Coolboats to admire

[MFH125 160]

5 minutes ago, accnick said:

Nat Herreshoff designed and built one of the earliest racing catamarans: Amaryllis, in 1876.

He actually patented the structural details of his catamaran designs.

Fred Hughes owned Amaryllis as well as a slightly later, larger Herreshoff cat. That photo looks very much like a Herreshoff catamaran. He built several near-sisters that had hull lengths of around 33 feet.

Due to the patent, Fearon operated under a license from Herreshoff.

The structural details are interesting.  The hulls could pitch independently, which was probably needed to minimize the twisting loads on the akas.

[Veeger 470]

2 hours ago, MFH125 said:

Are old cats still cool cats? 

I recently found this photo of a catamaran from the 1880s called PRIMO.  PRIMO was built by Thomas Fearon in Yonker's NY and was 33 feet long.  She was one of 7 catamarans that Fearon built for owner Fred Hughes.

I'd pay money to get to sail on a boat like this.  The modern ocean racers Mod 60's, IMOCA's etc hold no attraction in comparison.

[Diarmuid 1,331]

18 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

MIST is a cool boat this am, covered in frost! 

I don't know where to begin. Let's start with this: the lifting keel and box structure, carbon fiber, was built in old England. See, despite our differences, we work together.  

For Bull: Electric drive with a 47 hp Nanni on top to charge the Li-ion banks. 

Crisp corners back here(I keep seeing blood!)!

Nice decks!

All blond wood finished bright below you can easily see through the ports. Not grandads floating wooden 'coffin'. 

Traveler! Yes, old school. 

I am amazed what our local boat builders turn out. 

 

What's the backstay arrangement on Mist? Removable runners, B&R rig?

It is a nice looker from this angle. Sharp corners bother me more as stress concentrators than bruise generators, but I could dunt myself in a coracle. Many of those crisp angles may be generously filleted underneath, where we can't see.

[floater 692]

19 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

..Electric drive with a 47 hp Nanni on top to charge the Li-ion banks. 

w

 

Obviously an extremely cool boat. Trying to understand what a 47hp generator means. If 1hp = 75 watts then, 47hp is about 35kW.

If I peruse Oceanvolt website the largest motor I see is 20kW. So, might the 47hp Nanni have enough oomph to both turn the motor as well as put a little charge in the batteries? Interesting.

also, note that this motor can be used as a generator itself: boat cruising at 6knots can generate 300W. So, the hydro screw is 0.3kW vs. the diesel burner at 35kw. is less than 1%! So, it would seem that the future of self-regen. in an electric sailboat perhaps not so much.. although - highly likely I'm missing something here.

I'd note we don't see a superfluity of solar panels either. Using a diesel generator to drive an electric motor is an interesting notion - a hybrid boat - however, see that thick yellow cord, its actually a plug-in hybrid!

 

[Priscilla 2,800]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:50 PM, Norm01 said:

 

Prescilla,

The above has been taken from the Townson owners association page  - as you say  3 windows look  same as 36 - did look longer by eye 

 

 

 

The only Townson 40 I know of is Cezanne with a retrousse stern.

 

[MFH125 160]

2 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

It is a nice looker from this angle. Sharp corners bother me more as stress concentrators than bruise generators, but I could dunt myself in a coracle. Many of those crisp angles may be generously filleted underneath, where we can't see.

Hard to tell from the photos, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mist is wood epoxy, not composite, and that those sharp corners are where various deck panels meet.  You still need to reinforce joints, but there aren't the issues associated with fibers going around a very tight radius.

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

20 hours ago, us7070 said:

any more pics?

 

I don't, yet. Will try. Here's a review before it was built. It's basically cold moulded wood with an interesting composite of carbon fiber and foam. 

https://maineboats.com/print/issue-167/tripp-45-modern-wood-composite-daysailer

[Matagi 1,443]

So that's the one. I saw it on Tripp's IG

Thanks Kris

[Irrational 14 412]

[Liquid 640]

18 hours ago, Irrational 14 said:

So very nice!

I love how small the kite is vs what it is now!

[Jim in Halifax 593]

As a young dinghy sailor, it was on the International 14 that I was the most euphoric while being simultaneously terrified. If I told you how many times I went from out on the trapeze to around the lee of the forestay after burying the bow in a wave, you wouldn't believe me. When I started working in the offshore, with regular 3-year visits for helicopter dunker training, it was a cakewalk after crewing on a 14.

