn, that was one ugly tart.

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Call this guy when you have a craving (NTTAWWT)

 

553921_469661869753268_478940408_n.jpg

 

Solle please stoppe wearing Notter Daime shorttes an heeles wile cookeng, coud be dangeous. Thack you!

That picture actually gave me a flashback to the infamous Capstan pic that popped up a while back. Damn, that was one ugly tart.

 

I get it. Clove Hitch is one of your socks.

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Just read that management and the union are going to try to mediate a solution.

 

There is hope for the twinkie yet.

 

my bet

 

teh same people who cleared teh shelves of Twinkies

 

are sittin on ISO FaceBook Stock

 

BIG Difference - Twinkies can't go down in value ;)

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Twinkies will be back, maybe even Wonderbread and chocodiles, ding dongs and snowballs might be back. Some of these brands are too cashable to just toss.

 

But they'll be sold to a bakery that is managed better.

 

Aside, I noticed that Tim Tams are now being sold in America. Pepperidge Farm is apparently having them made in Australia and shipped here. This is the kind of competition that will murder Hostess if it tries to get off the mat without emptying its pockets.

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http://www.allvoices...-after-80-years

 

Before anyone bashes this Union anymore (Bakery & Confectionery Union) or broad-brush all unions as evil, one important element that should be noted. The Hostess Brands Co. OWES the Union $944.2 million. As such the BCTGM Union is the largest unsecured Creditor and investment group in the company. When the Executive Board and CEO Gregory Rayburn voted in their $1.5 million /year pay raises EACH they knew they would implode the company. They have successfully filed for Bankruptcy Ch. 11 twice before. They can absolve their union contracts every time and pay out $.20 cents (est.) on the dollar to liquidate their obligations. There are Union practices that need to be changed but the Hostess Executive Board has to be accountable to something.

 

The essential thing that made companies and workers get along was something called TRUST. What we have today is insatiable GREED. Like it or not, the Gov't. has to be the Referee and final arbitrator to keep the warring parties at bay from destroying each other like in Detroit. When the Gov't. & its judicial system get in bed with Management, or Labor, then the Lawyers will oversee the ultimate destruction and aftermath. The companies, with their polished and articulate PR people will continue to feed the media about the evils of union workers and the public will buy into it.

 

Only 8% of the US Labor force (130 million) is union currently. Without unions we will go back to the 19th century of the Penn. & Ky. coal mines, Ohio Steel and Michigan's automotive companies where they essentially enjoyed labor from indentured serfs. We will end up with Corporate Feudalism and Frontier Style Casino Capitalism. Is this what we want from our country? The record of this company is clear: Its 8 successive management teams during the past 10 years have been corrupted and their attitude towards their workers has been "let them eat Twinkies!"

 

Like it or not, Unions ushered in the American Middle Class and broke the yoke of their Corporate Masters. A job is NOT just a job if it pays at or below minimum wage scale. Remember the lessons of the Blair Mountain Minor War of 1921 when our own gov't. bombed (w/ Martin MB-1 Bombers) American workers who were striking against pay reductions. In 1922 American Labor got the 8 hour day only grudgingly after a long fight and many deaths. THINK where this country came from before you comment against labor and unions and applaud corporate executives and managers. The Employer-Employee Trust has irretrievably been broken by companies like this.

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THINK where this country came from before you comment against labor and unions and applaud corporate executives and managers.

 

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is applauding corporate executives for anything, they are just as big of shitbags as the union. Everyone in this country is over compensated and over entitled. Life is supposed to be fucking difficult, it's how we stay healthy as a species. The way we are going we are all going to be those fat pink blobs from Wall-e on floating chairs. Unions are not only fine with this, but they are pressing the goddamn accelerator.

 

wall-e.jpg

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That was meant in general terms and showing what unions have done and the greed of corporate executives...no need to be sensitive. :)

 

If it wasn't for the unions, even the decent non-union wages wouldn't have been what they were.

 

Not all unions are greed based, many have put a freeze on wages, even though they have contracts guaranteeing increases in pay for the next three years.

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THINK where this country came from before you comment against labor and unions and applaud corporate executives and managers.

 

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is applauding corporate executives for anything, they are just as big of shitbags as the union. Everyone in this country is over compensated and over entitled. Life is supposed to be fucking difficult, it's how we stay healthy as a species. The way we are going we are all going to be those fat pink blobs from Wall-e on floating chairs. Unions are not only fine with this, but they are pressing the goddamn accelerator.

 

wall-e.jpg

 

So mate by your logic: Unions who by helping the working man obtain a decent wage and job security are therefore duplicit in obesity because the workers can afford food??

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You both are misunderstanding still. Our entire western civilization needs to recalibrate what is "decent", from the minimum wage guy to the fat cat CEO. We are drifting into an oblivion of comfort.

 

How's the Missus and little one D? Hope all is well down there!

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they are just as big of shitbags as the union. Everyone in this country is over compensated and over entitled. Life is supposed to be fucking

 

Wait a second, if Hostess in fact owes its workers nearly $1 billion in debt that they floated as a good faith investment to the company, while management approved these raises, how do you justify calling the union workers for that company ”shitbags”?

 

You write how life is supposed to be difficult, but it seems the workers understood that very well by allowing their company to owe them a hell of a lot of money in wages. While management didn't get that at all.

 

You should be preaching to the folks on this thread who kneejerk supported management, rather than Boomer.

 

In my opinion, the union workers (as the biggest creditor) should make a play for employee ownership and make a go at operating the company the way management couldn't. The Hostess brands are valuable and given their creditor status, those employees own those brands in my opinion.

 

To anyone who doubts the viability of the employee ownership model ...

