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12 hours ago, Kolibri said:

Bull...you need to look at this one... The owner was planning to finish the boat, ran into "life", had it in his garage for years, then had Morris finish it. A nearly brand new Frances. Only down side are the teak decks, unless they are bonded on rather than screwed on.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2013/morris-frances-26-3820840/

She is a beauty, and probably a steal at that price. Alas, she is probably not a good choice for my sailing venue.

There is also the fact that I am in the process of dumping several boat coins into TONIC. :wacko:

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I've been working on the S Boat painting from the photo I posted a few days ago, and I thought y'all might like to see how it's coming along. It's 12" X 24". I liked the composition of the photo,

Available as a sloop or yawl.

My old Schooner "Europe". The first yacht registered under the brand new European Union flag. Baptised  by Princess Grace Kelly of Monaco. We acquired the boat after she went around the world. Thank y

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4 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

A relative of mine got a CX when they first reached Ireland in 1974.  As a kid, I thought it was a space-age machine: both inside and out, it looked like nothing else on the road, and it glided like a magic carpet.

Nearly half a century later, I still think the CX looks like a visitor from the future. 

I struggle to think of any 1970s boat designs that still look like the future 

Citroens have been like that for a very long time.

The DS 19 first appeared in 1955. It still doesn't look old.

It just looks like a Citroen.

image.jpeg.cbce15292daf97aaf58cc9b4e026a658.jpeg

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My first time in France a few years ago, we needed to rent a car.  I was given several choices, and purposefully chose the Citroen.  I hadn't seen one in the US since the '70's, and had always admired the in your face designs.  But to my disappointment, French car rental companies proved to be just like their American counterparts:  the car you actually get is rarely the car you selected.   

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On 4/16/2021 at 7:00 AM, Kris Cringle said:

Red boat, spoon bow (2018). 

1505676773_Elizaspoonbow.thumb.jpg.7f625e9bbea15573096bf4dcdb112d62.jpg

I'm usually not a fan of red boats, but I like that red!

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17 hours ago, Panoramix said:

During the 70s Citroen did some research to reach the most efficient shape for a saloon car. Back then everybody laughed but 30 years later, most saloon cars have eventually reached the tear drop end of the design spectrum and people are moaning that they all look the same!

1920px-Citro%C3%ABn_CX.jpg

Not nearly as radical as the DS, introduced a good decade earlier:

image.jpeg.7581ee9bdad2ad01dcd4015aeed6e416.jpeg

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
15 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Nearly half a century later, I still think the CX looks like a visitor from the future. 

I struggle to think of any 1970s boat designs that still look like the future 

Citroens have been like that for a very long time.

The DS 19 first appeared in 1955. It still doesn't look old.

The DS is a magnificent machine.  But it doesn't look as futuristic as the CX 

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4 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

The DS is a magnificent machine.  But it doesn't look as futuristic as the CX 

 

1971 Citroen SM seriously cool and seriously expensive.

01FFD204-A213-40E6-8272-DDC115714BCA.thumb.jpeg.b1571462f248641b0a78f7e81ced0236.jpeg
 

6B4AD85F-1473-4530-A269-A366D52D5043.thumb.jpeg.d7c13195f82906727dbc953ef7d711de.jpeg

DS coupe not too shabby either.

13EFB616-CF48-4C97-B078-CA7CB17F39BC.thumb.jpeg.508c500e489730d6cff46fef179ae6de.jpeg

 

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5 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Not nearly as radical as the DS, introduced a good decade earlier:

image.jpeg.7581ee9bdad2ad01dcd4015aeed6e416.jpeg

DS are beautiful (and worth some money nowadays!)  but they weren't copied like the CX. For the CX it is even worse, people laughed then came to the same design conclusion 20 years later!

56 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

 

1971 Citroen SM seriously cool and seriously expensive.

01FFD204-A213-40E6-8272-DDC115714BCA.thumb.jpeg.b1571462f248641b0a78f7e81ced0236.jpeg
 

6B4AD85F-1473-4530-A269-A366D52D5043.thumb.jpeg.d7c13195f82906727dbc953ef7d711de.jpeg

DS coupe not too shabby either.

