Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 In 1963 I returned from Europe on the SS United States in October. The captain of the ship must have wanted to get home in a hurry, we made the crossing from Le Havre, France to NYC in 4 1/2 days. The North Atlantic was a tad rough, the waves were big enough to toss an almost 1,000' ship up and down like an elevator on crack. One minute you would be weightless, the next, your stomach was trying to push through your diaphragm. The only time in my life I got seasick, the first day was hell and then I got used to the motion. Back then the ocean liners were built to go anywhere, anytime. When I look at these wedding cake mega yachts it reminds of the modern "cruise ships". I don't think any of them would have survived that crossing we made in '63. I like the looks of a purposeful boat. It is a shame that the SS United States is rusting away at a pier in Philadelphia, I hope they can eventually restore her. There is a great video of her past and present on this site: http://www.ssusc.org/category/news/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marinatrix447 212 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 OMG nooo.... ghastly stinkboat superyachts.... here on dinghy/retro sail boat lovin' anarchy.... surely not?!? I've never seen one I've ever liked. I found in interesting reading that the Irishman Eddie Jordan (him of F1 fame)... has the super posser mega Sunseeker to be dockside Monaco.... though bought the Oyster to go real time circumnav sailing on....still with crew of course. If its gotta say FOTROYPs... then only Perini Navi will do... Though while docked in Poros/Πόρος, Greece... I'll never forget Aegyd arriving double handed at sunset on 'Sarah Key'.... parking neatly backward amongst the white Corolla/Camry MV tottie.... a crowd gathered quickly. For sheer class...sail wins hands down... always. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monsoon 328 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Back when I lived in Miami I used to see the France (though she was called the Norway at the time) going in and out of Government cut. That was a pretty ship Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 That is beautiful. It actually has spring to the sheer. It actually has a sheer. I bet it even has walk around side decks above the sheer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 624 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I crossed the Atlantic on France back in '72 - one of the last regularly scheduled crossings from New York to Southampton and on to Le Havre... Unfortunately i was just 6 years old at the time - too young to really appreciate the chance I had, but I still have some memories of the ship and the voyage... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 440 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 That is beautiful. It actually has spring to the sheer. It actually has a sheer. I bet it even has walk around side decks above the sheer. And I see Ben Lexcen had a hand in the design of the funnels.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,606 Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 That is beautiful. It actually has spring to the sheer. It actually has a sheer. I bet it even has walk around side decks above the sheer. And I see Ben Lexcen had a hand in the design of the funnels.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marinatrix447 212 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Re stink boats: *I've never seen one I've ever liked* Actually that’s not quite true, (well we all do white lies occasionally)…John Shuttleworth’s ‘Adastra’ is a beauty… and very fuel efficient too… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GCDuwu_Z8 http://www.shuttleworthdesign.com/adastra.php Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Dawn 20 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Wowza! Definitely cool. The captain needs to be called Kirk. Wouldn't foils be a nice addition? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blackjenner 11 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 nice. seriously nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 In a similar vein, kinda sorta. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bar Shaker 0 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This was having a bum scrub down at the marina (Shotley, Essex) on Saturday. Such beautiful lines, you couldn't help but stop and admire it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanjb 187 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I wonder how you tie it to the dock? Re stink boats: *I've never seen one I've ever liked* Actually thats not quite true, (well we all do white lies occasionally)John Shuttleworths Adastra is a beauty and very fuel efficient too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GCDuwu_Z8 http://www.shuttleworthdesign.com/adastra.php Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 624 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This was having a bum scrub down at the marina (Shotley, Essex) on Saturday. Such beautiful lines, you couldn't help but stop and admire it. Newish 8m by the looks of it, missing its appendages? