American C Class History

[lohring 1]

I've been digging through some old junk and found some interesting film on the early years of the C class catamarans in the US. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the boats were transitioning from conventional rigs to wing masts. The hulls were often wood or lower tech fiberglass and could be designed and built by talented amateurs. Sealion, designed and built by Dave and Jerry Hubbard, was the first departure with a single sail on a bendy mast, Gamecock, designed by George Patterson and financed by Tony DiMauro, was the first US C with a wing mast. It's design followed his first wing masted cat, Sprinter. Greer Ellis' Yankee Flier improved the wing mast with a thicker, high aspect ratio wing. The ultimate US wing mast boat was Scimitar, designed by Otto Scheer. He and his brother-in-law, Gene Miller built it from cold molded plywood in a basement. If it hadn't been destroyed in an accident when returning from the Yachting One-of-a-Kind regatta, the 1972 challenge with Australia might have had very different results. Adding to the above mix was Meade and Jan Gougeon's "C class" tri, Victor T. It was wider than a cat with a conventional sloop rig. However, its very light formed plywood hulls, described in their book on boat building, made it nearly unbeatable in light air.

 

The above boats raced together in the 1969 North American Multihull Championships held in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club.

 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/L_BJUlVZSbQ

 

The old boats were clearly outclassed by Scimitar and the Gougeon brothers established themselves as trimaran designers and premier wood boat builders. Here are some pictures of the boats taken from 8 mm videos.

Victor T sailed by the Gougeons

Scimitar sailed by Otto Scheer and Gene Miller

Yankee Flier sailed by Greer Ellis?

Gamecock sailed by Lohring Miller

Sealion sailed by Bill and daughter Meg Steane

 

Because the obvious US challenger, Scimitar, had been destroyed, a selection trial was held before the 1972 challenge. The boats were George Patterson's Weathercock, again financed by Tony DiMauro, and Bill Steane's Mountain Lion, the old Sealion hulls with a new, light weight wing mast. Some video of the boats at the race is below.

 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/32Ru_BK2NZc

 

Below also are some pictures of the boats. Weathercock won and went on to lose to the Australians.

Weathercock

Tony DiMauro & George Patterson

Mountain Lion

 

 

Lohring Miller

[Catnewbie 0]

Thanks Lohring,

 

Very interesting, but to be ehaustive, you could have mentionned the Clark family who has been "sponsoring" the C-Cat serie for decades, just like the Medicis family used to sponsor italien artists during the Italian Renaissance.

 

BTW who is the US sailor of the year 2012 ?

 

Cheers Mate

W

[lohring 1]

Van Allen Clark wasn't active during this period. I believe that was because his full wing boat was damaged in a storm around 1968. Below are some pictures I took of the wing in a shed. I believe this was the first full wing C cat.

 

 

Lohring Miller

 

 

 

 

[Amati 1,523]

Stirring up some dust in my brain there! I was trying to find some results for the one of a kind regatta. No luck. How did Scimitar do?

[blunted 341]

nice work, keep it coming.

 

B

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Thank you ,Lohring! Did Victor T do as well in a breeze?

[PL3 5]

nice work, keep it coming.

 

B

 

 

+100

[lohring 1]

It's been 44 years since the Hamilton regatta so my memories are getting a little fuzzy. The reason I know it will be exactly 44 years on July 19 is that my son was born then, effectively ending both my and my father-in-law, Bill Steane's racing in the regatta. The newspapers thought it was great fun that US citizens would travel all the way to Canada to have a child.

 

I don't remember who won overall, but Scimitar was the official C class winner. I think the Gougeons' tri was either first or second overall at Hamilton. I believe that the tri won a Yachting One-of-a-Kind Regatta, but I'm not sure. It definitely impressed Yachting magazine. Catamarans were just starting to beat the A scow regularly. Victor T suffered structural failures in heavier air but was strengthened by the Hamilton regatta. I believe Scimitar did win the One-of-a-Kind regatta in 1970. It was hit from behind while parked on a freeway shoulder, destroying the boat but probably saving Otto Scheer and his family. I believe Otto's wife was fairly seriously injured.

 

Bill Steane was inspired to build a new, light wing mast after Hamilton. The boat was very promising and probably faster than Weathercock. However, a combination of teething issues and inexperience in C cats conspired to cause its defeat in the trials. Weathercock had broken its mast earlier, but was repaired when it became obvious that there was a chance to become the challenger. She had a superior young crew that out sailed Mountain Lion when the wind came up. Bill took Mountain Lion on a west coast tour around 1974 and sailed against Alex Kosloff, the 1976 US challenger, and other catamarans at the Cabrillo Beach Yacht Club.