[Bull City 2,578]

33 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

When I started working in the offshore, with regular 3-year visits for helicopter dunker training, it was a cakewalk after crewing on a 14.

Details please. Thank you.

[Jim in Halifax 593]

1 minute ago, Bull City said:

Details please. Thank you.

After the Ocean Ranger disaster off Newfoundland in 1982, the authorities decreed that everyone working offshore must have Basic Survival Training. This involved basic marine firefighting, survival suit practice, sea day in a TEMPSC (Totally Enclosed Motor Propelled Survival Craft...i.e. lifeboat) and deploying and boarding liferafts in the water, and, for the piece de resistance. three successful dunker crashes. Similar to military helicopter egress training, or fighter ditching sled simulations, The dunker is fuselage section with seats, belts, emergency escape windows, all configurable to a variety of commercial offshore-rated helicopters. The dunker is deployed over a deep, unheated swimming pool (with rescue SCUBA divers standing by). It is designed to sink rapidly and invert while sinking, simulating a helicopter ditching at sea. A lot of bubbles, water up the nose, in the ears, and disorientation ensues. The trainees practice landmarking their exit, releasing the emergency exit, unbuckling, and swimming to the surface. Some people hated it, (I actually enjoyed it, along with the 'bonus' challenges like getting a liferaft or ELT out during the escape) some didn't mind, but everyone had to do it as a condition of work. I like to think that the BST course every 3 years made me a safer sailor, all paid for by the oil companies.

[Bull City 2,578]

2 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

After the Ocean Ranger disaster off Newfoundland in 1982, the authorities decreed that everyone working offshore must have Basic Survival Training. This involved basic marine firefighting, survival suit practice, sea day in a TEMPSC (Totally Enclosed Motor Propelled Survival Craft...i.e. lifeboat) and deploying and boarding liferafts in the water, and, for the piece de resistance. three successful dunker crashes. Similar to military helicopter egress training, or fighter ditching sled simulations, The dunker is fuselage section with seats, belts, emergency escape windows, all configurable to a variety of commercial offshore-rated helicopters. The dunker is deployed over a deep, unheated swimming pool (with rescue SCUBA divers standing by). It is designed to sink rapidly and invert while sinking, simulating a helicopter ditching at sea. A lot of bubbles, water up the nose, in the ears, and disorientation ensues. The trainees practice landmarking their exit, releasing the emergency exit, unbuckling, and swimming to the surface. Some people hated it, (I actually enjoyed it, along with the 'bonus' challenges like getting a liferaft or ELT out during the escape) some didn't mind, but everyone had to do it as a condition of work. I like to think that the BST course every 3 years made me a safer sailor, all paid for by the oil companies.

Shite! Glad I was a fat-arsed banker.

[Jim in Halifax 593]

Probably not much different than a lot of the stuff the military does. I was young, hardy, and a bit cocky. It was kinda fun. I pity the young guys and gals that got stuck-in to the oil patch in the last decade - dead end career move (although fossil fuel isn't going to disappear in my lifetime, or probably in my kids' either).

[Kolibri 463]

I've always liked the lines of the Pearson Triton. Here's one on Reudi Reservoir near Basalt, Colorado. Rob, the owner hosted my family at the Aspen Yacht Club years ago. It was a very laid back setting with some really nice people.

 

 

[Son of Hans 53]

Another oldie: I know nothing about this boat except that I took the picture in Guadalupe in 1976.  I'm not usually a fan of prominent deck houses, but somehow this manages to look right.

[MFH125 160]

10 hours ago, Son of Hans said:

Another oldie: I know nothing about this boat except that I took the picture in Guadalupe in 1976.  I'm not usually a fan of prominent deck houses, but somehow this manages to look right.

The bow screams S&S to me.  Maybe it's ALSUMAR?   The skylights on the deck seem different, but the deckhouse and general size seem about right.

 

[accnick 1,733]

45 minutes ago, MFH125 said:

The bow screams S&S to me.  Maybe it's ALSUMAR?   The skylights on the deck seem different, but the deckhouse and general size seem about right.

 

Very similar, for sure, but the one in your 1976 photo is a ketch, and Alsumar a yawl. Of course, that could have been changed. I had a boat back in the 1970s that had had four completely different rigs over its 50-year lifetime.

