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Yeah, the boat looks like shit.  But they're smiling, which is the reason to sail......

Writing from a country that owns a number of second hand submarines, it seems to me that giving such a craft to a drug cartel would be a great way to immediately bankrupt their operation.

This is what happens when you wear socks with sandals.

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It's no better from starboard, SthrnX. But it (I'm reluctant to say, 'she') does look like it's sporting lee board. Bet that sails like... well, I can't think of anything it might sail like actually, apart from a turd.

 

Maybe it's really a floating hot dog stand and the 'lee board' is a fold-away table. The dogs are served out that nice big picture window, which probably slides. :)

 

Where did you find this beauty anyway?

That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

 

I damn near built one, and still have a couple of partially finished bulkheads in my workshop. It will sail pretty well, I'll wager. One the most prolific Everglades Challenge finishers is another Michalak design, with the same leeboard and lug rig, sailed by my buddy Gary B. aka Lugnut.

 

The IMB is a scale up of an 11' pram Jim designed called Piccup. It's admittedly homely but it's nice boat that sails pretty well. Gary made a little video about his. The video shows how Jim's leeboard design works. It's kind of like a centerboard without a trunk. For sure it's more effective on one tack than the other, but that's not so noticeable in a boat that's designed for relaxed sailing and beach cruising. What it gives is lovely space to sprawl about without a shin busting centerboard trunk. Gary's vid below gives a nice illustration of how it works.

 

 

Full disclosure, I've built a couple of his designs and have sailed on many other boats built to his designs. Most aren't all that pretty, but they work well for what they are. I certainly enjoyed my boats of his. Here's my 18' power sharpie "Mister Moon".

 

mrmoon.jpg

 

 

IMB may be an Uglyboat, but it's one worthy of our admiration.

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

I'll be damned! Someone actually designed it? It reminds me of a Pug. Ugly but cute at the same time. I think someone said "Cugly".

No. Just plain ugly, IMO.

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Does this count? Kind of cute in a way.

 

I do like the Connestoga type top.

 

Jim Michalak design borrowing (with permission) Phil Bolger's insights about merging the inside and outside in boat accommodation. Keep in mind that Jim lives in Indiana (or is it Illinois?) and a lot of his designs are for protected water.

 

 

The off-center mast is my favorite part.

 

Snobs: "You can't put that there!"

 

Bolger: "I did." :P

 

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

 

I damn near built one, and still have a couple of partially finished bulkheads in my workshop. It will sail pretty well, I'll wager. One the most prolific Everglades Challenge finishers is another Michalak design, with the same leeboard and lug rig, sailed by my buddy Gary B. aka Lugnut.

...

 

Has Oaracle made it into this thread yet? It's certainly an uglyboat worthy of admiration.

 

lug-rig-oaracle-lg.jpg

 

lugger-departs-lg.jpg

 

I remember being pretty surprised by Oaracle's ability to take off upwind in knee-deep water when I took that second pic. (Those are from the 2012 Everglades Challenge).

 

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I'll be sailing in company with Oaracle all week next week. Going to be a good time!

 

Oaracle is cool with not only a single leeboard and an off-center mounted mast, but also an off-center rudder. It is an affront to right thinking yachtsmen everywhere! Yet not only does the boat work, it's done quite well over the last seven or eight years including winning class 4 in the Everglades Challenge in 2012.

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I think the little blue boat is cute, in a Pug sort of way, and I don't think Pugs are handsome. But, like some Pugs, they are functional and fun.

 

I'd sail it.

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This lifeboat conversion has been sitting in the yard for years- somone did a serviceable job at some point in an attempt at converting a pig's ear into a silk purse.

DSCF2877.jpg

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

I'll be damned! Someone actually designed it? It reminds me of a Pug. Ugly but cute at the same time. I think someone said "Cugly".

No. Just plain ugly, IMO.

I had always assumed that All Boats Are Good, and that any boat is better than no boat, but I have doubts now, having seen Jims Boats. Why would anyone want to do that when there's a world full of functional, inexpensive and attractive vessels to be had?

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

I'll be damned! Someone actually designed it? It reminds me of a Pug. Ugly but cute at the same time. I think someone said "Cugly".

No. Just plain ugly, IMO.

I had always assumed that All Boats Are Good, and that any boat is better than no boat, but I have doubts now, having seen Jims Boats. Why would anyone want to do that when there's a world full of functional, inexpensive and attractive vessels to be had?

You sir are not the kind of person we desire in The Society, aka The Uglyboat Admiration Society or TUBAS. The Membership Committee shall refund your initiation fee promptly, less 20% for processing. Thank you for your interest.

 

:D

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Since we're on the topic of Jim Michalak boats, I think this one is kind of handsome in it's own way and would be proud to sail one. It has the unfortunate name "Blobster", which I think is indicative of Jim's level of amusement with his stuff. He doesn't take himself too seriously and on the one time that I met him he was very pleasant and thoughtful.

 

milesbored.jpg

 

We've got a group of 40 or so small boat sailors going on a 120 mile cruise-in-company in and around Pensacola starting on May 16. There will be at least 5 of Jim's designs on the trip and I'm sure I'll get a chance to observe how well they sail and maybe even take the helm on a couple. Several of them have done this trip in previous years in all kinds of conditions, so I know they sail well enough and aren't 'turds' as some have insinuated. There will certainly be photos and reports for this thread, but only of admiration.

