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Hello beauty... :wub: 

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On 1/21/2021 at 10:02 AM, Kris Cringle said:

Bulwarks.

Bulwarks.thumb.jpg.4abcdf29a19083fb3125d2bca6be4788.jpg

I stand corrected. A poster on WB has a more in-depth definition of bulwarks. These are toe rails, just toe rails. 

So I thought I would check the definition in my Sailing Dictionary (published by Adlard Coles) rather than search the web for a definition that suited my reasoning...it appears the definition you have may have missed off the vital end part ...higher than a toe rail, sometimes knee-high but more often hip-high.
I would consider those on the photograph a toe rail. As they don’t keep out the sea, they aren’t knee high or above, and the won’t prevent crew falling overboard.
 
 

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24 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I stand corrected. A poster on WB has a more in-depth definition of bulwarks. These are toe rails, just toe rails. 

So I thought I would check the definition in my Sailing Dictionary (published by Adlard Coles) rather than search the web for a definition that suited my reasoning...it appears the definition you have may have missed off the vital end part ...higher than a toe rail, sometimes knee-high but more often hip-high.
I would consider those on the photograph a toe rail. As they don’t keep out the sea, they aren’t knee high or above, and the won’t prevent crew falling overboard.

I wonder has usage shifted?

I always understood bulwarks to be a continuation of the hull, as in the example above .. whereas a toe rail is a structure added separately.

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I wonder has usage shifted?

I always understood bulwarks to be a continuation of the hull, as in the example above .. whereas a toe rail is a structure added separately.

And you would be correct.

Kris's definition is actually a brace for using an astrolabe.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

And you would be correct.

Kris's definition is actually a brace for using an astrolabe.

Coles definition which does carry some weight(I think?).

To be fair, the concensus on WB was about 50/50. I think EU respondents leaned a bit more toward 'toe rail' or 'raised toe rail' instead of bulwark. And also, many of these respondents are boat builders working on traditional craft. 

Those terms seem weak in the case of that bulwark (if you choose) that is on a K. Aage Neilsen yawl(SOLUTION). It's so stout and obviously a continuation of the planking. It looks good in a lens.

Most definitions of bulwark are generic and simply state 'above deck' which could mean, toerails are bulwarks. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Coles definition which does carry some weight(I think?).

To be fair, the concensus on WB was about 50/50. I think EU respondents leaned a bit more toward 'toe rail' or 'raised toe rail' instead of bulwark. And also, many of these respondents are boat builders working on traditional craft. 

Those terms seem weak in the case of that bulwark (if you choose) that is on a K. Aage Neilsen yawl(SOLUTION). It's so stout and obviously a continuation of the planking. It looks good in a lens.

Most definitions of bulwark are generic and simply state 'above deck' which could mean, toerails are bulwarks. 

 

 

She is stunning under sail. Built for Thor Ramsing. 

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10 hours ago, slap said:

I think I ran into her in Tenants Harbor a couple years back. She was striking enough in the flesh to merit a small detour.

I feel insecure when I see boats with such straightforward rigging and deck layouts like that when I look at the rats-nest that things like the lazy jacks, runners..etc.. create on mine. 

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22 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Coles definition which does carry some weight(I think?).

To be fair, the concensus on WB was about 50/50. I think EU respondents leaned a bit more toward 'toe rail' or 'raised toe rail' instead of bulwark. And also, many of these respondents are boat builders working on traditional craft. 

Those terms seem weak in the case of that bulwark (if you choose) that is on a K. Aage Neilsen yawl(SOLUTION). It's so stout and obviously a continuation of the planking. It looks good in a lens.

Most definitions of bulwark are generic and simply state 'above deck' which could mean, toerails are bulwarks. 

 

 

Perhaps the Navy term is gunwales? USN ship design seemed to prefer them and some of the navies that operate in the N. Atlantic and Pacific favor rounding off the meeting of hull and deck, probably to better shed heavy seas.

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17 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

She is stunning under sail. Built for Thor Ramsing. 

A good friend of mine that has owned several K Aage Neilsen boats, says boats like SOLUTION were the greyhounds of the sea in their day (50,60's). SOLUTION has no access from the cockpit. With dorade boxes and big high cowls to keep fresh air flowing, the boat looks designed to close up like a submarine at sea. 

