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We used a bandsaw with 5’ circumference wheels and around a 27’ saw blade at the Workshop on the Water. We could halve some pretty substantial pieces of timber in no time.

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I've been working on the S Boat painting from the photo I posted a few days ago, and I thought y'all might like to see how it's coming along. It's 12" X 24". I liked the composition of the photo,

Adagio just started the Port Huron to Mackinaw race In her 52'nd year of racing. First large wood-epoxy boat boat built without fasteners. She rates faster than the Santa Cruz 70's.

Does it come with a codpiece?  And I can easily singlehand or cruise with the wife and no crew. I say that a lot when I see an exotic, beautiful car, or a mansion that is just too f'n big

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40 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

We used a bandsaw with 5’ circumference wheels and around a 27’ saw blade at the Workshop on the Water. We could halve some pretty substantial pieces of timber in no time.

Most small-wheel bandsaws don't have the vertical throat clearance to re-saw wide stock, which is what I was doing.

That being said, you figure out how to do the job with the tools you have. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Any cat can be skinned! I had to use a smaller bandsaw to reduce some stock for  new Ensign coamings myself. I should have thought to call the local boat shop and ask if I could use theirs. Got the job done…

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3 hours ago, accnick said:

We used to say that yachtbuilding was largely the process of turning endangered, expensive tropical hardwoods into large piles of worthless sawdust.

Worthless and probably toxic sawdust.;)

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8 minutes ago, accnick said:

Definitely toxic in my case. I break out in a rash from it, even if I wear a respirator.

If termites and mildews won't eat it, there's probably a good reason!

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We had massive amounts of sawdust from mahogany and teak. Couldn’t sell it or use it as hamster bedding due to epoxy in the laminated pieces we planed, sawed or chiseled. 

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

We had massive amounts of sawdust from mahogany and teak. Couldn’t sell it or use it as hamster bedding due to epoxy in the laminated pieces we planed, sawed or chiseled. 

The teak sawdust is probably too much of an irritant for any practical use in any case.

I used to put out a big bag weighing at least 20 pounds every week or so.  That's almost a half cubic foot of sawdust, maybe five board feet. At about $15 per bf, I was throwing away about $75 worth of FEQ teak, reduced to sawdust, in each of those bags.

It doesn't bear thinking about.

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20 minutes ago, accnick said:

The teak sawdust is probably too much of an irritant for any practical use in any case.

I used to put out a big bag weighing at least 20 pounds every week or so.  That's almost a half cubic foot of sawdust, maybe five board feet. At about $15 per bf, I was throwing away about $75 worth of FEQ teak, reduced to sawdust, in each of those bags.

It doesn't bear thinking about.

Yeah, be careful about which shavings you use for animal bedding. The dust can be deadly, oils can irritate skin, and many animals eat some portion of their bedding too. I used to segregate & give away my planer shavings from poplar, maple, cherry, etc. But any tropical is bad news, and walnut will flat-out kill a horse if it eats some.

 

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2 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Yeah, be careful about which shavings you use for animal bedding. The dust can be deadly, oils can irritate skin, and many animals eat some portion of their bedding too. I used to segregate & give away my planer shavings from poplar, maple, cherry, etc. But any tropical is bad news, and walnut will flat-out kill a horse if it eats some.

 

That's why we use aspen shavings for our boa's bedding.

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7 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Yeah, be careful about which shavings you use for animal bedding. The dust can be deadly, oils can irritate skin, and many animals eat some portion of their bedding too. I used to segregate & give away my planer shavings from poplar, maple, cherry, etc. But any tropical is bad news, and walnut will flat-out kill a horse if it eats some.

 

Jatoba dust causes my throat to swell up, although I can lick a piece of it and nothing happens. 

I'll know exactly where every wenge fibre is imbedded in my hands, no matter how small it is or the state of my calluses, while a sliver of say cherry could be there for days. 

Hadn't heard about walnut and horses.  It's not my favourite dust either.   