It's interesting that the mizzen mast on the ketch does not appear to have spreaders.

Steering Alsumar under power will require a bit of attention, with that radically offset prop. I had one of those in a boat long ago. You didn't do a lot of extended motoring with it, but you knew how it was going to back down : poorly.

When I was in college. I used to devour those design pages in old issues of Yachting and Rudder. The descriptions were as mesmerizing as the drawings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:16 PM, us7070 said:

any more pics?

 

I don't, yet. Will try. Here's a review before it was built. It's basically cold moulded wood with an interesting composite of carbon fiber and foam. 

https://maineboats.com/print/issue-167/tripp-45-modern-wood-composite-daysailer

 

MIST in slings. Great looking boat! 

[Priscilla 2,800]

Mizpah.

[TwoLegged 2,238]

16 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

MIST in slings. Great looking boat! 

It seem that somebody stole all Bill Trip's curves

[HotSnail 19]

You mean a ruler?

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

It seem that somebody stole all Bill Trip's curves

He did, but did Jr. steal dads legacy? Only time will tell that. 

 

 

[TwoLegged 2,238]

30 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

He did, but did Jr. steal dads legacy? Only time will tell that. 

His father had the advantage of working in an era when lots of boats were being built.  It's hard for any designer in North America to build a reputation on the small volumes of current production. 

Sure, a high proportion of new build yachts in North America seem to be high-end custom or semi-custom boats, which is where Tripp Jr is working.  But even so, it's small beer compared to the 1960s and 1970s.

It's different in Europe, were production volumes are much higher.  

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

Another generational boat design/build history: RECLUTA. "Designed in 1944 by German Frers (Snr.) and built by his son over 70 years later."

Now all wrapped up in a new book by granddaughter/daughter, Zelmira Frers: 

Zelmira conceived the book as a movie, in chronological order:
„It tells three stories at the same time, the construction of Recluta, the growing passion of my father since childhood, and a continuous reflection of the passing of time and knowledge transmission. In the book, there are many characters talking and giving their ideas. In fact, what I like the most is that I created a big conversation between people of different ages and of different times.“

 

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:53 AM, Kris Cringle said:

I don't, yet. Will try. Here's a review before it was built. It's basically cold moulded wood with an interesting composite of carbon fiber and foam. 

https://maineboats.com/print/issue-167/tripp-45-modern-wood-composite-daysailer

 

MIST in slings. Great looking boat! 

And sails nicely. The builder is doing seatrials on the new boat, these days. They often do this in the late fall getting all the kinks worked out of the new boat. Then they can put it away in working order. They have the bay to themselves. 

[us7070 308]

47 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Sure, a high proportion of new build yachts in North America seem to be high-end custom or semi-custom boats, which is where Tripp Jr is working.  But even so, it's small beer compared to the 1960s and 1970s.

It's different in Europe, were production volumes are much higher.  

I'm pretty sure that a high percentage of Tripp's boats are in Europe for European owners.., and if you calculated the percentage by the foot it would be even greater

[TwoLegged 2,238]

1 hour ago, us7070 said:

I'm pretty sure that a high percentage of Tripp's boats are in Europe for European owners.., and if you calculated the percentage by the foot it would be even greater

I haven't seen any evidence of that, tho tbf I haven't looked hard.

[us7070 308]

13 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

I haven't seen any evidence of that, tho tbf I haven't looked hard.

http://www.trippdesign.net/custom-yachts/aquijo-282-86m

he has an office in Amsterdam...

[TwoLegged 2,238]

1 minute ago, us7070 said:

http://www.trippdesign.net/custom-yachts/aquijo-282-86m

he has an office in Amsterdam...

Thanks, 7070.  I wasn't aware that he was in superyacht biz.  Obscenely vulgar boats, but I'm sure that work pays well.

[SloopJonB 12,547]

3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Another generational boat design/build history: RECLUTA. "Designed in 1944 by German Frers (Snr.) and built by his son over 70 years later."

Now all wrapped up in a new book by granddaughter/daughter, Zelmira Frers: 

Zelmira conceived the book as a movie, in chronological order:
„It tells three stories at the same time, the construction of Recluta, the growing passion of my father since childhood, and a continuous reflection of the passing of time and knowledge transmission. In the book, there are many characters talking and giving their ideas. In fact, what I like the most is that I created a big conversation between people of different ages and of different times.“

 

She sure looks like her dad.