13EFB616-CF48-4C97-B078-CA7CB17F39BC.thumb.jpeg.508c500e489730d6cff46fef179ae6de.jpeg

 

The SM was designed byt the guy who designed the CX, it was the foundation but very few were sold.

I don't think that I've ever crossed a DS coupé.

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The SM had the misfortune to be released just as the 1970 oil crisis hit, no-one was buying luxury cars with big (for the French) engines for years to come.

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8 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

The DS coupe is stunning, only ever seen a couple of them, in France, and one in LA !

Yeah, because the reality of trying to keep one running, even when they were new, was pretty f'n grim.

My high school GF's dad, a well to do neurosurgeon, had one. Nice interior. It had some advanced mechanical systems, which rarely worked. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. 

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29 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Yeah, because the reality of trying to keep one running, even when they were new, was pretty f'n grim.

My high school GF's dad, a well to do neurosurgeon, had one. Nice interior. It had some advanced mechanical systems, which rarely worked. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. 

how was the back seat?

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Just now, chester said:

how was the back seat?

I had a station wagon. 

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7 minutes ago, chester said:

how was the back seat?

My dad had 3 DSs (not the coupe) and I can report that the ride is sooooo smooooth.

But they're a cast-iron bitch to work on.

Changing a wheel is amusing.

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To get things back to sailing (and I am guilty here), I'd like to throw in Pelle Petterson's cars and boats:

profile:mag-maxwidth-1280

Gebrauchtboot%20Maxi%201300%20(5).jpg

What a versatile designer, what a great eye.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Black Sox said:

 

My dad had 3 DSs (not the coupe) and I can report that the ride is sooooo smooooth.

But they're a cast-iron bitch to work on.

Changing a wheel is amusing.

My dad had one or two 2CV, a GS, two BX (the “Sport“ version designed by Bertone), a CX, an XM, some more french letter soup that I don’t recall, and is now driving a „Picasso“ at the age of 80. The fact that I actually bought him the Picasso can only be some strange variant of Stockholm Syndrome. 

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

To get things back to sailing (and I am guilty here), I'd like to throw in Pelle Petterson's cars and boats:

profile:mag-maxwidth-1280

What a versatile designer, what a great eye.

That P1800 ES was a real design rarity - an attempt to get a few more years out of an old design that ended up better and better looking than the original version. Quite collectible now - over $30K for a good one.

Can anybody name a couple of others like that?

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11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

 

1971 Citroen SM seriously cool and seriously expensive.

01FFD204-A213-40E6-8272-DDC115714BCA.thumb.jpeg.b1571462f248641b0a78f7e81ced0236.jpeg
 

6B4AD85F-1473-4530-A269-A366D52D5043.thumb.jpeg.d7c13195f82906727dbc953ef7d711de.jpeg

DS coupe not too shabby either.

13EFB616-CF48-4C97-B078-CA7CB17F39BC.thumb.jpeg.508c500e489730d6cff46fef179ae6de.jpeg

 

In the early 70's the two coolest cars in Vancouver were the SM and the Jensen Interceptor. Quite a few of each were sold here.

Apparently the SM was seriously expensive to maintain - a Maserati engine and Citroen hydraulic everything else. :blink:

That's the first I've ever heard of the DS coupe - never even seen a pic before.

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I used to watch the trader mags for a p1800! My old man had a Mercedes fixation, and as a teenager I was tasked with detailing and selling two of them. Payoff was two summers of having a 220S surfwagon. Column shift, crap AC, but fun.

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I'm not sure if it's self-loathing or masochism that drives people to own French cars. I've never hated myself enough to do so. I would like a nice Delage or Delahaye, but not as a daily driver. 

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I'm not sure if it's self-loathing or masochism that drives people to own French cars.

Had a couple of Light 15’s as a young fella which proved to both quite reliable and a chick magnet happy days.

Used to tow my Flying 15 to the launching ramp which was not far though.

Knew a guy who put a V8 in his but he never had the same success wth both reliability and girls.