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Since we're on the topic of Jim Michalak boats, I think this one is kind of handsome in it's own way and would be proud to sail one. It has the unfortunate name "Blobster", which I think is indicative of Jim's level of amusement with his stuff. He doesn't take himself too seriously and on the one time that I met him he was very pleasant and thoughtful.

 

milesbored.jpg

 

We've got a group of 40 or so small boat sailors going on a 120 mile cruise-in-company in and around Pensacola starting on May 16. I there will be at least 5 of Jim's designs on the trip and I'm sure I'll get a chance to observe how well they sail and maybe even take the helm on a couple. There will certainly be photos and reports for this thread, but only of admiration.

Nope. Still got a complete sense of humour failure here. Maybe it's a repressed childhood memory of my first boat, the Barry Bucknall designed Puffin that my father lovingly built for me, and in which I felt like the laughing stock of the creek, surrounded as I was by "proper boats" - Cadets, Mirrors and Optimists.

Oh, father forgive me . . .

 

post-38-0-10585100-1368120585_thumb.jpg

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

I'll be damned! Someone actually designed it? It reminds me of a Pug. Ugly but cute at the same time. I think someone said "Cugly".

 

No. Just plain ugly, IMO.

 

I had always assumed that All Boats Are Good, and that any boat is better than no boat, but I have doubts now, having seen Jims Boats. Why would anyone want to do that when there's a world full of functional, inexpensive and attractive vessels to be had?

 

 

Because a lot of times, "functional" turns out to be a case of 'adapt yourself (including your body size) & your activities to the quirks of mass-produced mediocrity' and not too much later you find out that "inexpensive" turns out to be a case of 'really needs new hardware, new lines, oh and all that new hardware needs new fasteners plus caulk, and yeah while you're at it the thing would get upwind a lot better with $X,XXX worth of new sails... plus it's time to paint the bottom again'

 

Don't get me started on "attractive."

 

Not everybody drinks diet soda either.

 

FB- Doug

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Since we're on the topic of Jim Michalak boats, I think this one is kind of handsome in it's own way and would be proud to sail one. It has the unfortunate name "Blobster", which I think is indicative of Jim's level of amusement with his stuff. He doesn't take himself too seriously and on the one time that I met him he was very pleasant and thoughtful.

 

milesbored.jpg

 

We've got a group of 40 or so small boat sailors going on a 120 mile cruise-in-company in and around Pensacola starting on May 16. There will be at least 5 of Jim's designs on the trip and I'm sure I'll get a chance to observe how well they sail and maybe even take the helm on a couple. Several of them have done this trip in previous years in all kinds of conditions, so I know they sail well enough and aren't 'turds' as some have insinuated. There will certainly be photos and reports for this thread, but only of admiration.

 

That's a sitter for the SA expression `the front fell off'!

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So I have a tough time judging ugly, 'cept when it comes to the opposite sex. And up here in MN while there are plenty of blond-haired, blue eyed scandi-queens, the ugly stick borne of the ugly tree grows strong up on the range.

I JUST HAD MY ASS KICKED BY ONE AND I was wrong to paint with such a broad stroke. We have one of the prettiest Iron Rangers there ever was in the form of Winchin Britches :P

 

Did I fix that for you???? She's a foredecker, you know......

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milesbored.jpg

 

Call it mental but there's something about a boat with an open bow and a closed transom that seems "wrong" no matter how functional it is. Clearly though the owners and builders of them like 'em and that's really all that matters.

 

 

It's that way to make beaching easier.

 

milesborec.jpg

 

There are places where this would be a great feature: no wet and/or muddy feet and no calisthenics while boarding. You can hop aboard from dry land and walk straight back to the cockpit. Seems to me to be a good solution for an inshore beach cruiser. But it does look like the front fell off, I have to admit.

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That boat is a Jim Michalak design called IMB, 13'x5'.

 

http://www.jimsboats.com/15feb10.htm

 

I'll be damned! Someone actually designed it? It reminds me of a Pug. Ugly but cute at the same time. I think someone said "Cugly".

 

No. Just plain ugly, IMO.

 

I had always assumed that All Boats Are Good, and that any boat is better than no boat, but I have doubts now, having seen Jims Boats. Why would anyone want to do that when there's a world full of functional, inexpensive and attractive vessels to be had?

 

 

Because a lot of times, "functional" turns out to be a case of 'adapt yourself (including your body size) & your activities to the quirks of mass-produced mediocrity' and not too much later you find out that "inexpensive" turns out to be a case of 'really needs new hardware, new lines, oh and all that new hardware needs new fasteners plus caulk, and yeah while you're at it the thing would get upwind a lot better with $X,XXX worth of new sails... plus it's time to paint the bottom again'

 

Don't get me started on "attractive."

 

Not everybody drinks diet soda either.

 

FB- Doug

 

Besides, some people just like being 'different'. That explains why some people have neck tattoos and most don't. :D

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That's a sitter for the SA expression `the front fell off'!