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3 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Jatoba dust causes my throat to swell up, although I can lick a piece of it and nothing happens. 

I'll know exactly where every wenge fibre is imbedded in my hands, no matter how small it is or the state of my calluses, while a sliver of say cherry could be there for days. 

Hadn't heard about walnut and horses.  It's not my favourite dust either.   

why do you lick wood?

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23 minutes ago, chester said:

why do you lick wood?

That's a loaded question.  

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The Rona was built for Alexander Turnbull. After he sold her he had my boat built which is the next generation along from her. I'm sure she's not past it but will take some serious money to restore. I met John Palmer about 20 years ago after he had done the resto on Rona.

He had a more purists view on restoration. His philosophy was to replace as little as possible.

He did a magnificent job, but even 20 years ago the decks leaked and she took on water from below.

She's definately worth spending the money but unfortunately there are quite a few around like that.

Aorere, a similar boat by the same designer would be well worth someone getting hold of.

Forget about taking any of them overseas as they are protected by government legislation and cannot leave NZ

Aorere - Classic Yacht InfoAorere-in-1892-800x460.png

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1 hour ago, iorangi said:

Forget about taking any of them overseas as they are protected by government legislation and cannot leave NZ

Wait is this actually a thing? I could see it existing to preserve the heritage, kind of like with a heritage house, but with a boat that doesn't make much sense. Its very purpose is to move about, and being tied to NZ waters would be very limiting.

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3 hours ago, Hell-Bent said:

Wait is this actually a thing? I could see it existing to preserve the heritage, kind of like with a heritage house, but with a boat that doesn't make much sense. Its very purpose is to move about, and being tied to NZ waters would be very limiting.

It seems self-defeating if no one in NZ is willing to step up and save the boat.

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14 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Jatoba dust causes my throat to swell up, although I can lick a piece of it and nothing happens. 

I'll know exactly where every wenge fibre is imbedded in my hands, no matter how small it is or the state of my calluses, while a sliver of say cherry could be there for days. 

Hadn't heard about walnut and horses.  It's not my favourite dust either.   

Walnut splinters get very angry after 24 hours, if not removed. Most of walnut's poison is in the roots, tho the wood and bark have some. There are stories of good ol' boys in southeast furniture plants 'fishing' by sinking sacks of walnut shavings in a small pond, then scooping up stunned catfish when they float to the top. May or may not be true.

Many tropical woods are primarily toxic in their bark and cambium layer. I've done quite a lot of work in chechen, and like it, and only occasionally react to the dust or oils -- but its bark is terrible (aka black poisonwood). Pretty stuff, tho.

2044964044_usb278.jpg.ac9460c73e0b7258d400060b238233a5.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Walnut splinters get very angry after 24 hours, if not removed. Most of walnut's poison is in the roots, tho the wood and bark have some. There are stories of good ol' boys in southeast furniture plants 'fishing' by sinking sacks of walnut shavings in a small pond, then scooping up stunned catfish when they float to the top. May or may not be true.

Many tropical woods are primarily toxic in their bark and cambium layer. I've done quite a lot of work in chechen, and like it, and only occasionally react to the dust or oils -- but its bark is terrible (aka black poisonwood). Pretty stuff, tho.

2044964044_usb278.jpg.ac9460c73e0b7258d400060b238233a5.jpg

We're in the process of designing the kitchen in our new house.  I am NOT showing this picture to my wife.  Good golly, that wood is beautiful.  I can only imagine the cost; I am quite sure it's not in the budget.

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On 1/29/2022 at 12:48 PM, accnick said:

It's really hard to tell. All the wood on deck is badly mildewed, but if it is teak, it should be salvageable with a lot of elbow grease. There is no obvious damage,, just neglect, which is never benign with a vintage boat.

The major restoration was about 15 years ago, as I recall.

Boats like this can deteriorate quickly when neglected.

It only takes one bad owner to kill a wooden boat. Fiberglass perhaps more than one. 

