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I've been working on the S Boat painting from the photo I posted a few days ago, and I thought y'all might like to see how it's coming along. It's 12" X 24". I liked the composition of the photo,

10 minutes of boat building magic. If this has been posted before, I apologize.  

My old Schooner "Europe". The first yacht registered under the brand new European Union flag. Baptised  by Princess Grace Kelly of Monaco. We acquired the boat after she went around the world. Thank y

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Since powerboats are accepted in this thread, I'll voice admiration for the small kaiki fishing boats seen in harbors throughout Greece. They evolved from lateen-rigged sailing craft, but now are almost universally powered by small single-cylinder diesels. "Thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka ..."

 

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They are very cool and distinctive boats.

 

They are Caiques by the way "Keye ee kee - how's that for a little arrant pedantry?

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"That's the Rosie Parks - built side by side in Wingate w/the Lady Katie and the Martha Lewis - all of whom are still floating. "

 

Noticed that Rosie Parks was just relaunched after a refit on cbmm.org.

 

"Those Skipjacks look like they would make a VERY cool daysailer for you and 50 of your closest friends. Are any of them used as "head boats" like the Maine schooners?"

 

Using the google, I found one that offers fishing for rockfish. Several skipjacks will take you and as many as fit on a 2 hour sail. A couple even dredge for oysters.

IIRC, there is a good sized skipjack that does tourist sails (3 hour cruises) out of Baltimore's inner harbor (in the summer, anyway).

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That story of the Greek boats got me thinking: Lobsterboat--sail->power; Chesapeake deadrise--sail->power...maybe you'll find many of our favorite working powerboats have a strong sailing lineage? Curious about the lafitte's full history.

Through the '50s and '60s in Virginia (not sure about Maryland), you could tong for oysters from a powerboat, but you could only dredge for oysters under sail.

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The skipjacks had no engines, but most had a 10-15' 'tender' that had a car or truck engine in it, and a huge prop. they acted as pushboats - a lot of the skipjacks had fittings built onto one quarter or the other that the pushboat would fit into. Couldn't easily put them on the stern - the barn door rudder was back there and it had to have room to swing.

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The pushboat would be used to get them out and back quicker than sailing, and they could still dredge under sail.

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A classic with an American connection , Some of you guys might remember Thelma,Built here but spent a lot of her life in Hawaii and then I think San Diego? after the war. up until about ooo 2000 and something. 1898 build.

This is last weekend in the first of our club cruising races for the season.

 

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Just because there is a bowsprit, does not mean that the foredeck guy has to spend the entire day there.

 

Get off the bow!!!

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Since powerboats are accepted in this thread, I'll voice admiration for the small kaiki fishing boats seen in harbors throughout Greece. They evolved from lateen-rigged sailing craft, but now are almost universally powered by small single-cylinder diesels. "Thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka ..."

 

sP1010010.JPG

 

sP1010035.JPG

 

sP1010039.JPG

 

sP1010043.JPG

 

They are very cool and distinctive boats.

 

They are Caiques by the way "Keye ee kee - how's that for a little arrant pedantry?

 

In Greek, it's "καΐκι".

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If we're on the subject of fishing boats, From the Thames Estuary comes the Essex Smack. Big rig as they used to haul a beam trawl, often in the winter as their crews were off sailing on the big yachts in the summer.

 

EssexSmack01.jpg

 

EssexSmack02.jpg

tres cool!

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

There's a lot of stress on the fellow sat on the end of the plank. He's going to spend hours sat on an uncomfortable plank with the fat kid in the red hat leaning on his nuts. Perhaps he's on a different plank? Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside. In that case it's the chubby bird leaning on the fat kid in the red hat. Either way there aren't a lot of people in that picture I'd want leaning on my nuts for the afternoon.

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

 

The reason they are called log canoes is because much of the hull is made of a several large logs drifted together and hewn into shape in much the same way an ancient dugout canoe is made. That;s why a log canoe won't twist itself to destruction like a conventional carvel planked and framed boat.

 

Here is a fascinating slide show showing how it was done. Linky

 

15.jpg

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

There's a lot of stress on the fellow sat on the end of the plank. He's going to spend hours sat on an uncomfortable plank with the fat kid in the red hat leaning on his nuts. Perhaps he's on a different plank? Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside. In that case it's the chubby bird leaning on the fat kid in the red hat. Either way there aren't a lot of people in that picture I'd want leaning on my nuts for the afternoon.