 

publix.jpg

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Mike-

 

Precisely what my wife and I were discussing the other day. The companies ploy to sell off important product divisions, would negate making this a viable move. If they can't come to an agreement, then this should be the next option and not allow Hostess to sell off those product divisions.

 

 

Doghouse-

 

I don't believe we're the one's misunderstanding the precarious nature of western civilization...but that's not the point I was establishing.

 

You'll also note I stated the unions need to change there stance as well.

 

Seems like your more concerned with directing away from the fact, Hostess is trying to get out of paying what's due to the union.

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Mike-

 

Precisely what my wife and I were discussing the other day. The companies ploy to sell off important product divisions, would negate making this a viable move. If they can't come to an agreement, then this should be the next option and not allow Hostess to sell off those product divisions.

 

 

Doghouse-

 

I don't believe we're the one's misunderstanding the precarious nature of western civilization...but that's not the point I was establishing.

 

You'll also note I stated the unions need to change there stance as well.

 

Seems like your more concerned with directing away from the fact, Hostess is trying to get out of paying what's due to the union.

 

only thing for sure about unions = Union Due's ;)

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Medical, dental, and vision insurance coverage....

 

A retirement and pension, as long as the retirement and pension funds are put in a trust, that can't be touched by the employer or the union.

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http://www.allvoices...-after-80-years

 

Before anyone bashes this Union anymore (Bakery & Confectionery Union) or broad-brush all unions as evil, one important element that should be noted. The Hostess Brands Co. OWES the Union $944.2 million. As such the BCTGM Union is the largest unsecured Creditor and investment group in the company. When the Executive Board and CEO Gregory Rayburn voted in their $1.5 million /year pay raises EACH they knew they would implode the company. They have successfully filed for Bankruptcy Ch. 11 twice before. They can absolve their union contracts every time and pay out $.20 cents (est.) on the dollar to liquidate their obligations. There are Union practices that need to be changed but the Hostess Executive Board has to be accountable to something.

 

The essential thing that made companies and workers get along was something called TRUST. What we have today is insatiable GREED. Like it or not, the Gov't. has to be the Referee and final arbitrator to keep the warring parties at bay from destroying each other like in Detroit. When the Gov't. & its judicial system get in bed with Management, or Labor, then the Lawyers will oversee the ultimate destruction and aftermath. The companies, with their polished and articulate PR people will continue to feed the media about the evils of union workers and the public will buy into it.

 

Only 8% of the US Labor force (130 million) is union currently. Without unions we will go back to the 19th century of the Penn. & Ky. coal mines, Ohio Steel and Michigan's automotive companies where they essentially enjoyed labor from indentured serfs. We will end up with Corporate Feudalism and Frontier Style Casino Capitalism. Is this what we want from our country? The record of this company is clear: Its 8 successive management teams during the past 10 years have been corrupted and their attitude towards their workers has been "let them eat Twinkies!"

 

Like it or not, Unions ushered in the American Middle Class and broke the yoke of their Corporate Masters. A job is NOT just a job if it pays at or below minimum wage scale. Remember the lessons of the Blair Mountain Minor War of 1921 when our own gov't. bombed (w/ Martin MB-1 Bombers) American workers who were striking against pay reductions. In 1922 American Labor got the 8 hour day only grudgingly after a long fight and many deaths. THINK where this country came from before you comment against labor and unions and applaud corporate executives and managers. The Employer-Employee Trust has irretrievably been broken by companies like this.

 

Very well said Boomer, thanks for that!

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Doghouse-

 

I don't believe we're the one's misunderstanding the precarious nature of western civilization...but that's not the point I was establishing.

 

You'll also note I stated the unions need to change there stance as well.

 

Seems like your more concerned with directing away from the fact, Hostess is trying to get out of paying what's due to the union.

 

I'm not directing away from anything. Hostess needs to go out of business, period. That's half the problem in this country. But I digress, the whole point is unions are accelerating our drive in to unsustainable and unrealistic expectations.

 

But, this time I am letting it go I swear, you sucked me back in with that bomb. Bastard. ;)

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I would like to see the employees and union do a buy out, before Hostess liquidates all the profitable divisions....but looks like that's wishful thing at this point.

 

What bothers me in the whole scheme of things, is Hostess will only have to pay out dimes on the dollar on the pension and retirement fund after taking the bankruptcy route. Some of these folks with 30+ years probably built up a just survivable amount in there retirement accounts, when it's over they'll probably see 20 cents on the dollar in their retirement account... that'll be a tough pill to swallow.

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This could go back and forth for ages about the unions. Pro-union guys like boomer and soak_ed will be for them obviously and guys like doghouse and myself (to a degree anyway) will be against them....that won't change. Some unions are decent and some.......like the maritime industry.....are pretty corrupt (I've been hung out to dry twice by maritime unions....grrrrrr). Boomer and doghouse are both right tho. BOTH sides of the spectrum should rethink their stances and ways they operate. Unions should focus on the wages and benefits of its members and NOT on making the union officials more money by essentially black mailing the corporations (we all know it happens), and the management of the company should do the EXACT same thing.......focus on making the company profitable so everyone benefits, not just the fat cats.

 

I really don't have a dog in this fight.....I don't even eat shit that Hostess makes.........bad for my health and detrimental for my type 2 diabetes that I thoroughly have in check (training for my Finn campaign helps that too lol). For some reason I just felt brave and decided to post about unions. Must be something in my coffee......

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only thing for sure about unions = Union Due's ;)

 

Year after year, my union dues are much much smaller than the pay raises I get in a year. Since my workplace is fairly recently unionized, I also know about the pay raises (or lack thereof) and lack of benefits before the union, and what management tries to get us to take even with the union. If only I could find an investment that gave the rate of return of my union dues, I'd be a wealthy man.

 

-Czo

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