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,407 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This was having a bum scrub down at the marina (Shotley, Essex) on Saturday. Such beautiful lines, you couldn't help but stop and admire it. Newish 8m by the looks of it, missing its appendages? That's my guess, it looks exactly like a 1960s~1970s era 12 Meter, only without the rig or foils. And it looks too big to be a 6M. Beautiful boat, hope it goes back together well FB- Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bar Shaker 0 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Doug I am back there in two weeks so I'll hopefully be able to update you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 When I had my cronie dinner the other night we were discussing the meter boats and saying despite the controls imposed or because of those controls those hulls are among the most beautiful ever designed. That big, deep midsection with all that deadrise was a pure result of the rule and the midships chain and skin girth measurements. Simply speaking you paid a penalty if your skin girth and your chain girth were not the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tucky 36 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I know a lot of people that pay a penalty because their skin girth and chain girth are not the same, but I can think of women that are beautiful as a result of same. Go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I know a lot of people that pay a penalty because their skin girth and chain girth are not the same, but I can think of women that are beautiful as a result of same. Go figure. Life is full of mysteries like that. It's a conundrum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 You know you are bordering on becoming one of the world's most boring people when a discussion of skin and chain girths is exciting. I resemble that remark. Hey Soaker! Next week on the PBS show Globe Trekker they are doing Poland. I'm going to watch it because you live there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 282 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Does the 5.5 Meter Class have a girth rule? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Presuming Ed 270 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 No. http://www.5.5class.org/technique/55_rating_rules_07.pdf 2. MEASUREMENT FORMULA AND LIMITS 2.1. 0.9*((L*S^(1/2)/12/D^(1/3))+((L+S^(1/2))/4)) shall not exceed 5.500 metres Where: L = Length for rating (rule 3) S = Measured sail area (rule 16) D = Displacement in cubic metres. This shall be taken as the weight (kg) when the yacht is first measured or when it is re-weighed for subsequent revalidation's, divided by 1025. 2.2. The following limits shall apply: Minimum beam 1.900m (rule 5) Maximum draft 1.350m (rule 14) Maximum D 2.000m3 Minimum D 1.700m3 Minimum average F 0.628m (rule 4) Maximum S 29.000m² (rule 16) Minimum S 26.500m² Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wash 0 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This was having a bum scrub down at the marina (Shotley, Essex) on Saturday. Such beautiful lines, you couldn't help but stop and admire it. 10 Meter me thinks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That stern wave is very exciting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This is the next iteration Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This is the next iteration photo.JPG Needs an itsy wee helipad and better shroud for the motor. You could probably combine them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 maybe a drone pad? Welcome to the future.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 1,379 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 These boats are pretty phallic. lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 565 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You know you are bordering on becoming one of the world's most boring people when a discussion of skin and chain girths is exciting. I resemble that remark. Hey Soaker! Next week on the PBS show Globe Trekker they are doing Poland. I'm going to watch it because you live there. Good to see you have weathered your technology hickup Bob and are back entertaining us w/ pearls of wisdom!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,565 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This is the next iteration photo.JPG Looks like an Imperial Stormtrooper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You know you are bordering on becoming one of the world's most boring people when a discussion of skin and chain girths is exciting. I resemble that remark. Hey Soaker! Next week on the PBS show Globe Trekker they are doing Poland. I'm going to watch it because you live there. That's cool. Make sure you have some ice cold vodka on hand or at least some Polish beer. I'll have to see if I can watch it on the internet. Nas drowia! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ed: I'll try and find out exactly when it's going to be on. I will get some Polish vodka. Care to recommend one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ed: I'll try and find out exactly when it's going to be on. I will get some Polish vodka. Care to recommend one? In my opinion pretty much all but the cheapest vodkas are alike. The biggest difference is the more expensive ones might be filtered a little more. Belvedere, Chopin, Sobieski are all good better brands. If you want something different there is Dąbrowa which is aged in oak with a nice hint of oak in it. Dąb means oak in Polish. Or there is Żubrówka, a Żubr is a type of European bison. They eat a particular grass which has a spicy, touch of cinnamon flavor. They use this in the vodka and there is one stem of the bison grass in the bottle. You can mix it with apple juice and make a drink called "Czarlotka" which means "apple pie' which is exactly what you taste when you drink it. Both of those brands should be available in the US. Whatever you get, drink it cold, I keep mine in the freezer, melting ice dilutes it too much. Warm vodka sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'll see what I can find Ed. Chopin vodka sounds good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This is the next iteration photo.JPG Looks like an Imperial Stormtrooper. I can see the aesthetic/seakeeping progression for the white one, but I like the yellow one more. For cruising an archapeligo, inland passages, lakes, rivers etc.? Carry a blow up convertible Windsurfer/ SUP or maybe a blow up sailing proa? Nuzzle up to a beach, gunk holing etc....