 

If it was the America's Cup, they'd call it "dynamic stability control."

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You can see the downside of log canoe racing at about 2:40 in this cool video. I'll bet no one is yelling starboard.

 

 

 

I like their solution to the loss of lift at the top of a triangular sail: just add another little sail up there!

 

It would be even better if the little sail had yet another on top, like a wedding cake of sails.

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Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside.

 

Isn't that the whole point? Why else go sailing, methinks.

At great expense I'll wager. Wait! It's been done.

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Early oyster boats in the Chesapeake were log canoes. Not too stable but there are races:

 

p1020370.jpg

 

Tacking and jibing this must be like a Chinese fire drill.

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how much sail area can you fit to a small boat????

 

from the historic 18ft skiff archive: gretel II

 

yandy87580.jpg

 

That's the skiff Brittania.

 

Gretel II was a twelve meter.

 

You can see the canvas lee cloth popped up on the leeward side to give the bailer boy an even chance.

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Tricky:

Really?

Well it looks like BRITTANIA is wearing GRETEL'S clothes. What do you call that sail hanging off the gaff? I'd call it the "whizzer".

 

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Looking forward to having Advocate here on Monday.

Studding Sail?

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Actually it's called a `ringtail'. I don't know if that's a reference to the ringtail possum or not.

 

There was illegal betting aboard the steamers/ferries that followed the racing. The large insignias on the sails helped the spectator/punters follow the boats.

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how much sail area can you fit to a small boat????

 

from the historic 18ft skiff archive: gretel II

 

yandy87580.jpg

 

That "flap" on the main is just about the weirdest sail I've ever seen. Makes bloopers and tallboys look downright scientific.

 

Why isn't the crew's underwear hanging there somewhere?

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The crews raced for prize money and when there's betting on the races there may have been other pressures on the crew.

 

I'm sure they would have hung their underwear out had there not been ladies present.

:)

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Looks pretty similar to some of the old autoboats. Like this one by Chas Desmond. The Solution to high(er) speed with a low power-to-weight ratio plant hasn't changed much. Looks like the Irens may have a bit more beam and a less aggressive forefoot. Hell, even the styling hasn't changed much.

YELfs3H.jpg

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Milo:

That detail does not surprise me although I agree with you. The blade area looks very small. For another really weird rudder prop shaft setup Google the plans for BABY BOOTLEGGER. Although in concept it is the reverse of the Desmond boat with the rudder directly aft of the prop. I am awed at what the old guys could do casting bronze. I'll see if I can dig up an image.

 

1924BabyBootlegger_zpsd027e527.jpg

 

BABY BOOTLEGGER belongs in my own Top Ten Boats of All Time. I have seen the original lines plan and it is a work of art.

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Some more history, seemingly contradictory to the 1924 Gold Cup win, unless Baby Bootlegger wasn't a "real" step hull.

 

http://www.homewoodboatworks.com/page6.html

 

Stepped hulls were apparently conceived in the 1870's but it is not clear whether some of the first boats with stepped hulls could develop the speed necessary to demonstrate the "hydroplane" advantage. Displacement hulls would dominate boat racing until about 1908. Once there was enough power, from a light enough power plant, boats began to plane (ca 1908-1910). Once on plane, it became increasingly clear that a step increased hull speed by "releasing" the water's grip on the bottom of the boat. There is simply less surface area in contact with the water at speed. The effect was noticeable by 1910-1911. The first stepped-hull boat to win the Gold Cup was MIT II in 1911. The effect was quite significant. MIT II was decidedly faster than the previous winner, with less than 50% of the power. The "fast-steppers" would dominate boat racing for decades.


Some race boat authorities and historians have pronounced the stepped-hull to be the single most important development in hull design. Stepped-hull race boats worked so well, particularly for Gar Wood, that in 1922 the American Power Boat Association ("APBA"), the rule-making authority that defines Gold Cup entry requirements, outlawed any form of step in the hull as an unfair advantage over a so-called gentleman's race boat. So Gar Wood focused on other, unlimited, races like the Harmsworth. Stepped hulls were allowed. There were no limits on power. Gar Wood was unbeatable. He took the Harmsworth Trophy home nine times.


The APBA finally relented in 1929 and amended the rules to once again allow stepped-hull hydroplanes to compete for the Gold Cup. Hornet II was one of only 10 stepped-hull Gar Wood's built between 1929 and 1934. Thus, the step in Hornet II was designed and built by Gar Wood after 10 or more years of practical experience with stepped hulls. Most importantly, it was built with the renewed expectation that the owner may indeed power the boat to compete for the Gold Cup.