 

George Patterson's boats, Gamecock and Weathercock, were built in a chicken coop at his house. That's the reason for the names. Both boats had thin masts that failed in compression and were more difficult to set for best performance. Tony DiMauro generously gave me the remains of Gamecock in 1968 with the only requirement that I keep the name. I rebuilt the broken mast only to have it fail again. Yankee Flier's thick, tall mast was great in the light air that was common in the summer on Long Island Sound where the trials were usually held. It was overpowered in the heavier wind at the 1968 cup race. Lady Helmsman's wing proved to be a better all around design than either Gamecock's or Yankee Flier's.

 

Otto Scheer was a hydrodynamic engineer and understood wings better than most of the early C cat designers. The scimitar shape of his rig was based on his analysis as well as his extensive sailing experience. I wish I could find more pictures. He wrote an excellent article on the effect of aspect ratio and the importance of induced drag over profile drag. Tony DiMaro financed Otto's company's water tunnel testing of Patient Lady's first wing mast sections, and the results were published in the same article. Dave Hubbard's mechanism for control combined with these high lift sections started the Patient Lady full wing dynasty. The first full wing Patient Lady used an unstayed mast similar to the above Van Allen Clark wing. The later boats traded aerodynamic perfection for the lighter weight of a stayed rig.

 

I'll scan my copy and post parts of Otto's article when I get to my home computer. I'll also see what other information and pictures I can find on that era.

 

Lohring Miller

[Doug Lord 1,219]

This stuff is truly great, Lohring-thanks very much! If you run across any more info on Victor T I'd sure like to see it.....

[Steve Clark 832]

There were several reason's why Dad stopped the C Class program.

One was the big correction of the late 60's which cost him about 50% of his net worth and forced him to reevaluate his venture network. Lots of hours and less money.

Second was the arrival of the Tempest Class, which he raced with my mother for 4 or 5 years, then with me and then with Bruce Dyson and Borne Knowles. This took up most of the yacht racing time until about 1976.

But most critical was the sudden death of his very good friend Court Converse. Court designed the wing and Dad and \Court really liked working together. When Court died, I think Dad's heart broke, the boat was "put away" overhead in a shed at Burr Brothers, and I don't think he ever looked at it again. It was still there when he died in 1983 and we broke up the bits and put it in a dumpster.

We sold the hulls to a local guy who never got it together.

Dad did fund Tony DiMauro's Patient Ladies 3, 4 and 5. I think in large part because he was so fond of Dave Hubbard and the only way Dave's ideas would see the light of day was if someone paid the bill.

I first built some parts for PLV in 1983 and in 1985 built the PLVI platform and started sailing with the Patient Lady Team as alternate helmsman. Unfortunately, PLVI wasn't good enough to beat Lindsey Cunningham's Victoria 150. Tony pretty much blamed the whole thing on me. Instead of being a source of funding like my Dad, I built a shitty boat. The group was exhausted and never really got back together except to bury Lorraine and then Tony.

So in 1993 the C Class in the US was totally done. When Tony died, I was stupid enough to start talking to Duncan about redeeeming ourselves, the humiliation of 1985 didn't sit well, and where more well adjusted people move on, I double down. Cogito was the result, and would most likely have been the very end of the story If Fred hadn't gotten involved.

SHC

[Amati 1,523]

Thanks Lohring, blunted, PL3, and Steve and everybody else involved with this stuff. Really. President Kennedy gave us the goal about space travel because it was the hard thing, but if it isn't too invasive a question, why does the C class have such a hold on your imaginations that you would, it would seem, let it impinge on your tranquilities? I must admit, tilting with windmills is one of my favorite things, and it always seems like such a simple, good, obvious idea in the beginning, and it's only when I get to the point that I'm trying to duck the arms that are whizzing by that I begin to ask myself what the hell I'm doing.

 

Cogito ergo sum? ( hope I got that right)

[P Flados 198]

C Class is nothing but inspiring in terms of "man's quest to harness nature" for speed on the water for a two man boat.

 

Thanks again to all for sharing some of the history.

[lohring 1]

Steve, thanks for your clarification. I regret that I never met your dad.

 

I'm still looking through moldy magazines and ancient pictures. The file size limitations make posting a pain, but I'll start with Otto Scherer's article. (Please excuse my spelling of Otto's name in the above posts)

 

Lohring Miller

[lohring 1]

[lohring 1]

Next is a the little I found on the Gougeon's Victor T.

 

 

 

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Thank you very much Lohring! Never dreamed I'd get to see the lines of this great tri. Very interesting to note that the L/B ratio of the main hull is 13/1 and the ama is 12.8/1 !

