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17 minutes ago, Whinging Pom said:

Personally I think Rebecca has better looks than Hetarios.  That bow angle is perfection.

 

The gold standard.  There have been so many attempts to copy/best Rebecca since she was launched… she is still the best looking boat around.  

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I've been working on the S Boat painting from the photo I posted a few days ago, and I thought y'all might like to see how it's coming along. It's 12" X 24". I liked the composition of the photo,

Adagio just started the Port Huron to Mackinaw race In her 52'nd year of racing. First large wood-epoxy boat boat built without fasteners. She rates faster than the Santa Cruz 70's.

Does it come with a codpiece?  And I can easily singlehand or cruise with the wife and no crew. I say that a lot when I see an exotic, beautiful car, or a mansion that is just too f'n big

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

The Pearson 40 rig was one I studied in designing the rig proportions--mast tube moments of inertia, panel lengths, spreader lengths, shroud base, etc--for the boat I built.

Bill Shaw was pretty conservative in designing the rig of one of the few IOR racer/cruisers Pearson built. There is an old Pearson 37 (early one-tonner) that comes into NE Harbor every summer.

A lot of people forget that J/Boats also produced a few unspectacular IOR boats, including the J/41.

 

Interesting. What attracted you to that particular rig specifically?

The Pearson had an unconventional look for the time both above and below the water.  The last one I saw in the flesh was in the 80's on the WLIS.  For what it's worth, I think the whale bottom center-boarders generally make good cruising boats, well suited for the East Coast, and a flush deck is a great deck to work on. I've read that the owners tend to like really them.   

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20 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Interesting. What attracted you to that particular rig specifically?

The Pearson had an unconventional look for the time both above and below the water.  The last one I saw in the flesh was in the 80's on the WLIS.  I think the whale bottom center-boarders generally make good cruising boats, well suited for the East Coast, and a flush deck is a great deck to work on. I've read that the owners tend to like really them.   

I had access to the entire US Sailing database, and looked up boats of similar size and with the SA/D, displacement, righting moment, and general rig proportions I was looking for.

I pulled out about a dozen boats the formed my final group for analysis. A number of those rigs were available for inspection in RI--I have never been shy about seeking things out in boatyards--so I was able to measure and examine details. 

After doing a preliminary rig design, I went to a naval architect friend who worked for a mast builder (Metalmast) to check calculations and specify the sections for the mast, boom, and spreaders. I wanted an anodized mast rather than painted for maintenance purposes, and Metalmast was one of the few in the region doing that.

He spec'd all the fittings, including things like a custom Harken outhaul car that wasn't yet a production item.

He also spec'd a deep boom section (actually a mast section), since the boat has a single-point mainsheet connection with about a 3' cantilever aft of the mainsheet connection point. 

(He is well-known as a mast designer, especially for the 12mR class.)

It was sort of a hybrid late-80s racing/cruising rig before the dominance of carbon spars. Meant to be bullet-proof without being overkill.

It worked out very well.

Once of the better choices was a 1.2 J carbon spinnaker pole from Hall Spars. (A guy I raced with owned Hall Rigging, and helped me a lot). That was a surplus pole for a Corel 45 that was sitting on the rack in the Hall shop, never sold. At 20', with a Kevlar-reinforced outer section, it was perfect for my 40-footer, and probably less than half the weight of an equivalent aluminum pole.

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11 hours ago, Keith said:

Ya know, I came along, and steered this discussion back onto its appropriate course.

Well, what do ya know, someone else grabs the wheel, back winds the main, and runs it into the shallows.

Ill try again.

yacht Hetairos

 

 

 

 

Maybe is it just me or the angle of the picture, but if I buy this vessel I would have them align the 'spirt to the sheer line of the deck. I assume that the engineering works best like this, but ...

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2 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Maybe is it just me or the angle of the picture, but if I buy this vessel I would have them align the 'spirt to the sheer line of the deck. I assume that the engineering works best like this, but ...

The way it is done is actually more traditional, particularly on early 20th century English designs.

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8 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I read NatGeo for the pictures in the ads for American cars.  Those cars were so huge and had such big fins etc that for a long time I reckoned Murica was basically the TV show Thunderbirds.

You should visit this country before you die. It might just be a little different than you imagine it is.

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18 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

The problem is imply that rich people hoard resources for themselves while other people live in poverty, or struggle to pay bills.