70836D8E-B49E-41E1-9F81-58F9224F98E9.thumb.jpeg.e39510b6e9365b5d837166e566a3818e.jpeg7943939D-EE24-4155-BB78-70B4127DE370.thumb.jpeg.3ee5e8c0f4d16aeb1909d504330bff72.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I'm not sure if it's self-loathing or masochism that drives people to own French cars. I've never hated myself enough to do so. I would like a nice Delage or Delahaye, but not as a daily driver. 

Why not?

Seems eminently practical to me.

1937 Delahaye Type 135 Competition Court Roadster - “A Paris Gown on Wheels”

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I've never had issue with French cars. We had a Peugeot diesel wagon that lasted 3-400k km. It died only because my father got is a dispute with the local repair shop and they didn't move it when the Ardour flooded.  We also had a 2CV as a farm vehicles. The 2CV was fun - one bail of hay fit in the back. Went off-road just fine. The Gendarmes made us give it up after one of the farms hands lost his kid out the back on a D route.  

The English cars on the other hand...The XJ, despite it being the first year with the Bosch electrics, still was less than reliable. The MKII looked wonderfully louche and drive nicely when it would start.  The Landrovers were good in that they push started easily.  

Only the Peugeot wagon, MB SL190 and the John Deer tractors were reliable. 

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On 4/21/2021 at 11:05 AM, SloopJonB said:

Citroens have been like that for a very long time.

The DS 19 first appeared in 1955. It still doesn't look old.

It just looks like a Citroen.

image.jpeg.cbce15292daf97aaf58cc9b4e026a658.jpeg

A neighbor of ours back in the early '70s had one of those. He was quite proud to inform us that the ride was so smooth, that one had been used as the official camera-car of the UK Grand National Steeplechase since the first model had come out.

I have no proof to the veracity of his claim, yay or nay. (neigh?) 

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5 hours ago, Black Sox said:

 

My dad had 3 DSs (not the coupe) and I can report that the ride is sooooo smooooth.

But they're a cast-iron bitch to work on.

Changing a wheel is amusing.

One to drive and two for parts seems the right ratio.

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8 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

My dad had one or two 2CV, a GS, two BX (the “Sport“ version designed by Bertone), a CX, an XM, some more french letter soup that I don’t recall, and is now driving a „Picasso“ at the age of 80. The fact that I actually bought him the Picasso can only be some strange variant of Stockholm Syndrome. 

I could dispute the basic premise of this post and the other comments like it (shall we talk about, say, Chrysler products...), BUT, this is seriously funny. Well done. 

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7 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

I used to watch the trader mags for a p1800! My old man had a Mercedes fixation, and as a teenager I was tasked with detailing and selling two of them. Payoff was two summers of having a 220S surfwagon. Column shift, crap AC, but fun.

My dad had a white 1964 (I think) P1800 bought used before I was born.  He had to sell it when I was about four because I no longer fit in what passed for the back seat.  That, and the floor was rusting out. We replaced it with a 1979 Chevy Malibu station wagon.  Only time I've seen him cry. 

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10 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

I used to watch the trader mags for a p1800! My old man had a Mercedes fixation, and as a teenager I was tasked with detailing and selling two of them. Payoff was two summers of having a 220S surfwagon. Column shift, crap AC, but fun.

Resto Mod anyone?  I'm not usually a fan, but this one is done really well...

Volvo-P1800-Cyan-Racing-review-_-Amazing-restomod-tested-_-Autocar-1-14-screenshot.jpg?quality=85&width=1440&quality=70

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9 hours ago, 4EYES said:

A neighbor of ours back in the early '70s had one of those. He was quite proud to inform us that the ride was so smooth, that one had been used as the official camera-car of the UK Grand National Steeplechase since the first model had come out.

I have no proof to the veracity of his claim, yay or nay. (neigh?) 

There was an Irish film called “Eat The Peach”, the basic premise of which was that two guys who worked on the bogs in the Irish midlands built a wall of death. A light-hearted comedy. My point is that I know they used a DS as the camera car in many of the scenes on the bogs.