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fastyacht 2,596 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 good vodka: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'll see what I can find Ed. Chopin vodka sounds good. Chopin is my sentimental favorite, when I first met my wife, she gave me a bottle of Chopin vodka with two shot glasses. The vodka is long gone but I still love the glasses with a profile of Chopin on them. I love Chopin. The composer that is, the vodka is good too. My wife plays Chopin for me when I am good. Chopin vodka costs about $20.00 for a .7 liter bottle here in a nice box. That is high end vodka in Poland where the average stuff is about $7.00-10.00 for .7 liter. I have no idea what it will cost in the US. Of course in Poland tradition demands once you open a bottle, you don't put the cap back. Vodka usually comes in .5 and .7 liter bottles, occasionally 1 liter. I have 2 brothers in law that drink that shit like water, I can handle a half liter ok, after that things get dicey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Lada 5,093 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 good vodka: Any ice cold vodka is good vodka. Vodka is just grain alcohol watered down to usually 80 proof (40% alcohol) and to my palate, just alcohol tastes like shit. Get it cold enough it just slides down the throat and pretty soon you con't care about anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warbird 937 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have 2 brothers in law that drink that shit like water, I can handle a half liter ok, after that things get dicey. Definitely a sailor..... :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Vikingsfjord is pure potato vodka. That's hard to find today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jerry Cann 0 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Vikingsfjord is pure potato vodka. That's hard to find today. Chopin is a potato vodka as well. As is Luksusowa, a very good and more affordable potato vodka than Chopin, but I bet you can't tell the difference. I happen to have a .5l bottle of Żubrówka in my Scotch cabinet that I picked up in Olecko about 10 years ago when I visited the Delphia factory. Maybe I'll open it and have a dram one day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Vikingsfjord is pure potato vodka. That's hard to find today. I thought that was the definition of Vodka. What else can it be made from and still be Vodka? Or have the advertising scumbags made it so any sort of grain alcohol is "Vodka"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Vikingsfjord is pure potato vodka. That's hard to find today. I thought that was the definition of Vodka. What else can it be made from and still be Vodka? Or have the advertising scumbags made it so any sort of grain alcohol is "Vodka"? According to Wikipedia, vodka has always been made from a variety of grains or potatoes. We can still regard the advertising world as scumbags, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,606 Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 [attachment=219094:IMG_3013.jpg Peniel at Friday Harbor yesterday, looking good. That's a Bill Garden sloop isn't it, fred? As you say, she's still looking good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yes, definitely Bill Garden, she was owner for a number of years by a friend of Bob Perry and Mine, Peter Dow. He used to create gourmet meals on board, previously owned Cafe Juanita in Seattle area and then went on to be a wine importer, Cavatapi wines. Brings back fond memories to see her being well cared for and could definitely fit in the hard dodger thread too although I would tend to refer to her cabin as a Dog House. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sorry to interrupt the thread drift, had Absolut Citron martinis w/ my sweetheart last night. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 440 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 [attachment=219094:IMG_3013.jpg Peniel at Friday Harbor yesterday, looking good. What a nice looking boat. Self confident, still a bit perky but grown-up now, without the slightly fake "look at me I'm a ship" look of some of his boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SySunday 14 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Saw this today at the Jim Betts yard in Anacortes WA. [/url ] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobot 4,395 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Is that Arunga? *edit* US 122 is Capriccio. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,606 Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 Lovely looking cutter. Maybe a little more sheer spring and a longer sprit in line with her sheer, would please me more - but she is pretty for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,565 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The rudder post area of that Meter boat is as distorted as any IOR boat I ever saw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Jon: Similar girth measurements at work. It's a rule thang. It's not an accident nor is it a search for the "shape of speed". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't like that Hoek design. Everything about it looks wrong to my eye. It's a B- at best. I'm really thinking C+. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 1,379 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't like that Hoek design. Everything about it looks wrong to my eye. It's a B- at best. I'm really thinking C+. Yea, I have to agree. Something very wonky and stilted about that design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Sightlines from the cockpit are a little awkward, it seems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm sort of picky. It's a fabulous boat. no question. But I'd like to tweak every line about 2.783" That is all it would take. Ok, 2.82115". The extra room will help. I don't need all of it. That cabin trunk may be "retro" but it's retro awful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobot 4,395 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I already realize that I'm a nutter but I really like it. I like them Pinky Schooners too. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/4991034489.html please don't judge me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,606 Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Two ketches I like the lines of: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm with you there Sailby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 1,379 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I already realize that I'm a nutter but I really like it. I like them Pinky Schooners too. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/4991034489.html please don't judge me. consider yourself judged. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 1,843 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'll see what I can find Ed. Chopin vodka sounds good. Do you get a surprise if you finish the whole bottle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rattus32 48 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 i am too and i couldn't figure out what everybody was on about Just remember we're right, and they're the ones that see the world oddly . . . There was a really cool show on NPR last weekend - I think it was RadioLab - that addressed visual acuity (and especially color detection) and what the world looks like to various species, which they illustrated with a chorus that expanded its range as color reception (# of cone types) grew. More infrared, more ultraviolet, more graduations of blue. Turns out the mantis shrimp is the champion, with 14 types of cones as opposed to our measly 3 (and for the R/G colorblind, 2). The vocal illustrations were fascinating. I knew those stupid Costco runs were good for something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rattus32 48 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Back when I lived in Miami I used to see the France (though she was called the Norway at the time) going in and out of Government cut. That was a pretty ship SS_Norway.jpg The France surrendered and became the Norway. ;-) Also, my Dad did 3 1/2 transatlantics between '53 and '56 on the SS United States, coming from Germany to the States to woo my Mom, who had to accompany her parents to the US after they escaped East Berlin. The last 1/2 was to stay in the US. One of the transat runs was a record-setter according to him; he loved that boat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rattus32 48 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Vikingsfjord is pure potato vodka. That's hard to find today. Chopin is a potato vodka as well. As is Luksusowa, a very good and more affordable potato vodka than Chopin, but I bet you can't tell the difference. I happen to have a .5l bottle of Żubrówka in my Scotch cabinet that I picked up in Olecko about 10 years ago when I visited the Delphia factory. Maybe I'll open it and have a dram one day. We have a domestic single-point-of-origin potato vodka here in Colorado, Woody Creek. From Hunter S. Thompson's old stomping ground - they grow the potatos, harvest them, distill, filter and age it all on site. Our town hosted a Colorado distiller's show for which my wife's shop was a food pairing; to me the Woody Creek was the best Wodka by far. And we don't really like them folks up Aspen way ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 624 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm sort of picky. It's a fabulous boat. no question. But I'd like to tweak every line about 2.783" That is all it would take. Ok, 2.82115". The extra room will help. I don't need all of it. That cabin trunk may be "retro" but it's retro awful. Ok Bob, should I ever get to win the Euromillions lottery, I'll let you design your updated version of the classic pilot cutter I love the basic concept but I agree with you, looking at it more closely, there are some lines that are just a bit 'off'... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 440 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 Bob, apart from the doghouse (which I grant is a bit crook - it looks like it's in its retracted position), what else is wrong? To my eye it looks a rather manly and matter of fact boat (if a bit chunky). And the "Pilot Cutter" thing has been somewhat overworked of late, it's true. And I wonder what that line hanging from the bobstay fitting is - in the first one it's tied off to the side of the boat, and on the other it seems to be under tension pointing down. And I don't think the rope rode will last long up against the bobstay like that in the first photo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Ed: It's a nice boat. It's beautifully built. I don't like: the bowsprit treatment the quasi rub strip line the puny, thin bootstripe the ultra boxy cabin trunk the anemic, weak looking outboard rudder profile The lack of character in the cockpit coamings. It's all subjective. I understand I am being very picky. It's a knee jerk reaction for me to look at a boat and wonder what I would do differently. That's one way I try to continue learning my craft. I suspect Mr. Hoek would have the same reaction if he saw my CF cutter. He'd change everything to suit his eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailglobal 9 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 And I wonder what that line hanging from the bobstay fitting is - in the first one it's tied off to the side of the boat, and on the other it seems to be under tension pointing down. And I don't think the rope rode will last long up against the bobstay like that in the first photo. Ed, I believe the line you're curious about is a strop hooked to the anchor chain. It takes the load of the chain and improves the effective scope, and prevents chafe on the bobstay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 And I wonder what that line hanging from the bobstay fitting is - in the first one it's tied off to the side of the boat, and on the other it seems to be under tension pointing down. And I don't think the rope rode will last long up against the bobstay like that in the first photo. Ed, I believe the line you're curious about is a strop hooked to the anchor chain. It takes the load of the chain and improves the effective scope, and prevents chafe on the bobstay. I don't see any chain coming down from the boat anywhere...looks like rope rode spliced to chain to me. First pic is with breeze, second is calm with rope hanging with chain on the bottom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailglobal 9 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 And I wonder what that line hanging from the bobstay fitting is - in the first one it's tied off to the side of the boat, and on the other it seems to be under tension pointing down. And I don't think the rope rode will last long up against the bobstay like that in the first photo. Ed, I believe the line you're curious about is a strop hooked to the anchor chain. It takes the load of the chain and improves the effective scope, and prevents chafe on the bobstay. I don't see any chain coming down from the boat anywhere...looks like rope rode spliced to chain to me. First pic is with breeze, second is calm with rope hanging with chain on the bottom. On closer observation I see there's no hook on the line I guessed to be a strop and as in the first photo the anchor rode appears to be rope, for my guess to be correct it would be necessary to tie the strop onto the rode. This could be done with a timber hitch or two rolling hitches, but might slip when the rode became slack. Gate probably has a knot more suited to the job. On Van Diemen there is a hook on the nylon strop which grabs the chain and works very well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Another aesthetically challenged production train wreck, and it's pink! And I really want one. In light grey or powder blue.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Another aesthetically challenged production train wreck, and it's pink! 03.jpg And I really want one. In light grey or powder blue.... We could paint your boat in Ugly camouflage. I'd kick in a can of Rustoleum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Um, Dazzle please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,565 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Dazzle would be cool. However, On one side, and on the other, It would take "uniquely hideous" to a new level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 440 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ed: It's a nice boat. It's beautifully built. I don't like: the bowsprit treatment the quasi rub strip line the puny, thin bootstripe the ultra boxy cabin trunk the anemic, weak looking outboard rudder profile The lack of character in the cockpit coamings. It's all subjective. I understand I am being very picky. It's a knee jerk reaction for me to look at a boat and wonder what I would do differently. That's one way I try to continue learning my craft. I suspect Mr. Hoek would have the same reaction if he saw my CF cutter. He'd change everything to suit his eye. Bob Thanks for that! Lovely to hear you thinking out loud. Especially as to the lack of moral fibre in the coamings. God is in the details, eh? I'm pleased you weren't dissing the sheer line which I thought pleasant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ed: I like the boat but the designer in me says "I can do that better". I looked hard at the sheer and I agree with you, it's nice. But see that rub strip or bump or whatever that lump is running almost parallel to the sheer? I don't care for the interplay of that line with the sheer. It;s closer to the sheer forward and farther away from the sheer at the transom. I would drop it a bit forward. Just silly, subjective small