 

I don't think there is a functional reason for leaving the front open. You could have a removable get if you wanted.

 

I've never been quite sure why JM has the attitude toward aesthetics that his does. He started out in boating building Bolger designs, so I suspect that he wants to avoid sharp bends in the ply planking for the sake of easy building.

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milesbored.jpg

 

Call it mental but there's something about a boat with an open bow and a closed transom that seems "wrong" no matter how functional it is. Clearly though the owners and builders of them like 'em and that's really all that matters.

 

 

It's that way to make beaching easier.

 

milesborec.jpg

 

There are places where this would be a great feature: no wet and/or muddy feet and no calisthenics while boarding. You can hop aboard from dry land and walk straight back to the cockpit. Seems to me to be a good solution for an inshore beach cruiser. But it does look like the front fell off, I have to admit.

Listen up. This 'thing' may have a practical application (which I suggest is sitting high and dry in the middle of a kid's playground) but it is completely ARTLESS, in every sense of the word. There is nothing going for it at all. In short it is UGLY.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats; in fact I don't think anybody has matched his ability to combine classic looks, bringing aesthetics of many different types as well not just one region, and making them into practical and relatively easy to build boats. The HMS Rose is still sailing, for example, along with her baby duckling shallop & pinnace (which are just as great achievements IMHO). Spartina is a another great example.

 

It would be very unfortunate if Bolger were mostly be remembered for his "box boats" but I have personally built & sailed/rowed two of them, and been around a half-dozen more. The ones I know about work. In fact they are a lot more practical than most mass-produced boats of the same size; and only in the post-crash era of dirt-cheap 2nd-hand boats have the mass-produced ones become less expensive to own.

 

FB- Doug

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I've got one to show, but I'm afraid I'll hurt the guy's feelings if I post it. I know a guy building at 10' LOA by 8' beam junk rigged cross between a Bolger Brick, a PDR, and a sampan. It's very solidly built and has what I believe to be the highest D/L ratio and lowest SA/D I've ever seen. The D/L is about 1000 range, the SA/D is probably around 10. Fully loaded displacement with batteries, generator, two electric motors, enough tools to build the thing, two suitcases of beer, and the husband and wife crew is somewhere around 2,000 lbs and it has maybe 100 square feet of upwind sail area. Downwind it flies a polytarp square sail. Its details are almost baffling in their intricacy and clearly he has expended a great deal of mental effort on it.

 

At first I was horrified when I saw what he was planning and made some somewhat snide suggestions about how he might do some things differently. I've since had a change of heart and now I'm quietly rooting for him in this Quixotic endeavor. To me, his creation is more of a kinetic sculpture than it is a boat. It's a wonderful contraption and a testament to one man's very vivid imagination. I'm hesitant to post it because a) he's not finished building it, and b ) he's such a kind, earnest and open guy who doesn't deserve to be piled on. I like him and I don't want to be mean. He's supposed to join us on our Florida120 small boat cruise next week. If he shows, I'll take some pictures and get his permission to post.

 

You've been warned, though. If you hated Blobster I posted above, you are really going to hate this.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats; in fact I don't think anybody has matched his ability to combine classic looks, bringing aesthetics of many different types as well not just one region, and making them into practical and relatively easy to build boats. The HMS Rose is still sailing, for example, along with her baby duckling shallop & pinnace (which are just as great achievements IMHO). Spartina is a another great example.

 

It would be very unfortunate if Bolger were mostly be remembered for his "box boats" but I have personally built & sailed/rowed two of them, and been around a half-dozen more. The ones I know about work. In fact they are a lot more practical than most mass-produced boats of the same size; and only in the post-crash era of dirt-cheap 2nd-hand boats have the mass-produced ones become less expensive to own.

 

FB- Doug

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

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I've got one to show, but I'm afraid I'll hurt the guy's feelings if I post it. I know a guy building at 10' LOA by 8' beam junk rigged cross between a Bolger Brick, a PDR, and a sampan. It's very solidly built and has what I believe to be the highest D/L ratio and lowest SA/D I've ever seen. The D/L is about 1000 range, the SA/D is probably around 10. Fully loaded displacement with batteries, generator, two electric motors, enough tools to build the thing, two suitcases of beer, and the husband and wife crew is somewhere around 2,000 lbs and it has maybe 100 square feet of upwind sail area. Downwind it flies a polytarp square sail. Its details are almost baffling in their intricacy and clearly he has expended a great deal of mental effort on it.

 

At first I was horrified when I saw what he was planning and made some somewhat snide suggestions about how he might do some things differently. I've since had a change of heart and now I'm quietly rooting for him in this Quixotic endeavor. To me, his creation is more of a kinetic sculpture than it is a boat. It's a wonderful contraption and a testament to one man's very vivid imagination. I'm hesitant to post it because a) he's not finished building it, and b ) he's such a kind, earnest and open guy who doesn't deserve to be piled on. I like him and I don't want to be mean. He's supposed to join us on our Florida120 small boat cruise next week. If he shows, I'll take some pictures and get his permission to post.

 

You've been warned, though. If you hated Blobster I posted above, you are really going to hate this.

Post it on the cool boats thread.
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I have to respectfully (for a change) disagree JonB. Bolger was all about form.