[Fat Point Jack 168]

Thanks Lohring, blunted, PL3, and Steve and everybody else involved with this stuff. Really. President Kennedy gave us the goal about space travel because it was the hard thing, but if it isn't too invasive a question, why does the C class have such a hold on your imaginations that you would, it would seem, let it impinge on your tranquilities? I must admit, tilting with windmills is one of my favorite things, and it always seems like such a simple, good, obvious idea in the beginning, and it's only when I get to the point that I'm trying to duck the arms that are whizzing by that I begin to ask myself what the hell I'm doing.

 

Cogito ergo sum? ( hope I got that right)

From Mr. Clark's story in Multihulls Magazine, I remember the line to be, "Cogito Ergo Zoom".

 

A reprint of that narrative would fit right in here.

[Steve Clark 832]

Cogito is Latin for "I Think."

I would like to believe that "Thinking" is one of my core skills. Certainly I spend an awful lot of my time doing it.

The Cogito: I think therefore I am. is from Rene Descartes's "Discourse on Method" in which the philosopher attempts to construct reality from first principles. Unable to determine if there is any thing beyond his ability to perceive it, he is forced to conclude that the only evidence he has of his own existence is his own cognitive activity. Something that thinks must (to some extent) exist. It goes on from there, and with a few other block busters as well, ends up being the first philosophy that does not require the action of a deity to create the world as we know it.

Descartes was also responsible for a bunch of other pretty cool things that make the modern world so dynamic and attractive. A very cool dude, so not a bad guy to refer to in a boat name.

So the boat has a Latin name that references philosophy. The study of classics and philosophy probably never enhanced anyone's pay. It isn't something you study to get a great job and to get rich. But that does not mean that they are worthless and a waste of time. This pretty much fits with the mindset necessary to design, build and sail C Class Catamarans. It's hard work out of proportion with the size of the boat and the quality of the competition, but that does nothing to diminish the challenge and reward of the activity. You do it because you can. Or maybe because you can't not.

 

In other news, Doug, those are the panel expansions, not the lines.

Victor T was a really interesting boat, but her performance was very limited to light air and down wind where her relative lack of stability was not a problem. She was far more a monohull with training wheels than a modern trimaran. She could not, for example , ever fly the center hull. Adrenalin suffered from the same limitation. At some point power trumps efficiency, and the super wide french tri's that could fly two hulls simply overpowered this pleasant and slippery concept.

SHC

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Thanks, Steve.

[Amati 1,523]

Cogito is Latin for "I Think."

I would like to believe that "Thinking" is one of my core skills. Certainly I spend an awful lot of my time doing it.

The Cogito: I think therefore I am. is from Rene Descartes's "Discourse on Method" in which the philosopher attempts to construct reality from first principles. Unable to determine if there is any thing beyond his ability to perceive it, he is forced to conclude that the only evidence he has of his own existence is his own cognitive activity. Something that thinks must (to some extent) exist. It goes on from there, and with a few other block busters as well, ends up being the first philosophy that does not require the action of a deity to create the world as we know it.

Descartes was also responsible for a bunch of other pretty cool things that make the modern world so dynamic and attractive. A very cool dude, so not a bad guy to refer to in a boat name.

So the boat has a Latin name that references philosophy. The study of classics and philosophy probably never enhanced anyone's pay. It isn't something you study to get a great job and to get rich. But that does not mean that they are worthless and a waste of time. This pretty much fits with the mindset necessary to design, build and sail C Class Catamarans. It's hard work out of proportion with the size of the boat and the quality of the competition, but that does nothing to diminish the challenge and reward of the activity. You do it because you can. Or maybe be you can't not.

SHC

Glad am I to hear that. As wrapped up as I am in 'The Nature Of Things' (Lucretius) right now, I am inclined to give you the nickname 'Bracciolini', Steve. Or perhaps 'Poggio'. Whichever or both, if you prefer.

 

Respect.

 

Now if I could just figure out why having both knees 'scoped at the same time was a good idea....

[lohring 1]

Please let me know when you get tired of all this old stuff. It brings back a lot of lost memories. To back up a little, here's more from the 1966 and 1969 Yachting One-of-a-Kind (OOAK) Regattas, including more on Victor T. I was wrong in thinking it ever won, but it's performance impressed people at the time. In the light air of the 1966 first race it clearly won but was disqualified. Note also the rise of the catamaran between the two races. The older C cats were there in 1966 including Hellcat sailed by Van Allen Clark.