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

 

Out of respect to the Queen we fly it upside down so it looks the right way up to her. -_-

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

 

Out of respect to the Queen we fly it upside down so it looks the right way up to her. -_-

Ha, ha. Very good. :)

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So a step that close to the prop, would it introduce air in the prop stream, or did it effectively make the prop surface piercing?

 

She's not a stepped hydroplane. That stern is pointy. As far as the prop immersion, consider the angle the water makes. There is a contemporary motorboat on the market with a patent on that overhang--even though it is on Baby Bootlegger. (The patent office has lost most of its marbles the past 10 years).

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BABY BOOTLEGGER belongs in my own Top Ten Boats of All Time. I have seen the original lines plan and it is a work of art.

 

Hard to argue with that. She just looks so... right. Fast, elegant, the epitome of 20's style.

 

As for the rudder, scanning through some old Rudder articles I noticed a few other speed launches with that same configuration. It appears to have been a not uncommon detail on early high speed launches. It's clever (gets the rudder up, out of the way, moves the rudder post forward for a reasonable length tiller, etc.) if you ignore the hydrodynamics of it.

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If they tried to launch that at Tofino they would be looking for their naughty bits within 2 waves. I do like her outfit.

 

It's tiny and the sections are so detailed. WTF are they going to do with that? It's like a catamaSUP with a sail.

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Slug - how do they maneuver them enough for boat-to-boat racing ? What is The Trick ?

 

Looks a fair bit bigger than a Mono-Cat to me, - close to a Wave but I'd like some rudders, please.

They steer with a combination of the skipper shifting his weight fore and aft and sail trim.

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Slug - how do they maneuver them enough for boat-to-boat racing ? What is The Trick ?

 

Looks a fair bit bigger than a Mono-Cat to me, - close to a Wave but I'd like some rudders, please.

They steer with a combination of the skipper shifting his weight fore and aft and sail trim.

 

The were written up in WoodenBoat somewhere in the past. Another boat that was raced with no rudder was the St. Lawrence Skiff, albeit a monohull.

 

Oh and of course the ice scooters of Great South Bay.

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Hey Kim,

 

Post a pic of that boat that's now the cover photo for the NW School on Facebook.

I don't have any pictures of that vessel.

 

 

This one?

 

1512541_652553224767760_1789797502_n.jpg

 

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AZULITA, the first Sentinel-24, designed by Stephens Waring Yacht Design, and built in 2013 by instructor Sean Kooman and students in the Contemporary program at the Northwest School of Wooden Boatbuilding. — at Wooden Boat Festival 2013.

 

http://youtu.be/wrrwdKmmZps

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Hey Kim,

 

Post a pic of that boat that's now the cover photo for the NW School on Facebook.

I don't have any pictures of that vessel.

 

 

This one?

 

1512541_652553224767760_1789797502_n.jpg

 

1185287_10151882240466285_1150583370_n.j

 

>AZULITA, the first Sentinel-24, designed by Stephens Waring Yacht Design, and built in 2013 by instructor Sean Kooman and students in the Contemporary program at the Northwest School of Wooden Boatbuilding. — at Wooden Boat Festival 2013.

 

http://youtu.be/wrrwdKmmZps

 

You know. I always kinda thought SW could do pretty good designs. It looks like the School did a nice build job.

 

But.

 

I think Bob woulda done a better cockpit. It looks like the cockpit coaming sides are parallel which seems a little disconcerting with the shapely hull. T'ain't quite right… IMNTBHO!

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Perfectionist mode on.

 

Not pretty. Looks bit odd with the slab topsides and not much spring in the sheer. The daft electric outboard doesn't help, nor do the hatches.

 

In other words, bit of a pastiche of the real thing like a Dragon

 

Perfectionist mode off.

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Well, it is a contemporary boat with a few traditional styling elements, rather than the other way around. The elements would include the cockpit coaming, the transom, and the teak deck. And maybe the curved bow profile. Maybe. Everything else is current. From a styling standpoint, the question becomes whether there really is dissonance or not, and why we would treat it that way. I would say "yes" to that dissonance on the basis that the "traditional" boats were what they were, in the context of the state of the art of the time. They gain their "styling" from being state of the art. Doing "traditional with a modern underbelly" gets really tricky because you are now purposely going "backwards" rather than optimal or forwards or something. This is not to say that you cannot have a more traditional look with modern stuff. Arguments against this idea of dissonance are also easy: look at any classic one design whether Thistle or 505 or Lightning or Snipe or Star. All of them have been updated with equipment, while retaining their original hullforms. To our eyes, they are beautiful in all their epochs and what we really appreciate between say, one 505 and another, is good design--more Bauhaus versus frill--more functional and efficient and elegant versus disorganized or haphazard.