The bulwarks or raised toerails (your choice) are no doubt appreciated as you move from the cockpit to mid-ship hatchway. 

 

Solution_.thumb.jpg.1a8073c2b01d7d33657c600271cb71f1.jpg

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4 hours ago, Elegua said:

I think I ran into her in Tenants Harbor a couple years back. She was striking enough in the flesh to merit a small detour.

I feel insecure when I see boats with such straightforward rigging and deck layouts like that when I look at the rats-nest that things like the lazy jacks, runners..etc.. create on mine. 

I don't have any good photos of TIDAL WAVE except this one that my dog photo bombed. 

2111465592_TidalWavecrop2.jpg.99d07000b35ad19b8904f66a428195e1.jpg

Another Philip Rhodes of similar design is DOG STAR. 86 years old, she is also in the area. 

1911182478_DogStarEggemogginsunset644(1of1).thumb.jpg.98bdc5da821d78bbbb9e5a0b553f5072.jpg

These are nice old boats but definitely a step back in time in sailboat design. I think their lines tend to grow on some people perhaps looking for a little nostalgia. 

Rhodes got better as a designer, at least for my eye. 

PIERA talks to me and it too is a bit dated. But he was starting to get the idea,....

1285278035_Pierabeam(1of1).thumb.jpg.31445d56d180da2eec8b5ca794110940.jpg

 

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12 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I don't have any good photos of TIDAL WAVE except this one that my dog photo bombed. 

2111465592_TidalWavecrop2.jpg.99d07000b35ad19b8904f66a428195e1.jpg

Another Philip Rhodes of similar design is DOG STAR. 86 years old, she is also in the area. 

1911182478_DogStarEggemogginsunset644(1of1).thumb.jpg.98bdc5da821d78bbbb9e5a0b553f5072.jpg

These are nice old boats but definitely a step back in time in sailboat design. I think their lines tend to grow on some people perhaps looking for a little nostalgia. 

Rhodes got better as a designer, at least for my eye. 

PIERA talks to me and it too is a bit dated. But he was starting to get the idea,....

1285278035_Pierabeam(1of1).thumb.jpg.31445d56d180da2eec8b5ca794110940.jpg

 

That's a great photo-bomb! I've seen Dog Star as well. The Dog Start type ketches stand out. They seem like an older style boat, even for the time they were built.  Is it fair to say the difference in design between Tidal Wave and Piera seems much greater than say, Peira and the 80's. 

 

 

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IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

image.png.c2cf09e352d8d7888d60510d6aa54fbd.png

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3 hours ago, kinardly said:

Perhaps the Navy term is gunwales? USN ship design seemed to prefer them and some of the navies that operate in the N. Atlantic and Pacific favor rounding off the meeting of hull and deck, probably to better shed heavy seas.

Some of that roundness was done so as to improve the thoroughness and efficiency of the water wash down system - it's important to get all those radioactive particles off the ship post nuclear attack - or so a USNA engineering officer told me about 50 years ago.:ph34r:

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13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

I m not really a motorsailer fan, but I have vague memories of some pretty stunning Camper & Nicholson motorsailers, and some more muscular-but-still-handsome Laurent Giles designs.  But that Rhodes design is certainly up there with the best of them, and possibly ahead.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

image.png.c2cf09e352d8d7888d60510d6aa54fbd.png

That's peak motorsailor. There's a good chance I made a mooring bridle for this vessel as a teenager. 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

image.png.c2cf09e352d8d7888d60510d6aa54fbd.png

I prefer that cabintop to this one.

C_vjF9D1JgsWkQVElDVjWigYmxrxqM2m2cdkU981

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

I m not really a motorsailer fan, but I have vague memories of some pretty stunning Camper & Nicholson motorsailers, and some more muscular-but-still-handsome Laurent Giles designs.  But that Rhodes design is certainly up there with the best of them, and possibly ahead.

I've seen many good looking motorsailers but almost all of them were best described by words like stout, purposeful, handsome etc.

Beautiful is not a word that springs to mind with most but is does with the big Rhodes like Sea Diamond and the 77's.