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58 minutes ago, Elegua said:

It only takes one bad owner to kill a wooden boat. Fiberglass perhaps more than one. 

Yep.

The boat I built (fiberglass hull, wood everything else) was in perfect shape in 2014 when they guy I sold it to in 2003 had to sell it due to declining health.

The people he sold it to sailed it to the Caribbean and effectively walked away from it for four years before sailing it back to the US a couple of years ago.

I was stunned when I saw the boat early last summer, shortly after it sold to a guy who is doing a good job of bringing it back. I was sick and angry when I saw how neglected the boat was. It would have been so much easier to maintain it properly in the first place.

My wooden boats were a similar story. All the effort we put into restoring them was wasted thanks to no more than one bad owner in each case.

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4 minutes ago, accnick said:

Yep.

The boat I built (fiberglass hull, wood everything else) was in perfect shape in 2014 when they guy I sold it to in 2003 had to sell it due to declining health.

The people he sold it to sailed it to the Caribbean and effectively walked away from it for four years before sailing it back to the US a couple of years ago.

I was stunned when I saw the boat early last summer, shortly after it sold to a guy who is doing a good job of bringing it back. I was sick and angry when I saw how neglected the boat was. It would have been so much easier to maintain it properly in the first place.

My wooden boats were a similar story. All the effort we put into restoring them was wasted thanks to no more than one bad owner in each case.

I've put waaay too many brain cells and dollars into my current ride. No one will want it once I am done.  It's just too far out of style. 

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13 minutes ago, accnick said:

Yep.

The boat I built (fiberglass hull, wood everything else) was in perfect shape in 2014 when they guy I sold it to in 2003 had to sell it due to declining health.

The people he sold it to sailed it to the Caribbean and effectively walked away from it for four years before sailing it back to the US a couple of years ago.

I was stunned when I saw the boat early last summer, shortly after it sold to a guy who is doing a good job of bringing it back. I was sick and angry when I saw how neglected the boat was. It would have been so much easier to maintain it properly in the first place.

My wooden boats were a similar story. All the effort we put into restoring them was wasted thanks to no more than one bad owner in each case.

When our son was a nationally ranked waterskier, in high school, we had an older MasterCraft as his practice boat.  As he was rising in the ranks and some thought he might be the real thing, we decided we certainly needed to have him in the latest and sold our older boat and purchased brand new.  We we sold our boat, a scratch in the gel coat could barely be found despite its age.  I saw the boat a year later.  There was not a place on the hull where you could place your hand and NOT touch multiple scratches/gouges.  

Oh, our son abandoned waterskiing, graduated in engineering but then went on to a career in the Air Force as a navigator.  

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16 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I've put waaay too many brain cells and dollars into my current ride. No one will want it once I am done.  It's just too far out of style. 

same here

 

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56 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I've put waaay too many brain cells and dollars into my current ride. No one will want it once I am done.  It's just too far out of style. 

That's a problem for a lot of us who obsess about our boats.

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4 hours ago, accnick said:

It seems self-defeating if no one in NZ is willing to step up and save the boat.

NZ has far fewer citizens available per boat than the US, Europe and the Med, etc for restorations. 

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I was able to clear lots full of poison wood trees in Key West since I had an immunity to them. Most people would touch a leaf and have a bad reaction. Probably a different variety…

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Most of the top tier of NZ classics are now well looked after. As time moves on  the demand will move into the second tier and so on. The legislation is all encompassing to the extent that Anything made in NZ that is over 60 years old needs a permit to be permanently exported from here. It was originally envisaged to protect Maori tohunga (precious artefacts) but has the ability to become all encompassing. Most of the 2nd tier classics here are safely stored in sheds etc, waiting for someone with too much money !

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8 hours ago, Hukilau said:

We're in the process of designing the kitchen in our new house.  I am NOT showing this picture to my wife.  Good golly, that wood is beautiful.  I can only imagine the cost; I am quite sure it's not in the budget.