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After careful study and a few pancakes Ad and I have come to the conclusion that this is a very nice boat . But, we would do it entirely different.

 

I can hear that cockpit coaming now, " Gee whizz Mom. All the other guys have some sweep or taper to their coaming. Why can't I have just a little bit. Don't make me go ouitside looking like this. They guys will laugh at me."

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++++ to that.

 

Here's a boat I really admire--both outside and in--with a new interior layout.

 

http://www.rockportmarine.com/boat_details.php?boatID=21&category=5

 

 

 

 

Lovely motor sailer. Wouldn't have the sailing ability to keep me satisfied, but she's beautifully turned out and obviously very comfortable. I love her two dinks on tiers.

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After careful study and a few pancakes Ad and I have come to the conclusion that this is a very nice boat . But, we would do it entirely different.

 

I can hear that cockpit coaming now, " Gee whizz Mom. All the other guys have some sweep or taper to their coaming. Why can't I have just a little bit. Don't make me go ouitside looking like this. They guys will laugh at me."

You're very good at this boat anthropomorphism Bob.

Everything's just a little bit too sensible about it. Sensible shoes, sensible haircut. Probably doesn't drink either. Maybe it's a mormon.

Still a handsome thing.

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It's such a beautiful boat that I hate to nit pick.

 

No, that's a lie. I love to nit pick. It could have been beautifuller.

3" less freeboard?

 

Still as is its a great looking boat that appears to schoon right along.

 

Veegs:

Yes, exactly. That was my point. With all the curves and contours in a boat a parallel line never ends up looking parallel. If you want a line to look parallel you cannot make it parallel.

Parallel lines leave not tolerance at all for error. Like a voice with no vibrato. Add some new curvature to the second line and a multitude of sins can be covered. Like a wide vibrato.

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The daft electric outboard doesn't help

The side mount outboard is one thing that I like. Easier to deploy and stow than hanging off the transom. Only needed if there's no wind. If she's kept on a swinging mooring, even better. It's there as a get you home when the wind dies, but lives in the locker otherwise. And a Torqeedo (sic) with a separate battery makes great sense. Lighter than a petrol engine, & no leaky fuel worries.

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++++ to that.

 

Here's a boat I really admire--both outside and in--with a new interior layout.

 

http://www.rockportmarine.com/boat_details.php?boatID=21&category=5

 

 

Lovely motor sailer. Wouldn't have the sailing ability to keep me satisfied, but she's beautifully turned out and obviously very comfortable. I love her two dinks on tiers.

 

 

 

62 feet long with twin 125 hp diesels.

 

Masts on a motorboat. It could be a much better motorboat without them.

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++++ to that.

 

Here's a boat I really admire--both outside and in--with a new interior layout.

 

http://www.rockportmarine.com/boat_details.php?boatID=21&category=5

 

 

Lovely motor sailer. Wouldn't have the sailing ability to keep me satisfied, but she's beautifully turned out and obviously very comfortable. I love her two dinks on tiers.

 

 

 

62 feet long with twin 125 hp diesels.

 

Masts on a motorboat. It could be a much better motorboat without them.

 

They're more like stabilisers. They stop a round bottomed girl rolling about....

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The daft electric outboard doesn't help

The side mount outboard is one thing that I like. Easier to deploy and stow than hanging off the transom. Only needed if there's no wind. If she's kept on a swinging mooring, even better. It's there as a get you home when the wind dies, but lives in the locker otherwise. And a Torqeedo (sic) with a separate battery makes great sense. Lighter than a petrol engine, & no leaky fuel worries.

Well, I like the torqueedo too, but the sidemount not so much, both looks and function (what about port side docking for example?). So why not have it an a lazarette on a bracket, centerline mounted. From the pic, it looks like there is a hatch on the fantail already . . .

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That's nothing new.

 

Sidewheel_Steamer.jpg

 

With what we know now about wave-making from displacement hulls, don't those paddlewheels seem to be in the least efficient place? Or do these boats never get going fast enough to make a large hole in the wave train?

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