Some people regard the Nicholson 48 as a M/S and it certainly qualifies.

image.png.371883b7da5b0a4828bbb0af2e6cdcf9.png

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5 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I prefer that cabintop to this one.

C_vjF9D1JgsWkQVElDVjWigYmxrxqM2m2cdkU981

It's amazing how another 40' of hull can smooth things out. :D

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7 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen many good looking motorsailers but almost all of them were best described by words like stout, purposeful, handsome etc.

Beautiful is not a word that springs to mind with most but is does with the big Rhodes like Sea Diamond and the 77's.

Some people regard the Nicholson 48 as a M/S and it certainly qualifies.

image.png.371883b7da5b0a4828bbb0af2e6cdcf9.png

C&N used to do nice sheerlines. and i can see a nice sheer on that Nich 48.  Not great, but v good.

However, the covered cockpit all looks a bit wedding cake, and saloon windows are a bit jarring.

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Strictly for the Scandafetishists out there (raises hand) ... and you'd want to make reeeeeaaalll certain about the teak deck integrity ... but in the "Swan Lite" category, here's a nice Kalik 40 (Gary Mull) for 30k:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Kalik-40-Racer-Cruiser-Liveaboard-Sailboat/193835240820?hash=item2d217b0d74:g:838AAOSwlDNfFaeO

 

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The only Korean boats I've seen up close were some Peterson 33's.

They were very nice builds.

I suspect those Kaliks would be similar.

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59 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Strictly for the Scandafetishists out there (raises hand) ... and you'd want to make reeeeeaaalll certain about the teak deck integrity ... but in the "Swan Lite" category, here's a nice Kalik 40 (Gary Mull) for 30k:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Kalik-40-Racer-Cruiser-Liveaboard-Sailboat/193835240820?hash=item2d217b0d74:g:838AAOSwlDNfFaeO

596070539_offsetcompanionwayonGaryMull-designedKalik40.thumb.jpg.ed7e8f07dff99c5a2faa7f6a3896f75f.jpgSafety warning: that boat has an offset companionway.  You will die!

 

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27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The only Korean boats I've seen up close were some Peterson 33's.

They were very nice builds.

I suspect those Kaliks would be similar.

I commissioned a Kalik - under all the teak they were crude

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

image.png.c2cf09e352d8d7888d60510d6aa54fbd.png

 

True dat.

Kamalli.

DgQPAcg.jpg

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Jack Laurent Giles's Blue Leopard

Blue Leopard Yacht for Sale Wm. Osbourne &.. | superyachts.com

Plus two Rolls-Royce diesels under the bonnet, giving 15Kts.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Elegua said:

 Is it fair to say the difference in design between Tidal Wave and Piera seems much greater than say, Peira and the 80's. 

 

 

I think so. TIDAL WAVE seems older than her age. In that era Rhodes had more innovative designs. This yawl of his I believe is a 30's design. It was already taking on some of the elements of the CCA rule era to come, to my eye. 

2020805581_Rhodesdecks(1of1).thumb.jpg.5888f2074f6748f09823300f63322486.jpg

This 1938 Rhodes Astro is owned by some kids. It gets sailed a lot because they know how to sail and this old boat is fun! Threading the needle between a half a mil of Concordias of the same design year(s), it looks from a newer design era. 

53083919_RhodesAstroVixenConcordia2.thumb.jpg.c05562807d654937a60ff8542f0f1911.jpg

I'd say it's a progressive 1938 design. 

707041607_RhodesAstroVixen.thumb.jpg.af4936397042a3466524006f62614f01.jpg

583564610_Astrofallsailing1.thumb.jpg.41fb5bf430040ca50a3d9014151697c5.jpg

For CA currency, it sails miles and miles in season,...by kids,...with no engine,....on and off the mooring...

163160048_Astrolanding.thumb.jpg.c0b67333b887f85132f526332078befc.jpg

1580792908_Astroroundingup_.thumb.jpg.9a0fc2b5bc86c774619a5beaa35f5c77.jpg

Too soon?

Nah, dead on. Fekkin millennials....

778298113_Astrotouchdown.thumb.jpg.3f0dfe808bcf25e01a336eef5763b1ad.jpg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

A good friend of mine that has owned several K Aage Neilsen boats, says boats like SOLUTION were the greyhounds of the sea in their day (50,60's). SOLUTION has no access from the cockpit. With dorade boxes and big high cowls to keep fresh air flowing, the boat looks designed to close up like a submarine at sea. 