Wasn't outrageous -- I think we paid around $8/bdft. That was back when it was a 'lesser-known species,' tho. Got popular for flooring, turning, and guitars. The real downside is you can't buy sheet goods in it -- unless you want to pay $300/panel for custom layup (which may be worth doing -- a typical kitchen only uses 2-5 sheets premium species for show panels.) Figure 275 bdft solid lumber (primary species) for a typical kitchen: even a premium wood is probably only $1000 more than white oak. I tell my clients, "Choose a wood you love. The price difference vanishes in the noise of a full remodel." ($16k for cabinets, $10k for countertops, $15k for appliances....)

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3 hours ago, iorangi said:

Most of the top tier of NZ classics are now well looked after. As time moves on  the demand will move into the second tier and so on. The legislation is all encompassing to the extent that Anything made in NZ that is over 60 years old needs a permit to be permanently exported from here. It was originally envisaged to protect Maori tohunga (precious artefacts) but has the ability to become all encompassing. Most of the 2nd tier classics here are safely stored in sheds etc, waiting for someone with too much money !

So once you reach age 60 you can't leave NZ?

So much for grandma visiting the kids.

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36 minutes ago, iorangi said:

Have to be a Taonga (priceless artefact). Most of us Kiwi's are useless apparently. "No problem sir you can go. Let me show you the door "!

Fascinating change in preservation techniques for these antique precious vessels where as John Palmer chose the purists road for the original restoration of the Rona compared to say the recent restoration of the Ida with its splined glass sheathed hull and two pack epoxy finish.

I will always remember the shots of the Rona and John in the warehouse but can’t find them now.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/1/2022 at 8:48 PM, iorangi said:

The Rona was built for Alexander Turnbull. After he sold her he had my boat built which is the next generation along from her. I'm sure she's not past it but will take some serious money to restore. I met John Palmer about 20 years ago after he had done the resto on Rona.

He had a more purists view on restoration. His philosophy was to replace as little as possible.

He did a magnificent job, but even 20 years ago the decks leaked and she took on water from below.

She's definately worth spending the money but unfortunately there are quite a few around like that.

Aorere, a similar boat by the same designer would be well worth someone getting hold of.

Forget about taking any of them overseas as they are protected by government legislation and cannot leave NZ

Aorere - Classic Yacht InfoAorere-in-1892-800x460.png

Any further info on Aorere?

This shows sail number 31.

DC96B7B1-BA5D-4A6D-BC0F-A8414EC2BCB5.thumb.jpeg.7b37b32c317b55dbe852cab0469f4aba.jpegCEEDF176-A85F-484A-BF9B-EA4E6F0C7014.jpeg.cc5d62766244b3404e6be7765177d308.jpeg

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11 hours ago, iorangi said:

... The legislation is all encompassing to the extent that Anything made in NZ that is over 60 years old needs a permit to be permanently exported from here. It was originally envisaged to protect Maori tohunga (precious artefacts)...

could it be to keep all the atrocious concrete sins, Hartleys, we have seen  ...from besmirching NZ's nautical prowess overseas?

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Not a sailboat but an interesting consideration.  The Big Tournament Fishing folks are coming to our lake next week.  Folks are out practicing.  Practicing in aircraft carrier sized Bass Boats will soon be plying our waters, such as the one spotted in our cove this afternoon.  For what this fellow has invested, four chartplotters/fishfinders/sonars one with a screen almost as large as the flatscreen TV in our bedroom and two anchors (which several years ago were running 700 bucks apiece!) and of course the jack plate for the 250hp outboard, what this fellow has floating would easily purchase a nice 35 used 35 footer with sails 

 

46313CFB-1406-4C91-AEBF-F455DA51EE13.jpeg

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6 hours ago, eliboat said:

I'd like that a lot more with less clipper bow and more sprit.

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This beautiful motorsailer, RAIN BEAR, was featured in a recent WoodenBoat. As I recall, she was built by a couple over a 20-year period and launched in August 2020. She must have been a labor of love. Now she is for sale. It seems very sad to me. I hope it isn't illness.