[KC375 1,808]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:21 PM, Jim in Halifax said:

As a young dinghy sailor, it was on the International 14 that I was the most euphoric while being simultaneously terrified. If I told you how many times I went from out on the trapeze to around the lee of the forestay after burying the bow in a wave, you wouldn't believe me. When I started working in the offshore, with regular 3-year visits for helicopter dunker training, it was a cakewalk after crewing on a 14.

As a skinny 14 year old my first boat was a Kirby V, still competitive but the cool guys with wallets were buying Beikers. I talked one of my older brother’s buddies (college football player) to hang on the wire for me (single trap in the day) – it was exciting enough that a varsity Jock would be willing to spend time with a high school kid (that and the poolside talent at the yacht club had some appeal).

On light wind days I’d go solo helming from the wire, if I misjudged the wind or it came up while out there I was reminded of two things:

1.       What it must have felt like to be the stone leaving David’s sling...and

2.       I was not heavy enough to right the boat on my own ...

God I miss being so stupid and so alive in the moment.

[accnick 1,733]

2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

She sure looks like her dad.

As does her brother, Mani (German Frers III).

 

[Matagi 1,443]

Vänta-Litet, an A22 skerrycruiser from 1982.

[Steam Flyer 8,371]

29 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Vänta-Litet, an A22 skerrycruiser from 1982.

WOW 

There is a boat I would marry, in a heartbeat.

- DSK

[SloopJonB 12,547]

40 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Vänta-Litet, an A22 skerrycruiser from 1982.

Hogged sheers just look wrong.

Even all that varnish can't make it right.

[Sailbydate 3,604]

2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Hogged sheers just look wrong.

Even all that varnish can't make it right.

Agree. I've never felt comfortable with the look of reverse sheer boats. But my understanding is, in design terms, it helps to flatten out  their rocker and delivers long, flat aft runs (great for fast, planing hulls shapes). 

Possible exception might be AC75's. But even these contraptions tend to make IOR boats reasonably attractive. ;-)

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Hogged sheers just look wrong.

Even all that varnish can't make it right.

Are we seeing a hogged sheer, or is it a raised deck above a traditional sheer? I think I see a 'knuckle', sort of, as a deck line. 

If I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, I want to patent the idea right now. 

[MFH125 160]

1 minute ago, Kris Cringle said:

Are we seeing a hogged sheer, or is it a raised deck above a traditional sheer? I think I see a 'knuckle', sort of, as a deck line. 

If I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, I want to patent the idea right now. 

Very hard to tell from the angle at which the picture is taken, but I think that the upper most strake isn't smooth with the rest of the hull, but leans inward leaving a distinct corner which forms a more traditional sheer.

I guess it's not for everyone, but personally, I find the boat pretty striking looking.

[Ishmael 10,527]

1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Are we seeing a hogged sheer, or is it a raised deck above a traditional sheer? I think I see a 'knuckle', sort of, as a deck line. 

If I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, I want to patent the idea right now. 

Johann Tanzer beat you to it.

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

The loneliest man in the world owns a 100' daysailer with a mosh pit in the middle, but he has no friends to take out. 

 

[Cruisin Loser 2,657]

The Stone Horse did it before the Cal20 , I think. 

[slap 975]

4 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

The Stone Horse did it before the Cal20 , I think. 

Sailboatdata.com says the Stone Horse was first built in 1931.   A bit before the Cal 20.  But I wouldn't be surprised if the idea is even older than that.

[Diarmuid 1,331]

Albin Vega has a slight reverse sheer.

No one's idea of a looker, tho.

[MFH125 160]

On 11/18/2021 at 6:59 PM, Matagi said:

Vänta-Litet, an A22 skerrycruiser from 1982.

@Matagi, do you have any more info on her?  Googling has got me nowhere, unfortunately.  Although, I did learn that Vänta-Litet means "wait a little" in Swedish, which is a pretty good boat name.

[Cruisin Loser 2,657]

Amphibicon started in the early 1950's, strip planked construction. 

 

[Bull City 2,578]

5 hours ago, Voiled said:

A German designer known for this feature Is Reinke:

https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/31909/REINKE-HYDRA.html

That is just, well... ugly.

[Bull City 2,578]

The Thunderbird does the reverse sheer kind of nicely. The feature is not something I would seek out.