 

In 1969 the cats dominated. It's too bad times weren't listed, but Scimitar clearly won on corrected time and was second only to the D cat overall. It's also interesting to see the rise of the Tornado over the Hubbard designed B Lion. I knew Don and Patty McNair who were the B Lion builders. Too bad there weren't any pictures of Patty in her wet suit.

 

Lohring Miller

[lohring 1]

[lohring 1]

[Amati 1,523]

Not tired. No no no. Given that Monitor had already proved foils worked a decade before all this, it should be pretty obvious from your posts and the report on the OOAK you posted here that the future of sailing was pretty obvious by the late 60's, except for what, windsurfers, kite surfers and if maybe you ignore Mr Smith, Sail Rocket. "if there had been a 38 foot catamaran with a spinnaker..."

 

 

The 60's was when (for a lot of us of now of a certain <ahem> age) our sailing consciousnesses were set on fire, a re- awakening of the possibilities of sailing machines that was almost completely destroyed by the great wars. Sailing is like music- playing with abstract ideas and technology to push things along. The joys of punishingly steep learning curves.

 

Steve is spot on- The classics are a celebration of this mindset. A roadmap, as it were.

 

Makes me think the AC should be sailed on class D cats, no?

 

So if you've got it in you, Lohring, more?

 

I thought most of this had disappeared into an analog mist, annihilated by the digital singularity.

 

Thanks.

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Please let me know when you get tired of all this old stuff. It brings back a lot of lost memories. To back up a little, here's more from the 1966 and 1969 Yachting One-of-a-Kind (OOAK) Regattas, including more on Victor T. I was wrong in thinking it ever won, but it's performance impressed people at the time. In the light air of the 1966 first race it clearly won but was disqualified. Note also the rise of the catamaran between the two races. The older C cats were there in 1966 including Hellcat sailed by Van Allen Clark.

 

In 1969 the cats dominated. It's too bad times weren't listed, but Scimitar clearly won on corrected time and was second only to the D cat overall. It's also interesting to see the rise of the Tornado over the Hubbard designed B Lion. I knew Don and Patty McNair who were the B Lion builders. Too bad there weren't any pictures of Patty in her wet suit.

 

Lohring Miller

====================

I'll never be tired of this, Lohring-thanks for the effort!

I have "The Evolution of Modern Sailboat Design"(Meade Gougeon and Ty Knoy) and on page 160 it says:" Gougeon perfected downwind tacking in 1969 with his fourth trimaran, Victor T, which won the North American Multihull Championship that summer at Hamilton ,Ontario. At the One-of-a-Kind regatta at Chicago that fall he posted the fastest time around a set of marks ever recorded in the second race before having to quit the series because of structural failure."

--

Is that accurate as best you remember?

[Amati 1,523]

Was Woodwind a MacAlpine-Downey design? Sure looks like a big Shark catamaran. Which was a B class cat?

[Xlot 958]

Please let me know when you get tired of all this old stuff.

 

Not at all. Only, could you possibly FF for a moment to 1978 - I've been looking for a scan of that full-page color picture of our Miss Lancia on Sail magazine, would you have it by any chance?

[lohring 1]

My stuff only goes up to the beginning of the Patient Lady era. I once had more magazines, but they seem to be lost to the fog (mold?) of history. Just to prove I really was there during that era, here's a clip from the New York Times and some pictures of the resurrected Gamecock. Gamecock was a long way from the newer C class boats' performance, but I did beat Patient Lady I ( not a very impressive boat) in that very light air series. The last picture is the second time Gamecock's wing broke.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[Keith 987]

This is a great thread,

 

thank you, Lohring

[PIL66 - XL2 931]

Please let me know when you get tired of all this old stuff. It brings back a lot of lost memories. To back up a little, here's more from the 1966 and 1969 Yachting One-of-a-Kind (OOAK) Regattas, including more on Victor T. I was wrong in thinking it ever won, but it's performance impressed people at the time. In the light air of the 1966 first race it clearly won but was disqualified. Note also the rise of the catamaran between the two races. The older C cats were there in 1966 including Hellcat sailed by Van Allen Clark.

 

In 1969 the cats dominated. It's too bad times weren't listed, but Scimitar clearly won on corrected time and was second only to the D cat overall. It's also interesting to see the rise of the Tornado over the Hubbard designed B Lion. I knew Don and Patty McNair who were the B Lion builders. Too bad there weren't any pictures of Patty in her wet suit.