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=d56AJBoWALs

The interior is beautiful. Don't miss it.

image.png.c2e5e675bf2b40d1d6496930ef765762.png

850561070_rainbear.thumb.png.1a00d239e2142de338cef851260962ae.png

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There's a bit of debate about some of the restoration techniques here. As long as nothing has been done to the boat that fundamentally alters it I don't mind too much. It's important to keep them alive until the right person comes along.

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On 1/16/2022 at 6:54 AM, SloopJonB said:

I think by now they should have been able to correct the trim of that thing. :ph34r:

The only way to correct its (notice I did not say, 'her') trim would be to scuttle it. 

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I was wondering why I hadn’t gone back to the RAIN BEAR ad and done some more dreaming; she’s been “reduced to only $499,000 US!”  Now, I know the boat is a work of art, but she’s 37’ long and quite idiosyncratic.  $299,000 and I’d be tempted….

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On 2/1/2022 at 8:53 AM, Elegua said:

I've put waaay too many brain cells and dollars into my current ride. No one will want it once I am done.  It's just too far out of style. 

Agreed.  I'll be buried in/on this boat.  

They sure are pretty boats though! 

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24 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Dang! Those guys have balls, all right. Either that, or it's not their boat.....

- DSK

It might be photoshop but it still gives you that heart in your throat feeling that can happen if you do any sailing in close quarters. 

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57 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

It might be photoshop but it still gives you that heart in your throat feeling that can happen if you do any sailing in close quarters. 

Especially in a boat that's as handy in close quarters as one of those bluff-ended, tiny-ruddered, old fashioned luggers aren't.

I love that photo, the running rigging, especially the topsails, is clear and worth study. Thanks!

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

It might be photoshop

Possibly ;)  The giveaway would be the ghost sail to windward, which would have made a more convincing image had they cropped it out (not to say it isn’t a fun image, and the last time I used Photoshop (wayyyyyyy back when) that would have been a pta to do.  Technology probably has progressed).   Still and all, the Thames barges had big topsails to get clear (er) air above buildings on the riverbanks, so was this also the same sort of design evolution?

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1 hour ago, Presuming Ed said:

A local one design from Fowey in Cornwall. 18’ LOA, 22’ sparred length. 

 

Very handsome boats, and a lovely video. All of you sailors should watch it.

Thanks, Ed.

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4 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

A local one design from Fowey in Cornwall. 18’ LOA, 22’ sparred length.

One design racing is always cool, but racing gorgeous, traditional one designs in such numbers takes it to a whole other level!

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21 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Hero or zero, take the chance. 

1573926500_ScreenShot2022-02-02at2_39_14PM.thumb.png.22c2295d53ffe327ccaa7bfb7ac11fe2.png

What an amazing picture and subject, thanks for sharing! Do you have more information on the boat or source of the image?

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1 hour ago, Voiled said:

What an amazing picture and subject, thanks for sharing! Do you have more information on the boat or source of the image?

It was a facebook group and I tried as I became curious for more background, but could not find out where I got it. 

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

It is a Bisquine, in Northern Brittany or Normandie for sure.

La+Granvillaise+2002+BR+b+copie.jpg

Thanks, it seems to be "La Granvillaise", the same boat that Kris and You posted. It's a bit confusing as in your post the top sails are missing and in Kris's picture it has no sail number. But it's the Bisquine #G90.

https://www.lagranvillaise.org/

https://fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/La_Granvillaise?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Here she can be seen with the top-sail-sprits (?) installed and it's very clear the transom is the same:

 

1280px-Brest_2012-Parade_au_ras_de_l'eau

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Glenn L. Sweatman. The first of the ‘New” Oyster schooners.  Had the privilege of helming her in 1992.  She has survived several hurricanes.  Her sails are now brazen with advertising which to me cheapens her value and legacy, but one has to do what one has to do to make the money to stay afloat.  