Standard Marxist nonsense. I never met a person in poverty that employed someone else. Marxism has done so well all over the world.

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7 minutes ago, gn4478 said:

Standard Marxist nonsense. I never met a person in poverty that employed someone else. Marxism has done so well all over the world.

To a limited extent, she is right. Concentration of wealth slows the velocity of money because the wealthy don't have the same marginal propensity to consume and the good they consume often have lower productivity. That said, it doesn't mean you have to go all Marxist to solve that problem.  

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17 minutes ago, gn4478 said:

Standard Marxist nonsense. I never met a person in poverty that employed someone else. Marxism has done so well all over the world.

Yeah, sorry, that train has left the station, we're already beyond that topic by now.

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15 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Near universal masks in Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s in Portland me.  Today Without mandate. Knucklehead factor well below 5%. No transmission here. 6695073D-169B-46B9-9922-AEE616E30691.thumb.jpeg.d1814f4b51ccaf381c7845d8e44b9f48.jpegSo where it is bad, it must be a sloppy carnage fest. 
 

shut up and turn your screen over

No Kris, no,

you already have your 'EU friends' thread to play with. Unless you actively try to kill this thread, which I don't believe for a second, please don't.

We return to our regular broadcast ;) :

Deck.jpg.5ed04b33d893e93acd93f49de997cbe7.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Matagi said:

No Kris, no,

you already have your 'EU friends' thread to play with. Unless you actively try to kill this thread, which I don't believe for a second, please don't.

We return to our regular broadcast ;) :

Deck.jpg.5ed04b33d893e93acd93f49de997cbe7.jpg

That looks pretty slick, what is it?

 

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6 hours ago, accnick said:

Pearson 40?

Pearson 40.  Every now and then, one comes up for sale.  Most with rudder repairs and some upgrades but still pretty much the same boat.  Pretty neat boat, can sneak into 4 foot of water.  Still IOR shaped through and through.  Eliminated the pinch at the back of the cockpit by moving the wheel forward.  As you can see, she can dig a pretty impressive hole.  

Still for all her faults, one of my favorites.  

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10 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

for a long time I reckoned Murica was basically the TV show Thunderbirds.

lol. no-one got America wrong like the Thunderbirds, of course, that was part of their charm. I loved that show. here they are destroying the Empire State Building.  really..

thunderbirds13.jpg 

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5 hours ago, accnick said:

The way it is done is actually more traditional, particularly on early 20th century English designs.

I was thinking carbon fiber - the material allows the horizontal projection. Tall ship bowsprits often seem overly vertical - but again, my assumption is that it was designed like this for structural reasons.

HS78Pfl4hOVoGI6Th_dVBNt5ccU1esL9y8rBmPPc

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1 hour ago, Santanasailor said:

Pearson 40.  Every now and then, one comes up for sale.  Most with rudder repairs and some upgrades but still pretty much the same boat.  Pretty neat boat, can sneak into 4 foot of water.  Still IOR shaped through and through.  Eliminated the pinch at the back of the cockpit by moving the wheel forward.  As you can see, she can dig a pretty impressive hole.  

Still for all her faults, one of my favorites.  

There is (maybe was) one for sale in St. Aug with the preferred balanced rudder modifications at a nice price.  I was afraid to go look at it as it has been one of my favorites since they came out.  The v-drive tranny and thought of stopping all that weight coming into a dock by myself now that I am getting really old sort of tempered my lust though.  It reminded me of some of the Hood "Robins".  Shaw did a custom boat:  1975 Pearson Custom 32 SCREECH sailboat for sale in Wisconsin (sailboatlistings.com)

that looks pretty neat and has a similar underbody as the 40 in a more managable package but unfortunately came across it after purchasing my current boat , which sails decently if a bit deep for shallow waters.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

I was thinking carbon fiber - the material allows the horizontal projection. Tall ship bowsprits often seem overly vertical - but again, my assumption is that it was designed like this for structural reasons.

HS78Pfl4hOVoGI6Th_dVBNt5ccU1esL9y8rBmPPc

I was thinking more along the lines of the pilot cutters: 

image.png.a856cc6f2e2e77857afb6cea54201423.png

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6 hours ago, gn4478 said:

Standard Marxist nonsense. I never met a person in poverty that employed someone else. Marxism has done so well all over the world.

That's cos if they employed someone else, they'd be making money off the profits from the other person's labour.  Not marxism, just business 101.