Actually, it's probably a straight sheer.

 

[Matagi 1,443]

Very nice, that reminds me of Mauric's Kertios III

Very nice restauration project as well. 

[Matagi 1,443]

4 hours ago, MFH125 said:

@Matagi, do you have any more info on her?  Googling has got me nowhere, unfortunately.  Although, I did learn that Vänta-Litet means "wait a little" in Swedish, which is a pretty good boat name.

Not much  sadly, it's S-359 in the register, here is more on all boats of the class.

[accnick 1,733]

5 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Albin Vega has a slight reverse sheer.

No one's idea of a looker, tho.

Looking at the profile drawings for this one, the hull sheerline is an absolutely straight line.

[accnick 1,733]

2 hours ago, Bull City said:

The Thunderbird does the reverse sheer kind of nicely. The feature is not something I would seek out.

Actually, it's probably a straight sheer.

 

The Thunderbird design is another one where the sheeerline is an absolutely straight line, not a reverse sheer. It is designed to be built of plywood sheets, which cannot be bent into compound shapes.

It looks reverse because it is narrower at bow and stern than in the middle. If you take that shape and rotate it in 3D, as in the photo, it will always look like a reverse sheer.

[Bull City 2,578]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:06 PM, Kris Cringle said:

If I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, I want to patent the idea right now. 

So we're seeing a straight sheer (which I agree with) as a reverse sheer. I'm with KC on this.

[Diarmuid 1,331]

2 hours ago, accnick said:

Looking at the profile drawings for this one, the hull sheerline is an absolutely straight line.

Not according to most sources, including Per Brohall. From Wiki:

Quote

The Vega is a recreational keelboat, built predominantly of fibreglass, with wood trim. It has a masthead sloop rig with aluminum spars, a deck-stepped mast, wire standing rigging and a single set of unswept spreaders. The hull has a slightly reverse sheer line, a spooned raked stem, an angled transom, a keel-mounted rudder controlled by a tiller and a fixed modified long keel, with a cutaway forefoot

 

[SloopJonB 12,547]

8 hours ago, Bull City said:

The Thunderbird does the reverse sheer kind of nicely. The feature is not something I would seek out.

Actually, it's probably a straight sheer.

 

I'm pretty sure the T-Bird has a dead flat sheer, not reversed.

It was designed for the plywood manufacturers association as a promotional thing so curves of any sort were minimized.

 

Edit: Accnick beat me to it.

[MFH125 160]

12 minutes ago, Voiled said:

Allow me to correct this with some "knuckled" raised sheer:

I guess that tumblehome in the upper strakes serves a real purpose for a boat with leeboards.  Gets that board nice and vertical while heeled over going upwind.

[accnick 1,733]

10 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Not according to most sources, including Per Brohall. From Wiki:

 

All I did was put a straghtedge out the outboard profile drawing of the boat. It was a straight line, so I don't know.

[Bull City 2,578]

I think the straight sheer can initially look like a reverse, since the eye is used to seeing a forward(?) normal sheer.

[accnick 1,733]

20 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I think the straight sheer can initially look like a reverse, since the eye is used to seeing a forward(?) normal sheer.

A straight sheerline, in combination with any transverse deck camber, can look like a reverse sheer, depending on the deck structures. Even a subtle concave sheerline, in combination with transverse camber and fore-and-aft dome in the deck, will look like a reverse sheer from a lot of angles, particularly if the boat is flush decked or has small, narrow deck structures.

Whether this is attractive or ugly is a matter of personal taste.

[European Bloke 861]

21 hours ago, Voiled said:

A German designer known for this feature Is Reinke:

https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/31909/REINKE-HYDRA.html

That's fugly

[floater 692]

22 hours ago, slap said:

Sailboatdata.com says the Stone Horse was first built in 1931.   A bit before the Cal 20.  But I wouldn't be surprised if the idea is even older than that.

of course that's true - Shackleton's chippy did same to the Caird: "its solid construction does the carpenter credit, horrid old man that he is. Now he is raising the gunwale of the James Caird some 10in by the extraordinary expedient of fixing its existing gunwale the upper part of the gunwale of the now derelict motor boat. He certainly is a brilliant workman."

they then took her on a famous jaunt in the southern ocean:

 

[SloopJonB 12,547]

3 minutes ago, Voiled said:

The modification to James Caird was done in 1916.