 

Bolger was a master of proportion. I find lots of beauty in his box boats. I don't think Bolger had it in him to draw and ugly line. But like so many extremely talented people, Beeethoven comes to mind, they do once and a while like to see just how much they can get away with. Beethoven's last quartets for example and his famous comeback to the lady who told him she didn't like them. It went something like, "You're not supposed to like them. I didn't write them for you." I think made Bolger happy to play with shapes that would have confounded most designers. My guess is that he was amusing himelf and mass apeal was not part of the target.

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I have to respectfully (for a change) disagree JonB. Bolger was all about form.

 

Bolger was a master of proportion. I find lots of beauty in his box boats. I don't think Bolger had it in him to draw and ugly line. But like so many extremely talented people, Beeethoven comes to mind, they do once and a while like to see just how much they can get away with. Beethoven's last quartets for example and his famous comeback to the lady who told him she didn't like them. It went something like, "You're not supposed to like them. I didn't write them for you." I think made Bolger happy to play with shapes that would have confounded most designers. My guess is that he was amusing himelf and mass apeal was not part of the target.

I got my first sailing experience in a real, old fashioned stone boat - one of those old wooden troughs that concrete was mixed in. It had a sapling mast and bedsheet sail and was assembled by a couple of 11 & 12 year old brothers. It didn't leak so I guess it was an early variant of a ferro boat. I still remember it as one of the best days I ever had on the water but it was OGLY. I've never been much of a fan of corners or flat panels on boats.

 

I'll bow to your eye Bob but I'd rather have one of your boats than anything PB ever drew - even (or especially) one of your cartoon boats.

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I have to respectfully (for a change) disagree JonB. Bolger was all about form.

 

Bolger was a master of proportion. I find lots of beauty in his box boats. I don't think Bolger had it in him to draw and ugly line. But like so many extremely talented people, Beeethoven comes to mind, they do once and a while like to see just how much they can get away with. Beethoven's last quartets for example and his famous comeback to the lady who told him she didn't like them. It went something like, "You're not supposed to like them. I didn't write them for you." I think made Bolger happy to play with shapes that would have confounded most designers. My guess is that he was amusing himelf and mass apeal was not part of the target.

 

 

Ruben Trane of Florida Bay Boats commissioned a couple designs from Bolger. He described how Bolger asked for a list of desired characteristics in order of importance, and said that was what you got. So, if you put appearance last, he paid scant attention to appearance.

 

Bolger appreciated a challenge, and he took on a lot of projects that seemed pretty much impossible. I'm thinking here of long boats that come apart for trailering and the like. Some of these were successful, some were not. He was sometimes a bit less than candid about disappointments, but he was really tickled when he was successful.

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My recollection is that the title of this thread has admiration in it. I appreciate your sensitivity Mister Moon, but Im sure I'll defend this fellow's boat, and I haven't seen it yet- your description gets the point across perfectly.

 

I love 'em.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats...

 

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

 

Not the first time I've missed a point, sorry about that.

 

However if you want to follow a philosophical conundrum, why else is there form? There is a difference between a boat and a painting. It's certainly valid to regard boats as dynamic sculpture; but at the end of the day the fact remains they have a job to do.

 

Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

FB- Doug

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I have to respectfully (for a change) disagree JonB. Bolger was all about form.

 

Bolger was a master of proportion. I find lots of beauty in his box boats. I don't think Bolger had it in him to draw and ugly line. But like so many extremely talented people, Beeethoven comes to mind, they do once and a while like to see just how much they can get away with. Beethoven's last quartets for example and his famous comeback to the lady who told him she didn't like them. It went something like, "You're not supposed to like them. I didn't write them for you." I think made Bolger happy to play with shapes that would have confounded most designers. My guess is that he was amusing himelf and mass apeal was not part of the target.

Thanks. I didn't know that about the Late Quartets. They have always been my favorite. I heard them played in Vienna in a small venue at one of the palaces. Locals sobbed openly. It was really something.

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My recollection is that the title of this thread has admiration in it. I appreciate your sensitivity Mister Moon, but Im sure I'll defend this fellow's boat, and I haven't seen it yet- your description gets the point across perfectly.

 

I love 'em.

 

This one has been on the internet a long time, so I feel OK posting it here. This is my guy's previous creation, based on an 8 foot PDR hull. Alas, it never saw the water having been destroyed in a hurricane.

 

It was mostly a blessing that it was never launched because I'm afraid the poor builder would have been dismayed that it would would have barely floated and certainly never been able to sail. Like I said, it's more of a kinetic sculpture, a piece of performance art built for our amusement and wonder. I love the sampan-style eyes on the bow, the faux lapstrake sides and the in-your-face color pallette. His new boat is even more wonderful and amazing than this if you can believe it. For one, I know for a fact his new boat floats because he launched the incomplete hull earlier this week to check trim and stability.

 

90679099404913003722.jpg

 

Edit: had to upload the image to a new host as the original site did not allow me to hotlink it.

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SemI:

Phil? "less than candid about dissapointments"?

Not when I talked to him.

I asked him about the big square sail he flew from the mizzen on MOCCASIN. He said it didn't work at all and he just laughed. I thought we was very candid about that failure.

