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37 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I have a theory: traditional rack and pinion steering gear was manufactured and used extensively along the northeastern seaboard of North America since the middle of nineteenth century (cf. Edson Marine of New Bedford) As fishing boats became pleasure boats and yachts, they brought their wheels with them. These were smaller diameter than is common today and did not obstruct the working area as a tiller might. To this day, there is a preference on the NE seaboard for wheels over tillers on yachts. That's my opinion.

You might be right. 

52154288_JenneyandEider.jpg.cb92af6d3cdfacad586e83ccd2a78ca7.jpg

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Adagio just started the Port Huron to Mackinaw race In her 52'nd year of racing. First large wood-epoxy boat boat built without fasteners. She rates faster than the Santa Cruz 70's.

I've been working on the S Boat painting from the photo I posted a few days ago, and I thought y'all might like to see how it's coming along. It's 12" X 24". I liked the composition of the photo,

Does it come with a codpiece?  And I can easily singlehand or cruise with the wife and no crew. I say that a lot when I see an exotic, beautiful car, or a mansion that is just too f'n big

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7 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Why oh why would one put a wheel on such a cutie...

LUCY.thumb.jpeg.ec47213ce26e18fcaf1e004fa906ce70.jpeg1238491499_Lucyquarter.thumb.jpeg.14bd67a954578813efd5fb3a20f7c533.jpeg

 

To save cockpit space. That would be a one-person cockpit with a tiller. 

That's not the rudder hanging off the back end of the boat, it's the sternpost. This is a sophisticated little yacht with a lot of subtle details in design and construction.

I haven't seen the construction drawings of the boat, but I have stared at it a lot. She is a miniature Holger Danske, whose drawings are available. (Holger Danske won the Newport Bermuda Race about 40 years ago, by the way, so these "fat" double-enders aren't necessarily slow.)

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4 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

There are several of Nielsens double enders here in the harbor. 

703264322_Fern(1of1).thumb.jpg.fa5e9164821e5814ee3ecf7504729849.jpg

I know just enough about plank and frame construction to see these plank ends protesting. Wood torture.  

1755159754_Fernstern(1of1).thumb.jpg.5830b0895deccef00e5e37e5d830a377.jpg

 

Planking a round stern is not for the inexperienced or the faint of heart. The big sternpost of these Nielsen designs at least gives plenty of meat in the rabbet to drive screws into.

Generally, there is a fair amount of taper in the planking at the stern, and until you get to the shutter plank, you can pull/push the planks into position with a combination of clamps and wedges.

Note that this smaller double-ender has an outboard rudder with tiller.

Fiberglass made it a hell of a lot easier to build  this stern shape.

The 40' fiberglass double-ender I built had an outboard rudder, and started life with a tiller, because I had never had wheel steering, even on my previous 50-footer.

My wife couldn't steer the double-ender in a breeze with the tiller, so we had a custom Whitlock shaft drive wheel steering system built after the first-year shakedown cruise. Thanks to PYI on the West Coast for the engineering on that one, and New England Boatworks for the complex work on the installation. it still works fine 25 years later, according to the current owner of the boat.

An outboard rudder typically has a lot more total surface area than an inboard rudder, and the loads can be pretty high at speed as the boat heels and immersed rudder area increases.

It is all, as they say, a balancing act. Aage Nielsen knew how to balance things.

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On 9/13/2021 at 10:40 AM, Hukilau said:

First time I went to France, the small hotel we were staying in let me use their computer to print out my boarding passes for the next leg of our trip.  I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get to the website until I looked closely at the keyboard and figured out that they do things differently there.  It's like Steve Martin used to say:  "Those French have a different word for everything."

    A few years back the Customs in Gustavia, St Barts had just changed to a new kiosk and keyboard entry and departure system in their cute little office right on the town wharf. It was pretty much do it yourself and was a long awaited time saving measure and I was happy to pull up to a keyboard and start typing in the boat and crew info and was anticipating setting a new record for clearing in. Once you go through all the onscreen prompts and typed in all the blanks you logged out and went to the cashiers window to pay your cruising fee and port dues. Once there I got a scowl at the clerk who called a superior over and pointed at the screen showing my 'paperwork'. I was told to go back and log in and correct my mistakes in typing. On my second try I finally realized that they were using French coded keyboards and there was no way in hell I could decipher what I was supposed to be entering. I think that the US boats entering French waters and waiting to get to a keyboard outnumbered any other nationality yet we all were derided for not understanding a French keyboard! 

image.png.4d54c607b2bbd77ee544c5cef7a4335d.png

 

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3 hours ago, accnick said:

Planking a round stern is not for the inexperienced or the faint of heart. The big sternpost of these Nielsen designs at least gives plenty of meat in the rabbet to drive screws into.