 

DC711232-6EEE-4C61-B5B3-9EA5634C7AD2.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Voiled said:

Thanks, it seems to be "La Granvillaise", the same boat that Kris and You posted. It's a bit confusing as in your post the top sails are missing and in Kris's picture it has no sail number. But it's the Bisquine #G90.

https://www.lagranvillaise.org/

https://fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/La_Granvillaise?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Here she can be seen with the top-sail-sprits (?) installed and it's very clear the transom is the same:

 

1280px-Brest_2012-Parade_au_ras_de_l'eau

I'll be in the area this summer, I will keep a look.

If I remember correctly, there are two famos boats, la Grainvillaise and la Cancalaise, one from Normandy, the other from Brittany. That's probably as fierce a local rivalry as you can find and they were always battling it out while fishing.

 

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20 minutes ago, Matagi said:

If I remember correctly, there are two famos boats, la Grainvillaise and la Cancalaise, one from Normandy, the other from Brittany. That's probably as fierce a local rivalry as you can find and they were always battling it out while fishing.

In their rivalry they even went for the black v/s white theme, La Cancalaise:

Brest_2016_-_20160715-044_La_Cancalaise.

https://www.lacancalaise.org/

https://fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/La_Cancalaise?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

La Granvillaise:

image.jpg

 

 

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8 hours ago, Voiled said:

Thanks, it seems to be "La Granvillaise", the same boat that Kris and You posted. It's a bit confusing as in your post the top sails are missing and in Kris's picture it has no sail number. But it's the Bisquine #G90.

https://www.lagranvillaise.org/

https://fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/La_Granvillaise?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Here she can be seen with the top-sail-sprits (?) installed and it's very clear the transom is the same:

 

1280px-Brest_2012-Parade_au_ras_de_l'eau

Digging around on one of those links I found the history page: http://www.lagranvillaise.org/histoire-des-bisquines/ (it translates enough ok to english with google translate for those who don't speak French).

And it's a fascinating read! Here's an excerpt:

 

"The impressive measurements of a turn-of-the-century bisquine may remind you of something: a little over 18 meters of hull, 340 square meters of canvas...

But yes, these are the same figures as a current Open 60 footer! Damn, here is a “traditional” boat that promises, at least on paper! And who keeps his promises on the water. Because we still have to add to it, in front, an endless
bowsprit of 9 meters and, behind, a tail-of-malet of 4 meters! Above deck, excess is also a must: the three masts carry up to three tiers of sails.

No doubt, the bisquine is and will remain as the most beautiful, the most canvas, the most powerful working sailboat on our coasts."

 

They go on to speak of the rivalry - common amongst such fishing and trading boats throughout the world.

Including the ignoring of starboard rules, collisions, insults, brandishing of oars, even axes, and fights - sounds typical of the sailors of NW France... :D and in this case between the Bretons of Cancale and the Normans of Granville (hence the names and colours of the two boats).

 

Brilliant.

 

NB: sailing and fishing trips are available for those who might be visiting the area. The boat is maintained by a non profit organisation that also takes school children and other such groups aboard for the experience.

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I think Jeff Bezos' new yacht probably belongs here, but some may vote for inclusion in the Uglyboat Admiration Society on the basis of ostentation...

This-is-Jeff-Bezos-yacht-the-largest-in-

Apparently Jeff or his shipyard has pissed off the locals in Rotterdam, as a local, iconic lift bridge will require disassembly to permit the behemoth to sail out to sea - something about the bridge not accommodating the required 40 metre air gap:

Jeff-Bezos-Yacht-bridge-.jpg

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1 hour ago, Maldwin said:

That looks more like EOS than the new Bezos yacht. 

You may be right. That's what Google-fu came up with for a picture with the masts. Here is a yard picture from the news article (maybe no more reliable...) - similar clipper bow and nice lines but different superstructure...

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/02/jeff-bezos-yacht-03.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1024

 

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