 

Southern:

The last movement of the last quartet was the Gross Fugue was so hated by LBV's friends that they presurred him to rewrite it. Today the rewritten movement is seldom played and the Gross Fugue is considered perhaps the greatest of all LVB's works. Go figure. He was writing for ears that didn't exist at the time and drawing from music in the head of a deaf man that no one else could hear or imagine.

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SemI:

Phil? "less than candid about disappointments"?

Not when I talked to him.

I asked him about the big square sail he flew from the mizzen on MOCCASIN. He said it didn't work at all and he just laughed. I thought we was very candid about that failure.

 

I stand corrected. I can remember some other mistakes that he wrote about candidly as well.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats; in fact I don't think anybody has matched his ability to combine classic looks, bringing aesthetics of many different types as well not just one region, and making them into practical and relatively easy to build boats. The HMS Rose is still sailing, for example, along with her baby duckling shallop & pinnace (which are just as great achievements IMHO). Spartina is a another great example.

 

It would be very unfortunate if Bolger were mostly be remembered for his "box boats" but I have personally built & sailed/rowed two of them, and been around a half-dozen more. The ones I know about work. In fact they are a lot more practical than most mass-produced boats of the same size; and only in the post-crash era of dirt-cheap 2nd-hand boats have the mass-produced ones become less expensive to own.

 

FB- Doug

 

Indeed - take a look at the Chebacco - it's a proper little boat.

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I've got one to show, but I'm afraid I'll hurt the guy's feelings if I post it. I know a guy building at 10' LOA by 8' beam junk rigged cross between a Bolger Brick, a PDR, and a sampan. It's very solidly built and has what I believe to be the highest D/L ratio and lowest SA/D I've ever seen. The D/L is about 1000 range, the SA/D is probably around 10. Fully loaded displacement with batteries, generator, two electric motors, enough tools to build the thing, two suitcases of beer, and the husband and wife crew is somewhere around 2,000 lbs and it has maybe 100 square feet of upwind sail area. Downwind it flies a polytarp square sail. Its details are almost baffling in their intricacy and clearly he has expended a great deal of mental effort on it.

 

At first I was horrified when I saw what he was planning and made some somewhat snide suggestions about how he might do some things differently. I've since had a change of heart and now I'm quietly rooting for him in this Quixotic endeavor. To me, his creation is more of a kinetic sculpture than it is a boat. It's a wonderful contraption and a testament to one man's very vivid imagination. I'm hesitant to post it because a) he's not finished building it, and b ) he's such a kind, earnest and open guy who doesn't deserve to be piled on. I like him and I don't want to be mean. He's supposed to join us on our Florida120 small boat cruise next week. If he shows, I'll take some pictures and get his permission to post.

 

You've been warned, though. If you hated Blobster I posted above, you are really going to hate this.

Hey, MisterM. I do appreciate your sensibilities. But if there's no pic, it never happened. I've gotta see this thing.

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SemI:

Phil? "less than candid about dissapointments"?

Not when I talked to him.

I asked him about the big square sail he flew from the mizzen on MOCCASIN. He said it didn't work at all and he just laughed. I thought we was very candid about that failure.

 

Southern:

The last movement of the last quartet was the Gross Fugue was so hated by LBV's friends that they presurred him to rewrite it. Today the rewritten movement is seldom played and the Gross Fugue is considered perhaps the greatest of all LVB's works. Go figure. He was writing for ears that didn't exist at the time and drawing from music in the head of a deaf man that no one else could hear or imagine.

 

I just listened to about a third of it. It's not a sit back and sip your brandy and relax kind of music. It makes you work to hear it. Maybe that's why it annoyed so.

 

It was interesting. I liked it.

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Semi:

Well, that's more like it. Don't let it happen again.

 

I made a mistake too. The Grosse Fuge was not in LBV's last quartet. It was in op.130. His last quartet was op. 135.

Forgiven. Music. I don't want to high jack this thread but I could go on and on. I regularly went to the LA Philharmonic under Esa Pekka Solonen and the NY Phil and the Aspen Music Festival, Santa Fe, Sydney Opera House, La Scala .... Can't play anything worth a damn though. This was all on a budget too by the way. I'm no benefactor.

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I've got one to show, but I'm afraid I'll hurt the guy's feelings if I post it. I know a guy building at 10' LOA by 8' beam junk rigged cross between a Bolger Brick, a PDR, and a sampan. It's very solidly built and has what I believe to be the highest D/L ratio and lowest SA/D I've ever seen. The D/L is about 1000 range, the SA/D is probably around 10. Fully loaded displacement with batteries, generator, two electric motors, enough tools to build the thing, two suitcases of beer, and the husband and wife crew is somewhere around 2,000 lbs and it has maybe 100 square feet of upwind sail area. Downwind it flies a polytarp square sail. Its details are almost baffling in their intricacy and clearly he has expended a great deal of mental effort on it.