The bulwarks or raised toerails (your choice) are no doubt appreciated as you move from the cockpit to mid-ship hatchway. 

 

Solution_.thumb.jpg.1a8073c2b01d7d33657c600271cb71f1.jpg

Further, the case of bulwarks vs toe rails, a friend (and yacht designer) did some research (unbeknownst to me), and posted on the Wooden Boat FB group. 

 

Tom Young, if im not mistaken that photo is of an Aage Nielsen design? In their book about Mr Nielsen and his designs called Worthy of the Sea, Maynard Bray and Tom Jackson included a final chapter called An Eye for Detail that contains a handful of Mr Nielsen's meticulous detail drawings. On p 279 there is a detail drawing of a bronze stanchion base. That drawing includes a note about the bolting arrangement of the stanchion base through the bulwark. Mr Nielsen called it a bulwark. For my part I doubt we will find a better authority in this forum than the vessel's designer.

 

That's it for me. The Bulwarks case, is closed. 

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen many good looking motorsailers but almost all of them were best described by words like stout, purposeful, handsome etc.

Beautiful is not a word that springs to mind with most but is does with the big Rhodes like Sea Diamond and the 77's.

Some people regard the Nicholson 48 as a M/S and it certainly qualifies.

image.png.371883b7da5b0a4828bbb0af2e6cdcf9.png

Have friends who circumnavigated in one of these. Only took 23 years - they took their time. Finished at a collective age of 160. Serious sailors, went around Cape Agulhas with spinnaker up, wanted to get to next harbour, Simonstown, before the weather went south. It was a cozy boat and seemed smaller than our Bristol 45.5.

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On 1/24/2021 at 12:46 PM, kinardly said:

Perhaps the Navy term is gunwales? USN ship design seemed to prefer them and some of the navies that operate in the N. Atlantic and Pacific favor rounding off the meeting of hull and deck, probably to better shed heavy seas.

Some of that was to cut down on ice build up, another major reason was to pressurized the inside of the cabin in a NBC environment and engage a washdown system...

On 1/24/2021 at 4:43 PM, Bull City said:

Some of that roundness was done so as to improve the thoroughness and efficiency of the water wash down system - it's important to get all those radioactive particles off the ship post nuclear attack - or so a USNA engineering officer told me about 50 years ago.:ph34r:

...damn, beat me to it.

As warships go though, did create some pretty boats.

1024px-HMCS_Fraser_(DDH_233)_underway_in

1280px-thumbnail.jpg

 

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Interesting choice of destroyer pictures. HMCS Margaree (1957) and HMCS Algonquin (1971). Two of our best, homegrown designs - the St. Laurent class (230 class) and the 'new tribal' or Iroquois class (280 class). The RCN is currently looking at buying its next warship design from BAE. I guess we allowed our skills to lapse...

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I remember one of those showing up across from our DE on H Pier in Pearl Harbor during my senior mid cruise. It wasn't as battered as the ones in those pics but that was quite a while ago and it was what I had in mind when I made my earlier post. Very striking and good looking.

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6 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Interesting choice of destroyer pictures. HMCS Margaree (1957) and HMCS Algonquin (1971). Two of our best, homegrown designs - the St. Laurent class (230 class) and the 'new tribal' or Iroquois class (280 class). The RCN is currently looking at buying its next warship design from BAE. I guess we allowed our skills to lapse...

It's not a skills question.  It's a question of being able to leverage work already done so you don't have to pay for all of it.  Its the ability to work with an existing platform, on which all of the basic hull systems, and much of the weapons and other systems development and integration is already done.  Designed and built solely on your own, Canada could hardly afford to buy one new warship...as the development and integration costs would overwhelm the project.  Same reason the USN used the 737 as the basis for its new Patrol Aircraft (the P-8).  We'd already tried (and failed) at two separate P-3 replacement programs that where "create new from whole cloth designs." Both sunk due to costs becoming unaffordable.  