changes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dog 666 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Similar to the above? Last year I met Hoek design 36' Tintel in Norway: From designers comment: "Tintel was commissioned by the owner of the 70-foot classic ketch Kim. The main reason for this new project was his desire for a smaller yacht that could be easily handled by one or two crew. In response, we developed an exciting and innovative pilot cutter, with a plumb bow and tiller steering. Her modern underwater configuration includes a deep fin keel and spade rudder, while a very high sail area to displacement ratio offers an impressive performance in all conditions. Launched in 2000, Tintel fulfilled her brief admirably while cruising in northern European waters, where her beautiful looks drew many plaudits." SPECIFICATIONS LOA 11.0 m LWL 10.5 m Beam 3.4 m Draft 2.1 m Sail Area 114 m2 Yard Bloemsma & van Breemen Year 2001 And I wonder what that line hanging from the bobstay fitting is - in the first one it's tied off to the side of the boat, and on the other it seems to be under tension pointing down. And I don't think the rope rode will last long up against the bobstay like that in the first photo. Ed, I believe the line you're curious about is a strop hooked to the anchor chain. It takes the load of the chain and improves the effective scope, and prevents chafe on the bobstay. I don't see any chain coming down from the boat anywhere...looks like rope rode spliced to chain to me. First pic is with breeze, second is calm with rope hanging with chain on the bottom. On closer observation I see there's no hook on the line I guessed to be a strop and as in the first photo the anchor rode appears to be rope, for my guess to be correct it would be necessary to tie the strop onto the rode. This could be done with a timber hitch or two rolling hitches, but might slip when the rode became slack. Gate probably has a knot more suited to the job. On Van Diemen there is a hook on the nylon strop which grabs the chain and works very well. I like this boat a lot but a couple questions. Is it wooden? The stem looks like wood but it was built in 2001 so maybe it was made to look like wood. What is the correct name for the structure projecting off the stern that the back stay attaches to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanjb 187 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Boomkin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 440 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Or Bumkin. Same thing. Steel, I guess, being Dutch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warbird 937 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ed: I like the boat but the designer in me says "I can do that better". I looked hard at the sheer and I agree with you, it's nice. But see that rub strip or bump or whatever that lump is running almost parallel to the sheer? I don't care for the interplay of that line with the sheer. It;s closer to the sheer forward and farther away from the sheer at the transom. I would drop it a bit forward. Just silly, subjective small changes. Damn, but you have a good eye. I thought the rub rail thing was just a paralell to the sheer to reduce the visual impact of the higher freeboard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Bird: How you treat that "rub rail" line is a personal thing. I worked with a designer when I was young who always placed the rub rail half way between the sheer and the DWL. I thought it looked like shit there. I do it by eye with an eye to where max beam is and where I think it become less than effective for actual rubbing. I like to flatten the curvature of the rub rail. If it's really close to the sheer, say 6" or maybe 10" you can just parallel the sheer. That works in that case. But if it's further down the hull I use a flatter curve, closer to the sheer amidships and then dropping very slightly in the ends. I do the same thing with a cove stripe. I try to avoid the "smile" shape you get if you maintain a constant "on the skin" distance. It has to be a vertical distance regardless of the skin girth. For my eye anyway. If you look at CATARI, ND's boat, you can see I combined cove stripe and rub rail. I like the result. But I broke my own rule here and gave the curve a bit of a kick aft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,415 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I never tire of looking at that profile. Well done, Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sailglobal 9 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Tintel is aluminum and the rub strip is probably welded on whilst the hull is upside down. It may be the strip is actually parallel to the sheer and is 'distorted' in the photo shown. When I look at the profile of Catari my cranky eyes interpret the cove stripe/rub rail has a greater curve than the sheer. I personally think the Hoek design is very attractive and needs no 'tweeks' To me that would be an insult to the designer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry 1,333 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 My curse is that I think 99.5% of all other designs need my tweaking. That's why I am a designer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amati 1,851 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Dazzle would be cool. However, On one side, and on the other, It would take "uniquely hideous" to a new level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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