Generally, there is a fair amount of taper in the planking at the stern, and until you get to the shutter plank, you can pull/push the planks into position with a combination of clamps and wedges.

Note that this smaller double-ender has an outboard rudder with tiller.

Fiberglass made it a hell of a lot easier to build  this stern shape.

The 40' fiberglass double-ender I built had an outboard rudder, and started life with a tiller, because I had never had wheel steering, even on my previous 50-footer.

My wife couldn't steer the double-ender in a breeze with the tiller, so we had a custom Whitlock shaft drive wheel steering system built after the first-year shakedown cruise. Thanks to PYI on the West Coast for the engineering on that one, and New England Boatworks for the complex work on the installation. it still works fine 25 years later, according to the current owner of the boat.

An outboard rudder typically has a lot more total surface area than an inboard rudder, and the loads can be pretty high at speed as the boat heels and immersed rudder area increases.

It is all, as they say, a balancing act. Aage Nielsen knew how to balance things.

If the boat really is balanced there shouldn't be high steering loads, rudder area notwithstanding.

Apparently Frankie - over 60' double ender - steers with a couple of fingers, even at speed.

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I enjoyed helping build them and I like the steam box as one of the most important devices invented in the shipbuilding industry from the old days of wooden construction. 
 

Now you can pop a mold off the most extreme design with little problem. Try building a clipper bow in wood. 

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2 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Now you can pop a mold off the most extreme design with little problem. Try building a clipper bow in wood. 

some of those weird IOR sterns and bustles were built in wood.  There must have been a lot of pain and cursing involved as the wood was coerced into those hollows.

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

some of those weird IOR sterns and bustles were built in wood.  There must have been a lot of pain and cursing involved as the wood was coerced into those hollows.

 

4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Yep. It would be a lot easier if they were strip planked. Carvel planking is a sumbich if it isn’t steamed and bent just right. 

I doubt many (or any) IOR boats were carvel planked.

Was there any purpose in that ridiculous little fillet in the transom that S&S were so enamored of for a few years in the 70's?.

Well, other than pissing off boatbuilders that is.

Tartan 41 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy ForumsNorthstar 500 - Dryden | Thunder Bay Yacht ClubKeel repair on 1972 Hughes Northstar 1000 sailboat - Album on Imgur

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

 

I doubt many (or any) IOR boats were carvel planked.

Was there any purpose in that ridiculous little fillet in the transom that S&S were so enamored of for a few years in the 70's?.

Well, other than pissing off boatbuilders that is.

Tartan 41 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy ForumsNorthstar 500 - Dryden | Thunder Bay Yacht ClubKeel repair on 1972 Hughes Northstar 1000 sailboat - Album on Imgur

Well, the owner said he wanted a wine glass transom...

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I suspect the fillet was a solid piece that was added to the canoe body. Stronger and way less fussy.

Usually done in the mold. A little fussy to prevent voids between the gelcoat and the laminate, but not that bad for an experienced laminator. That's the great advantage of fiberglass construction.

Complex shapes such as tumblehome and reverse transoms usually require a split mold, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I suspect the reason was to reduce crossflow under the transom when the boat was heeled over. Not sure if it did much or not. Bob Perry would know.

By the way, many of the cold-molded IOR hulls had the rule-driven rudder skeg done as an external wood add-on to the fair body of the hull after the hull was molded. Same with the added B and girth station bumps.

We used to use a custom radius gauge to check that the bumps met the minimum radius requirements. I may still have one of those sitting around almost 40 years after it was last used in anger.

Likewise, on the 12mR Intrepid, the stern bustle added after the original construction was made out of pine, epoxy, and microballoons. A friend of mine, Paul Coble, who was project manager on Intrepid for several Cups, oversaw that and told me how it was done.

It was also fairly easy to undo after the fact if it proved to be wrong.

Race boats are always a work in progress. Since the 12mR AC boats were dry-sailed, it was fairly easy to keep  quick and dirty modifications from falling apart, and as long as the structural hull was not breached, you didn't compromise the Lloyds compliance.

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On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

Lobsterpot magnet.

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

Doghouse by Duffy?

Duffy-22-Sun-Cruiser-600x400-1 Sun Cruiser 22

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

Probably a nice ride, but I don't envy that keel if it's getting sailed locally. 

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4 hours ago, accnick said:

Usually done in the mold. A little fussy to prevent voids between the gelcoat and the laminate, but not that bad for an experienced laminator. That's the great advantage of fiberglass construction.

 

I was talking about traditional wooden yacht construction. Yes, you can do anything you want with fiberglass.

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5 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

Cabin trunk is a bit of a eyesore.

http://www.tripp.design/custom-yachts/on-the-boards/design-270-45-14m780E7808-F2A8-4EF5-BE56-64201DAF9662.thumb.jpeg.2e66bcd21908c9375cbb7a91517efd88.jpeg

Composite sprit would require only a small tin of varnish.