Just discovered - “based on the true story of two motor cycle enthusiasts from Granard, Co. Longford, who were inspired by Elvis Presley film ‘Roustabout’ to build their own wall of death.“

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5 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Not seeing any cool boats here. Let's see if I can find one...Found 3. 

DSC_7465.jpeg

 

Glad to see that the Shilshole 27 finally got launched.  I was following the build blog for a while, but it tapered off.  Was a little worried that it was going to end up another unfinished project in someone's backyard/garage.  Neat boat!  Kind of reminds me of the Ben Seaborn thunderbirds: small, easy to build, and good for both family cruising and racing.

Hope everyone's pleased with the boat and that the shakedown is going well!

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6 hours ago, Crash said:

Resto Mod anyone?  I'm not usually a fan, but this one is done really well...

Volvo-P1800-Cyan-Racing-review-_-Amazing-restomod-tested-_-Autocar-1-14-screenshot.jpg?quality=85&width=1440&quality=70

beautiful and YIkes https://www.thedrive.com/news/37960/cyan-racing-can-build-up-to-10-gorgeous-volvo-p1800-restomods-per-year

 its engineers found enough spare capacity to inject the classic P1800's shape designed by Pelle Petterson with the technology of their championship-winning Volvo S60 Polestar TC1. This led to a restomod that's officially still titled as a Volvo P1800, yet only retains the original car's pillars, handbrake lever, hood release mechanism and windshield wipers.

And

Priced just under £400,000

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9 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Not seeing any cool boats here. Let's see if I can find one...Found 3. 

DSC_7465.jpeg

24 ft carbon RTA cat 12 Brown tornado hull power cat.jpg

I think this Turn Point 24 (?) is/was a very cool boat.  So disappointed they didn’t get to finish the R2K.  Is it getting used much at this point?

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It's being re-rigged right now for the Washington 360. They did finish the R2AK, I think in 2016. The new rig is a carbon wing mast made in-house.

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On 4/19/2021 at 5:05 PM, accnick said:

And many of the best designers of that generation worked at S&S under Olin and Rod (who did deck layouts) early in their careers, including Aage Nielsen. It is no wonder there is such a strong family resemblance between designs from S&S alumni from that golden age.

One of my favorite Nielsen designs is Hound, which we see in Maine every summer. Long, narrow, deep, flush-decked aluminum sloop of stunning grace.

I couldn't begin to name my favorite S&S design. Just too many to choose from.

Has anyone ever seen a 'heredity' chart showing who designers who became famous worked for when they were young? Would be interesting. Could be like the Bible, X begat Y who begat Z.

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On 4/22/2021 at 3:13 AM, Priscilla said:

 

1971 Citroen SM seriously cool and seriously expensive.

01FFD204-A213-40E6-8272-DDC115714BCA.thumb.jpeg.b1571462f248641b0a78f7e81ced0236.jpeg

 

I had one of those in the late seventies – black on black, beautiful, had spaceship like reclined curved seating...very cool.

Yup, seriously expensive, in the way classic wooden yachts often are. It was dirt chip to buy second hand and insanely expensive to restore and keep ship shape. The Maserati engine was more a work of visual and auditory art than a useful contribution to mobility.  

I inherited my weakness for Citroen, it being a family affliction (a few 2CVs, DS 20 Break and DS 21 Pallas).

The land version of classic yachts – sensuously curvaceous art surrounded ugly utilitarian transport.

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Slightly off topic, but having never been to that part of the world, what is the correct pronunciation of 'Shilshole'?

Shill - shoal?

Shills - hole?

Shil- show - lay?  

Something else?  

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20 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I'm not sure if it's self-loathing or masochism that drives people to own French cars. I've never hated myself enough to do so. I would like a nice Delage or Delahaye, but not as a daily driver. 

German manufacturers are very good at marketing but if you actually want a reliable car, buy a Japanese one and if you don't like Japanese cars, French, US and Italians ones aren't bad compared to the rest (index below 100) :

Actual statistics : https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

If you want to feed the car repair industry, buy German, English or a Maserati!