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6 minutes ago, Crash said:

Same reason the USN used the 737 as the basis for its new Patrol Aircraft (the P-8).  We'd already tried (and failed) at two separate P-3 replacement programs that where "create new from whole cloth designs." Both sunk due to costs becoming unaffordable.  

The Brits went through that cycle twice, with the Nimrod AEW3 and then the MRA4.  Both were ultimately canned after a sackload of money had been poured into failed development projects, and the bought off-the-shelf kit from Murica.

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11 minutes ago, kinardly said:

Always wondered what happened to the Nimrod. Was it the Lockheed S3 that did it in?

AIUI, the problem was that Nimrod was seven thousand years old and they couldn't get the homebrewed replacements to work.

So they smashed up the Nimrods with diggers in 2011, exactly ten years ago today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12292390

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

AIUI, the problem was that Nimrod was seven thousand years old and they couldn't get the homebrewed replacements to work.

So they smashed up the Nimrods with diggers in 2011, exactly ten years ago today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12292390

Nimrod was indeed an old system.  It was based on an extensive modification to the old Hawker Sidley Comet (the worlds first Jet Airliner).  So as Nimrod got older and older, it got harder and harder to maintain, as there was no production line, no spares being manufactured, etc, etc for the basic airframe.  MRA4 and Nimrod AEW3 didn't really solve that problem, as they too, were still based on the original Comet to Nimrod Airframe (which they were admittedly upgrading and modernizing where possible, but still a 1950's aircraft).  USAF faces many of the same issues in trying to keep its B-52's flying, but at least has the advantage of it having been in production longer, with lots more airframes built.  Also we have lots of retired aircraft out in the desert to get parts from if needed.  Plus Boeing is at least still in business...

RAF is flying E-3 Sentrys and P-8 Poseidons as they fulfill most of (but not all) of the requirements, at a cost that is much lower, and gain airframes that can be much more cheaply maintained.

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On 1/24/2021 at 4:28 PM, SloopJonB said:

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

 


John Alden:490749E1-95F7-4689-8979-A50B3215A789.thumb.jpeg.6cc985350b162b09bd449e97d6704115.jpeg

Trade Wind.  Won awards for best restoration for a reason.   Detail work cannot be appreciated in full by photos alone.  Gorgeous, stunning piece of floating furniture.

But also, my favorite, William Hand:E330BA61-4AC9-4E8F-94AB-3128F58B89E5.thumb.jpeg.c96e2be5e5c96e98abe946676ae2a0b0.jpeg

When I last saw Burma, probably six or seven years ago now, she was by a good jump the most impeccably, tastefully kept wooden boat of any kind I have ever seen.  And living in mid coast Maine, we see a lot of those around here.  Every detail, every finish, every piece of hardware was perfect.  Truly amazing.  Again, photos do no justice (these are just shamelessly stolen from the web).

Honorable mention, also a William Hand:

B23567F6-D1AE-4C22-8D0F-8706C3DABFAE.thumb.jpeg.b4d00142f078a5c67f05c9eb64c206ce.jpeg

Bowdoin.  Really only technically a motor sailor, and not exactly a cruising yacht, but looks good doing it.

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45 minutes ago, Crash said:

Nimrod was indeed an old system.  It was based on an extensive modification to the old Hawker Sidley Comet (the worlds first Jet Airliner).

De Havilland built the Comet, not Hawkers

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I often come back to Loon when I try to imagine a beautiful motorsailer. To me, that looks like what I want to live on when I retire.

custom2x3perry3.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

De Havilland built the Comet, not Hawkers

Dooh!  I knew that.  You're right, of course.  De Havilland build the Comet.  Hawker Siddeley was the successor company to De Havilland, and they built the Nimrod based on the Comet.  British Aerospace and BAE Systems were the successor companies to Hawker Siddelely and did the development work on MRA4 and Nimrod AEW3.  Thanks for catching that!

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I wouldn't classify Loon as a motorsailer.  To my eye she's a proper sailing yacht which happens to include an elegant pilothouse in a size where that feature is very rare.

She's a real Perry masterpiece, and I see a strong family resemblance to her skinny cousin Frankie.