Nice stinkpot in the background.

F1F08101-4A4B-41CB-87C1-C7E450B3DD28.thumb.jpeg.eef41bd0e764ed185e1e5d69bb70954b.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Cabin trunk is a bit of a eyesore.

http://www.tripp.design/custom-yachts/on-the-boards/design-270-45-14m780E7808-F2A8-4EF5-BE56-64201DAF9662.thumb.jpeg.2e66bcd21908c9375cbb7a91517efd88.jpeg

Composite sprit would require only a small tin of varnish.

Nice stinkpot in the background.

F1F08101-4A4B-41CB-87C1-C7E450B3DD28.thumb.jpeg.eef41bd0e764ed185e1e5d69bb70954b.jpeg

True.  That couch roof is a bit meh.

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48 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

This ticks the boxes for several ongoing threads. 

2097416131_ScreenShot2021-10-17at3_29_31PM.thumb.png.9b671e513d249cf87e2b92a8e762d139.png

Most uncomfortable helm seat.

Most uncomfortable crew seating.

Worst ergonomics for crew work.

Worst toilet facilities.

Not a candidate for ugly dodger thread, however.

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2 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

True.  That couch roof is a bit meh.

Way beyond meh and well into butt ugly.

Looks like he was trying for some sort of Herreshoff NY 30 look.

Even Herreshoff couldn't make that work.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Way beyond meh and well into butt ugly.

Looks like he was trying for some sort of Herreshoff NY 30 look.

Even Herreshoff couldn't make that work.

For those of us who have owned and loved Herreshoff designs from the early 20th century, you are really going to need to explain those comments with regard to the NY 30.

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4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

This ticks the boxes for several ongoing threads. 

2097416131_ScreenShot2021-10-17at3_29_31PM.thumb.png.9b671e513d249cf87e2b92a8e762d139.png

I think Mrs. Bull and I could Foxtrot or Cha-cha in that cockpit, while moored. That's about all I can say that's nice.

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10 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

On our dog walk yesterday I snapped this new build in the slings. All the new stuff around here is wood composite these days. 

From the builder: Under construction is Tripp Design #270. We are thrilled to collaborate with @trippdesignna @mcmnewport and wonderful owners. This is a performance oriented yacht with focus on ease of sailing short handed and single handed.

Tripp.thumb.jpg.2506ac10b220a154dbabbfeb932b337b.jpg

The deckhouse is unattractive plain ugly. Alden could made something  nice.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That would be like sailing in the bed of a pickup.

I thought this was the cool boats to admire thread, not the cockpit cushions and coamings thread.

Your statement-or opinion-could probably blanket most open cockpit racers, sport boats and (non traditional throwback) daysailers built in the last 20 or 30 years, of which this design is a hybrid. From the Farr 40 to the Columbia 32 to the VX1 to some of the RS boats, this cockpit design has been widely adopted and if well executed is a tad more comfortable than the flatbed of a pickup. It’s a sport boat/ daysailer, not a gunboat.

I posted it to take the edge off that eyebleach open cockpit day sailor above. Compare the two seating/hiking arrangements if you must...

Say what you want, but the lines on the Maxi Dolphin 33 are right on the money to my eye...and if you think it’s lacking in comfort for a sporty day sailor/racer(it has provisions for running back stays and some owners have a ‘race traveller’ fitted end boom) hunt down some pics of its small, minimalist but very well executed cabin.

 The other thing that it’s got going for it over a flatbed pickup is a cooler compartment recessed under the cabin sole. A pickup would probably get by with a tin wash basin full of  ice or maybe a cheap Colemans. Not for this civilized beauty.

And as for a hillbilly diesel tank that any self respecting pickup driver might have on its flatbed, the Maxi Dolphin has pesky engine related things like that discreetly tucked away, like with its Vetus underwater exhaust...(insert gripe about needless complexity)...

Sure, this design is admittedly less comfortable than my current boat, but I still dig it enough to admire it.

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42 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Interior...

4.jpg

Like I said, it’s a sport boat not a gunboat. It’s a cuddy cabin for sure...the version I saw was really well done with ultra suede throughout covering the fore peak, the stowaway head, and the two ample settees that are obscured in this decidedly sub par representation. High end stereo and a simple systems panel and vhf to round it out.
 

As long as activities were to be restricted to being seated or horizontal down below, I think I could hack it for a night or two...in my slip close to a real head and shower...

 

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49 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Brisk conditions?  It's a lake boat.

Lakes can be brisk, and are frequently gusty.

Can you imagine getting hit with a big gust on VIRIELLA II, and heeling in excess of 45º, or a knock-down, (which I experienced on our lake) with just those little foot blocks to keep you on the windward side, or from a swan dive onto the main?