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39 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Slightly off topic, but having never been to that part of the world, what is the correct pronunciation of 'Shilshole'?

Shill - shoal?

Shills - hole?

Shil- show - lay?  

Something else?  

Shill - shoal.

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Topsides paint is in poor shape.  Over 18 years of owning boats with flag blue hulls (and I'm surrounded by dark blue 28's).  Ready to move on.  It will be Awlgrip's Oyster (creamy white).  Same bottom color (Micron 66 green).  Question is what to do with the boot stripe.

(Posted here because it's a cool boat, not an old European car.)

No Skipper NYD.jpg

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23 hours ago, Matagi said:

To get things back to sailing (and I am guilty here), I'd like to throw in Pelle Petterson's cars and boats:

profile:mag-maxwidth-1280

 

What a versatile designer, what a great eye.

 

 

I once worked with Michael Peters the renowned power boat designer at Cigarette/Halter in New Orleans. Mike had a P1800 hatchback (or whatever it was called) in that exact same color. It was the coolest car ever and I still lust after one. Mike had a pretty good eye for style himself and I bet he owns that car to this day.

Ferrari 46' Sportboat Proposal

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

German manufacturers are very good at marketing but if you actually want a reliable car, buy a Japanese one and if you don't like Japanese cars, French, US and Italians ones aren't bad compared to the rest (index below 100) :

Actual statistics : https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

If you want to feed the car repair industry, buy German, English or a Maserati!

Daihatsu...I would not have guessed

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2 hours ago, BobJ said:

Question is what to do with the boot stripe.

You could go sans boot stripe or black.

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I was thinking a dark blue boot stripe with a narrow band of the cream topsides color where it meets the green bottom paint.  No stripe with those colors looks right on small boats, not sure it would work here.

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1 hour ago, KC375 said:

Daihatsu...I would not have guessed

Me neither.

I am German, never have been more hateful against my car than my ex-BMW.

Now I cannot speak highly enough of my Toyota SW hybrid. A magnificent car. 

The German car industry is toast.

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Hmm, that's two votes for black.  I was thinking a flag blue stripe would look almost black and would, at least in my mind, go with the dark blue logo and trim on the sails.

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8 hours ago, KC375 said:

I had one of those in the late seventies – black on black, beautiful, had spaceship like reclined curved seating...very cool.

Yup, seriously expensive, in the way classic wooden yachts often are. It was dirt chip to buy second hand and insanely expensive to restore and keep ship shape. The Maserati engine was more a work of visual and auditory art than a useful contribution to mobility.  

I inherited my weakness for Citroen, it being a family affliction (a few 2CVs, DS 20 Break and DS 21 Pallas).

The land version of classic yachts – sensuously curvaceous art surrounded ugly utilitarian transport.

So now you sail an Amel?

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5 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Mike had a P1800 hatchback (or whatever it was called) in that exact same color.

P1800 ES

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6 hours ago, Matagi said:

Me neither.

I am German, never have been more hateful against my car than my ex-BMW.

Now I cannot speak highly enough of my Toyota SW hybrid. A magnificent car. 

The German car industry is toast.

Mid 90s we had an MB 300TE wagon, luxury by restraint no unneeded doodads – loved it. Only got rid of it as a third child triggered moving to the dreaded minivan. Post minivan we had 2005 MB E500 wagon (wife suggested the 350 but I figured I’d be doing the drive to cottage, let’s make it less boring). It was an automotive exercise in Rube Goldberg excess - the cupholder had more moving parts than my full suspension mountain bike, the airmatic suspension failed three times. In three years of ownership it spent more time in for service than all our other vehicles cumulatively over 15 years of marriage. ..never again a Mercedes. Happy with our Toyota.

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Where I live the most common cars to see dead at the roadside waiting for the hook are BMW's & Benz's.

Most common vehicle to see on its roof in the ditch after a 1" snowfall is a Jeep.