1 hour ago, Matagi said:

I often come back to Loon when I try to imagine a beautiful motorsailer. To me, that looks like what I want to live on when I retire.

custom2x3perry3.jpg

 

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On 1/24/2021 at 1:59 PM, Kris Cringle said:

A good friend of mine that has owned several K Aage Neilsen boats, says boats like SOLUTION were the greyhounds of the sea in their day (50,60's). SOLUTION has no access from the cockpit. With dorade boxes and big high cowls to keep fresh air flowing, the boat looks designed to close up like a submarine at sea. 

The bulwarks or raised toerails (your choice) are no doubt appreciated as you move from the cockpit to mid-ship hatchway. 

 

Solution_.thumb.jpg.1a8073c2b01d7d33657c600271cb71f1.jpg

The gentleman who built my boat had 4 custom sailboats in his cruising/racing career. The first two were Aage Neilsen's built by Paul Luke. When he wanted a new boat Aage had crossed the bar, so he had Niels Helleberg at Alden design it, built in alloy by Luke.

For his last Restive, Luke had passed, so he had Brooklin build him a Center Harbor 31, to be sure he was happy with the quality and the experience, while having Niels design the boat. I think he enjoyed the design and build process almost as much as he enjoys sailing. 

One of my favorite KAN designs is Hound. The author of this photo essay is a great young man, his older sister did a Bermuda-Newport return with me on my previous boat. Marvelous sailors, both of them. 

https://issuu.com/briansagerphotography/docs/syhound-22-qual90

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22 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

The gentleman who built my boat had 4 custom sailboats in his cruising/racing career. The first two were Aage Neilsen's built by Paul Luke. When he wanted a new boat Aage had crossed the bar, so he had Niels Helleberg at Alden design it, built in alloy by Luke.

For his last Restive, Luke had passed, so he had Brooklin build him a Center Harbor 31, to be sure he was happy with the quality and the experience, while having Niels design the boat. I think he enjoyed the design and build process almost as much as he enjoys sailing. 

One of my favorite KAN designs is Hound. The author of this photo essay is a great young man, his older sister did a Bermuda-Newport return with me on my previous boat. Marvelous sailors, both of them. 

https://issuu.com/briansagerphotography/docs/syhound-22-qual90

Hound is a great looking yacht. One Winter I watched her get some of her plating patched. 

On day my son and I were sailing our boat into the western end of the Fox Island Thoroughfare and it was one of those days where the am NE and Afternoon SW'er were having a tug of war. Hound was sailing DDW towards us out of the Thoroughfare and we were sailing DDW towards her into the Thoroughfare. There was a 50 yard dead-spot where both boats ghosted past each other with a wave and then we both sheeted in the new breeze and continued on our respective ways. 

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On 1/24/2021 at 4:28 PM, SloopJonB said:

IMO Rhodes boats were right up at or near the top for beauty.

No-one and I mean no-one ever drew a better sheer line.

Can you name another designer who could make a motor-sailor truly beautiful?

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Sea diamond.  Took my breath away seeing her in Castine maybe 15 years ago... what a yacht!!!   As far as others making motorsailors sexy... AO Wilson, William Hand, John Alden, Knud Riemers (yes that knud Riemers) all designed sexy motorsailors.  S&S did too,  but they really ripped off Rhodes, who was clearly influenced by Hand and Wilson.  

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Hand designed a number of beautiful transoms 

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In case the offset companionway is about to kill you as they always do, you can quickly break it so your boat floods evenly.

Kidding, obviously.

I like it, some nonverbal communication and more light?

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19 minutes ago, Matagi said:

In case the offset companionway is about to kill you as they always do, you can quickly break it so your boat floods evenly.

Kidding, obviously.

I like it, some nonverbal communication and more light?

You can watch French Toast Girl from the cockpit.

FB- Doug

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59 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

A serious question: Explain why you would put a fixed port here? 

As opposed to an opening port? Or as opposed to having a port at all?  Generally it's comforting to see the bad weather outside while you are inside. 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

A serious question: Explain why you would put a fixed port here? 

477968522_Nevins40port_.thumb.jpg.924a5ff76ff4832b1cbde118705814a3.jpg

 

 

Why wouldn't you? It lets lots of light in, balances the companionway, and opens the view. 

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Why wouldn't you? It lets lots of light in, balances the companionway, and opens the view. 