VIRIELLA is a Euro-trash an international luxury yacht - need I say more?

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50 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Lakes can be brisk, and are frequently gusty.

Can you imagine getting hit with a big gust on VIRIELLA II, and heeling in excess of 45º, or a knock-down, (which I experienced on our lake) with just those little foot blocks to keep you on the windward side, or from a swan dive onto the main?

 

I'm game to give it a go...

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

I kinda like VIRIELLA actually.  Its like a modern day version of a Herreshoff Watch Hill 15.  

image.png.c6f5ed8698b9dc4e4134b79d8a6e4957.png

or Buzzards Bay 18

image.png.63514170d002e59c0a60f1962cee50d5.png

Maui, I cannot agree with you on this one. Maybe "modern day" but also full of bad ideas.

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I just feel like these Herreshoff models were the sports boat of their day with minimal to no accommodations.  This feels like a modern version of the same kind of thing and is very similar to the more racier versions like the Viper, Melges, Rocket, Shaw, SB20, etc...   This one is just fancier and less racier, but the layout and feel will be the same.

Top speed and new builder for the VX One

 

VX One Sails - One Design Sails and Accessories - Quantum Sails

J70 Running Rigging

Melges 20 - Melges

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8 minutes ago, Bull City said:

@MauiPunter I get your point, but as an old fart a mature fellow, I would feel comfortable in the Herreshoff for hours on end; in one of those pictured above, no. 

Yea, I totally get it. I too would enjoy the H boats.  More relaxing.  The sport boats seem like work.

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Brisk conditions?  It's a lake boat.

I've put the mast in the water on a lake 1.5 miles by 3. Gone from 3kts wind to 65 in -- not joking -- five seconds. The flat-cockpit daysailers pictured are specifically intended for mountain lakes like Garda, Geneva, and Como; and anyone who has sailed on Tahoe, Dillon, or Granby in the US has stories about sudden microbursts from completely random directions, often out of a blue sky. I like nice deep benches you can brace across when the world goes katabatic.

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

Yea, I totally get it. I too would enjoy the H boats.  More relaxing.  The sport boats seem like work.

Yeah, you would. At least on the VX1, you would. It's one of the most comfy boats I've ever sailed, of any size.

The only awkward thing on it is going forward past the cheese-cutter shrouds to the gooseneck (actually, to the upper end of the gnav).

FB- Doug

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If i want to go fast, gonna stay on a lake, This is what I want to sail.  Get to go fast, pull a waterskier if I so choose and have a party all at the same time.  

Its just been right since 1892

image.thumb.jpeg.af1fa9168fd08a9989c2229851a41a3a.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Work. The curse of the drinking class.

Indeed. I just got this to replace my kids' Lego ships:

1DSC07129.thumb.jpg.176d6308ebbb7d15a280940daa361a5b.jpg

(In fact, I saw this last week in the Technikmuseum in Berlin, a model fully made of Amber. A piece of art)

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On 10/17/2021 at 3:28 PM, Ishmael said:

Most uncomfortable helm seat.

Most uncomfortable crew seating.

Worst ergonomics for crew work.

Worst toilet facilities.

Not a candidate for ugly dodger thread, however.

Missed one, worst case of weather helm since the advent of IOR.

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That is a Vindö 45 (I believe the sail area in sqm is what determined the model name, not length).

Here is a 50, on the road to the winter location, behind a nice old 'Trecker', as Germans say.

Undoubtedly, everyone in the queue behind enjoyed this beautiful look ;)

 

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4 hours ago, Malaya said:

I sailed on a Custom Columbia 50 in Maui cira 1978 named Fire Bird, sure looks like this one.

I wonder if that's the same boat as "Island Star" now moored in Ma'alea.
island-star-cover-1.jpg

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50 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I wonder if that's the same boat as "Island Star" now moored in Ma'alea.
island-star-cover-1.jpg

That's a Columbia 57.

There was one locally, Lioness, when I had my 43.

They are spectacularly beautiful - that pic doesn't remotely do them justice.

Pretty sure Kris's pic is a custom Col 50 - there were a small handful done in similar fashion.

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On 10/25/2021 at 2:26 AM, Panope said:

I know nothing of trimarans, but I thought this one looked cool.

Anyone know what it is?

Steve

1khsYhq.jpg

Steve, I was in the yard in July when a guy hauled out what he called his Crowther 34 Buccaneer, launched in 1997.  He isn't the original owner.  It was sailed in the 2017 R2AK by someone else.  Boat name was/is? Lung Ta which I believe has a history with the NW Multihull Association in Seattle.  He'd kept it in Pt Hadlock for a few years after he bought it.  He was going to do a bunch of work on it.  

P1050213.JPG

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