 

Lohring Miller

 

Are you serious...? this is the best thread for quite some time....Thanks to all contributing....brilliant

[lohring 1]

Let's back up again to the 1967 C Class world Championships held in Bermuda. That's where Gamecock broke her mast the first time. It also shows an obscure period in US C class design history. Newer Van Allen Clark boats were using a better hull design than Gamecock's (thanks Hubbards) but with a similar small wing mast. Lady Helmsman was there as a yardstick. The results were far from decisive despite the headline due to the conditions.

 

Lohring Miller

[lohring 1]

[Amati 1,523]

The mainsail was falling like hose letting go from a garter belt? And they sailed on.

 

(I paraphrase...)

 

 

Clean, you have been schooled!

 

Lohring, you are the man-

[Tornadosail2012 3]

That line just jumps out at you. For reporting, this guy also had some understanding of what was happening on the boats and on the course. I forgot that these early races and regattas got a fair amount of press.

The mainsail was falling like hose letting go from a garter belt? And they sailed on.

(I paraphrase...)

:lol:

Clean, you have been schooled!

Lohring, you are the man-

[Steve Clark 832]

Jack Knights was a yachting journalist when there actually were yachting journalists.

Bob Fisher is the last of his bred.

Jack used to write a regular column for Yachts and Yachting and features for other magazines.

Insightful, cynical, biting, funny, and irreverent in turn, he could walk into a shed where a 12 meter was being built pace around a bit and estimate her length displacement and sail area pretty accurately and comment on that relative to other 12s.

He loved to take he piss out of people.

He was also a pretty damn good boat driver and even dabbled in design.

Some designs were "interesting" others were absolutely horrid.

I had the pleasure to meet him in Kiel Germany in 1969 when he was sailing a Tempest with David Hunt.

He would fit right in here.

 

The tale of the Bermuda regatta was one of sailing in big winds and fairly flat seas.It was the last regatta my father sailed in the C Class. Dad said he and Salty ( Bill Saltonstall) had to yell at each other all the time to keep hammering because it was fucking frightening. He wore ski goggles because the spray was flying so hard he couldn't see without them. And these two were very accomplished big breeze sailors. He felt he was in a slug fest with Reg and was happy to get the best of it, probably because his rig was much less powerful. The C's of this era were pretty heavy and didn't "run away" from the puffs the way they do now, so when hit by a shot they loaded up and then loaded up some more. Main beams were 5"diameter 1/4" wall aluminum tubes and they broke! I think the main sheet was a 4:1 wire cascading to an 8:1 rope tail. The traveler was a 4" high I beam with a steel car on it that must have weighed 10 pounds. There is a picture somewhere of Dalliance reaching and you see the traveler bending one full height in between the supports. The insanity of the main sheet loads and the inability to pull the leech straight were the main drivers behind the wing development.

SHC

[Tornadosail2012 3]

Jack Knights was a yachting journalist when there actually were yachting journalists.

Bob Fisher is the last of his bred.

Jack used to write a regular column for Yachts and Yachting and features for other magazines.

Insightful, cynical, biting, funny, and irreverent in turn, he could walk into a shed where a 12 meter was being built pace around a bit and estimate her length displacement and sail area pretty accurately and comment on that relative to other 12s.

He loved to take he piss out of people.

He was also a pretty damn good boat driver and even dabbled in design.

Some designs were "interesting" others were absolutely horrid.

I had the pleasure to meet him in Kiel Germany in 1969 when he was sailing a Tempest with David Hunt.

He would fit right in here.

I definately got some of those feelings from reading the articles. Thanks for the other insights. I was wondering after seeing the traveler what the car was on it. I bet it did wiegh the ten pounds you state. They had to be some pretty wild boats to sail.

[Amati 1,523]

 

The tale of the Bermuda regatta was one of sailing in big winds and fairly flat seas.It was the last regatta my father sailed in the C Class. Dad said he and Salty ( Bill Saltonstall) had to yell at each other all the time to keep hammering because it was fucking frightening. He wore ski goggles because the spray was flying so hard he couldn't see without them. And these two were very accomplished big breeze sailors. He felt he was in a slug fest with Reg and was happy to get the best of it, probably because his rig was much less powerful. The C's of this era were pretty heavy and didn't "run away" from the puffs the way they do now, so when hit by a shot they loaded up and then loaded up some more. Main beams were 5"diameter 1/4" wall aluminum tubes and they broke! I think the main sheet was a 4:1 wire cascading to an 8:1 rope tail. The traveler was a 4" high I beam with a steel car on it that must have weighed 10 pounds. There is a picture somewhere of Dalliance reaching and you see the traveler bending one full height in between the supports. The insanity of the main sheet loads and the inability to pull the leech straight were the main drivers behind the wing development.

SHC

Fucking frightening? Fucking amazing!