 

At first I was horrified when I saw what he was planning and made some somewhat snide suggestions about how he might do some things differently. I've since had a change of heart and now I'm quietly rooting for him in this Quixotic endeavor. To me, his creation is more of a kinetic sculpture than it is a boat. It's a wonderful contraption and a testament to one man's very vivid imagination. I'm hesitant to post it because a) he's not finished building it, and b ) he's such a kind, earnest and open guy who doesn't deserve to be piled on. I like him and I don't want to be mean. He's supposed to join us on our Florida120 small boat cruise next week. If he shows, I'll take some pictures and get his permission to post.

 

You've been warned, though. If you hated Blobster I posted above, you are really going to hate this.

Hey, MisterM. I do appreciate your sensibilities. But if there's no pic, it never happened. I've gotta see this thing.

+1

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I've got one to show, but I'm afraid I'll hurt the guy's feelings if I post it. I know a guy building at 10' LOA by 8' beam junk rigged cross between a Bolger Brick, a PDR, and a sampan. It's very solidly built and has what I believe to be the highest D/L ratio and lowest SA/D I've ever seen. The D/L is about 1000 range, the SA/D is probably around 10. Fully loaded displacement with batteries, generator, two electric motors, enough tools to build the thing, two suitcases of beer, and the husband and wife crew is somewhere around 2,000 lbs and it has maybe 100 square feet of upwind sail area. Downwind it flies a polytarp square sail. Its details are almost baffling in their intricacy and clearly he has expended a great deal of mental effort on it.

 

At first I was horrified when I saw what he was planning and made some somewhat snide suggestions about how he might do some things differently. I've since had a change of heart and now I'm quietly rooting for him in this Quixotic endeavor. To me, his creation is more of a kinetic sculpture than it is a boat. It's a wonderful contraption and a testament to one man's very vivid imagination. I'm hesitant to post it because a) he's not finished building it, and b ) he's such a kind, earnest and open guy who doesn't deserve to be piled on. I like him and I don't want to be mean. He's supposed to join us on our Florida120 small boat cruise next week. If he shows, I'll take some pictures and get his permission to post.

 

You've been warned, though. If you hated Blobster I posted above, you are really going to hate this.

Hey, MisterM. I do appreciate your sensibilities. But if there's no pic, it never happened. I've gotta see this thing.

+1

See post #1942 for an idea of what's to come. Otherwise you'll all just have to sit in suspense.

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My recollection is that the title of this thread has admiration in it. I appreciate your sensitivity Mister Moon, but Im sure I'll defend this fellow's boat, and I haven't seen it yet- your description gets the point across perfectly.

 

I love 'em.

 

This one has been on the internet a long time, so I feel OK posting it here. This is my guy's previous creation, based on an 8 foot PDR hull. Alas, it never saw the water having been destroyed in a hurricane.

 

It was mostly a blessing that it was never launched because I'm afraid the poor builder would have been dismayed that it would would have barely floated and certainly never been able to sail. Like I said, it's more of a kinetic sculpture, a piece of performance art built for our amusement and wonder. I love the sampan-style eyes on the bow, the faux lapstrake sides and the in-your-face color pallette. His new boat is even more wonderful and amazing than this if you can believe it. For one, I know for a fact his new boat floats because he launched the incomplete hull earlier this week to check trim and stability.

 

90679099404913003722.jpg

 

Edit: had to upload the image to a new host as the original site did not allow me to hotlink it.

This is a wonderful expression of fun - as the centrepiece for a kids playground. As a boat to take to sea - FAIL.

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...His new boat is even more wonderful and amazing than this if you can believe it. ...

 

90679099404913003722.jpg

Hah! No doubt the only thing that funny looking on Ku's server. ;)

 

Plenty to admire there. I'm taken aback and don't know where to start.

 

I agree with the others that you should post away on the current project. Heck, I put the Cowmaran in this thread and I love that boat.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats...

 

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

 

Not the first time I've missed a point, sorry about that.

 

However if you want to follow a philosophical conundrum, why else is there form? There is a difference between a boat and a painting. It's certainly valid to regard boats as dynamic sculpture; but at the end of the day the fact remains they have a job to do.

 

Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

FB- Doug

But, whatever the job, it is always possible to accomplish it while singing in key. The Blobster hurts my ears.

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Hah! No doubt the only thing that funny looking on Ku's server. ;)

 

Plenty to admire there. I'm taken aback and don't know where to start.

 

I agree with the others that you should post away on the current project. Heck, I put the Cowmaran in this thread and I love that boat.

 

Well, y'all are just going to have to wait. I'm not going to post photos from his facebook albums. I'll wait until I can take my own photos, hopefully next week.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats...

 

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

 

Not the first time I've missed a point, sorry about that.

 

However if you want to follow a philosophical conundrum, why else is there form? There is a difference between a boat and a painting. It's certainly valid to regard boats as dynamic sculpture; but at the end of the day the fact remains they have a job to do.

 

Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

FB- Doug

Ironic you should choose that particular illustration. In reality, women with big boobs very frequently have great difficulty breast feeding. They may look great etc. but they frequently don't work well. :D

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Owning a French built production ketch which despite her looks sails very well I've come to understand that many

quite nice looking hulls are drastically disimproved in looks by the builders greed for space down below.

Though very practical for family or charter use they invariably go too far in making changes to a basically sound design.

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from the Martinez Marina, I saw this and thought of you guys:

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

 

 

Thanks for thinking of us!