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7 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

You should visit this country before you die. It might just be a little different than you imagine it is.

I did visit the USA when I drove around the Great Lakes many years ago.  I spent about a week in Wisconsin and northern Michigan.  Very pretty countryside.  No Thunderbirds in sight, but lot of flags, pickups, guns, fishing rods, dirt roads and wooden houses.

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Ahhh, 2 percent of the country. You should try again and see how much love there is in the other 48 states. I was in Michigan in October dropping g off a boat. It is like another country compared to where I live. The US is like that

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

That's cos if they employed someone else, they'd be making money off the profits from the other person's labour.  Not marxism, just business 101.

I remember when I used to work for employers. I was paid for the work I did, not the knowledge I had acquired up to that point. Now I work for myself and use the knowledge I have to eek out an existence in a niche market. I employ no one and provide little in the way of benefit to anyone other than my clients or my daughters. That isn’t good for the overall economy, but it pays my bills. On the other hand, those who are in a position to hire employees to fulfill their needs(production) are helping others with the opportunity to gain employment for monetary gain. What they choose to do with that money(pay down debt, buy needless items, drugs, etc.) is up to them. Don’t blame the rich for not being poor, it never works. 
 

Cool boat owned by a poor guy who is rich by most world standards. 

 

5990EDBE-4501-487A-A34A-8D0EC513FEE3.jpeg

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https://youtube.com/shorts/oSYZv5y5RyE?feature=share

This is a TikTok video about American kids by a Hispanic man. Explains the American Dream in 30 seconds. Worth watching…

And yep, got the bug after seeing my daughter last week. She had it and gave it to me before she showed symptoms. Second time for me in 2 years. Not as bad this time around!

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8 hours ago, Elegua said:

To a limited extent, she is right. Concentration of wealth slows the velocity of money because the wealthy don't have the same marginal propensity to consume and the good they consume often have lower productivity. That said, it doesn't mean you have to go all Marxist to solve that problem. 

I don't know much about Professor Richard Wolff except that he appears to mostly agree with Robert R_e_i_c_h about flaws in the "Greed Is Good" model of capitalism but doesn't agree that R_e_i_c_h's proposed solutions go far enough ("Saving Capitalism").  I'm a fan of Robert R_e_i_c_h and believe as he does that much can be done to fix the glaring holes in the current system.  Apparently Wolff favors something more extreme - I don't know what, I'm not a Marxist.

His academic credentials are impeccable though, and this recent video describes the flaws pretty well.

Quote

Richard David Wolff (born April 1, 1942) is an American Marxian economist, known for his work on economic methodology and class analysis. He is Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, and currently a Visiting Professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School in New York. Wolff has also taught economics at Yale University, City University of New York, University of Utah, University of Paris I (Sorbonne), and The Brecht Forum in New York City.

In addition to his native English, Wolff is fluent in French and German.
 -- Wikipedia

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/oSYZv5y5RyE?feature=share

This is a TikTok video about American kids by a Hispanic man. Explains the American Dream in 30 seconds. Worth watching…

And yep, got the bug after seeing my daughter last week. She had it and gave it to me before she showed symptoms. Second time for me in 2 years. Not as bad this time around!

That sucks.  Sharing is caring, most times. Man, Catalinas are always so huge inside. 

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Can’t get out to get strings for the guitar…it plays flawlessly right now

@TwoLegged

Elon Musk reported that he’s going to pay $11 billion in taxes this year. That, coupled with Proasailor being the cling on whore that he is:lol:, make the socialism argument a little moot on the Cruising Anarchy thread.  Love you though! 

Now back to cool boats before we are further chastised by the group! 

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3 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

I don't know much about Professor Richard Wolff except that he appears to mostly agree with Robert R_e_i_c_h about flaws in the "Greed Is Good" model of capitalism but doesn't agree that R_e_i_c_h's proposed solutions go far enough ("Saving Capitalism").  I'm a fan of Robert R_e_i_c_h and believe as he does that much can be done to fix the glaring holes in the current system.  Apparently Wolff favors something more extreme - I don't know what, I'm not a Marxist.

His academic credentials are impeccable though, and this recent video describes the flaws pretty well.

 

 

Anyone who still thinks Marxism can work is (pick one or more) a fool, ignorant of history, a dreamer or an academic.

How much fucking failure would it take to convince them of their folly?

Just as democracy is the best available system of government, regulated capitalism is the best available economic system.