I guess, at least for me, a coastal cruiser in New England, I've almost never had those hatchway boards in place while I was on the boat. They're always open, perhaps with screens in place during the evening. Even with the wood fireplace running, they're open because air flows in through the companionway, or not much at all. 

 

So the window is redundant for me. If it opened, I could see it because it could be a shorter reach for a glass of wine. 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

...

So the window is redundant for me. If it opened, I could see it because it could be a shorter reach for a glass of wine. 

Do you know sign language for "Hey, while you're down there...."

FB- Doug

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On January 26, 2021 at 2:46 PM, NaClH20 said:


 

But also, my favorite, William Hand:E330BA61-4AC9-4E8F-94AB-3128F58B89E5.thumb.jpeg.c96e2be5e5c96e98abe946676ae2a0b0.jpeg

When I last saw Burma, probably six or seven years ago now, she was by a good jump the most impeccably, tastefully kept wooden boat of any kind I have ever seen.  And living in mid coast Maine, we see a lot of those around here.  Every detail, every finish, every piece of hardware was perfect.  Truly amazing.  Again, photos do no justice (these are just shamelessly stolen from the web)

Burma now has a black hull, is still perfect. She is usually the RC boat for the Castine Camden Woodenboat Race, so is hardly the only lovely boat milling about outside the mouth of the Bagaduce that Thursday each summer. Solution was in the fleet this past summer. 

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3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

I guess, at least for me, a coastal cruiser in New England, I've almost never had those hatchway boards in place while I was on the boat. They're always open, perhaps with screens in place during the evening. Even with the wood fireplace running, they're open because air flows in through the companionway, or not much at all. 

 

So the window is redundant for me. If it opened, I could see it because it could be a shorter reach for a glass of wine. 

That's how we use the one I installed. 

PK_0451.thumb.jpg.89b821ebd07b9362c1df39110cb21a29.jpg

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So it’s not a window or a fixed port or a skylight.

It’s a serving hatch for when thirst is life-threatening. “Break glass in case of emergency”

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6 hours ago, Ishmael said:

That's how we use the one I installed. 

PK_0451.thumb.jpg.89b821ebd07b9362c1df39110cb21a29.jpg

So it's a specialised serving hatch which allow the drink passing to be achieved six inches to port of the main hatch?

Seems a bit redundant.

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That's nothin'.  The Catalina 545 has an actual dumb waiter!

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8 minutes ago, Hukilau said:

That's nothin'.  The Catalina 545 has an actual dumb waiter!

Call her that to her face and it will probably be the last time she hands you a beer.

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17 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Why wouldn't you? It lets lots of light in, balances the companionway, and opens the view. 

I'm with Ish on this one.  Our old C&C 27 had skimpy ventilation (whadaya expect from an early 70s racer/cruiser design?) and we found opening ports into the cockpit increased air flow, light, view, and communication.  Also, when racing (in fair weather!), we ran the halyard and control line tails through the open ports which reduced the rats nest at the foot of the companionway.

942308508_20150920CP_15.thumb.JPG.029329c5d34dee951173f8e083e5820d.JPG

Our (current) Aloha 30 also has opening ports into the cockpit.  They provide valuable ventilation for the claustrophobic aft head and aft cabins (or garage in our case!).  There's a better pit position in this boat so halyard and line tails don't tend to create quite as bad a rats nest!

IMG_0723.thumb.jpg.55b09c3d26b523f50dc81d170e867ea8.jpg

 

Cheers!

 

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

So it's a specialised serving hatch which allow the drink passing to be achieved six inches to port of the main hatch?

Seems a bit redundant.

No, it's mainly there for ventilation in the galley, and a view for the cook/dishwasher. It's also a more controllable ventilation than taking out a hatchboard.

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:11 AM, Kris Cringle said:

2020805581_Rhodesdecks(1of1).thumb.jpg.5888f2074f6748f09823300f63322486.jpg

This 1938 Rhodes Astro is owned by some kids.

53083919_RhodesAstroVixenConcordia2.thumb.jpg.c05562807d654937a60ff8542f0f1911.jpg

I'd say it's a progressive 1938 design. 