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On 4/20/2021 at 8:59 PM, Norm01 said:


Saw this boat in hobart before the wooden boat festival jan 2019 - can’t work  out what it is - looked up list for that years board and couldn’t find it anywhere - any ideas ? I’m guessing about 45 on deck - looked like tall rig - some spectra type rigging - any ideas 

E02C362D-79C6-453E-8C32-6C29E9461D53.jpeg

Can't remember any of the design specifics, but the reason she had the spectra rigging was she hot her rig tangled in the bowsprit of a large square rigger during the sail-past for the previous Wooden Boat Festival. Spent a long time sitting in that berth with a forlorn little stump before finally getting her rig replaced... That's my memory of it, anyhow. No idea where she is these days, sorry.

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18 hours ago, BobJ said:

I was thinking a dark blue boot stripe with a narrow band of the cream topsides color where it meets the green bottom paint.  No stripe with those colors looks right on small boats, not sure it would work here.

 

15 hours ago, BobJ said:

Hmm, that's two votes for black.  I was thinking a flag blue stripe would look almost black and would, at least in my mind, go with the dark blue logo and trim on the sails.

I think Flag Blue vs. black would be fine, but I would not go for a two-tone boot stripe.

BTW, my deck & house are Oyster - great color. My topsides are Carinthia Blue.

 

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On 4/23/2021 at 1:00 AM, Fleetwood said:

Trying to make it (the front end) look like a Ferrari......

Looks pretty close to original to me...

image.jpeg.180ebed8c08a87651c62c382b706078f.jpeg

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29 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I think I found my 'project car' Volvo 1800 ES

image.thumb.png.71d6fdee31f3ae31ce98d7837520c69f.png

 

Make sure the unique trim is intact - it will be hard to find.

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17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Most common vehicle to see on its roof in the ditch after a 1" snowfall is a Jeep.

That’s not an indication of the vehicle, but it speaks volumes about the person behind the wheel. 

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1 hour ago, mgs said:

That’s not an indication of the vehicle, but it speaks volumes about the person behind the wheel. 

They don't understand that all cars have 4 wheel brakes.

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Maybe the trail they are rated for cannot be seen by us. 
 

‘Roads? Where we’re going we don’t need roads’

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On 4/22/2021 at 9:18 AM, Cruisin Loser said:

Yeah, because the reality of trying to keep one running, even when they were new, was pretty f'n grim.

My high school GF's dad, a well to do neurosurgeon, had one. Nice interior. It had some advanced mechanical systems, which rarely worked. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. 

Growing up in Arizona, I'm thinking about 1962, my electrical / space engineer father bought a used  DS19- probably the only one in 100 miles. He also had the growing-up-dirt-poor-in-the-depression conviction that you fixed your own stuff. I recall years of my youth with masses of parts spread out on top of cardboard boxes in the carport.  

Later, in Santa Cruz, college friends bought one to drive to Baja (pre-highway). They seriously bent it in an impromptu off road incident that also blew out a lot of the hydraulics. It was miraculously repaired by Mexican mechanics and survived, but ever after went down the road slightly crab-wise. Eventually they decided the only way to keep it going would be to permanently mount an IV bottle of hydraulic fluid and run a drip. 

My own early automotive misadventures revolved around British cars, notably a 1956 Morgan that was mechanically, um, agricultural in sophistication (excepting the SU Carbs). Maybe seeing all those parts as a kid pushed me towards cars that could be fixed with a screwdriver, and adjustable wrench, and a hammer. 

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4 hours ago, Matagi said:

What's the verdict on this X-99?

x99_IMG_3072.jpg

 

The problem with questions like this is that, in order answer it, you have to have a long discussion about points of view, expectations,  use cases, etc.

The original rig was undoubtedly designed for speed or, possibly,  speed for rating. The junk rig was developed for no-drama, short-handed work, and for common, easily available materials. The modern junk rig here looks like it uses high-tech material. If the owner likes it, it's great. If not, then....

I'm reminded that Phil Bolger designed a sort of combination gaff/junk rig. The owner struggled with it for a while, then threw it overboard.

 

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Correct, as far as my understanding of that article in seilas.no went, the owner got a bit older but wanted to keep the X, so he made a bold move.

That's always cool.