 

<slight hijack alert>. So what would a D class look like, Steve, given the (what would seem almost non intuitive) development of the C class?

 

I have to say that your post really begs whether Conner's Stars and Stripes, especially and the current 72's look a bit more than insane. It really does explain the palpably crackling intensity (fear really) of the Stradivarious crew when she sailed by us on her 2nd sail in 5 knots (!) of breeze. They did not wave back. I'm thinking now it wasn't condescension.....

[lohring 1]

I'm glad all this history is still interesting. I love looking at the 2013 challenge thread to see how far the C's have come. Let's go back to the 1972 challenge and its lead up. First is the 1970 worlds at Roton Point where the US challenger was supposed to be selected. I don't have any pictures because I just started a new job and couldn't attend. My wife was there with her father, Bill Steane, who sailed the battered Gamecock with Dave Hubbard. The new Mountain Lion rig was not finished. The stories are in the New York Times articles below. I also found some actual score sheets. Below are ones from the first two races.

 

The importance of all this will become clear when I post the article on the actual 1972 race in Australia. It seems clear to me that the order of performance of the newer US cats was Scimitar, Yankee Flier, and Weathercock. The Australian Red Roo was a useful yardstick having just won the 1970 Little America's Cup race in Denmark. (My next job is correcting the Wikipedia page with this recently discovered information.) The best American boats, especially Scimitar, were faster. However, Scimitar's destruction resulted in the selection trial discussed at the beginning of the thread.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[lohring 1]

Now on to the actual 1972 race. I watched Chuck Millican out sail my father-in-law, especially in heavier air at the trials so I don't dispute his right to sail the challenger. I do disagree that he had the second fastest C cat in the world. See the results from above. The US pioneer of the wing mast, George Patterson, pretty much faded as a designer after that period, leaving the field to Dave Hubbard.

 

Lohring Miller

[Tornadosail2012 3]

Thanks for these wonderfull pieces of history. One can only hope that someone will give as good an account of the upcoming ICCCC as some of these articles did for those series. There will be some great story lines with all of the new boats and teams going up against the current holder Fred Eaton and Magnus and the ever present and always competitive Steve Clark and crew.

[Roy Mills 1]

I have found all of the foregoing to be of great interest, because unlike most of the other posters I only became "sort of interested" in the C class when, having started sailing at age 40, some 30+ years later I was given an old C Class platform, wooden construction from a group that raced C Class cats on English Bay, Vancouver in the 1980's but has long since faded away. Just sloop rig jobs so of no technical interest save perhaps one. Unlike the C class cats mentioned in the horrendous weather which had 5 inch diameter aluminum cross beams with a quarter inch wall thickness, this one had 4.5 inch diameter aluminum tubes with one eighth inch walls, and still does,traveller tapped on with #10 screws plus an adhesive, our summer winds are famously light here. The rig has been downsized to that of a Tornado and it is now primarily a day sailer in selected weather by an 80+ single hander. We need to get Cox Creek involved, he has a lot of info on the Australian boats, being a Kiwi. BTW, if you happen o have a copy of Marchaj's Aero and hydro dynamics of sailing there is a fair amount of info on the Lady Helmsman's rig development starting on P314. Bad language or abuse I never never use whatever the emergency. Savoyard.

[Steve Clark 832]

Savoyard:

The beams had to get big because the boats got heavier with the wing masts than they had been with sloop rigs.

All told a heavier catamaran is a more stable catamaran, and stability drives the rigging loads, so the beams that were strong enough for a sloop were not strong enough for a wing mast. Recall that some of these wing masts weighed more than our entire wings weigh today.

Is your boat a Hellcat or some other design?
I would love to see a picture and learn more.

SHC

[Roy Mills 1]

Steve, I have n idea of what design the hulls are, and I have been unable,so far, to get any info at all about the group that raced C class cats in English Bay. The chap who gave me the platform, several years after he had bought the boat for the rig for another partially completed boat he had bought, had forgotten the name of the original owner, remembering only that he had been a Doctor and sailed with his adult son. The boat, BTW was called "Wait Lady". Thank you for the point about heavy rigs leading to the need for stronger cross beams. If you can send me a PM with your email address I can send you some pictures of it, some on the trailer and some in the water with the rig up. Despite my personal pusillanimity I recognise that a subsequent owner will be younger and perhaps wish to compete along with crew, so the rig can cope with a larger main and jib, plus a flying head sail of some type so it sports an agressive looking bowsprit, currently untenanted. Just in case some racing does take place in its current format I registered her for a PHRF rating, which caused more than a little brow furrowing by the raters. Eventually they proposed, and I accepted, both tongue in cheek I think, a rating the same as for a Farrier F31, very handy because a friend living nearby has an F31AXP. Her current name is Rose Maybud.