The historical evidence is so overwhelming that I can't understand how anyone with even a modest IQ can fail to comprehend it.

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On 12/20/2021 at 8:12 AM, SloopJonB said:

horsepower - if some is good, more is better and too much is just right.

and the problem is where ?????????????

 

you can NEVER had too many ponies :)

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11 hours ago, Bull City said:

The argument is worth having, especially with this group, and it can be respectful and not personal, but this thread is not the place for it.

All it took to set off this firestorm was a tongue-in-cheek remark by @Diarmuid about a BIG boat driven by a privileged man:

By coincidence, I had just read that morning the ProPublica article, cross-posted at Salon.

The Great Inheritors: How three families shielded their fortunes from taxes for generations
Some of the wealthiest Americans claimed their fortunes would never last through the generations. They were wrong
https://www.salon.com/2021/12/18/the-great-inheritors-how-three-families-shielded-their-fortunes-from-for-generations_partner/

Apparently touched a nerve as the personal insults immediately started to fly!  Fully confirming the Scrooge-like nature of the filthy rich.  (though I doubt anyone here can afford that massive yacht)

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Probably has a similar W/L (and less beam) than a modern 40'

If we spoke of length in terms of W/L and not LOA there would be far less difference between old & new boats.

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13 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Beautiful boat, and deceptively large. Also blessed with the interior space of a modern 40-footer.

0x0_339_1876958365cb4af6d23e7e.JPG

Not only that, there is a lot of water penetration into the failed glue joints in the deck structures. You can see a lot of black discoloration of the mahogany at those joints. You can't really fix that type of damage.

No thanks, as pretty as it is. I've paid my dues in wooden boat ownership, and I was a lot younger then.

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42 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

 

Interesting vent arrangement. Somebody cooks on board that boat. Presume it connects to a cowl. About the only way it WILL work is connected to a down wind facing cowl. But it won't pull much. A better idea would be a fan in the port. 

 

 

image.thumb.png.f2f1bfbbec8c173e8164c7fb91ca699b.png

We have a better galley than that in our 34' powerboat. We had a much better galley than that in our 40' sailboat. We had powered exhaust vents in both. No schedule 40 PVC in sight anywhere.

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18 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

And yep, got the bug after seeing my daughter last week. She had it and gave it to me before she showed symptoms. Second time for me in 2 years. Not as bad this time around!

Hope you have a speedy recovery, S4B. You'll be bullet proof when you get through this! ;-)

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4 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

All it took to set off this firestorm was a tongue-in-cheek remark by @Diarmuid about a BIG boat driven by a privileged man..

understandable, will it help if there is no one aboard?

yacht-designer-luca-bassani-Wally-43m-Es

 

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2 hours ago, accnick said:

Not only that, there is a lot of water penetration into the failed glue joints in the deck structures. You can see a lot of black discoloration of the mahogany at those joints. You can't really fix that type of damage.

No thanks, as pretty as it is. I've paid my dues in wooden boat ownership, and I was a lot younger then.

Well, it is "Cool Boats to admire" not own. :D

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3 hours ago, Bull City said:

Well, it is "Cool Boats to admire" not own. :D

Good Point

Here’s one borrowed from Facebook/Woodenboat page

(quoting)  KID, Ex THE KID, Last survivor of the Runabout Class.  Photo by Tyler Fields

 

7CB1A43F-8BA5-4FA3-8DD4-D57267065D7C.jpeg

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On 12/21/2021 at 12:13 PM, Elegua said:

To a limited extent, she is right. Concentration of wealth slows the velocity of money because the wealthy don't have the same marginal propensity to consume and the good they consume often have lower productivity. That said, it doesn't mean you have to go all Marxist to solve that problem.  

Umm no. If the capital is not spent on consumption, it is available for investment which increases the productivity of the economy, creates jobs and raises tax collections.  Do you think if it is not consumed it just sits there under a mattress? That is not how yo get rich and stay rich.

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21 minutes ago, sail2win said:

Umm no. If the capital is not spent on consumption, it is available for investment which increases the productivity of the economy, creates jobs and raises tax collections.  Do you think if it is not consumed it just sits there under a mattress? That is not how yo get rich and stay rich.

Umm, no to your no.  If what you said were true, the velocity of money would increase with increasing income inequality when the reverse is true. 