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2 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

The problem with questions like this is that, in order answer it, you have to have a long discussion about points of view, expectations,  use cases, etc.

The original rig was undoubtedly designed for speed or, possibly,  speed for rating. The junk rig was developed for no-drama, short-handed work, and for common, easily available materials. The modern junk rig here looks like it uses high-tech material. If the owner likes it, it's great. If not, then....

I'm reminded that Phil Bolger designed a sort of combination gaff/junk rig. The owner struggled with it for a while, then threw it overboard.

 

This is the unsuccessful Bolger rig. It's a gaff rig with full length battens and control lines for each panel like a junk rig. The control lines are led to the short mast at the stern. Possibly, the problem was with weight, but I really don't know.

Alert Rig.png

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I always thought this to be a very inefficient sail, mainly because of the control lines in the back, if you have them causing drag where you wouldn't want it?

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5 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

I'm reminded that Phil Bolger designed a sort of combination gaff/junk rig. The owner struggled with it for a while, then threw it overboard.

 

So he junked it.

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3 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

This is the unsuccessful Bolger rig. It's a gaff rig with full length battens and control lines for each panel like a junk rig. The control lines are led to the short mast at the stern. Possibly, the problem was with weight, but I really don't know.

Alert Rig.png

Biggest difference between this and a genuine junk rig is the lack of counterbalance. The true junk has a portion of the sail ahead of the mast, reducing the tension on the sheets and making the sail that much more manageable.

Seems like a significant advantage to the junk rig, not sure what this hybrid system would be able to bring to the table

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2 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

Biggest difference between this and a genuine junk rig is the lack of counterbalance. The true junk has a portion of the sail ahead of the mast, reducing the tension on the sheets and making the sail that much more manageable.

Seems like a significant advantage to the junk rig, not sure what this hybrid system would be able to bring to the table

I think the hope was to get the easy reefing of the junk and the better sail shape of the gaff.

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This could go in several ongoing threads. SAPHAEDRA, 1965 Nielsen. This one is the epitome of the design day; Old trouts racing to Bermuda. 

2108327572_Saphaedracrop.thumb.jpg.412faf03ac9dbd5e0d01d0281b3e9bc9.jpg

Aage was pushing the limits of his raised coach design at 51' and over 13' on the beam. The side decks, we have them on this. We need them for the centerboard tweaker who probably had oversized biceps at the bar in Bermuda. 

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Once considered a very desirable feature of an offshore boat, the small cockpit,...

1834047498_Saphaedracockpit.thumb.jpg.402be220881699d4cd6dff6ecf21c6fd.jpg

... I think is a very un-desirable feature of a coastal boat. Sure, great for a single hander, the helmsmen as the watch feasts below,...

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But along the coast where does everyone go? The spacious aft deck, with a rumble seat,...

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...., to dodge the mizzen. Cockpit for one, but plenty of ocean swept deck for the crew. 

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But all is forgiven when you go below. Another belt old chap? 

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She has since been turbo charged with faux wood finished carbon fiber spars. That will make her plane. 

90525424_saphaedra(1of1).thumb.jpg.0f8a23ca3478b1c21dc7676c670c36b3.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Cockpit for one, but plenty of ocean swept deck for the crew. 

Do you think it's odd that a subsequent owner hasn't enlarged the cockpit. It looks like you could get a few feet aft of the mizzenmast... or bolt some Adirondack chairs to the deck.

A beauty nevertheless.

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1 minute ago, Bull City said:

Do you think it's odd that a subsequent owner hasn't enlarged the cockpit. It looks like you could get a few feet aft of the mizzenmast... or bolt some Adirondack chairs to the deck.

A beauty nevertheless.

My thoughts too. I suspect there may be some low accommodation lurking below. We coastal cruised for 20 years as a family of four, that cockpit would be worthless for us. Seems a design driven by a single focus. 

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Here she is on a Martha's Vineyard race. The small cockpit is split by a beam that holds the mainsheet blocks. That makes the bridgedeck unusable for seating. Looks like one other person got into the cockpit here. Everybody else stays on  deck. 

 

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