[bobber 0]

Hello Savoyard, some of us would be very interested in seeing photos of your boat if you are amenable to posting them in this thread. Regards, Bob

[Fat Point Jack 168]

I went to the back corner of the back bedroom closet and they were still there. A stack of history waiting to be rediscovered. Any suggestions if I wanted to scan and catalog the collection?

 

[Tornadosail2012 3]

I would love to read through this article. I can see the issue that you are having. I do not know how to help you though. I have always sucked when it came to attaching items so that they would be able to be viewed in full size. Hope that you get this figured out.

[Fat Point Jack 168]

Go to http://upix.me/ click on sellect files ..multiple can be sellected from file on computer, click on family safe content then upload, after whatever speed/ time your connection supports the page will change to "thumbnail previews" and image codes- copy BB Board clickable thumbs complete = [ url /] image class scan etc no42 [ etc/ ] and paste into Sailing Anarchy reply box.

Can I use Photobucket?

[PL3 5]

Ten on the line...

 

http://s470.photobucket.com/user/pl3003/media/C%20Class/TenOnTheLine.png.html?sort=3&o=0

[PL3 5]

Beverly

 

http://s470.photobucket.com/user/pl3003/media/C%20Class/IMG_1194-1.jpg.html

 

clickey on pics below for more

[lohring 1]

The US started the C challenges in 1961, but didn't win until 1975. This is the story of that success.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[lohring 1]

[lohring 1]

[lohring 1]

The actual racing in Australia.

 

[lohring 1]

[lohring 1]

With some help from the C class web site I complied this history of American C class design.

 

Lohring Miller

 

Sloop rigs - Beverly

 

Early uni rigs - Sealion

 

The early wing masts - Gamecock

Daliance

 

The later wing masts - Yankee Flyer

Mountain Lion

 

The best of the wing masts - Scimitar

 

[lohring 1]

Along the way there were some good tries that weren't successful.

 

Patient Lady I

 

Mountain Lion's solid wing

 

Coyote

 

Weathercock (the mast style was outdated for the time)

[lohring 1]

The full wings.

 

Clark wing

 

Coyote

 

Patient Lady III

 

 

[lohring 1]

And finally there were the light weight uni rigged boats mostly from the west coast.

 

Patient Lady II

 

Beowulf

 

And the successful challenger - Aquarius

[lohring 1]

The full wing evolution started with simple flapped wings. They had good lift to drag for upwind sailing but lacked the high lift needed for the other points of sailing. The early wings (and wing masts) were also heavy. That allowed light soft sail boats to win up to Patient Lady IV. (Patient Lady III was perhaps as fast but it isn't clear to me) The last challenge where the soft sails won was 1976. As technology improved, the lighter wings came into their own. They were simpler and more important, had excellent twist control.

 

Now we have Bernard Smith's 40 knot sailboat sailing at 65 knots and the conservative America's Cup contended with 40 knot sailboats inspired by the C class. What will a foiling C cat at 1/3 the length but more than 1/2 the speed look like? Welcome to the future.

 

Lohring Miller

[Tornadosail2012 3]

thanks for the continual postings. Great to see some of this history cominng back out into the light.

[Tornadosail2012 3]

The full wings.

 

Clark wing lo res Clark Wing 2.jpg

 

Coyote Coyote 1975.jpg

 

Patient Lady III Patient-Lady IIIa.jpg

Did the Clark Wing ever sail? It looks like it was one of the higher aspect ratio masts of its' time.

[lohring 1]

 

The full wings.

 

Clark wing lo res Clark Wing 2.jpg

 

Coyote Coyote 1975.jpg

 

Patient Lady III Patient-Lady IIIa.jpg

Did the Clark Wing ever sail? It looks like it was one of the higher aspect ratio masts of its' time.

I believe it did sail for a short time. However, see post #10. Below is another view. the aspect ratio was similar to the other boats from that era. I was limited by the width of the shed when I took the pictures.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[Tornadosail2012 3]

I have PDF's of both Steve Skilling C-Class Analasys and The Cogito Project. Both files are too big to attach to this site. Steve Skilling is 4608KB and The Cogito Project is 2401KB. I will email to anyone who would like to read through both. They offer quite a wealth of materials as to the thinking and processes behind the development of The Cogito Project, the team, building and design and the other of how Steve Skilling analyzed Cogito Project, The C-Class and other materials and then developed the winning boat for Fredo, Blunted and team. All of the material is pretty inepth and some of it way above my comprehension. I know that this is more recent history than where this thread started but they are both important history to the C-Class. I wish I had some of the history of Pete Melvin's and Morreli & Melvin's attempt to win the cup in Australia. PM me if you want me to forward them. I will do my best to get them to you.