707041607_RhodesAstroVixen.thumb.jpg.af4936397042a3466524006f62614f01.jpg

583564610_Astrofallsailing1.thumb.jpg.41fb5bf430040ca50a3d9014151697c5.jpg

 

163160048_Astrolanding.thumb.jpg.c0b67333b887f85132f526332078befc.jpg

1580792908_Astroroundingup_.thumb.jpg.9a0fc2b5bc86c774619a5beaa35f5c77.jpg

Too soon?

Nah, dead on. Fekkin millennials....

778298113_Astrotouchdown.thumb.jpg.3f0dfe808bcf25e01a336eef5763b1ad.jpg

Too bad they have an aluminum mast on that yacht and I'm glad they have no auxiliary motor. That’s how I sail mine

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10 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

 

Our (current) Aloha 30 also has opening ports into the cockpit.  They provide valuable ventilation for the claustrophobic aft head and aft cabins (or garage in our case!).  There's a better pit position in this boat so halyard and line tails don't tend to create quite as bad a rats nest!

 

 

Cheers!

 

"Garage" is exactly what I dubbed the "aft cabin" on the boat I bought first time I saw it.  I can fit an almost 9' surfboard and a full sized bike with the wheels off back there!  

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On 1/27/2021 at 10:49 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

Burma now has a black hull, is still perfect. She is usually the RC boat for the Castine Camden Woodenboat Race, so is hardly the only lovely boat milling about outside the mouth of the Bagaduce that Thursday each summer. Solution was in the fleet this past summer. 

Trying again here, the photo posted momentarily last time then disappeared. Hopefully, it will stay put this time...

 

BurmaInBlack.jpg

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Ijssellake Holland

E7285B78-E37F-455B-9B1C-B549C97AAC3D.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Anomaly2 said:

Trying again here, the photo posted momentarily last time then disappeared. Hopefully, it will stay put this time...

 

BurmaInBlack.jpg

To my eye the black hull is not an improvement.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

To my eye the black hull is not an improvement.

In person it is stunning. I like it. 

That's great thing about opinions on boats. We can disagree, and we're both right. :rolleyes:

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On 1/14/2021 at 5:28 PM, Steam Flyer said:

The boat Javelin or the car Javelin?

FB- Doug

car...

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

In person it is stunning. I like it. 

That's great thing about opinions on boats. We can disagree, and we're both right. :rolleyes:

It's kind of like asking Selma Hayek (pick the good looking person of choice) not to wear a black dress. Other colors may be preferable, but it doesn't take too much away from what she is. 

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59 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

car...

390?

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

It's kind of like asking Selma Hayek (pick the good looking person of choice) not to wear a black dress. Other colors may be preferable, but it doesn't take too much away from what she is. 

Huh?

image.png.7da43248176770bab6e516cbf9735cf8.pngimage.thumb.png.883a1c44dadc8c9d04790a2e9a95267a.png

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13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Huh?

image.png.7da43248176770bab6e516cbf9735cf8.pngimage.thumb.png.883a1c44dadc8c9d04790a2e9a95267a.png

That's the point. Any dress looks good. I hate green and pink dresses....but tell me that looks bad? 

 

gettyimages-81139986_master.jpg?quality=

gettyimages-491749679_master.jpg?quality

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Dark colors reveal any unfairness in a hull, in the case of Ms. Hayek, it's the unfairnesses that make her so very fair to the eye.

In person and up close, Burma's dark hull is perfectly fair. I think the dark hull accentuates the curves in a seductive way. Like Salma.:rolleyes:

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21 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Dark colors reveal any unfairness in a hull, in the case of Ms. Hayek, it's the unfairnesses that make her so very fair to the eye.

In the case of Ms. Hayek, I thought it was something else. Thanks for straightening me out. :)

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Dark colors reveal any unfairness in a hull, in the case of Ms. Hayek, it's the unfairnesses that make her so very fair to the eye.

In person and up close, Burma's dark hull is perfectly fair. I think the dark hull accentuates the curves in a seductive way. Like Salma.:rolleyes:

Up close, I bet Ms. Hayek is very fair. 

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16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Up close, I bet Ms. Hayek is very fair. 

And I suspect you volunteer to check for fairness?

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17 minutes ago, Bull City said:

And I suspect you volunteer to check for fairness?

My wife would disapprove. 

Single? I'd be all over it. 

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