 

Now we know what is worse than a mast on a motorboat. A mast and bowsprit on a square motorboat, of course! Why didn't I think of that?

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from the Martinez Marina, I saw this and thought of you guys:

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

 

 

Thanks for thinking of us!

 

Now we know what is worse than a mast on a motorboat. A mast and bowsprit on a square motorboat, of course! Why didn't I think of that?

Is that a motorboat? And here's me thinking it's a budget condo. Nice front steps though.

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they were only designed to make money.

For whom? front-fell-off-reputter-onners?

 

hay, lumber, salt, oyster dredging , whatever it took to make money. They could lay in the mud, load in the mud, pole in the mud... definitely ugly. But money making ugly. Here's the Alma.

Real_Alma.jpg

At least this one's got rat lines. Deck house doesn't look too bad either. As far as a working scow goes, she's not so hard on the eye. Clearly not all scows are created equal.

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from the Martinez Marina, I saw this and thought of you guys:

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

Somethin' for everyone here...

 

Sideways butterfly hatch for Bob. Never thought of that did ya?

 

Gaff rig for the crab crushers; if you didn't think it'd be slow enough already.

 

Safety netting and ships wheel for the Aubrey/Maturin enthusiasts

 

Samson post from the Queen mary as a lesson to us all

 

Chain plates that go on forever as a testament to seaworthiness.

 

One problem .... it has a pretty tender.

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I believe in form following function but there's a limit. Bolger's boats and the others like them crossed that line several times a day.

 

Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats...

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

Not the first time I've missed a point, sorry about that.

 

However if you want to follow a philosophical conundrum, why else is there form? There is a difference between a boat and a painting. It's certainly valid to regard boats as dynamic sculpture; but at the end of the day the fact remains they have a job to do.

 

Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

FB- Doug

 

Ironic you should choose that particular illustration. In reality, women with big boobs very frequently have great difficulty breast feeding. They may look great etc. but they frequently don't work well. :D

If god made boobs for men he would have filled them with beer.

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O/K people - is it uglier or better looking than that RoRo carrier on the other side of the river?

 

I say better looking because it has a mast with a gaff & ratlines and a sprit with netting.

 

Gawd those RoRo ships are ugly - I'd be ashamed to work on one of them.

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I suspect there might be a sticker on the back of the green scow that says "When I grow up I want to be a Ro-Ro".

 

The tender is an interesting choice in priorities- I'm more used to seeing a lovely classic wooden sailboat up this way dragging an inflatable.

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I suspect there might be a sticker on the back of the green scow that says "When I grow up I want to be a Ro-Ro".

 

The tender is an interesting choice in priorities- I'm more used to seeing a lovely classic wooden sailboat up this way dragging an inflatable.

 

 

I noticed that too. Nice little boat, maybe he had that one first... or maybe built it first and drastically rearranged his priorities...

 

FB- Doug

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Bolger did a scow schooner. He said it took him a long time to figure out how to make it work. I tried sketching a smaller version, and I some of idea of what he was taking about. For example, the front porch is crucial to sheeting the jib.

 

post-5724-0-51514900-1368279752_thumb.gif

 

post-5724-0-80043900-1368279791_thumb.gif

 

 

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Have you sailed them? How can you say their level of functionality if not?

 

One biggy to remember- Phil Bolger designed a lot of beautiful boats...

You missed my point. I'm sure they work well, I simply meant that they are ONLY function - form not only followed, it never entered the equation with them.

Not the first time I've missed a point, sorry about that.

 

However if you want to follow a philosophical conundrum, why else is there form? There is a difference between a boat and a painting. It's certainly valid to regard boats as dynamic sculpture; but at the end of the day the fact remains they have a job to do.

 

Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

FB- Doug

 

Ironic you should choose that particular illustration. In reality, women with big boobs very frequently have great difficulty breast feeding. They may look great etc. but they frequently don't work well. :D

If god made boobs for men he would have filled them with beer.

 

I look at big tits and think "they bigger they are, the further they sag"

Pert beats big every time a coconut.

Now what was this "purpose" you spoke of?

I'm a leg man.

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Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

 

Ironic you should choose that particular illustration. In reality, women with big boobs very frequently have great difficulty breast feeding. They may look great etc. but they frequently don't work well. :D

If god made boobs for men he would have filled them with beer.

 

I look at big tits and think "they bigger they are, the further they sag"

Pert beats big every time a coconut.

Now what was this "purpose" you spoke of?

I'm a leg man.

 

 

Those of you who don't "believe in" evolution can feel free to skip this post.

 

Bigger mammaries generally do give more milk, although small ones can provide plenty for a baby. Artificially enlarged breass obviously do not have have better lactation.

 

In a state of non-indusrialized food production (ie little or no processed sugar) a womans figure (hips, waist, and bosom) indicates her ability to bear children and also her fertility. Emaciated supermodels only look "beautiful" to gay clothing designers, most men's instinct is to choose a woman who looks like she will be able to bear & nourish healthy children.

 

In the same manner, the symmetry of a face is the single highest selection factor in "good looks" for both men and women; an indicator of several reproduction factors- good genes and good nutrition primarily.