National economics is not like personal economics. As the borrower of last resort, the US economy is not constrained by scarcity of capital. It is constrained by demand.  That said, if you keep lowering the demand over time by destroying the consumptive capacity of the middle and lower classes, you just might lose the borrower of last resort position.   

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12 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Tell that to the bloke who prices the mooring, deck gear, rigging, and sails 

I had an old Columbia 43, a friend has a recent Hunter 38 - by most measures but LOA they are nearly identical in size.

 

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4 hours ago, sail2win said:

Umm no. If the capital is not spent on consumption, it is available for investment which increases the productivity of the economy, creates jobs and raises tax collections.  Do you think if it is not consumed it just sits there under a mattress? That is not how yo get rich and stay rich.

Yeah, the $75,000,000.00 spent at auction for a Ferrari 250 GTO trickles down through the economy creating jobs as it goes.

Wealth concentration, like greed, is good.

:rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, sail2win said:

Umm no. If the capital is not spent on consumption, it is available for investment which increases the productivity of the economy, creates jobs and raises tax collections.  Do you think if it is not consumed it just sits there under a mattress? That is not how yo get rich and stay rich.

Unfortunately, the rich invest a significant proportion of their wealth in non-productive assets, such as mansions and luxury cars and private aircraft, and ... ummm .... yachts.

If that money was invested instead in productive assets or infrastructure or education or training, or in housing for the people who struggle to afford a roof, it would both create a lot more jobs directly and build a lot more productive capacity.

'Murica has a huge and growing problem of infrastructure under-investment, because the share of rich people's income which was paid as taxes in the 1960s and 1960s has been given away in tax cuts.

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Unfortunately, the rich invest a significant proportion of their wealth in non-productive assets, such as mansions and luxury cars and private aircraft, and ... ummm .... yachts.

Plus, the mega rich have undue influence in politics (esp. since the Citizens United decision in 2010) and shaping public opinion.  This form of "investment" can be very lucrative for themselves, their families and friends.  When coupled with the structural defects of the U.S. constitution (two senators per state and the electoral college), it's too easy for a small, super-rich minority to loot the "commonwealth" and prevail over the majority.

Quote

Dec 21, 2021 - From the U.S. Senate to the Electoral College, some U.S. institutions don't conform to the ideals of democracy. Steven Levitsky, Harvard University professor of government and the co-author of “How Democracies Die,” joins Lawrence O'Donnell to discuss.

 

 

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4 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Unfortunately, the rich invest a significant proportion of their wealth in non-productive assets, such as mansions and luxury cars and private aircraft, and ... ummm .... yachts.

If that money was invested instead in productive assets or infrastructure or education or training, or in housing for the people who struggle to afford a roof, it would both create a lot more jobs directly and build a lot more productive capacity.

'Murica has a huge and growing problem of infrastructure under-investment, because the share of rich people's income which was paid as taxes in the 1960s and 1960s has been given away in tax cuts.

     I come to this forum, and this thread for expertise on sailing, not economics. There are threads in this forum devoted to politics which is where this discussion belongs, although I would go elsewhere for expertise on politics and economics. (Much as I go elsewhere for expertise on power boats)

    It is also incorrect to refer to a tax cut as a give away because a tax cut takes less from someone, but does not give them any thing. If a mugger stole $100 from you, and let you keep $20, he hasn’t just given you $20, he has stolen $80. 

     Depending on which part of the 60s you are referring to, it may be correct that the share of top earner’s income may have been taxed more heavily, but it is also true that they are paying a much greater share of federal taxes. In 1979, the top 20% paid about 56% of all federal taxes, they now pay about 70%. 

    America also spends more on public education than most other industrialized countries with a less good result due to wasteful spending on bureaucracy and the teacher’s unions wasteful wish list. 

    It makes no difference from an investment point of view wether construction is devoted to mansions or Levittown.  

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    Correcting inaccuracies is not a rant. 

     I knew it didn’t make any more sense to discuss politics on a sailing forum than it would to discuss sailing on the Foreign Affairs website  

 

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23 minutes ago, Maldwin said:

     I knew it didn’t make any more sense to discuss politics on a sailing forum than it would to discuss sailing on the Foreign Affairs website  

 

Maybe we should try that and see how they react over there.

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 I concede the mugger example was political, but no more than calling a reduced taking a gift. 

 I did not voice support for either political party or mention border policy. 

 I will take you ad hominem attacks as evidence that your factual arguments are weak 

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