[Steve Clark 832]

I think the wing was 36' tall. It was freestanding in the bearing frame visible in the foreground.

You raised the wing by rotating the frame forward and plugging the wing in. Then oyou pulled the whole mess upright and pinned it in place,

The wing sailed about 3 times before it came to grief in a north west cold front. that also capsized a seaplane.

There was a fatal flaw in that the pivot axis was too far aft, and periodically the wing would refuse to ease when you let go the sheet.

This was fairly exciting, but got downright nasty.

The boat was tied up to a floating dock, and was sailing it all over hell. There were two of us on the outboard hull trying to add mass to the program. Bill Saltonstall was trying to keep everything from going pear shaped by man handling the wing around.

We didn't have enough bodies or a method of getting the thing down, so it was just a matter of time. We did brak one of the chains holding the float in place and did get the ramp into the water before the big puff crashed us.

At about this time a herd of Tabor students stopped by to see what was up on their way to sunday services or something.

They were the many hands that got the thing back into the shed.

SHC

[PL3 5]

http://vimeo.com/70809167

[MikeR 7]

Cogito is Latin for "I Think."

I would like to believe that "Thinking" is one of my core skills. Certainly I spend an awful lot of my time doing it.

The Cogito: I think therefore I am. is from Rene Descartes's "Discourse on Method" in which the philosopher attempts to construct reality from first principles. Unable to determine if there is any thing beyond his ability to perceive it, he is forced to conclude that the only evidence he has of his own existence is his own cognitive activity. Something that thinks must (to some extent) exist. It goes on from there, and with a few other block busters as well, ends up being the first philosophy that does not require the action of a deity to create the world as we know it.

Descartes was also responsible for a bunch of other pretty cool things that make the modern world so dynamic and attractive. A very cool dude, so not a bad guy to refer to in a boat name.

So the boat has a Latin name that references philosophy. The study of classics and philosophy probably never enhanced anyone's pay. It isn't something you study to get a great job and to get rich. But that does not mean that they are worthless and a waste of time. This pretty much fits with the mindset necessary to design, build and sail C Class Catamarans. It's hard work out of proportion with the size of the boat and the quality of the competition, but that does nothing to diminish the challenge and reward of the activity. You do it because you can. Or maybe because you can't not.

 

In other news, Doug, those are the panel expansions, not the lines.

Victor T was a really interesting boat, but her performance was very limited to light air and down wind where her relative lack of stability was not a problem. She was far more a monohull with training wheels than a modern trimaran. She could not, for example , ever fly the center hull. Adrenalin suffered from the same limitation. At some point power trumps efficiency, and the super wide french tri's that could fly two hulls simply overpowered this pleasant and slippery concept.

SHC

Was VictorT named after Victor Tchetchet?

 

Cheers,

 

MikeR

[Amati 1,523]

yup

[lohring 1]

This is a much better picture of Scimitar first posted here. It shows the boom inclosed in the double bottom of the sail. This allowed a much simpler camber, twist and sail angle control that predates those used on the full wings. The double ended hulls were another innovation. Otto realized that transom sterns had an aft movement of the center of buoyancy as the hull submerged, pushing the bow down. Previous hulls with fat bows (Gamecock) just aggravated the pitching caused my the large moment of inertia caused by heavy masts without stopping bow burying. Scimitar maintained the same fore and aft trim as the leeward hull was depressed.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[jorge 35]

 

[lohring 1]

More ancient C class information.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[lohring 1]

Next Pages

[lohring 1]

A few pictures of Mountain Lion, Bill Steane's rebuild of the Hubbards' Sea Lion.

 

[lohring 1]

Some more views of the wing. The idea was that the pressure would balloon out the lee side into a conventional airfoil shape. It didn't work, but the construction of very light aluminum ribs, tubes, and wire mounted on a turntable was interesting.

 

Lohring Miller

[lohring 1]

More wing pictures.

 

[lohring 1]

Under sail.

 

[lohring 1]

The Sealion hulls.

[lohring 1]

Soft sail uni rig.

 

[lohring 1]

Bill Steane with a half model (by me) of the final wing mast version.

 

 

Mountain Lion at the 1972 cup trials.

 

 

Lohring Miller

[lohring 1]

Finally the main reason for the end of my C class involvement.

 

Lohring Miller

 

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Thats great stuff, Lohring-thank you!