This example build in 1775 is still sailing today:

You can probably find older examples but i doubt there will be ones still actively used.

I wonder how much of that boat actually dates to 1775.

[MFH125 160]

We can go further back than 1775.  Here's VICTORY from 1758.  Those crazy Brits carried their raised deck so far they ended up with two extra levels!

And the Greeks were doing it before that!In all seriousness, some ideas defy finding any beginning.

[Sailbydate 3,604]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:16 AM, Kris Cringle said:

The loneliest man in the world owns a 100' daysailer with a mosh pit in the middle, but he has no friends to take out. 

 

On the other hand, it could be the very definition of, 'splendid isolation'.

[Sailbydate 3,604]

On 11/20/2021 at 6:22 AM, Cruisin Loser said:

The Stone Horse did it before the Cal20 , I think. 

Actually, that is a very sweet looking cutter. Any idea what that cut away topsides quarter treatment is called, CL? 

There were one or two early turn of the century NZL designs a bit similar to that design.

[MFH125 160]

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Actually, that is a very sweet looking cutter. Any idea what that cut away topsides quarter treatment is called, CL? 

There were one or two early turn of the century NZL designs a bit similar to that design.

I don't think there's a specific term for the cutaway quarter rails and they aren't inherent to a raised foredeck.  On SAMARI, another Sam Crocker design, they end just aft of the companionway bulkhead.

SAMARI is a pretty early Crocker design, and in the later boats like the STONE HORSE, GULL, SPARHAWK or MACKINAW he carried the whale strake all the way aft to the transom.  On the STONE HORSE and GULL they form a sort of cockpit coaming.

On MACKINAW they may be more like a bulkwark... it's hard to tell from the photos I've seen

I've done a lot of sailing on a STONE HORSE, and they're great boats. Interestingly, the STONE HORSE was designed with several different rigs and deck layouts, including a traditional shear and cabin trunk.  In my opinion, the raised foredeck version is both the best looking as well as the most practical.  Gives the boat a sort of buoyant look and adds a lot of elbow room down below.

[Matagi 1,443]

You knew this was coming, didn't you. 

Maluka, one of my all time favourite coolest boats.

 

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

METEOR 

[accnick 1,733]

5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Actually, that is a very sweet looking cutter. Any idea what that cut away topsides quarter treatment is called, CL? 

There were one or two early turn of the century NZL designs a bit similar to that design.

The broken  or discontinuous sheeerline is generally referred to as a "raised deck", or in some case "raised foredeck." This is different from a "flush deck", where the sheerline is generally continuous, with relatively few on-deck structures, ie, no deckhouse or a small deckhouse.

These are not absolutes, of course: just general reference terms.

[Steam Flyer 8,371]

14 hours ago, MFH125 said:

We can go further back than 1775.  Here's VICTORY from 1758.  Those crazy Brits carried their raised deck so far they ended up with two extra levels!

And the Greeks were doing it before that!In all seriousness, some ideas defy finding any beginning.

Oh, there is definitely a beginning point for raised topsides. The very first guy who sat on a floating log said to himself, "Self, it would be darn nice if this log kept my butt higher above the water."

- DSK

[Matagi 1,443]

Some Jollenkreuzer-type boats have that. I once looked into the construction rules (very complicated!). I think they have a rule that determines maximum mast length in relation to deck height at the mast position, so you have an interest in raising the deck here. That's why you see a lot of boats with an inverse sheerline, some even with some sort of knuckle.

 

 

[Diarmuid 1,331]

3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Oh, there is definitely a beginning point for raised topsides. The very first guy who sat on a floating log said to himself, "Self, it would be darn nice if this log kept my butt higher above the water."

- DSK

"Grak have coamings. Grak! You fancy fancy boy."

[MFH125 160]

3 hours ago, Matagi said:

Some Jollenkreuzer-type boats have that. I once looked into the construction rules (very complicated!). I think they have a rule that determines maximum mast length in relation to deck height at the mast position, so you have an interest in raising the deck here. That's why you see a lot of boats with an inverse sheerline, some even with some sort of knuckle.

Hey @Matagi, what's imposes the construction rules?  Is Jollenkreuzer a racing class?