 

FB- Doug

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It's no better from starboard, SthrnX. But it (I'm reluctant to say, 'she') does look like it's sporting lee board. Bet that sails like... well, I can't think of anything it might sail like actually, apart from a turd.

 

Maybe it's really a floating hot dog stand and the 'lee board' is a fold-away table. The dogs are served out that nice big picture window, which probably slides. :)

 

Where did you find this beauty anyway?

I'd buy a hot dog if it sailed up next to me or visa versa.

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Utility is beauty. There is a very definite and material reason why men prefer large boobs!

 

 

Ironic you should choose that particular illustration. In reality, women with big boobs very frequently have great difficulty breast feeding. They may look great etc. but they frequently don't work well. :D

If god made boobs for men he would have filled them with beer.

 

I look at big tits and think "they bigger they are, the further they sag"

Pert beats big every time a coconut.

Now what was this "purpose" you spoke of?

I'm a leg man.

 

 

Those of you who don't "believe in" evolution can feel free to skip this post.

 

Bigger mammaries generally do give more milk, although small ones can provide plenty for a baby. Artificially enlarged breass obviously do not have have better lactation.

 

In a state of non-indusrialized food production (ie little or no processed sugar) a womans figure (hips, waist, and bosom) indicates her ability to bear children and also her fertility. Emaciated supermodels only look "beautiful" to gay clothing designers, most men's instinct is to choose a woman who looks like she will be able to bear & nourish healthy children.

 

In the same manner, the symmetry of a face is the single highest selection factor in "good looks" for both men and women; an indicator of several reproduction factors- good genes and good nutrition primarily.

 

FB- Doug

If breasts are there to hold milk, why don't you see them on other primates? Me, I'm of the opinion that they are there to attract males. I think that's why I like them.

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from the Martinez Marina, I saw this and thought of you guys:

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

Somethin' for everyone here...

 

Sideways butterfly hatch for Bob. Never thought of that did ya?

 

Gaff rig for the crab crushers; if you didn't think it'd be slow enough already.

 

Safety netting and ships wheel for the Aubrey/Maturin enthusiasts

 

Samson post from the Queen mary as a lesson to us all

 

Chain plates that go on forever as a testament to seaworthiness.

 

One problem .... it has a pretty tender.

It needs some windshield wipers. Do you suppose the companionway is off center?

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9TZIZ.AuSt.9.jpeg

 

This lives in the Beaufort River.

 

Writeup in the paper:

 

http://www.islandpacket.com/2012/09/29/2227865/strange-boat-afloat-with-mystery.html

 

I'll get pics of the floating chicken coop on the Whale Branch next trip out to Sheldon SC

Regards

INFIDEL

"People coming into Beaufort, they see that," (Jennings) said. "It's somebody's homemade project that should be in their yard or at their dock and not as a reception to Beaufort." Ha, ha. I'm not surprised the locals aren't impressed. What a blot on the waterscape.

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from the Martinez Marina, I saw this and thought of you guys:

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

Somethin' for everyone here...

 

Sideways butterfly hatch for Bob. Never thought of that did ya?

 

Gaff rig for the crab crushers; if you didn't think it'd be slow enough already.

 

Safety netting and ships wheel for the Aubrey/Maturin enthusiasts

 

Samson post from the Queen mary as a lesson to us all

 

Chain plates that go on forever as a testament to seaworthiness.

 

One problem .... it has a pretty tender.

It needs some windshield wipers. Do you suppose the companionway is off center?

She's far too much of a sea boat for that.

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To me, the thing is this:

 

8727689282_c3618a405b_c.jpg

 

In this case, they took an ugly thing, and dressed it up to make it look better.

 

 

But here:

 

9TZIZ.AuSt.9.jpeg

 

They took a pretty thing and made it ugly.

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I'm not sure that hanging a nice dink on the back counts as dressing up the houseboat scow.

 

As for the sailboat-turned-houseboat motorboat, at least they ditched the mast. It's super-ugly, but I admire it as good way for a person on a tight budget to get a trawler. Real trawlers are darn pricey, but old sailboats are pretty cheap.

 

It does need a nice dink on the back.

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According to the search function, guitars were mentioned in this thread, so I'm putting this here. Just because.

 

charismatic-desires-22156448442.jpg

 

from http://neversealand.downtothesea.org/

 

I think it's beautiful, in a slightly kitschy sort of way.

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Ugly, and interesting at the same time.

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photo_gallery.jsp?slim=broker&&photo=7&boat_id=2249906&ybw=&boatname=19%27+Microship+&hosturl=swiftsure&photo_name=Cockpit&noOfPic=7

 

wordplaydock.jpg

 

 

In a 19' boat things like:

"The hydraulics for landing gear and rudder involve 13 cylinders, interconnected in variants of back-to-back (with multiple cylinder summing in the landing-gear steering and a kickup valve in rudder deployment). Without actively pressurized hydraulics, this is simple... as long as the volumes are balanced. This manifold, with a valve per circuit and a reservoir of fluid, allows the whole system to be quickly calibrated by simply opening associated valves, positioning drive and target cylinders as needed, and closing the valves."

 

 

 

972443_0_20100811130510_2_0.jpg&w=400&h=

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