[Steam Flyer 8,371]

4 hours ago, Matagi said:

Some Jollenkreuzer-type boats have that. I once looked into the construction rules (very complicated!). I think they have a rule that determines maximum mast length in relation to deck height at the mast position, so you have an interest in raising the deck here. That's why you see a lot of boats with an inverse sheerline, some even with some sort of knuckle.

 

 

Those look like really nice boats. I wonder why we don't have anything like them in the US of A?

- DSK

[SloopJonB 12,547]

9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Actually, that is a very sweet looking cutter. Any idea what that cut away topsides quarter treatment is called, CL?

It's always just been called a "raised foredeck" IME.

If the aft portion wasn't cut down then it would just be a conventional sheer wouldn't it?

 

[lakeneuch 41]

1 hour ago, MFH125 said:

Hey @Matagi, what's imposes the construction rules?  Is Jollenkreuzer a racing class?

Jollenkreuzer means something dinghy-cruiser in German. The idea is that these are bigger unbalasted boats with some "interior". They usually are only balasted with a steel centerboard. Any boat built this way is called Jollenkreuzer in the german speaking regions.

There is however a very active (and very competitive) racing scene around some construction rules (most notably https://www.20er-jollenkreuzer.org/). Mostly in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. 

[Bull City 2,578]

Cross Thread  Alert!!

STONE HORSE (23 or 26) is getting mentioned here and on the Pocket Cruising thread. Prepare to be confused about where you are.

[Sailbydate 3,604]

5 hours ago, Voiled said:

The Regenboog Klasse (Rainbow Class) a design from 1917 is still actively raced in class events:

 

A little reminiscent of the, Uffa Fox Flying 15's maybe?

[Sailbydate 3,604]

6 hours ago, Voiled said:

In Dutch it would be a "bakdekker" which roughly translates as "Forecastle Decked" but not necessarily indicates only the frontmost part of the boat has this treatment. The word is most mostly used for motorboats as a bakdek is more common with those.

Google image search result for: bakdekker zeiljacht.

One of the more famous Dutch examples is the "Takebora" a Baron G.W.W.C. van den Hoëvell design. It was used in an attempt to be the first Dutchman to sail around the world solo. It's skipper, Hans Maurenbrecher perished but the wreck was found in Australia.

 

A ketch rigged version of the boat Maurenbrecher sailed:

Pretty.

[Matagi 1,443]

2 hours ago, MFH125 said:

Hey @Matagi, what's imposes the construction rules?  Is Jollenkreuzer a racing class?

Yes, it's a construction class.

There are classes named 15 (or P), 16 (S), 20 (R), 25 (Blitz) and 30 (B). The number signifies the sail area in square metres, however, only the measured sail area. 

This basically only counts the foretriangle, so these boats all sport relatively small main sails and huuuuge genoas. P-boats and S-boats are sailed with crew of two, R-boats with three, these are also the most active classes. 

P and R-boats are the traditional classes with round hulls, S-boats are more modern and have chined hulls. In fact, P and R-boats could technicalls still have gaff sails, though this is non-existent in new competition boats.

 

Some other fun facts from the R class rules:

_Class surveyor is allowed to drill holes to examine thickness and material (so no forbidden sandwich...).

_aft deck must be closed, drain opening must not be larger than 250 square centimetres (all combined).

_among other very specific measures: floor width next to the centreboard must be not less than 25 centimetres.

_Inside, there are very specific rules regarding storage space and their openings.

_Materials can be: wood (traditional or cold-molded, the most common in new boats), GRP or ... steel.

And don't get me started on how they measure sails...

 

They can be very complex machines, very expensive, too. Here is a look at the cockpit of a 30 sqm. All control lines run hidden underneath. Often, they end in rollers that automatically furl in the excess so the cockpit is always clutter free. Zeese are wery German boats, ja?

All in all this is a very old class that has evolved over roughly 100 years now, so it's no wonder that these two boats are from the same class:

and:

 

 

[Kris Cringle 2,154]

Nothing stops my scrolling fingers faster than an old greyhound of the sea by Sparkman and Stephens. 

"Refanut is a Sparkman & Stephens design (#1104) built at Neglingevarvet outside Stockholm in 1955. She was commissioned as a fast off-shore racer with good upwind capabilities." 

 

 

[bridhb 907]

On 11/21/2021 at 12:51 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Those look like really nice boats. I wonder why we don't have anything like them in the US of A?

- DSK

Europe gets all the cool shit (motorcycles also!)